Phillies Nation

79 Responses to “Report: Phillies A Logical Fit For Holliday”

1. Amanda Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 4:35 pm

   Id give up Happ. Not sure if Id want to give up Carrasco.

2. Chris.I Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

   I think we all know my answer to this question….Absolutely! Like I said before, atleast we get a full season of service out of him. Besides, who’s to say we wouldn’t be able to afford him after the end of the season? Especially with Thome, and Eatons contract ending. That would free up some money.

3. Phil Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

   The Phillies should trade for Holliday and sign him long term. He’s 27 or 28 I think. Throwing him in with that core of incredible home grown talent will keep us competitive for years. I wouldn’t lock up Howard though. I’d let him walk in 2011 or trade him before the 2011 season starts. By that point you can have Michael Taylor ready to play 1B or RF or something. I’m sure Donald will be in the organization as well. Maybe he could play 2B and Utley can move to 1B. There are several things you can do with this. Blow up payroll. You will sell out every game next year if you’re winning constantly with an incredible core of players.

4. mbtoole Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

   Feliz and Jenkins also come off the books after 2009 (albeit with buyouts).

5. Manny Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

   MAYBE if somehow they can guarantee that he’ll stay for more than one year. Our LF problem will not go away by 2010. Eaton and Burrell leaving would give us some money to go after Holliday but sending Happ and Carrasco would really limit our possibilities for the 5th starting pitcher. I rather be conservative and point out that PITCHING (much more than Hitting) is the reason we are World Champions today.

6. Geoff Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

   I honestly, really, want NOTHING to do with these guys from colorado. They ALL go elsewhere and then bust. I dont want any of their hitters at all. They all just go bust somewhere. Atkins….bust, Taveras…cant get on base, Holliday? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overrated.

   I think that whoever gets and signs this guy long term to big money is making the next big mike hampton barry zito mistake. I GUARANTEE that.

   Theres no reason to do that at all. Ludwick, Willingham, Byrnes, etc, are all equally attractive options who can contribute. Id rather see them trade for a LF/RF not named matt holliday or anyone from colorado. no way.

7. Geoff Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

   tahts exactly right…their pitching held up this year. thats the MAIN reason why they won. staters and bullpen really carried this team all year. the hitting was TERRIBLE most of the regular season. too many strikeouts. now you want to add another strike out guy (he will be when he leaves colorado, just watch).

8. Chris.I Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

   Maybe Kendrick/Carpenter could peak their interest?

9. Chris.I Says:
   November 6th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

   Geoff how is Holliday overrated? I don’t understand that logic one bit. He’s def an upgrade over Burrell, Bradley, and any other possibilities out there (except maybe Ordonez and Manny) which I agree is out of our price range at the moment. Your talking about strikeouts? He had less K’s than Burrell, Bradley, and Ramirez..What are you talking about?

10. Manny Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    Yea Geoff. I believe that our top priority should be getting a very good starting pitcher. If we’re gonna spend 10 million or more on just one guy, we should bring Lowe or someone like him. I’m afraid that if we make this Holliday-trade, we would not reinforce our pitching staff, ESPECIALLY when our pitchers are not the most reliable in the world:

    1. What if Hamels gets injured at some point? Our rotation just crumbles!
    2. What if “bad” Myers shows up again?
    3. What if Moyer suddenly gets too old?
    4. What if Joe the pitcher goes back to a par season (his postseason numbers were way too good)
    5. What if Kendrick doesn’t get his mojo back?
    6. Happ? Still needs to prove himself fully.
    7. Carrasco…sounds good but is he completely ready?

    When I look at out pitching, it looks really good, but really vulnerable at the same time. PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING. Forget Matt Holliday till we get another solid pitcher in our rotation. And we better leave that bullpen intact!

11. Manny Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    Manny is right. And as much as it would be nice to have both pitching AND a good left fielder I just don’t see us getting marquee players for both spots, and our pitching staff does have a lot of question marks.

    The phillies do have money to spend this year but after we lock up hamels and howard, we may only have enough left for one of the two positions for superstars.

