Phillies Nation

130 Responses to “Fish Gut Phils With Easy 3-0 Win”

1. Geoff Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

   well said. gutcheck time..playing this way they will lose this pirates series, just watch. i hope scott eyre helps.

2. danny Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

   Amen.

   I’m grateful for getting blacked out of these games vs the Marlins. I don’t think we’ll have any problem beating up the Pirates, but the Fish sure do own us.

   The fish haunt the heartless Phils’ dreams.

3. Don M Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

   This is the kinda sh!t I have a problem with ….. Ryan Howard today goes 0-4, makes an error.. and Eric Bruntlett gets the Steve Jeltz Award..?? Who even cares that Bruntlett doesn’t get hits…the other night he was one of the players of the game.. today he goes 0-3 and gets the garbage award..? I just don’t get it.

   Its time to stop ragging on the players that hit below #5 in the order, and start getting on the top of the lineup for not producing. Chase Utley hasn’t done dick at the plate in about two months.. Victorino was swipping bags like crazy earlier in the year, but now seems hesitant on the basepaths.. Rollins needs a day or two of sitting and watching… Howard and Burrell are the feast or famine types and prove how badly this team misses a .300+ hitter (screw homeruns, I want a guy that can just hit the ball) You guys still think Manny Ramirez wouldn’t be a great addition to this lineup.. could’ve used his bat today!

   I’m all for bashing the regulars for not putting the ball in play, they were supposed to be winning games based on out-scoring them this season, now they get 4 runs and hang on, praying the the bullpen can hold it down again.

   Here’s to hoping they sweep the Pirates this weekend and get themselves back on track!!

4. Geoff Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

   im going saturday: brett myers vs ian snell

5. Phil Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

   Stop blaming the offense guys. They do not lose us games. Cole Hamels does. Ask Scot.

6. JJ23 Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

   I agree and think Manny is exactly what this team needs, I think he would do for Howard what he did for LIL PAPI. I would bet that Howard would become close to a .300 hitter or at least a respectable .280, He is that guy that can pick the team up when they are struggling and when things are going well for him thats going to give every1 better pitches, I know theres nothing they can do now, but in the off-season if theres WS apperance for the Phillys they better look to empty some pockets out for MR.MANNY

7. Phil Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

   They’ll win Saturday, Geoff. Snell is worse than Eaton.

8. Geoff Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

   i looked deeper into eyre. he might actually be ok. they just need more in the pen still…

9. JJ23 Says:
   August 7th, 2008 at 10:21 pm

   How does an offense not lose you a game when u score 0???? please explain that one

10. Geoff Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    well youll get to see manny soon enough there man. ill be oging to that series too. hell go deep at least 3 times that weekend

11. Phil Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    Ask Scot. He expects Hamels to have a sub 1 ERA or some shit. If Hamels loses because of lack of run support it’s Hamels fault, not the offense.

12. Don M Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    haha… he was being sarcastic.. Hamels looked good today, but when he gets tired his freakin changeup stays all the way up around the LETTERS.. and they rake it

13. JJ23 Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    Hey Geoff, thanks for all your help earlier too, We are so excited to be going. We are sitting in that HARRY the K’s section of the park

14. Phil Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    Oh yeah Tim, I totally disagree with you about Pat the Bat. He’s been the most consistent guy in that line up all season. Honorable mention to Shane Victorino.

15. Geoff Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    werd

16. Geoff Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    i chill in the seats for half the game then i watch an inning or two from ashburn alley then i go back to the seats.

17. JJ23 Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    werd??????

18. Geoff Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    harry the ks is a good place = werd

19. JJ23 Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    O so u can go to ashburn alley at any time?? Thats where the pens are right???

20. JJ23 Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    didnt know if that was to me

21. Geoff Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    yeah ashburn alley is like THE most crowded part of the ballpark. everyone hangs out there

22. Don M Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    Hamels 9-8 record is a prime example of how WINS for a pitcher are the most meaningless stat… look at the numbers for Hamels and Kendrick.. its BS

23. JJ23 Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    ya it looks it…ooks fun as hellll

24. JJ23 Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    Can u walk in and out of HArry the K’s and to ur seat???

25. Don M Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    when I’m there.. my pants are usually THE most crowded place in the park.. pants party… there’s a party in my pants = werd. Fa Sho.

26. Lewisauce Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    Anyone else think the end of this season is predictable and inevitable?

27. Tim Malcolm Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    Burrell has been consistent in that he hasn’t had any slumps, but his extra base hits are coming a little bit less lately. I’d still love to see the regular lineup of Utley-Burrell-Howard.

