Phillies Sign Raul Ibanez

Posted by Brian Michael, Fri, December 12, 2008 01:19 PM

The Phillies and Raul Ibanez agreed to a 3-year, $30 million contract.

Ibanez, 36, is a career .286 hitter with 182 HR and 794 RBI. Last year with the Mariners, Ibanez hit .293 with 23 HR and 110 RBI. He recorded a .358 on-base percentage and .479 slugging percentage. By comparison, Pat Burrell recorded a .367 OBP and .507 SLG last season.

Since Ibanez was a Type A free agent and was offered arbitration, the Phillies will forfeit their first-round draft pick in 2009 to the Mariners.

Tim’s Thoughts: It’s almost absolutely certain the end of Pat Burrell’s tenure as a Phillie. His nine-year run as left fielder was largely successful; now the Phillies bring in a player of slightly lesser offensive caliber. The difference between Burrell and Ibanez defensively is almost non-existent — Ibanez isn’t that good. So overall, the Phillies gave three years to a player worse than Burrell, but for probably $16M fewer than what Burrell wanted.

Basically, this deal will be determined on those $16 million. Do I think Ibanez will perform his worth — based on the discrepancy between monetary figures — in these three years? Judging his durability (at least 480 at bats the last seven seasons) and prowess against left-handed pitching in 2008 (.305/.368/.497), I do think he’ll adequately fill his spot. Not wonderfully. But adequately (and frankly, adequate is fine in left field).

To me, the largest issue to fret is how the Phillies will now spend money. Do they have enough to still grab Derek Lowe? Do they think the best additions are smaller, value-style additions (such as Chan Ho Park)? Will they make a trade to bring in something larger? Ibanez took a chunk out of the offseason budget, and while he fills the hole adequately, he goes a long way in determining the remainder of the offseason.

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318 Responses to “Phillies Sign Raul Ibanez”

Fran Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I like this move. Cheaper. Faster. Also a solid player
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“Likely closes the door” for Pat…?

The door has been shut.

Goodbye Pat!
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I don’t like this move. Older, left-handed, expensive and costs us draft picks.

How is it that the Mets can take advantage of a flooded relief pitching market and only have to offer a 27 year old K-Rod 3 years, but we can’t take advantage of a flooded corner outfield market (Burrell, Ibanez, Manny, Abrue, Dunn) and have to give a 37 year old 3 years? He’ll be 40 by the end of the contract, how is this smart?
phillies phan Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
We want manny!!!!! Any chances we still get him???
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
That last year of the Ibañez deal could cost us, Griffin… but K-Rod will pitch 1 inning when there’s a save situation, and Ibañez will play nearly every single game.

Two years for Ibañez would’ve been a fantastic deal. But if it’s three, then it’s OK if we’re bringing a guy like him: consistent, in great shape, underrated, and a good presence overall in the clubhouse.
NJ Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Because Ibanez is a pro who plays smart and hits lefties as well anyone, not tendering Burrell will hurt but it was obviously too much of a risk. The Phils have talent and now Amaro’s looking to add character to get more out of that talent, Ibanez influence should make the guys around him better if their willing.
Justin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
There’s likely another move waiting in the wings, trading either Jenkins or Stairs. There’s just no need for 3 left handed outfielders, odd man out would seem to be Jenkins since Stairs is the perfect guy you’d want to come up in a pinch as we saw in Los Angeles.
mw Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
“Faster”??

2008: 2 SB
2007: 0 SB
2006: 2 SB
2005: 9 SB
2004: 1 SB

etc.
Georgie Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I am officially in mourning now, 3 yrs for a guy 37, it’s a slap in the face to Pat, I can’t believe this is happening!

BTW, it’s really ugly on here today, between that and losing Pat, I have to take a LOOONNGGG break from the Nation. Later.
Drewdacri$ Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Not thrilled with this move. I would have rather spent the 30 mil on pitching. And a 3 year deal for a 36 yr old??? Will he be worth 10 mil when hes 39? And another lefty? Now there is no way to break up Utley and Howard unless you bat Chase 2nd. And if you’re not going to do that then you’d have to bat Werth 5th and Ibanez 6th in order not to have 3 straight lefties. And I know Ibanez hit lefties better than righties but that’s not how its been for his career.
NJ Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Faster isn’t basestealing… It’s not a flashy deal but when you really look at it it’s a smart deal.
Brian Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Not sure why most don’t like this deal. Not much out there on the free agent market (that the FO would actually pay for), and we pretty knew Pat wasn’t coming back (asking for a lot of $). I will miss Pat, but it’s time to move on. If he really wanted to stay in Philly, he would have been more flexible from the start regarding years and salary. Ibanez isn’t a bad move.

Justin, I agree – probably another move out there involving one of those guys.
Robbi P Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
The last time that we got a player that avg around 30 hrs and 100 rbi’s was a man named Pedro Feliz and I don’t think we need a stellar defensive LF. Here’s hoping the this is the forerunner to the Phillies signing Lowe.

And just to say this for laughs, It doesn’t matter the lineup when we play the Mets since Putz and K-Rod are righties so in effect Amaro is prepping us for those 7-9 innings against the Mets haha!
Tim Malcolm Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Hey guys,

I’m not minding this move. I’ll have more on it later. Brian helped me here — the one day I decide to move the Phillies actually make news.

Robbi, BTW, Pedro has NEVER hit 30 HR OR 100 RBI.
Gavin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Although I prefer to have Pat back, I think this move is a good move and he will be a good fit. Ibanez is a professional hitter. He won’t drive us crazy like PB did.

There were times when I loved PB and times when I hated him. I didnt think he cared. The last 2 years showed me that he did. He deserves to be on the wall of fame in Ashburn Ally someday.

Good Luck Pat and thanks for alot of great years. You could have given up or never recovered from that one terrible year but you didn’t.
Justin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
God it’s funny how much crying they’re doing on metsblog.com about how they wanted him and that he’s so much better than tatis. And they’re still crying because their own players can’t answer the challenge that hamels put to them by calling them choke artists. Ultimately they’re paying us the highest compliment as they’re saying the Phils are a grittier team than they are.
Johnny Fire Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I like the move. $10 mil a year is much lower than what Burrell was asking for. Also, Ibanez is a good solid pro who will thrive at the bank – 25-30 hrs, 110 rbis and he’ll hit .300. I’m sad to see Burrell go, but we have a good replacement. also, Pedro Feliz was NEVER a 30 hr, 100 rbi man. more like 20 and 80 to go with a .250 average. You can’t compare Feliz and Ibanez.
Justin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Another thing i forgot is that for 82 games a year Ibanez was playing at pitcher friendly Safeco Field so he’s going to add at least 5 HRs to that total which should help his numbers. Probably why he wanted to come here.
Robbi P Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Good Point Tim, my bad, I guess I was dreaming when I heard that!
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I’d like this better if it were a 2 year deal.
I will give Ibanez credit for being consistent. For the last 8 years, his OBP has been between .345 and .358.

Burrell’s OBP has been lower than .359 only twice in the last nine years (.346 in ‘01 and .309 in ‘03)

So Burrell gets on base more, hits lefties better, plays equally crappy defense, and is five years younger. I’m not a huge Burrell fan, but these are the facts.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
For $30 M .. you could get 3 years of Ibanez, who is a better hitter overall than Burrell.

or 2 years of Pat Burrell, who hits more HRs, but also gets replaced late in games for his lack of defensive ability.

I’ll the better hitter for the 3 years.
Malcolm Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Good luck Pat the Bat! You were a class act and our Mets killer. You will always be remembered as a Phillie, and I, for one, will cheer for you throughout the remainder of your career. You’re a champion. Go play for the Rays, brother. I’m having a beer for breakfast today, so, cheers Pat Burrell. And hello, Ibanez.

I like this signing financially. The draft pick..? Well, we would have to give it up if we signed Lowe. I’d rather give our first round pick to Seattle, and if we sign Lowe, give that second round pick to L.A.

I’ve watched Ibanez play over the years. This is a good pick-up for us. He’s a good player. I wouldn’t worry about the overabundance of lefties in the lineup. When Marson breaks in, he’ll be a good RHB- and one of the benefits of Jimmy Rollins is that he can bat pretty much anywhere in the order. I think we might see Shane at leadoff, and Utley in the two-spot a little more often. I also think that Werth will jump around in the order a lot.

As for Lowe, I’d still like to see him come here. We all keep seeing various reports that the Phillies ARE or AREN’T interested. Derek Lowe wants to play for a contender, and we’re the champions. He’d be our #2. In NY, he’d be a #4 or #5. I can’t see the Phillies singing a starting pitcher other than Moyer or Lowe right now. Saying that signing Ibanez and Lowe makes/would make our team significantly older is clearly unfair as well. We had Jamie and Adam Eaton pitching last year, how does that make us an older team than last year? Also this is also a go-for-the-gold decision, a here and now direction for the team. I dig it, it’s what they need to do the season after winning it all.

Please Pat– don’t sign with the Mets.
Justin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Good points malcolm, is that how it will work with Ibanez and the possibility of signing Lowe? Would we give up a 2nd and a sandwich pick for Lowe?
reddeath Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
The guy is a career .280 hitter, .260 againest lefties, .305 with risp, has over a 100 rbi’s the last three years batting in the three hole, and from all accounts is a highly motivated clubhouse guy. I read somewhere a scout said he is in as good of shape as some 25 year olds. I think he is a good stopgap because most of our outfielders in minors won’t be ready for another 2-3 years. Also I’m sure Gillick and Looper know what there getting here since they’re all from Seattle. I would’t be concerned with the loss of a first round draft pick. The draft is suppose to be pretty weak this year at the top, so they’ll just have to spend that 1st round money on later picks.
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
By the way, Ibanez’s career splits:
vs. RHP .293 BA, .355 OBP, .494 SLG
vs. LHP .268 BA, .322 OBP, .411 SLG

So he’s not a better hitter against LHP.
john of Albuquerque Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
In a nutshell — Ibanez is too old for a three-year, $30 mil contract. Even though he is famous for his excellent conditioning, it is too much money for too long. Amaro is not impressing me. Any chance of bringing back Arbuckle?
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Bill James’s fielding Bible rated Burrell the 2nd worst LF and Ibanez the 3rd worst LF.
Grrrumpy Miner Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Wow,the Phils sign an aging player and yet Hispanic too? Wow Ruben Amaro Jr must’ve had the leftover Kool-Aid Omar Minaya was drinking the last few years.This deal is a BIG slap in the face to Pat Burrell and the Phillies Phans.Pat Burrell was the perrinial Met killer and I always hated him for that,but he WAS the Phillies.Big mistake Ruben,BIG mistake.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
so according to Bill James, we definitely improved our defense with the move.. which is nice
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
haha, true Don M, we’ve improved a spot!

