Phillies Nation

180 Responses to “Breaking News: Phils, Ibanez Close To Agreement”

1. Manny Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

   Wawaweewa!

2. Ed Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

   Finally some positive news. Lets hope they get this done.

3. Geoff Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

   um….what?

   if they sign ibanez…that means geoff jenkins is going to get traded and it means they still need a righty outfielder to platoon with him….

4. Ed Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

   Why does that mean Jenkins gets traded? Jenkins would be the 4th OF.

5. Manny Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

   If we get him (very good average and power, gets 100+ RBIs):

   1. it better be relatively cheap
   2. we better keep going for lowe

   If we’re not getting Lowe, I would rather have Moyer and Burrell again, and not add any new pieces.

6. Griffin Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

   I’m a little confused by this. He’s an older, left-handed version of Burrell. It’s better than doing nothing, but not worth if it means we’re out of the Lowe sweepstakes.

7. Christian Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

   I know he is a solid player but why would we want another left-handed bat? I agree about Jenkins – he will be the odd man out since he bats left as well.

8. justin Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

   where is he going to bat?
   JRoll/Utley/Werth/Howard/Ibanez/shane/Feliz/ruiz/pitcher?
   we cant have
   JRoll/Werth/Utley/Howard/Ibanez/shane/Feliz/ruiz/pitcher that is 3 straight lefties

9. Don M Says:
   December 11th, 2008 at 6:27 pm

   So the way to beat Johan Santana and Oliver Perez to is to attack them with more LH hitters.. good.. he better be WAY less than $10 M per season

10. Chuck P Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    J Roll/Vic/Utley/Howard/Werth/Ibanez/Feliz/Ruiz/Pitcher

11. Luis phillies phan Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    we aint getting lowe either he going to the yankees,redsox,or possibly even the mets but this is great news!

12. Chuck P Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    This deal better come cheap…

13. Don M Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, Werth, Ibanez, Feliz, Ruiz, Chan Ho Park. (or hit Park 4th…)

14. mike mike Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    Remember before we sign him ask Geoff if it raises our national debt. and if don can afford to go to the games if they raise tickets by .50 to pay him. Who is going to take jenkins at 8 million a year.

15. Eb Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    I dont mind this signing. Ibanez has a well documented great work ethic, he is a great clubhouse person. He also hits well against lefties (i think i read that). Also look at his numbers, they brought down by Safeco field which is arguebly the 2nd best pitcherrs park in the Majors.

    Burrell definately wanted minimum 10 million per season and a 4 year deal.

    Keep going after Lowe or make a trade for pitching

16. had_my_phil Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    He’ll also be able to hit 3rd for utley when he’s out the first month

17. justin Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    victorino is so much better hitting in the 6th hole then 2nd. his bat and speed are perfect for the back end of the lineup. werth needs to be either 2 and 3

18. Don M Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    I heard Teixiera is either RedSox or Nationals..

    Burnett is Yankees or Braves

    Lowe is Yankees or RedSox.

    from Peter Gammons today

19. NEPA Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    He’s a left handed batter but he hit over .300 against lefties last season. All of the talk about platooning left field for the entire season got me nervous about that gaping hole in our lineup, which makes me like this move a lot if it comes at a decent price and doesn’t take us out of the Lowe race. Plus, Ibanez is a great clubhouse guy, will add to the chemistry even further.

20. Justin Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    What does everyone think of this lineup….

    Victorino/Utley/Werth/Howard/Ibanez/Rollins/Feliz/Ruiz/Pitcher

    You can swap Victorino and Rollins as the leadoff man but to get a guy with speed at the 5 or 6 hole is needed with slow guys down at the end of the lineup. It proved very important in the playoffs to add speed to the bottom of the lineup and with 3 lefties in the lineup it makes sense to bat Utley 2nd to help put a good patient hitter at the top of the lineup to set the table for Howard and Ibanez. Thoughts?

21. dan Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    MLBTR says we passed up Atkins for Carrasco. Man, if we coulda pulled that trigger and signed Lowe…

22. Phil Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    Just read the Rockies wanted Carrasco for Atkins…why didn’t Amaro pull the trigger on this trade? That is the RH bat we need.

23. mike mike Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    mlb said phillies turn down carrasco for atkins. How good is atkins, really don’t see a lot of him.

24. Justin Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    Hey has anyone heard that the Phils turned down a trade of Carlos Carrasco for Garrett Atkins?

25. NJ Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    Carrasco for Atkins, made me laugh… We should offer them Stairs for Jiminez. That’s just a blatent attempt at thievery, Amaro would have been insane to accept that move.

26. edavies7 Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    ATkins is a stud and would be great for this team. I love Carasco but I would rather have the proven player that fills a huge need a right handed power bat. We have a few other good pitching prospects we can groom if we deal Carasco. Do Amaro and sign Ibanez and Lowe and the divison is ours.

27. GWFightinsFan Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Ibanez is a solid contact hitter, may go a long way towards improving our lineup actually. He strikes out a hell of a lot less than Burrrel and can simply put the ball in play when we need to drive in a run or two

28. metsblow4show Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    Hey Guys, I don’t know if you heard but Cole Hamels went on WFAN today with Mike Francesca and was asked about the Muts choking. Hamels answered him by saying kinda indirectly that they did choke. So Francescal flat out asked him if he was saying the Muts were “choke artists” and Cole answered him by saying that after what the Muts did the past two Septembers, that yes they are “choke artists”. I love it. You have to drop by metsblog.com. They posted the interview and have over 100 responses from their whining fans. They want Cole’s head. I posted a few comments just to rile them up even more . Too Funny ! Great Job, Cole !

29. Pete Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Ibanez can hit lefties just fine. He’s a slight upgrade from Burrell. Strikes out less, walks less, puts a lot more balls in play, more RBI.

    atkins is not a stud. he hit .233 away from coors last year.

30. psujoe Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    Ibanez would be a nice pickup. We need Jenkins to platoon for werth if he starts to break down or continues to struggle against rightes. Ibanez in conjuntion with Derosa would’ve been perfect.

31. christopher Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    i really hope these talks fall through at the last minute. i would so much rather have pat back than ibanez.

32. psujoe Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    Kendrick and Coste for Atkins would be more fair.

33. Ray Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    wait where are the reports?

34. Justin Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    I’d do Kendrick and Coste for Atkins in a heartbeat.

35. david Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    what sources are stating that ibanez is going to the phils? I havent seen it anywhere else but here. Is this wishful thinking, or is there a credible source behind it, other than the info from stark that things are “heating up”, and a friend of a friend saying that Ibanez likes the Phils?

36. NEPA Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    Haha, the Rockies would absolutely never take Kendrick and Coste for Atkins. They wouldn’t even consider it. I say scoop Ibanez up as soon as possible. It seems like Burrell is all but gone, and the last thing I want to see is a platoon in left.

