Phillies Nation

55 Responses to “What The Heck To Do With Happ?”

1. Phil Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm

   Putting Myers back in the pen right now just isn’t the answer. Our success this season and post season(if we make it) can really make or break us by Myers as a pitcher. If Myers can be the #2 we hoped and thought he was then the rest of the season can be a breeze.

2. NJ Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:19 pm

   Happ will get his chance, there’s a bit of flexibility with roster spots so frustrating as it is he just has to sit tight and wait for his number.

3. Phil Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:19 pm

   I think Happ should be starting over Kendrick personally. Send Kendrick down to AAA and have him develop an outpitch.

4. Tomato Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:30 pm

   I’m getting concerned about Hamels innings lately and his performance is backing up my concerns. Maybe a six man rotation would be best right now because even moyer could use a little more off time.

5. Phil Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:30 pm

   That wouldn’t be a bad idea Tomato.

6. Jeremy Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:42 pm

   Happ could be helpful out of the pen in the 5 remaining games with the Mets. With Delgado, Church, Chavez, Schneider all lefites and Beltran better from the left side the Phils need a 2nd bullpen lefty against the Mets.

   But the Marlins, Cubs, Dodgers and Brewers are predominantly right handed (except Prince Fielder). The irony is playing the Phils is when it helps to have more than one lefty in the pen with Utley and Howard in the lineup and Dobbs and Jenkins off the bench

   I think the most likely role for Happ will be long reliever. He gives Charlie the option of having a quick hook with his pitchers, especially Myers. If Myers has another Mets-esque outing with 4 walks in the first inning Happ can be ready to go 5 or 6 vs trying to patch together a bunch of innings with Condrey, Madsen etc.

7. Paul Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:43 pm

   I really like the idea Tim. Blanton and Myers have both shown recently that they have want it takes to get it done. And as long as they can keep it up (a big if… they need to be more consistent), then stay with what you got, and get Happ involved more in the pen.

8. MA Phanatic Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 pm

   glad to hear that someone else is concerned with Hamels. He’s on pace to throw way more innings than he ever has in his career, and his performances have been alarmingly mediocre lately. His homers allowed have spiked, (and not just at home) and I think he would really benefit from a 6 man rotation.

9. NJ Says:
   August 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 pm

   That is a good idea Tim I just worry his K rate wont be transferable to the big leagues as his stuff looks quite average. Charlie I think has had the wrong attitude saying his worried about putting the guy out there in relief but it would be nice if a 180 can be done and they throw their support behind Happ and talk him up.

   I know it’s a different situation but look at Samadjza (however the hell you spell his name) with the Cubs, they’ve talked the guy up and how they can get him the ball.

   Lets be under no illusions Happ’s a long shot for this rotation next year so a role needs to be found for him now.

10. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    I feel that this is a good problem to have and I hope they handle it properly. He could be a great asset to this bullpen if he adapts well or he could fill the 5th starter role. If Brett Myers struggles at all tonight Happ will replace him next turn in the rotation.

    I said a few weeks ago when they moved happ back to AAA that quality teams always find a way to get quality mlb-reayd pitching onto the big roster and they always find a way for them to contribute.

    Its a big plus that they look like theyre going to keep Happ up here now so now the challenge is to get him to contribute and find a role for him.

11. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    is he really a longshot? what if they move myers in the offseason? if they dont bring in a derek lowe or a ben sheets even, if jamie moyer retires. theres probably going to be a spot in the rotation up for grabs between ja happ and carlos carrasco. well see about that. i wouldnt be so quick to let mlb-ready pitching get away.

12. GM4aDAY Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    i think you need to be the gm bcuz i agree totally…that or i wish stefanski was a baseball guy

13. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    i wish we had a general manager with a baseball acemen equivalent to the hockey acumen of paul holmgren or the basketball acumen of ed stefanski

14. Tomato Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    has cashman extended with the yankees yet? once he got control in new york they developed a good minor league system

15. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    cashman won with a ridiculous payroll ages ago, this is a different era of baseball. this is the farm system era. people like geoff jenkins cost 5mm per year. oliver perez will cost 12mm per year.

    you need a cutting edge person. the angels gm has a great farm system, even though they spend a lot on payroll as well.

16. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    The best news all day…John Maine to the DL, and Billy Wagner appears headed that way after his MRI…priceless.

17. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Our old friend Randy Wolf is helping us so far after three innings (1-0 Astros), but we need some help from Hurdle’s Homos. They’ve only mustered one hit (infield) through six, but they’re only down 2-0 at this point, so they could beat the Fish yet.

18. Tomato Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    cashman is that cutting edge type of guy, when the yankees were winning the world series it was gene michael pulling the strings

    cashman is like theo epstein and mark shapiro, and the yankees farm system has developed into a good one over the last 3 or 4 years while he was allowed total control of baseball operations. He could do the same thing for the Phils in a couple of years.

19. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    The Yankees farm system has improved because they have been reluctant in trading away most of the talented players on their farm. This is exactly the opposite of what some Phils fans wanted us to do at the deadline, which is exactly why most were opposed to it. No doubt, our farm system is much weaker than it was 5-7 years ago, which is why we need to be careful of who we ship out. I think we have a lot of good prospects in A ball presently honing their skills, so hopefully in 2 or 3 years we’ll see the impact.

20. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    well, cashman would be better than amaro/gillick, that i can surely say.

    there are other guys id rather have, like some of beanes disciples and some of the people form the marlins. people who know how to build a farm system and place value correctly on players so that money isnt wasted on junk like adam eaton and geoff jenkins.

21. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Geoff, for once I can agree with you on the Eaton/Jenkins reference. We don’t have an endless supply of $$, so it is crucial that we spend it wisely.

22. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    yeah, that hurts us more than anything. if theyre going to have a “budget” which i think is vastly misreported, but nevertheless, if theyre going to do that you cant urinate money away on junk. and gilick has done that far too much.

23. Richie Allen Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    If Happ contributes even 75% of the expectations I’m reading on all these blogs,he might be another Sandy Koufax…..Is he that good to replace Kendrick already?I also agree with several of you that Hamels isnt Hamels lately,i think he needs a rest,let him skip a turn in the rotation since we have 6 available..what do you guys think of that?

24. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    did you forget what his predecessors did? we can both agree that ed wade was an idiot, but the thing you forget is there’s no such thing as a sure thing in sports. on paper a move can look great, but in reality it is shit (see Garcia, Freddie). on the other hand, a move that looks minor turns out great (see Werth, Jason; Durbin, Chad; or Dobbs, Greg).

    you make is sound like Gillick is the only GM to make stupid signings like Eaton and Jenkins, but you’d be hard pressed to find one GM who has made perfect signings/decisions over their tenures. sure, there have been moves I didn’t like, or ones I thought should have happened that didn’t, but overall Gillick got us to the post-season rather quickly as compared to many other GM’s not only in our system, but others. i think you just like to bash him for whatever reason.

25. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Richie, I don’t think you sit the best pitcher on the team just because he had a couple of bad starts. You put him back out there to work it out and eventually he will. Now, if he’s hurt that’s a different story, but all indications are that he is not.

26. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Sweet! Muts just coughed up another 3 runs in the 4th, Astros lead 4-0 after 4. Bottom 7 in Florida with the Marlins still leading 2-1.

27. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    hes obviously not the only one, see Bavasi, Bill (signing of Carlos Silva: 4 years,44mm), but thats the point. If youre not going to spend 150mm on payroll then 20-30mm worth of bad signings is crippling in many ways.

28. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Yeah, Silva was a ridiculous signing. Unfortunately, when other GM’s do shit like that, it drives the market up, and that’s why we end up paying $24MM for Adam #@#%@#$ Eaton. Although when we signed him I groaned because I was never impressed with him to begin with. Randy Wolf is another – he can be mediocre, but he will never be what he was in his first couple of years. We need to say away. Very far away.

29. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    Rockies tied the Marlins up in the top of the 8th! 1st & 2nd with 1 out, tied 2-2.

30. Gavin Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    I like the idea. I think he’d be better served as the 6th and 7th innging guy rather than 7th and 8th. It also depends on how fast he goes through a lineup. Its tough to pitch out of the pen and go through the order more than once.

    It may be a moot point if Myers pitches like crap tonight or if someone else gets hurt. If Myers cant continue to pitch well then he has to go to the pen IMHO, I’m not saying they would do that, but I think he’d be fine with it to be honest.

31. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Gavin, I think Happ to the pen as the 6th/7th is perfect as well. It’s a nice bridge to the setup & closer, or if we’re trailing, it gives us an opportunity to catch up. This will hopefully lighten the load for Durbin & Romero. Of course this depends on Myers’ progression, which could end up being a moot point. I think he’d be fine in the pen as well.

32. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Rockies just took the lead over the Marlins 3-2 in the top of the 9th. Runners on 1st & 2nd, 1 out….Mets still losing 4-0 bottom 7th.

33. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    see, thats the problem. thats when the rest of the GM’s need to put out a word ot the agents in the league, basically saying that they will not acknowledge that a contract like silvas will set the market. they have to say: that is not a legitimate contract and we are using the previous years market as precedent.

    there needs to be a rollback in these contracts. andruw jones got an INSANE amount of money for no reason. this years wave of FA contracts needs to be handled properly. if oliver perez gets 11-12mm thats DISGRACEFUL. he should get no more than 5-7mm because of his inconsistency.

    teams have to fight back now. the yankees ruined the contract making business for ages. carl pavano, kei igawa, giambi, etc.

34. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    no, the problem is if the owners or GM’s “put the word out” it’s collusion.

35. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Fuentes is trying to blow it in the bottom of the 9th. bases loaded (2 walks) with one out. Rockies 3-2.

36. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    exactly. but you know they did it before.

    they did it with a-rod. they said, no, thats crossing the line. and they black-balled him and make him come crawling back to the yankees on his own.

37. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    i thik this year youll see them cut abck on the nuttiness a bit with these contracts. thats why if ryan howard gets out of control with that hell be shipped out of here so fast…

    the other issue is, i dont want it to become like the nfls system where someone has a bad year and they get cut with no penalty. the nfl is a total joke right now because the way their contracts are handled.

38. R.Mac Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    rox win!

39. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Whew! Barely won that one. Now if the Astros can hold on and the Phils win tongiht, we have a bit of a cushion. Not nearly enough, but it’s a start.

    Geoff, I wholeheartedly agree that salaries are ridiculous. Owners and GM’s just need to be careful to avoid collusion again. They went through a rash of them in the 80’s if you remember. Salaries decreased by about 15% in the mid 80’s, although revenues increased significantly. It’s ridiculous to pay people like Andruw Jones, etc the money they are making due to their performance (or lack thereof), so hopefully all GM’s will all independently recognize this “on their own” instead of with each other and offer less. Look at Lohse last winter – he was more deserving of Silva’s money than Silva was, yet nobody wanted a piece of him. We need more of that, but all it takes is one GM willing to pay whatever price to get that one player that screws everyone else.

40. Richie Allen Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    There must be a god because Billy Wagner is getting it back for all that trash and shit that comes out of his mouth …..
    Remember when he said all that stuff about Burrell?
    I dont think Ive ever been so happy as hearing Wagner blow another game for the mets.

41. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    I always hated that loudmouth Wagner. Fuck him – I hope his MRI shows he tore something and he’s out for the year.