28. Kyle Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    Sure, the extra base hits aren’t coming as much, but that’s because he’s been WALKING so much. His obp is a quarter higher than anyone else. And I wonder why he’s being walked? It couldn’t be because Geoff 280 OBP Jenkis hits behind him, could it?

    I am with whoever wrote it: start putting your best everyday line-up out there, and that lineup must include Jayson Werth. Please. Charlie. Do. IT. And now more benching Burrell late. If anything, start taking out Ryan Howard for a late-inning defensive replacement.

29. Gavin Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    Jimmy Rollins doesnt give a shit about this team. he got his MVP award and now when he goes to bat pitchers are supposed to lay down. I’m sick and tired of this team, their effort, their managments philosophy and their overall approach.

    The Phils will finish in 3rd and I know what “JRoll” will say…. “Oh well.”

30. Greg V. Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    I tell you what, not only do I not think we’ll make the play offs, I’m starting to wonder if we’ll even have a winning season! What say you, Nostra-Rollins?

31. Kyle Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 11:32 pm

    Come on, they will be fine. I think it will play out until the final week of the season, but their run differential suggests they will be in the fight til the finish. You really think they’ll finish 3rd – REALLY?

32. Geoff Says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    how about, keep pulling your most consistently clutch late game hitter, pat burrell, for so taguchi so burrell cant try and get a cluthc hit late in the game. why dont you do that a few more times. thats cost us like 7 games already this year.

33. adam Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:10 am

    Charlie does nothing to produce runs, i.e. small ball

34. Bruce Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:14 am

    Tim says… “I’d still love to see the regular lineup of Utley-Burrell-Howard.” You mean a NEW lineup? (chuckle)

    In batting fourth, Howard is your most productive hitter with 97 RBIs and the best clutch hitter on the team with RISP (.321 BA).

35. Tim Malcolm Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:22 am

    Bruce: Should have said “a regular lineup.” Hey, I know Howard is your most productive hitter and best clutch hitter, but with Burrell’s OBP, why not give Howard more chances to drive in runs?

36. nick Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 1:18 am

    if you can’t win a series against your division rival (using pitchers not even proven yet), you can not win a playoff series. They look like garbage right now.

37. Pete Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 1:21 am

    Good Lord…Pat Burrell has been the ONLY consistent player this team has had, let’s throw him under the bus. Jenkins? Yeah, he sucks. But taking shots at Bruntlett and Ruiz? Bruntlett has been huge for the team this year just based on where he can fill in. He’s also had his share of clutch hits. Do you really expect your bench-guy utility infielder to bat .300? Ruiz has been trashed on here all year…he’s not hitting worth crap, but his defense makes up for it in spades. Aside from which, who’s going to start in his place? Coste admits he can’t play every day. Jaramillo is a shitty hitter, too. Marson is in AA and hasn’t handled any of our starters…you really want to throw him in there in the middle of a pennant race and hope he hits .340?

    The biggest problem right now is Rollins. Geoff – call Gillick and get a trade done right now. Rollins’ utter failure to get on base just kills this team. BTW, trading for Eyre is a solid move – his ERA is a mirage based on one crappy relief inning. The guy is a solid pitcher and will help us out, plus we gave nothing to get him.

38. Bear Mike Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:31 am

    I was at the game yesterday (#17). Jimmy Rollins :^( What a difference between last August and this August. Last year, the maniac chants of M-V-P deafend the stadium. And this year…..Ho Hum….who cares is in the air when Jimmy comes up to the plate. What a stark difference. I heard so many derrogatory comments about Jimmy yesterday. When he came up to the plate for the last at bat, everyone around me was like “F-ing great. Jimmy F-ing Rollins…….game over.” I don’t have a clue what is wrong with Jimmy but I hope he gets over it soon. I think that MVP was the kiss of death for him. It’s almost like he feels entitled. I don’t get it.

39. Fred Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:42 am

    Probably the most frustrating thing to me is this team’s lack of enthusiasm although a lack of basic fundamentals is a close second. This team has the personality of a dead fish. As a fan, it seems to me this is a team with a bunch of fat cats – everyone (at least our big guns) content with making their millions.

    Rollins talking his usual bull, Utley with his sour demeanor, Howard still striking out on the low and away stuff. These guys appear to be walking around with some sort of a chip on their shoulder expecting the rest of the league to be awe.

    These guys have been pampered their entire life and don’t fully understand how fortunate they are to be playing ball for a living and making millions. Perhaps if hey would step into the average working stiff’s life for a day their attitude would change.

    The Bruntletts, Ruizs and Jenkins of this team are not to be blamed so much. They are as advertised – average ball players. It’s the so-called stars of this team that need to step up. If things continue status quo, 3rd place is a very real possibility.

