Phillies Nation

63 Responses to “Phils Skating Around Lowe, Burnett, Moyer”

1. Johnny Fire Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

   I like both Burnett and Lowe as pitchers and, technically speaking, groundball expert Lowe should be a good fit for Citizens Bank Park. That said, he’s a bit of a scoundrel – cheated on his wife – and I have a hard time rooting for him. I don’t know what you’re referring to re: Burnett’s demeanor… personally, I wouldn’t mind throwing him a 3-4 year deal worth $27 – $38 million.

2. Frank Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

   i want moyer back and sign aj

3. Manny Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

   “I’m betting Moyer wants two years and $7M per year, at the least. Why not add a year and a few million to grab Lowe instead?”

   EXACTLY!

   At this point it looks like it’s gonna be Moyer OR another SP. So why not add a few million and a year and get Lowe? He’s solid, durable, and the not-so-risky option… exactly what we need if we do decide to replace our Moyer –he was solid and durable in 08, but it’d still be kinda risky to rely so heavily on him all next season.

4. Manny Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

   Of course, if Lowe is gonna ask for 5 years like Burnett, then forget it.

5. Eb Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

   8-10 Million???? Tim, I have been reading reports in upwards of 13 MIllion to around 15 million.

   8- 10 millions is a steal for each of those guys

6. Eb Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

   I would go…

   Lowe 3/38-40 million

   Burnett 5/65-70 million

   I am more keen on Lowe though

7. Eb Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

   Sorry for so many posts in a row, but is this Myers last Year?

8. psujoe Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

   If the Angels are able to sign Sabathia, the Yankees are going to pay top $$$ for these two. If we could land either guy for only 8-10 mil on a 4 year deal, do it immediately. I wouldn’t go 2 years 7 mil for Moyer.

9. Rahim Says:
   November 26th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

   Lowe for 3-4 years would be the way to go. You don’t know what kind of Burnett you will get and let’s not forget that Moyer is 46 years old. He ain’t Satchel Paige.

10. Don M Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    Whatever we want to pay Lowe, the Mets will offer him more.. and more…and more..

    No way that with the high demand for pitching that either Lowe or Burnett signs somewhere for less than $10 M per season, and I’d be willing to bet they get $12+, even heading towards $15 M.. because the teams that are in need will outbid each other Phillies, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, RedSox, Yankees… We’re not going to be the highest bidder out of those teams

11. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Took a long break from posting because all is well in Phillie-land for the most part.

    Now…

    Carlos Silva’s deal was reset by Ryan Dempster’s 4 year contract at 12mm per year. If Ryan Dempster gets 12mm per year at what most people would call even market value (forgetting that hes only had 2 good years as a starter), AND if Jamie Moyer wants 7mm per year. AND if santana and sabathia are looking at 20-22 mm per year. Therefore, Burnet and Lowe fall into the 14-18mm per year range. There is absolutely no way that Scott Boras will allow Derek Lowe to go for anything less than 14mm per year for 4 years.

    If youre looking for 8-10 mm per year. then you should give Jon Garland a call…

12. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Also…5 years 75-80 for aj burnett has bad contract written all over it after 3 years of the deal.

13. Justin Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Derek Lowe is a good fit for the ballpark and the team with his winning mentality. I think Lowe and Moyer are similar to eachother because their stuff isn’t overpowering it’s just consistent for about 3 times through the lineup but if when a team gets to that 3rd time around they start seeing the ball better and we all saw what can happen with that. A la Chase Utley and Pat Burrell taking him deep in Game 1 of the NLCS. But I’d still take either Moyer or Lowe before Burnett his arm problems are always a problem and the only time he’s healthy is when he’s up for a contract.

