Phillies Nation

66 Responses to “Phils Run Out Of Steam In 3-2 Loss”

1. Scheity Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 12:28 am

   Something like this had to happen – it just can’t happen again.

   All of a sudden, we’re looking at a situation in which the Mets can pseudo-tie us tomorrow night with a win and a Phils loss. Yeah, they’re 1.5 behind, but if they come to a half game back and then come back to win that game in hand, they’ll take the division due the head-to-head record.

   Meanwhile, the Brewahhhs have Sabathia going on Thursday, which pretty much guarantees a win.

   We’re in this position, the driver’s seat, because we caught fire at the right time. But this is a team, as we’ve seen all year, that can ice over just as quickly as it can heat up.

   Thursday, at the risk of sounding alarmist, is a must-win. If we don’t come through, I think we lose a ton of wind in our sails and head into a series against a team, the Natties, that’s given us shit-fits this year.

   Yeah, we’re in the driver’s seat. But is there anything more uncomfortable, more nerve-frying and more unsettling for a Philadelphia fan than that? Let’s go Brett. Let’s go, lineup.

2. Jim Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 12:42 am

   Scheity, the mets will not win the divison by default if tie them at the end of the year. The nfl doeshead to head for tie breakers, MLB does not. IF we tie, we will play a one game playoff, and because we won the coin flip, it will be in philly. so cheer up

3. J-Man Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 12:50 am

   I think we need to bring Victorino back up to the #2 spot because Werths hit a slump and hasn’t been getting on base.

4. GOOSEBUMPS Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 1:22 am

   we needed to get this one of our system. its full speed ahead from here on out!

5. James Beale Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 4:41 am

   Breath deep everyone, this team is still 8-2 over their last ten, still has the easiest end of the season, and still is in the drivers seat.

6. Mark Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 5:08 am

   Wednesday game is. Tim says, a must-win game for the Phils and Myers needs a career outing.

7. James Beale Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 5:51 am

   @Jim. I’m almost positive that those tiebreakers were in the case of a three-way tie, or a tie for first in the East where the loser would not make the playoffs. If the Mets tie the Phils and both are above the Crew the Phils are the WC.

   Tim, can you confirm that?

8. VA Steve Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 7:07 am

   Tonight is the key, a MUST win game. When we win tonight, it relieves pressure against the Nats series, but more importantly, puts pressure on the Mets and Brewers. I feel good with Myers, just needs his swagger and recent domination.

9. BaseballJunkie Says:
   September 24th, 2008 at 7:21 am

   James-

   You are correct. In the case of a Mets/Phils tie in which both make the playoffs, the Mets win the division based on head to head with the Phils getting the WC. If for some reason the Brew crew passes one of the teams, then the playoff between the Mets/Phils would happen at CBP to determine the divisional champ.

10. Joey Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 7:21 am

    Id disagree that Hamels looked off. He had that throwing error again but he rebounded better than he did when it happened against StLouis. A lot of Atlantas hits were not hit very hard. He and the bullpen held a stellar lineup to 3 runs. You have to do better than 2 against Atlanta pitching.

11. rk Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 7:30 am

    bottom line is once again Hamels did not get the run support he deserves. He should have been a 20 game winner this year…

12. NC Jason Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 7:37 am

    I listened to the game and when the Phillies announcers are saying “Hamels does not have it tonight” and that his breaking ball was not sharp that is not a good sign. The balls that were hit off of him were rockets! The first batter barley missed a HR, another went out to 398 sign, another that Werth caught was a missile. For the first 4 innings two runners were always on base! He did not get run support – true. But he was not the pitcher that has thrown a shut-out either. The offense is to blame and so is Hamels.

    flush this game and move on – can not have a hangover effect

13. Tim Malcolm Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 7:55 am

    If the Phils and Mets both make the playoffs and are tied, the Mets get the East. No additional games.

    But if the Phils and Mets are tied and the Brewers have the Wild Card, we host the Mets in the one-game playoff for the East.

14. RiVLez Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 8:30 am

    “The Mets won a coin toss against the Brewers today to determine home-field advantage for a potential one-game wild card playoff between the two teams.