Seriously though, who is going to caddie for Ibanez defensively? I guess they’ll go to arbitration with Bruntlett and he’ll be out there late in games again.
Justin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
338 rbi’s over the last 3 yrs which is 2nd to only Magglio Ordonez and just ahead of Vlad Guerrero. Good news for the phils…
psujoe Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Griffin, Ibanez hits lefties better than Burrell. Ibanez batted over .300 agsint left handed pitching. Neither guy actually has much power against lefties. Amazing how most of Burrell’s power is against righties. The Phillies offerred Burrell more money and one less year and he declined. How is Ibanez in the field?
psujoe Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Yikes, just read about Ibanez in the field. yikes.
Brett Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
So Griffin, you’re saying this is an upgrade?

This is a great move. He’s a terriffic offensive player and there’s no way he could be slower than Burrell, who was running on one bad foot when he was here. Pat was a great player and arguably the heart of this team, but it’s time for him to move on.

I would have liked to see him pass Del Ennis on the all time Phillie home runs list though…
T Marty Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
at least Rueben did something, i was starting to call him Rueben Stutter. definitely like Ibanez’s higher average. will miss Pat, but if we still get 30hr 100 rbi for the next three years, all is well.

Now let’s address the pitching…
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
vs. LHP

Burrell: .276 BA, .410 OBP, .540 SLG
Ibanez: .268 BA, .322 OBP, .411 SLG

Burrell is much, much better than Ibanez versus LHP.
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
I’m saying that Pat Burrell is a better hitter than Raul Ibanez. They are both terrible fielders and neither are fast. Burrell has much better career numbers against LHP and therefore is the much better fit for the Phillies. Burrell is also 5 years younger.

The more research I do about Ibanez, the less I like him. Look at those numbers compared to Burrell’s, it’s not even close against LHP!!
Mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
what the hell i hope you guys a enjoy a lineup a 3straight lefties wtf O_O this is just a horrible move the guy is 36 how long do u expect him to last omg at 10million a year and you couldnt do this for pat what the hell!!!
Greg Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
BRING BACK PAT! BRING BACK PAT! BRING BACK MOYER! BRING BACK MOYER!

What in God’s name do we need another left handed bat that can’t hit LHP for? if this move is to replace Jenkins, then fine, good move
But, Burrell?!! Give me a break. Amaro can kiss my ass.
Mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
This guy isn’t better with D his lack of a arm and hes 36 so his speed is limited at best and he has problems with flyballs gosh this guy is worser in left field like chris coste this is why he was a DH at somepoint in his life.!
Mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Haven’t we learned our lesson named 1 player that gillick signed that was good that made over 5million per year. THEY ALL SUCK the one that came thru a trade was Brad Lidge so gillick finds the players for cheap but when he spends money he is EPIC FIALURE!!!
RichieAllen Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
How many times has Ibanez hit 30 home runs and/or hit .300 ?I know he had mucho Rbi’s but also …Is he prone to strikeouts?
Matt W Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Seeing is believing

http://i27.tinypic.com/28akex2.jpg
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
He does not strike out as often as Burrell, but he does not walk as much as Pat.
reddeath Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Griffin you should call the phillies up and ask them to fire Ruben and hired you as GM. You obviously have tons of experience, and know so much more about the game. I’m sure they would be priviledged to take you on to stucture the next world champion team.

P.S. Dude seriously. It seems like you want them to fail with every move they make. I think they have been doing this a lot longer then you. Sure not every move is going to be a homerun, but have a little faith sometime.
TheDipsy Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
When Pat Burrell signs for 2y/17m I’m gonna be very upset we did this.
TheDipsy Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Right now, think Al Oliver.
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
reddeath, I’m just posting facts. I didn’t know a ton about Ibanez until I looked up facts. I never said that Ruben was incompetent or that I know more that him. At the same time, aren’t we allowed to discuss the moves and debate them in a blog?
Maybe I disagreed with a point you have made in the past or something, but you seem to have taken it personally. Accusing me of wanting the Phillies to fail just because I don’t salivate over ever single front office decision they make is just silly.
I have never said that the Phillies are cheap and/or don’t know what they are doing. It’s a blog, I’m just offering my opinion.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I’m starting to think about all the Mets fans saying this is a bad move… because if of all the fans in MLB, Mets fans probably know the most about terrible signings since they see a few every year!
Mike B. Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I miss Pat. I agree with Malcolm, he’ll be one of those guys who may have gone but who you’ll always think of as a Phillie, like Lieberthal, Pratt, Wolf, and Glanville.

The good side – the Mets didn’t sign him. But if THAT’S what motivated our signing Ibanez, then that was a really dumb move, Ruben. You can’t worry about what other teams might do, you’ve gotta work on improving. Hopefully that was the main consideration, but if we signed him just so the Mets wouldn’t get him…bad idea.

The bad side – well-documented above. I’ve also been worried that he’s one of those guys who doesn’t play well for contenders, although Seattle was kind of in contention in 2007 (88-74). But he didn’t even play 100 games until he went to the Royals in 2001 – and in 2000 he couldn’t beat out a 41 year old Rickey Henderson and two 36-year olds to play in the corner outfield. He didn’t hit higher than .260 until he went to KC – he hit .228 in 2000 in Seattle, and that was the year they lost to the Yanks in the ALCS. I might be wrong, but he may be one of those guys who shrinks when they go to a contender.

I say, sign a RH OF like Gabe Kapler – a platoon guy who’s good at defense and can hit lefties.

Is anyone here old enough to remember Luzinski? I’m not, but he sounds like what I’ve heard about Luzinski.
Wolfgang Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
The people that like this deal the most seem to be a little misinformed. Ibanez is an older, cheaper, left-handed Pat Burrell. Both are among the worst fielding players in the game by any advanced metric (both +/- and UZR) and both are very slow players. I don’t have Bill James baserunning +/- stats in front of me but I would imagine both these guys are the same. The Phillies aren’t gaining anything in the field with this move… I’d equate Ibanez in left to the days of Abreu in right when far too many balls used to fall in. He won’t look as bad as Burrell, but he’s no better.

Offensively, Burrell is better. Last year Ibanez hit better against lefties than righties… but his career norms tell an entirely different story so it could be an outlier. Ibanez is not that much of a drop off though (especially accounting for league adjustment), about what you would expect for the difference in cost (though I don’t think Burrell is going to get as big a deal as anyone imagines… this could have waited until after Christmas). What hurts is Ibanez’s left-handedness, setting up Utley-Howard-Ibanez on a platter for any decent LOOGY. You could break them up with Werth, but it’s not a given he’ll duplicate his 2008 performance.

It’s not a terrible move (two years would have been ideal; I do agree the third might be a sunk cost), but this isn’t a better team than last year. Yet.
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Good points Wolfgang. I think it’s not a terrible move, I just don’t get it. Why Ibanez? and why 3 years?
mg52 Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
I don’t see why this move was made. An older player is now adding to the surplus of left-handed hitters in this lineup. And speed and agility should have been more their priority. It looks like they did this just for the sake of having made some kind of acquisition, but we will see how it plays out.
South Jersey Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
All these people who are so against this deal must really not know raul. Yes he is a lefty but he hits leftys better than he does rightys so the way he bats shouldn’t be in this argument. As well as though his age is 36, last year to just compare him to pat he hit for alot better avg. especially against lefties, had less strike outs, had alot more rbi’s which is what we need when people are walking howard and utley, had more runs on a terrible team, had less homeruns but also played in a pitchers park and clearly we all know how the Bank can be, and finally his defense over the past couple years has been better than pats and he come in most games raul won’t have too. This means that if a game becomes tied like it did alot of times after pat was taken out the phillies no longer have to suffer with their lineup because they took one of their better hitters out. They may have given him a little bit too much money but this is a upgrade to pat making the team a better one than last year and i feel they did pretty well last year.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
All the people that are against this move don’t understand that our team is better today than we were yesterday.. and they are the same people that would have complained no matter who we did or didn’t sign. They are complainers.
Wolfgang Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
He only hits lefties better than righties if you look at last year though, SJ. His career splits tell a different story. So maybe Ibanez made an adjustment last year and if so that’s great. But I’m not entirely convinced on only one season of data in the face of a career’s worth.
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
This is a good move, the rosters not set so expect a starting pitcher, another reliever, and right handed bat, a cheap one, with some pop to balance the lineup as a 4th outfielder, and expect them to move jenkins..hes the odd man out..
Jason B Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I will not be opposed this signing if the Phillies spend the 16 mil they’re saving from Burrell on something useful. Like a starting pitcher.
luis phillies phan Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
i like the trade but am scared the mets might react to this and sign manny,i would of loved manny but we aint getting him.
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Don M., I agree that getting Ibanez was better than doing nothing, but I’d rather have Burrell than Ibanez. Does that make me a complainer? perhaps.
Stuart Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHYYYYY i think this is a bad bad bad bad bad move. Pat is way better and helped us win the world series. Look at all the clutch hits pat had in the playoffs. Ibanez will not do the same. We are world champions why arnt we upgrading, we shouldnt be downgrading.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
None of the Free Agent outfielders, other than Ramirez would have been “hands down” better than Burrell. But Pat wanted more money or more years than the Phillies wanted to pay him. I’m glad they didn’t get Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreu again..

This is a good move that come relatively cheap, and gives your OF prospects two years more to develop before you need to make a big decision on them..

Also, I think that Stairs is going to be the one to move, Jenkins makes too much money for other teams to want to take on, and he’s more versatile than Stairs, so you wouldn’t want to just eat Jenkins contract and give him away for nothing.
Phil Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
I’d prefer Pat the Bat, but I like this move. Ibanez should eat NL pitching alive too, and the only great pitcher we have to see on a regular basis in our division is Santana, so those are games we’re going to have to worry about.
Greg Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
I like the signing, I think Pat will end up in Tampa or San Fran. I think the consistency will pay off for the Phils. As for Lowe I think he could end up with the Phils. Burnette will end with the Yankees which will eliminate the one contending team for Lowe. I would hope they could get Moyer back as well. Chan Ho Park looks like a plus out of the pen. and alls left to do now would be trade Eaton for what ever you can get for him.
RichieAllen Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Ok, so I looked Ibanez up ..and I think… its not a bad deal,he is cheaper.
He has a higher average than Burrell,knocks in more runs on average,

But he strikes out just as much….doesnt hit as many homers(though that could change in CBP).He is older but stays in great shape.

If he hits lefties as good as last year,I would say this is better than the platoon proposal we were almost stuck with.

Lets move on to the pitching….thats what I’m waiting for.This deal isnt great but we didnt hurt ourselves either.
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
i forgot about stairs, i thought he was already gone…yeah hes gone…replaced by a righty bench bat i guess..
Matt Kwasiborski Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Grumpy Miner- why do you have to bring race into this? What does it matter if he is Hispanic and our GM is hispanic? I mean, you never called out Gillick for trading for Lidge just because Lidge was white. Or sign Greg Dobbs? Leave it alone.

