Phillies Nation

44 Responses to “8 Players Remain In Arbitration Pool”

1. Ed Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am

   I would lock up Hamels for 5 to 7 years as you said. Next would be Victorino for 3-5 years and lastly Madson for 3 years. I know Madson will probably wind up leaving so he can get marketed as a closer but honestly, it never hurts to have a backup closer which is exactly what Madson is. He is young and seems to be getting better. After that, I would let Howard go year to year, same thing with Dobbs, Durbin and Blanton. I am not totally sold on Durbin yet, I think Dobbs is ok going year to year and Blanton we have for I think another year after this year. Werth is the only one I am not sure of. I do like Werth and I do think he will continue to get better, he is solid in the field and on the bases, I would be cool with seeming him locked up for 2-3 years.

2. Megary Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:11 am

   Howard and Hamels are the only two with irreplaceable skills and the only two worth committing to long term. Still, I think we are a year away from movement on this front. In the end, the Phils aren’t likely to keep them both and possibly neither. I look for Howard to be dealt at some point and Hamels to be offered a Brink’s truck full of it.

   Vic would be nice, but I wouldn’t look for a long term deal there. Maybe 3 years max.

3. Geoff Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:15 am

   No Long-Term Offers: Howard, Durbin, Dobbs.

   Long-term offers in order of Priority:

   Hamels (hardest to get done: 6 years MAD money)
   victorino (4 years)
   blanton (if he pitches well to start the season: 3 years 28-30mm?)
   werth (shouldnt be hard to extend: 4 years)
   madson (probably wont work: boras will make him test free agency: once it fails you can dangle him for starting pitching at the trade deadline if you need to bolster the staff)

4. Don M Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:17 am

   I said before that buying out Hamels for the remainder of his arbitration years, and the first two years of his Free Agent period would be a good way to go.. I think that would be a 5 year contract from this point, making him 29 at the end of this deal, but giving the Phillies leverage to extend that contract whenever they wanted, if they wanted. No need to do anything crazy like 8-10 years… 7 years for a pitcher is a long, long time

   Howard should not be offered a long-term deal unless he’s backed off his demands for A-Rod type money.. no player is worth $20 M a year, especially not one that sets records for K’s, and hits .250 only after mashing in September.

   The offense turned it on in the postseason thanks not to HRs but from consistent, timely hitting… from guys like Werth, Feliz, Ruiz… Howard is a great talent, but there is no need to pay him extra money right now.

   I think Werth and Victorino also need to be locked up because they are all-around players that can play any OF spot, hit anywhere in the lineup, steal bags, throw out runners.. all the little things that can turn a game around.

5. Manny Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am

   In this order,

   1. Hamels (5 years at least, pretty obvious)
   2. Victorino (get him while he’s kinda cheap, at least 4 years)
   3. Madson (he’s getting better… he will probably be cheaper now than by the end of 2009.. and we need him back-to-back with Lidge)
   4. Werth (sure, he’s been injured often…but precisely that could help us get him cheap and for good number of years.. I’d say 3-4. We need to secure our right-handed batter).

   Keep Howard on arb…year by year looks like the best option.

6. Manny Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:23 am

   Since we didn’t get any “expensive” players like Lowe to improve our team, I’m expecting the FO to give long-term deals to at least two of the players I mentioned above.

7. Don M Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:24 am

   You could lock up Werth for 3 years, $18 M right now… if you wait, and he has a 30 HR, 85+ RBI season.. he jumps up to $10 M per season (Don’t be surprised if he makes you forget about Pat Burrell in the #5 spot!)

   Victorino is better and cheaper than Aaron Rowand, but now he needs to get paid.. a gold glove means he’s worth at least $5 M per season.. I doubt he wants to go too long on a contract though.. I’m guessing you can get him for 3-4 years at $20-25 M total

   Madson already said he’s going to test the Free Agent market.. He could get paid as a closer ($7-8 M per season), or stay with the Phillies as a setup man ($3-4 M per season?)… you know he at least will test the market, but maybe stay around as Lidge would only have 2 years left on his contract, Madson could be the closer in waiting.. and a lifetime Phillie

   If Blanton won’t become a Free Agent, there is no need to extend him.. only pay him what you need to, and see what happens with your own draft picks, some of whom project better than Blanton, and would only cost a fraction of the price, for multiple years

8. Ed Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:28 am

   Locking up Hamels, Vic and Madson, or at least the first two is really the only way I would be ok with the money not being spent in the Free Agent Market.

