Phillies Nation

63 Responses to “My Offseason Blueprint For The 2009 Phillies”

1. Tim Malcolm Says:
   November 10th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

   As you can see, I have no trades.

   The only trade I might squint for is Jermaine Dye for Jason Donald and … I don’t know …. Antonio Bastardo, with the Phils eating Dye’s salary. But that’s a lot of cash (potentially $23.5M for 2009 and 2010).

   Teams want too much in trade, and I see Carrasco and Happ as major parts of the rotation in 2010, and Marson as catcher of the future. Of the four big prospects, Donald is my most available.

2. NEPA Says:
   November 10th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

   I’m very in favor of getting Milton Bradley, I think he would be very very dangerous in this lineup. I’d also avoid Baldelli at all costs. Not healthy enough.

3. NJ Says:
   November 11th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

   I don’t think a Dye trade would take Bastardo, the White Sox would love him off their books and with a prospect of the level of Donald in the deal it could likely be padded out with pitching prospects with lesser stuff. I really don’t like the idea of Milton Bradley and I think he’s going to hang around on the open market unles he re-signs with Texas, his questionable attitude and health are already having people laughing at his demands and he’s not going to get 3 years+ arond the $10m py mark with a contendor.

   Perez is a very nice thought, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Amaro being a little more active than we expect.

4. Geoff Says:
   November 11th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

   Id be all about a DOnald plus mid-level pitching prospect for Dye type of a trade.

   I fully agree about Moyer. If you can get him on one year deals then hes a good get. But why commit all those yeras to a 46 year-old man? just have a perennial option like wakefield does and I will be happy with that. He can come in and be the 5th starter every year until he retires if he can repeat his performance of this past season. However, I think they really REALLY need to start considering Moyer the 5th starter and actually go out and get a third or so type starter.

   Jamie performed awesome in his effort to win 16 games last year, but you CANNOT rely on that again and again and again. Just be thorough, be safe about it. Make sure you have the pitching depth juuuuuuuuust in case.

5. Geoff Says:
   November 11th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

   I have no interest in Bradley either, it just seems like a BIG waste of money. at least Dye has an option for 2010..

6. NJ Says:
   November 11th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

   Gotta show more love for Moyer, he may be 46 and sure he’s not likely to throw 16 wins this year but having him in the middle gives you the flexibility to try and groom someone in that 5 hole that could become so much more. We’ve made worse deals hedging our bets and the money these frontline FA’s are asking for would mean were heading our bets, I’d love to see Burnett but not as the top paid guy on the team.

7. RichieAllen Says:
   November 11th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

   Tim,very good informational artice ….Its taking me a while to digest all the stuff in it but its great fun.
   I agree with a couple of people above..sign Dye not Bradley (if we cant have Burrell,that is ).Bradley could be pain in the a**.
   And I agree that Moyer should be task #1,after all he won 16 games but he’s like a coach and father figure to a lot of our young pitchers.
   Didnt we have Odalis Perez on our team before?

8. Tim Malcolm Says:
   November 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

   No Odalis. We’ve had Tomas. Odalis has actually schooled the Phils in the past.

   I don’t know why everyone’s against Bradley so much. Teams will shy away from him because of attitude, but in Philly I’d bet you he tempers. And he’s just perfect for the offense. A strong contact hitter with 30-HR pop in Citizens? Look what he did in Arlington. The guy was tailor-made for Philly.

9. Geoff Says:
   November 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

   Im all for keeping moyer around I just think you need to bring in another guy whos solid to add depth. maybe happ ends up as the odd man out, but still. kendricks already out, might as well try to package him for someone while were at it. I really think they should just suck it up and give hamels the money before arbitration. figure out what the arb range will be and start your contract negotiations based on that. Im pretty suire Cole will get his contract this winter. They basically have to do it.

   Now that eyre is abck in the fold and it looks like burrell will go. Id give moyer a one year deal with a recurring wakefield option and if he doesnt liek that then he can leave too, despite all he means to the team and the city. after that theyll need to make hamels happy with a contract and then go out and get the rest of the pieces.