12. Manny (the real one) Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Hey “other” Manny get a different username!

13. Chris.I Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    Where is Tim at? I want to know what Tim thinks about this. What’s your personal oppinion on this? Would you think we’ll sign Holliday? Or address our pitching?

14. From Section 113 Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    Interesting…I believe in pitching depth and we would sarifice some of that depth for 1 yr of Holliday.

    It would mean you would be going ALL out in ‘09. We would get 2 draft picks for him which would be nice.

    I wouldn’t do it though. I would take Burrell over Holliday.

15. Chris.I Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Manny, let me find out you have two split personalities haha.

16. Jim Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Ah! Sorry guys and sorry manny, that second manny post was me. I’m a little braindead today.

17. Jim Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Section 113, you know going all out in ‘09 would not upset me, instead of playing it safe. I mean we got our championship but let’s be hungry for more. These days winning the title two years in a row is considered a dynasty in this day of free agency and league parity. Let’s not just be another name on the list , lets make our name known!

18. Don Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Lets sign Holliday and Lowe and call it a wrap. Rack the payroll up to $150 million. I mean why the hell not?

19. cm Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    Is Xavier Nady available? His numbers are .305 BA/25 HR/97 RBI but for around $4 million.

20. Jim Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Don- because were better than those big markets in LA Boston and the 2 new yorks. We don’t have to buy a championship, we earn it. Sorry for sounding pompous and i’m sure the mets trolls will have a blast with that comment but it’s true. I was so happy that this year Philly (which is actually a large market but small compared to others) and Tampa Bay made it, both teams werent even in the top 10 in payroll

21. Griffin Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    John Heyman (who has great insider info) just said on WFAN that “the Phillies are the most aggressive pursuers of Holliday and that the Rockies want Victorino, but the Phillies are reluctant.” He mentioned Marson, Donald and Carrasco and also mentioned that since it’s a one year rental, that the Rockies aren’t going to get as much as they want.

22. Jim Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    Oh Halliday for Victorino. Not worth it. Sure halliday is better offensivley that victorino but then we have a huge hole at center field now. Replacing one hole with another.

    Plus, do we really need a guy like Matt Holliday? Let’s be frank, our offense is solid even without pat burrell ,and i’m sure if we stick a much cheaper, more defense oreintated guy like milton bradley in there and stick him in the 5 hole, he could put some great numbers. Hell I could hit well if I was hitting in front of or behind ryan howard.

    All in all, I think that losing victorino is tough, hes a spark plug for this team and also a switch hitter and a great center fielder.

23. Chris.I Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    Jim are you forgetting that we did earn it? It’s okay to jump the bandwagon once in awhile, and become a part of that dynasty you mentioned. Go Phils!

24. T Marty Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    can’t give up Vic. i got that Steely Dan song “Do it Again” in my head. Holiday would help, but giving up the farm for a rental, yikes.

25. Manny Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Anyone has news on Lowe? Are we going after the guy? cause we should…

26. Chris.I Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    Yea screw that Sh*t. Vic isn’t going nowhere. Amaro wouldn’t be that dumb to make an absurd trade like that in his first year. That doesn’t make sense giving up a key guy for a one year rental. If thats the case the Rox can keep him.

27. Dennis Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    I would love to have Holliday wearing red pinstripes next season. He is an incredible hitter, but I’m not giving Victorino for him. I’d give 2 or 3 solid prospects cause Holliday is that good.

28. From Section 113 Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Jim- I understand netting Holliday would make us REALLY good but now if it takes Vic that’s even worse.

    I would do Carrasco/Golson/Savery/Galvis.

    Why these 3?

    I think we can survive the loss of Carrasco AND Savery but not Marson and Donald. I think the lateer 2 will have better careers than the former 2.

29. Maverick Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    The answer is simple.

    No Manny. No Holliday. And we Let Pat walk (he’s luckier than he is good)

    We platoon left field and if its not working out we look for a trade before the july deadline.

    Right now we focus on adding depth to the rotation. We need a solid #2.