37. psujoe Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    Anyone have a guess on what it would take? 3 years for ?

38. MMMcheesesteak Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    Check Atkins road numbers, he is NO stud!!!!

39. psujoe Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    NEPA, it was tongue and cheek because no way we give up Carasco for Atkins.

40. tom Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    My guess is 3years 21-29 million with a option year

41. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    guys…we are not signing derek lowe…anyone being offered that kind of loot from the yankees isnt going to take less to come here. as much as id want him its not going to happen. this ibanez stuff is great…could hit 3-4-5 in this lineup and be succesful. hit leftys much better than utley or howard. will be a great veteran offensive prescense in the locker room too. whoever says you would rather have pat than ibanez is crazy…trust me…youd rather have ibanez

42. Manny Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    Anyone knows what type of deal could get Ibanez?
    His 2008 salary was 5.5M

43. Manny Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    I think 3 years is way too much.

    These outfielders/DHs (like Pat) could even go for 1 year.

44. The Dipsy Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    Do anyone realize that we can probably have Burrell for 2y/15m right this second?

45. tom Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    its the way the market is set he is the best of the cornor outfielders and he is a good player and thanks the the yankees thats what he will command.

46. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    my guess is 3years 32-35mill
    as far as atkins goes he is much better at home…good hitter but feliz is the man at 3rd…as good a glove as you can see at the hot corner. with all the offense in this lineup id rather have a surefire great glove at third that hits 260 than atkins and his 15-20 errors…no way they would have taken kendrick and coste…thats a joke since atkins comes at a bargain…i nthink carrasco is to much to give up…maybe if our offense was lacking and we didnt have feliz it would be closer

47. The Dipsy Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    Rollins
    Victorino
    Utley
    Howard
    Ibanez
    Werth/Jenkins
    Feliz/Dobbs
    Ruix

    Sa-weet

48. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    ibanez is not getting platooned with…hits leftys just fine…he is an everyday hitter. he hit .305 vs leftys last year in 200 atbats

49. KM Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    For anyone questioning the batting lineup with Ibanez, here is what I would do:

    Rollins
    Victorino
    Utley
    Howard
    Werth
    Ibanez
    Feliz
    Ruiz
    Hamels

50. Tyler (not the Mets fan Tyler) Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:59 pm

    HORRIBLE move!!!!! we do NOT need another lefty batter. Especially another power-hitting lefty batter. The best choice for the phils is by far milton bradley… switch-hitter, power-hitter, hits for good avg, all around a great player… yea he has attitude issues but he’s apparently good friends with utley & jroll & howard can fix the rest… not to mention manuel is a players manager… i mean even manny likes him

51. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    vs lhp’s i like any righty behind howard…whether its rollins,werth or vic. vs rhp’s this lineup if they get ibanez will be murder…rollins, vic, chase howard and ibanez all leftys will be awful for any rhp in the first few innings…god i hope they sign him

52. Frank Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    Come on guys its a good move get over it

53. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    horrible move?!?! are you joking…ibanez hit .296 last year with 75 xtra base hits and .300 vs leftys…are you out of your mind

54. Tyler (not the Mets fan Tyler) Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    yea its a great lineup vs rightys… but u got leftys galore now-a-days & johan santana is probably number one out of all of them, except for maybe hamels… if we’re lucky we’ll only see him about 5 or 6 times… worst move we could have made without a right handed bat to play against leftys

55. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    sorry .293 with 70 xtra base hits…u dont platoon him

56. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    u dont sign him either… i will be so pissed at amaro if he signs ibanez… he better get lowe too if he pulls this sh*t to weaken our line-up against leftys cuz we’re gonna be seein a lot of teams givin pitchers shortened rest if they’re a lefty to go against us with a line-up like this… i hope amaro reads this

57. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:17 pm

    how does a guy who hits 300 vs leftys make us weaker against leftys…great signing…ibanez or not they are not getting lowe or burnett or ben sheets…lowe will take 4 or 5 years which means paying him 16-17 mill for the seasons he will be 40 and 41 years old…understand that milton bradley has never had more than 80 runs or 80 rbis in a season and hasnt batted more than 415 times in a season since 04…missed a quarter of last year…two thirds of 07 and half of 06 and 05…ibanez hits lefts 30points higher than burrel too

58. Geoff Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    he doesnt, they just need to move jenkins and bring in a righty bat to play out there..its a nice signing…but they would still need to tweak some more..

59. Geoff Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    and, its only a nice signing if its a 2 year deal for cheap

60. Griffin Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    Milton Bradley wants 4 years, $40 million. The Cubs are reportedly interested but not at that price.
    Atkins is mediocre at best.
    Hamels’s comments about the Mets are now on the front page of ESPN. If you listen to the interview, and the context of the question asked him, they’re much more tame then just reading the headline saying “Hamels thinks the Mets are chokers.” But the media loves a good story….

61. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    i agree bringing pat back for what he’s asking is the wrong move… but honestly i don’t want another left-handed bat in the line-up… we need versatility… would love to see this signing if maybe we traded howard, & got texiera cuz then that gives us plenty of versatility… i mean texiera’s gonna get the kind of money that howard wants & will get in a couple yrs (maybe even this yr in arb) & i think they’re the same age & texiera’s upside is a hell of a lot better than howard’s

62. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:23 pm

    but im just dreamin tryin to get texiera

63. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    rly??? 4/40 for bradley… i heard he was lookin in the range of like 7-8 per… i think from maybe mlbtraderumors.com a little while back & maybe even here also???

64. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    bring in a righty to play out where? left in a platoon? i dont object to moving jenkins to get a righty 5th outfielder
    outfield would be ibanez,vic,werth,stairs and righty you get for junkins…i like

65. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    i think 4/32 oughta do it for bradley… who again i would like to reiterate… has a much stronger upside than ibanez… if im not mistaken i think he led the AL in OPS

66. J-Man Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    Not a bad signing i hope they get it done…If he sign he should be the everyday LF i don’t think their will be any platooning.

67. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:28 pm

    i hate… 2 lefty outfielders goin for the same spot vs 1 righty… doesnt sound too bad but it is… werth & vic definitely have starting roles locked up

68. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    nah bradley is talkin at least 4 years in the 40 mill range…which he may get cause of last season where he hit 320 as a switch hitter but only 400 at bats…ibanez at 3 for 33ish is all good…howard isnt gettin moved when we own rights to him for next few years thru arbitration…once his arb years are done he will pick which al team he wants to dh for

69. Griffin Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    Tyler, I’m trying to find the link where I heard Bradley’s demands, but having a hard time trying to remember which website. In any case, I like Milton Bradley as well, but was floored when I heard his asking price. He can hit, no doubt about that.
    I’m still dreaming of Mannny….it’s those dreads….

70. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    bradley never played a full season in his carear where ibanez has been healthy and consistent for a while…if they sign ibanez he is hands down every day starter…they will then attempt to dump jenkins for a righty OF…rocco baldelli anyone???

71. PhillipdaPhanatic Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    LOL U GUYS DONT KNO NUTIN IBANEZ IS GARBAGE!!!!1!!

    PAT DA BAT WAS SOO MUCH BETTER WTF IS AMARA DOING DUMB ASS I WANT GILICK BK. HE MITE HIT 300 THIS YEAR VS LEFTIES BUT HE IS CAREER 260SUMTIN. NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE ALSO HORRIBBLY DEFENSIVELY, WORSE D OFER IN MLB.

    AT LEAST WE STILL BEET DA MUTTTTS!!!11!!! HA HA HA LOL LOL LOL PUTZ AND KRODS LOL DEY DINK THEY BETTER DAN MADSON + LIDGEY.

72. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    like baldelli’s story… not so much on reliability… but wouldnt mind signing him… i agree griffin about 4/40 being to high though with his health records… but still… would love to see him… would also love manny… but gotta keep dreamin unless he’d like to take a decent pay cut 2 play for his fav hitting coach (manuel)

73. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    bradley 7 teams in an 8 year career…dont think he would respond to well to being the 8th guy on the totem pole

74. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    i do admit that the signing of krod & putz worries me slightly… not much room for our fav met aaron heilman to step in there… unless he became a starter… could have a little bit of a heyday with that potentially

75. PhillipdaPhanatic Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    HILLMAN WENT TO MARNERS DUMMY

76. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:40 pm

    baldelli would be great if he came on the cheap as the 4th outfielder and 1st rh off the bench…dude cant play everyday so a ph and spot playing role would be great for him and us…

77. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:40 pm

    mlb.com is now saying lowe may demand at least 80 mil… i certainly dont want that kinda contract… but 3/45 would be nice… yea 15 per vs 16 per sounds pretty similar… but this contract would only take him thru 39 vs 41

78. Tyler Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    did he rly… my bad… i didnt look into the exact details of the putz trade… damn… there goes a potential few wins vs the mets

79. Manny Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    Ibanez is great for a lefty. But I’m kinda indifferent between him and Pat… and as of now, we could get Pat back for something around 10M, 2 years. It would leave us in a good financial position to get Lowe.

80. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    right…i was saying a 5 year would take him thru 41…no way he takes 3/45 when the yanks would prob give him the 5/80 he wants…this is lowes last contract and the yanks are an embarrasment to all that is good about baseball the way they throw loot around…whats another 16 mill to them if it means they have one less guy to sign

81. Manny Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    For Pat, I meant 2 years, 10M EACH year…

82. PhillipdaPhanatic Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    ITS FINE, I ONLY KNO BCUS DIS MET GUY AT WORK WAS SAYING IT I LAFFED BCUS HE SO EXCITED DEY GOT GARBAGE. WHY WULD U READ THE DETIALS, DONT MATTER BE GON WIN ANYWAY.

    PHILLIES GARANTEED ‘09 CHAMPS, METS DONA GO PAST 3RD PLACE MAYBE

83. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    lowe is gonna get 5/80 ish from yanks…its disgusting…we cant and should not touch that…i dont think the difference btween what we would give ibanez to that of burrell would be enough to make lowe a realistic possibility…i think if ibanez gets inked then it will be moyer as the 4 starter and 5 will be one of our young guys…thoughts?

84. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    is there a translator available?

85. Mike N Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    anybody know if ibanez is good at defense? or are we gonna be trotting eric bruntlett out there in the eighth inning again?

86. Manny Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    Johnson, but the deal that’s on the table (from the Yankees) is the 5/80M for Burnett. If Burnett signs, I highly doubt they’ll keep going after Lowe. IF they do, it will be a 4yr deal at most. I think the Phillies could match that.

87. Johnson Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    5 errors and 9 outfield assists in 153 games in left last year…hard to tell by stats how good an outfielder is…gotta see him play and what kind of command he has out there and the way he tracks down balls

88. bones Says:
    December 11th, 2008 at 11:57 pm

    i like like dont mind it at all its give us alot of lefties but if the hit who cares
    its going to be
    rollins
    werth
    Utley
    howard
    Vic
    Ibanez
    Feliz
    LOU MARSON thats rite hes going to beat out Ruiz for the staring job
    pitcher

89. Johnson Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:01 am

    right…4/64 for lowe i think was the offer…that means 16mill when he is 40…hey i want them to get him but i dont see the front office pulling the trigger on that much for a pitcher that old…id be the first to cheer if they did though…i think if there is an ibanez splash they go 2/16 with moyer

90. mike mike Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:01 am

    The Angels have turn there attention to ibanez. This is according to espn,baseball tonight. Ibanez only hit lefthand pitching the one year other than last year, 240 hitting against lefthanders. I am not a fan of a 36 year old bad defensive outfielder. Especially if he is lefthanded. I know the market is crazy but pass on this guy and try to see if we can upgrade the bullpen to shortend the game more. and stay with. Hamels, Myers,Blanton, Happ, and Carrasco. Unforuntaly we can’t outbid the yankess, or mets not with this ownership.

91. Johnson Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:05 am

    i dont mind 3/33 for ibanez…might as well sign someone that ny is going to outbid you for…still room to add a tough bullpen arm if we sign him

92. Johnson Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:06 am

    glad to hear ibanez prefers philly…guess that means if they hit his 11 per number they should get him

93. mike mike Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:14 am

    instead of offering 33 million to this guy go 3/60 for manny. Manny in this lineup offsets the mets move. He can hit anyone. the extra 27 million over three years is worth it .hopefully next year 8 million comes off with jenkins and we can replace him with taylor or brown from the minors or mayberry at league minumim.

94. Manny Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:16 am

    Looking closer at his stats vs. lefties.. not THAT great: Average of .269 (2006-2008). Take into account that .305 in 2008 seems more like the outlier, the exception to the norm. He’s still very good… but I can’t see how he could protect Howard better than Burrell –who we could have back on a 2year deal…

95. Johnson Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:23 am

    i do not want that disease manny ramirez on this team…i think any guy that consistently hits 290 is better protection than burrell at 250…if going with burrel instead of raul gets you derek lowe than i am soooo on board…but i doubt thats the case which makes me want ibanez instead…please dont sign manny ramirez…last thing this good clubhouse who just won a title is that thing

96. Johnson Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:38 am

    3 for 60 mill doesnt get manny anyway…3/75 may get him…no way

97. mike mike Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:40 am

    I am sorry johnson Just saying that its the better shot to pay manny than a bad leftfielder who can’t run and can’t protect Howard. Just loved the parade and with manny its a better chance to get back to the world series.

98. mike mike Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:42 am

    The only team that would do three years seventy five is the yankees, and I don’t think they want to do it instead they want to get Cameron.