10. Geoff Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    theres always the outside chance that bradleys just one of those guys that comes here and gets to know charlie, respects him, and cleans his act up. i just dunno…i heard dye is a really nice person. someone i know ran into him with his kid at a restaurant at the all star game one year and he was really cool.

11. Justin Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    I may be one of those few people that desnt want to give up a talent like jason donald. He’s a stud at the plate and decent with the glove and if the phils are trying him at 3rd in the AFL doesnt it seem as if they’re grooming him to take over the position? Specially since we don’t have a 3rd base option anywhere close to being MLB ready.

12. Chuck P Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    I didn’t think that Bradley would come here (we haven’t exactly treated him nicely) but I did not know that he was friends with Utley. If he would, I’m not sold on the idea that he can last an entire season (the guy tried to attack/confront a big league commentator last year). The guy can rake but he is the biggest head case in all of baseball. Vic will cost more than $1.5 million… it has been reported that Nate McLouth will ask for better than $4 million and their numbers/accolades are very similar (Vic’s are actually better). Will Madson only cost us $2.5??? Dye would be nice but not at that price. If it comes down to Bradley or Dye, I guess that I would take Bradley. Odalis Perez??? Are we that desperate? We have some great prospects that could fetch great value on the market… can Donald play 3rd or LF? If we bring up Marson and he does what we think he can do, at that point, what do we do with Ruiz??

13. Manny Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    I agree in that I would prefer NOT to get into any trades. Carrasco and Happ seem like they could be integral parts of our rotation at some point next season.

14. RichieAllen Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Tim…who knows you might be right about Bradley…All I know is that he was a problem to some other teams(although I dont know what the problems were).
    We had such a good mix of guys this year,hate the possibilty of someone screwing that chemistry up ..thats all.

15. Mike T. Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    i like how you put adam eaton last in the AAA depth chart. haha

16. RichieAllen Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    I like Geoff’s idea of signing a solid pitcher in addition to Moyer…But I wonder if that would cancel the Dye/Bradley/Burrell money?
    Otherwise were just getting a midlle of the road guy who you hope overacheives.
    I guess every team is looking for that 4-5 mil player who pitches like a 10 mil guy.

17. Robbi P Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    I agree Tim with everything except Odalis. 1. Nobody really knows his exact age and I would rather as I stated earlier in a previous post, try to sign Mark Prior, one of my favorite pitchers from the past but I’ve received probably just criticism for that. I think as long as we sign a pitcher that has experience, we should be set in case one of the Phillies pitchers goes down by injury, age or inexperience.

    I feel we should look at some pitchers coming off of injuries as a low risk/high reward guys. Josh Fogg and Mark Mulder are two former top of the rotation men who could be had cheap for minor league deals with incentives. I feel that any of these three guys will be great contingency plans.

    Odalis Perez, I think that just because he killed the Phillies doesn’t constitute him as are number 5, I could and hopefully will be proven wrong if that occurs. I wonder if Amaro is looking at these blogs but common sense says no haha.

18. Lewisauce Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    I’m more worried about the outfield than the pitching. Pitching, you’ve got three guys set for 09, you’ve got Moyer as a fairly cheap option in the four- or five-slot (”cheap,” that is, compared to the big free agent market, ala Dempster, Lowe, etc.), and that leaves one slot for Happ/Carrasco/Kendrick (I still haven’t given up on Kendrick). That still leaves two possible arms out of those bottom three if someone gets hurt. Not to mention, douche-bag (Eaton) will be in AAA and available if you need to spot-start someone because a real pitcher is on the 15-day DL. (Of course, this all depends on Moyer.)

    I think, if I’m Amarro, I take a shot at a pitcher (I like the Odalis idea!) who is mid-rotation and fairly cheap, so you’ve got depth, and then you concentrate on the outfield, specifically a high-contact righty of some sort.

    I like Milton Bradley. If anybody can handle him, it’s Charlie. I like Dye as well, and I’d be happy with either.

19. Ben Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    I know we are not looking to sure up the back end of our pen anymore, but I just saw that hoffman is now available.

