Phillies Nation

144 Responses to “Rollins, Phils Put Nats Away”

1. Tim Malcolm Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:11 am

   Short recap today. Brian has the great photos from the game and I watched none of the game last night – I was instead rocking out to the Killers. Sweet.

2. Charlie Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:19 am

   What do you think about Chase Utley intentionally getting hit by a pitch? Atleast it seemed intentional.

3. Mike T. Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:27 am

   I used to be a Killers fan – not much anymore.

4. Tim Malcolm Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:28 am

   More on that soon — probably was intentional after Kendrick’s HBPs. Good thing Utley didn’t retaliate — good teams show it on the field.

5. Mike T. Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:37 am

   It was definitely intentional.

6. Geoff Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:40 am

   speaknig of beaning people, they need to get chris duncan this weekend. sened clay condrey out thjere to put one in his ribs.

7. Mr. Brightside Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:41 am

   F you then MIKE T

8. Mike T. Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:42 am

   Smile like you mean it.

9. Charlie Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:43 am

   Cholly had somethings to say about it too.

   “The catcher set right in behind him,” Manuel said. “Yeah, he threw at him. No doubt about it.”

   Thanks to High Cheese where I stole that quote.

10. Mike T. Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:43 am

    yeah, i’m all for pegging the shit out of chris duncan.

11. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:43 am

    . . .
    Though the Phillies did not react on the field last night, they certainly took notice of Nationals’ reliever Jesus Colome’s eighth-inning pitch that hit Chase Utley in the back.

    “The catcher set right in behind him,” Manuel said. “Yeah, he threw at him. No doubt about it.”

    The play was likely in retaliation for two pitches by Kyle Kendrick that hit batters, one of which hit Nationals star Ryan Zimmerman on the wrist and knocked him out of the game. Neither was intentional. Utley appeared to glare at Colome as he ran to first base, but that was the extent of the fireworks.

    Could there be retaliation in store in the future?

    “That’s something you don’t say a word about,” Manuel said.

    Utley took the high road after the game.

    “It’s part of the game. No big deal,” he said. The important thing is, we won.”

    But his teammates took notice.

    “It’s a baseball thing, it definitely is,” short stop Jimmy Rollins said coyly. “But there’s a little more to that baseball thing.”

    ^

    FYI: Adam Eaton gave up four runs in 3 2/3 innings of his first minor league start for Class A Lakewood tonight.

12. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am

    i wonder what guys will be waiver-traded in the coming days?

    they still need all three things i mentioned yesterday. i dont think they need a loogy, thats what romero is. they need a real setup man. whoever it is, loogy or not, theyll have to be someone who is a late inning guy. better not be garbage though, for goodness sake.

    if their not going to win the WS they better at least win the division, and to do that theyll need those things.

13. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:45 am

    maybe it can be rudy seanez’s last act as a phillie before they DFA him.

14. Mike T. Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:49 am

    yeah, he looked horrible in so many different ways last night.

15. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:51 am

    yeah hes done. i think theyre waiting for a waiver-trade to materialize befor ethey release him. because i seriously think its dangerous to rely on tom gordon coming back into his previous role. thats wreckless and stupid.

16. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:53 am

    all things considered… when a guy with a 3.58 ERA is the worst in your bullpen.. that ain’t too bad

17. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:54 am

    not bad at all. but you need another 8th inning guy. they shouldve gotten one yesterday but since they didnt they have to hope one comes available in the next week or so.

18. Mike T. Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 9:55 am

    yeah, well – his strike to walk ratio sucks, and gives up more than one hit per inning.

19. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:01 am

    they have someone like him already, clay condrey, so you need to make an upgrade there for a stretchj run.

    youre are right that the phillies did get better by NOT getting arthur rhodes though, that was appropriately noted yesterday.

    that guy will blow like 3-7 games for the marlins down the stretch.

20. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:03 am

    I agree that they should have added someone… but you know what the price tags were, maybe they felt like the Winter Meetings would get them more value since teams will be trying to get the Phillies prospects, instead of the Phillies trying to get the other teams’ veterans… if that makes any sense

21. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:09 am

    All I gotta say is put Jenkins on waivers.

22. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:13 am

    how about this from the Daily News…

    The Chicago Tribune reports that three Cubs fans face felony battery charges after allegedly beating a White Sox fan so severely that he lost his right eye. The incident apparently started with taunting about his choice of teams to root for.
    This is both sad and scary. Do we all need to be reminded that sports is supposed to be fun? And that, no matter what, it’s still only a game? *

23. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:14 am

    yeah i guess so. but thats where i think brett myers will be traded, hopefully the prospects they get will offset the ones they give up for a setup man.theyll have to get one on a waiver-trade here who can hold up for two months or so.

    i doubt there will be setup men out there in free agency, there usually arent many of them. i think they have to trade for one whos younger and under team control for a little while. that should be a top 3 priority in the offseason

    offseason: big name starter (ben sheets,etc), resign pat burrell (if you cant, you HAVE to replace him with someone of equal quality, no excuses), setupman, happ or carrasco will be ready next year:what to do with them, marson will be ready to come up.

    lots of things on their plate in the offseason, they completely failed to handle all but two of them properly last offseason (lidge, feliz were good moves, th erest of their issues were not addressed at all).

    so theyll be busy, or at least, they should be

24. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:16 am

    Do you think anyone would pick up Myers on waivers?

25. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:19 am

    you think jenkins would find a suitor if the phillies ate some of his salary? PLENTY of teams didnt get an OF at the deadline. the phillies should go get one of their own, because im sure whoever they get will be better than him. then you move him for a bad prospect or something and eat his salary. maybe ed wade wants him? he seems to think that the astros are in contention still…

26. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:22 am

    Myers has value, but only at the winter meetings. trading myers now is selling waaaaaaaay low. they shouldve made him into a setup man when he was in the minors. but now theyll have to hope he does well enough to warrant either keeping him or getting a good package for him in the winter.

    id say make him their setupman going into next year BUT his contract is too high for that role in the team. therefore, youre not getting value there by paying your setup man 12mm (moneyball).

27. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:23 am

    haha I know Jenkins would get picked up off of waivers instantly. He’s a left handed power option off of the bench. I don’t think Myers would be picked up though.

28. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Why would the Phillies put Myers on waivers??

29. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Salary dump. They should be looking to dump salary right now to sign Sabathia.

30. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:29 am

    They do need to resign Burrell unless they’re going to try and sign Vlad or Manny…

31. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:31 am

    I thought something was funny in response to the Moneyball aspect that some GMs use, but old school managers like LaRussa, Leyland, and Pinella think its more about what effort the players put into it.

    Lou Piniella, Cubs Manager

    “Statistics are like bikinis. They show a lot, but never everything.”

    http://www.theloveofsports.com/index.php/site/comments/top_20_baseball_quotes_of_all_time/

    Its funny how to somet the Moneyball concept is the greatest thing ever, and to others they just want the right pieces and guys who can do the little things, like move runners over, and make pitchers work

32. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:32 am

    burrell on a 3 year contract is the best value. if they lose him, you HAVE to trade for someone as good at least and that costs prospects and thats why they didnt get anything done yesterday…

33. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Who do you speculate will be available for trade next year?

34. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Who is going to be a Free Agent after the 2009 season? A lot of times, those are the guys you target because if they team doesn’t think they can resign them, they might cut them loose for prospects instead of wait around on draft picks

35. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:44 am

    True Don M. Jason Bay comes to mind, so does Matt Holliday. You know the Rox will be dealing him during the winter meetings. He’ll be next years Johan Santana. They should just trade for him and extend his contract.

36. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:44 am

    I think you have to balance it. the marlins kind of do play moneyball though, maybe not as strict as beane does it, but they win with their philosophy. of course they have the best scouts though. moneyball is all about recofgnizing value when you see it and properly assinging current monetary value to certain tiers of statistics and player types. when a player exceeds those tiers, you either can elect to keep him at a higher value or you trade him for prospects. for small market teams, this is the bible basically. however, the phillies are not a small market team. the phillies should spend more money simply because theyre not good at that aspect of moneyball. if they had someone good at placing accurate value on players, theyd be able to win with their current payroll. because they cant do that properly they have to spend more to cover up for inadequacies. adam eaton and geoff jenkins are examples of bad value assignment. feliz is an example of good value because hes signed cheaply.

37. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:51 am

    Yea, but people want them to spend all this money all the time… that would mean we’d have Aaron Rowand at $10-million per season, and Alfonso Soriano at $18 M per season coming up… there would be no way to sign any ptichers, or keep any of your own young talent that develops…

    I think we’re going to start seeing the contracts scale back down.. A-rod might go down as the best player in baseball history.. so he got a ton..

    But teams are realizing the importance of yougn talent, signed cheaply..and then adding pieces around it, the Yankees $250 M payrolls didn’t work out for them

38. NJ Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:52 am

    The Phils could put Myers on waivers if things go downhill to gauge interest but lets not go there, Brett will continue to build on his last start (is the thought we all fall asleep to)

    One for the nickname section: Adam’s just Beaton, the Phils are going to eat some salary there and cut him although I hope it’s not till ST next season, might as well have him lingering in the pen once the rosters open up.

39. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:53 am

    i hope youre right about that and i think they will scale down a bit.

    youll see that in the nfl too. the salaries have gotten disgracefullyy outrageous.

    11mm for carlos silva ruined baseball contracts and now they have to reset it.

    the nhl players gaveback 25% of theri salaries to help get their sport back on track and its worked beautifully.

40. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:54 am

    i want them to spend their money too. if you cant keep aaron rowand, then you have to get someone as good as him but younger and cheaper. thats what ticked me off.

41. Mike T. Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:57 am

    yesterday, Eskin called the phillies ownership, “the most fraud ownership in sports today.”

42. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 10:58 am

    i think tahts why you didnt see alot of trades yesterday. normally theres a mad flurry of teams urinating away prospects for garbage.

    that didnt really happen. you have to splurge on pitching because pitching is expensive. but the carlos sivla thing really screwed things up. the fact that the red sox have all taht pitching stashed away and didnt blow it all shows that they beleive in that too. theyre just better at it than others are. they ahve a little more wiggle room to splurge on elit players.

43. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:00 am

    i think tahts mostly true mike.

    the priates owners have the best ballpark in mlb and they dont spend to its profit potential. they might be the worst.

44. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Victorino is filling in fine Geoff, whether you want to believe it or not.

    AVG SLG OBP HR RBI R S
    Rowand .287 .440 .351 9 55 43 2

    Victorino .289 .441 .355 9 38 70 26

    Who is having the better 08? Victorino is playing gold glove defense, he’s been a huge spark to the offense, when he’s on base you can tell he rattles pitchers, and he’s been trying to be a positive uplifting force on the team. Victorino was definitely a very good replacement for Rowand.

45. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Geoff don’t make me keep bustin out the Rowand vs. Victorino comparison this year… Victorino has better numbers in every catergory except RBIs… and he makes $9,120,000.00 less than Rowand this season

46. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:02 am

    i really do think they could spend 130-150mm per year no sweat. they choose not to.

    they are ahppy with their position. otherwise, theyd have gutted the leadership of this oprganization years ago. amaro, arbuckle, all those bad scouts and bad trainers that screw up ALL THE TIME.

    gillick is gone anyway, but they let ed wade stay around FOREVER. tahts inexcuseable. they were the worst pro sports franchise in north america under ed wade and theyve greatly improved under gillick, yes, but theyre clearly not prepared to make a full-time, all-out commitment to building a culture of winning and positivity.

47. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:03 am

    I was one step ahead of you Don M. Victorino has less RBI’s because he bats in the 2 hole.

48. nick Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:04 am

    I think Myers would be interesting to teams in need of a closer – let’s not forget he did quite well when he was in that spot.

49. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:05 am

    sure, hes fine in center, but they lost rbi production and they needed to get it back in a cost-effective way, they failed to do that when they signed jenkins.

    im talking about, where are all of those RBI’s coming from now? feliz and jenkins? victorino is doing his part but there are holes of production there

50. fred Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Let Seanez bow out tonight by smacking Duncan in the head with his best fastball. Then it’s time to go find someone else of more value to the pen. On mlbtraderumors they’re speculating that Randy Winn can be had as no one will claim his salary. He’d be an nice addition to the OF and would cost nothing in terms of prospects.

51. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:07 am

    im not asking about rowand THIS Year. im asking, what are you replacing his numbers last year with for good value? where are those rbis coming from. not his number THIS YEAR> if you want to let him go, ok fine, but you have to replace the production that you relied on last year with value in the outfield somewhere, otherwise youre not as good

52. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Then it’s not Victorino’s fault. I think Victorino will be a good center fielder lead off/2 hole guy for the next few years.

53. fred Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Geoffs right, with the Philadelphia market and sky high attendence figures at least 120 million should be spent annually on the team, not 90-100. Just look at the red sox, the have a similar market and a much less profitable ballpark yet they’re up above 150. Even the Mets greatly outspend us it’s a joke.

54. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Rowand hit in the 5 hole. That’s why his RBI production was so good.

55. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:10 am

    I would say that they are getting more production at third base then in years past.. and werth/jenkins have 68 RBIs between the two of them..

    Holla..

56. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:14 am

    no, its not victorinos fault. im not blaming victorino, hes doing fine. he wasnt earlier this season, but hes improved himself greatly. its gillicks fault for thinking that feliz and jenkins will replace that production.

    feliz is a good value and hes been mostly a good signing. it comes back to thinkgin that a werth/jenkins platoon is good enough when its simply not. jenkins has not held up his end of the deal at all and werth cant hit righties so hes not an everyday player, period. theres still a lot of rbis going unaccounted for that they relied on last year.

57. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:15 am

    EVEN THE METS GREATLY OUTSPEND US…

    Am I dumb, is NEW YORK about 35x the market that Philadelphia is…

    They COULD spend more money.. they choose not.. BUT.. they’ve been increasing payroll the past few season, and its been said that they will target a top-of-the-rotation Free Agent pitcher in the offseason… at least we’re among the top teams each year, and they give us a good team to watch and root for all the time

58. Griffin Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:15 am

    say what you want about the competency (or lack thereof) of Ed Wade, but the Phillies did draft extremely well during his time here. This team is built around Arbuckle draft picks under Ed Wade. You have to at least credit him for that…

59. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:16 am

    heres the other side of it though fred. the phillies and the mets misspend a lot fo the money that we do spend. imagine how good theyd be if they spent it wisely??

    part of me wants them to spend more, and thats accurate and they should spend more, but they cant go out and make even more bad decisions there like they did with adam eaton.

60. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:20 am

    thats where i disagree don, thats the problem i have htough don. im not happy with simply having a team good enough to watch and root for every year.

    where does that lead? it hasnt led anywhere since 1993 and it hasnt culminated since 1980.

    it has to be TO AN END. all of the stuff theyre doing now, waiver wire people, cheap guys, adam eatons, etc. all of this leads NOWHERE. it has no good end. weve seen this before. they might get to the WS, repeat, might. they probly wont thogh, and they definitely wont win it.

    when do you draw the line and say, we have to win now. and if youre not prepared to do that then dont own a sports team.

    know what im saying?

    there never a cycle with this team. its always just sort of there. in the mix. not standing out as elite at all. stuck in purgatory. not going for it all, but not rebuidling for a run in the future. just there…

61. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:22 am

    Aaron Rowand 373 at bats… 55 RBIs = 1 RBI every 6.78 at bats

    Jenkins 252 ABs…27 RBIs = 1 RBI every 9.33 at bats

    They both have 9 Home Runs… so Jenkins hits Home Runs more frequently

    Werth has 240 ABs…41 RBIs = 1 every 5.85 at bats.. and he’s got 15 HR

    Those numbers along with Victorino, should make it pretty clear that they aren’t missing Rowans too much.. and I think Victorino is a better defensive outfielder than Rowand too

62. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Because owning a sports team is the same as owning every other business… they are making money, lots of it.. its easier for us to tell them to spend more.

    That is like telling a movie director to add more special-effect blowup scenes (eventhough his past couple movies have been very exciting!) and the extra money that it costs to possibly make it the best action movie of the year, might not be worth it to him if it comes directly out of his pockets.. and there is no gaurantee you are going to win the award, because you don’t know what other movies are going to show up on the screen that year

63. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:29 am

    maybe im not explaining this well.

    aaron rowand hit .309 last year, had .374 OBP and .551 SLG, had 27hr and 89 rbi.

    he was the clubhouse leader. im OK with him elaving. fine, forget about his production this year. where is that production coming from this year. who is leading this team? who out of jenkins and feliz are giving you that production. werth was alreayd here, shane was already here. what is geoff jenkins doing thats worth anything at all? why isnt he on waivers right now? pedro feliz has value but isnt going to produce liek aaron rowand did.

    you see what im saying? what are you replacing his NUMBERS with?

64. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:29 am

    I want them to win desperately… but look at teams like the Cubs, the RedSox, …. they’ve struggled for years and years and years… and they’ve been close a few times.

    Baseball is the hardest sport to make the playoffs in.. and they’ve currently created a team that for the next few years, should have a very good chance of making the playoffs, and they seem to be only a player or two away from being among the top teams in baseball..

    Ownership knows they have to keep fielding good teams, and so they have increased payroll… like the Eagles, GETTING to the playoffs is great if you haven’t been there in a while, but once you do it a few years in a row…your fans expect more… I think the Phillies ownership sees that, and that is why you can expect them to land a good starting pitcher this offseason to match with Cole Hamels

65. fred Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:30 am

    Ruiz decline hasn’t exactly helped either. Although Coste has been good, especially for a back up. I can’t wait to see Marson in september.

66. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:31 am

    of course its easier bcause theyre making money. theyre in a comfort zone

    the most practical solutions? ed snider/comcast buys the team and spends more money on players and the farm system

    OR

    get a GM, NOT RUBEN AMARO, and a player personnel department/farm director who is an expert at assigning CORRECT value to players. GOOD scouts, GOOD talent evaluators in the front office.

    they really dont have that. gillick is better than ed wade, but even gillick has incorrectly valued several players.

67. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:34 am

    i really, really, really hope they do get that starting pitcher in the offseason. its so much easier to replace position players than it is to replace pithcing.

    im going to totally crush them if they dont get what they need though.

    last year wasnt a good year to get a SP in the offseason really. there wasnt much out there on the top end. but the more i look at it the more i wouldve just gone for it. they didnt want to give up carlos carrasco, so the indians opted for the other package from the brewers. so i hope carlos carrasco is going to be a stud because hes the main reason we didnt get sabathia.

68. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:36 am

    I would like to think they’ll get Sheets. Sabathia is going to the Giants. He wants to play on the west coast. They’ll build a team around GREAT pitching and be serious contenders.

    Lincecum
    Sabathia
    Cain
    Sanchez
    whoever

69. Bruce Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Did I read correctly from some poster here suggesting Myers be put on waivers? What? Merely for the purpose of “salary dumping”?? Myers’ improvement in his last outing (vs Nats) suggests he will add stability to the rotation. Take a long look at the rotation and you see three pitchers with at least 9 wins to their record and could have more with better run support. Add Myers and Blanton if they pitch to their capability with Happ waiting in the wings and you can see why many clubs wish they had the Phillies’ so called rotation “problems”.

70. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:37 am

    i think the giants will be good next year actually. i also think the reds will be legitimate contenders to make the playoffs in their division too.

71. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:38 am

    im not saying myers should be waived because its selling low, but you cant put a lot of stock in the last start, the antionals suck bruce.

    th real test is sunday. his last start only served him well in that it gave him some level of confidence going forward.

72. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:40 am

    I agree Geoff. I picked the Reds for this year, but they fell short. They’ll get some outfield talent to go along with Bruce and they have a good infield. They have a good 1-2 punch if Harang comes back healthy. They have a good closer too.

73. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:42 am

    the reds have hoarded some nice pitching. they have harang, volzuez, cueto as a good top 3. good closer. good young position players. they might be dangerous next year or the year after.

74. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:45 am

    They need to solidify a good catcher or at least decent catcher and 2 outfielders.

75. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:46 am

    cueto sucks balls and throws lots of them too…

    I thought they would be very good this year and so I took Cordero instead of Mariano Rivera as a closer in fantasy baseball this year.

    Geoff, What has or hasn’t Ruben Amaro done that makes you A.) Hate him. and B.) Sure that he is going to be a bad GM ?

76. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:51 am

    it should be rather obvious. ruben amaro is THE stereotypical executive yes-man suckup to the ownership. total sychophantic head-nodding puppet. he has been brought up through the system and trained in their ways. hes learned from ed wade and pat gillick.

    dont you think they need a fresh pair of eyes in there? someone with different ideas?

    if they go with an internal yes-man next year, i really dont think theyll sign a starting pitcher of any value at all don, itll be more of the same, they dotn value starting pitching for whatever reason. its not in their philosophy.

    they need someone from the outside to come in, someone who will demand startin gpitching and demand the common sense things that top flight teams to that sets them apart from the phillies. top to bottom, they ened a fresh approach. the scouting is bad, the trainers are bad. the player personnel decision-making is bad. thank goodness they have about a dozen great players on the roster who make them watchable and make them a contender for their division. without those few guys, theyd be as bad as the nationals. because their organizational makeup is about as bad

77. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:54 am

    and amaro is a dickhead about the whole thing

78. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Wasn’t Gillick just brought-in from the outside with a fresh set of eyes.. and hasn’t he guided them to the playoff doorstep, and then to the division crown in his two seasons here?

    The scouting is bad.. the trainers are bad…. haven’t the Phillies been pretty healthy so far this season, much more than say Atlanta or New York (knock on wood)..

    Amaro is THE stereotypical YES MAN… What do you want him to speak-up about and get fired over?