99. Johnson Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 12:44 am

    guess i just dont like manram and what he can do to a franchise……are you saying that manny IS a good left fielder that can run? manny is not signing with the phillies

100. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:47 am

     i just noticed that peavy is only due 8mill in 2009…thats the most unbelievable bargain i have ever seen…the fact the cubs couldnt get this done knowing it was only costing them 8 for 09 is pathetic…since his salary goes up to 15 mill in 2010 they could have dealt him after next season if they didnt want to pay him the extra 7mill…its not like his trade value would decrease in a year unless he gets seriously injured

101. Ryk Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:57 am

     What does everyone think of this lineup….

     Victorino/Utley/Werth/Howard/Ibanez/Rollins/Feliz/Ruiz/Pitcher

     You can swap Victorino and Rollins as the leadoff man but to get a guy with speed at the 5 or 6 hole is needed with slow guys down at the end of the lineup. It proved very important in the playoffs to add speed to the bottom of the lineup and with 3 lefties in the lineup it makes sense to bat Utley 2nd to help put a good patient hitter at the top of the lineup to set the table for Howard and Ibanez. Thoughts?

     If they were to do this, I doubt Werth would hit 2nd. But for the sake of argument, let’s say he does. Rollins should hit in the 5 hole to break up the lefties, since he bats from both sides of the plate.

102. Ryk Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:59 am

     I hate forgetting to put quotes around the original post. Grr.

103. timb Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:03 am

     ryk, i like it! j roll has always wanted to be an rbi guy, and i think he does pick his game up with risp. im sure everyone else will say no way, but from terms of righties, lefties, and power distribution….. i like it.

104. Geoff Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:09 am

     If they did do this..you NEED a righty after howard…you really do…it would have to be something like

     rollins/victorino/utley/howard/werth/ibanez/feliz/ruiz/P

     i dunno…the more i think about this move the less it makes sense..why waste a first round pick on this guy? hes type A, and youd surrender your pick for him…i dont think this is what they need. they have a lefty hitter…i really believe they need to get a right handed hitter. juan rivera is ok..i dont like bradley and no need to bring back burrell..id rather spend the money on pitching…just get me a right handed bat that can hit 5th or 6th and do a nice job…nothing outlandish, no huge insane splash costing tons of players or money..just a solid performer..

     id rather see them acquire a starter through trade for the third slot..add depth..the rotation this year is already better becausae eaton and kendrick are repalced by happ and blanton…so thats a relief at least…lowes too expensive for a 36 year old..my final verdict is that ill pass…pass on oliver perez, pass on burnett, pass on andy pettite…garland (if hes cheap ill consider it..otherwise, pass), ben sheets (if you can sign him for two years affordably id immediately make that offer, and take the gamble – add a durability incentive in the contact).

     sheets would be my top choice now..check in, see if hes affordable, otherwise…pass….

     if all that fails id rather trade for someone than consider odalis perez and other slop like that..

105. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:14 am

     Burrell hit .181 in August and .205 in September. Howard hit .213 in August and .352 in September. I don’t think Burrell provided a lot of protection down the stretch. I like Pat, but he REALLY tailed off last year. Didn’t exactly serve himself well in a contract year.

     Last 3 years vs lefties (adding to what Manny said above):
     Ibanez: .269
     Burrell: .275

     These guys are actually pretty similar. Burrell has more power, walks more, whiffs more, but he played in a hitters park compared to Safeco. Ibanez is a very productive player. Don’t want to overpay, so very curious what the contract would be, but this guy is good. Even at his age, he’s probably more reliable and less streaky than Pat. I’d rather have Holliday even if was just for a year, but considering what’s remaining, Ibanez is a good get. Still dreamin’ of Man Ram….because I think Lowe ends up with the Mets.

106. Geoff Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:14 am

     theyre not going to sign manny, amaro openly came out and said he has no interest at all and will not even make an offer to manny…which is the right thing to do…to afford mannys salary they would have to shed like 20mm in salary (myers, howard) and that is not worth it…signing manny is THE very worst big splash move any team will make this offseason. the dodgers dont even want him back, and NOBODY ELSE WANTS HIM….he has not recieved any other offers because hes WAY overpriced…

     all of these left fielders on the FA market are overpriced and overhyped, the A/B ones. whats wrong with juan rivera…otherwise trade for someone…

     i prefer trades to free agent sinings if you have to go outside the organization to fill a need…

107. Geoff Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:15 am

     the mets have not made an offer to lowe…theyre trying to trade for jason marquis (YES! the mets get an adam eaton too!)

108. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:32 am

     vic/utley/werth/howard/rollins/ibanez vs leftys
     they dont need a righty…ibanez is the right signing…if you can hit lefty pitching does it matter if your lefty or righty…shouldnt. 270 for a lefty vs lefty is great cause it means hes over 300 vs rightys. juan rivera stinks…geoff who is this not outlandish, not insane splash that can hit 5th as a solid performer…to protect howard you have to be good…like ibanez is…a threat to drive in runs that people wont walk howard to get to. do you see people choosing to pitch to howrd to avoiding loading the bases for juan rivera…face it burnett and lowe are unsignable and arent going to be here next year so get the best leftfielder available…raul ibanez

109. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:32 am

     I don’t have a problem with a Rivera/Dobbs platoon. Maybe Jenkins gets over whatever messed him up in ‘08 and he helps out more, too. The only problem what that in LF is that, we’re the WF Champs, and you’d hope we’d come back better in 2009, and arguably that’s not better than Burrell. Or you’d go with Rivera/Dobbs, but you spend on Lowe or Sheets, but I don’t know if we get either.

     Ibanez had 186 hits in 2008 and played in every game. Not too bad.

     Just an economic argument — if you don’t get Lowe (not spend $15M), if you don’t re-sign Burrell or sign Ibanez (not spend $10M), you have $25M that can go to Manny. It’s not a dramatic leap from what Amaro is looking to spend. The cancer part, the aloofness part, you’d hope Cholly has a positive effect there. It’s VERY unlikely, but it’s not absolutely nuts.

110. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:40 am

     have you actually ever looked at juan riveras stats…300 atbats in last 2 seasons…255 average in that span…what a joke…best year in career is 06 hit 23hr and .310 in 120 games…never played a full season in 8 year career…nothing about him is desirable in any fashion…stinks. moyer and ibanez signed and this is a great offseason…forget burnett and lowe

111. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:49 am

     the key is to 1.sign ibanez 2.try to swap jenkins to a team looking for a lefty 4th outfielder for a righty 4th outfielder. 3.ink moyer or penny or garland (someone in that 8-10m per year 3rd or 4th starter kinda guy) 4. accept the fact that the final spot in roation will be happ or kendrick or carrasco which isnt bad

112. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:58 am

     Yeah, after that great 2006 (.310 avg, .362 OPB, .525 SLG, all comparable or better than Burrell last year, plus 23 HRs, 85 RBIs in 142 games), Rivera broke his leg and missed almost all of 2007. Last year, he never got a lot of time as the Angles have like 6 outfielders. It’s a buy low (last year was his worst year, by far), take a chance, hope he stays healthy and gets his mojo back. It’s full of risk, just like signing Werth was. His career numbers are closer to his great 2006 than his down 2008. And he’s only 29. He’s not a savior, just a part-time guy with the potential to play himself into a regular spot.

113. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:08 am

     team has money to spend so why buy low on rivera who has had 1 good year in his career when ibanez has been consistent and injury free for years. signing rivera is what the phils of a few years ago would do(eaton, freddy garcia, years ago gregg jefferies). why roll the dice. this organization has a standard of talent they should try to keep up with. that offseason money isnt going to one of the nig freeagent pitchers so why go cheap in the outfield…ibanez and moyer or garland and its a great offseason

114. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:10 am

     you guys are seriously interested in getting Ibanez. im just gonna say pedro feliz 2.0….but a lefty version

115. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:11 am

     i meant big free agent pitchers obviously

116. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:12 am

     as a pat burrell fan i hope he signs with somebody and haves a spectacular season.

117. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:13 am

     i dont know you what you guys are smoking. But moyer is all but done in philly with the signing of Chan Ho Park.

118. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:15 am

     mike dont be silly…ibanez hits .290 every year and drives in 100 runs misses very few games, hits lefty pitching great…feliz is a .250 hitter

119. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:17 am

     he still a lefty!!!

120. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:23 am

     so…he hit .300 vs leftys…higher than burrel who is a righty…phils didnt sign chan ho park

121. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:26 am

     well there about to sign him and i still wouldnt want him hes still a lefty i think he’ll struggle i hope we sign somebody whos a righty thats wroth it. why not a rocco baldelli since ur gonna platoon anyawys.

122. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:26 am

     i do hope burrell does well…unfortunately he hit the market during a satuarted year for the LF/DH types…he should have taken the 2yr/22mill phils offered him after the WS…nobody wants to give him 3yrs…agents tell these players they are worth so much more than they are and it ends up costing them money in the long run

123. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:29 am

     if they sign ibanez they wont platoon…he will be the evryday LF…11-12 mil per year doesnt get platooned…especially when you hit .290-.300 off both leftys and rightys

124. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:29 am

     i hope burrell kills us in a game this season…but not the season. maybe he should go to mets i’ve always wanted to like a player on the mets besides david wright i like david cuz he speaks the truth and he doesnt showboat.

125. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:30 am

     i dont think he’ll come cheap in a rare hitting market i think somebody will overpay and give him close to 14-15 million

126. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:30 am

     and by the way hes 36 so i dont c more than 2 good years left in him let alone 1 i just wanna see how many years the phils offered be interesting…

127. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:31 am

     The argument for going cheaper in LF is to allow you to upgrade the starting pitching (Lowe or Sheets). In your plan (and your plan is fine), you’re not upgrading the pitching. You’re just upgrading LF, slightly. Signing Rivera would be just like when we signed Werth, coming off his injury, completely under the radar. Werth could have been a bust. Rivera could be a bust, who knows. But the “joke” .255 avg you mention is comparable to Burrell, for a lot less money. I don’t prefer the Rivera/Dobbs platoon, but I think it’s tolerable if we upgrade the pitching. That’s all I’m saying. For me, pitching is more important than paying $10-12M for Burrell or his replacement.

     If we don’t upgrade the pitching, I agree Ibanez is a good get. BUT, if we don’t do anything about the pitching, then I prefer Manny. Manny isn’t going to happen, so Ibanez is fine.

128. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:36 am

     mets are a joke…im not really interested in finding a reason to like their players. .250 hitter turned down 11 million per year…i dont feel bad for pat…like him but he made a dumb choice thinking someone would give him 3 years 40mill

129. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:40 am

     i just think karma is gonna bite us in the axx if we dont sign burrell….

130. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:41 am

     I don’t know if I trust Ibanez. Yeah, he has good numbers against LHP and whatnot but I guess I don’t trust a guy who hasn’t played on a playoff team, or a team with any expectations really, since the 2000 Mariners. He didn’t even hit above .260 until after he went to the Royals in 2001, and they suck! And it says something that he couldn’t even beat Dee Brown for the Left Field spot so they stuck him at DH. I mean, yeah, his numbers are good, but unless I’ve seen a player play extensively I take good numbers with a grain of salt unless they’ve played for a contender. I don’t want another Bobby Abreu, good-numbers-but-missing something type.

     And then keep in mind the late innings. With a lineup of Utley/Howard/Ibanez, a manager can just stay with one LH reliever. With a lineup of Utley/Howard/Burrell, they at least brought in a RH reliever to face Burrell. Because here’s how the lineup would stack up if they signed Ibanez.

     (S) Jimmy Rollins
     (S) Shane Victorino
     (L) Chase Utley
     (L) Ryan Howard
     (L) Raul Ibanez
     (R) Jason Werth
     (R) Pedro Feliz
     (R) Carlos Ruiz.

     Basically they way that stacks up is you can use ONE pitcher for the 3-5 spots and ONE pitcher for the 6-8 spots. Yes there was still a string of RH batters at the bottom of the lineup last year, but at least you could pinch hit with Dobbs, Coste, or Jenkins and not worry about having to take one of your few good RH batters out of the lineup. And I am absolutely not comfortable with signing Ibanez because that gives us almost no lineup flexibility. I mean, it’s one thing if you could guarantee me that Werth would hit .300 as a full-time starter from the 5-spot. Then I’d be more comfortable with Ibanez. But you can’t guarantee that and until I see it, I’m really not comfortable with Ibanez. As it is, I think Werth is better suited for the 6th slot because he has both the RBI power to drive in the 3 through 5 guys and the speed to create a little havoc on his own on the off chance that the guys at the bottom can get hits. And I’m not the only one who thinks that; he’s batted, 2nd and 6th most frequently in his career.

131. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:43 am

     I thought karma already bit us something bad when we signed Burrell last time.

132. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:44 am

     amaro made it clear manny is not an option and the team has no interest in making him an offer so he doesnt enter the equation at all…yankees have made it clear that they will pay what it takes to fill their starting rotation and will overpay for lowe and burnett so phils arent getting them…..sheets could be an option but 2years/30mill…semms a bit much for an injury plagued guy…LF is a position of need for this team…ibanez is clearly the best option in my opinion. spending the entire offseason budget on a pitcher that will cost 5yrs/80 to get is crazy to me

133. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:55 am

     more than likely leftys like utley howard and ibanez would hit 2-4-6 in lineup and rightys rollins,vic, and werth would be some combo of 1-3-5. ibanez has shown he will consistently hit about 40 points higher than burrell which to me is a significant upgrade at a cheaper price…i cant digest ur stats from 2000 and 2001…he has put together about 4 or 5 pretty consistent seasons in a row on a crap team which is impressive…if he does .293 like last year with 70 xtra base hits its a huge upgrade in left and cheaper

134. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 2:57 am

     The lineup concerns with Ibanez are legit, no matter how well he may hit lefties. There are lefties like Moyer and there are lefties like David Price in the late innings. But I’ve heard his make-up is very strong, very professional, not a look-at-me guy, he’s good in the clubhouse, not an Abreu type at all. Apparently Gillick is a big fan. And I think his production on a terrible Mariners team is a good sign. Not a lot of talent around him, no protection in that lineup, played every day on a really bad team, stayed focused, kept producing runs (had a torrid August .396). I think those are positives. But it’s a shame he’s not a righty. What’s hard to trust is what took this guy so long to get good? He’s the Moyer of hitting, can he keep it going?

135. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 3:04 am

     My point is 2000 was the last year he played for a contender. He didn’t even play 100 games until he went to a team that sucked. My worry is he’ll be one of those guys who only plays well when no one’s watching. I’m not talking about his numbers, I’m talking about he’s never hit well for a contender. In 2000 he hit .229 over 92 games on a 91-71 Seattle Mariners team where he couldn’t even beat out a 41-year-old Ricky Henderson for a starting OF position. In 2001 he hit .280 over 104 games for a 65-97 Royals team. That’s just such a huge jump that it makes me wonder if he just suddenly put it together or only put it together because no one cared because it was the Royals.

136. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 3:09 am

     Interesting take Mike B — are there other players you’ve noticed that only play well on bad teams? I guess there are players that can’t handle New York. It’s been reported that Ibanez wants to play here, for what it’s worth.

137. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 3:17 am

     Yeah that’s another thing I noticed Memphis. Especially because ahead of him in the corner outfield on that 2000 Mariners team were a 41 year old Rickey Henderson (.238 BA, 4 HR, 30 RBI over 92 games), a 36 year old Jay Buener (.253 BA, 26 HR, 32 RBI over), and a 36 year old Stan Javier (.275 BA, 5 HR, 40 RBI over 105 games). Basically it looks like they platooned their whole corner outfield…so why couldn’t Ibanez play as many games as a man over a decade his senior? Especially because it looked like they didn’t have many lefties.

     This is one of those gut things. Like this year was the first year I wasn’t worried when the Phils fell out of first. Just a gut thing. But that gut thing made me answer “ask me when the Phils win the World Series” without even thinking when my professor asked me how my semester had been going. And my gut is telling me, not Ibanez.

138. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 3:30 am

     I don’t know Memphis. I’d have to think. See, I might be wrong. Lou Pinella was his manager in Seattle, and from what I’ve gathered, he really prefers his veterans over unproven guys. Sometimes guys just don’t fit in somewhere. And the 2007 season (Mariners were 88-74) complicates my argument, although I’m not sure if they just got hot at the end or what. And I also get a bad gut feeling from Ibanez going to New York, if only because that means the Mets won’t be resorting to the Cliff Floyds of the world.

     But…good question. Players who only play well on bad teams. I’m not thinking about short stints but whole seasons. Richie Sexson – when given the chance to play extensively with the Indians, he blew it, but prospered in Milwaulkee. Then, signed to Seattle with high expectations, he sucked. So maybe it’s not the team as it is the expectations. And God knows we’ve seen that with the Kevin Millwoods and David Bells of the world.

139. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 3:38 am

     I respect that. But whatever Ibanez did, he turned his career around. Usually that says “steroids” (or as Dykstra said, “vitamins”) but I don’t think that’s the case here. Word is he just worked hard, got in shape, figured it out. Can’t argue with his numbers. Production is production. My gut says he’d be a nice fit here, and he’d keep it going. I’d give him 2 years.

     Career vs.
     K-Rod: 7-22 (.318), 1 BB
     Santana: 12-34 (.353), 1 HR, 8 RBI, 2 BB

140. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 3:55 am

     Some negative vibes on Ibanez’s defense:
     http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/12/03/bp.marinersgm/index.html

141. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 4:05 am

     Ah. Fair point about K-Rod and Santana. Ibanez also got a chance to start more. Which may speak to the management style of Lou Piniella. And in fairness to him, in ‘98 Griffey and Glenallen Hill were still around and didn’t give him much of a spot. But I still worry about our lineup flexibility. Signing Ibanez means Werth has to bat fifth because I don’t know if Charlie would put three lefties in a row, and as I detailed above, Werth is better in the two or six spot. If we sign a decent RH bat, okay, but having 3 LH power hitters doesn’t sit well with me.

142. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 4:37 am

     Yeah I think what I read was that he has trouble adjusting to fly balls

     http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Raul_Ibanez/

143. Mike Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 4:44 am

     I thought Ibanez was suppose to be a upgrade on defense ya just said he can’t play D im pretty sure pat burrell has a better arm. but still i rather have a burrell for 1 yr at about 11million over 3yrs+ for ibanez at 11-12million thats a left and hits only 40points higher. Though a interesting stat i notice is that Burrell road numbers are better than his home #’s 22HR on the ROAD and almost 45pts higher avg on the road so maybe hes just feels the pressure of philadelphia to live up to the hype plus i hope you guys are ready when Ryan howards gets walked and they bring in a lefty to stop Ibanez who to me is gonna struggle really bad and his HR total would be in the 15-25 range but with the amount lefties he gonna see while in this line up batting behind the big boys will drop his avg to about maybe .270 and not a really big hit threat. so have fun with pedro feliz 2.0. cpl good years stringed along and get overpaid by a team that happens to be the phillies again.

144. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 5:13 am

     Hey hey not all of us like Ibanez. Mike thanks for talking sense tonight. Except the Feliz comparison is unfair because Feliz actually plays good defense, and by all accounts Ibanez does not. Let’s go with David Bell 2.0, except a lefty version. Because this smells exactly like a David Bell signing – a reasonably known name who’s signed to garner excitement and will fill a hole left by a departing star (in Bell’s case, Scott Rolen), even if said player really doesn’t fit our team. (Two corner infielders (Thome and Bell) who couldn’t play defense? Really Eddie?) The 2003 Phillies? Only two lefties and one switch hitter in their everyday lineup (pre-Utley).

     My God, it’s Fast Eddie Wade all over again.

145. R.Mac Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:17 am

     ESPN reports Phils and Ibanez agree to 3-year $30 mil deal.

146. R.Mac Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:26 am

     The Pat the Bat era is over. I’m struggling coming to grips with that.

