Phillies Nation

151 Responses to “DeRosa Trade: Phillies Confirm Deal”

1. Johnson Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

   i love getting derosa…but marquis…ehh. depends on how much salary the cubs are willing to eat…i would much rather the orioles take him and let the phils dump what they would have to pay jmarq into lowe or moyer…like derosa alot though for coste and happ

2. Georgie Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

   Yikes, Tim, I can’t keep up! Going back to your first post to catch up on today’s news. And no more caffeine for you today!

3. NJ Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

   Marquis… Would rather slot Eaton back into the rotation.

4. Tim Malcolm Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

   Shoot. To me, Happ and Marquis are about even. Both will be good for the back end. So the real deal comes with DeRosa vs. Coste. Everyday player vs. backup catcher? Come on.

5. Manny Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

   1. I rather have Happ than Marquis
   2. If we get Marquis, forget about getting both Moyer and Lowe.

   If it happens, we BETTER go after Lowe if we want a net upgrade in our pitching staff.

   So I’d prefer Baltimore to get Marquis and a chunk of his salary so that we can continue to go aggressively after Lowe and Moyer.

6. Geoff Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

   eh…im not really excited about marquis..are you counting him as a replacement for moyer or lowe? i assume you still sign lowe and marquis is yoru 5th man, moving on from moyer, but…moyers better than that guy anyway…not really into that idea…maybe you can take him and flip him…plus, im NOT touching that guys 10mm salary, the cubs are going to have to eat most of that….

7. Griffin Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

   I like Derosa, but I’m not that high on Marquis. But, if the Cubs eat some of his contract, then it’s a good deal.

8. Geoff Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

   tim…i assume youre going to make the cubs eat that fat salary of his…i mean, if you want someone at the 5th spot whos going to bottom out in july just in time to bring up carlos carrsasco, then this is your man…

9. Tim Malcolm Says:
   December 9th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

   That’s part of the caveat, Jeff: The Cubs would have to eat much of Marquis’ salary.

   I like Happ as much as the next guy, but I’m weary about his future.

10. Tim Malcolm Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Also, just to back my thought process here:

    You want depth at starting pitcher. Obviously it’s a lateral move taking away Happ and adding Marquis, but by getting DeRosa via trade, you eliminate the need for a left fielder and free up all the FA money to add at least Lowe, maybe both Lowe and Moyer.

    Is Hamels/Lowe/Myers/Blanton/Moyer/Marquis too much? No. You can never have too much pitching. Add in Carrasco and Kendrick, BTW.

    But the key is DeRosa. He patches left field without spending a dime.

11. TheDipsy Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    Marquis totally blows. Don’t want him!

12. Robbi P Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Regardless of what the Phillies get this trade will be huge in our gauging of Amaro. Many people will get their impression due to this deal.

    I like Happ and think he has upside which is something that can’t be said about Marquis. I think the interesting part is the departure of Coste, meaning that the organization wants Marson and Ruiz in there.

    I don’t mind Derosa and his 20(yes 20, one was foul, I was there haha) homerun’s which is an upgrade over Bruntlett as a utility player.

    Finally, I’m still hoping the Phillies pull a fast one and trade away Happ, Donald and maybe one other for Peavy. Its a pipe dream but this is winter meetings!

13. Geoff Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    well i just think they mishandled happ and now hes lost in the mix…whereas if he was handled right hed be a 3/4 now in his development, but hes a 5 now. so its good to trade him…ok, if you can get the cuts to beat a lot of that salary, ill go for it..

14. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    ESPN is reporting the Dodgers have signed Mark Loretta to a one-year, 1.4 million dollar deal.

    Derosa can play 2B until Utley comes back and then become part of the LF platoon.

    It all depends how much of Marquis’s contract they are willing to eat. He has one year left at $9.875 million. So, he’s a free agent after ‘09.

15. Chuck P Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    Not thrilled about Marquis… I think he’s a better 5th starter right now than Happ (Happ has more potential) but how much is he going to cost? DeRosa is a nice pickup (certainly better than Coste) but is he our answer in LF? He is a great player… a four tooler and one of the true MVP’s of that Cubs team… but he lacks power. I don’t know… I still think that we need a RH power hitter to protect Howard.

16. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Maybe it is just me but I really do not see how this trade benefits the Phillies? I like DeRosa, always have, but what is he to the Phillies? A super utility guy who can play every position but pitcher and catcher. Ok thats great, but don’t we already have a guy who can do that in Bruntlett? Do we need two? Honestly, if you are going to go out and get DeRosa then Bruntlett has no place on this team. What then do you do with him? Trade him for next to nothing? Who wants a guy with little pop, hits about 220 and has a decent glove? The Tigers maybe but they just signed Everett. I agree that if you look at it as a Coste for DeRosa swap then it makes sense, especially if Marson is your guy waiting in the wings but I would honestly rather Marson be a start in the minors than a spell guy with Ruiz in the majors.

    So now it comes down to Marquis vs Happ, I’d take Happ for two reasons, he is about 7 years younger and a lefty. What is Marquis honestly? A 10 win guy with about a 4.50 ERA. Happ can do that, for less money, even if the Cubs do eat most of Marquis’s salary.

    I personally think we should not even be involved in this trade with the Padres and Cubs, we are not getting enough out of it. The Cubs get Peavy, the Padres get three good young pitchers and the Phillies get a super utility guy and a backend starter…doesn’t seem fair to me.

    I say we just stick with the idea of resigning Moyer and trying to sign Lowe.

17. Johnson Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    if marquis is my 5th starter at around 3mill and derosa my LF at 5mill i like it. leaves plenty of dough for lowe or moyer…doubt they do both if they take marquis on…coste as much as i respect him is not on this team next year so involving him in a trade is wise

18. Manny Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    I agree with your thought process, Tim. The only thing is that I think that Happ for Marquis is not purely a lateral move, as I think Happ is still young and can be really good as a SP.

19. Johnson Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    ed and chuck…derosa hit 20hrs last year…dont think power is an issue combined with a .285 average

20. MA Phanatic Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    NJ, please don’t even say you want Adam Eaton back in our rotation. Ever. Under any circumstances. Ever. Cannot stress that enough.

    I agree with Tim in that you cannot have too much pitching, but I think this deal has to depend on how much we pay Marquis.

21. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Johnson, you are right DeRosa hit 21 last year, but before that he never hit more than 13. Now granted I am sure in Philly he could hit between 15-20 without an issue but I prefer to look at history rather than just his most previous year. But if you, and by you I mean, all of us, are thinking DeRosa is your replacement to Burrell than I guess I can accept that. He has less power than the Bat but hits for a higher average, is a better fielder and can be moved to play other positions if the Phils decide that maybe they want to give Feliz off, put DeRosa at third and can then put Jenkins in LF, Victorino in CF and Werth in RF. Anyone know how much longer DeRosa is under contract? Do we really want to revisit this next year with trying to find another left fielder?

    Again, my hang up is Happ vs Marquis.

22. Manny Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    I reallyyyyy hope they just send Marquis to a fourth-team (Baltimore). That way we will be almost forced to get both Lowe AND Moyer.

23. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Bruntlett is arbitration eligible which means he’s up for a raise. If you acquire Derosa, you can just DFA Bruntlett and not have to pay him.

24. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    Derosa is owed $5.5 million in 2009 and is a free agent after the season.

25. Matt Kwasiborski Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    I would love for DeRosa to come here. He had a career year last year with the Cubbies and his stats should equate in CBP. Plus, he is a super utility guy who is way more valuable than Bruntlett. DeRosa has more pop in his bat. And who says we have to get rid of Bruntlett? I think DeRosa winds up our everyday LF if this is all we get position wise. I think you have Donald in for Utley, Bruntlett as your utility and DeRosa as the new LF.

    Here is the thinking about Marquis. He is more valuable than Eaton first of all. And the Phils are in a position where they are accepted proven major league talent over older prospects or marginal prospects. I think Happ has plenty of potential however he is still unproven. Marquis, while not a sure-fire out machine has had some success in the majors. The Phils are going for it next summer again because they know our core players are in their prime and will start declining soon. I have no problem adding yet another proven arm to the roster sacrificing a mid level and older prospect.

26. Andrew Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    If Marquis means we lose a chance at Lowe, I say we stay away from this deal.

27. Johnson Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    ed i also have a hangup with happ v. marquis…i would rather jmarq go to another team since it would increase the chances of phils landing lowe AND moyer. with marquis that would not happen. but if you must take marquis to get derosa than i am onboard as long as we are spending 3mill or less….thoughts?

28. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    I agree Andrew, if Marquis prevents us from getting Lowe, then I don’t do this. But if the Phillies are just pretending with Lowe, then maybe this is one of the few ways we can make the team better.

29. MP Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    I don’t like DeRosa or Marquis. I think we’d fare better with agressively pursuing Lowe and Moyer, signing at least one of them. Happ I think can be developed into a better pitcher.

30. Fran Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    I’m not sure about this one. Happ and Marquis are the same but Happ is much younger. DeRosa is better than Coste but DeRosa is already 33. I kinda hope they dont pull the trigger on this.

31. metsblow4show Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    I’m hoping Marquis is headed to Baltimore. I’m not a Marquis fan and if we do get him you can forget about Amaro pursuing both Lowe AND Moyer. He will plug Marquis in as the 5ht starter and go after one or the other, not both.

    Hey Ed, how can you possibly compare Mark DeRosa to Eric Bruntlett? Eric Bruntlett sucks ! He can’t hit, he is an average defensive player at best and his baserunning blows. I don’t know how many times he pich ran for Burrell and after a single to right he was standing on second because he didn’t read the ball off of the bat. He was even picked off twice. DeRosa can play the infield and outfield, will hit .290 and can hit you 20 homers. I wouldn’t even offer Bruntlett arbitration, I’d let him walk and sign the switch-hitting Nick Punto to replace him. With DeRosa and Punto you have a far more versatile bench and give Uncle Charlie more options.

32. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    K-Rod close to becomming a Met…..3 Yrs/12.5 mil per courtesy of ESPN.On the surface it wouldn’t be a bad deal for both sides.We are in the middle of a recession and it may not be the 5 Yr/15 Mil he wanted,but its a compromise.Minaya is being very crafty about this because not many “Big Market” teams need a closer and is not going to outbid himself.With this out of the way,I’d LOVE to see the Mets also go after Kerry Wood,as well as bringing back Isringhausen….now THAT’D be a Great 7-8-9 punch for the Amazins.Build that bullpen up Omar and DESTROY that poison pen we had for the last few years.

33. Mark Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    I like the idea of getting Derosa for Happ but, I’m not too sure about Marquis. Derosa in left would be perfect, plus don’t forget that we have Jenkins, too.

    Derosa for Happ seems like it’d be more beneficial for us now but, better for the Cubs’ future.

    If this deal does go down, and it seems as if it will, I hope the Phillies really pursue Lowe and solidify our starting rotation.

    This deal could show that we are not just a “one and done” for the next 28 years.

34. NJ Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    DeRosa would be a great move but Marquis is on the same trash heap we have Eaton on, he’s making a shade under $10m this year with an attitude problem and a buyer beware sign on his back. He’s a borderline C level guy and to facilitate a Peavey to the Cubs deal we should be getting a better peice of the pie.

35. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    I was just thinking something…..I have an honest fair trade for Mets/Phils….With Chase out for at least the 1st half and your need for a 2nd baseman and we can use a salvagable starter….Its a stretch, but here goes…..Luis Castillo for Adam Eaton…..Garbage for Garbage.

36. Matt S Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    I hate marquis…the dude is the slowest on the mound, Steve trachsel style, i just cant handle that on the phillies, at least moyer does with in reason and for the right reasons…marquis just blows…we have the bargining chip here, the cubs desperately want peavy, so make them make some moves outta desperation…

37. Don M Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Happ is probably better right now that Jason Maquis.. and since he’s only 26 years old, and he’s a lefty… he’s got way more upside.

    DeRosa is a nice player, but hell be 34 to start the season, and he’s played the equivalent of 5.5 seasons

    so his averages are .274 avg, 13 HRs, and 64 RBIs.. You want to trade a 26 year old Lefty Starter for that??