    That they need to increase payroll (haven’t they done that the past few seasons?)

    and go after starting pitching (haven’t they said they’re going to do that this year)

    I think this is another case of you ranting, just to rant.. nobody knows whether Amaro will be the next GM or not.. and Arbuckle has overseen most of the good players we still have, and advised the Phillies GMs which guys to keep.. and I think he’s won a few awards in the process.. as voted on by others in baseball

79. Jamie Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    I think you guys should check out the latest Phillies Minor League review. There are some promising subjects listed there, and it seems pretty informative.

    http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/phi/downloads/y2008/072908.pdf

80. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    keep in mind, im not just bashing gillick, im bashing the organization itself.

    theyve barely inscreased payroll..in 3 years they went from 89mm to 99mm, and thats debateable depending on whos numbers you beleive.

    amaro needs to provide a counter-opinion to the general manager to force him to think in different dimensions. typical government-style. thats why the government is incompetent at the very least. the department heads are all surrounded by yes-men. no alternative views, no hashing through problems, just one way, one idea, one method.

    they said they were going to go after starting pitching THIS year and that they would go for it. montgomery said “shame on us if we dont go all out to win a championship” he said that on mike missanellis show a few days before they failed to get CC. and since im prett ysure that youll agree that even if blanton performs well, getting joe blanton is not going for it. well, montgomery, SHAME ON YOU! theyd better go after a top line starter in the offseason, but im pretty sure they havent said anything at all about the offseason.

    when the phillies have traded for prospects, those deals have historically been TERRIBLE. abreu, schilling, rolen, padilla, polanco all brought nothing in return. they shouldve won a WS with the returns for those guys but they get nothing. even a few stars who are still around wouldve been nice, but they got NOTHING. thats BAD SCOUTING, thats BAD PLAYER PESONNEL EVALUATION.

    they traded for freddy garcia when the white sox knew he was already injured and they insisted that he NOT take a physical. they didnt give him a physical. THATS RETARDED. only a mentally retarded person would accept that agreement!!!!!!

    youre mistaken about gillick, gillick was brought in because hes a yes-man too. they would not have hired him if he was going to rock the boat and storm into the owners office demanding money for this and that. he doesnt do any of that stuff.

    this time around is different. their approach has failed to win a WS, therefore, you have to completely gut the front office and the personnel, scouting, and farm people. new people, new approach. you need a strong-willed, good baseball man in there who knows how to deal with weak ownership and still get what the team needs to win.

    they simply dont have anyone like that at all. tahts not pat gillick.

81. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    I’d like to sit-in with you on all these meetings they have where they all just sit around agreeing with one another.. and non of them ever think outside the box on anything (like trading for a Closer that people thought was no-good anymore)

    What starting pitchers were out there that you thought would be better than Brett Myers going into this season?

    Which outfielder do we have that is a better prospect than Matt LaPorta (which the Indians said was the difference maker in that trade)?

    Things you “think” and things you “know” are different things… yet, for some reason, you “think you know” the ins-and-outs of the Phillies highers ups

82. Todd Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    Mainly, Rowand got hits in big spots last year, at least from what I saw. If anything, i’m focused on missing that than his overall numbers.

    Also, Chris Duncan is on the DL… unless he’s come off this week or is coming off this weekend. I’m sure there are plenty of others to hit… i do wish they could just throw in the dugout and knock the glasses right off of LaRussa’s face.

83. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    theyve said the indians liek their packages, but would only do the deal if they included carlos carrassco. the phillies said no.

    then my problem is: if you really want to win, you KEEP TRYING. down the line. harden, halladay, burnett: all failed. they settled for blanton early and then gave up on the idea of elite SP AGAIN.

    you keep working it. if they were really working on all of this stuff. we wouldve heard much more than rumors and denials, we wouldve heard details, and we didnt hear a lot of details.

    they had the SAME approach as they always have. they can afford, in their eyes, to spend more now because of CBP than they did with the vet. thats the only tangible difference.

    at least pat gillick isnt totally incompetent, because if ed wade were still here with this group theyd still have failed to get to the playoffs.

    but heres what it really comes down to don…youre CONTENT with them being in the race every year but not being good enough to win it all. i am not content with that. thats not good enough. ive seen taht too much to be content in this city with our teams.

    either go for it all or rebuild with an eye of going for it all in 2010 or 2011. dont keep us stuck in this mediocre purgatory of being in the race but never winning a championship AGAIN

84. UTLEY4PRESIDENT Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    HEY FUCK ALL YOU ASSHOLES WHO SAY J-ROLL AINT SHIT THIS YEAR!
    JIMMY IS BACK AND HES HERE TO TEAR ANYONES ASSHOLE THAT MESSES WITH HIM!!!!!!

85. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Geoff, your missing the big picture because you refuse to acknowledge anyone’s views except your own.

    As I said at 11:29… I WANT THEM TO WIN DESPERATELY !!!

    But I also know that they are inching closer and closer to where we want them to be.. acuiring a STUD (like Sabathia) would have given them a jump on that goal.. but it wouldn’t have guranteed anything (the Brewers are losing ground on the Cubs…) and there is a chance you lose him to Free Agency, and you would have lost those prospects as well.

    You said “either go for it all or rebuild with an eye of going for it all in 2010 or 2011.”

    is that a serious comment… obviously you can’t rebuild and then expect to contend for a World Series title in 1-2 years.. This is the most talented Phillies team since they last won a World Series.. and they’ve set themselves up to have money to spend on a Starting Pitcher (as we all agree, the missing piece to this puzzle) in the offseason..