     (single tear)

147. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:36 am

     great signing…lineup is better…since funds werent going to lowe or burnett or sheets they filled the most gaping need and got the best LF available…awesome move

148. NJ Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:39 am

     I like this deal. it’s a little more than you’d like to pay, you never like giving up your first rounder unless your landing someone flashy but it sends a good message. Ibanez isn’t flashy but he plays the game with the right attitude and will make the players around him better and that’s why I tip my hat to Amaro on this one.

149. Tyler Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:47 am

     3/30 for Ibanez.

     Hopefully Burrell signs with the Mets.

150. Phil Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:54 am

     My new line up with Ibanez in it.

     Victorino
     Utley
     Rollins
     Howard
     Werth
     Ibanez
     Feliz
     Ruiz
     pitcher

     My only fear of this line up is the lack of speed and contact in the back of the line up, but you have to do a good job of seperating the lefties and righties. Maybe that above line up can be the line up against lefties. Against Righties it can be this.

     Victorino
     Utley
     Rollins
     Howard
     Ibanez
     Werth
     Feliz
     Ruiz
     Pitcher

151. Bloagie Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:55 am

     What about lineup now? 3 Lefties in a row, Utlety, Howard, Ibanez?

     I like Ibanez, though..hits for avg, lots of rbi’s, and may hit that 30 hr. plateu at The Bank…

     Now, lets get Lowe and Penny

152. Geoff Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:58 am

     If Ibanez gets 3/30 that means theyre not going to sign lowe at his ridiculous inflated price over 4-5 years like boras wants…

     they need a mid-back rotation starter to add depth to the rotation. throw in another releiver…in my opinion, they need to get rid of jenkins now and add a right-handed bat in the outfield..obviously someone cheap now that theyve signed ibanez

153. Geoff Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 10:58 am

     oh and ibanez utley howard wont all bat in a row..theyll move ibanez to 6th

154. Johnson Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:05 am

     be nice to deal jenkins to someone who needs a lefty for an equivelant righty. garland or penny would be decent for the back end…or moyer for that matter…forget lowe or burnett or sheets…please

155. Tom G Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:05 am

     Love the player, hate the deal!
     Lefty bat, less than average fielder and 36 years old…contracted for 3 years…even if front loaded, it is a bad deal!
     IF he were 32 or 34, yes…certainly…
     But, you do not platoon a 10M player…so we are not going to have any production from the Right side of the plate…in the middle of the order…b/c he is a 3 or 5 slot hitter…Werth cannot protect Howard…nor can Victorino…so the choices are Utley, Ibanez at 3 and 5…good hitters, but leaves too big a gap for a Lefty to come in and lower our overall late inning production
     M Bradley, despite his polar opposite clubhouse attitude than that of Raul, would have been a better signing…we now lose a #1 pick for a 36 year old…cannot say this is ideal! Assuming we can sign Lowe…this team just got a great deal older…with at least one less future first rounder

156. NJ Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:07 am

     We can’t take anything for granted, it’s not over with Lowe until he signs.

157. Geoff Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:10 am

     thats why free agency is not the preferred method…hell be a good player for them, but they still need a RH bat and now itll have to be a scrap heap, non-tender guy. free agency is expensive, it inflated ibanezs price by liek one third for his age. i expect another RH bat though…and they will sign one at some point here..wont be a huge name though.

     now, back to pitching…where is the other starter coming from? it doesnt sound like itll be moyer or lowe…so where? trade? garland?

     also, geoff jenkins has to be gone after htis move, right? theres no place for him…they signed someone older, but better than him and jenkins makes too much money to sit the bench..better try and move him before they sign a cheap RH-hitting outfielder…

158. Manny Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:24 am

     Werth has just become one of our KEY players… If he gets injured, we’re screwed. (In all likelihood, he’ll be our No.3, or No. 5 –breaking up the 3 leftys Utley, Howard, and Ibañez.)

     Right now, my lineup would be:

     Rollins, Utley, Werth, Howard, Ibañez, Victorino, Feliz, Ruiz, Pitcher

159. NEPA Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:27 am

     It sounds like from the way you guys are talking that this deal is pretty much a certainty. Is that the case or are you guys just speculating?

160. NEPA Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:30 am

     Nevermind, just looked.

161. Manny Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:34 am

     From the pitching side, I’m expecting AT LEAST Moyer… (I really hope we don’t give up on Lowe)

162. Geoff Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:45 am

     Also, its not like ibanez is bad..hes a consistent .290 hitter with consistent years of 20+HR and 100 RBI throughout his 30’s..so, he can hit…you just need to protect him with right-handed hitters behind and preferably ahead of him

163. Manny Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 11:58 am

     Mets GM Omar Minaya recently admitted he did not expect to pursue A.J. Burnett or Derek Lowe, saying, “I’m probably not going to be in there right now, financially. Not after spending all the money that I did on K-Rod.” Sherman isn’t sold, though – he thinks Lowe’s price could drop and give the Mets a shot.

164. Ben Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

     i believe his splits against lefties were good last year. could have been a fluke, but it looked like he wasn’t too bad.

     imo, you use manny’s lineup. werth just has to step up and be a huge player this year, there is no two ways about it.

     ibanez overall is a more complete hitter than the bat. he hits for much better average, more rbis (in a mariners line up, imagine what he would have done in our lineup at cbp), and about 25% less strikeouts. we lose some in slugging and hrs, but how much of that will be adjusted at cbp?

     finally, burrell was making 14.25 mil last year. there is no way he goes through arbitration and makes less money. he was coming out with at least 16 mil. we saved at least 6 mil with this deal and locked up our outfield for the next few years.

     i’m not saying its the best signing, but it is pretty good.

165. Manny Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

     I agree Ben. If the deal is actually 10M per year, we save approx. 6 (since Burell accepting arbitration would’ve been 16M) minus the first-round pick we now lose.

     So we save 6M but lose a first round pick. Financially, not bad.

166. Don M Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

     Rollins-Victorino-Utley-Howard-Werth-Ibanez-Feliz-Ruiz-Hamels on opening day

167. Manny Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

     I’ve also read a few comments from Mariners fans and they are not happy because “they let our arguably best/most consistent player go. This doesnt make sense.” Also, “Playing on under acheaving teams has hurt his star power. He is always a class act. Good luck Phils, you are getting a great person.”

     I’m starting to feel good about this.

168. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

     Now that I think about it, this isn’t bad because we technically don’t know that Utley will be back to 100% – both in terms of health and his swing – by Opening Day. Like, none of us are happy with this, but it’s better than starting Jenkins or re-signing Burrell when he still won’t come down to Earth price-wise.