38. Mike B. Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Amen Ed. Especially if we can’t sign Moyer. It’d be nice to have another lefty on the cheap like we’d have with Happ. And DeRosa…his numbers are good. And his OBP keeps improving every year. But…wow I don’t know. If we have to take Marquis…oh Jesus are we really gonna trade for DeRosa and a guy who has almost as many walks (70) as he does strikeouts (91)? Um, that’s actually a 1.3 to 1 K/BB ratio…which is actually equal to Adam Eaton’s K/BB ratio (57/44). I don’t want another Adam Eaton. No way in hell. And we probably give up a shot at Lowe since I’ve a feeling that Ruben wants to sign another lefty, be it Moyer or Wolf. I think we need a guy like DeRosa, but NOT at the cost of signing another Adam Eaton. Let’s hold off on this trade for awhile and see where we stand with other free agent pitchers unless it needs doing now because of some unnamed competition.

39. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Question….with DeRosa going to Philly….Does that mean Pat the Bat is available?

40. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Eaton is owed $9 million this year

    Luis Castillo is offered $18 million over the next 3 years. I’d stick with Eaton’s contract and use the extra $9million somewhere else.

41. Eb Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    If we take Derosa, I am immeadeately announcing to the league that Donald is available and see what type of deal you can make

42. mike mike Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Cubs starters, Peavy, Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, Marshall. our starters Hamels, myers, blanton, marquis, cheap option, how do we match up now let the real experts tell me last year we did it, well this is a new year and unless there is a miracle this team can’t compete with the cubs and if the braves get burnett we can’t match up with there starters, and with all the bullpen guys on the market, the braves will be way better. Thank you cheap bas### owners.

43. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Every team’s fans overrate their own prospects. J.A. Happ is a nice little pitcher, but he never was a top prospect and doesn’t project to be anything more than a 4th/5th starter.
    Would anyone have traded Kyle Kendrick before last season? Now you can’t get a bucket of balls for him.

44. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Griff…..you mean to tell me you’d be content with a $9 million dollar pitcher in the Minors than an experienced 2nd baseman who can help your team? It is a bad contract for a bad contract,plus a change can do players a bit of good.However,a healthy Castillo who shows up at Spring Training can help us,but the question is….how big of a risk is it going to be not signing Orlando Hudson and keeping him?

45. Mike B. Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    I’d be more willing to give up Happ if Jason Marquis weren’t involved. If his name weren’t in the deal, I’d feel better knowing we could go after both Lowe and Moyer. Hell, even if we missed out on both, I’d be okay with Randy Wolf and Braden Looper (basically as 4 and 5 starters your job is not to suck, which I’m pretty sure both can do). But Marquis? Oh damn. You know they’ll also go the Moyer route when they get Marquis, and while I like Jamie, we’d all rather have Lowe. Why do I feel like I’m watching Ed Wade trying to make a trade when I see this news?

46. Brian Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    This is a great deal for the Phils especially if the Cubs are eating salary. It needs to get done now!

47. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Griff….you can call them cheap bas#### owners….but remember,these are the same bas#### owners who brought you guys the World FVCKING Championship.Don’t forget that and I know you wont….Oh and BTW,Good to see Jimmy Rollins is spending time in Philly this winter,He was on Monday Night Raw last night.HEY I need something to watch with baseball outta here for the next 2 months.

48. Don M Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    The more I read about it, the less this makes sense for the Phillies… the Cubs would have 6 pitchers if they get Peavy.. the reason they want to get rid of Marquis is because he is due to make $9.875 M next season… if the whole reason to move him is to get rid of that salary, then they aren’t going to eat most of the salary in his trade.. they would just keep him instead, or someone else would have to pay probably half, which still is overpaying for Marquis.

    If the Padres get our players in return.. and we’re shopping for pitchers too, why don’t we just trade Happ, Coste, and Donald to the Padres for Peavy straight up..

    I know he has a no-trade clause and said he would go to the Cubs, but did he ever say he wouldn’t come here?

49. Matt Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    I would pay someone NOT to take Marquis. So we’re going to have Eaton AND Marquis clogging up our 40 man roster? No thanks.

    Haap for Derosa is okay at best, but I’d stand pat, sign Punto and bring up Donald.

50. Don M Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Griffin, I agree 100% that everyteam overrates their own prospects, and that Happ doesn’t project to be a top of the rotation starter or anything.. but those #4 and #5 pitchers help just as much for winning games throughout the season.. and you’d have a LHP in Happ that would be under your control and paid cheaply over the next few season, while your other upcoming prospects are guys that could play the corner outfield spots in a few years

    I’d rather have Adam Eaton in LF this year to keep Happ and then have other options next year or the year after.. then trade Happ for DeRosa .. and then you need to get a pitcher to replace Happ too instead of just replacing a corner outfielder… you’d solve your LF problem this season, by creating a lack of pitching for this season, and years to come..

51. metsblow4show Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Hey Grrrumpy, why would the Phillies want to take on Castillo’s 18 Mil when he is only going to play for a month til Utley is back? He isn’t a utility player since he can only play one position. Thanks but NO thanks, our garbage is more appealing then yours.

52. NJ Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    If were facilitating a deal to give the Cubs the best rotation in the game by a mile then we’ve got to make a run at getting something promising in the deal, but the Padres land their prospects, the Cubs an ace and we make off with DeRose, I like the guy but he’s not enough to make the deal worth it for us.

53. Tim Malcolm Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    “I know he has a no-trade clause and said he would go to the Cubs, but did he ever say he wouldn’t come here?”

    He didn’t say he wouldn’t go to Philly, but it’s been widely known that there are only a few places Peavy wanted to go: the Cubs, the Dodgers, the Braves, the Padres.

54. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Grrrrumpy, metsblow4show, made my point for me. Why do the Phillies need Castillo? Utley is out a month. What would they do with Castillo for the other 2 and a half years?

    And I think you have me confused with someone else. I’ve never said the term “cheap bas#### owners”, nor do I think they’re cheap.

55. Jeff Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Keep the tall lefty. He will pan out to be an 18 game winner sooner than you think. DeRosa is a utility player at best. Give Pat the Bat a little more $$ and concentrate on geting another starter.