40. NJ Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:44 am

    The problem right now is the it’ll come around attitude, playing with too much intensity and pressing is one thing but there’s no fire from the veterans. I have no problem not trashing the team when they get outright beaten but very rarely is that happening. When you get decent pitching you’ve got to take 2 out of three of those well pitched games, how many times have Cole or Jamie or Kyle gone out there and turned in a start the offense should have put up enough runs to win and taken the loss or no decision?

    Why throw Lidge out there down 3-0 in the 9th? It’s very simple, Charlie has done well here but he’s bought into playing for the late inning longball explosion. The game was done, pitch a guy like Happ or Walrond and see how they respond which has had a positive response with Condrey. Lidge didn’t need to pitch that inning to impact the win or loss and that’s not how our elite reliver should be used.

    Pure and simple we are not making our opponents work hard for their wins but their making us work hard for our losses.

    (Be wary of Marson being brought up for next year, look at Towes in Houston who was meant to come up and rip up the bigs and was sent back down hitting around .150)

41. Mike T. Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:50 am

    so finally everyone agrees this isn’t a good baseball team. it’s about time.

42. gopher balls Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:50 am

    I’m attempting to trade for Jimmy Rollins in my fantasy league (in excahnge for Carlos Guillen and Javy Vazquez). Should I pull the plug?

43. Mike T. Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:53 am

    yes absolutely you should. j-roll is dunzo.

44. Mike T. Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:54 am

    trade him asap for anyone that’s dumb enough to give you decent players. j-roll STINKS.

45. NJ Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:57 am

    I’m holding onto Rollin’s in a points league but in a roto make the deal, short-term he’s hurting anyone and his only value is he will hit some more home runs and get some steals at some point.

46. Jim D. Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 8:10 am

    at what point does someone hold the coaching staff responsible
    i mean milt tompson a carear 265 hitter give me a break

47. Rick Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 8:15 am

    So Geoff, we haven’t heard any new J-Roll trade ideas from you lately? I think today is as good of a day as any to throw one out there (and J-Roll for a bag of balls doesn’t count).

    Rollins at this point in the first inning is a guaranteed out. The Phillies are starting the first inning of every game with an automatic out. And then if they’ve had no baserunners by the 3rd inning, it’s almost always a guaranteed 1-2-3 inning with 7, 8, and 9 hitting.

    So right there, they’re going to be no-hit through the first 3 innings in almost every game.

    I’d be curious to know how many games the Phillies have been no-hit this year through the first 3 innings.

48. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Rollins was only on base 8-of-15 times in this series (4 hits, 4 walks)….

    Definitely trade him…

49. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    Tim, the problem with Howard hitting behind Burrell is that they would walk him every single time… Burrell isn’t as “dangerous” as Howard, so he see’s more good pitches.

    If you go Burrell, Howard, …Jenkins or Werth or whoever.. Howard’s RBIs go way down, not up

50. AF Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:01 am

    if rollins finishes the season like this i say trade him in the off season for a matt holliday and fuentes combo or something like that. i dont like his attitude this year. he looks content with just being a defending nl mvp. like he deserves to be titled the leader of this team without actually leading on or off the field. i dont like hearing that many times he drives to the game while everyone else takes the team bus. thats not a leader. he looks like he doesnt care. hes a good player with great talent but his play and attitude are inconsistent and you can get some great talent for him. i say hes expendable in the off season at the pace hes on.

51. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:11 am

    Thats the most accurate trade idea ive ever heard about rollins, mike: trade him to anyone dumb enough to give you good players for him while his career declines as it is doing and will continue to do. i dont think hell ever come close to his mvp season again, like not even remotely close.

    somebody gives you a good deal that improves the team now or for the near future? ill do it. no specific people, just, tahts the framework. if it improves the team, ill do it.

    im even keeping howard for his whole time under team control. id keep burrell because in this market you cant get anyone better than him. shortstops are dime a dozen in modern day baseball because its a hyped position and there are LOTS of good, young shortstops both in our system and in other teams systems. you can easily replace rollins. if donald cant do it, then you deal with it for 2 years uintil freddy galvis is ready.

    jimmy rollins is definitely never, EVER going to be half as good as he was last year. if youre a smart GM. you see that and take care of it.

52. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:12 am

    too late. cant get matt holliday for rollins. have to trade him for young mlb players or prospects

53. danny Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:15 am

    Rollins bat over .290 for every month last season except May.