14. Tom G Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Value at an age is key…I have long wanted a consideration of LOWE as our number 2 guy. He is a sinker-baller who would work well in the 16+ starts at home…second at his age, the benefits of being a Sinker-baller are not limited as it is with a blazer…I see no other pitcher who could add as much value to our roster…we need to improve on our rotation. Myers is still an inigma…Moyer is the lefty version of Lowe…it would allow for us to invest in youth for the 5th spot and be willing to grow with the youngster

15. Don M Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    I’d much rather have Sheets than Burnett…

16. TheDipsy Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    8m – 10m for Burnett and Lowe? Tim, babe, put the bong down. Those guys are going for 14m apiece. I would still give Lowe 3/45. If we have to choke on the last year, so be it. We are an elite team now. Not that this is the most important thing in the world, but if Lowe’s starts to suck in 2011, we know he can pitch in the pen. Oh….wait a minute…he cheated on his wife???? Forget it, then. WHO CARES??? Oh, and Geoff, Scott Boras is also that whatshisname’s Cardinals pitcher that used to pitch for us who had a good year this year after signing what was basically a “make good” contract. How did that work out for him?

    The Dipsy
    Chairman for the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation

17. Griffin Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    No one should give Jon Garland a call, he’s terrible.
    I agree that we’ll get outbid for Lowe and Burnett and will be forced to give Moyer two years.

18. TheDipsy Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    insert “agent for that whathisname pitcher”. Sorry.

19. Matt Kwasiborski Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    I heard on WIP that Moyer may want 3 years. This is probably stoking the Phils interest in these two along with trying to just see what they want. Again, the Phils are WSC! Players will want to play here now so we should kick the tires on these guys. You have to think if the Phils are serious about one of these guys, their salary will be very close to Burrell’s and then we sign Ibanez for about 7-9M for two years. That should work in our budget.

20. psujoe Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Just make sure they give Sheets a physical first. I’d take him in a heartbeat if healthy.

21. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Yeah Lohse did sign a team friendly deal, but he was kinda garbage up until he got traded to the phillies.

    burnett is a bad contract to get on your hands, and so is sheets. i dont want garland either i just throught id mention that hes not even going to be that cheap…i really dont see the problem in choosing lowe over moyer. its worth it i think as it would allow competition for the 5th spot between happ, carracso, and kendrick as well ash stabilize the 1-4 sports with quality pitching. like him or not, blanton came on strong in the postseason too. hes primed for a decent-good season.

22. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    (sheets) you mean if he can STAY healthy…

    anyways, ibanez does NOT fit this team, he is a left-handed hitter. they NEED right-handed power still

23. Griffin Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Lowe seems like a perfect fit for this team. It’s worth it to see what he wants, but since Boras is his agent, he’ll get at least 16 mil a year.

    Geoff, I agree on Ibanez, he’s a lefty and since the Phillies will have Dobbs, Stairs and Jenkins on the bench, that makes us a little too one-sided.

24. NJ Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    The Phils have no shot a Lowe or Burnett, their just getting in the mix incase one unexpectedbly falls to them, with the Angels offering big money to Sabathia it becomes more unlikely the Phils can land one of those two. Remember if Burnett doesn’t go to the Yankees or Orioles the offer to go back to the Blue Jays will still be far more than we’d offer and better suitors for Lowe look to already have narrowed his choices. The buzz around is years on the deal is the theme of this off-season not per year average salary.

    Sheets is the only viable front-line pitcher we’d have a shot at because of his massive drop in value.

25. Phil Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    I say resign Moyer and get Lowe then trade Myers and a prospect or 2 for a right handed power bat. I’d even be down for swapping Eaton’s contract for that guy on the Royals(having a brain far and am forgetting his name) or another bad contracted right handed left fielder. Maybe Byrnes from the D-Backs is a possibility too. Get someone to fill Burrell’s void or resign Burrell.

26. Phil Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    I’d also be down for grabbing PEnny for cheap.

27. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Id hold onto Myers for the last year of his contract and try to resign him if he shows that he has got it figured out. Hes only 27/28. If he has a good year you can sign him to a 3-4 year extension. Signing Derek Lowe would be expensive but your 1-2-3 would be very strong.

28. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Quality pitching is just so hard to find and so expensive that even the yankees try to maximize years and value with what they have before looking elsewhere.