42. R.Mac Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    4-0 stros goin into the top of the ninth….looking good fellas….hopefully this bum valverde can hold it together

43. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    It sure would be nice if he did. 2 1/2 ahead of the Fish and 3 ahead of the Muts with a win tonight…

44. Jamie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Muts lose!

45. nick Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Tim –

    I like it. I think Happ would be great in long relief (see: Madison 2 yrs ago) and it would really help out the entire pitching staff down the stretch. And I agree with one of the previous statements… they definitely need to TALK him up. Let him know how important this role it and that they’re confident he can do it.

    That being said:

    I think the first thing they should let him start a game. Not only to give some extra time off to those who need it, but to see how he does out there. Then make the decision of how we want to use him. It can’t hurt to go ahead and let every one take a breather now… there are only 8 weeks of baseball left and at this point EVERY game counts. Now is the time to let everyone know what their job is and tell them to starting WINNING BALL GAMES.

46. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Yeah it could be useful to give him a start soon (assuming he isnt forced into taking myers’ spot again in an emergency situation) to give everyone an extra day of rest. some people might like that, and some might not. depends.

47. Georgie Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    I think Happ will be in the starting rotation soon for one reason or another-let’s see how Myers does tonite, he’s been looking really wild-eyed since he came back up, not sure what that means. And hasn’t Hamels already pitched more innings than ever before in his career? I’m not sure he’s enough of a stud to go 8 innings the rest of the season, I’m thinking maybe he does need a rest, or bring him out earlier in the game, maybe no more than 6 innings, whether he likes it or not.
    Oh, and regarding the salary thing, when you have a team like the Yankees that can generate as much revenue as they do, they will always be willing to overpay for whatever they need, imo. I was reading about their new park, they will have 9000+ parking spaces at 20 bucks a pop, multply by home games, that’s over 11 mil just in parking lot rev.

48. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    random thought: would anybody trade jimmy rollins for dice-k? not necessarily straight up. boston needs a shortstop in the offseason, and they have a plethora of pitching and the new gm would ask for a number 2 type guy in all likelihood. just wondering…

49. GM4aDAY Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    is there ANY chance at all that they will actually interview guys for the gm spot or is amaro or arbuckle a given???? i sure hope not..change is needed…that and the 3 year contract rule for fa pitching..that lands us miltons,liebers and eatons.

50. Joey Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    I think Haap could get plenty of work in the bullpen to consider him not rotting if you use him in Condreys role AND as a left handed specialist. I think Kendrick is too steady to take out and our only real shot at getting anywhere is if myers turns the ship around so we have nothing to lose by throwing him to the wolves. so JA really needs to wait for Blanton to suck enough to get yanked.

51. Geoff Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    theyll interview bad candidates to make us want them to pick amaro. by comparison amaro will look like gold but if they brought in a real slick baseball man theyd be way better off

52. Zach Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 12:49 am

    I know it would be hard for myers to go back to the pen already, but part of that theory does make sense. After throwing 100 warm-up pitches in the all-star game (which is a joke) lights out lidge has been complaining about that arm. Now i know he has been amazing so far this year but tonight got a little close against the cards. If we put myers back and let him work his way into the set-up role he gives us insurance as he was a proven closer lat year if lidge needs some well earned time off. it also allows durbin to move back to his old role and we can use him for the long innings when we need him. and most of all it gives us a new quality starter in the rotation in happ. but most of all it gives us a back-up closer which we may need down the stretch (but hopefully not)…

53. Phil Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 12:54 am

    Um, when did Lidge complain about his arm? I guarantee you they would not be using him if his arm hurt.

54. August MMLBRC: Philadelphia Phillies « Them’s Good Eaton: Philly/New York sports with a “PC twist” Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    [...] help on that front.  Who knows how this is going to work out — Happ’s role is still undefined, and Walrond is a journeyman who’s numbers don’t exactly scream LOOGY (.227 BAA [...]

55. J-Man Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Move Kendrick out of the rotation and see how things can go from there.

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