    It’s obvious that he’s the problem this year. Everything else is practically the same, if not better, right? (Sans Ruiz)

    Rollins had a career year last year and it carried us into the playoffs. If he hits like that this year, what are we? Like 20 games over .500?

    But this is the real Jimmy Rollins.

54. mg52 Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:19 am

    Maybe it is time that Victorino hits leadoff. Since Rollins has been expected to show more leadership and fire, a demotion in the line-up might tune him up mentally. I have looked at teams like the Marlins and seen all the players trying to prove something in every at-bat and every fielding opportunity. They play as if they are one pitch away from elimination: with authority, conviction, guts and urgency…because that is all that is left when backs are to wall. Somehow, such teams still manage to have fun. As was said above, only in Philly do we hear, “Oh well.”
    This team struggles with offspeed and breaking pitches, so it should be good at smacking fastballs. The problem is, they take those fastballs early in the count, exposing themselves to the pitches that induce poor or no contact. Again, how many more times can the offensive struggles be attributed to good pitching on the other end?

55. Rick Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    How many of the three games did Rollins lead-off the first inning by getting on base? Just curious?

    BTW – I’m not an advocate of trading J-Roll. I do find Geoff’s trade proposals entertaining, though. When Jimmy scores, the Phils win and that’s the bottom line! He’s an integral part of the team, but he’s not a leadoff hitter.

    That being said, I do think he has an attitude problem this year and I do think he needs to get his act together. He’s supposed to be the outspoken leader of this team and this year he just hasn’t been the leading. He has been outspoken!

56. danny Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:21 am

    You just don’t win a division “going away” with a leadoff hitter sporting a sub .800 OPS.

57. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:22 am

    i will be supportive of shane leading off. its his turn to be allowed to lead this lineup. jimmy has failed this time.

58. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    I like how, usually slary dump waiver-deals are made with no compensation. bradford, livan were both moved for nothing.

    but the cubs KNEW they could scam a prospect out of us for this trash.

59. danny Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    I agree with all of the lineup changes we propose son here.

    Who would argue against this lineup? (other than Charlie)

    Victorino
    Rollins
    Utley
    Burrell
    Howard

    Or put Werth 2 and Rollins 6.

60. Rick Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Seriously, I’m to the point where I would just like them all to go out there and swing at the first pitch fastball until either a) the pitcher stops throwing it because they are hitting HRs or b) until the pitcher has a complete-game no-hit shutout.

    I mean what’s the difference in a game like yesterday’s?

    How many crushable 1st pitch fastballs did Voltron throw?

61. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    the phillies are told to stare at first pitch meatballs. they ALL do it except hamels. who actually knows how to hit better than jimmy rollins does half the time

62. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    I don’t know how many times he got on base in the 1st at-bat.. I’m guessing none?

    BUT… he was on base more than half of the time he came to the plate in this series… He can’t make himself get driven in by Utley and Howard..

    He does as good a job as anyone in baseball at stealing bases and trying to get himself into scoring position.. You guys all complaining that he wasn’t on base at all need to look at the games… I could see if he was the reason they lost, you could bitch about him.. but he wasn’t the reason they lost.. in fact.. he helped give them a chance to win.

63. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Geoff.. somebody made a point in the other post.. if you are a 21 year old prospect.. and you pitch in the bullpen at A-ball.. and you aren’t in the top-30 in your own organization… how valuable can you be??

    Thats not worth grabbing another experienced Lefty for your team??

64. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:30 am

    its awfully nice of jimmy. he shown up for about 12 games all year. seriously

65. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:32 am

    its worth it for nothing. but the cubs know were stupid so they made up give a prospect.

    look at some other waiver-guys who are salary dumps, which is what eyre is to the cubs, theyre usually traded for nothing.

66. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Eyre is making $1.15 M …. its not like he’s making $10M or has some crazy contract like Livan Hernandez.. who the Rockies got for nothing because he’s still owed $5 million this year

    Rays traded a player to be named for Bradford.. who is due $1.05 M this year, and $3.5 M next year..

67. Rick Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    I really don’t know how many times he got on base in the first inning, but I’d venture to guess it was probably 0-3.

    I’ll definitely give you that he is hardly the reason they lost. He actually hit well the first two games. But he also isn’t doing them any favors by making the first out in every game.

    He just needs to step up! Only Jimmy can spark this team, and the only way he can do that is to go out there the next 2 months and hit the cover off the ball. He needs to bat about .400 the next two months to give this team that spark!

    He’s the only player in the order capable of hitting .300 or better. When he’s on base good things typically happen.

68. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    right, and we traded a relief prospect for scrap.

69. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    i hope eyre does well, if he does ill be happy. i just dont buy it yet.

70. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:09 am

    The fact that you call that kid a relief prospect is a joke… this was the scouting report on him heading into the draft:

    16.19 Brian Schlitter, RHP (College of Charleston)

    Teammates Oliver Marmol and Brian Schlitter are also considered eighth- to 12th-round talents. Schlitter has a power arm (he touched 93 mph this season) but he’s inconsistent, with fringy secondary stuff and a poor delivery.

    I can’t believe we gave him up for an experienced Lefty reliever to strengthen our bullpen down the stretch!! GILLICK WAS ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL WHEN HE MADE THIS MOVE !!!

71. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    if scott eyre gets one person out in a big game with the division on the line, they ill say it was a decent move.

72. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    of course they still have to win the division. if they dont win the division: automatic terrible move

73. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:23 am

    giving up nothing for a guy that may or may not help.. can’t be considered a terrible move unless this guy personally makes us lose games.

    he is like the 5th guy in the bullpen now.. not really something worth getting worked up about

74. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    go get me huston street. if he falls to us ill be satisfied with the pitching side of the equation given the circumstances left to us. go do that, please.

    then go get someone that can hit a baseball.

75. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    some of these guys, like jimmy, couldnt hit a beach ball with a tennis racket right now. im totally serious. theyre that screwed up in the head.

76. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Jimmy was 4-11 in the series and got on base 8 times in 15 plate apperances…

    How is this such an issue today? This all goes back to people ragging on a guy and hoping he screws up and they can say they were right.

    Has Rollins been a shell of what he was last year? Yes..

    But, would you still want him over most of the other SS in baseball? Yes.

    If a guy does something specific to cost you a game, or goes 0-for 15 in a series… rip him… but when your leadoff man is on base more than half the time in a crucial series (.364 batting avg. .533 OBP%), and plays great defense.. . its not justified to burry him

77. Doug Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    How about a lineup where Rollins hits 8th? If we get one hit in the first two innings (a likely scenario), that means he leads off the 3rd.

    Who wouldn’t like to see a scenario where Rollins gets on and is either sacrificed down to 2nd or steals second and is sacrificed over to 3rd. Either way, we have Rollins in scoring position with the top of our lineup coming to the plate and 1 out.

    That way, it makes more sense to shift power to earlier in the lineup too. Something like Victorino, Utley, Burrell, Howard, Werth as the 1-5 guys.

78. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    We should also have Howard hit 7th… this way.. if the top of the order goes down 1-2-3 in the 1st inning.. and the 4-5-6 hitters all get on base in the 2nd inning… we’ll have Howard hitting cleanup in that spot!!!

    You’d rather have Jayson Werth getting extra at-bats over Jimmy Rollins, why?

79. Bruce Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    To Mike T ~ it seems from the first day of the season you’ve been down on the Phillies. What that suggests is what you don’t want to read so I’ll be kind and merely correct your daily proclamation. The first place and defending division champions, Phillies are a good and talented team struggling/underachieving. It is fortunate that other contenders in their division shared the same kind of problems. The injuries overwhelmed Atlanta’s chances and bowed out of the race. The Phillies are more fortunate (not having lost a starter to the DL). The Mets have shown perseverence with talent and determination despite their rash of injuries (Maine, Wagner, Church, etc.) Like other contenders (Mets & Marlins), the Phillies obviously have a need for improvements in key areas (rotation, bullpen and bench). It’s August and with the exception of waiver wire and September callups, the Phillies will contend with the hand they’re dealt with for the remaining 48 games. The recent quality starts by Myers and Blanton hopefully will stabilize the rotation. The bullpen has probably been the most pleasant surprise this season and solidified by a premier closer in Lidge (one of Gillick’s best aquisition). Minor tweaks with mix and match (by “committee”) for setup man is probable solution in the bullpen. The bench obviously leaves more to desire but we are not the only contender with that problem. Having Werth, Dobbs, Bruntlett, Coste waiting on the bench is not exactly chopped liver (chuckle). You could do worst and certainly no sense of urgency for additional help is shown by the Phillies.

    It’s redundant to rationalize Rollins’ season compared to his 2007 MVP year. 2007 is no doubt his career year and can’t be duplicated. His current numbers suggest his performance is more true to his career stats. If only Rollins can come close to his play of last season as the key offensive catalyst (and in effect, improves situational hitting), the Phillies’ task of repeating as division champions could be far less difficult. If Rollins can step up, it can have a ripple effect throughout the lineup starting with Victorino and Utley. That’s what made last September so SPECIAL.

    Let’s go PHILLIES!