    If our starting rotation gets banged up and pitches less innings that taxes out bull pen.. The BP is less effective. we lose games. There’s more pressure on Hamles to pull the weight.. its a slippery slope.

    a rotation of…

    1-Hamels
    2-(Lowe, Peavy)
    3 Myers
    4 Blanton
    5 Moyer
    Swing – Kendrick, Corrasco, Happ

    Would put us in good position to repeat.

    Assume lose burrel and platoon left field.

30. Maverick Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    You absolutely do not give up Victorino.

    Not only is he a great personality on the team. He carried the team for a while during the season. Not to mention his post season play.

31. Manny Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    I agree with everything you just said, Maverick. First things first!

32. J-Man Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Offer J.A. Happ,Kyle Kendrick,and Greg Golson…Holliday would be fine here we play in a hitters park as well.

33. Sean Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    I’d be cautious about a trade for holliday. I have no doubt he’ll be good in philly, even great, but is it worth giving up carrasco, donald or marson? I don’t see us resigning him at the end of 2009 and I don’t know if the two draft picks are worth a one year rental. and don’t even begin to think about trading vic. I say play for a starter, and only make a holliday deal that makes sense (i.e: one that doesn’t involve us losing a ton of our farm players).

34. timb Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    please Ruben… don’t trade Victorino.

35. Ryan John Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    I agree with Maverick…
    If you add another stud pitcher to this team, they’re in position to repeat no matter who is playing the corner outfield spots.
    Pitching won it for us this year and can win it for us again if Rube makes the right move.

36. Derek Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Keep in mind Burrell wears (or wore) number 5…….and Holliday wears number 5….coincidence? I think not

37. Steve Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    I had it on good authority during the season that Victorino would not be going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Even though we won the WS, Id still have to take the source for his word, especially considering that the source is now the new GM.

    Id love to have Holliday in LF, but I would never give up Vic for him, especially if its only 1 year.

38. Bruce Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    From Rotoworld:

    Matt Holliday – OF Nov. 6 – 5:00 pm et

    The Phillies are aggressively pursuing Matt Holliday, sources told
    SI.com’s Jon Heyman.

    The A’s, Mets and Rays have also been mentioned in connection with
    Holliday. The Phillies tried to trade for both Holliday and Brian
    Fuentes in July, with Shane Victorino, Carlos Carrasco, Lou Marson and
    others possibly going to Colorado. The Phillies would likely make
    every attempt to hold on to Victorino now. That would leave Carrasco
    as the centerpiece of a deal.

    Source: SI.com

39. JimC Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    Where did victorinos name even come from? He’s a fan favorite everybdy loves him here in philly. That’s like trading dykstra after the 93 season. F that man but I wud give carrasco for holliday b4 I give happ for holliday. Carrasco has good stuff but he will never amount to the hype he has

40. Sam Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Holliday for Carrasco?

    That is a nail biter.

    At the very least, Holliday would be a type A and grab us a few draft picks.

    If it were anybody less than Holliday, I would pull the trigger in a heartbeat, but I wouldn’t trade Vic.

41. MA Phanatic Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Not Vic. I’d give up the farm for Holliday though. Carrasco, Marson, Donald, Happ (not all 4 but some combination)

    Whoever keeps mentioning Kendrick needs to get real. NO TEAM wants Kyle Kendrick, especially Colorado. It’s going to take some combo of Carrasco and Happ/Marson/Donald IMO.

42. MA Phanatic Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    btw, I do not envy Amaro right now. What a tough spot to be in. Either way a good chunk of Philly fans will immediately think he’s an idiot concerning this trade.

43. SJ Mike Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Carrasco seems to be the golden boy that is “untouchable.” Maybe I haven’t seen enough of him, but I was never sold on him as this phenom.

    I wouldn’t want to give up Lou Marson. He’s a solid right handed hitter who is a good catcher. Chris Coste isn’t going to be the backup for much longer and I have more faith in Marson over Jaramillo. Maybe that’s because I’ve seen more of Marson, but that’s just my two cents.