9. Don M Says:
   December 18th, 2008 at 11:31 am

   not to start an arguement, but Werth hasn’t been “injured often”… he got hit with an AJ Burnett fastball that shattered his wrist… and his first surgery to fix it didn’t work, so thats why it took like 2 years to get back. GREAT signing by Gillick cause Werth is a 1st round draft pick that can definitely play. It took a while for his power to come back, but he has 30+ HRs in him this season

   Tommy LaSorda was trying to get Gillick to work for the Dodgers before Gillick came here.. and the Dodgers were PISSED that they didn’t have the room for Werth because they thought he’d be a stud

   With him and Victorino, we have a nice outfield if we can keep them toghether for the next few years

10. Geoff Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    I presume that Carrasco will replace Myers in the rotation, and someone else will be ready in time to replace moyer. but im not sure about how many other guys they can bring up within 2-3 years for the rotation. maybe one or two. so signing blanton ffor 3 years might buy some time for the younger guys in teh system to be ready. other than carrasco, assuming happ is the 5 already, who really has a shot? savery projects as a setup man or late reliever not really a starter. bastardo? eh, lets see if he has a good year again…michaeul stutes could be ready in 3 years with consistent performance. kyle drabek would be ready to replace moyer if he stays healthy and returns to form….

    so out of all those guys (including carrasco) you figure two fo them will make it to join happ in the rotation. so youll have hamels – 2 – happ – carrasco – drabek/savery/bastardo/stutes. if its not apparent that two of those last 4 will be bonafide rotation pieces, then it makes sense to sign blanton for 3 years, giving ample time to get them and others ready to replace him.

11. MA Phanatic Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    Hamels is a must, and Victorino would nice if the price is right. Madson will command too much money, he’s as good as gone. I’d let howard go year to year because any long term deal is going to cost us $18 mil a year anyways, why not go year to year, it forces him to prove his talent year after year. I’d go year to year with everyone else as well.

12. Chuck P Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Re: Hamels… buying out arbitration is a good idea if he’s willing to be bought. There have been no indications that he wants to do anything. Do we have to sign Hamels “long-term” right now? No. He’s not eligible to become a free-agent until 2013… that’s three years (an eternity for pitchers). If he wants to have reasonable discussion about a 5-6 year deal, great but I dont think he will.

    Howard… we missed the boat. Last year’s arbitration debacle screwed everything up. We could have probably offered him a 3 or 4 year deal for what he wanted last year and he might have accepted (buying out arbitration) but we low-balled, he won and now he’s looking at $15 million of arbitration money. A contract would probably mean $19 million per… we’re not gonna do it. We can offer him a reasonable deal but he’s not gonna take it.

    Werth… FA after this season. I’m probably willing to let him test the market.

    Vic… FA 2012. Lock him up 5-6… we don’t have a CF close to being ML ready on the farm. When we traded Golson, it told me that we were ready to make Vic our CF of the Phuture.

    Durbin… FA 2011. Year by year. He’s a setup man for us so let’s not go crazy.

    Blanton… FA 2011. Lock him up 4-5. His value is still low and his potential is high. The guy began to turn it around at the end of ‘08. I think he’s going to be a pleasant surprise.

13. Don M Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    I think Hamels is a FA after 2011 season…. 6 years under team control, and he’s been in the league for 3 years already.

    If you let Werth test the market, he’ll leave because he’s a 5-tool player with upside. He’s like 29 now, so he’s still got a number of good seasons left.

    Same thing with Victorino.. less power than Werth, but more of a “sparkplug” his name alone will be worth more money than Werth.

    Durbin had a great season overall…his 1st half was amazing, his 2nd half not soo much.. he was overused, so lets see him excel in a more limited role

14. Geoff Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    extending hamels, victorino, and werth mean that madson and myers are basically automatically gone. myers is way gone after this year, thats why id explore the market for him now and try to land a rotation ready starter in return if someone will go for it..blantons debateable but id do it for security if he gives you a good price.

15. Craig Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    1. Hamles
    2. Hamles
    3. Hamles

16. Don M Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    Geoff, why would anyone give us a “rotation ready starter” for Myers if we’re getting rid of him because he’s due to become a Free Agent..