80. Doug Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Rollins is hitting pretty terribly. His BA is .002 higher than Werth, but Werth’s OBP and Slugging % are higher.

    I like the idea of not wasting the pitcher’s spot. I like the idea of shaking up the lineup, and if Rollins really has his head up his ass like everybody is insinuating, hitting 8th should be the trick to make him realize he needs to make a change.

    I realize having Rollins in the 8-spot is unconventional, but this team needs something unconventional to light a fire under them. It’s not a playoff lineup, but it could manufacture some runs.

81. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    I like where you’re coming from doug, but I don’t think you put a guy with as much talent as Jimmy Rollins in the 8-hole.. OBP is good, but Werth is not as good a baserunner, or basestealer as Rollins.. Slugging% for a guy like Rollins shouldn’t even be mentioned since he’s5′8 and 112 lbs.

    He overperformed last year.. and in doing so, carried this team on his back to the NL East crown.. Now that he isn’t overperforming again, people are calling for his head.

    Im sure that he is frustrated with his lower numbers, and that is probably the reason for his poor body language.. but as long as he keeps playing solid defense, and getting himself on base in big games.. I still want him on my team, and I’d still rather have him with extra chances to make something happen than Jayson Werth.

    Werth COULD be a good leadoff man.. because he takes a lot of pitches.. but the object isn’t to take pitches, its to try to make something happen.

    People were jumping on Greg Dobbs lately for swinging at the first pitch.. we’ll if your job is to go hit the ball, and the first pitch is often a fastball.. why not jump at it if you like it… it is usually the only time in the count where you know what you might get.. unless the count goes 3-1 or something, but if you’re job is to pinch-HIT.. you go looking to hit, not to pinch-SEE A BUNCH OF PITCHES

82. Rob Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    But seriously… bad call on Bruntlett getting the Jeltz. The Bench guys are the least of our worries right now.

83. Rob Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Hit Rollins 9th, hit the pitcher 8th. Leadoff Vic

    1Vic
    2Werth
    3Utley
    4Burrell
    5Howard
    6?
    7?
    8Pitcher
    9Rollins

    Double leadoff BOOM!

84. Rob Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    I actually think this to be a feasible solution.

85. Doug Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    This is the Tony LaRussa strategy. It only works if you want to give more at-bats to your pitcher than your #9 hitter (never) or if you’re willing to pull your pitcher preemptively should his at-bat arise in a situation that warrants a double-switch.

    Otherwise, you’re just giving more at-bats to your pitcher than your supposedly good hitters. Although, the way Hamels is hitting in comparison to the rest of this team, we might want to consider him in the cleanup spot!

86. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    yeah, see lineups are supposed to be fluid. if players dont perform, they get lowered in the lineup or benched. charlie hasnt done nearly enough of that.

87. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Are people REALLY sitting here today and thinking that a team with a 62-52 record is going to start batting their pitcher #8 ??

88. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    WHO THE FLUCK would hit the guys that normally bat #s 6, 7, and 8 OVER Jimmy Rollins…

89. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    because jimmy rollins isnt jimmy rollins anymore. i wouldnt do taht either thuogh. i would hit him 6th or 7th depending on ho whes playing. i might hit himi 9th 4 or 5 times though to humiliate and punish him for being an asshole.

90. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    It’s not like he’s hitting .200… never getting on base….never scoring runs….never stealing bases… never making great plays on defense.

    He’s not having the year he did last year… Chase Utley isn’t having the kind of year we thought he would after the first two months. Should be bat him 7th???

91. Rob Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    By the way, this is not the Tony La Russa method, he’s just the only guy with balls enough to do it (good or bad that’s up to you) and it’s not like it’s unheard of in the majors. How often are pitchers hitting in the 6th 7th 8th 9th innings anyway? Not often and if they are, chances are you have a lead.

92. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    charlie is WAY too stubborn

93. Rob Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    I mean, obviously I wouldn’t do this permanently, but if (as I’ve been reading all day) a message needs to be sent to spark J Roll and perhaps get him going, this wouldn’t be that stupid because you’d still have him in line with the heart of their order and would give him both the opportunity to start and cleanup rallys.

94. Rob Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    And ya, exactly Geoff, why not try something like this when Hamels pitches? He’s clearly a good hitting pitcher and is NO worse than fricken Ruiz or Jenkins considering he has the capability of ummm a base hit. If I were a manager, I consider this the perfect mix of players to give a lineup like that a shot.