We all know Burrell is/was gone. Get over it. Ibanez is older but he is much cheaper then Burrell would be. Seriously, the Phils asked Burrell to take a pay cut and he didn’t. I don’t blame Burrell for not taking a pay cut but he WAS our first option. Don’t you guys remember that the Phils sat down with Burrell’s agent during the WS before FA?

Nothing wrong with Ibanez at all considering the DeRosa option is dead.
Scott Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Feliz & Carrasco for Atkins and then you can bat Ibanez sixth. DO IT NOW RUBIE!
chris d Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I am a Phillies (moved from area 20 years ago) fan although I have lived in Seattle for many years and I have seen Raul’s play and character. On the surface he does the right things. Although Ibanez was a good hitter and a player of “character”, he was also a selfish player. He played hurt in 2007 where it hurt the team. He did not want to relinguish his position as someone like Adam Jones, a rookie, may have claimed it. I would bet anything he only wanted to go to a NL team so he would not have to DH. This really hurts his team.

He is rated one of the worst defensive outfielders in baseball and he does not care. He would not have resigned with Seattle because the new GM Jack Zduriencik would never have put him back in LF. Mr Z knows how important defense is. Ibanez’s poor defense negates his
offensive abilities.

Our previous GM’s, Gillick and Bavasi, were horrible at collecting defensive players and not realizing the tremendous value of defense and as a result the M’s were last in defense and as most know had a horrible year.

So I say good bye Raul and I am sorry for your bad luck Philly. At least you got a WS championship last year.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Rockies have Atkins on the table because they have a 3b… why would they want Feliz?

We currently have above average players at 3b and LF… some of us think they are “very good” or some think that Feliz “sucks” and Ibanez is “too old” etc.. but the Phillies think they have good enough players and I dont think Atkins is even a possibility at this point
MA Phanatic Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I would have liked this deal a lot more at 2 years, $20 Million, but oh well. I love Ibanez’s consistency. He’s an RBI machine, and hitting behind jrols, shane/werth, howard, and utley will only drive up his RBI opportunities.
TheDipsy Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Hey, put it this way: Do you trust Pat Gillick?
Memphis Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
The argument that Burrell is a better offensive player is that he hits more HRs and walks more. So his SLG and OBP and OPS are all higher. But Ibanez is a more consistent hitter, strikes out less, and has a significantly better average. Put him in CBP, maybe his power numbers get a boost. There is no argument that Pat is “way better.” I think a factor here, at least with me, is that Burrell’s August (.181) and September (.205) were absolutely dreadful. That’s not just a slump. That’s a killer in a contract year. Did that seal Pat’s fate? I don’t know. Ibanez hit .396 in August, .233 in September. As far as the older player thing, Ibanez is not showing any signs of decline, but Pat is (massive slumps, nagging injuries). If playing hurt is selfish, then I guess Chase Utley is selfish too. Ridiculous. If you produce, you play. And this guy produced. He’s not my favorite signing, but this is a good player. A lot more teams want him versus Burrell. I’d love to see Burrell try to duplicate Ibanez’s numbers at Safeco.

Also, this myth of that Burrell’s a Mets killer. He killed Armando Benitez. Last year against the Mets — .197. Last three years against the Mets — .226.

I like Patty, I jumped through my ceiling when he doubled off the wall in Game 5, but it’s a fitting farewell, and I don’t think I could take 2-3 more years of him. He had a good run and I wish him well.
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I wouldn’t replace Stairs. I believe he is set to make only 1M in 2009. Give away this home run threat to save 1M? Not worth it.

I’d be more willing to move Jenkins, but Don makes a good point: Jenkins makes too much money and other teams may not be willing to pay that. Maybe if he gets a decent amount of games and starts hitting, we could trade him mid-season. Or perhaps the GM has something in the works already.

Overall, I think Ibañez is a slight upgrade for our 2009 lineup. I’m OK with this move.

Now… back to pitching!!
Dan Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Well, chris d, Gillick was a big part of that championship we just won, so perhaps your over-rating defense a little bit.

What remains to be seen is how much Burrell signs for. If he ends up getting a contract similar to what we gave Ibanez, then this deal doesn’t look so good. If he gets $14-15 mil per year, this deal looks pretty good.

Worried about the over-abundance of lefties though. Does this move possibly signal that the Phils are looking to move Howard, either this year or next?
Ben Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I’d rather of kept Burrell. Ibanez has a lot to prove now because he will actually be counted on to contribute to a winning team. Not get numbers on a lousy team. We’ll see. I’d rather of kept Burrell. He really started to show his true potential the last 2 years and his eye of the strike zone is pretty good as based by his OBP. I think Amaro has no clue what he’s doing.
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
feliz & carrasco for atkins would be universally ridiculed and laughted at as a terrible trade. carrasco is ABSOLUTELY untouchable under basically any circumstances..dont you get it? tahts a FREE third starter at worst…automcatically..no big money deal, no trade, just patience. just wait until later in teh year or next year and hell be there. in terms of starting pitching, hes the first to get called up.
Buck Weaver Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Perhaps this will haunt Phillies even more when Burrell plays LF in Queens
Dannie Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
for those thinking Ibanez is a worse hitter, check out the head to head comparison here…

http://www.reclinergm.com/raul-ibanez-on-board-what-it-means-to-the-phillies/
Malcolm Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
If you haven’t seen Ibanez play, it’s unfair to judge him or determine how good he is just by looking at his stats. He has a mature bat. He’s going to put more people on base. Ibanez WAS the Seattle Mariners most effective offensive talent. Everyone thought Seattle was going to have such a strong year last winter, and they ended up with 100+ loss season. He was practically all they had going. The Phillies need more contact at the plate.

Victorino (S) Utley (L) Rollins (S) Howard (L) Ibanez (L) Werth (R) Feliz (R) Ruiz (R)

vs.

Rollins (S) Victorino (S) Utley (L) Howard (L) Werth (R) Ibanez (L) Feliz (R) Ruiz (R)
Ryan Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
we need a right handed bat. i would have traded the farm to get holliday, but apparently that wasn’t meant to be.

we are way to left handed now. i don’t care how well he hits lefties. I don’t want him to be the 5 hole hitter. we need to find a legit 5 hole guy who is right handed to protect howard.

we also don’t have a single guy in the lineup who hits for average. well, utley hits for average, besides last year. but we need a guy who will consistenly hit .320
metsblow4show Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Hey Griffin, I hate to see Pat go too but Ibanez is a nice addition. You were throwing stats out there that favored Burrell but the truth of the matter was you were only giving partial facts. You stated that Pat against LH batted .276 to Ibanez’s .268 (.305 last year) but they only face LH pitching 35% of the time, so I checked out how they did against RH pitching and found that Pat has batted .251 compared to Ibanez’s .293. Thats a huge diference. I then checked how they fared lifetime with runners in scoring position. Pat with RISP .263 compared to Ibanez’s .305. Another huge diference in Ibanez’s favor. In Ibanez’s career he has only struckout over 100 times twice, where Pat on the other hand has struckout over 100 times all nine years he has been in the league. Granted Pat has a higher OBP but I think you are going to find that Ibanez is going to drive in more runs just for the fact that he puts the ball in play alot more. I’m going to miss Pat, he was one of my favorite players especially against the Muts but Ibanez is a lifetime .351 hitter against them, so hopefully he picks up where Pat left off.
Buck Weaver Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Victorino (S) Utley (L) Rollins (S) Howard (L) Werth (R) Ibanez (L) Feliz (R) Ruiz (R)

since howard hurts you most against Lefties I’d think you want him surrounded by RH to make opposing mgr a little more hesitant to burn possibly 2 pitchers.

I’ll bet Charlies goes with Utley/Howard/Ibanez. He kept utley and howard together despite constant criticsm. so what’s a third lefty gonna matter.

If rollins would bat third, I hope its not the swing for the fences rollins we see a little too often
psujoe Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Griffin, were can I take a look at the career spits over the last 5 years? Last year Ibanez batted over .300 against lefties. Was it an outlier or has he improved against lefties with age? Neither Pat or Ibanez have great power against lefties so I still say it’s wash. No way I spend an extra 16 million on Pat. no way.
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
psujoe, you can check out baseball-reference. It’s a great site.
metsblow4show Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
psujoe, baseball-resource.com is a great site for stats and splits.
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
metsblow4show, I don’t disagree that Ibanez is a solid addition, I just thought that adding another lefty bat wasn’t the best fit for the team. This is by no means a terrible signing, I just don’t think it’s a great fit and I hope that this doesn’t prohibit a Derek Lowe signing. But you’re right, I was listing the stats vs. LHP b/c I was curious how he compared to Burrell in that category.
metsblow4show Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
sorry, baseball-reference.com
psujoe Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
I just looked up Ibanez against lefties and he had 3 good years in the last 5, 2 really bad years. Pat is much better against lefties. I stand corrected. Hopefully Ibanez can build on last years success.
metsblow4show Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Supposedly Pat was looking for 12M a year so getting Ibanez for 10M a year should benefit the Phils if they are serious about bringing in Lowe, I would think.
Griffin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
well, if that’s the case, then I agree with the Phils. Lowe would be my #1 priority. I’d rather have Lowe and Ibanez than Moyer and Burrell.
NateB Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
dudes stop whining! this guy is awesome, we save money, better in the field, and he hits lefty pitching… what’s not to like?
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
no way Pat was “looking” for $12 M when he made $14 M last year.. and reports were that if the Phillies offered him arbitration, he would have accepted and probably been awarded somewhere in the area of $16-17M per season

Saving $6 M this year by not offering him that year of arbitration is good because Werth will make a lot more than $1.4, Victorino only made $400,000 last year, Hamels made like $20.00
metsblow4show Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
I might be asking alot of the Phils but I want Lowe and Moyer.
metsblow4show Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Hey Don, see if Pat gets more then 12M a year from anyone.
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
i might be asking a lot but i want pujols and santana and babe ruth
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
its a solid move, hell be steady and consistent. not flashy. thats fine, im ok with this move..now go get more ptiching….and no not overpaying for derek lowe. get a me a solid starter preferably via trade. or get a stable affordable free agent starting pitcher.
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
geoff what pitcher do you mean
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
i like moyer or garland…both get you round 200innings
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
theres a few of them, but theyre back end starters…id prefer to trade for a 3rd starter…but thats not easy to do at all…

4 years 65-70 mm for lowe is INSANE….thats way too much money…id offer him 3 years 36 mm…tops….
NJ Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
One things being overlooked, Ibanez is a character guy and there aren’t many of them on the market who aren’t the ones just concerned with getting on a roster. Ibanez has the ability to bring a level of profesionalism like Moyer to make his teammates better and that’s his main appeal. Not even Lowe is a ‘character’ guy and the way to sustain success is getting the guys in that clubhouse to hate the idea of not winning now so much they dedicate themselves to what it takes to keep winning. Ibanez is a good start to that.
christopher Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
raul ibanez is NOT better in the field than pat burrell. he has a worse arm and a worse glove. he is faster, that’s it, period. that doesn’t make him better defensively. you guys may not realize it yet, but this guy is a BUTCHER in the field.

so we get older, worse defensively, and worse offensively by losing the balance of burrell’s right handed bat. also lose a great influence in the clubhouse. you better be using that other 16 million brilliantly amaro. because you’re off to a terrible start.
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
3/36 wont get lowe…what pitchers would you go after in trades
Dave Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
For 16 mil a year, I’ll take Pat over Ibanez any day of the week. Hell, I’ll take a nutless monkey over Ibanez just as so he can field the ball without a week’s notice.