29. john of Albuquerque Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    I don’t want Burnett, but Lowe may be a good fit — a sinker baller in Citizens Bank Park may be very successful.

    I hear that the Astros are shopping TY WIGGINTON? Wouldn’t he be a good replacement for Burrell — right handed hitter with power (24 homers last year) who has a higher batting average that Burrell and can play third base?

    Also, I would like to see Moyer back. I just like the guy and he’s like having a second pitching coach.

30. KM Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    I’d like to sign Lowe the most, but I think either of the 3 would be fine with me.

    Although Moyer has pitched great for us, it is definitely a risk to give a 46 year old guy multiple years. He would be the cheapest option,
    which may make him the most plausible.

    Burnett would be nice. He’s a strikeout pitcher, and he looked dominant at times with the Marlins and Blue Jays. He’s the youngest, and therefore has the most upside of the three. Injuries have been a problem with Burnett, and he also has been known to be inconsistent.

    Lowe just makes the most sense to pitch here. He’s a sinker-ball pitcher in a home-run hitter’s ballpark. He is a rock solid number 2 pitcher, and was great the second half of last season and the playoffs.

    Either way you look at it, the Phillies have to land another starter, and either of these 3 are viable options.

31. Gavin Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Moyer 2 years 7 m.

    Sheets 2 years 20 m. Club option for 3rd and 4th year. at 13 m.

    We arent getting Lowe and I dont think any of us really want AJ.

    You can buy a little lower on Sheets b/c of his arm history.

    All of this is a moot point because none of us know what is actually being offered to these guys.

32. The Dipsy Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Aw well hell, if its the amount of years they want…no problem. I have no problem with giving Lowe a 5/35 contract. He deserves it. I can see where these guys might want some security

33. Brew Crew News Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    It seems as though there are only a few big free agent pitchers and Burnett has sure headlined along with CC. I would rather see him end back in the AL East so the Brewers wouldn’t have a chance of facing him.

34. Pete Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    No way the Phils should give Moyer a 3-year guarantee. Give him 2 yrs with either a vesting option based on peformance targets or a team option for the third year. Obviously Lowe would be a nice fit, but he figures to be too expensive (I would not give him any more than $13-15MM per year and the market is likely to go higher than that).

    I would really like to see the Phils make a push to sign Sheets and sign him ASAP before the rest of the top-shelf starters sign. Obviously, we’d want to see his medical records, but if we can get Sheets for $10-11MM per, we’re signing a guy who has #1 stuff at a bargain-basement price. To me, injuries are less of a concern with Sheets than Burnett, especially over a long-term deal. I am mystified that it seems likely AJ will get a top-dollar five year deal.

35. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    Just to be different Im going to go out on a limb here. Seattle gives Moyer what he wants and he goes there. And Ill bet the Phillies actually do get Lowe and go cheap with the LF and with the extra bullpen arms they pick up. and im ok with that actually. you DO have to replace burrells offense BUT you can find a bargain somewhere or trade for somebody whos still in arbitration (Atkins) who can play LF and but up decent power numbers. The rest of the offseason they can spend trying to sign cole hamels and shane victorino to long-term contracts, and yes, those are the top two guys you MUST have long term.

    shane victorino was so clutch in the postseason i can see them working out something with him too.

36. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    lowe is perfect for this city and this ballpark and this team. hed fit right in here. expensive, yes, but hes given 200 innings a year forever and has stayed healthy. definitely a model of consistency.

37. Matt Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    Big ticket FA pitching rarely works out in the long term guys.. keep that in mind. I’m perfectly okay (and prefer) that they find a way to keep Moyer as a #4 and then let the battle for #5 go to the young guys.

    We want to build from within, overpaying for Burnett or Lowe isn’t the answer.

38. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    No its not but you forget…we have cole hamels…all you need is some stability from one of lowe burnett moyer, and i feel that lowe provides the most stability from a rotation spot over 3 or more years. Burnett is a horrible idea i think we can all agree on that. he has “yankees free agent bust” written all over him.