    If we picked up Hoffman for the 8th as a set up man that would give us huge firepower in the back end of our pen, and would block the mets from getting him.

    I don’t even know if Hoffman would go for the set up role, but at this stage of his career he might. Again, not saying that there is even a chance of this happening, but that would be a sick ‘pen.

20. Memphis Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Not to beat a dead horse, but we should all read Gammons’ take on the Holliday trade, a basic steal for a centerpiece player.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3695225&name=gammons_peter

    As for Dye, we don’t even know how available he is. It’s not like we’ve heard that the ChiSox are shopping him like Colorado shopped Holliday, though they do apparently have 4 startable outfielders, so it seems likely he can be had (SI’s John Heyman says Chicago has “listened to offers”). Still, I would consider him a longshot and perhaps not that big of an upgrade over Burrell (for a similar price), if at all. Dye’s average fluctuates, and he’ll be what, 35?

    Bradley’s an interesting option — anyone know about his defense? He played only 20 games in the outfield last year. Just curious. I think he may be the best option out there; downside is that he might be nuts, his defense may be a question, and he bats left. Friends with Utley, you say? Didn’t see that one coming.

21. Matt Kwasiborski Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Bradley is too injured and a major head case. All of us Eagles fans thought the same about TO but look how that turned out. I mean this guy did go after an announcer. Are you kidding me? Our chemistry doesn’t need him in there. If we don’t sign Burrell, we need to trade for Dye. Dye is older but can still produce and would bring another respectable voice to the clubhouse.

    We are not in the position anymore to take a “flier” on an oft-injured pitcher and committ millions to them. That eliminates Prior, Mulder, Penny, etc. Odalis would be a solid four or five man in this rotation. But I am all for giving Happ or Carrasco a shot just to see if they can pitch in the show. At this point in time there is absolutely NO pressure on those two for performing like All-stars.

22. Eb Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    I think Donald for Dye straight up is the deal, maybe a LOW pitching prospect. It is really just a salary dump on their half

23. Craig Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    Is informational a word?

24. mikemike Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Tim I believe that Jenkins is 8 million this year. Don’t think phillies will pay Hamels 8 million more like 5 also 8 million for moyer for one year okay a little high but no more than one year guaranteed. vic about 2.5 werth tops 3 million all the rest very close. I hope we are right I think it was me who first mention bradley to you, hope he comes here on two year deal with buyout for third year and charlie can control him. the thing about the phillies is. if and its a big if Carrasco and Happ are ready, next year Myers and his 12 million and Eaton Moyer jenkins and felix off books give this team a lot of flexible. that is something like 41 million with those two young pitchers at minimun we could sign Hamels long term and get big time pitcher to be second starter and take pressure off the kids. or big time third baseman if donald fails.

25. mikemike Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Craig tried to find out. but can’t spell dictonary to find out sorry

26. RichieAllen Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Craig..I made the word up to see if anyone would notice…good job.

27. mikemike Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    I think Peter Gammons is nuts. Oakland getting Holiday for rental and expect to make up 25 game difference. He talks about young pitchers can you expect to have Cahill and anderson ready for next year, and furcal is to me going down as a player. that trade makes sense if he takes two picks that pan out better than he gave up. or he hold a team up in midseason for a big package to a team going for a pennant.

28. Memphis Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    What about Juan Rivera as that non-expensive righty-bat platoon with Jenkins or Dobbs? Seems fairly similar to Baldelli without the debilitating condition (which apparently he can control better nowadays with meds, diet, and rest).

    How do we rank the so-far mentioned options….. Burrell; Dye; Bradley; Rivera/Dobbs/Jenkins; Baldelli/Dobbs/Jenkins; Dobbs/Jenkins/Stairs; or screw LF, spend on another starter?

29. Craig Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Richie – my bad informational is indeed an adjective of information.

    You really do learn something new every day.

30. From Section 113 Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    First thing first, Great job on this site. I do have a few things to say on your ideas. Odalis Perez?!?!?!?! What the hell is that about? He had a good season last yr? No I am sorry but he’s not an answer, not even “on the flier”.