The Amaro tenure as GM has FAIL written all over it so far.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
When they offerred Burrell 2 years and $11 M each… his agent laughed at them, and told them he was looking for a 4-5 year deal…
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
you guys are crazy…finding a way to bitch about a guy who hits 290 25 hrs and 100rbis pretty consistently…just dont get it…fielding in leftfield will be just fine
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
thats the tough thing….i need to scour the rotations of mlb and then the names that have been offered as trades..

NO to jake peavy, way too overpriced with fake stats in san diego…over 4 ERA on the road….fraud…3rd starter, but would cost all our best prospects…NO
Keystone Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Does anyone think that the righty power hitting lou marson is what the phils are hoping develops into the #5 behind utley and howard?
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I don’t understand how the fact that his hits from the Left side of the plate makes him a worse hitter than Burrell…..eventhough he has more hits, a higher average, and more RBIs on a regular basis.

If you can hit, you can hit.. doesn’t matter which side of the plate you stand on
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Dave: “For 16 mil a year, I’ll take Pat over Ibanez any day of the week. Hell, I’ll take a nutless monkey over Ibanez just as so he can field the ball without a week’s notice.

The Amaro tenure as GM has FAIL written all over it so far.”

that is a retarded statement…you have a month worth of info on him and you have already judged him…how remarkably ignorant….wait until the season starte, if their roster still has holes in it then its ok to rip him a bit…
NJ Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
to any haters watch the minute breakdown of the deal on the espn mlb page… Might make you feel at ease.
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
If the Yankees get Burnett, we will have a very legit shot at Lowe. 4 years? Do it. We will need a No.2 when Myers leaves anyway.

Our best players are in their primes… we need to keep aiming at the World Series.
Justin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Moyer close to resigning…Jon Heyman is reporting the Phils worked into the night Thursday night working on a deal that could be finalized soon. The groundwork is a 2 yr $15 million.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Tim Kurkjan on Pat Burrell… “the Rays need an OF, the Giants need an OF, but I don’t think he’s going to get anything close to 3 years and $30 Million”

wow
JimC Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Derek lowe would look at 3 years 36 mil as an insult. Seems like a contract the marlins would offer him. Burnetts getting 5 years 80 Lowes going to want around the same
Wilson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
looks like their getting closer with Moyer

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/31961

Does this mean no Lowe???????

I don’t hate the Ibanez deal as much as most people. He’s solid at the plate. His defense really isn’t that much more of a liability as Burrel’s. As much as I am going to miss Pat the Bat, spend the little bit of savings elsewhere. The three lefties in the middle of the lineup doesn’t really bother me either. Howard and Chase will get lefties late in the game regardless of who you bat around them…we’ve seen it time and again, even when pat or werth were hitting between or behind them. As much as protection of a righty would be nice…Howard and Chase both have to bear down against lefties a little bit better. No right handed batter will help them hit lefties better. Not even Manny. And if you think that any manager would keep a righty in to face Howard with the game on the line just because there’s a right handed hitter behind him, you’re delusional. Right handed bull pen arms are a dime a dozen. Now if Ibanez comes in and stinks up the Bank at the dish and in the field…then I’ll criticize the signing. But for right now after we all pretty much knew Burrel was gone…I think Amaro did the best he could with the market. Thank you and good night
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
its great to know that some of you know more than our front office and analysts that work for major sports outlets in thinking that burrel is better and a better fit for this team than ibanez…burrel is a jackass for listening to his agent and turning down a 2/22 the phils offered him…great move by our organization not offering him arb since he would have been way overpaid…
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Don: I agree. Burrell may get a 2/22M if he’s lucky. MAYBE 3/27M if he insists on the 3 years.

He should’ve given more thought to the Phillies’ offer…
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
if he thinks of that as an insult…THEN YOU DONT SIGN HIM AND MOVE ON..thats an absurd contract to give a 36 year old man…

3 years 36 is fine…3/30 for ibanez is fine…
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
nicely put wilson…this is a great signing if he puts up the numbers he did last year (which he did with absolutely no protection or tablesetters in front of him) in 09…then he will be much more productive than burrel has been since the season that got him the big contract…no reason to think raul wont be able to with all the chances he will have with risp
christopher Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
i’m not doubting that ibanez can hit. the guy is a good bat, and a better all around bat than burrell. but the phillies are glaringly weak against left handed pitching now. and while ibanez is a character guy, burrell was already a team leader on a championship team. he is also older and worse defensively than burrell. for a slightly higher price amaro could have stuck with WHAT WORKED TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. instead he’s trying to one up burrell and basically throw it in his face, this move to me is the equivalent of amaro saying “look at what we got for less than what you were asking, let’s see what YOU can get on the open market.” totally classless way to treat a guy who was an integral part of turning this team into what it was last season.
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
We should offer 4/60M to Lowe once Burnett *hopefully* signs with the Yankees. That deal would be competitive and is somewhat overpaying… but pitching is our priority not only for 2009 but for 2010 too (once Myers leaves).
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
are you serious…HE IS A BETTER HITTER THAN BURRELL…thats why he got paid more than burrell is going to…lifetime .290 hitter to burrells .250ish…get over it…great move
Tyler Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
worst move ever… apparently his speed is close to burrell’s and he doesn’t have a great arm… burrell’s was golden… plus… another lefty bat killed us… gillick should have looked ahead to this yr and signed aramis ramirez for third base so we wouldnt be in this dilemma now… yea ik feliz is a righty… but ramirez could have broken up howard and utley & we could throw in another lefty… im still completely for milton bradley and pissed off at amaro for this retarded move
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
better batting avg = better hitter…ibanez is a better hitter…burrell is a betetr POWER hitter…ibanez is a contact hitter whos meant to rack up rbis…
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
signeed aramis ramirez? when? he hasnt been a free agent in years….
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Not only is it a good move.. but its in no way a slap in the face to Burrell… he could have come back at a hometeam discount.. but wanted to go get paid. And he’ll still get millions, lets not feel bad for the guy. he had a nice career here, and his hit turned out to be the winning run for the world series!
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
What is hilarious is all the haters on here complaining about signing Ibanez when he’s almost exactly what we were all asking for at the trading deadline last year – a high-average hitter who puts a ton of balls in play and hits very well with RISP. I could find countless threads from June and July lamenting that the Phils were toast because we couldn’t situationally hit at all. Check out Ibanez’s splits with RISP.

Remember how we almost f-ed up great pitching in the WS by stranding 21/22 runners in RISP during the first three games? I like Ibanez in our lineup for that reason alone.
Geoff Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
thahts right pete…ibanez is a contact rbi guy, which is EXACTLY what this lineup needs!!!!!!!!!! and they think its a bad move..hahahaha
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
tyler do you have a brain…burrell doesnt have a strong arm and isnt as good a hitter…if hes so good why is he teamless
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
all last year people were bitching that we dont have a .300 hitter that knocks in 100 RBIs instead of all these power guys that strike out too much.

Now we get one… for only $10 Million a season.. and people are bitching about the move. I give up
christopher Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
i don’t understand this talk that burrell will be hard pressed to get 3 years because some schmuck on espn said so. he is younger than ibanez. he has shown very good consistency over his career as a power hitter, and shows no signs of slowing down. it all comes down to the demand for a LF out there, but i’d be surprised if pat doesn’t get as good of a deal as ibanez if he’s still looking for those type of years.
metsblow4show Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Keystone Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Does anyone think that the righty power hitting lou marson is what the phils are hoping develops into the #5 behind utley and howard?

Keystone, Marson will be catching for the Iron Pigs this year. He is NOT a power hitter. Marson hit .314 but only had 23 extra base hits last year at Reading.
Johnson Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
christopher…he is a one dimensional player and his replacement is an all around good hitter
Tyler Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
johnson… im not saying i want burrell back… love burrell and what he did for the team… but i dont want him back… i do however like him more than ibanez… to me… ibanez is an older, slower greg dobbs… we should just put greg dobbs in left field and use the saved money on lowe… & was aramis ramirez not a free agent last yr… or am i getting confused & he just signed a contract extension… ill look it up and post it
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I know if you say the phillies are better today than yesterday that is true. Ibanez is better than Jenkins. But if you have been listening to the reports from espn baseball, Alot of the corner outfielders have overvalue the market. To wait and see what develops to me would have been smarter> I think pat would have taken two years 20 million now. Seeing the market isn’t going crazy for the free agent outfielder outthere. Pat as bad a fielder as he is would be better protection for Howard, Ibabez only had one year where he hit good against lefthanders. And ibanez doesn’t throw or field better than pat. To me the key to this deal is if they can get atkins or if felix rebounds and hits 280 with power. then I really don’t mind becasue if felix hits we have someone to follow howard or if we can pry atkins loose it makes the bottom of the order better . but still need a number 2 starter..
Tyler Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
aramis ramirez was a free agent 2 yrs ago… not last yr… i still think gillick should have made a play for him
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Great minds think alike Geoff and Don M….hahaha. The Ibanez bandwagon will fill up quickly after a few doubles with 2 outs and 2 men on.

Think about it this way – the guy had 113 RBI last year playing in Safeco for a 100-loss team. He will knock PLENTY of guys in at CBP hitting behind Rollins, Utley, Vic, and Howard
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Tyler Ramirez signed for closed to twenty million if I am not mistaken. and he sign quickly. The phillies wouldn’t have been in the ball park with that number.
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
To wait would not have been a good idea mikemike – lots of teams were interested in Ibanez and the Phillies aren’t going to win a bidding war (nor would it make sense to go much higher than the 3/30 they gave him). He fits with our lineup, he wanted to come here, and the price was right. Why roll the dice that the price will come down when it’s at least as likely to go up, sticking us with some kind of Jenkins/Stairs/mystery RH platoon?
Tyler Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
he signed for 15 per… 5/75 which is definitely reasonable for a great hitter that can pry apart two monster leftys
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
I agree with you guys. Ibanez’s offensive power has been underrated for a while now… 100+rbis and 20+ HRs and .290avg… pretty damn good, I don’t care if he bats with his leg.