39. KM Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    I would NEVER sign Ben Sheets. A hang-nail sidelines this guy for a month. He is going to get about 13-15 million a year, and that is far too much for a guy who never finishes a year.

40. Matt Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 9:44 pm

    Geoff –

    I see your viewpoint, but wouldn’t the money be better spent locking up Victorino / and maybe Myers long term?

    At the end of the day, you can get 12 wins out of Moyer for $7M, or 16 wins out of Lowe for $12-15M. Wouldn’t the extra $5M-8M be better spent elsewhere? Tack on the fact that Moyer is a good clubhouse guy and really helps Hamels because we have a non-existant pitching coach and I think the decision has to be Moyer.

41. mike Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    This is nuts starting pitcher like lowe 13 -18 million, its crazy hurt pitchers like sheets or burnett same thing. I STILL HATE BORAS. I have always thought the phillies are cheap but I don’t blame them if they pass.Where I do blame them is in the draft. Spend the money like boston does if you hit on one pitcher you have him under control for six years at minimal money I Know we can’t spend on salary like boston. But in the draft we can spend more to have a better farm system.

42. Geoff Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    But with moyer the only legitimate contract to give him is a one year deal for 7mm with a continuous mutual option for 5mm.

    you can compensate for overpaying for lowe by getting a value/bargain outfielder with some pop. the rest of it goes to a cheap reliever or two and contract extensions…youre spending some more money but hey its worth it.

    i mean otherwidse youre going to sing some low-end garbage like garland for 3 years 30 mm which is what hell get. thats a rip….or maybe even odalis perez or something. who wants that?

    the other solution is to trade for one….

43. Manny Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    Is Jamie really asking for 3 years? Seriously? Is he on crack?

44. Phillies Phan SC Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    I may have missed this, but this is simple (so it seems):

    Offer Jamie 1 year with a 1 year option @ 5 million with incentives, and go after Burnett. I am not big on Lowe.

    I read that the talks with Moyer are only going slow because they are having problems catching up with each other.

45. Phillies Phan SC Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    I am also for trying to dump Eaton is any deal we can find someone. Although, I do not know who else would eat that contract unless we will a Red Sox/Manny deal….

46. mike Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    Okay My trade next week at the meeting . Ryan zimmerman for Donald ,happ, , Felix we paid half his salary .

47. Matt Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    Mike –

    Farm system is getting better, we’ve got some legit MLB guys in the pipeline. The key is not signing these type “A” free agents who really aren’t difference makers. A great way to waste money AND burn a first round pick.

48. mike Says:
    November 26th, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    Matt it still isn’t getting the attention it needs. In this years upcoming draft a pitcher named Gibson out of missouri will be picked in the first round top ten we let go to college . wouldn’t spend to sign him next year watch for workman who we tried to low ball. and he went to texas. azrick a top pitcher for dodgers another one . joe saunders we let go and he is now a top starter for angels. my point is we must go into the draft and go after top talent not easy signs like salvery, a hurt pitcher from a program were the coach is know for ruining pitchers. we spent nothing in the international free agent market. my god even oakland spent four million on a prospect.I would rather take ten million and try to draft top pitching talent who you control for years . then paid lowe or burnett 18 million a year its crazy.

49. Phillies Phan SC Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 1:22 am

    I am against any deal with Feliz. He may not be good with the bat, but he does come up in some clutch situations AND he is a great third baseman. I think we need him for defense. I am for signing Moyer and Burnett.

50. mike Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 8:22 am

    Zimmerman is a better allround third baseman, He is a 285 hitter allstar fielding stud playing on a bad team.

51. The Dipsy Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    Wait a second. Where are we getting Zimmerman’s name from? That guy is a beast Donald, Happ, and Feliz for him? Do it, baby.

52. NJ Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Zimmerman to Philly’s not happening, he’s the cornerstone of their not sending him to a division rival when their trying to become a legitimate force unless their getting future stars in return. Their fans would abandon the team if they traded Zimmerman for anything less than bluechips, he means a little more to the Nats than Young did to the Rays which is the only comparison I can think of off the top of my head.