    They’d either give us prospects, but none that were too close to Major League ready.. or pitchers in the same situation as Myers where they would lose them to FA soon anyway.

    MAYBE trade Myers at the deadline if either he or the team isn’t performing as it should.. but that would mean HIS value is low, or that the team is badly underperforming.. Perfect scenario would be our minor league pitchers tearing it up so bad that we just need to bring them up, and Myers would be having a season good enough that his trade value is high at the deadline..

17. JohnKruksLoveChild Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Don’t disagree with the overall sentiments, my list would look about the same as the rest.

    If only we could find someone to take Eaton and Jenkins, both of them are such a waste of salary. Should have a post where we talk about all the useless players we’d love to dump on the side of the Jersey Turnpike !

18. KM Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Ryan Howard, Ryan Madson, Chad Durbin

    Hamels would get 5 years, 90 mil, with a 6th year option at 18mil.

    Victorino would get 4 years, 30 mil.

    Werth would get 3 years, 24 mil.

    Blanton would get 3 years 21 mil.

    Dobbs would get 3 years 9 mil.

    As far as Madson and Durbin go, I would just take them year to year because you never know when relief pitchers are going to fizzle out. If I had to give them any contract I would not exceed 2 years.

    In the case of Howard, I would just to continue to let him go year to year as well until the number gets too high. We all know the Phillies organization will not pony up the 120 mil over 5 years to keep him here, so we might as well let him go year to year and trade him when his number is too high.

19. Mark Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Hamels, Victorino, and Howard are the rockstars of that group left for arbitration.

    Obviously, we all know what Hamels is made of and what kind of numbers he can put up consistently. Also, being a world series MVP, it’s inevitable that he has proven his worth. He deserves a lucrative long term deal.

    But hey, if it doesn’t happen for him this year at least he can find comfort in knowing he landed a hot piece of ass and a sick car. He can always sell it to make some extra dough if he finds himself struggling in this hard-pressed economy.

    Victorino has so many positive qualities, you can’t afford to give him up. He’s quick, has a great glove, a nack for making big plays, and can be labeled a clutch hitter. He can also be put virtually anywhere in the lineup and not become effected by it. In fact, it actually benefits the team majorly in most cases.

    Regardless, Victorino is a hard player to come by these days. We’ve all loved him since he came up and it would hurt us more than help us if we ever let him go. (Although, I must admit when I heard the Matt Holliday rumors, I stated “See ya, Shane!”)

    Howard is the new Donovan McNabb, minus all of the off the field controversy. I agree with Tim. Take this guy to arbitration every year, then before his contract is up (hopefully he is still putting up monsterous HR and RBI numbers) trade his ass for some young grade A prospects or battle tesed MLB players.

    I’m not a fan of Howard, never really have been since his Sophomore year. Sure, he hits a lot of HR’s and leads the league in RBI’s. But, I hate how much he strikes out and his overall mindset in the batters box. He always shakes his head “no” when he is rung up on strikes, as if he shouldn’t of struck out each of the 195 times he does it. (Yes, I know he doesn’t hold the record anymore)

    Give Cole and Shane long term deals, and ship Howard out when we’re done with him.

20. Geoff Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Im not saying its likely..there are only a few teams with “too much” pitching. the red sox come to mind, and they still are trying to sign derek lowe. i agree..id rather our prospects tear it up and they can just call up carrasco and trade myers for prospects.

    because the really obvious thing here is that brett myers is gone. theres no money for him after all these other extensions so youll either risk him not being a type A by letting him walk or you trade him before the deadline.

21. Griffin Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    I think most people are in agreement here: Hamels is the top priority with guys like Victorino, Werth and Madson coming next.
    Howard should (and will) be a year to year guy as far as arbitration goes. He’ll sign with the Yankees in 3 years, but he’s all ours for now.

22. Don M Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    I wonder how much Myers and Madson would be willing to leave on the table to stay in Philadelphia.. Burrell said he wanted to stay here.. I’ve heard Myers say that multiple times in interviews. Its a shame Myers can never put together a full season

23. Manny Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Myers will be the guy to watch next season. Since we didn’t get a good No.2, he will have to live up to his potential and win more games.

    The beginning of this season he was still adapting from the closer-to-starter swtich (both mentally and physically)… After his great second-half, he finished the postseason with a very strong performance against the Rays. So I’m cautiously optimistic with Myers for 2009. I think he can do it.. but as I’ve said in this blog so many times: with pitching, you gotta prepare for the worst.