    I don’t know if Holliday is worth it. I will never forget during the 2007 season that the Phillies won a game because Holliday literally couldn’t find a ball in the left field corner.

44. Pete Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    O’Dowd is an idiot who can be fleeced if Amaro plays it correctly. Offer him one or the other of Carrasco/Happ along with Golson and Kendrick and I bet you could get it done. If the Phils do that, though, they have to be willing to bite the bullet and sign Holliday long-term, which means bringing payroll up to $150-160MM. It is simply not worth trading 2 major league starters and decent OF prospect for a 1-year rental of anyone.

    All of that said, I’d rather see the Phils trade Carrasco, Happ, and Donald or Taylor for Peavy, who would solidify the top our starting rotation for years to come.

45. grrrumpy miner Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    Holliday for Victorino is a good building block.Whats scary is……most people want to give retreaded junk for gold.For a fair trade to get something good,you have to give something good…other than Ed Wade (See Lidge trade) why would everyone want to help the Phillies and kill themselves.Plus 2 words I can think of when it comes to Rockies big boppers….Dante Bichette.

46. mikemike Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Maybe there is someone who can explain to me this. We trade the best right hand pitcher in baseball at the time to arizona for a 20 game losing pitcherwho was 38 year old lame . lame duck relief pitcher and a sore arm low level pitching prospect. and he had two years on his contract. Holiday for one year they want victortino happ or marson or carrasco, why give up so much for one year. Rather go to san francisco and see if we can get rowland back for a couple of players like maybe happ and someone lower in the system like galvis.

47. Pete Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    grrrrrumpy – Holliday for Victorino is a ridiculous suggestion and if Amaro does it he should be run out of town on a rail. Holliday is going to test the market after the year, and with Boras as his agent and MVP-caliber talent will command a king’s ransom. He’s already turned down 4/68 from Colorado. As I posted above, the Phils need to be willing to break the bank to sign him if they do make a trade, but trading Vic only hurts that cause.

    There is no sane reason for the Phils to trade away a gold glove CF who will hit at least .280 with 10-15 HR, 35+ SB, and who is cheaply under their control to get a 1-year rental of Holliday. For starters, the trade doesn’t plug the hole in LF, it simply opens one at center. The Phils would be worse off than before, having added salary, lost flexibility, and not filled out their starting outfield.

48. SJ Mike Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    Yeah! What Pete said!

49. T Mac Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    Wow, Maverick said just about everything I wanted to say.

    I don’t want Holliday – just look at his splits the last three years:

    Home .361 62 HR 219 RBI 1.099 OPS
    Away .296 33 HR 120 RBI .856 OPS

    Let’s pick up Baldelli to platoon in LF with Jenkins/Dobbs and a true #2 like Lowe.

    I would be thrilled with our offseason if all we did was drop Burrell, re-sign Eyre and Moyer, and pick up Baldelli and Lowe or someone like him.

50. Memphis Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    If you can get Holliday relatively cheaply (no Vic, maybe no Carrasco), why wouldn’t you do it? The Rocks know they can’t ask for too much for a potential rental. And if our major competition for him is Oakland and St.Louis, why not step up, take a shot? No one is suggesting we blow up the farm — the Rocks can ask for the moon, we don’t have to give it, but we will have to give up something. Also (I’m not suggesting we give up Vic but….) Vic had a career year, his value is high, let’s not get too emotional about him. Another guy whose value is sky-high is Madsen, who is a FA after 2009. Just thinking.

    All that said, priority money should go toward a pitcher, but I hear nothing about us going for Lowe. Phils, just thinking out loud, may be more inclined to take a look at Brad Penny or Odalis Perez, just like B-list Blanton. BUT if we’re settling on Hamels-Myers-Blanton-Moyer-Happ/Carrasco, why not improve in another area? Go for it again in 2009. Do something. Don’t settle for a mish-mash in LF and hope and pray on Moyer holding up. Let’s go get better.

51. Jim Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    T-MAC, his splits are so big because he plays at hitter friendly coors field, but don’t forget he’d becomign to hitter friendly, arguably more so, citizens bank park. Besides, load him up in the middle of howard and utley and his numbers will skyrocket. Anybodys numbers would.