    I’m not CONTENT with them “being in the race every year but not being good enough to win it all”… but I’m comforted by the fact that this group of players are all getting better and we should have a good chance to contend for a title over the next 3 seasons.. and our chances are only improved with additions that they might bring in

86. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    but we are always one or two players away. thats what philadelphia is all about in sports over the past 25 yeras. being good but not legitimate enough to be the very best. talking tough but then letting someone come in and walk all over you and spit in your face while you sit there and say and do nothing. thats what philadelphia has become.

    tahts not what im personally all about, and thats why i get upset at people who think its ok to always be good but not great, close but not ever achieve the ultimate goal.

    dont you see this as a continuation of the same pattern? theres nothing this team has done this year, really, that has shown me that theyre anywhere close to breaking that pattern of failure. i just dont se eit. they may make the playoffs because the marlins and the mets didnt do anything either.

    so another year goes by…am i hopeful that next year they may bring in elite pitching and fill their holes? sure. but we all knew their holes in the offseason, and they didnt fill them all. and they passed it off as not a big deal, but they still didnt fill the holes completely. thats the reason why theyre not any better.

    theyre not better. theyre worse this year, they have a worse record. theyre in first place because their division this year is garbage.

87. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    How can you say the Phillies are worse this year? Because Rowand is gone? Dude…chill the fuck out. Yeah, our offense is lacking Rowand, but our bullpen is lacking Mesa, Alfonseca, Geary, etc. and our rotation is lacking Eaton(finally), Garcia, Lieber, Durbin, and the rest of the trash that pitched in it last year. I guess they got a lot worse too.

88. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    last year they were able to hit good pitching. last year they had a better record at this point, this year their record is worse but their division is garbage.

    this year they have hit good pitching, legit pitching, maybe once all year?? thats about it. thye did much more of that last year. this year they get shut down by it.

89. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    the bullpen definitely got WAY better. but their lineup, the same guys for the most part, are performing much worse this year. they couldnt hit anything for 6 weeks. tahts pathetic.

90. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    im happy their in first place, i hope they stay there, i want to see playoff baseball again. but dont be surprised when a team with real pitching comes in and sweeps them again.

91. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Last year they hit good pitching, but it’s basically the same line up, so the same team depreciated. Last year they didn’t have a better record at this point actually, and last year they didn’t have the pesky Marlins to deal with so the division wasn’t all that much better.

92. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Again,

    which starting pitcher should we have signed that you thought was going to be better than brett myers?

    They haven’t ALWAYS BEEN GOOD… they sucked for the better part of my life, and over the past 4 years or so, have become one of the better teams in baseball… getting better as they go along… you’re just dramatic and to cry about how you DEMAND things..

93. Phil Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Actually, their division is better this year. The Mets have Santana. I don’t care what you have to say, they’re a better team this year, they were just underachieving as well. The Phillies were just underachieving, they’ll be back on track…hopefully. Our team has improved, it was just underachieving.

94. Eb Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    NEXT YEAR THE METS WILL HAVE A NEW STADIUM AND WILL BE FINANCIALLY UNTOUCHABLE. THE PHILS ARE GOING TO BE IN TROUBLE IF THEY DO NOT CONCENTRATE ON DEVELOPING AN ANGEL’S LIKE FARM SYSTEM

95. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    the braves were alittle more dangerous. the mets were much better last year before the great collapse. but the phillies took it to the mets and owned them last year. this year they havent been as dominant at all.

    thats what ive been trying to say, this team has depreciated a bit. not a lot, but enough to be very very noticeable.

96. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    i dont think im dramatic at all. i think most of the things i say are fairly obvious and pedestrian. i demand certain things because most of those demands are things that winning baseball teams do.

    thats a good poitn Eb. the mets will probably try to sign ben sheets from under our noses. and theyll get him and get away with it.

    if the phillies arent prepared to compete financially theyll have to have an awesome farm system. that means firing mike arbuckle and hiring a beane farm disciple.

97. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Geoff… what about how you said the trainers were bad earlier… and I pointed out how the Braves and Mets have had a pretty good amount of injuries.. and the Phillies went the longest of any team in the majors without making any pitching changes (and before you say something about that being a bad move, think about them having a 1st place team, and the best bullpen at the All-Star break)

    That is example #78,235 of something that you said that had no merit…

98. Geoff Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    don..i can only show you the door, youre the one taht has to walk through it.

99. Don M Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE STARTING PITCHER WE SHOULD HAVE SIGNED THAT YOU THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE BETTER THAN BRETT MYERS?

    You keep forgetting to answer that one…

100. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:14 pm

     Dude, know your sounding like the nerdy kid in grade school that tries too hard to out-wit kids that are picking on him.. .and thus gets picked on more… and im sounding like the bully who instead of your lunch money, just wants you to answer questions i have about the ridiculous comments you make

101. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pm

     you know what? i dont have to answer that. pat gillick has to answer for that. its his job to know. there were plenty of people available at the time via trade if you recall. not all of them had good years though.

     it was a bad year for free agency, and you could tell that because carlos silva got 11mm per year. they needed to trade.

102. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pm

     I’m with you Geoff. Don’t forget how LUCKY the Phils were to even make the playoffs last year. Otherwise they would have been the first franchise in MLB history to win above 85 games 5 straight years and not make the playoffs (ie 2nd in the NL east). And frankly there is no guarantee that something like that won’t happen this year. In fact, there is a very good chance that it may.

103. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

     actually, youre not sounding like a bully at all, you sound like a sucker who gets his lunch money conned out of him by a scam artist. except, im not the scam artist, the phillies are. im just the guy telling you to watch out for the scam artist.

104. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:17 pm

     thank you rob

105. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:17 pm

     And I’m sick and tired of 2nd place.

106. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:17 pm

     hey don…theres some swampland in florida ive got for sale, you in???

107. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:18 pm

     i concur…no more second place.

     if this team wins the world series ill sit here and apologize for weeks and i wont care because ill be happy that they won the world series, because, y know, winning makes fans happy.

108. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pm

     I mean… does anyone realize how miraculous it was that the Phil’s managed to win the NL East last year? I think we all tend to forget that. I feel like every season is the same for at least the past 6 years, in the end it’s gonna be 86-76. Am I crazy?

109. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:20 pm

     no youre not crazy. itll prob be similar this year. this division is weaker so they might win a few more games.

     the mets had the biggest september collapse ever in baseball. thats never happened before, and its not going to happen for a very long time. it filled us all up with false bravado that has slowly unraveled/

110. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:24 pm

     and if you dont think the phillies are scam artists think again…theyre high-powered businesspeople. you dont get that far through hard work in todays corporate america. in corporate america you get ahead by kissing ass and screwing people over and ripping off your customers.

     the old ways of hard work an ingenuity are less prevalent now. since i dont believe in the contemporary ways that most people go by now, it makes me upset when i see sports teams rippin goff fans.

111. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:25 pm

     that is your problem Geoff… you keep making point after point after point.. and then someone asks you to explain, and you get all defensive and say how you don’t need to explain it.

     For the past two months or so, you’ve been commenting on how Gillick did a terrible job. and again today made the comment that “we all knew what holes they had, and they didn’t fill them”

     Moving Myers to the rotation, and bringing in Lidge sure seemed like a good idea.. only Myers isn’t what we thought he would be, and Lidge is so much more than we thought he would be..

     Outside of Silva or Livan Hernandez, there wasn’t a whole lot out there.. but keep bashing, bashing, bashing how they didn’t do anything.. you sound like an intelligent baseball fan to me

112. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:28 pm

     ive explained it more than enough times. you didnt agree, so you dont count it as a good enough explanation for you. if thats how youre going to appraoch it, then why bother? if you dont agree thats fine. ive explained things when people have asked, but you dont accept it as an explanation if you dont agree with it. so in your mind it never happened at all.

113. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:28 pm

     Yyyyyyyyep. What if last year didn’t happen and the Met’s played even .500? I feel like the, I don’t want to say the urgency, but the attitude of all these threads would be much different. Guys like Geoff and I are just realists for the pure fact, Don, that MLB IS the hardest sport to make the playoffs so you really need to be 100% committed to being 1ST. The only teams that have won more games than the Phillies over the past 5 seasons are the Red Sox, Yankees, and Angels (I believe). The window of opportunity is closing with every season that passes. Our players aren’t immortal and they are getting older. in 3 seasons, Don, our core group of players are going to be in their mid 30’s. Winning a WS is a tall task, so what happens then if they don’t? Are we to wait another 15 years for a contender?

114. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:30 pm

     By the way… how many owners do the Phillies have? Does anyone actually know?

115. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:31 pm

     exactly rob, same as the eagles, the window is closing on the phillies, and it has already closed on the eagles. they have 2-3 years tops. tops. they need pat around for another year or two as well.

116. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:31 pm

     Well then can you do me the kind favor or reminding me

117. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:32 pm

     the phillies have 9 owners i think

118. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:32 pm

     what do you want explained? we could calmly start there

119. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:32 pm

     So you guys dont think that with Hamels, Rollins, Howard, Utley, Lidge, Victorino and all that we’ll have a good team for a few years to come?

120. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:33 pm

     Can anyone name a sports franchise that has won a championship that had more than 5 owners? I can’t

121. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

     Of course they’re a GOOD team, but you could say the same exact thing about the Marlins. There are a lot of GOOD teams.

122. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:36 pm

     And since when outside of Lidge (im not sure how old he is).. who is going to be in their mid-30s in 3 years?

     Geoff.. since I’m slow, could you explain to me how the Phillies have bad trainers..and which pitchers we should have obtained in the offseason, that you thought would be better than Brett Myers and a starter, and Lidge as a Closer. Thanks bud

123. Bruce Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm

     As of July 31:

     Last year: 106 games: 56-50 0.528 3 games back of Mets

     This year: 108 games: 59-49 0.546 1 game up in first over Mets

     This is from someone’s post that I copied and seems appropriate for this thread. As Phil and and Don M reiterated, the Phillies are a better team in a division that includes an improved Marlins and Mets (Santana will do that for any team). BTW, compare this year’s rotation and bullpen with last year when Phillies had used 28 different pitchers due to injuries and incompetence.

124. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm

     Front Office Directory

     Ownership
     David Montgomery General Partner
     Claire S. Betz Limited Partners
     Tri-Play Associates (Alexander K. Buck, J. Mahlon Buck, Jr. William C. Buck)
     Double Play, Inc. (John S. Middleton)
     Giles Limited Partnership (Bill Giles)

     Giles is the Chairman, and Montgomery is the President and the CEO

125. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:39 pm

     well you guys are talking about how the window is already closing on a team that just got to the window-sill last season.. doesn’t it usually stay open for a couple seasons?

126. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pm

     lidge is 30/31 already, bye the way..

     the easiest place to start was to not insult kyle lohse with a weak offer. they insulted him so bad that he took a lesser offer just to spite them and so taht he can get a big money offer this year.

     garland was available, bedard was available…you dont know they wouldnt have had better seasons here because its a different set of circumstances. bedard mght not even be injured right now, you dont know that.

     since i didnt have a problem with the lidge move, im not going to offfer another closer. because i never said i disliked the lidge trade. i loved it. obviously..the problem i had was i KNEW that theyd pass it off the way they did, as, oh we dont need to go out and get a top flight guy. and i didnt like that at all. from the start, i knew it wasnt enough. now i obviously did NOT think that myers would be as bad as he was. i thought hed win 14 games and be solid. but i still felt theyd need to replace eaton.

     they have bad trainers because they signed off on garcia without being thorough at all. they always seem to fail to recognize an injury until its painfully obvious on the field. they let tom gordon go out there and blow a few games before accepting that yes he is indeed injured.

127. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:51 pm

     im trying to find a list of other people available at the time. willis was avilable but that wasnt even a good idea then because we all knew he was overrated from our experiences against him.

128. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 1:52 pm

     yes it does. heres the problem…they just missed the playoffs the two years before that. throw in lasr year, giv ethem two more years after this year. windows last for 5 years as they did with the eagles. the eagles revived it a bit but only because of jeff garcia. they were already done at that point in time.

129. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:04 pm

     Thank you by the way!! THIS leads to good discussions, because I think they gave up a GOLD GLOVE winning SS to get Garland… who gives up a decent amount of HRs, has a 4.40 career ERA… 1.43 career WHIP…and career Opponents Batting Average is .272 !!! That, to me, would not have been better than Myers..

     They were in talks with the Orioles about Bedard, but from all accounts, the Mariners gave up WAY too much to get him, and now regret it.. so the Orioles wouldn’t have given him up unless we mad an even better offer than the Mariners.. and we would have KILLED them for that!

     I dont know what the hell happend on Garcia, but Im pretty sure that the trainers didn’t examine him … here is the article i just found on that, from the seattle times

     http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003753226_seam19.html

     “The Phillies, as is common practice, did not give Garcia an MRI before accepting him in a December trade with the White Sox for pitching prospects Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd. They relied on White Sox medical staff reports. Nothing unusual showed up in Garcia’s spring-training physical, which also did not include an MRI.

     Garcia missed his first two starts of the season with right biceps tendinitis. Exams after his start in Kansas City revealed labrum damage and rotator cuff fraying.”

130. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:06 pm

     maybe im blaming the trainers too much for garcia. if they looked at him at all, they wouldve (right?) recommended a more thorough examination.

     i am left wondering…were the trainers even allowed to look at him?

131. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pm

     there are a lot of high priced people out there ready to get waiver-traded. mlbtr has a preliminary list of people. they can still get a setup man off of that list acutally.

132. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pm

     I can’t tell if you are actually defending the Phillies Garcia move.

133. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:09 pm

     For $10mm you check EVERYTHING. EVERYTIME. Something was not right in this deal.

134. Rob Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:10 pm

     Think it’s common practice for the Phillies now to give MRI to players they sign for $10mm?

135. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

     No.. i was providing insight to the fact that I thought geoff’s claim that the Phillies have “bad trainers” had no facts behind it.

     Garcia sucked.. and his velocity was down, but he was a top-of-the-rotation, innings-eater, with post-season experience…

     They took a shot, it went down in flames..

     I just can’t stand that people continually bash this team, but then when you ask them what things they would have done differently.. there aren’t too many good answers…

     As I have been saying all along.. they’ve imrpoved since Gillick got here..and to me, it looks as though they will keep improving for the next few years. If 3 years from now, that still hasn’t gotten you any closer to the goal.. a World Series title.. then you think about starting over.. but not now, not when you are getting to where you want to be

136. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:14 pm

     i was surpsied that they gave up so much for garland. the angels were getting rid of cabrera but still…thats a lot for garland. does anyone have a list of the people available durnng the offseason i forget the rest…

     it was a BAD year for FA’s, but i thought there were a few more guys open for trading…i know the phillies had no shot at santana so i wont even say it…

     i wouldve accepted kyly loshe getting the 4 yeras he asked for. i didnt know hed be this good but i thought, tahts a fine guy to have in there. the fact they didnt get him led me to believe that theyd have probelms this year with their rotation. namely because adam eaton was still here..

137. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:16 pm

     im defending the idea of going out and getting someone. but the fact that they got him so easily and they didnt examine him was so shady.

138. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:16 pm

     I have no idea why it was “common place” for teams not to pitchers MRIs, and extensive physicals before making a trade.. but that comes from an outside source too, its not like it was the Phillies brass saying that.. which maybe eases the pain a little..

     They have done a great job in the past 2 years of acuiring helpful pieces through waivers… I expect them to do that again this year. and if they do that, while not paying the high price they would have at the deadline.. we need to give them credit for being smary once again.. we shall see

139. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

     and Im not sure but isn’t the “trade” for a waiver-player usually CASH back to that team, instead of giving them a prospect of yours, for someone that they are trying to dump?..

     the only thing that might suck is that if the Phillies are ahead of the Mets and Marlins… and say the Braves put Ohman on waivers..the team with the worst records gets him.. maybe first place isn’t where we want to be right now..?? I’m joking about that of course, but it could come back to bite whoever is up by 0.5 games at the time

140. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

     i dont understand why they didnt demand a compelte workup? it just doesnt make any sense. players always get physicals and lab work and so forth when they get signed or traded, in every sport

141. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:20 pm

     im still mad at them dont get me wrong. theyd better get a setupman and an outfielder through waiver-trades. and a starter if myers implodes again.

142. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pm

     nevermind about the last line i forgot happ…unless they find someone better than him

143. Geoff Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:22 pm

     i get mad at the phillies because they do too much of this andy reid trade out of the first round were happy without own people nonsense.

144. Don M Says:
     August 1st, 2008 at 2:26 pm

     I think Lohse is having such a great year, ONLY because he is with Dave Duncan, who is probably going to get Hall-of-Fame consideration…as a freakin pitching coach!

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