Phillies Nation

38 Responses to “Hamels Ineffective In Loss To Cardinals”

1. Greg V. Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 10:32 am

   Yeah it was hardly a plausible effort from the man . But I’m not worried just yet. However, another start like the last two may change all that.

2. Phil Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 am

   You guys remember when he had 2 bad outings in a row against the Marlins and the Astros and then bounced back from them and pitched like 10 solid outings in a row? Maybe that’ll happen again.

3. Fred Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 am

   Maybe we are again over-valuing our players. Perhaps the true Cole Hamels is coming through – maybe he is only a 3-4 starter. What is his best pitch? The changeup? Could be the rest of the league is catching on to him? But then again, perhaps Eskin is correct – he’s injured.

   Whatever the issue(s) is/are with Hamels, this just brings to light the fact the Phils are without a true #1 starter.

4. EastFallowfield Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am

   Lohse pitched 5 and 1/3 with 3 ER. The only way difference between his ‘good’ start and Hamels’ bad one is he got lifted before he could give up more.

5. Fred Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 am

   True but Lohse is not their #1 starter. Hamels is our #1.

6. Phil Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 11:28 am

   Fred, that’s a little absurd. Hamels is just a kid. He’s going to go through rough patches. His stuff was not on at all last night. He’ll bounce back. I don’t think he’s injured though. He wouldn’t pitch injured.

7. Fred Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 am

   Phil, the proof is in the pudding. What does age have to do with anything? Opposing teams don’t cut you break because you’re a ‘kid’. He’s in the bigs and the only thing that matters is performance.

8. EastFallowfield Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 am

   So pitching to an ERA of 5 or 6 is pitching well as long as you’re not a #1? If so, Eaton’s looking good.

9. scot Says:
   August 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 pm

   Hamels is the Phillies biggest disappointment this season. Period.

   At some point he needs to keep the ball and/or limit runs in the yard in a big game, and it just hasn’t happened yet.

10. Rick Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    scot – Myers?

    Phil – I thought some about your comment that Cole wouldn’t pitch hurt. You know, you’re probably right. It seems like anytime Cole has been hurt in the past, he’s been honest with Charlie about it.

    I believe Eskin said that his source was scouts? That could mean nothing. I mean scouts could pick up a mechanics change issue that might lead them to think that. This change could also be the problem in the last two starts.

    I don’t understand why the Phillies pitchers have so many mechanics issues. I mean hasn’t Dubee been doing this for a long time? I would think he’d pick up on these things immediately. Especially since he’s around these guys day-in and day-out.

    I think if the Phils don’t make the playoffs this year, Dubee and Milt could be the ones who take the fall for it.

11. Rick Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    BTW – Does anyone know when teams put players on waivers?

12. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Rick, I just have much higher expectations of Cole than Myers. He’s the guy who before the season was telling everyone who’d listen how he wants to win the Cy Young, throw a no hitter, win twenty games, and he’s nowhere near that level right now. Dude has given up more than 5 runs in 5 starts if I remember correctly. He just hasn’t been ace material.

    Myers is a headcase, but eveyone knew that coming into the season. Hamels is awful.

13. EastFallowfield Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    Biggest disappointments:

    Jenkins
    Myers
    Taguchi
    Madson

14. EastFallowfield Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    Hamels has lost games 1-0, 3-2, and 2-0. Win those games and he’s 12-4. That doesn’t include 4 NDs where he went 7 IP 0 ER, 8 IP 2 ER, 7 IP 2 ER, 8 IP 2 ER.

15. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Hamels is awful. Let’s trade him…Scot you are the biggest homer Phillies fan of all time.

16. Jack Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    scot you’re awful. Myers was the opening day starter and he may be one bad start away from the bullpen. Hamels has looked shaky in a few starts but dominant in others.

17. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Did I interrupt the Hamels family reunion in here? Sorry, ladies. I’ll just get some punch and leave you to your knitting.

    The ace of a staff is the guy in the staff who is supposed to get the wins under the toughest situations, including when you don’t get the run support. That’s what he’s supposed to do. Hamels hasn’t. Especially against the best teams he’s faced.

    Phil, I’ve never said trade Hamels at every point. Never. Ever. Never. But I will take your biggest homer comment as a compliment. It’s not every day that someone whose put 6k miles on his car to watch this team from Connecticut gets such an award. Cheers!!!

18. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    I find the blind defense of Hamels in here so interesting, for real. I mean when Howard was leading the league in RBI’s people were still jumping all over him. But he’s batting .230. He’ll have 200 k’s!!! He’s an albatross.

    Meanwhile, Hamels can consistently give up homeruns in big games against good teams to give up the lead, or tie a game, and he’s never to blame. It can’t possibly be Hamels fault the ball left his hand, hit the bat and went over the fence. It’s the fault of our offense!!!

    It’s a really intersting juxtaposition.

19. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    The past 2 outings was his fault, but almost everyone of his losses and no decisions was not his fault.

20. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    15 of Carlos Ruiz’s GIDP’s weren’t his fault, either. It’s just really good pitching. Chooch is blameless.

    86 of Howard’s K’s. Spotty umpiring. The umpiring union doesn’t pay for Lasik.

    The double standard here is hilarious to me.

21. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    Okay, well I’m with you then. Hamels sucks. Bring me in a guy that will post a 0.00 ERA and pitch 9 innings. I want a guy that can throw a perfect game every time. A super perfect game. 81 pitches all them for strikes striking out 27 batters. Hamels is a #5 at best.

    Quick question does Santana suck?

22. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    Man, there is no middle ground for you is there Phil. You live in an all or nothing world. Never said anything about him being a #5 either.

    Being as though I never said Hamels sucks, I wouldn’t say that Santana sucks either. Like the case with Hamels, if I were a Met fan I’d say he’s been a bit of a dissappointment, and I know several Mets fans up here who agree with me. Bunch of homers, those guys!!!!!

23. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    “Hamels is awful.”

    You said that. Awful and sucks are pretty synonymous.

24. Geoff Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    thats why they needed cc sabathia, rich harden, aj burnett, roy halladay, etc and when they failed to get one they assed out and went with joe. well, joe better discover a whole new level for them today and in the weeks to come, because if myers falters then you plug happ in, but what happens if hamels is injured and needs 2 weeks off? waiver-trade slop, get ready for it. jarrod washburn, bronson arroyo, ugh.

25. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Well, I’m glad I at least got you over to the side of truth and reality Phil. Welcome! Jump in, the waters fine.

26. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    No, yo uhaven’t. I don’t think Hamels is awful.

27. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    You said, “I’m with you then.”

    I’ll take that as meaning, “I’m with you then.”

    I still don’t see where I said overall Hamels is awful, though his past two starts have surely been. And in some big games he has not been ace quality. But I’ll take the I’m with you then as seeing the facts and sharing in my disappointment.

28. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Scroll up. You said Hamels is awful.

29. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    And when I said I’m with you I was being sarcastic.

30. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Well look at that, I did. My mistake. I’ll rephrase that as a collassal disappointment, as I have been saying for the past 2 weeks in games that matter. And then he just keeps going out and proving me right like he did last night.

31. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Last night you were right, a few weeks ago when he allowed 2 earned runs in 8 innings you weren’t right.

32. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    You may think I wasn’t right, but I did predict the outcome and Hamels giving up the home runs. That’s just part of the expertise that I bring.

33. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Santana gives up a ton of homers too. Even when he won cy young awards. A lot of lefty change up pitchers do.

34. Geoff Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    i personally feel that hamels will be complete when he throws more curves and develops another pitch. he is a little predictable and good hitters, if theyre not behind in the counts, wont swing at the changeup. theyll force him to spot the fastball on the corners. his fastball is the pitch that gets jacked the most. i wonder what his slider looks like and if he has ever tried to throw one. santana has a really good slider and i think that hamels would benefit form learning one in the offseason just as kendrick would complete himself with an improved changeup.

    i still think they need to replace rich dubee or the strength coach. i think ive found enough recent evidence that when starters come here under their guidance their velocity drops. you can tell lidge doesnt listen to dubee at all because he doesnt need to be coached. closers get annoyed when coaches try to do that anyway. you think anyone EVER talks to papelbon out there? that guy is a wild-eyes flamethrowing lunatic. his splitter is as good or better than rich hardens.

35. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Yeah, Geoff, Santana does have a nasty slider, but it can only be effective to lefties. Hamels actually struggles more against lefties than righties.

36. scot Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Phil, it isn’t about the number of home runs you give up as much as it is when you give them up. Game tying and lead giving home runs are a whole different story than giving up a solo blast when having a 3 or 4-1 lead.

37. Phil Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Well Scot, Sabathia and Sheets lost to the Cubs last week in huge games. Are they awful pitchers too?

38. Lewisauce Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 9:36 am

    I’m on Phil’s side here. Hamels is our No. 1, and he is and will continue to be a No. 1. Phil’s analysis of his losses/no decisions is, imho, accurate (i.e. not his fault).

    The problem right now with Hamels is that he is not following through on his pitches. Watch (if you have a DVR or something) Friday night’s game. His left hand at the end of his delivery is at his hip. It SHOULD be down around his knee (or even ankle). When he finishes at his hip, he’s also releasing higher in the delivery, and his pitches are coming in high. And we all know that high, hanging pitches will get salamied by good hitters.

    He’s prone to this even in his good starts (that’s why Chooch adopted the Tony Pena-style squat, to get him to try to keep it down).

    He’s not hurt, and he is a Hall-of-Fame-potential pitcher. I’m not a pitching coach, but if he concentrates on his follow-through in his delivery, he should be able to keep the ball down more. This will eliminate the dingers and make any slider/change-up pitches far more effective.

    Just my couple of cents.

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