Offense Offered No Chance For Win
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Fri, October 24, 2008 10:29 AM
Last night left a bad taste in your mouth, the taste that lingers for a couple days until one day you realize it’s gone and say to yourself, “Oh, the Phils lost the World Series. Crap.”
The offense was just brutal, stranding dozens of runners on base and coming up wildly short in every situation. Charlie Manuel:
“That might be one of our sloppiest games all year. I’m concerned about us hitting with guys on base, because it looks like at times we might be trying a little too hard. But we can fix that.”
For the most part, I saw guys trying to do everything with one swing. They were waving at the ball as if Tropicana Field’s fence was 10 feet away. Jayson Werth was trying to pull pitches very low and inside; Pat Burrell was trying to find low junk; Ryan Howard was guessing on the low-away stuff. Then there’s Jimmy Rollins, who just plain sucked.
I am confident that the Phils can change this. They have before, and they have to now. This isn’t mid-June, where they can stir around for a week and wait for the offense to return. This is late October, the final five games of the season, the biggest stage in the game. Something tells me they’ll sense the moment and attack correctly.
But first thing’s first — Manuel has to make some changes. Move Victorino back to the two-hole. For good. Don’t be afraid to throw a guy like Matt Stairs out there in a big RBI situation. Play to win. Don’t play to keep things close.
As I wrote yesterday, the conservative approach worked in game one because both teams were jumpy. But in game two, the Rays played assured baseball — James Shields, while not as good as his ridiculous nickname may suggest — worked out of jams with confidence. Their offense worked around the kinks with aggression and speed. The Phils just had stars in their eyes. No situational hitting, no small ball, no chance.
52 Responses to “Offense Offered No Chance For Win”
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October 24th, 2008 at 10:39 am
I think that 6 day layoff took had an effect on this team. They got a couple games in now and I think starting tomorrow night the situational hitting wakes up. This offense is way too good to struggle on the biggest stage of them all.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:45 am
I hope we don’t look back at this game the way we look back at game 4 in 1993. That game was sloppy relief pitching and we had so many chances to win, just like last night. Very frustrating and unless we win this series, it’ll be a game I never, ever forget.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:50 am
If it rains on Saturda night and we get pushed back to Sunday, I really hope Hamels starts Game 4 and Myers Game 5. Get them both starting at home with the home crowd.
I just don’t want to see Blanton starting at home. I have bad feelings since the Rays have a good history off of him.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:59 am
As much as i think rain on Saturday will help our pitching match ups that won’t mean a thing if our offense continues to play like this. I’m hoping for no rain out and a return to just a little clutch hitting.
How many times were the Rays giving us a run on a ground ball last night at least 3 that I can remember and I know Werth struck out 2 of those times. Unacceptable. As bad as Jimmy was last night I think Werth was worse.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:00 am
A special shoutout to Shane Victorino, who contributed one of my biggest pet peeves in baseball: Swinging at the first pitch after the last batter works a walk. He popped one out in foul territory with two on base.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:00 am
They also need to put some more pressure on the Rays like in game 1. Dont wait for the hit make something happen, put runners in motion bunt make them think out there.
What are everyone’s thoughts about the possible rainout? I agree with Mike I am in favor of the rain and run Hamels out in game 4 either up 2-1 or down 2-1 and bring Myers back for what could be the clincher at home in 5!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 11:01 am
This is not the 1993 team. People need to really calm down. We’ll be okay at home. It’s one game. It’s now a best of 5, and we have home field for the next three. Negative thinking and discussing all the bad things that could happen does nothing. Think of the positive things that could happen.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:02 am
If game 3 gets rained out, the home game will get pushed back one day and the teams will lose the day off on Tuesday. So Hamels can only pitch one more game regardless.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I’m not saying I hope for a rainout. But what I don’t want is for them to try to play it and then there are rain delays and the game becomes a toss up because of it.
But if there is one, I just feel that our best chances of getting wins would be having Hamels and Myers starting at home. They thrive off of this stuff. And that would make Hamels available for Game 7 if needed, I believe.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:14 am
The most frustrating game I’ve watched since game 4 in 1993. (Nowhere near as bad as that one though.)
We need to remember this good piece of news though… they split in Tampa.
But man, just a couple of hits in key situations last night and it could have been a Phils win.