    Second, $9 Million to Cole Hamels?!?!?!?! Why on God’s green Earth would we EVER do that. He’ll get half that, maybe slightly more, in arbitration. He won’t be anymore willing to sign/not sign a contract if we waste $9 million for his 1st yr of a new contract. That would be a huge waste of money. Give him $5-$6 tops in ‘09. Give him 6-7 years for $90-$110. If not we still have him for 3 more years after ‘09.

    Third, I think you are right on about Moyer. That would work. It might take 2 option yrs that have to be picked up at the same time but I cab definately see him signning for that.

    Fourth, Eb said “I think Donald for Dye straight up is the deal, maybe a LOW pitching prospect. It is really just a salary dump on their half”….Um No.

    They don’t have to trade Dye. He’s still a top run producer and can play RF. It would take much more than that to net Dye. Please stop making our prospects HOFs before they play in the majors. Bastardo isn’t that great either. He was so erratic in AA I wanted to kill someone. Constantly losing control. He’d strikeout 2 guys then walk 2 batters. Very frustrating. And has no big time heat. Him and Donald aren’t netting Dye.

    Fifth, I think you are low balling some of the arbitration guys. Werth was a full time player last year for the most part and should expect a larger than usual raise. Vic is comparable to a Coco Crisp, who netter just under $3 Million his first arb yr. Madson should double his money. With his agent, he’ll see to it too.

31. Manny Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    If we don’t sign a really good pitcher, and ONE of our rotation guys gets injured, we are SCREWED.

32. Tim Malcolm Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I looked at arbitrations by looking at histories. Maybe Vic and Werth are a little low-balled, so consider those conservative. Even if they’re given more considerable raises, it’s probably a million more each. I’m also looking at it from the Phils POV — Werth and Vic have both been injured a good lot in their short careers, and both haven’t exactly proven themselves as long-term commitments yet.

    Prior is an interesting name to throw out there. Hoffman? Only if the price comes down. He’d be the nice “experienced late-innings guy” I’ve been pining for ever since Gordon deteriorated. And I’m sure Cole would love playing alongside his idol.

33. Georgie Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Tim, if I remember correctly, you wrote a while back, before the playoffs, that this was a team with character and class, guys like Pat, Jamie, nice guys (who didn’t finish last). Now you want to bring in the likes of Milton Bradley? I learned quickly that you shouldn’t say things on here without backing them up, so I looked up Mr. Bradley.

    First off, since may ‘02, he’s been put on the 15day DL 9 times, been sent to the minors for rehab 6 times, been suspended by the league 2 times. His batting #’s in “08 were great, but inflated compared to the previous years.

    Now let’s talk about his “personality issues”. I went to youtube and searched milton bradley fights, and there you can see for yourself his fight with the umpire and subsequent injury, he’s one of those guys that loses it fast and cannot get control of himself when it happens. I put alot of the blame on the umpire there, but you can’t lose control like that. Our team is not made up of people like that, they’re pretty laid back, and someone with that temperment can be intimidating. Unless Bradley has done a complete 180, I don’t want him anywhere near this team.

34. Tim Malcolm Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Oh I know about Bradley’s issues. He’s one of the worst out there.

    My opinion is one that very few will share, but I do feel he’d man up in Philly. I’ll outline my reasons again:

    - Chase Utley. They played together in high school and remain good friends. Utley is leader of the team; Bradley would know his place.
    - Charlie Manuel. He managed Milton when he came to Cleveland as a 23-year-old. Manuel went off on him once for lack of professionalism. He can handle him.
    - In a 2003 article, Bradley was lauded by teammate Ellis Burks: “All you’d hear was this negative stuff about how this kid is tough to manage, he’s got a short temper, the umpires, but all I saw was a young kid with tremendous ability. I didn’t see the troubled person that everyone’s talking about. I just saw someone who needed people to be a little more positive.” Burks and Matt Lawton helped Bradley calm himself in Cleveland. I’d bet the Frontrunner Bros. could do the same here.
    - A ring. Bradley would be coming in knowing he’s the last piece in a puzzle for a team that’s looking for a second-straight ring. He’d play to that role.