    On September 12th, the Mets lost a coin flip against the Phillies to determine home-field advantage if a one-game playoff is needed to determine the NL East champion.

    You win some, you lose some.

    To clarify, if the Mets and Phillies tie for first place and have better records than the Brewers, the Mets will be the East champions based on their 11-7 record against the Phillies.”

    Thanks Tim.

15. rk Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 8:32 am

    Lets just hope the boys can take care of business and coin flips and 1 game playoffs do not matter.

16. Mikeb Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    It’s over…Phils are done. This is the beginning of the end.

    Mets have a 1 game winning streak and are poised to take the next 2 against Meatball hurlers Zambrano and Dempster. What chance does philly have when the mets have a cupcake schedule. Consiidering we finish off the year vs the powerhouse Nats

17. Ben Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Tonight is a big game for the Phils. I will be there at Citizens Bank Park rooting them on for the win. Need to get to the Atlanta pitchers early and put the pressure on. The Phillies can’t win them all, just need to win the series. Myers will be solid tonight after his last outing which was the worst of his career.

18. brian Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    We gotta get this one tonight. I’ve been really surprised at the number of empty seats in the park the last 2 nights.

19. Buffalophilsfan Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Everything is fine Nation … no need to panic. This team seems to always respond positively. While Hamels did not “have great stuff” last night he did pitch 7 effective innings and gave up just 2 ER. Bottom line, we have to score more than 2 ourselves. It’s time to circle the wagons and trot Myers out there tongiht with the swagger and confidence that has him pitching the best baseball of his career (minus that last poor start).

    I think it is crucial to lock up the division BEFORE Sunday so Hamels can skip that start and have over 1 week rest heaind into the NLDS next Wednesday. That would set up the rotation perfectly of Hamels -1; Myers -2; Moyer -3; Blanton -4; and back with Hamels for game 5. All pitching on normal rest. We should root for the Mets and Brewers to tie for the WC. With Sabathia pitching tomorrow night, they would most likely bring him back for Monday’s 1 game playoff on short rest. That would leave him unavailable for the NLDS until the weekend and we would only see him 1x in a 5-game series. As for the Muts, bring them on and I don’t care who is throwing gas on the fire for them!!

20. OZ Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 9:44 am

    if our ownership doesn’t spend money in the off-season, will the Fed bail us out?

21. Griffin Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    I want to get this thing clinched as soon as possible and throw Adam Eaton on Sunday to set up our playoff rotation.

    Hard to get mad at the Phils for losing by 1 run after winning 10 of 11.

22. Gabriel Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 10:01 am

    i’m at that sunday game and would be ecstatic to see the 8 million dollar man (eaton) serving up balls of meat in a game that taguchi/golson/bruntlett start the outfield… this of course would mean that we clinched already…
    btw how does vic get the jeltz??? shouldn’t pat ‘the little league baserunning mistake’ get it for destroying the rally with his juvenile mistake?
    also hamels is taking shit for ANOTHER strong outing????????
    he is now 14-10 with a staggering 3.09 ERA… give the guy 4 runs… only 4 runs and he wins 20+ for you all year… one of the leagues best and because our lineup refuses to show up for him everyone blames hollywood. that is possibly the most backwards mentality since the invention of the square wheel. give the guy a freakin break, also give the guy 4 runs and he’ll give you 20+ wins.

23. Griffin Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    I agree Gabriel, Hamels gave up as made earned runs as Santana last night, yet Hamels is the goat and Santana is the hero.

    Hamels is a top 10-12 pitcher in baseball, the offense didn’t show up last night.

24. RiVLez Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 10:37 am

    I think it’s hilarious that you guys are getting on Hamels after last night. WTF more do you want?? He goes and pitches 7 very strong innings and gives up only 2 runs and it’s his fault??!?!? You should be winning 8 out of 10 of those kind of games. Sh*t happens what you going to do?

25. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    I see a 3-1 finish, and that will make it tough to fall out of the playoffs..

    Hamels has been the ACE all year, and will continue to be the ACE of this staff as long as he wears this uniform.. Myers and Moyer to continue their great 2nd-halves as well, and lets lock this thing up before Sunday!