One thing for sure, I am not overly impressed by the first two Rays starters. Solid, but not as great so far as everyone has said.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Here’s how a rainout Saturday would shake out, if we go with Hamels Monday:
Sun @ Philly: Moyer
Mon @ Philly: Hamels (4-days rest)
Tue @ Philly: Myers (4-days rest)
Wed @ Tampa: Blanton
Thurs @ Tampa: Moyer (4-days rest)
It wouldn’t matter, as you can see. They’re not pushing games back. So I’d keep regular rotation, with Hamels going game five.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:22 am
If Moyer pitches Sunday, he will be on short rest for game 7
October 24th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I think you go moyer blanton hamels myers and see whos in shape for game 7 if tehre is one. this could be a long series but id liek for the phillies to get the sweep at home and end it early. i think theyre capable of doing that as i think the offense will awaken once they come back home.
interestingly…ive been reading up on some of the japanese starting pitchers available as free agents and I feel the phillies could add one of them at a bargain price in free agency and they can turn out to be a nice 3rd starter. thatd help…but ill discuss that after the WS ends.
Until then, I feel that the Phillies will get by in game 3 with one last great effort from jamie moyer. blanton will battle in game 4 and theyll squeeze out a win, and then hamels will be dominant again in game 5.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Agreed Paul and did you really think that David Price was AWESOME like he is made out to be. I mean, I saw him being absolutely hittable.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:28 am
If I have seen one thing in this series so far, it is that Tampa is VERY beatable. Phils lost this one on their own. I need another crack at “Big game” James and his B-rate stuff. Corndog.
If the Phils can’t break their bats out when they need them, then well, thats just going to be how it is I guess and we win maybe one more. I loved Kruk and his “pathetic AB” analysis, cause thats just what it was.
That would have been a good game to get, but the milk has been spilled. Quit the crying, quit the pressing and get on this.
Prediction: Phils did pull together 9 hits, so the bats aren’t completely asleep. Very indicative of what everyone already knows, that their hitters are pressing. Garza be damned, get out those ducks, and Phils break the silence in Game 3, and Moyer pulls the W.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Win the next game with better managing and clutch hitting. Charlie is playing conservative ball like you mentioned Tim, after the first game, and he still persists with the wrong strategy for a short series. He cannot use the regular season as a reference for how he should treat his players. The series is a microcosm of the regular season and therefore he has to act quickly. Pull Dobbs after his second at-bat when it was obvious that he had was having first World Series jitters and put in Jenkings. Call for a pitch out when the Ray’s were obviously trying to squeeze bunt, and maybe catch the Ray’s running who was at least three steps away from the bag. I know you can’t argue balls and strikes but argue anyway when it’s necessary. He could have had the umpires explain why the first base umpire gave an un-requested strikeout call, and the home base umpire called strikeout and reverse his decision. If he was thrown out, he might have fired up some of the players who need it. Don’t hesitate to pull Feliz, in the later innings, with men on for Stairs, especially if it’s a hard throwing pitcher. Take advantage of a Victorino’s hot bat and move him up in the lineup, especially with all the Ray left-handed pitchers. Move Victorino to first or second position for game three. Put Jimmy in the sixth position. Make sure your team and coaches show respect for the Ray’s quality outfielders, because the right and left fielders play their position like a centerfielder which they use to be. Don’t steal on shallow fly balls. Keep aware of a lead from the bag on fly balls. The good news is Charlie didn’t lose the game but he could have possibly won it. In defense of Charlie, there is no doubt that a few of the Phillies blew game two by not being clutch. The good news is that they are hitting Ray’s pitching and just need to get over their RISP drought.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Oh, yeah, 3-days rest. Oops. So really, it would screw up everything.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:30 am
just a note, if you pinch hit for the DH, you lose the DH, so the pitcher has to hit the next time that spot in the lineup comes around. So taking out Dobbs yesterday after 2 ABs was not an option. They actually did use Bruntlett yesterday in the 9th, but if that spot in the lineup came around again, the Phillies pitcher would have to hit. Stupid DH rule.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Tim, the whole Victorino thing peeved me too. I was screaming at my co-workers when he did that. Not only is it bad baseball to swing at the first pitch offered by a guy who just issued a walk, but I think Victorino is in one of his “home run hitter” phases. You know the ones…after he hits a couple “by accident” (simply hitting the ball well and making good contact), he all of a sudden thinks he’s Barry Bonds. Then he ends up popping up to shallow right for about a week, week and a half before he starts hitting liners again. I think I’m seeing him in the midst of another one of those streaks, and he needs to knock it the hell off before I have a stroke!