    Yes, it’s a hell of a risk to bring in someone that volatile. But the character of this team could ultimately be what helps Bradley become a true star.

35. NEPA Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Agreed. Keeping Burrell is clearly the safe move to make, and might be what is best for this team. But, Milton Bradley has the ability to be a very very dangerous player in the middle of the lineup. I also believe that his “issues” would not be an issue in our clubhouse. We have different leaders for different issues (e.g. Utley leads by example, Rollins leads by making everyone relaxed and comfortable) and I think with personal relationships with Utley and Manual already in place, it would not be a problem at all.

36. Georgie Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Sorry, I just won’t drink the MB KoolAid, I’ve heard that song before. He’s been with, what, 6 teams in 8 years? So far, it doesn’t sound like anyone’s been able to control him, I don’y buy that all of a sudden, just because he knows someone or is friends with Chase, that he’ll “not be a problem at all”.

37. j cole Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    I didn’t read all the replies, but I don’t care too much for Coste. I know he won the fans over last year as the 33 y.o. rookie, but he has hit his sophmore slump and I do not think he is coming out. I would love to see him get out of it, because it is a good story, but he has his WS ring, now move him back to AAA and lets pull Marson up to work with Ruiz.

    I don’t have any good options for left field, I think Bradley may fit, but like everyone has been preaching, he is definitely a wild card.

    Moyer for two years sounds a bit much. I think he is a great person to have, but to be able to rely on for two more years may be asking a bit.

38. Chuck P Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    The more I think about it (if he really played ball with Utley in HS and played under Manuel), I’m becoming somewhat convinced that we should take a chance on Bradley… especially if it comes down to Bradley or a platoon. Keep him on a short leash and build a contract with incentives for him to stay healthy and out of trouble. He’s a tremendous hitter and he could teach our players a lot (he has a great approach at the plate). Let him know that the expectation is for him to be a teacher as well as a player. If you set the bar high enough and give him a positive role, I think that he could make it. The guy needs affirmation… that’s obvious. He needs to be coddled and insulated; keep him out of the lineup in situations that might be problematic (on the road in certain cities where he has a bad history). I think that we’re better off with Bradley 75% of the time than we are with a platoon.

39. NEPA Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    If the question is Bradley or Burrell, I’m somewhat split. We know what were getting with Burrell, which is a good and bad thing – but it’s the safe choice, which may be the wiser decision for a team defending a WS. But Bradley could be the key to stopping this team from going into one or two month slumps because he can hit for power and average, neither of which Burrell and Howard can do.

    If Burrell doesn’t come back and the question is Bradley or platoon, then the answer is no question Bradley. I mean come on, this guy was one of the best batters in the AL last year. That’d be a no brainer. All of the other LF options are passes for me except for Dye.

40. Memphis Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    Warming to the Bradley idea, risks included, as long as he isn’t a cluster in the field. I still think we’d need to add a righty bat, at least to come off the bench. The lineup would be lefty dominated.

    The rotation… I like the Odalis idea, though I’d take a shot at Sheets or Penny before I settle for Odalis’ still, he may be a better option than Happ or Kendrick. If Moyer goes south, we may be looking at Happ AND Kendrick in the rotation without another innings eater to put in there (obviously not Eaton). I’m not sure how much tolerance we have for the injury rebounds, like Penny, Mulder, Prior (I think Sheets will still get some $$, so not including him as a realisitc potential target). If we sign Moyer and we have Happ penciled in at #5, where would be put a new SP? To me, signing any SP would mean no Moyer or a decision to start both Happ & Kendrick in AAA.

41. Durbinator Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    Forget Odalis Perez and Pete Orr. I would rather let guys like Happ, Carrasco, Kendrick, Carpenter take Perez’s starts and Donald/Marson/Golson take Orr’s at bats and field time. Orr can play at AAA on a minor league deal but I have no idea why anybody would want him in the majors.

    I would be ok with Milton Bradley but would much rather have the Phils simply re-sign Pat the Bat. Bradley did great last year but had a lot of health issues and was a frequent DH.