    Also, all this talk about holliday being expensive. That may be true but remember this. We are still under the $100 million dollar mark, which is huge for such a large market. AND figure this, we don’t have to pay Burrell 14 million next year, so we wouldnt be spending anymore money on a left fielder than we have been for the past 8 years, and this left fielder is arguably a better ball player.

52. Mike N Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    I’m with the “pitching first” crowd. I’d rather give up a lot of minor league talent for Peavey than Holliday. Speaking of Peavey, how long is he signed for/under control?

53. Matt Kwasiborski Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    I think Holliday is an excellent replacement for Burrell. I am not sure about giving up Vic but Carrasco and or Happ I would do it. But say if they give up Vic, you have Werth going to CF and platoon in RF with Dobbs/Golson. I think the Phils want to see if Golson can play in the show. And if we get Holliday and move Werth to the #2 hole, we can let Golson develop in the 8 spot.

    And if Holliday is a one-year rental they will be in the same position next year. It is intriguing for sure.

    Remember that no one said we could win the WS in our small park or in Coors Field. And who is the last two representatives from the NL in the Series? And we have one win- so you can win in our parks. Plus, Coors Field isn’t the hitters paradise like it once was with the humidior balls being utilized.

54. Pete Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Mike N, I believe Peavy is signed for 3/48 (from ‘09-’11)

55. Pete Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    I stand corrected. According to Cot’s, he’s signed through 2013.

56. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    I said it was a good start….however,I can’t see any team wanting to just trade Filet Mignon for Cat Food just to get rid of a player.Does it happen,yes it does and has happened for a long time.Everyone wants Holliday but wants to give the Rox basically nothing in return.I have an idea….lets see you guys play Ruben Amaro Jr,What would be a FAIR trade for Holliday (and that includes real blue chip minor leaguers that are Major League ready)

57. Pete Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    Happ or Carrasco, plus Kendrick and Golson. Is that “fair”? Depends on if O’Dowd takes it, I guess. He’s getting 2 ML-ready arms and an OF prospect with tons of speed. If I’m the Phils, that’s the absolute ceiling for me to rent Holliday for one year, and I’d try to do it for even less than that.

    Bottom line is that the Rockies screwed up when they didn’t move Holliday last year (whether with Fuentes or not). Then, the price could have been much higher, since it would have been a year and a half worth of Holliday, including for the playoff push. If the offer on the table for the Phils was Holliday AND Fuentes for Carrasco/Happ/Vic/Marson, then an offer at this stage has got to be much lower than that. I understand that the Rockies need to get value back, but if they can’t find a trade partner they just get draft picks – they know it and so does every other GM in the league. Why trade an established GG CF to a team that will only get more desperate as time goes by.

    The Rox just don’t hold the same leverage they used to, and if they wait till the deadline this year they run the risk of having even less (though they could have more, depending on the needs of contending teams). O’Dowd is in a bit of a bind right now, and I think Holliday can be had for a discount relative to his talent.

58. Chris.I Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    You don’t give up Happ or Carrasco PLUS Kendrick and Golson..That’s a little too much bait. Maybe something like Happ/Kendrick and a low prospect.

59. SJ Mike Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    I’d like to keep Happ around. Kendrick though should be a definite trading chip.

60. Jim Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 9:24 pm

    I agree SJ Mike. Kendrick is actually good trade bait. He’s fresh off his stint in the minors. Thing to remember, a lot of clubs looking to rebuild could want him. Sure he strugged last season but hes only 23! And he’s shown great promise when his stuff is on.

    Maybe the bluejays will trade for kendrick and some farm talent for roy halladay….

61. mikemike Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    Let’s see Madson want’s rivera money. Boras is nut’s but most of his players get payed. So I Would now approach Colorado with Madson and minor league for Holiday. Madson will want big dollars and if we wait he is free agent next year with I am guessing no compenstation. Get rid of him now and get something.I always thought SJMike was realistic with his post but Kendrick come on who wants a low velocity, two pitch pitcher who can’t get out lefthand hitters and has had one of the highest run support teams behind him. but I guess no other teams see his numbers come on get real.