24. Manny Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    I also think that now that he KNOWS that Hamels is the ace will do him good…. Myers ended up getting the Opening Day job, and he’d try to prove everyone that HE was the ace, trying to strike everybody out, being impatient, etc…

25. Bruce Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Megary says~”Howard and Hamels are the only two with irreplaceable skills and the only two worth committing to long term.” I totally agreed.
    To delay in committing these two future hall of famers to a long term contract would only be more costly as their achievements will continue to drive UP their value in the market.

    And why the fixation on getting rid of Myers? He is certainly cheaper to resign in the future than to go after the likes of Sheets or even Lowe. IMO, Myers is deserving of another contract as he adds a solid stability to the Phillies’ rotation.

26. Griffin Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    re: Myers, I agree. The Phillies should be looking to acquire good starting pitching, not trade it away.

27. Don M Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    This is from the USA Baseball website:

    Possible 2009 Team USA Roster
    One possible projection of Team USA’s 2009 roster, based on players survey, positional breakdown and certain variables, primarily MLB teams’ attitude toward participation by specific players.
    Position Name
    P Joey Devine
    P J.J. Putz
    P Brian Fuentes*
    P Bobby Jenks
    P Mike Gonzalez
    P Brad Lidge*
    P Cliff Lee
    P Joe Nathan*
    P Jake Peavy*
    P Scot Shields*
    P Huston Street*
    P Roy Oswalt
    P Mike Mussina
    P Joe Saunders
    C Joe Mauer
    C A.J. Pierzynski
    C Jason Varitek*
    IF Derek Jeter*
    IF Chipper Jones*
    IF Ryan Howard
    IF Alex Rodriguez*
    IF Ryan Zimmerman
    IF Chase Utley*
    IF Michael Young*
    OF B.J. Upton
    OF Curtis Granderson
    OF Raul Ibanez
    OF Matt Holliday*
    OF Vernon Wells*
    OF Ryan Braun
    * Participated in 2006 Classic

28. Don M Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    Sabathia said he defnitely wants to play.. Scott Kazmir says he wants to see the USA do better this time.. Carl Crawford, and Even Longoria both said they would play.

    And I heard Brian McCann would backup Mauer for the catcher spots. Much improved from Varitek and Schneider

    USA needs to be athletic like Cuba, DR, Japan… not just big power hitters, cause that doesn’t work..

    I’d like to see an OF of Ryan Braun, Grady Sizemore, and Curtis Granderson more than BJ Upton

29. Don M Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    Ohhh YEEAA…. Halladay is from Texas.. I just think of him as Canadian cause he plays there.. my bad yo’s

30. Bruce Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    Don M says~ “Its a shame Myers can never put together a full season.”

    Huh? Do you mean living up to expectations as the “ace”? If you look at Myers as a no 2 or 3 starter, then I think most clubs including the Phillies would be satisfied with the past accomplishments of Myers’ career when you consider that in….
    Yr 2003: 32 starts, 193 inns., 14-9 W/L, 4.43 ERA
    2004: 31 starts, 176 inns., 11-11 W/L, 5.52 ERA
    2005: 34 starts, 215 inns., 13-8 W/L, 3.72 ERA
    2006: 31 starts, 198 inns., 12-7 W/L, 3.91 ERA

31. Geoff Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    bruce, those number are for a 3 or a 4. 4.43 era is a back end starter, 5.52 era is so bad that would normally imply a demotion trade or bullpen exile. the 2’s numbers are supposed to be a shade lower than the ace’s….thats what makes the world series victory all the more impressive of a TOTAL team effort.

    if you view myers as a 3 or a 4 then hes fine. but hes not a 2. he could be someday but he hasnt really shown that yet…but still, the phillies are not going to resign him so forget about it…theres no money for him after a hamels extension

32. Don M Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    I didn’t realize his 2005 and 2006 numbers were that good… but I guess thats why we’ve all waited for him to excel and have one real breakout season

33. Griffin Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    I remember the catching being awful for team USA last time. Now they have Mauer, McCann and the best prospect in all of minor league baseball is Matt Wieters a C from the Orioles. Team USA Catching is looking good.

    A-Rod is playing for the Dominican this team. That lineup should be stacked with Hanley, Reyes, Vlad, Pujols, A-Rod, Ortiz, etc.