     Our lineup just got a hell of a lot less versatile, though. Before you could switch Victorino and Werth between the two and six spots without batting an eye, depending on the matchups. But now? You absolutely CANNOT afford to have Werth playing anywhere except 3-slot or 5-slot. Which is fine, except that his speed is sort of being wasted there, and you can’t bat Shane in either of those spots because he’s far too valuable at the top of the order or 6th and anchoring the second half of the lineup. I can’t fault Ruben for choosing Ibanez over Jenkins, but I’d feel a hell of a lot better if he at least signed Gabe Kapler or some other career RH platoon guy. Because if we don’t get a guy like that and Werth doesn’t do well against RHP, then what – we do (S) Rollins (S) Victorino (L) Utley (L) Howard (L) Ibanez (L) Jenkins (R) Feliz (R) Ruiz.

     The good news is that he’s not a Met.

169. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

     Where’d you see that, Manny?

     lineup (vs. LHP): Rollins Utley Werth Howard Ibanez Victorino Feliz Ruiz
     lineup (vs. RHP): Rollins Victorino Utley Howard Werth Ibanez Feliz Ruiz

170. Manny Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

     The Mets-not-going-after-Lowe story: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/shermans-latest.html

     The comments from the Mariners fans are on a Fox Sports news story

171. Bloagie Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

     Werth will not bat 3 or 5 b/c he’s not a 3 or 5 spot guy. It will be utley, howard, ibanez. Ibanez is the only consistent hitter that can protect howard and your not moving ultely out of the 3 spot to 5. Werth is better off 2 or 6, switching with victorino when need be. The Phils have to get a right-bat coming off the bench, so that will happen, no doubt.

     And, just b/c they signed Ibanez doesn’t mean there not going to get Lowe. Bringing moyer back is not the way to go, unless they sign moyer as a 4/5 and bring in someone as a 2, like lowe. That’s not going to happen though. One of the “kids”, according to Amaro, will fight for the 5th spot. I still strongly believe we get Lowe.

172. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

     You might see Ibanez bat third on opening day.

     I think the lineup concerns are legit, but I’d wait to see if it becomes something other teams really take advantage of before I put Werth 3rd or 5th. This is only about forcing teams to use multiple relievers to get through the 6-7-8th in tight games. It’s not the most critical thing in the world. How many really good lefty relievers are there in the division?

173. KM Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

     I love the Ibanez signing. Very good player, both offensively and defensively. I have family in Seattle, and they say we are getting a solid player, beyond the numbers. Apparently he is very underrated defensively – I can’t imagine someone with less range than Burrell, so there we improved.

     Opening day lineup:
     1. Rollins 2. Victorino 3. Werth 4. Howard 5. Ibanez 6. Feliz 7. Bruntlett/Donald 8. Ruiz 9. Hamels

     Lineup with Utley healthy:
     1. Rollins 2. Victorino 3. Utley 4. Howard 5. Werth 6. Ibanez 7. Feliz 8. Ruiz 9. Pitcher

     Lineup I’d like to see:
     1. Victorino 2. Utley 3. Rollins 4. Howard 5. Werth 6. Ibanez 7. Feliz 8. Ruiz 9. Pitcher

174. Geoff Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

     Willy Taveras will be non-tendered…what if he can be a cheap bench bat? hes right handed i think…

175. Mike B. Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

     Interesting thoughts, Memphis. If we do the three straight lefties, I’d rather bat Howard-Ibanez-Utley 3-4-5. Howard isn’t any good against lefties, but having two guys who are good against lefties (Ibanez and Utley) behind him, plus Werth or Victorino, will take some pressure off him – and he puts too much on himself. Then sign Gabe Kapler – a very good defensive fielder from what I’ve read – and use him as a PH/ defensive replacement. He’s done that before.

     KM, very unconventional lineup. Two mini-lineups with two leadoff men? Very interesting. I’d invert Rollins and Howard to make our lineups 1-2-3 then 1-2-3 again. But still, pretty interesting.

176. Memphis Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

     Burrell third all-time in Phillies history for HRs (251), only 8 behind Del Ennis. Howard (177) should get to second place if he’s around and healthy for 2 more seasons. Good luck, Pat.

177. TheDipsy Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

     Ibanez will bat third on opening day. Especially with his OBP.

178. Don M Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

     I really don’t think Donald comes up… he played at AA last year, and I don’t see how he could ready to just jump to the majors..

     I forgot about Utley’s imjury already.. but the Opening Day lineup depends on the Braves pitchers.. if they get Burnett, I’d imagine he’s the ACE.. Whats up with Smoltz? Hudson is still pretty good, but the Phillies hit him well.. Jurgens is going to give us fits as he gets better

     If its Burnett:

     Rollins-Victorino-Ibanez-Howard-Werth-Dobbs(Feliz)-Ruiz-Hamels …they need to start the season with a WIN this year

     I think the Nationals were trying to get Willy Taveras, but that was last week

179. TheDipsy Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

     I have a sneaking suspicion that we may start to see a Jenkins/Werth Platoon in right. Werth totally bail against tough righties. He’s gotta stop that, maybe open up his stance a little bit. MY OPENING DAY LINEUP:
     RH
     Victorino
     Donald
     Rollins
     Howard
     Ibanez
     Jenkins
     Dobbs
     Ruiz

     LH

     Victorino
     Donald
     Rollins
     Howard
     Ibanez
     Werth
     Feliz
     Ruiz

     I like it.

     Victorino has just HAS to bunt some more.

180. Malcolm Says:
     December 12th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

     Good luck Pat the Bat! You were a class act and our Mets killer. You will always be remembered as a Phillie, and I, for one, will cheer for you throughout the remainder of your career. You’re a champion. Go play for the Rays, brother. I’m having a beer for breakfast today, so, cheers Pat Burrell. And hello, Ibanez.

     I like this signing financially. The draft pick..? Well, we would have to give it up if we signed Lowe. I’d rather give our first round pick to Seattle, and if we sign Lowe, give that second round pick to L.A.

     I’ve watched Ibanez play over the years. This is a good pick-up for us. He’s a good player. I wouldn’t worry about the overabundance of lefties in the lineup. When Marson breaks in, he’ll be a good RHB- and one of the benefits of Jimmy Rollins is that he can bat pretty much anywhere in the order. I think we might see Shane at leadoff, and Utley in the two-spot a little more often. I also think that Werth will jump around in the order a lot.

     As for Lowe, I’d still like to see him come here. We all keep seeing various reports that the Phillies ARE or AREN’T interested. Derek Lowe wants to play for a contender, and we’re the champions. He’d be our #2. In NY, he’d be a #4 or #5. I can’t see the Phillies singing a starting pitcher other than Moyer or Lowe right now. Saying that signing Ibanez and Lowe makes/would make our team significantly older is clearly unfair as well. We had Jamie and Adam Eaton pitching last year, how does that make us an older team than last year? Also this is also a go-for-the-gold decision, a here and now direction for the team. I dig it, it’s what they need to do the season after winning it all.

     Please Pat– don’t sign with the Mets.

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