26. RiVLez Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 10:50 am

    This kind of stuff happens to good pitchers sometimes, look at this:

    Brandon Webb
    W-L 22-7 ERA 3.24 K 176 Walks 63 WHIP 1.20

    Johan Santana
    W-L 15-7 ERA 2.64 K 197 Walks 60 WHIP 1.17

    Cole Hamels
    W-L 14-10 ERA 3.09 K 196 Walks 53 WHIP 1.08

    It just comes down to the offense obviously. Santana and Hamels are easily better than Brandon Webb when it comes to actualy #’s and not wins. Actually this is with Webb pitching 12 less innings than both Santana and Hamels. The sad part of it is that either of them probably will get little to no recognition for the NL Cy Young.

27. Griffin Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 10:55 am

    it’s a shame that the “old-time” baseball writers look at Wins for starting pitchers as the barometer for success. Looking at the numbers that RiVLez just posted, it’s a shame that Webb will win the Cy Young, just because he got better run support. Lincecum, Santana and Hamels all had better seasons.

28. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    I think Lincecum will win it to be honest… these guys are going to cancel each other out.. and if the Phillies win the East.. and Lidge finishes strong.. he’ll be in the top3 in votes I think

29. RiVLez Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Me personally I don’t look at wins. It’s not the pitchers fault for pitching so well and the offense not clicking. You know if Santana and Hamels had 20 wins they would easily be top of the list since there numbers are much better. Instead you never hear ANYTHING about Hamels and Santana on Baseball Tonight or whatever.

30. Griffin Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    I just don’t get why people look at pitcher’s wins as a viable stat. If a pitcher goes 8 innings 1 run and loses 1-0, he doesn’t get a win. If another pitcher goes 5 innings, 4 runs but gets good run support, he gets a win. How are those two performances comparable?
    Wins is a lazy stat, dig a little deeper and look at ERA, WHIP and K’s, which show dominance.

31. RiVLez Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Don M: Lincecum has lost his last 2 starts and is now 17-5 and Santana has taken over the best ERA in the NL. I think that hurt him a little bit and has pushed Webb a little ahead. I do think that if Santana had to pitch a do or die game on Sunday and absolutely dominated that he would see some serious consideration.

32. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    Maybe they’ll argue that Webb, Santana, Sabathia pitched in more “BIG” games… I just think that Lincecum’s 2nd ERA, 1st in Ks, and 2nd in Wins is impressive for such a young guy.. with NO offense behind him at all

33. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Look at Hamels’ numbers as they rank in all of MLB.. 2nd in WHIP, 10th in ERA, tied 4th in Batting Average Against, 10th in Ks.. kid is going to be AWESOME for years to come

34. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 11:39 am

    Remember people were arguing earlier in the year that other teams have #3 pitchers as good as Hamels… yea, no they don’t.

    I’d definitely put him in the top10 overall now.. CC Sabathia probably the best pitcher in the game in my mind.. with LOTS of guys a close 2nd

35. RiVLez Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 11:50 am

    The sad part for the Mets is that out of the 29 blown saves even if they won half of those games. We would be talking about the playoffs not just making it.

36. Griffin Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    off the top of my head: Santana, sabathia, halladay, lincecum, peavy, webb, hamels, lackey….
    I’d put those guys ahead of Zambrano, Oswalt, Sheets, Cliff Lee, etc.

    So that means Cole is a top 10 pitcher.

37. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    I was at the game last night, and it was GREAT to see the big man get a triple..I always enjoy watching that.

    But the bottom line is that Jason Donald would have made that play in the first inning last night that Jimmy Rollins didnt make that let the first run in. Yes, thats right. You can mark that down.

    I like the idea of werth hitting 3rd and utley hitting second…our old buddy GIDP showed once again why hes a liability at the palte despite his defensive abilities.

    Cole Hamels is a number two at this early stage of his career, period. He did a decent job. But this is when you need a dominator.

38. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Jason Donald’s 17-18 errors at the AA-level really seem to make you confident in his ability to perform at the big league level… not sure where you get that, but thats fine..