    I would sign another RH bullpen piece to replace Seanez and incase Durbin reverts. I wouldn’t mind getting a set-up man now to replace Madson since I am sure he will be gone after the ‘09 season with Boras as his agent.

42. Chuck P Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    There have been whispers that the Cards might be interested in trading Ludwick for a middle infielder or two (specifically linked to Kelly Johnson and Yuniel Escobar of the Braves)… do you think that they might be willing to think about Ludwick for Jason Donald?

43. The Dipsy Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    The answer at pitcher is DERRICK LOWE. How can anyone not see that? A sinkerball pitcher in CB park looking for a three year deal? Come on. Odalis Perez sucks and he would give us three lefties, assuming we keep Moyer or Happ, in the rotation. I don’t like that. There are still a lot of right handed hitters in the league in case you haven’t noticed. Moyer is a year to year from here on out. Burrell cannot be here next year. Well, I’d give him 6 mill I guess. We have to cut down on the strikeouts in the lineup. He’s also a gimp. Milton Bradley? Why? The money needs to be spent on pitching. Put Jason Donald out there if you want…whatever. It takes 5 minutes to learn to play LF. Dobbs is gonna play most of the time anyway.

44. Manny Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    I’m with The Dipsy. Pitching needs to be our top priority. Get Lowe for 3 years and pay him whatever he’s worth. I would believe most pitchers would like to come and play for the World Champions.

    Lets all look again at the > analysis. Our starting pitching was below league-average. Everything else was great. We were extremely lucky that not one of our pitchers got injured and they ALL came up BIG in the playoffs. We simply can’t keep relying on our pitchers on ALWAYS playing at the top of their range. This year it worked for us. Next year, who knows… What do we need to do? Bring a guy like Lowe and dramatically strengthen our rotation.

45. NJ Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    Dipsy- Do you realise the financial commitment the Phils would have to make to sign Derek Lowe? Either the Mets or Yankees are going to give an insane amount of money for him baring in mind he’s a Boras client. The FO has stated pitching is their priority in the market but they can’t be expected to handcuf themselves to at least 3 years for a non-Cy Young calibre pitcher who’d be earning more than anyone else on the team when there are very promising prospects in the system.

    Secondly 5 minutes to play LF…? Seriously? Dobbs will barely see any time in left as if he’s in the field it’s probably at third with Jenkins and or Stairs in the outfield.

    BTW Tim’s suggested Perez as a possible swingman and the cost would be low for big upside.

46. Manny Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    In my previous post, beginning of 2nd paragraph: instead of “>” it should be “Beyond the Box Score” … I was referring to the analysis here: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/11/3/652052/2008-team-reviews-philadel#comments

47. NJ Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    Manny- What evidence do you have to say the pitching was below average past the names on the back of the jerseys and the stigma that goes with them? You say everything else was great but if it wasn’t the offense that struggled for most of the year those starters would have netted several more wins.

    And pay whatever Lowe’s worth… No-one’s going to be paying either Lowe, Burnett, Dempster or Sheets anywhere near the ballpark their ‘worth’, Lowe will land a contract somewhere in the region of the $50m range for what could be as little as a 3 year deal, he’d be the highest paid guy on the Phillies if it happened.

    I agree the rotation can be strengthened but can we please stop knocking the guys on the roster and calling the FO cheap for not going and making stupid deals to appease the fans. Did you know Jason Marquis is scheduled to make just a shade under $10m this year, don’t forget Eaton is making over $8m and ok those 2 aren’t a shade on Lowe but do you really want to see us looking like the Mets?

48. The Dipsy Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    I was ASSUMING Lowe would take around 42m over 3 years from us. If he wants to go for 45m with a donkey team then god bless him. We’re the World Series champs. We get a discount. And remember, he’s not option #1 for the Mets, Yanks, Sox etc. They want to sign other guys. By the way, Stairs can’t play the field anymore so he’ll be part of no platoon. You wanna start Dobbs at third and bring in Feliz against LHs and late in games like this year…fine. I just don’t think Jenkins can hit anymore…period. And he’s more strikeouts. I think your 3B should be a good fielder and Feliz is that. Dobbs/RH of the .285/10/50/10 ilk platooning in LF is the vote hear. There are guys like that around. Aren’t there?