Defensively, I expect a “Pat Burell.”
RichieAllen Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Ibanez will be fine….Lets give him a chance…Dont forget how many times Burrell struck out on those low outside sliders in the freakin same spot every time with risp…
Hell with our lineup ,Ibanez should get 150 RbI ..
I liked Burrell ,But he had his chance to stay and didnt..so..lets move on
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
I can only go by what I read not seeing seattle a lot like you must to come on here and say how great a move it was . So go to espn mlb home page. Then click on Neyer who talks about how the phillies will regret this move by july and then read how the seattle people feel about this lumbering outfielder. Now maybe you don’t believe neyer but seattle isn’t too hearbroken in losing this guy. just thought people should read this to know what we are getting. can’t believe ramirez only got 15 from cubs.
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Hey richie this guy struck out over 110 times. he struck out 1 out of 6.3 at bats burrell 1 out of 5.6. not a lot of difference to call him a great contract hitter.
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Im pretty sure that when Ramirez was traded to the Cubs, they signed him to an extension before he ever hit the open market.. As always, I could be wrong..
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Some Seattle fans I’ve seen are plenty sad to see Ibanez go. The big knock on him is that he is a defensive butcher, which appears to be true (go here: http://www.lookoutlanding.com/ and scroll down to the part of the left sidebar that says “Ibanez takes pride in his defense” – some of it is really ugly).

That said, by any defensive metric (+/-, UZR, etc.), he is still a better defender than Burrell. Their offensive production will at least be a wash, and Ibanez may well outperform Burrell. Given that he came $6MM cheaper than what we’d have paid Pat in arbitration, it looks like a good move to me. Who out there on the market (trade or FA) was a better alternative than Ibanez at the price we’re paying? I don’t see anyone.
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
I can’t believe the stuff that is posted on seattle new on how bad this guy fields. Did anyone see a lot of him. They said if you think beltre is bad wait until you see this guy. This guy must be a butcher in the field. Can you imagine the booing he will get from the fans. They will be chanting bring back pat and that would be nuts. I really wish that I saw some of the mariners game to see this guy. the biggest suprise is how much repect they have for our teams fielding in seattle. And they are suprise our scouts wanted us to get this guy .
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Pete the market hasn’t been set yet to know if this was a good deal. I still believe a lot of the outfielders out there won’t get the big deals. we’ll see. but if this guy is that bad a fielder he will be toasted by the fans.
OZ Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Godspeed Pat. You’ll be missed.
OZ Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Amaro better get Lowe with this extra money. Otherwise, this is an embarrasingly poor first Winter Meetings for our new gm, especially considering we are athe freakin’ World Series champs!
Chris.I Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
This was a great move. I will forver miss Pat the Bat, and I too, will be cheering him whenever (if ever) he comes back to play at citizens bank park…But let’s face it! He is an upgrade over Pat, and we should appreciate this.
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Pete he is ranked one position higher than pat in the field. come on that means he let a ball or two less fall in then pat but pat has a better arm than this guy that means someone. how many assist did he get compared to pat, and how many guys didn’t run on pat that would on this guy. defense was a big part of this team succes.
mick Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Ibanez is saving the Phils 7-8 million a year over what Pat wanted –he may take less at some point, but the Phils could not wait. It is a toss-up.They still need right handed pop and with the addition of Paulino , look for the Phils to move a catcher to Boston -assuming the Sox land Tex–I see the possibility of Mike Lowell in Philly –with Boston picking up a chunk of his salary
Don M Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Pat Burrell gets outfield assiste because people DO run on him.. how bad did his arm look during that Dodgers series.. players were running through STOP signs from their 3rd base coach (what’s his name..) because they knew they could score on Burrell
Greg V. Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I’ll miss Pat the Bat. But if he must go, then I suppose Ibanez is a good place to look. He’s put up some fine numbers over the years. I’m not angry about this deal like some are. It had to happen. The Phils are notorious cheap skates. They give out lowball offers after selling out the stadium a bunch while the Nationals offer Texeira some ridiculous contract and they can’t fill seats to save their lives. I think Ibanez will produce for this club.
Justin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
AJ Burnett signs with the Yankees for 5 years for 82.5 mill
Malcolm Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
mlbtraderumors.com is reporting that A.J. Burnett agreed to the Yankees deal. It was also reported that the Phillies made a serious effort to sign Jamie Moyer last night. This means we will see where Lowe is going very soon.
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Pat has a good arm I don’t remember a lot of guys running on him. If you want to take one or two times that is really petty. overall that was the one thing in the field he could do. This guy is a butcher according to what I have read. It is hard to make a argument for or against him because how many times did we see this guy play. And I still think and as I said before I will say that I was wrong if pat gets a big deal like 3 years 36-40 don’t think it will happen. I just wish they would have tried to get younger and more athletics in left field.maybe explored the trade market more. and really would have settled pitching before left field.
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
mike mike – I agree the difference is marginal, but Ibanez’ defensive peripherals ARE better, so to attack this signing on the basis of defense is silly. It will also be easier for Ibanez to field in CBP rather than cavernous Safeco Field. As for the market, you may be right and other OFs come in for less, but the point isn’t that the Phils will have gotten a good deal in hindsight – it’s that they needed an OF who could produce runs and they signed one they like for a reasonable price AT THE TIME. The problem is they couldn’t afford to wait and risk being left with nothing but crappy platoon options. So, having to act and set the market (to a limited extent) on their own, they did well for themselves.
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
looks like the mets are trying to resign perez and go after dunn.
psujoe Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
With our lineup and ball park I think Ibanez could easily hit 25-30 and bat .300. he won’t get the walks Pat gets though. Nice pickup that didn’t break the bank. Pat would not have signed for 3 yrs 30 million. Too bad, I like Pat, but we need the $$$$ for Lowe.

If we can sign Lowe and Moyer do we try and move Myers?
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
I hope you are right but he only hit one year a high average against left hand pitching. I would feel more comfortable with a right handed bat to protect Howard. The jury is still out on werth plus when they walk howard werth is not good against right hand pitching.
Evrybuddy Hits woohoo Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
I can see Ibenez as more productive hitting in the 5 hole that Pat was. He is a much better contact hitter than Pat. Yes, he walks much less but the 5 hole needs to hit the ball rather than take walks. Fielding might be a wash so the late inning defensive replacement may still happen. Overall a good, not great signing.
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Pete one thing defense is a part of this signing. pat was buried for his fielding and lack of speed. watching the series defense won that series plus good pitching ultley play. rollins glove, ruiz victorino. Just can’t see the big upgrade with a older slow outfield with no arm who is lefthanded. take out last year and see what he hit against lefthand pitching. but all I am stating is based on what I have read. never watch this guy play.
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
HE STRUCK OUT 110 TIMES, MY GOD THAT’S NOT A GREAT CONTACT HITTER,with only 63 walks
Malcolm Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
The Mets are definitely looking to resign Perez. Otherwise they’re going to sign Jon Garland or acquire Jason Marquis in a trade. Starting pitching is their concern. Perez is their best option. Phillies-Mets is going to be brutal this season.

If we pick up Lowe, I’d give advantages to both our rotation and bullpen over the Mets.
Chase Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Yes the yankees signed Burnett. Maybe we can get Lowe and Moyer.
(I know its a long shot but still)
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
What’s our reported offer for Lowe? 4/65? I wonder if he takes that now (assuming the Yankees are no longer after him after signing Burnett)…
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Malcolm do you think maine is not as good as myers and blanton is better than peltry, and perez is not as good as happ and santana is not as good as hamels. pretty interesting.
Derek Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
I just saw on MLBTradeRumors.com that the Orioles are trying to trade Daniel Cabrera….I don’t know a whole lot about him…I think he struggles with control and last year was pretty bad as far as K’s….but what do you think about Ruben makin a run at him for the back end of the rotation…he’ll only cost 4 mil a lot less than Lowe and a lot younger….and I heard he has electric stuff
Chris L Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but isnt there something in the CBA that says a team trying to resign a player can’t drop his salary more than a certain percentage (which I think is like 70%)? If that’s the case, then this is the cheapest the team could have signed Burrell for as many people have said he’s a similar player is almost all measurables. In terms of age, is there anyone who thinks Pat played like a 32-year old? Raul plays younger in terms of smarter base running — how many triples did Pat turn into doubles? Or how many times did Pat not score from 2nd on a sinlge?

Is this a massive improvement? no, but does it give them an everyday OF? sure. however, this deal only works if they move some people and get a RH bench player but most of us already expected that (did anyone not expect either jenkins or Stairs to be gone?). Clearly, the team is a work in progress but as long as Ruben uses the money he saves by signing Pat wisely, this is a good move.
TwoTonsOfIrony Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Would all the people who think we could have had Burrell for the same or even less please shut up. You think that if Burrell would have come at the same price or less that he wouldn’t have already been signed? You’re stupid. Of course he would be. He wants over 15M and he’ll get it somewhere. Now the age thing is less of a factor than you think because Ibanez is known for having an incredible work ethic and is absolutely incredible shape, whereas Burrell already runs like one of his knees is just waiting to blow.
Trends:
BA:
Burrell:
‘05–.281
‘06–.258
‘07–.256
‘08–.250

Ibanez:
‘05–.280
‘06–.289
‘07–.291
‘08–.293
He has improved every season and Burrell hasn’t hit over .260 since 2005. Burrell has only had a better VORP than Ibanez in the ‘05 season otherwise Ibanez’s has been higher. I love Burrell, and always have, but this is a great swap for a guy who is cheaper and will most likely produce what the Phillies need better than Burrell over the next two years.
How often this season during our many offensive slumps did people call for an experienced contact hitting bat? I’m sure it’s the same people who are complaining about losing Burrell. This is that experienced contact bat, who also happens to have quite a good amount of power. So don’t complain all season about something then when they get exactly that, complain about it for some other reason.
Malcolm Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
It’s hard to say who is better in baseball. Hamels and Santana will be a pitchers duel for years. If the Phillies acquire Lowe, Lowe and John Maine would be a great matchup. Maine is a great pitcher, but I’d give the Phillies a slight edge there. Blanton and Pelfrey, well, that’s a close call too. Pelfrey has an upside, and Blanton is underrated when he’s pitching well. Perez and Myers are the erratic pitchers. When either one is on, they’re on. If you were to tell me, last season, that you wouldn’t want the Myers of the second-half going up against Perez, I’d say you were an idiot. Yet. . that’s the Myers problem, and it’s also the Perez problem. But, the Mets fall off after the top 4, and we are lucky enough to have Happ/Kendrick/Carrasco for the fifth slot.

As for the bullpen, well, yeah Putz and K-Rod were the moves the Mets needed to make, but we still have the best bullpen in the National League until someone proves me wrong.
The Dipsy Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Hey Pete….where did you hear that bullshit number for Lowe? Quit making stuff up.