53. KM Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Zimmerman’s not going to be traded. It would be like us trading Utley. Even if it would make the Nationals better to trade Zimmerman and add in starters at a few different positions, how could they sell trading the face of their franchise to the 6 Nationals fans in existence?

54. KM Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    Speaking of Delmon Young, wouldn’t he be an attractive option to play in our outfield? I don’t know what Minnesota would want for him, but it would be a nice fit. He’s a good young contact hitter, who legitimately hit 20 homers in this ballpark. Plus he is decent defensively and stole 14 bases last year.

55. mike Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    NJ just saying I would try for him. He is a proven player where donald isn’t. second washington would come out with a two major league ready players in donald and happ plus a good prospect if we could swing it.

56. NJ Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Maybe somewhere down the line he’ll be available but if this kind of deal was possible Baldelli would have been a Phillie long ago. The only reason Zimmerman would be available is for payroll and the Nats would dictate the terms especially if they were sending him in division. They’d have to relocate again if they made that kind of deal, he’s to them what Braun is to the Brewers.

57. mike Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Yeah plus I heard they are going to try to be more competitve and spend some more on freeagents. but its nice to dream. knowing that we have a couple of years before howard leaves. Wouldn’t it be nice if the phillies owners went out and spent some real money on a starter like burnett or lowe to follow Hamels and put donald at third and get a good leftfielder like bradley. our payroll would be high this year but next we let myers walk at 12 million and jenkins and eaton at 16 total that’s 28 million plus felix 3 million so its a one year hit in my opinion. its would be a great thanksgiving present.

58. KM Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    The nats could be competitive next season if they could sure up their first base and outfield situations. Their starters were pretty good last year, and their bullpen has been good for a number of years, they just couldn’t score runs. If the Nats go out and get teixeira, and stop trying to hit lastings milledge at cleanup, they could compete next season. I am not saying they can win the division, but adding tex in would make zimmerman a better hitter, and they already have guzman, so that would make the first half of their lineup a formidable group.

59. KM Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    Phils should sign Lowe, if they can get him for 14-16 mil a year. And they should make a trade for a corner outfielder.

60. Phillies Phan SC Says:
    November 27th, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    I still think the Nats could overtake the Braves and Marlins if they trade right this off-season. Braves MAY surprise me, but unless they add on their pitching staff – regardless of their Hall of Fame status (if they sign Maddux) is getting older. No offense against any of them, they may surprise me. The Marlins keep making one-sided trades – and not in their benefit… Therefore, I do not see anyone leaving the Nats for the Phillies unless they take something big from us. Just my opinion though… I still think it will be the Mets and us battling it out. I do hope we can take the Mets. I am hoping they sign K-Rod, who may not be the best relief choice on the market.

61. mike Says:
    November 28th, 2008 at 9:10 am

    How can Fuentes want lidges type money, he isn’t a proven top reliever.

62. Tim Say: Says:
    November 28th, 2008 at 11:56 am

    There is no way that the Phils should go with Moyer, except as a last option for this year. They need to be more aggressive, and go out and get a top of the rotation starter like Lowe or Burnett ( but they will both sign for no less 4yrs./60 mill. The other option is to explore Jake Peavy ,he will be expensive,but we can’t allow a division rival to get him and him kill us for years to come. If the Phils can do nothing else but land a big starter and a big bat for left or third then I’ll be happy. Jermaine Dye, Ryan Zimmerman, (never happen) Chone Figgins as the exactly the type of hitter that the Phils need a legit #2

63. Manny Says:
    November 29th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    “Dan Connolly talked to A.J. Burnett’s agent, and it seems like he has narrowed down his list of potential teams he would want to go to. Darek Braunecker said that Burnett narrowed his list down to six teams.

    The teams still in the mix are said to be the: Orioles, Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Phillies, and Braves.”

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/85965-burnett-has-narrowed-his-list-from-12-teams-to-six-teams

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