October 24th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Look, will someone PLEASE tap JRoll on the shoulder and WAKE HIM UP. I almost puked last night when it showed him dozing off in the 8th inning … sitting on the bench pouting. The series has started Jimmy. We need you now!!
And I am sick of hearing about BJ Upton. That guy is a dog who only plays when he wants to. He has hit into 3 DP’s and not once has he buseted it out of the box. This is the World Series and all eyes are on you. Maybe Upton and JRoll could play together next season and you could have two dogs at the top of the lineup!!
October 24th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Everyone is harping on the inability to score runners. This has proven to be a thorn in the side of this nucelus, especially under Bowa. They can go through long stretches of the season in this slump. They even hit a slump similar in June. And the weather is not going to be conducive to offensive baseball. It will be cold, windy and rainy. The Phillies need to find the right approach to plate discipline in Philly. And the Phils pitchers need to be aggressive and use the weather factor against Tampa.
Tampa is a solid club but they are not the 1998 Yankees. CB will be rocking and Tampa hasn’t really experienced a hostile crowd like they will in Philly. We need to use that to our advantage too.
Everyone talks about how great Garza is, which he deserves, but he is their Brett Myers; extremely prone to emotional outbursts. Remember the shouting match he got in with Navarro on the mound in Texas earlier this year? The CB crowd better get under his skin because he can be rattled.
Again, Phils split in TB which is fine but they need to relax and now apply pressure to TB at home!
October 24th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I really hope they don’t push the game back tommorow. Tuesdays going to be in the 30’s. This isn’t football and no ones going to hit in that type of weather. I don’t want to lose the advantagge of hamels pitching because it is cold out.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:55 am
They were saying on csn that if there’s a fairly good chance of rain Sat they will just call the game off, too much of a chance of ruining the starting rotations of both teams. If there would be lengthy rain delays, Moyer would no doubt have to be pulled early, then what?
But the 30’s on Tuesday? That is sure as hell not baseball weather.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:55 am
*I THINK* .. that you can replace your DH with another DH, and that is fine.. you lose a your DH when you put him into the game as a defensive replacement… if you do that, the pitcher than has to bat.
But i THINK.. that you can change the DH with another player, who then assumes only the DH position.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:58 am
A coworker just told me that if there is a rainout, we lose the off day then next week, since Games 6 and 7 won’t be pushed back either.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I’m getting tired of all the talk of David Price as a “secret weapon.” They’re trying to manufacture a story here that he’s a big revelation like F-Rod was a few years back. You know what? Stop kissing his a** – he gave up two runs last night and nearly blew the game for the Rays. He’s good and has a ton of potential, but he’s not unhittable. I don’t know what was more frustrating last night – the Phillies awful hitting or all the talk about how phenomenal Price is.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
I THINK you are right Don. You can certainly replace the DH with a pinch hitter. Why would the rules tie the hands of a manager by forcing to play one guy at DH the entire game. What if he gets hurt?? Is the pitcher forced to hit then?? You only loose your DH if you choose to enter him into the field on defense. Cholly could have PH for Dobbs last night if he wished … and judging by Dobbs’ swings he probably should have. Shoot, we probably should have had Hamels and Myers hit anyway looking at the production we got from our DH’s.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
There’s so much venom in this forum lately. We lost one game. Big deal. It’s a 1-1 split. Maybe some of you guys need a rubber ducky too?
Lets win this in CBP! Phils in phive!
October 24th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
my bad, you guys are right about the DH. You can pinch hit for the DH with a bench player and not lose the DH, but if the original DH moves to the field, you lose the DH.
So yes, pinch hitting for Dobbs yesterday with Jenkins/Stairs would not have resulted in losing the DH.
My bad on that one, this American League nonsense is confusing.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
DH Rule sucks to begin with… I still don’t understand what happens if you move a DH to the field.. because the MLB rules make it sound like you can just double-switch those spots and then the pitcher wouldn’t have to bat.
But nobody was sure when I asked about that before..