The Dipsy
Chairman of the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Derek – his stuff is intriguing, but Cabrera’s WHIP at the MLB level has never been lower than 1.5, and his FIP for the last two years is 5.0+. That’s not that great for a $4MM a year pitcher. The Phils would be better served to get Moyer for $7-8MM and let Happ, Carrasco, and Kendrick compete for the 5 spot.
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
he won’t get 15 million no one would pay him that. right now the rays are looking at a one year deal for him and the angels have a little interest if they don’t sign Texiria, where is he going to ge that kind of money. and how is he a contact hitter if he strikesout over 110 times a year. not that I wanted pat back , but would have done 1-2 years if not get a right handed bat. who can throw and field. this guy had two stolen bases where is his speed.
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Gordon Edes at yahoo sports. I misstated a bit – he didn’t report the terms of the offer, but said Phils were “interested in a four-year contract in the $65MM range”

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ge-loweupdate121008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Dipsy – how is that number BS anyway?
mike mike Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Malcolm lowe is a pipe dream. mostly likely its garland or park or moyer
Derek Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
My money’s on Moyer and Park
Pete Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Lowe is not necessarily a pipe dream. It depends on what ownership’s budget is. In theory, they saved $26MM by not offering arb to Moyer or Burrell ($16MM for Burrell and $10MM for Moyer seem like fair arb numbers to me). They just spent $10MM on Ibanez, leaving $16MM free. If they are willing to allocate that to free agents rather than arb raises (and thus hike payroll significantly), then it fits in with Lowe’s reported asking price.

Of course, if the report about pushing hard to sign Moyer is true, then there is no shot Lowe will be a Phillie next year.
Chris.I Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
After the smoke clears, I think Amaro will end up re-signing Moyer, and wont even attempt to go after Lowe. Personally I would rather have Lowe over Moyer, but I wouldn’t mind having Jamie back…As for the #5 guy goes, it’s going to be fun to see Happ, and Carrasco battle for it. They both seem promising. I think Dobbs could be the one to fill in for Utley at 2B until he comes back…Dobbs does have a little expierience at 2nd, and would save us tons of money, and possibly trade chips.
MA Phanatic Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
AJ to NYC. Looks like the market for Lowe just got a little bit smaller. This helps the Phils
Malcolm Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
I’m surprised to not see a ton of Phillie pride right now. I mean, as a team, we’re out making moves. The business of baseball is not necessarily a gentleman’s activity. To say we should have been better to Pat Burrell, as an organization, only means to me that some people wish we had resigned him. I mean, that’s really the only way to be proper to our 9 year veteran. In no way is this a Brett Farve-Green Bay type of situation. Ruben did the right thing, and there was no way around it. You have to make the move like that when you see your opportunity closing, and when the Angels surfaced with their interest for Ibanez, the Phillies stepped up. The front office wants to continue to make more moves. Signing Ibanez allows them to do just that. I see a lot of people who must spend a lot of time creaming themselves over statistics, not going out to actually watch a game. A lot of people are trashing Ruben and Ibanez. Ruben bleeds Phillie red, and this is his first offseason. Don’t go to ESPN or some site and read too far into what a baseball analyst says. For every writer that trashes this move, there is going to be one who celebrates it. Like I said earlier today, it’s really disrespectful to judge a player like Ibanez without having ever seen him play. So, to those who are guilty of that, where is the true love for your team? To those who do know Ibanez, maybe you think he’s too old and maybe you would prefer the right handed bat, but I doubt the Phillies would have signed him if the already didn’t have about two dozen plans on how to approach a new line up. These are the blog conversations people should be having. People who know Ibanez and approve and people who know Ibanez and don’t approve.
maxhole Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
pete don’t pay him any attention. he’s been stuck up lowe’s ass so he thinks he knows. getting lowe would be great, but after it happens we won’t hear the end of it just because the dope signs his name at the end of each message
Malcolm Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
mike mike.. I think I’d feel just about as comfortable with Moyer coming in this season to tell you the truth. And if we miss out on Lowe, I’d say we still have an advantage in the rotation over the Mets.
Memphis Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Not surprisingly, Keith Law hates the move. And Neyer says it won’t win the Phils anymore games than last year. Neither has shown they like the Phils at all, aside from Utley (our players, how we spend money). I’m pretty sure I hate Keith Law.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=law_keith

If Ibanez is “far worse” than Burrell in the field, that’s a problem, though I find that hard to believe. And I actually think Burrell is more likely to “fall off a cliff offensively” than Ibanez. And I’m glad we didn’t offer Burrell arbitration because with the market like it is, he may very well have accepted. (I’m pretty sure if we got stuck with Burrell at $15-16M, Keith Law would hate that too.) It’s pretty obvious Amaro did not want Burrell back AT ALL. I’m fine with turning the page on Burrell, but we’ll have to wait and see if this Ibanez-for-Burrell swap is better or worse or a wash. Tim Kurkjian practically gushed about Raul on ESPN.
ped Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Yankees got AJ. Think we’ll get Lowe now?
NJ Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Keith Law is a lover of all happenings Mets and nothing Phils, Kurkjians a much more impartial voice.
Mark Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Ibanez is an upgrade from Burrell.

He’s a leftie who’s average against RHP and LHP’s are virtually identical.
Memphis Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Not to be a double downer, but I think Moyer may very well blow up next year. He was absolutely shelled in the playoffs (and LA and Mil are not offensive juggernauts), other than Game 3, and he barely made it through the TB lineup twice. On his best day he’s a 5-6 inning guy, maybe 7. If we get him back, we get him back, but I would expect to use a Plan B at some point (Happ, Carrasco). I hope I’m wrong…….but I remember just praying for one last good start against TB (and he delivered). Now we’re hoping for another 20 good starts, with maybe 10 not so good ones to be expected. His stats are actually pretty amazing — 32 or 33 or 34 starts each of the last 8 years.
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Ok… Yankees got Burnett… now GO GET LOWE… It’s the perfect opportunity. At least make a decent offer… maybe he’s not going just for the money… He has said many times that his No.1 priority is to be in a contending team… we should have an edge over most teams when it comes to that!

Make a good offer, and let’s see.
luis phillies phan Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
mets just traded another one of their reliever this seems like salary dump to me,hope am wrong cuz then that means they looking to sign lowe or manny
Manny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
“The Mets traded Scott Schoeneweis [lefty] to the Diamondbacks for Connor Robertson, a 27-year-old righty.”

The Ibañez deal became a little more valuable… hehe
danny Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Since the Phils were considering Nick Punto for left field platoon a few days ago, this is the move of a lifetime!!!!!!

HECK YEAH AMARO, GET SOME!!!!!!!

KEEP IT UP!!!

IT’S RAUL TIME!
Justin Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
That trade worries me as the Mets got rid of 2 guys the Phils loved to beat up on in Heilman and Schoenweis.
bigbobster Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
First off, tremendous research, folks! The only thing that bothers me about the trade is that Raul’s left-handed. But the stats say he can hit lefties, so maybe it’s just me. And I guess he’ll bat behind Ryan? Also kind of interesting: Raul was born in NY, NY. As for Pat, he was wildly inconsistent in 08, but I’ll miss the threat he posed, and the blasts. There is a sense of fan loyalty in Phils history, dating back to the Whiz Kids during the 50’s. When the Phils finally parted ways with their 1-2 starters, Roberts and Simmons, it came back to bite them in the butt. Check out Robin and Curt’s numbers in ‘64!
J-Man Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Nice pickup he could easily replace Burrell power numbers because we play in a hitter park…Now grow some balls Amaro and go get us Derek Lowe and don’t make some bogus offer like the one we offered to Burrell.
Manny Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Right now, the Phillies are in the best position to get Lowe. We need to act quickly and grab him now that the Yankees are out of the race. There are reports that the Mets can’t afford him right now (they’re looking for a No.4 starter) and that the Braves have no interest in signing him. The more I think about it, the more I like the potential fit between our team and Derek Lowe. Get this done ASAP! Don’t sign Moyer yet…
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:20 am
I am so tired of hearing the talk about burrell getting 16 million. he turn down two year 22 offer. I swear this is the biggest bull shit I ever heard. you all sound like the phillies propaganda dept. spreading a rumor to make today signing sound good. Where is this bullshit coming from he made 14 million last year overpayed and he will learn this year there will be less. Don’t try to justified this signing based on a bad story of 16 million. today we sign a bad leftfielder who only hit one year of over 300 against lefthander pitching. he can’t throw and is 36 he struck out 110 times yet he is a contact hitter. this makes no sense. Just say the truth we took a cheaper player who will cost us a first round draft choice. becasue we paniced and didn’t wait to see what would develop since the corner outfield market is loaded with option.
Kirk Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Goodbye Pat, don’t let the door hit you on the a z z. Finally. Anybody but Pat. Such a rally killer. Jumps back on pitches right down the middle. Ran with a piano on his back. Thank you g o d , it’s over!
Dan S Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:37 am
This is the end of the Burrell era in Philadelphia, but Ibanez is more consistent. Although his power numbers are not as good as Burrell’s, for $16 million less it is a great deal. Keep in mind the Phils have to save up money for Howard, Hamels, possibly Werth and Victorino all in arbitration.
Dan S Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:39 am
The phillies can’t get Moyer and Lowe. I’m sure your tired of hear this, because I know I am, but they cost too much.
jim Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:41 am
the mets are still better than us
jim Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:42 am
phuck the phillies
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:59 am
Tim where are they getting this 16 less theory. Tim so far I have been on a lot of sites, but I know you have a lot of outlets to find information, It seems to me not one of the people who follow baseball like this move, law neyer, stark. all are puzzled why they wanted this guy, the only positive person who wanted this guy was the angels manager. but he could dh him we can/t have you found anyone in the media or scouts who likes the move.
Jason B Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:09 am
I will admit I was opposed to this trade, but after digesting the nmbers a little, I like the trade the more I think about it. First of all, Ibanez hit .305 off of lefties last season. Burrell, who should hit lefties, only batted .279. Ibanez has 24 more r.b.i.’s, hit 43 points higher in average, hit 10 more doubles, had 30 more total bases, and scored 11 more runs. Now, Burrell had more walks and a better OBP.However, the most telling stat is this, Ibanez has 26 less K’s than burrell and in a K heavy line up, any time you can reduce your K’s, good things are bound to happen. Speed wise, the two are a push as they are defensively. But over all, for Reuben’s first aqusition, I have to say, we got a little better. Not too shabby.
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Jason he had almost 100 more at bats than burrell . take away last year against lefthanders and what is his numbers. Look I never seen this guy but ever writer so far is wondering what the phillies were doing signing this guy. we need a starter more reliable than meyers or blanton. A number 2 to follow Hamels. stopping runs is important.
Phillies Phan SC Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:26 am
I watched the Mariners last year a little (MLB Extra Innings) because they were the late games and I love baseball. I still think it was a one for one swap that we saved money on. You could argue numbers, but honesty, it just depended on the day. Baseball stats only tell part of the picture. In the second hald Ibanez was much better than Burrell, and you MUST consider the Mariners sucked. Those numbers on a team that lost over 100 is pretty darned good. We shall see.
metsblow4show Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:30 am
I heard a report tonight that the Rays offered Burrell a 3yr/30 M deal, the same as Ibanez. I told you earlier Don, that Pat wasn’t going to get over 12M from anyone and there’s a 10M a year offer. The agents are starting to realize that they over-valued some of their clients, especially the outfielders.
Justin Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Any ideas who the Phils will non-tender? Jonny Gomes and Takashi Saito are non-tendered and seem like interesting players of interest.
Derek Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:10 am
Jonny Gomes was non tendered….I say we sign him….RH OF with pop and intensity….i’m kinda biased though i really like this guy….and he’ll run through walls for his team….. then trade jenkins or stairs (even though i really like stairs) for a back end starter…..and if you trade jenkins, you prolly free up some cash to try to sign another starter like lowe or moyer or sheets if he’s healthy….Sorry everyone i’m tired and my mind’s goin like a mile a minute..go phils!!!!!
Derek Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:12 am
interesting players of interest?????
Derek Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:12 am
sorry justin……i like the way you think though
Derek Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:16 am
Maybe sign Tim Redding???….that saves us a couple of losses a year…..b/c he always shoves against us…..just another late night thought Go PHILS!!!
Hamels, myers, moyer, REDDING, blanton……with happ, carrasco, kendrick as insurance/trade bait…..where do i sign up for world series tickets?
Robbi P Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:17 am
Right now the Phillies need to sign a starter. I want Lowe or Sheets. Resigning Moyer, which apparently is gaining a lil momentum, is going well too but you can’t have too much pitching. Amaro should now focus solely on Lowe. The Mets needed a bullpen, they go it done. We need pitching and we are floundering.