49. mikemike Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

    Manny the phillies are not big aggressive spenders. It worked once in 28 years. Right now they should lock up hamels and go after lowe, remember next year a lot of salary goes away. they made a bundle they can try to repeat. or do you rather they win once every 28 yr. now is the time to get aggressive they have the neculus and need a little more . To me it comes down to moyer or lowe who would you rather have. would it have been stupid to get harden, CC ? blanton won but he didn’t set the world on fire. If the team was more aggressive in the draft and international market they could have better prospect to deal. This year when you hear a pitcher in the draft named Gibson he would have been a philly but they low ball him, same with saunders with the angels, workman another stud prospect. the older guys on this site know what the ownership has done, we are just very leary of this group and there lack of trying to go all out to win.

50. The Dipsy Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    MikeMike is right. Ownership has alawys built this team to bring a “reasonable return on investment”, not to “win”. Winning this year was great and I say even the sun shines on a dogs ass sometimes. My 1984 Phillies lineup scribbled on a piece of paper when I was in college:

    OF Jeff Stone
    2B Juan Samuel
    OF Von Hayes
    (Oh the speed so far)
    1B Mike (I’m a third baseman) Schmidt
    C Lance Parrish
    OF Glenn Wilson
    1B Rick Schu (did I just type that?)
    SS Steve Jeltz

    I thought we were gonna get 150 steals out of those top 3 guys.

51. NJ Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    Lowe’s not signing for $14m py unless it’s going to see him up to his retirement, ALL Yankee and Mets writers have him firmly on their radars. The rumors suggest Sheet will net near $18m py and Burnett won’t be far behind. Should we sign one of those guys, maybe another next year, what do we then do to fill the corner outfield spot (some asking for a frontline pitcher are demanding) to avoid that all lefty platooning outfield, what do we do with blocked pitching prospects because of free agent acquisitions? What about Ryan Howard and re-signing Cole?

    You can’t have it all and if you want to call the owners cheap then go buy a Yankees, Cubs or Mets jerseys. I’m just as frustrated when we don’t trade for CC or fail to land Soriano or Lowell but remember… The offers were on the table but the players turned them down to go to clubs who are now back in shopping mode because their support eclipses ours to the point their ownership can thrown money.

    Outfield wise Jenkins isn’t the 25/80 guy but he will contribute as will Stairs in a smaller way, Dobbs is not our LFer and I can guarantee you you will see the Phils bring in RHB corner outfielder at the very minimum. We are not the Yankees or Mets and it’s about time we stopped gripping about the payroll not being astronomical, should they put more in yes, should they go the way of Cleveland in the late nineties and have the payroll escolate into loosing money like happened there… No.

    We’ve just won a World Series, why are we acting like the guys that just won us a ring might as well retire now before there careers hit obscurity? We can all agree peices need to be added but we don’t need to take a kneejerk reaction that it’s spend big this year or it’s all been for nothing. How many teams have repeated since the Yankees won? Do you really want to see us handcuffed to stupid investments because we got an inferiority complex as champions…?

52. Manny Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    I’m just saying: If we’re gonna bring a really good baseball player, bring in a solid pitcher, preferably Lowe…instead of a left-fielder. We NEED to reinforce our rotation, more than we need a big bat. That’s what I think.

    And NJ my “evidence” is the link I posted (November 11th, 2008 at 8:14 pm).

53. cm Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    Are the Yankees interested in trading Xavier Nady?

54. Mike N Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 12:41 am

    I’m conflicted on this one, because I generally would go for pitching instead of a left fielder. But we have more depth in the system at starting pitcher than in the outfield, with Carrasco, Happ, and Kendrick. Golson’s definitely not ready for the big leagues, and he’s our best OF prospect right? So maybe the thing to do is spend for a LF (preferably not Milton Bradley) and groom the young pitchers.