56. Jason B Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    I do not want Jason Marquis. If the Phillies take him in the deal, he will likely be our major pitching aquisition. Also, the reason DeRosa is interesting is his ability to play outfield as well. DeRosa will not in my eyes be an acceptable replacement for Burrell. I really hope these are rumors, because if not this could be the end of the Phillies off season moves. We have a viable 2nd base options, Brunlett and Donald. However, knowing Utley’s work ethic, I gaurentee he will start Spring Training and be ready for opening day. If a goalie in Hockey can come back early from this injury, with the amount of movement required for that position, I promise that Utley will start the season.

57. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    Don M., I hear your point about Happ. I don’t think this deal is a no-brainer, but I think Derosa is a much better LF solution than anything else out there (Rivera, Baldelli, etc.) and Derosa can play 2B until Utley comes back, so by making this trade, the Phillies save the trouble of bringing in free agents for those positions.

    I’d rather have Happ than Marquis, but if we have to sacrifice Happ in order to bring in Derosa (and Marquis at below market price, assuming the Cubs help pay his $9.875 million salary) then I’d do the trade.

58. Don M Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    Sign Punto.. have Coste, Punto, Dobbs, Bruntlett, Jenkins/Stairs as your bench next season.. DeRosa is an alright player, who probably saw nothing but fastballs last year hitting between Soriano, Derek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, Geovanny Soto. etc… their lineup was STACKED… and he benefited greatly from it.. to think he could do that again this year would be a mistake, because he wouldn’t be the “answer” to our LF problem.. he would be a stop-gap.. but then create a hole in our rotation because of it..

    DON’T MAKE THIS TRADE

    what happened to the Josh Vitters talk.. if we seriously throw him in the mix, the Phillies then need to make this deal because it would give you a top prospect at 3b, which we have nobody close now. Vitters hit .328 in 61 games of A-ball and was named the Northwest League’s TOP PROSPECT by Baseball America he had a 26 game hit streak, 32 of his 85 hits went for extra bases… and he’s only 19 years old

59. Manny Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    I agree with Mike B.

    Getting Marquis (who is no better than Happ and whom we’ll have to pay like 5M) will seriously compromise our financial ability to get both Lowe and Moyer. With Marquis in the rotation, we’d only have one lefty (Hamels) and that could make us ditch Lowe and go for Moyer. In that horrible scenario, our starting rotation could be even worse than last year.

60. Chris.I Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    This is what you do…
    1.Stay away from helping the cubs achieving the best starting pitching in baseball, and take Peavy for ourself
    2.Sign Ibanez
    3.Sign Lowe

61. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Josh Vitters would be going to the Padres, not the Phillies.

62. Don M Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    We should trade Eaton for Pujols, and Bruntlett for Arod too

    …you know, since we’re being crazy with our ideas

63. Paul Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    It bothers me that Phillies would be “helping” facilitate a trade of Jake Peavy to the Cubs. The last thing I want to see is that team get better.

    I say pass.

64. Don M Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    If we’re getting Punto, we don’t trade for DeRosa… and the fact that we already have Bruntlett who could play 2b, .. this trade sucks, the rumor sucks, and I really hope they dont do it

65. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Shouldn’t the primary concern be whether or not this trade makes the Phillies better?
    Who cares about the Cubs. They were better than the Phillies this year and look what happened.
    It’s not like the Phillies are the key to this deal. If the Phillies pass, then another team will come in with a mediocre pitching prospect and complete the deal.

66. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Don M, surely you don’t think Bruntlett is as good Derosa?

67. mike mike Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Grumphy even a blind squirrell finds a nut once in a while. Its this kind of cheap alteratives that make us get one tiltle in 28 years, coming off winning and loaded with extra money to spend, and seeing that we will pay to got to the games, will pay for merchandise over 240,000 locally a day for months, raising tickets this year, and you want to sell me mark de rosa and jason marguis. That is a disgrace these will have to replace burrell and moyer, were is the upgrade, but I know they won last year and who ever they get is a nice player and will be better with us, we have magic. And you know why they are cheap fourth largest market and had to have baseball give them money before they build the cbp each year to raise from 27 in payroll to 18, four years before cbp was build they receive 12,8 million next year 11 and 11 and9 how do you sell the fourth largest market as small. only bill giles who has his father name can get that. do you think arizona get million as the fifth market. and they can’t draw flys. so they aren’t cheap yeah.

68. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    For the record, I was not comparing Bruntlett to DeRosa, what I was doing was asking, what DeRosa’s job would be on the Phillies. If it was a replacement for Burrell then ok, if he was brought on to be a utility guy who will play some second while Utley is gone then I questioned the move on the basis that we already have Bruntlett. Not saying that Bruntlett is better than DeRosa, everyone with an ounce of sense knows that is not true, but like a few people pointed out, we are improving our team marginally while allowing the Cubs to have arguably the sickest rotation in baseball history….not sure DeRosa and Marquis is enough for me to make this deal on the SINGLE BASIS that this makes the Cubs a lot better and they give up what? Felix Pie and maybe Sean Marshall?

    No thanks…pass!

69. Chris.I Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    I think a package deal containing Happ/Jaramillo/Kendrick and maybe another player should get the Padres interested. That Cubs deal doesn’t help us out one bit. DeRosa seemed like a better fit last year when we asked for him…We just don’t need him! Bottom line…Sign Ibanez as our everyday LF

70. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    I say we go after Young as our LF…he is 23 years old. So he may be a headcase but if anyone can coach him its Charlie. Ibanez is good but like 40 years old. Either we go after Peavy for ourselves which we can’t do because he doesn’t seem to want to come to Philly or we do not get involved at all.

71. Dean H Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    Forgive me for being dumb, but why in the world would we trade Happ for a 2nd rated pitcher? Why not bribe Peavy to come to Philly for another ring? Explain please why this makes sense to give up a young, possibly very good, pitcher for an older, fair pitcher?

72. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    Dean H, the Phillies would be getting Derosa, who can play any infield position and corner outfield and hit 20 homers with a .376 OBP last year.

73. Stuart Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    This is just a bad deal. How can you replace Burrell a power hitting left fielder with DeRosa. Happ is someone we would rather have any way and develop him ourselves. Do you all not remember how we became world champions? With home grown talent.

74. Chris.I Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    I’d take Delmon Young too..ONLY if he comes with a 2-3 year contract. Young is a decent player, with a powerful arm, and plus he hits for average. I’m not too worried about his ”attitude”. I think he’ll adjust real quick here, but those rumors seem to be dead

75. Don M Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    No I don’t think Bruntlett is as good as DeRosa.. but Bruntlett and Happ is better for your roster than DeRosa and ?

76. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Don M….EXACTLY!!!!!!! DeRosa and Marquis…no thanks.

    As for Young, pretty sure he is arbitration eligible for the next few years so we could probably get him at a decent price.

77. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    I guess I just don’t see J.A. Happ becoming anything more than a 4th starter. Nothing he has ever done would lead me to believe that. But, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

78. Chris.I Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    From my understanding, Peavy only wanted to go to the Cubs..But if thats the case, why did Fox write that article lastnight mentioning that the Phils, and Cubs are both have Peavy under radar? If it was that far fetched, it wouldn’t have been printed up in the paper to begin with.

79. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Jayson Stark on ESPN’s baseball page right now “Peavy headed to Cubs or back to San Diego”

    The Phillies don’t have the prospects to get Peavy. So let’s just put that discussion to bed.

80. Eb Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    Anyone know of any SECRET TRADES???????

    I miss those…

    I would rather explore making a play for Peavy as opposed to any of this three team trade BS. THe only reason the phillies should get in a 3 team trade is if Vitters come to Philly.

81. Chris.I Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Who were the Cubs giving up to aquire Peavy in the first place?

82. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    The Cubs would give up Pie, Sean Marshall, Derosa and Marquis.

83. PhillyFriar Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    Tim: you’re right that Happ and Coste for DeRosa and Marquis is a no brainer from a talent perspective. But I wouldn’t do it for financial reasons.

    DeRosa doesn’t really patch left field “without spending a dime.” He patches left field for 1 year at $5.5 million PLUS the likely $6 million minimum we’d have to pay Marquis. And while Happ isn’t fantastic by any stretch of the imagination, there’s a pretty good chance he can replicate Marquis’ numbers for a fraction of the cost (i.e. at or near the MLB minimum over the next 3 years).

    I just think we can put the $11 million or so to a better use, don’t you?

84. Don M Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Right but wouldn’t you rather have a 4th starter, then go shopping for one that costs $9 M a season ??

85. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Griff….It was MikeMike that phrased “Cheap bas#### owners” Pardon me,I thought that was you.OK if you really feel that way,Eaton in the Minors for 9 million.BOY what wasted talent he was.Now Luis Castillo on the other hand is what 33 years old,and most likely will be healthy in time for spring training?OKAY,I’ll take a healthy Castillo with something to prove,save money on Orlando Hudson.Its true what they say….the BEST trade is the one not made.But if DeRosa goes to the Phillies…I’ll accept Pat Burrell on my team anyday of the week….TWICE on Sunday.

86. I know Sal.. Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    okay…I’m willing to make the sacrifice. I’d be willing to help in expenses by driving my own vehicle and paying all the gas in order to drive Happ, Coste and whomever else to San Diego in order to bring Peavy to Philadelphia.

87. Johnson Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    burrell .250/.367/.507 33hr 86rbi 74r 102bb 136k 33 2b
    derosa .286/.376/.481 21hr 87rbi 103r 69bb 106k 30 2b

    burrel is 32 and derosa is 33 years old

88. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    We have a fourth starter…Happ can be that guy depending on whether we get Moyer back or not. Like Friar said…Marquis and DeRosa cost you 11 mil, why not use that for Lowe? You get him and Blanton becomes your fourth starter, I like that a lot better than Marquis.

89. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Eb….Secret trades are exactly what they are….a secret.So if any trades are made,we’ll all know…but there are a lot of rumors out there.

90. Chris.I Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Oh okay. Sorry, what I meant to ask was who were the Padres actually getting in return? But I pretty much understand now, thanks. I still think we could offer more in return, but your right…Let’s move on

91. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Do not overlook that Burrell walked a hell of a lot more than DeRosa does. LF is a power postion which DeRosa is not. Sure he will get on base but if Utley and Howard are your only two big hitters then you have a problem. They need a right handed power bat. Period.

92. Manny Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    After thinking this over and over and over and over… I say: NO DEAL!

93. GWFightinsFan Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Yeah I just don’t understand why the Phillies would do this either….DeRosa and Marquis are average players, so why would you go out of your way to help the Cubs (a rival NL team) become a much better team? Especially if all we’re getting for it is average players in return. Being average is NOT what won us the World Series last season!
    See this is why I despise the Phillies ownership, always looking for the cheap way to fill holes, and not the best way. I honestly believe they won the World Series last year despite the phillies ownership, certainly not because of them

94. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    That is the only drawback to having won it all last year, if there is a such thing a draw back. Now because the Phils won despite the owners being greedy cheap aholes they can now throw that in everyones face and use it as exhibit A of why you dont have to spend a ton of money to win.

95. mike mike Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Thank you Ed why do people overlook Pat burrell obp. Even when he struggles with the bat he walks, to get someone on for the next guy, obp is important. A lot of the people who are mention to replace him have bad obp. Pat is too expensive at 12-14 per season for three years. I totally agree on this with the phillies, but we have to find a adquate replacement. Really don’t know if DeRosa is the answer but jason marquis is terrible to sell to us as a fourth starter. Especially with a unknown Myers and Blanton. I mean Myers was so bad he had to go to the minors and in two of his last starts didn’t he get shell. and blanton still only 6 of 16 quality starts remember.

96. GWFightinsFan Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Mark my words, Mark DeRosa is not the answer to the Phils left field question…if they get him by midseason we’ll all we wanting to run him out of town, and with our luck Happ will be having an all-star season with the Padres/Cubs

97. mike mike Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    GWfighting Thank you. I have been saying that for the last 10 years. I still think Blanton was a cheap alternation to what was out there but they won even though he only gave them 6 quality starts out of 16 games but they scored a lot in the other games and won. it won’t happen again.

98. Ed Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    And for the record, just because a guy is not pegged as a top flight prospect means nothing. Gavin Floyd, remember him? Gavin Floyd was supposed to be Cole Hamels but better…how did that turn out? Sure Floyd had a good year last year, against the AL which never saw him before. Believe it or not, that stuff matters. Kyle Kendrick exhibit A. I’ll take an unproven rookie like Happ over a proven bum like Marquis any day. Even if the Cubs paid his ENTIRE salary for next year which they won’t do.