I honestly just want them to sign someone for pitching a la Chan Ho Park.

But I know whats going to happen, you guys are going to get on me for emulating the Mets but I think we need some action now that OF is set starter wise.

Maybe Amaro is smarter than we all think. Sign Raul and then trade Coste and Jenkins, Stairs for a pitcher. That might be a likely scenario!
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:29 am
I heard the rays were offering one year at 8-10.
Geoff Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:34 am
redding is going to colorado…they tried to trade for him during the meeting but waited the nationals out…the nats had to use the bailout money to offer tex that contract..so theyve gotta cut corners elsewhere.

this team got exactly the contact rbi-first hitter they needed in ibanez and youre all mad about it because hes not flashy or hes left handed..ridiculous..this is a good signing..

they still need a starter…im leery about th emoyer thing.,..hes asking for too muich money…

id im going to watch them take a risk..take a risk on a two year deal for ben sheets with a third year option based on appearances/starts.
Geoff Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:35 am
unless lowe drops his price hes not worth all of that money so forget about him..
Derek Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:37 am
Push hard for Sheets
Geoff Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:38 am
non tenders: daniel cabrera (NO, he already sucks…he throws a sinker that doesnt sink, a cutter that doesnt cut, and a slider that doesnt slide)…hell last one start at CBP…britton could compete for a bullpen spot in spring training…willy taveras cant hit or get on base..gomes actually is a good idea, id bring him in cheaply and move back on to pitching..
Geoff Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:39 am
i mean a two year 26mm deal with a 3rd year option of 16mm..why not? i mean, if hes healthy hes WAY better than lowe…if hes healthy…i view moyer as an equal risk because of his age…
Justin Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:05 am
norris hopper is another outfield option i like i think he’s either a switch hitter or a straight righty…plays all 3 outfield positions good, kinda in the mold of a willie harris, speedster type, good for the bench to add speed.
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:08 am
Unfortunely lowe is just getting what the market is paying. And by the time the other teams sign corner outfields this will be ever a worst signing. unless they can bring in a guy like atkins or a healty lowe then it makes more sense but a three year committment to a bad fielding lefthand hitter to replace pat is nuts. one year he hit at 305 against left hander the rest of the time under 250. he has no speed no arm but he is cheaper than the others. so that makes it a good signing. Geoff oh I am sorry mr giles you are nuts. please use you real name bill.
Geoff Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:25 am
dude..garret atkins sucks…look im wanting them to get another starting pitcher…i just happen to know that free agency isnt the way to go…you play the contract game in baseball…the money is guaranteed…if they tank out youre stuck with the money…lowe isnt worth it…even moyer isnt worth it with what he asked for…if youre going to take a risk, take a risk on ben sheets…

when will you understand..all last season we asked for a contact hitter that drives in runs and doesnt strike out too much = raul ibanez…NOT burrell..not bradley or atkins…
Geoff Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:31 am
thats the whole point..free agency is a RIP OFF……raul ibanez is a great signing, BUT even hes too expensive for that age…AND you have to give up a first round pick…

trades, farm ssytem internal development, and plug the gaps in with free agents who are affordable..thats how EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN MLB except the yankees, red sox, cubs, and angels go about doing this. even the mets arent that bad..and every other team in baseball has had more success IN THE MODERN non-steroidal era than these big money teams…

the red sox at least devcelop their own players with a GREAT farm system….
Geoff Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:32 am
norris hopper is a bit TOO scrap heap…you gotta at least have some right handed pop…
Memphis Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:41 am
mike mike — you may be the most consistent opposition to Ibanez. What would have been your preference in LF?

Ibanez isn’t my favorite signing (I would have gone for Holliday or Man Ram, or maybe looked to trade for Hermida), but he’s a good player, very similar to Burrell in a lot of ways. Burrell had a terrible second half last year, abysmal, and I think Ibanez’s risk of decline is actually less than Burrell’s, but that’s debatable. I didn’t want to see Burrell back, but the pickins are slim. I’d like to see this guy play before I pass judgment.

I’m with you in that the priority should be pitching. I want Lowe or Sheets in Philly.
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:44 am
Geoff the red sox spend a ton in player development. they last year alone went 138 % over slot in there signing. over ten million dollars spend. three million alone on there first pick when the slot number was much lower, I believe that it will change and only a handful of teams will be able to be in the playoff year after year.the teams like the pirates kc have no chance, they have to go to a salary cap and get rid of that ass boras. He is the most arrogrant agent in baseball. he cares nothing about the state of the game. the creep. how much is enough.by the 110 strikes is not a contact hitters type numbers.
Geoff Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:48 am
I agree that the phillies could and should sp4end more in teh draft…thats for sure…

i agree though, scott boras is too good of an agent..total greedy piece of trash…

anyways, baseball DEFEINITELY needs a salary cap…the league might have to bottom out again though for that to ever happen…

you like the nhl? the nhl is THE most competitive pro sport now…rarely do you see unwatchable blowouts…very very entertaining and top quality competition. because they made the players give back 25 percent of their salaries and instituted a salary cap..
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:51 am
Memphis when you don’t know a player like ibanez, which I didn’t you try to find out from people who cover the sport in other words research all opinion. I have been reading writer after writer neyer, stark, law, phillips, and some seattle people and only one person likes the guy the angels manager. If we needed a lefthanded leftfielder yes maybe but another outfieldr who can field run or throw and can;t protect howard in the lineup scares me.especially knowing how Werth has trouble against right handed pitchers.
Memphis Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:44 am
More people than just the Angels manager like him. I’ve read Mariner fans that like him, Tim Kurkjian gushed over him on ESPN. The Mets were in on him. Cubs as well, I think. The Mariners said they would have liked him back, even in rebuilding mode. Neyer just said basically he is no better than Burrell. Law said basically the same thing, but in his own cranky ass way. (I don’t think he likes Burrell much either.) Ibanez is not universally disliked, not even close. Yahoo Sports ranked him 16th among the most attractive FAs (all positions); some dude on SI.com ranked him 17th and said “a move to Citizens Bank Park will only improve his numbers.” He was 5th in the AL in RBIs last year, 7th in doubles. He has supporters and detractors, just like Burrell, Dunn, Bradley, Man Ram, Holliday….

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/392004_mari13.html

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/156834.asp

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/390210_mari02.html

I completely agree with you in that we’d IDEALLY get someone right-handed, who can protect Howard, is good in the field, can run, etc. For me, Holliday and Man Ram topped that list, and I’m of the mind to just go for it with the current core. Question is — for you, who are putting in LF? You be the GM. I’m just curious. It’s not easy.
Shimmy Rollins Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 6:17 am
cmon, lets all call a spade a spade–this is a cheap replacement for burrell. Sure, you’ll save around $15mil, and get a little more consistency at the plate, but you lose out on overall power numbers. You can make the case that Ibanez and Burrel are about an equal trade offensively, at a cheaper price–but in my opinion, this deal blows because Burrell is 32 and Ibanez going on 37. Thats a big difference in baseball years.

Plus, we all know Pat will go somewhere else and hit .325 with 40 HR next season and be the free agent signing of the decade, LOL. The guy has the talent to put up a .300 35+ HR season, he just never seemed to be motivated in Philly—even down the stretch this year as his batting average fell from .280 to .250 despite the phils success.

But, from a GM standpoint, I’m not sure what else we could’ve done. I do believe the phils will make a move for another starter–I’m hoping its Lowe, but I doubt they can afford him after this, without trading away some salary. But without this move, you’re looking at Genkins or Bruntlett becoming an everyday player?? And the FA market for outfielders this year is very top heavy–with Manny, Dunn, Abreu, Burrell and Ibanez. After those guys, its a pretty steep dropoff. I was certain we wouldn’t sign Dunn because he’s a lefty, and he probably will get more than Burrell ends up getting. And lets face it, guys whose motivation is a question (ie manny, abreu) never become philly fan favorites or last too long….we really appreciate the gritty blue collar guys more than the hot dogs, dont we? Again, not sayin Ibanez is a good deal, personally I would’ve passed. BUt I understand the rationale and motivation for making the move.

Where does Burrell land? Everyone here seems to think theres no way he still ends up in Philly….I dont think thats 100% etched in stone. Werth and a bench player could be packaged in a deal for a starter, clearing up some room for Burrell. And Ibanez could play right, or Burrell could move. Do I think its likely? No, but I won’t rule it out.

If he goes, the Mets aren’t in the hunt, I dont care what the rumors say. The mets aren’t in the market for offense this offseason, they’re plenty happy with the core of offense they have, and the young outfielders like Daniel Murphy and Nick Evans that they can barely even force onto the field yet. Plus Church, Beltran, I see no way they need a guy like Burrell. They already have their “burrell” in carlos delgado, your .260 hitter with consistent 30-35 HR power. They dont need another one or want one either.

Nobodys talking about it, but I dont see why Burrell couldn’t land in the Bronx? After that? Cubs, Dodgers, then who knows? Plus the guy would be a great DH, so any AL team could take a flyer on him….But again, depending on what other moves the yanks make, I could see him there next season, barring a Manny or Teixeira signing prior.