62. Matt Kwasiborski Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    Then who sets up Lidge?

63. SJ Mike Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    Mikemike, Kendrick has spent his entire stint in Florida and this offseason developing a changeup. He’s going to be a 3 pitch pitcher soon enough. He also has shown that he can have success in the big leagues. I think there are smaller market teams out there who would love a pitcher like Kendrick, one of which could be Colorado.

64. Cobob22 Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Pitching should always be put first. Don’t do it!

65. RichieAllen Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    The key to all these questions still centers on Burrell……Do we or dont we go 3 yrs and at least 12-14 mil per year….Cause if we keep him there is no need for any of these other outfeilders..
    Plus will the phils go to 150 mil per year and sign a big time pitcher?Lowe, Peavy?Dont think do..
    I will bet the Phanatic’s ATV that we will sign Burrell,Moyer& Eyre..,keep the prospects,give raises to the current core players with arbitration,and not change too much.

66. Nation Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    visit snatchsports.com for sports controversy

67. Jim Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    Mikemike I have to pile it on you here.

    If anything your supporting kendricks case. He pitched extremely well his rookie year and for a good part of 2008. If hes only 23 with low velocity and 2 pitches, and hes doing.. average… I’d like to see him when he comes back with 3 or 4 pitches.

68. RichieAllen Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    Also on Burrell….He filed for free agency today.
    The more time goes by with us not making a decision on Burrell,the more expensive he will become.
    Some american league team will give him something substantial as a DH…
    We should either make a quick decision ,sign him,or go after someone else now.
    Maybe thats what we are actually doing….I wish I were a fly on the wall in Ruben’s office.

69. Griffin Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    No one wants Kendrick.

    Keith Law of ESPN mentioned that a package of Carrasco, Donald and Taylor might get it done. Remember, that the team getting Holliday will get two top picks once Holliday signs with someone else as a free agent.

    So you’re getting one year of Holliday and two top picks.

70. SJ Mike Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 11:14 pm

    I sincerely believe that Kendrick has a lot more stock then everyone is giving him credit for. Recent memory is negative for him, but he did win over 20 games in less then a season and a half with an above .500 record. He’s 23, developing a 3rd pitch (changeup) and has potential to be a solid number 3-5 starter.

    He may not have the clout and appeal that a prospect like Carrasco has, but he does have a one up on him: he has pitched to major league hitters for quite some time and has had success. That is appealing to teams.

    I’m not saying Kendrick will bring high profile, high caliber talent by himself, but certainly part as a 2 or 3 for 1 package.

71. Jim Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Just a note. The phils want to have their payroll around $130 mil by the spring training. Currently we are at about 100 (98 i think). But mind you that is last years (2008) payroll and includes burrell, who according to ESPN.com made 14.25 million dollars last year. So the phils actually have about 50 million dollars of payroll to work with.

    I guess we can just clone alex rodriguez, we can now afford 2 of him

72. Griffin Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    Don’t forget the arbitration raises for Hamels, Madson, Howard and Bruntlett (unless they DFA him).

73. Phillies Phan SC Says:
    November 7th, 2008 at 2:02 am

    Happ has his ring, I say it is worth the trade. I would also sneak Eaton in it for them.

74. Lewisauce Says:
    November 7th, 2008 at 4:35 am

    I think we have to keep Vic, and it’s not because of the emotional, he’s-a-hero-right-now stuff. I think it’s simple economics. He’s cheap (made $480,000 in ‘08), plays gold-glove defense, has top-level speed and contributes enough offensively and intangibly to justify the proverbial “don’t mess with something that works” assessment.

    I’m not sure how much longer Vic is under team control, but even if he’s due for a raise, he’ll be a heckuva lot cheaper than any Holliday/FA options and you get a lot from him. Why would you trade a guy who does a good job on the cheap for a guy who does a good job at Boras prices for ONE YEAR only? And, as others have pointed out, this would leave a hole in center field. So you’re paying Boras Billions to Holliday, and you still might have to sign someone to play CF anyway.