99. Griffin Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Wait, what exactly Kyle Kendrick an exhibit of? He was never a highly regarded prospect, was lucky for a few starts in 2007, got bombed in the playoffs and was brutal this year. If anything, he’s an example of a fan base overrating their own prospect. But, I digress….

100. Gavin Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

     Kendrick, Happ, Marson, and Donald for Peavy.

101. Ed Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

     Kendrick was an exhibit of how a guy can be good one year because no one has scouting reports on him but then totally blow the next year.

102. GWFightinsFan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

     The only way I would even remotely consider this deal is if Vitters somehow made his way into the Phillies hands. He’s considered a big-time hitting prospect from what I understand and it’s never a bad thing to look ahead to the future as well.

103. Griffin Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

     How would the Phillies get Vitters? Who even mentioned Vitters? He would go from the Cubs to the Padres, NOT to the Phillies.

104. GWFightinsFan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

     I’m not saying its gonna happen, just saying that was the only circumstance in which i’d even consider it

105. Griffin Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

     I gotcha, but the Phillies aren’t in the position of trading major league talent (which is what the Cubs want) for prospects who are a few years away. Vitters is a beast though and is way better than any prospect we have.

106. Ed Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

     Gavin you are crazy…Marson and Donald? Sorry no dice. I would not trade Marson under any circumstance. Ok well maybe if someone offered me Marson for Peavy straight up but that is not going to happen. Do not overlook how important it is to have a smart catcher that knows how to call a ball game.

107. Don M Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

     Vitters hasn’t shown any power yet in the minors.. but he can flat out hit. and at 19 years old he’s 6′3″ and 200 lbs, so you have to think that he’ll add both muscle and then power in the next few seasons..

     I dont know the first thing about his defense though, and if he doesn’t project as a 3b, then he’s not really what we need.

     ..not really sure how that talk got started, I had commented on the fact that only getting DeRosa back for Happ + anything wasn’t that great an idea… Marquis blows so I don’t want him included

108. GWFightinsFan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

     I still think they ought to make a run at Peavy….Carrasco, Donald, Jaramillo and Happ for Peavy. But that’s only if they’re sure they can sign him to an extension. Then they can try to sign Lowe or resign Moyer and then the rotation for next year is Pimp. I know, some people dont like the idea of giving up those prospects, but look, there is no guarantee that any of those guys will pan out..we KNOW Peavy is a stud, so let’s go after him

109. Chris.I Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

     The Phils and Yankees are the front runners for Lowe at 5 years 80 mil…I think the Yankees are just raising the bar to make us spend more. How the hell are they trying to pick up Sabathia, Burnett, Lowe, AND Sheets? What about the rest of their staff? Something just doesn’t seem right here.

110. Ed Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

     The Yankees like to drive up the price on guys so that if their first, second or third choice don’t work out, their fourth choice is still available because they jacked the price up above what EVERYONE else will pay.

111. Chris.I Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

     Yea that makes sense..Besides I can almost guarentee that Sabathia is willing to take a 20 mil difference to play on the west coast, so chances are the Yankees are going to pick up Burnett/Sheets or Lowe/Sheets (depending how much the Phils are interested).

112. Ryan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

     I just read an article that the Padres were very interested in the Phillies minor league pitching prospects and that there have been talks with the Phillies about trading Jake Peavy to the Phils for them.

113. Chris.I Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

     Yea Tim, I agree…There is NO WAY IN HELL Amaro would be that stupid to trade Carrasco off to the Padres, so the Cubs could get Peavy, and we get DeRosa. Thats just the dumbest sh*t I ever heard…Move on now! Lowe, Moyer, and Ibanez/Young

114. Philsphan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

     I don’t think the Phillies would trade Carrasco unless they got somebody like Peavy. Maybe its Kendrick and a young pitching prospect like Joe Savery? Either that or they are just denying the reports as they get the deal together. ESPN says this deal is far from done so I wouldn’t be surprised if it fell apart all together.

115. GWFightinsFan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

     Ryan what article was this?

116. Don M Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

     I thought Sheets was going to accept arbitration from the Brewers so that he can try to stay healthy and get a HUGE deal next offseason..

     Carrasco projects as a top-to-middle of the rotation starting pitcher, Donald and Happ both project as major league players as well.

     Jaramillo was our top catching prospect up until Marson busted out this season..

     Peavy is signed for the next 4 years for like $60 M, so you wouldn’t need to give him an extension.. and he was hurt this year.

     Peavy is an absolute STUD pitcher, don’t get me wrong.. but teams need BALANCE in their starting rotations, not just 2 STUD PITCHERS.. I’d rather keep Carrasco and Happ as potential #2 #4, then trade them PLUS two other players for #2 Peavy.. as Cole Hamels should now be considered the ACE of this staff

117. reddeath Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

     how about madson, happ, jaramillo and donald for peavy. then sign juan cruz for right-handed setup.

118. Don M Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

     How does Savery compare to Kyle Drabek??

     I know Savery would/should be closer age wise, and Drabek is coming off of Tommy John.. but how does either project into a major league rotation??

119. GWFightinsFan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

     We do have balance…Hamels, Peavy, Myers, Moyer/Lowe, Blanton

     And we still have a few young pitchers down in the minors such as Savory and Drabek who have some potential, so its not as if we’re betting the whole farm on the Peavy deal. Plus, I dont think Kendrick is a complete loss…start him off at AAA and let him work some things out, and he can be the first option if someone gets hurt or sucks in our rotation

120. GWFightinsFan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

     red, i can see that trade as well! Madson has very high value right now, and he might be tempting for the Padres to go after to replace Hoffman as their closer..plus we can hang on to one of our top two young pitchers either Carrasco or Happ

121. reddeath Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

     i think thats a better deal then what the cubs where offering and if they don’t what to keep madson let him close for a while build his value and flip him at the deadline. i’m sure petco would make his numbers better. the deal would give them the backup catcher they want, a cheap controled starter, a shortstop replacement for kouzmanoff and a closer or another trade chip.

122. Griffin Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

     Don M, Drabek apparently looked very good coming of TJ and he has now passed Savery as the better prospect.
     Check out phuturephillies.com, it’s a very good website.