    Ruiz has been awesome in the 2nd half, so is there really a need to mention his lack of hitting last night??

    Going 7 innings and giving up 3 runs, 2 earned, …thats what you ask from your pitchers at this point. Any quality start is a job well done by this pitching staff, and asking for anything more than that is being greedy

39. RiVLez Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    Geoff how was he not dominant in letting up 2 runs only? I would call that dominant. Last night was a better performance then what his seasons stats show. 7 IP w/ 2 ER is a 2.57 ERA compared to his 3.09 ERA for the season.

40. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Hamels would be the ace on.. the Phillies, Braves, Marlins, and Nats. The Cardinals, Pirates, Astros, and Reds (Milwaukee without Sabathia). The Dodgers, and Rockies.

    (Give Zambrano the nod just for the hell of it.. Santana.. Webb/Harden, Lincecum, Peavy).

    In the AL: The Rays, Orioles, and Yankees. White Sox, Twins, Tigers, Royals. A’s, Rangers, and Mariners.

    Indians? (Cliff Lee was in AAA last year, great this year..who knows what next year holds)

41. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    and seriously… that play in the 1st inning.. What in the hell makes you think that Jason Donald (less range, worse overall defensively) makes that play that Rollins can’t reach ???

    dont start arguements just for the hell of it, thats not that cool

42. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    its obvious that jason donald would make that play. hamels would not be an ace on the yankees with a healthy chien ming wang at his current level of ability, hed also not be an ace with a healthy felix hernandez. He may not even be an ace on the Rays with Scott Kazmir, though it depends on the manager’s preference. Hes not an ace with the Reds with a healthy Aaron Harang. hes not an ace on the indians as long as cliiff lee still has a deal with the devil.

    youre getting confsed. im not saying he never will be an ace. hes not just quite there yet. and the bottom line is that after last night, again, im even more convinced that jimmy rollins has got to go, again, period.

43. RiVLez Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    The one thing I can agree with Geoff on is that he might not be an ace because he does struggle in big game situations.

44. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    you’re a nerd.. I seriously TRY, and TRY, and TRY to have you think about the things you say.. and you back up your ridiculous posts with explanations like “Its obvious that Jason Donald would make that play” … and then say how Aaron Harang and Chien Ming Wang are better than Hamels.. it become more obvious by the day that you don’t know your ass from your elbow, and you know even less about baseball.

    Hamels Career: 3.43 ERA 1.14 WHIP, .233 Batting Avg Against.

    Harang: 4.24 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, .268 BAA
    Wang: 3.79 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, .265 BAA
    Kazmir: 3.58 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, .241 BAA
    King Felix: 3.78, 1.31 WHIP, .258 BAA

    Cliff Lee: 4.15 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, .261 BAA (AL Cy Young this year…)

45. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    He struggles in some big game situations because he’s 24 years old… at the Mets was tough.. but id say his past 3 starts were also BIG games, and he did very well in them.. a “must win” against the Brewers included.

    his last three starts, 6.1 IP, 6.0 IP, 7.0 IP…only 2 Earned Runs allowed in each.

46. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Who said they were better? I just said they might get picked as the ace of him by other managers. You get all carried away with this.

    hamels is very good, very efficient no doubt about it…but not reallty in big games. in big games, as many others have mentioned before, he tends to shrink up a bit. thats not an ace. an ace thrives in the spotlight. PERIOD. cole hamels kind of does and then kind of doesnt. im sure hell be fine in two years but right not hes a little shaky WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON, thats all were saying here….seriously, I could strike out 8 or 9 batters and go 8 innings against the nationals. im completely serious about that too.

    Jimmy Rollins is more concerned with changing his walkup music once every other homestsand than he has been with getting on base until liek two weeks ago. now, the current walkup music isnt bad. but usually its kind of bad.

    meanwhile, jayson werth just looks so confident out there. he has finally hit his stride and become a solid everyday player. Im happy for him, thats another spot in the lineup we dont have to worry about all that much anymore.

47. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    You said they were better, “hamels would not be an ace on the yankees with a healthy chien ming wang at his current level of ability, hed also not be an ace with a healthy felix hernandez. ”

    …unless you mean that those managers would have a worse pitcher as their ACE..