I said Phillies in 6 before the series, and I still think they do it.. taking 2 of 3 at home shouldn’t be out of the questions, which gives us a 3-2 lead heading back to Tampa/St. Pete or wherever the hell they play
October 24th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Manny, I think it’s just the fact that we all want them to win so badly, and any kind of letdown, like last night, puts us on edge (some moreso than others, like me). My dad would win a contest for the most negative fan in Philly, his friends don’t even like to talk about sports with him anymore, but I still hear it everyday, I’m afraid some of it has rubbed off on me.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Griffin, they should have taken both games….
October 24th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Big deal, Manny????!!!! What?????!!!!!! What the hell do you expect?? How can you actually say BIG DEAL, dude? This IS a big deal and if the PHillies lose this series 4-3 what are you going to say then? I don’ think they will but they need every victory they can right now and last night and all it’s problems WERE a BIG DEAL!!
October 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
they COULD have taken both games…
Shields was the player of the game because our offense choked.. he didn’t impress me that much.. Garza is their best pitcher this postseason, but wait until he gets a load of the Phillies Phaithful in Game #3.. .
October 24th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
And, Manny don’t get me wrong. I, like most of us, am ok with a split. I never thought that we would come home 2-0. But we could have and shoould have had last night’s game..And if last night’s issues remain we are in trouble.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
I knowwww…. I totally understand that Chuck. But it’s over. We cannot get obsessed on last night’s game. We have to focus on the next one. That’s it.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Fair enough, Manny. Man, this Series has a complete chokehold on my entire life right now. I need to pull it together!!
October 24th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Oh, and just so I’m on record with this as well……the DH sucks!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I think that my fiancee is starting to become upset with the fact that my entire life is revolving around the Phillies. . . she must feel like the ugly step-child.. eventhough she’s hot to trot
October 24th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
This is the reason you need Manny Ramirez clutch hitter. He would be like when we couldn’t get to the series in the late seventies. Even with schmidt and co. we get rose who is clutch and shows us how to win.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
i still cant believe our offense consisted of Ruiz and Buttlett. Who would have guessed?
October 24th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Not just because our DH has done much.. but wasn’t it great seeing the managers trying to out-guess the other in the NLDS and NLCS.. in terms of pitchers, pinch hitters, defensive replacements, pinch runners, etc… all the things that make baseball awesome are cut back due to the DH.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Rose played hard…
October 24th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
WEATHER UPDATE for Saturday:
8pm Rain / Thunder
Chance of precipitation: 100%
9pm Rain / Thunder
Chance of precipitation: 70%
10pm Mostly Cloudy
Chance of precipitation: 20%
11pm Mostly Cloudy
Chance of precipitation: 10%
—
Looks like we could get a rain delay but still be able to play the game later that night. HOPEFULLY, the system will hit Philly an hour earlier than scheduled and the game could start on time.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
She’ll get over it, Don. My wife is in the same boat, although I must say she has been getting into it…..when she’s not falling asleep on the couch!! I must admit, these late games are tough.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Manny the weatherman!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
I know.. its just that we’re into single-digit days left to the wedding.. and instead of helping with things at night.. im glued to the TV from 8:00pm-1:00am
BUT.. thats just how I roll
October 24th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Don’s wedding present is gonna be a PHILLIES WORLD SERIES VICTORY!!!!!! Maybe you can go to the parade as part of your honeymoon. Run THAT past her.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
We leave at 6am Monday Nov 3rd…
I need them to wrap this up by Wednesday, game 6.. and have the parade on Friday, Oct 31st!!!! Otherwise.. I ain’t going to get to see the parade
….which is why I was trying to win those tickets to Game #4!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
That’s cutting it close. Hopefully, it gets done. At least, if there’s no game Saturday, the schedule won’t be pushed back. At least that’s what they’re saying.
I really hope the Phils can sweep at home and get it over with, but, I think that’s asking for too much.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Regarding the rain, just read the MLB weather people think that while it will rain it will clear up by the time the game needs to start
October 24th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
i was at the game last night and let me tell you about those goddamn cowbells. what a joke, there were so many open seats you could have sat the 101st airborne together. Cant wait until the go back to Citizens Bank Park and get a real earful. I actually had a woman in a rays jersey(brand new) tell me “Tampa are good fans, so kiss my ass!” I kindly replied “Good one Wordsworth” and she looked at me like a retard. Then she threw her cowbell 3 rows away and spilled her beer on my buddy’s neck. Where was Mark Grace to see that one??????