123. Chris.I Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

     I don’t think its a matter of the Padres not being interested in such deals everyone mentioned…I’m sure they are! But from my understanding, Peavy has it written in his contract who he decides to be traded to (of course he can waive it if he desired) But from all these articles on MLB rumors, he wants to go to Chicago.

124. tom Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

     Guys the cubs said to jayson stark that they might not be able to take on peavys contract

125. GWFightinsFan Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

     Then Amaro or Charlie Manuel should get on the phone and call Peavy to convince him to come play for the WORLD CHAMPION PHILLIES!!!

126. Don M Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

     So we trade Carrasco and Happ for Peavy

     Myers leaves next year because we can’t afford him.

     We have to Hamels soon, so we’d be paying Peavy, Lowe and Hamels $15 M each = $45 total

     Lidge will be making like $12 M, Howard will be making around $12 M = $24 M + $45 M = $69 M

     Rollins and Utley around $10 M each = $20 M + $69 M =$89 M

     …whoops forgot about Victorino, Werth, Ruiz, and a bullpen…

     Oh well just add to the payroll, handcuff ourselves for the next 5 years, and change our name to the METS

127. metsblow4show Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

     Hey Gw, you don’t need Peavy to sign an extension, he still has a few years on the contract he just signed with San Diego at big money.

128. Chris.I Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

     Than again, I remember Peavy rumors a few weeks ago, that he wanted to go to Atlanta too. If we sign Lowe, than maybe Peavy would be interested? Who knows? I think we all need to just cross our fingers, and enjoy the ride.

129. Don M Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

     I knew that Drabek had a nice fall.. in Hawaii i think??

     And I knew that Savery had a few very good outings in A-ball, and then a few where he was wild with his command..

     I’ve been on that site before, and its good.. I just try not to put too much faith in those kind of websites, because I’ve seen too many Homer Bailey, Lastings Milledge, and Delmon Young flops before

130. Don M Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

     “metsblow4show” is by far the best name on here..

131. reddeath Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

     i’m sure if they were to trade for peavy there is no way the sign lowe. i believe that it’s one or the other. i think peavy’s big issue with any team is the no-trade clause, he doesn’t want to waive that on the rest of his contract. thats why the braves deal fell through, they wanted to take that off his contract and he didn’t.

132. Chris.I Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

     Red thats because the Braves wanted to trade Escobar, and Peavy said if he was going to sign in Atlanta, he wanted Escobar to be a part of the team he’s playing for. And why wouldn’t they want to go after Lowe? Peavy would only be costing us trade chips, and we’d still need to find a replacement for Moyer, especially if Happ and Carrasco is involved in the trade

133. Griffin Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

     espn is reporting that K-Rod to the Mets is official. 3 years $37 million

     Also, the Indians are close on a 2 year deal for Kerry Wood.

134. Geoff Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

     If I was Amaro, Id say this thing has gone on too long…a good GM doesnt wait around too long. If it doesnt get done tonight, then pull out of the trade. Also, with Lowe, are they really standing up to the yankees? thats crazy…..amaro has balls at least…he must REALLY worship lowe…

135. Ed Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

     Let Mets have K-Rod…we have Lights Out Lidge…I will put money down now that a year and a half into this deal the Mets will want K-Rod gone. He is going to get destroyed in the NL. He throws fastball after fastball after fastball and his velocity has dropped considerably from where it was 2 years ago. You do not want to throw fastballs to the NL East, especially the Phils and Marlins.

136. Chuck P Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

     Holy… I just shat myself… 1. Hamels 2. Peavy 3. Lowe 4. Blanton and 5. who the hell cares… it wouldn’t even matter; we could throw Adam Eaton’s mom up there. And Peavy’s wife is kind of cute, too… bonus points. But in all seriousness, as much as we would love to see it happen, Peavy is not coming here. If he does, I’ll change my name to “ILOVEMANBOOBS.”

137. reddeath Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

     Chris.i, my proposed deal didn’t include carrasco. pure speculation, but i think that the no-trade clause was more important, because at the time they had lillibridge and he is good defensively, he just can’t hit. the braves could have also went after furcal, i thought i read somewhere that was an option they were looking at.

138. Chris.I Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 4:30 pm

     Red, The Padres wouldn’t make a deal if Carrasco wasn’t involved. But to make a long story short, either way it wont ever happen-LoL

139. MP Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 4:30 pm

     Ed, completely agree about K-Rod. It will be Billy Wagner all over again.

     Also, don, I think Howard will edge out more than 12 mil in arbitration.

     This is an awful deal. Let Happ prove himself. He has always done what was asked of him – he also got a major september win down the strech. I don’t think we trade happ, donald, jarmillo, and madson? No way.

140. Geoff Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

     This deal wont happen if its all hinging on carrasco, thats arrogant of san diego and the cubs to ask for OUR top prospect AND NOT give us jake peavy…thats a disgrace..kill the deal if they ask for carrasco and move on to juan rivera, derek lowe, and others

141. NJ Says:
     December 9th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

     I’ll re-iterate we need to make more of our prospects and stockpile prospects at every occasion which this rumored deal should be. Our young guys are slowly getting more expensive and FA veterans slowly eat up too much payroll, even DeRosa isn’t cheap. The reason the Cubs can make this kind of deal is the strength they’ve built in their system but even now their hurting from free agent deals.

     (To clarify the above I’d hate to see Eaton back in Philly pinstripes but I’d hate the idea of Marquis more, the rumored salary relief is a maximum of $6m leaving $3+m left on the deal of a bad make-up guy not even wanted anyone)

142. psujoe Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 3:24 am

     Derosa, ugh. No way Carasco is involved. Disappointing if it’s Happ and another pitching prospect. Talk about mortgaging you’re future.

143. GWFightinsFan Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 4:02 am

     Yeah and mortgaging your future for a average talent who’s getting old and probably will be shitty by the end of the season…if we’re gonna mortgage our future at least go all out and make a run at a stud pitcher like Peavy ourselves instead of helping a potential competitor for the NL get him…

144. Pete Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 6:12 am

     OK…this may be answered above, and if so I apologize, but there are too many comments to sort through, sooooo….

     WTF is this trade about, and who are we getting? For that kind of haul, it better not just be DeRosa and Marquis (who is a fly ball pitcher who will be next to worthless at CBP). If Vitters is not involved in this trade, Amaro is a clown, UNLESS he knows he’s got a deal close to done with Lowe and wants DeRosa as the affordable LF replacement. If that’s the way the winter meetings go down (Lowe and DeRosa), then I call it a win.