    No need to comment on J-Rolls solid defense or baserunning this season… they don’t help the team win at all..

48. Buffalophilsfan Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    Geoff I enjoy reading your posts, but you are NOT striking out 8 Nationals in 8 innings of work. You line vs. Washington would be:

    0 IP, 16 R, 16 ER, 12 H, 4 BB, O K

    And I’m completely serious about THAT!!

49. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    im all seriousness, i could get through 5 innings allowing less than 5 runs against the nationals. thatd be an easy target to reach. the nats are one of the worst teams ive ever SEEN.

50. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    like i said before, j-roll isnt special to me.

    i could maybe even get through 6 providing JROLL DOESNT COMMIT ANY ERRORS BEHIND ME!!!!!!!!!!!

51. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    i did not say they were better, i said theyd be chosen as the aces thats all. thats not the same statement….

52. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Ass + Clown = ASSCLOWN

53. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    and because youve lost you now revert back to third grade tactics….typical.

54. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    dude read what you wrote… that Wang, Hernandez, and Harang would be the ACES of thier teams… Kazmir would depend on the manager… and Depends on what Lee does next year, …

    im guessing this is just a difference between “what you wrote” and “what you meant”… but when arguing that Hamels as an ACE is “not quite there yet”??? its what you wrote that matters..

    He would be the #1 pitcher for MOST of the teams in baseball.. and deservedly so. But in your eyes, you’d be the Phillies #2 pitcher, and battling Hamels for the top spot..

55. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    again, dont worry, they should make the playoffs, just no more j-roll.

56. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    actually..if all we can expect out of our number 2 is that they get through 6 innings giving up less than 5 runs against the nationals, than we are the pittsburgh pirates.

57. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    i would even consider SITTING J-ROLL in the playoffs. maybe you throw in eric bruntlett or tad iguchi in there. im ok with that. just no j-face in there. i want him to sit there and do nothing. jason donald comes up next year and we trade j-hole to toronto along with kendrick and a bucket of fritos for roy halladay.

58. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    its pretty obvious you don’t know as much as you think you do… and then you create random arguements just for the sake of it… I call you out on them, and then you back-track and say that you

    A) Didn’t say whatever you said, or B) Didn’t mean whatever you said..

    You constantly try to come up with reasons for players not being good, when really you can’t ever come up with anything legit.. so you talk about them “ruining the clubhouse” etc… and then make up random things about the trainers suck too, and their bench isn’t deep enough for you, and whatever else..

    Not quite sure which arguement I “lost” to you, but let me know when you get the chance.

    Thanks, Don

59. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    The part that sucks the most, is that Im not sure if you’re trying to funny… or you’re just that hard-headed/stupid that you make yourself believe this stuff.

    I’d like to just think you’re trying to be funny when you say this stuff.. and if thats the case, try harder

60. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    tahts right…if i say i didnt say it, and you dont agree, then i didnt say it. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?!?! IT MEANS WHAT I SAY IT MEANS AND IF IT TURNS OUT TO BE WRONG THEN IT NEVER HAPPENED, YOU GOT THAT?!?!

61. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    actually no.. I can’t comprehend that little mini-rant either

62. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    “YOU SEE, YOURE NOT INVOLVED IN THIS, YOU SIT THERE AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!”

    Thats what henry paulson said to the congress when he met with them the other day…

63. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    and because you’ve lost you know revert back to….. 70 year old-men’s political rants… typical

64. Geoff Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    i didnt say i agreed with it…the bottom line is can they hit good pitching when they get into the playoffs?

    if they cant make the playoffs, somehow, then you wont want to hear what i have to say about them. so were just going to say that theyll make the playoffs.

65. Don M Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    if they can’t make the playoffs, we’ve all heard 18,486 times what you would do differently..

    you should be the GM when Gillick leaves.. we’d have no Rollins, Myers, Moyer, Howard, Ruiz, etc… we’d be in good shape

66. Georgie Says:
    September 24th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    I am laughing so hard I can hardly see to type, should have read this earlier in the day for a quick mood elevator.

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