55. Bunts and Base Knocks Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 12:45 am

    [...] Phillies Nation breaks down how they see the 2009 Phillies shaping up. [...]

56. Memphis Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 1:19 am

    I would still making pitching a priority, IF we are to spend FA dollars.

    Get after Lowe, Sheets, or Dempster. Bring back Moyer only if he takes a one-year deal. If not, Happ or Kendrick is our #5. If no Lowe-Sheets-Dempster, then I would look at Perez, Looper, or Penny as a contingency plan for Moyer, as Tim suggests.

    LF is tough. Don’t want to see Stairs out there. Not sold on Jenkins (he was pretty bad last year). Not really into bringing Burrell back, but won’t be surprised if we do. Would love to trade for Dye or Magglio, but not counting on it. I think Bradley is better as a DH, he’s a lefty anyway. Ibanez might be nice, but he’s also a lefty (and going on 37). Don’t know much about him, but I might take a flyer on Juan Rivera or, even crazier, Gabe Kapler. Need SOMEBODY that bats right, don’t we?

57. mikemike Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 6:34 am

    Mike N most people in the organization I believe think that Taylor and Brown have more upside than Golson.

58. KM Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    I am very much in favor of inking Milton Bradley, despite his propensity to get into trouble and his sketchy injury history. Bradley is a GREAT hitter(when healthy), and is a solid fielder(when motivated). He can give you a solid 120-130 games in RF or LF, and Jenkins can give you the rest. If we could get him for the contract that you suggested it would be a great deal. I would think he will probably sign for 3-4 years in the amount that Burrell was offered(11 mil/year).

59. Jeff Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Why don’t they just give Pat the Bat 36 Mil for 3 years and be done with it. Bradley is a PITA.

60. NJ Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    I think Pat’s sat at home with Elvis wondering that exact same thing.

61. Chuck P Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    You are right… pitching wins championships… our starting rotation was opportunistic last year but a 5 man rotation of Hamels, Myers, Blanton, Moyer and whoever is pitching well in the minors is likely not going to be good enough for a second year. We need Carrasco to emerge as a bona fide starter. Will that happen by September? By the way… I was not big on Blanton when it happened but he was a critical component this year and I believe that he has turned the corner. Here’s my crazy Joe Blanton stat… in every game that he pitched this year for the Phils, one of the following three results occurred:
    - The Phils won the game
    - Joe Blanton left with a lead
    - Joe Blanton gave up 3 ER or less

    … his problem during the regular season seemed to be pitching with a lead. Too many times this year, he would have a four or five run cushion and struggle to maintain a comfortable lead (he would give up three or four runs and be taken out). When he gave up an early run, he would always seem to pitch well enough to give them a chance to come back. I think we saw the light go on in the playoffs… I think that we won’t have a problem with Joe losing focus anymore. And he was an opening day starter in 2008 so he has talent…

    Now that I’ve told you that pitching wins championships, I’ll tell you that our most pending need is a bat in LF to protect Howard. Pat would have to take a significant pay cut to stay here… it’s not gonna happen. Not sure if Werth can do it (would love to have a RH in that spot) and I hate the idea of a platoon in LF so it would be nice to iron that situation out first. We’re not gonna pay Lowe, Sheets, Dempster, CC or Burnett what they’re asking (and we shouldn’t)… you have to hope that you can get by with what you have and rent a pitcher if need be for a post season run.

62. Philajen Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Milton Bradley……. Absolutely no way. This guy has mouthed off at Philly fans to the point that security guards and police stand in the aisles when we play him. The fans killed him so bad the last game he played at the ballpark that they pulled him out in the 6th inning. With his temper I am not sure he can handle playing in Phila. Although it would be tempting to see how far we can push him till he cracks!

63. Odds And Ends: Mathieson, Arbitration, K-Rod | Phillies Nation Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 11:09 am

    [...] arbitration with these deals. Bruntlett will make $800K, and Condrey will make $650K. (Check out my offseason plan and see what I figured in 2009 money for Bruntlett and Condrey.) Good moves, too. Both were [...]

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