95. NJ Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    The aim of hitting your pitcher 8th is to get another guy potentially on base in front of your 3 hitter if the pitcher can handle the bat, remember the Brewers tried it and abandoned it because their pitchers couldn’t hit. Who would we bat 9th who can be that extra lead-off guy? (considering he has to be able to run as well)

96. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    J-roll is perfmorming so badly that batting him 9th 3 or 4 times wouldnt be such a bad idea.

97. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Again..

    Jimmy was 4-11 in the series and got on base 8 times in 15 plate apperances…

    If a guy does something specific to cost you a game, or goes 0-for 15 in a series… rip him… but when your leadoff man is on base more than half the time in a crucial series (.364 batting avg. .533 OBP%), and plays great defense.. . its not justified to burry him

98. Geoff Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    again, he sucks this year. he had his one year of superstardom, now hell decline the rest of the way. move him before that cheap contract becomes a bad contract. like, THIS offseason.

99. Don M Says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    Man when you guys get the wheels in motion on a bad idea.. you really have a tough time stopping…

100. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

     but its a good idea if you can improve your team in the offseason, you have to explore as many possible avenues as you can.

101. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

     Geoff, you have to be THE least intelligent Phillies fan I know… should we move EVERY player the year after the have their best season, since they will never live up that again??

     Howard had a pretty good year in 2006.. hasn’t lived up to it since… we better trade him ASAP…

     Utley had a great 1st half, but he sucks this second-half, he had his one half of superstardom, now he’ll decline the rest of the way. move him before that cheap contract become a bad contract.

102. NJ Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

     Our only really option past Vic would be Werth and that leaves a lot of slush behind Burrell and that’s where we’re getting a fair few men on base…

103. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

     no, obviously not don. but im going to trot out the cliche’d term clubhouse cancer and failed leader, and im going to also PREDICT that he will never even come close to being that good again. if im wrong, so be it. but i really see that attitude and approach from him. hes a fucking asshole.

104. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

     i was in favor of keeping TO because at least TO went out and performed on the field

105. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

     howard and utley can stay….no problems with them unless we sign mark texeira

106. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

     Don I’m not ripping him. What did I ever say that implied that I wanted J Roll’s head. He’s one of the most versatile players on the team and the only guy you can really move around in the lineup, save Vic, but he’s found his niche. How many years have people said “Rollins is not a leadoff man!” and just because he had a great year out of the leadoff spot suddenly the fact that he’s really not a great leadoff hitter gets overshadowed. He’s performing basically the way he always has and all I’m saying is shake things up. Move him around. Try something different, because as I can show you, the Phillies really do not change their lineup all that much due to the lack of versatility from the rest of the squad. See this article from mailbag on phillies.com

     http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080728&content_id=3213171&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi

107. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

     There is more to performing on the field than his hitting this year, which again.. really isn’t that bad .266 with 8 HR, 40 RBIs, 50 runs and 27 stolen bases in only 90 games..

     the times when he’s ON THE FIELD the most.. on defense… he’s awesome. but for some reason that doesn’t matter… people are more concerned with Rollins not hitting the cover off the ball in the 1-hole, then they are about Utley not being able to hit water if he fell out of a boat lately

108. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

     actually, you know what? if he has another few really bad games…we might as well just get it over with and PLACE HIM ON WAIVERS. maybe we could get a decent AA prospect and a few SHITTY prospects for him.

109. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:35 pm

     we should especially trade him to a contender, preferably the diamondbacks..why not? i mean, how bad can it be? they might not play them again anyway because the phils are doing their best to NOT make the playoffs.

110. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

     Without reading the article.. I’m fine with moving guys around in the order… if it makes sense… I’ve said repeatedly that I’d like to see the lefties broken up with Burrell… BUT… when people start calling out Rollins TODAY for not getting on base (again on 8 times of 15 plate appearances vs marlins) and people are saying how he should hit 9th and stuff.. its retarded.. and I think more and more people start actually believing what they say in a rant is a good idea. its scary.

111. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

     yo Don, you know Utley has something like a 12 game hitting streak right?

112. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

     I mean, I’ll repeat, I’m not calling for the guys head or anything nor have I said anything about his performance being exceptionally sucky. The idea I had is simply an idea and frankly, it’s really not a bad idea especially if you try it with a pitcher that has a handy bat. I want Jimmy to be on this team and I want him to succeed. His numbers aren’t terrible, but he just doesn’t seem the same. Statistics are like bikini’s they show a lot but not everything do I even need to use the Piniella-ism? And I think a lot of us would agree, a lot of things about Jimmy have changed and it ain’t just his stats. For all we know he’s probs just homesick and wants to get traded to back to the West Coast. Is that such a crazy thought?

113. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

     yea Obviously Utley is the best hitter on the Phillies.. and if you had a chance with anyone at the plate, in any situation, you would want it to be Utley… he’s filthy!!

     BUT… when we lose games, the fact that people jump on Rollins, Bruntlett, Carlos Ruiz, etc… instead of Utley, Howard, Burrell is a joke..

     Utley plays hard, always… THAT is the one knock I have against Rollins this year, is that he still isn’t running balls out all the time. I’m all for sitting him for a game or two (as I’ve said before).. but to suggest they trade him or bat him 9th?? is retarded

114. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:43 pm

     we should trade him to the A’s for huston street. if they both clear waivers maybe we can get something done there.

115. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

     no don not trade, waive as in waive goodbye to philadelphia

116. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

     of course im not actually serious that they should really waive him, although that would be hilarious. but i do want thtem to get huston street if he makes it to them.

117. Geoff Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

     in baseball you usually need to have one bad season and start off the next year really badly and then theyll get traded.

118. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

     The more I think about it, the more I think Jimmy actually wants to be traded and will come out after this season if/when they struggle to make the playoffs and get bounced first round. I’ll go out on a limb and make that prediction, though I’d hate to see it happen.

119. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

     I was the one that threw out that Pinella-ism… I understand it completely… but my whole point is that he is not performing as well as last year… fine.. but he’s not THE problem when this team loses.. if anything.. he really helped them in this series, both by getting on base, and by playing solid defense.

     Its become like uncool to still believe that Rollins is an asset to this team. The popular belief is that Rollins is an ass…. which is fine… but he is still one of the best shortstops in baseball.. he still helps your team win ballgames. No need for the daily BS about trying to trade him, or drop him below the freakin pitcher in the batting order!

120. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

     I mean call me retarded Don, but being so conservative about the game isn’t going to ever get you a WS.

121. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

     And Tony La Russa won a world series being a big ol’ retard and hitting his pitcher 8th.

122. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

     now im lost… who/what is being so conservative?

     Rollins hits better RH than he does LH… maybe tonight he throws together 2-3 hits and scores a pair against the lefty Maholm!

123. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

     K Don I guess your right. I won’t make any more retarded posts because I know I’ll have you to put me in my place.

124. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

     http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN200610270.shtml

     … in the World Series games at home, with no DH… he had the pitcher batting 9th.. …where all pitchers should bat…

125. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

     ROb.. im usually debating Geoff on stuff… not sure where or why you think im going after you..

     but im leaving work.. ask me whatever you want.. ill get back to you when i get home..

126. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

     Don, like I said, I really don’t care anymore, you’ve taken all of the fun out of it.

127. Rob Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

     and Don, like OBVIOUSLY you wouldn’t do such a thing in the WS of all places but I still see no reason why it would be so retarded to try something different. I’m not saying trade the guy or anything, I’m just saying move him around in the lineup.

128. Doug Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

     I originally brought up the idea of Rollins hitting 9th as a way to shake up the lineup in the short-term. …not a long-term solution. That way, he’d get the impetus to get his head and butt in gear yet you’d still have him essentially leading off the order each time through the lineup after the 1st.

     It was a thought to shake things up. When it comes down to it, no “shaking up” the lineup will do any good if guys don’t start hitting consistently. The hope would be that a shakeup might get guys hitting.

     …and if you thought this started a solid debate, how about the following idea, “Ryan Howard should occasionally lay down a hard bunt/slash bunt down the 3rd base line with no outs when they put that ridiculous shift on.” No way could the 3B get the whole way over to 3rd from the SS position to field a bunt and throw him out….even with Howard’s lack of speed. Debate!

129. Doug Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

     If third basemen were forced to play Howard honest, I guarantee his average would increase.

130. Don M Says:
     August 8th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

     Rob… i agreed like 15 times with a lineup change or two.. just not putting your regular leadoff hitter, and one of your most dangerous players in the 9-hole.

     AND.. If the pitcher batting 8th, and all that crazy nonsense works.. why wouldn’t you use it in the World Series.. they are most important games. Seriously, if that was SUCH a great strategy you would definitely use it all the time… like i said before, I think its an example of LaRussa outsmarting himself.

     If not wanting to bat Rollins 9th..behind players like Ruiz and your pitcher is too conservative.. then by all means, i’m way too conservative.

     Doug.. how about ALL the players try to use the whole field.. Howard and Burrell seemed to be doing that early in the season, but they both have gotten away from it. Howards ground balls are pulled..and his fly balls go OPPO.. not sure why he can’t choke up and punch one through the hole when there is no 3b..

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