     FWIW, though I don’t like the trade if all we really get is DeRosa, those who say we’re selling out the future are wrong…Happ and Kendrick are fringe #5 guys at best. It would be nice to have one of them here to avoid rushing Carrasco, but I’m confident the Phils have a better handle on that than we do. Jaramillo is the third-best catching prospect in our system (Marson and D’Arnaud). He is the definition of a throw-in. Unless you really think Happ AND Kendrick had a future on our staff, then we’re really not giving up much.

145. Pete Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 6:25 am

     I will say this though…the Phils (and, I suppose, the Philly media) really do a horrible job of hyping their own prospects. Last year, the Yankees were touting Kei Igawa as a legit piece in a Johan trade. This year, Igawa can be had in the Rule 5 draft. Obviously the Yanks are notorious for overhyping their farm, but the Phils are the reverse. Case in point – several posts on here speculated that Carrasco was involved. That is completely absurd.

     Carrasco is a potential #2 starter who is MLB ready as a #5 guy right now. To trade him for a utility infielder is TOTALLY INSANE by any measure.

     Now, I am not criticizing the posters here, but rather the general vibe from the team and beat writers, who still assume that our farm system is garbage. It’s not. Carrasco is worth moving (IMO) for only two players who have recently been on the block (Matt Holliday and Jake Peavy). And it was only worth trading for Holliday last summer when our RF platoon was faltering and we needed to make a playoff run – I would not have traded Carrasco for Holliday this offseason. Young, affordable pitching is the holy grail in MLB, especially for teams with budget constraints. It’s not an accident that the Padres are insisting on a slew of young pitchers in a Peavy deal.

146. Pete Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 6:43 am

     One last thing (I’m really starved for hot stove rumors having just gotten back off of a flight for work)…while there are trades we could make that the Pads would take for Peavy, it’s a non-starter because he has an NTC and WILL NOT PLAY HERE. So, as much as the Padres might want to take Carrasco, Happ, Drabek and Donald (or whatever package) for Peavy, it can’t happen.

     Bottom line is this – the trade makes sense if we get DeRosa and Marquis (with the Cubs eating $6MM of Marquis’ salary), AND sign Lowe. And let me go on the record against those who think a 5-year deal for Lowe is too much. WHO GIVES A CRAP??? Everyone thinks a 3-year deal for Lowe is good. That would be nice, but that’s not the market rate this year – he will get a five year deal.

     Now, in three years, this team is going to look vastly different – Howard is most likely gone, JRoll’s contract will be up, Myers and Madson will have left, Lidge’s contract will have expired and who knows if we re-sign him (or want to), the list goes on and on. The point is, clearly this team is capable of winning championships RIGHT NOW. Derek Lowe is a huge upgrade to our pitching staff, and I don’t know of anyone who thinks his performance is going to drop off in the next 3 years barring a catastrophe.

     Bottom line – would you take a very legit shot at competing for the World Series for the next 3 years even if you knew that Lowe would crap out and be a fringe #5 for the last 2 years of his deal (at, let’s go high, $17MM per)? I say HELL YES. To the extent that we are competitive 3 years from now it is going to be based on guys from our farm stepping in. Which means that THEY WON’T BE PAID THAT MUCH so even if Lowe is eating money Eaton-style, it’s not going to hamstring us. And if the team falls apart by then, it still doesn’t matter. Trade Lowe at the deadline for some prospects.

147. Manny Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 8:16 am

     Pete, I agree with you on the Lowe thing 100%.

148. Chuck P Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 10:21 am

     Pete… good stuff… I agree with you whole heartedly. I read something about Carrasco being involved in this deal and almost threw up. I mean, how can the national media believe that he’s a chip in this deal. He is being groomed as a bona fide #1 or #2 starter… you just don’t give those players away for anything less than a #1 or #2 that is ready right now. If we did a better job of toting our players (that means, when trade rumors come up, you have to let people know that he’s not an option), guys would have better trade value. On the flip side, I think that we tend to overvalue mid-level prospects… guys that are going to be role players. Guys that don’t have star quality… guys like JA Happ and Kyle Kendrick. #4 starters at best. I would be ok with JJ and Kendrick/Happ for Derosa. I’m not thrilled with it but it is what it is… and hopefully it means that we’re serious about getting D. Lowe.

149. Colin_K Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 10:28 am

     Kendrick and Jaramillo for DeRosa I would be okay with…anything else and we either gave up too much (Happ, Carrasco) or took too much back (Marquis even with salary relief)…remember we are helping the Cubs to facilitate this trade, we should only do it on our terms and not give up anyone that could help the club this year or in the future.

     Get DeRosa for super utility and move on to Lowe & Moyer.

     The only piece needed is another arm in the pen…offer Coste to the BoSox for Hansen or Masterson…they wanted him when the Phils were talking Manny with them, right?

150. Don M Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

     I agree… if its Kyle Kendrick and Jason Jarmillo.. you are moving two guys who wont start for you, for a guy that could be a decent replacement in LF, and at 2b while Utley is out.

     Coste.. for Masterson.. it would need to be Coste plus like 3 prospects to make that happen

151. Mike B. Says:
     December 10th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

     Nicely said, Pete. Maybe we overvalue #4 starters, but at the same time, they’re number 4 starters on the cheap. I’d much rather pay less than a million a year for a #4 guy from the farm system who might get better over time than pay $6 M for a veteran #4 guy who might have nothing. I’m even less willing to give up young #4 for a veteran #4, unless I’m certain I’ll get a bonafide star.

     And sometimes I think that the importance #4 guys are underrated and are dismissed as such and seen as interchangeable. Obviously you don’t have the resources to have an ace at every pitching slot, but you want a decent innings-eater type in the #4 slot who can give you a chance to win (3 or 4 runs a game) and save your bullpen for days when your ace, #2, or #3 just doesn’t have it because that happens sometimes. We don’t know if Happ is one of those types, but I’d rather find that out for $500 K a year than confirm my suspicions that Marquis, who’s IP has been in steady decline since 2005 and had 30 IP less in 2008 than 2007, is not one of those types at $6 M a year.

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