    I’m open to a Holliday trade (in my mind, it’s just replacing Burrell with Holliday), but not for Vic. I’d try the prospect package (Carrasco OR Happ, plus ONE position player (Marson/Donald/Golson/etc.), plus a throw-in guy from the lower levels), and if Colo doesn’t take it, no biggie.

75. Lewisauce Says:
    November 7th, 2008 at 4:40 am

    Question: How much will Hamels get in arbitration this year?

    Tim, maybe you have some thoughts? And everyone else, I’m curious what you think the predicted price will be. I actually have no real idea myself. Ruben Amarsehole Jr. said he wasn’t concerned about Hamels, that Hamels wasn’t a priority, etc. (which shows the hell we are in for during the pending “Amarro Era”).

    But I want to know how much he will get.

    Just ideas:

    Hamels: $6 million
    Howard: $12 million
    Madson: $3.5 million

    Am I way off? And what does this mean for overall payroll (I don’t have time to do the math right now)?

    Thoughts?

76. mikemike Says:
    November 7th, 2008 at 8:02 am

    I believe most people agree Kendrick isn’t going to get you anything, Even when he was winning it was with as I stated before a high run support. Look at his numbers. If people think he is worth anything they are just dreaming. Carrasco,donald, taylor is crazy to give up unless you will sign him long term. The braves can get peavy but wouldn’t give up there top prospect. and peavy is a great pitcher who on the phillies makes them the favorite. I believe Hamels gets 5-6 milion Howard will go to 14-15 range and Madson 3 million. If I am the phillies I would use Madson to go get a left fielder as a boras client he is going to be a pain to sign.

77. The Voice of Reason Says:
    November 7th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Being reasonable here. This is what we know.
    1) Holliday will be a 1 year rental with Boras as his agent, and us needing to sign Hamels and Howard at some point.

    2) Holliday is our type of guy. Hard nosed, gamer, balls to the wall type of guy.

    3) Holliday will hit very well in the 4 or 5 hole. He won’t strike out as much as Burrell, but he won’t walk as much as Burrell either. He’s fielding is an obvious up grade, but not a huge upgrade.

    4) No need to trade Vic or Johnny Wacko for the guy being that you’d still have a hole in the OF.

    We would need to trade legit prospects that the Rockies would want.
    I could see a trade including:
    a) Kendrick (he’s going to get groundballs, he’s only 24 and he’s proven he can win at the big league level. I know he sucked the 2nd half of this year)
    b) d’Arnoud – He’s blocked by Marson and Ruiz and he is a legit big league hitting catching prospect.
    c) Donald – He’s a strong utility guy in the waiting who will eventually become a starting IF. See Polanco/Punto/Derosa
    d) Golson – He’s still young and still raw, but he has the potential to cover some ground in that OF.

    I’d only include one top tier pitcher in the deal, period. (Kendrick-Happ-Carrasco-Carpenter, etc.)

78. MadSon Says:
    November 7th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    RichieAllen

    Pat has said that he doesn’t want to be a DH, that is why Cholly didn’t use him in that role in Tampa. Not to mention his numbers as a DH are god awful.

79. Memphis Says:
    November 9th, 2008 at 12:06 am

    Kyle (Philadelphia): Do the Phillies have the prospects to get Holliday?

    Keith Law: Carrasco, Donald, Taylor? Why not? I’m not saying they will do it, but the Rockies would have to listen to that, right?

    KLaw just is saying the Phils have prospects worth considering, not that this is the package that would get Holliday. It could be less, it could be more. Cards have reportedly offered Ludwick (30), Schumaker (28), both were in the minors in 2007, and some dude named Mitchell Boggs. No high-end prospects.
    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8770300/Value-of-Holliday,-Atkins-questioned

    To me, Ludwick and Schumaker are basically leftovers who just popped on the radar this year. That would be a steal for StL. We should be able to do better.

    Holliday is gettable for a year.

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