    Ruiz will play for Panama, Chan Ho park for Korea, Stairs for Canada, Romero for Puerto Rico. Am I missing any other Phillies?

34. Johnson Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    i think hamels and victorino are the clear choices for long term deals…where howard and durbin clearly are not…take what u can get from the big guy while he is arbitration eligible then trade him at the last minute for some arms…in 2 years at 31 yeaqrs old he will still be a huge star and probably an american league teams biggest priority

35. psujoe Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Sign Victorino and Werth and start the process for Hamels.

    Let me think outside the Box for a minute.
    Assuming we could land Lowe would a Myers trade to the Cubs for Derosa and Gaudin be workable or would we need to ask for more?

    Derosa could start at 2b Until utley gets healthy. We also need backup for Werth(injury prone) and feliz(bad back). He would be a great right handed stick off the bench while starting about 60-70 games.

    Thoughts.

36. Chuck P Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    Dominican will be stacked… Edinson Volquez and Johnny Cueto have said that they will pitch for the Dominican team (in addition to Griffin’s names, Aramis Ramirez and Alphonso Soriano might also be on that team. Vlad is out…).

    I understand that Chan Ho Park will not play… he was injured playing in the WBC in 2006.

37. Don M Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Cueto sucks.. he was everyone’s darling in the early parts of last year, but once he got figured out he was nothing special, posting a 4.81 ERA

    Volquez is filthy though

38. Brooks Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    This is incredible reading material. A few questions to ponder folks:
    1) Where would we be in all this without our big man?
    2) Who could replace his value in the middle of the lineup?

    Answers –
    1) Not with our memory of 2008 as WS champions
    2) Not many with people could fit there that would not require mega millions – Name the best – what are they commanding? Does Ryan seem like the type that would go from team to team for a $ more to you all?

    Howard needs to be signed for at least 6 years, but after he starts soaring again. This year was not a pretty one for the Howitzer for him or us who agonized over and over again at his whiffs. After this year, if he comes close to the 06 numbers, give him a home on the mainline. His kids a college education at one of our top schools – I’m serious folks. We will not be able to replace this once in a decade type player.

    Hamels, sign him for 6 or 7 years, just do it! People, the best is yet to come..
    Victorino, 6 years! His attitude, his playing ability are second to none. He is a team player.
    Werth, big time, he needs our confidence and he certainly earned it! At least 4 years.
    Blanton, this guy has proved himself. Not a #1, maybe he might become a #2, time will tell. But tie “Just Joe” down for 4 years.
    Dobbsy I would figure 2 years – he has shown to be valuable and well worth decent money wherever needed.
    Madson, if he will listen go for 4, 3 would be nice too. He is still young enough that after 4 (if he stays healthy and continues to improve) he can shoot for the stratosphere (and probably get it, right Carlos Silva? or maybe a better analogy would be our own A Eaton…)
    As for Chad Durbin, I believe that his career needs to be thankful to a manager like Chahlie. If we can, perhaps a soft 2 year deal would be OK.

39. Kenny Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    I agree with just about the whole post. Hamels Victorino are definate, 5-6 years for both. If you dont and they post another year like last it will be real expensive.

40. Mark Says:
    December 18th, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    I’m saying this now, I gurantee that Chase Utley will be a GO for opening day. The man came back early from his broken hand and he can do it again.

    May not see him much at spring training as far as participating full on but, I bet he’ll be a go for opening day.

41. Evrybuddy Hits woohoo Says:
    December 19th, 2008 at 12:01 am

    Hamels, Hamels and Hamels. He is a very special player. He totally dominated in the playoffs and relishes being the man. He has the potential to be an all time great. Sign him for 7 years.

42. T Marty Says:
    December 19th, 2008 at 2:22 am

    Lock Up Victorino so i can get a jersey i can wear for a few years, (See Thome, Jim)

43. Tyler Says:
    December 19th, 2008 at 7:58 am

    No long term deals to anyone…
    except werth and madson, both are in their final yr of arbitration and i would love to see them in phils pinstripes for a lot longer… give madson 3-4yrs, 24-32mil (offer then negotiate), give werth 4yrs 28mil & see if he bites, i could actually see him taking it

44. Tyler Says:
    December 19th, 2008 at 7:59 am

    actually, looking at werths 08 salary, he may even take 4/20ish (he only made 1.7)

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