Now back to Ibanez…it will be interesting to see where Manuel sticks him in the lineup. I dont see any way you take Rollins, Utley or Howard out of the top 4, and there’s no way they’re gonna bat 4 straight lefties/switch hitters at the top of the order. So, unless Rollins moves down to the 2 hole, and Shane leads off, I dont see Ibanez hitting any higher than 6th. Unless Rollins hits 3rd, Utley hits 2nd, and they decide to take their chances with back to back lefties in the 4 and 5 hole. Who knows?? Most likely 6 hole though…which again, begs the question of why spend that kinda money for your 6 hole hitter? Probably coulda signed Lowe for similar money…

ORRRRRR maybe a left handed bat is going somewhere that we don’t know about…hint hint
ActuallyChilled Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Pete: MIlton Bradley, including conflicts (add Utley + Manuel no problem), and … well, maybe you’re right. I’d have to look at the list again. Dunn? Nah. Tex too much. Holliday? If we had played our bait better. Oh well. I think the change could be good, but am surprised at 3 years.
Stone Groove Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 10:33 am
We needed a right handed bat with speed, not an old left handed bat without speed. He’s way more steady than Pat, but Pat protected the big lefties when he was hot. I would rather had Rocco Baldelli or just re-sign Pat. WE NEED D-LOWE!!!
Kevin Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Not sure how anyone can say this is not an offensive upgrade. Remember Ibanez’s numbers were put up in Seattle, a notorious “pitchers” park. While I would have perfered a right handed bat @ 5 I’ll take his numbers. He has also been much more consistent than Pat with less strike outs. I’m happy with it. Is age a factor? Sure, but in Left not a lot is asked and he is still hitting the ball.

I think a good move, get us one more starter and lets get this thing Rolling…
metsblow4show Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 11:29 am
You gotta believe that Amaro has another deal coming for a righthanded hitting outfielder for the bench. Right now the only decent righthanded bat on the bench is Coste and there is no guarantee that he is even gonna be here come April.
The Dipsy Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Hey Shimmy…you genius. Are you actually floating the concept of trading Werth and somebody else for a starter, putting Ibanez in RIGHT and resigning Burrell? Thats a freakin laugher. Shane Victorino can’t play all three outfield positions at once and with Burrell in left and Ibanez in right you would have the worst fielding outfield in Phils history. Maybe we can bring Greg Luzinski back to play center. Query this please…why can’t Ibanez bat 5? Get used to it because thats exactly where’s he is gonna hit. Actually, you might see him batting 3 until Chase gets back. Utley, Howard, and Ibanez can all hit lefties. Howard used to hit them well until his plate discipline totally broke down. I think you’ll see him hit for higher average this year because now he’s got someone behind him that can drive in runs. Perhaps this will lead to Howards abandoning his penchant for trying t hit the 6 run homer everytime up. I think there is a right handed bat coming and I still think its DeRosa.

The Dipsy
Chairman of the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation
Ed Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
I really feel like Burrell was Amaro’s first choice but when the ability to possibly get someone like D.Lowe came about, then he had to sign a cheaper OF in order to have the money for Lowe. I think Lowe will be a Phillie and its because we went with Ibanez and not Burrell. Park is not a sure thing in the rotation. He is going to be given an invite to spring training. He can also act as a long reliver like Condrey. Since its obvious that Madson is now the set up guy and will no longer be used for multi inning situations.
Justin Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
The Phils only non-tendered one player, Scott Mathieson, kind of disappointing since he was considered a top prospect pre-2 tommy john surgeries.
Derek Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
they resigned Mathieson to a minor league deal after they non-tendered him didn’t they?
Derek Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I say push hard for Sheets, bring back wolf, sign Gomes (if he comes fairly cheap) and trade Jenkins for a reliever or at least for salary relief
Bonezy Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I still don’t think it is really all that bad of a thing to have a lefty there. It is not written in stone that you HAVE to have a riught handed batter to face a left handed pitcher. they are all Major League Ball players. A pitch is a pitch. no matter if it comes from the right side of the mound or the left.
reddeath Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
yeah
Ed Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
You are right, a pitch is a pitch no matter what side of the mound, however how you see the pitch makes all the difference in the world. That is why statistically speaking right handed batters hit left handed pitchers better…they see the ball longer when it is released from the pitchers hand. That is not to say a left hander can’t hit a left hander just that the chances are decreased.
Justin Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Derek you’re right, they did re-sign him after they non-tendered Mathieson.
metsblow4show Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
OMG, get your World Series tickets now…….the Phils resigned Bruntlett !
Gabriel Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
the first half of ibanez’s 3 yr deal will be good for us, essentially a wash tho i’m sad to see P the B go… i’m just afraid of the last half of that contract. i agree with a keith law blog i read that said if nothing else, we should’ve at LEAST offered the Bat arbitration. in other words, he would’ve not accepted and we’d have gotten some picks from the team he goes to… so worst case scenario if we offered p the b arb, he would’ve accepted it at around 16-17 mil and we would keep him for another year… something i’m totally okay with. oh well, moving on from here… i just hope this isn’t a sign that ruby amaro jr is the next yes man for our money-hoarding ownership…
Ed Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I am not sure if this is a sign that Amaro is another yes man for the owners but everyone knew from the very begining of the Gillick era that Amaro was being groomed to be the next yes man. Sign or not, a yes man is exactly what Amaro is.
Gabriel Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
dammit ed, why’d you have to go and say that. i was TRYING to like ruby! oh well, we got one championship with yes men… why not again right? i still think we should grab tim redding (non tendered free agent) just so he cant destroy us like he always does… maybe saito (also nontendered from the dodgers) would be a nice bullpen edition… should also trade one or two of the extra lefthanded outfielders for some righty bench depth.
Ed Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Just being honest. I do think Redding would be a good pick up. We did lose Seanez afterall. If they really think Koplove is the replacement for him than that confuses me. We all know the bullpen will not be as good as last year, not because they aren’t good but because they had career years. It’s only natural that they have a bit of a “down” year. We need guys like Redding and Saito to sure things up.
Bruce Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Geoff says~”The nhl is THE most competitive pro sport now…rarely do you see unwatchable blowouts…very very entertaining and top quality competition”. Huh? Is that the sport where those hockey fans look forward to a fisticuffs brawl as part of their entertainment? Where every team has a chance to make the playoffs regardless of their W/L record?
NJ Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
The Phillies would be a tough sell to Saito who’ll probably be Tiger or M’s bound or he’ll have a secure set-up role with a team like the Yankees. Koplove was signed to a minor league deal and only needing a guy for middle relief Amaro’s probably going to see how things fall when the salary demands drop.

Redding would be a decent punt for a shot on the staff but sounds like his healths up the creek. We yet might get lucky with Lowe but don’t get your hopes up.
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
We went after a cheaper outfielder so to speak, and supposely saved money to get pitching and what are the names saito, park, koplove, redding, cabera. f.u.b you would want to go after that shit to try to get back to the world series .Hey yes man Amaro do you get a bonus if you don’t spend any of the fifty million extra dollars the series brought in. good job ed wade jr.
TwoTonsOfIrony Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
The problem with offering Burrell arbitration is that the figures for how much that arbitration would get Burrell would not come until the middle of January, and if it went into arbitration hearings like with Howard, then it doesn’t get settled until well into February. What that does is it means that you don’t know exactly how much you are going to have to pay Burrell possibly until mid-February, which makes it very hard to make legitimate offers to players like Lowe, Sheets, and so on. So by not offering arbitration they know exactly what their payroll is and they can start to make deals without fear of being screwed later on.
Memphis Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
mike mike — More people than just the Angels manager like Ibanez. I’ve read Mariner fans that like him, Tim Kurkjian gushed over him on ESPN. The Mets were in on him. Cubs as well, I think. The Mariners said they would have liked him back, even in rebuilding mode. Neyer just said basically he is no better than Burrell. Law said basically the same thing, but in his own cranky pants way. (I don’t think he likes Burrell much either.) Ibanez is not universally disliked, not even close. Yahoo Sports ranked him 16th among the most attractive FAs (all positions); some dude on SI.com ranked him 17th and said “a move to Citizens Bank Park will only improve his numbers.” He was 5th in the AL in RBIs last year, 7th in doubles. He has supporters and detractors, just like Burrell, Dunn, Bradley, Man Ram, Holliday….

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/392004_mari13.html

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/156834.asp

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/390210_mari02.html

I completely agree with you in that we’d IDEALLY get someone right-handed, who can protect Howard, is good in the field, can run, etc. For me, Holliday and Man Ram topped that list, and I’m of the mind to just go for it with the current core. Question is — for you, who are putting in LF? You be the GM. I’m just curious. It’s not easy.
Memphis Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Been thinking about the lineup with Ibanez. We may just see Ibanez-Werth bat 5-6 against righties and reverse it against lefties.
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Bull shit if he went to arb you know what he is going for and what you are offering there is always ways to find out and even if you have to guess 15 and it 17 big deal its still a number you can figure to be high end and go from there. and if it;s two or four million. Is that reason a team coming off world series and has a lot of extra cash even with arb, Can’t sign a lowe or burnett or sheets. that is crazy or just being cheap bast$$ I said they are. Fourth largest market remember and second if you realize the other markets ahead of us share. Except boston which has a five state drawn and big tv dollars,
Memphis Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Phils didn’t want Burrell back in any way — isn’t that obvious? I understand the strategy to offer arb for the draft pick, because it wasn’t likely that Burrell would accept, given his expectations. But you never know, he might, and Amaro didn’t want Burrell back at $14-16M even for only one year. Yanks didn’t offer Abreu. D-Backs didn’t offer Dunn. All for the same reason, the risk of having them back at a high number isn’t worth the potential pick. Not sure why we’re sweating a draft pick, this isn’t the NFL. Draft picks cost money, too. Time to move on. Get after Lowe.
KM Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
I completely disagree with you, Tim. Ibanez is a better caliber offensive player than Burrell. Sure he hits less homeruns and walks less, but he drives in more runs, has more hits, scores more runs, strikes out less, and hits for a much higher average. Defensively the players are similar, they both make the routine plays, except that Ibanez has a bit more range.
KM Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Get Lowe, and we win the free agency battle in the NL, after winning the world series.
Tyler Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
everyone is saying how this just prevents a platoon, and frankly, i do agree, BUT, i think dobbs would have been a cheaper everyday player to put out there… to me, ibanez is an older, slower, poorer fielding dobbs with potentially less power and less of a threat… however i will be the first to admit i dont no much bout him… that being said… getting lowe would be perfect for us and i think we become favs in the NL this yr with a rotation of:
hamels, lowe, myers, blanton, and happ
thats a pretty sick rotation, hamels is obviously an ace, lowe is a very good number 2 and a decent number 1 (esp. in the NL), myers is a beast number 3 and a good number 2, blanton is a great 4 and a pretty good 3, and finally, happ- i love what i saw from him last yr and think he’ll be vital for us this yr and an eventual number 3 at least
Manny Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Ibañez is going to the All-Star game next year.
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Memphis the difference is if you follow the draft. The Yankess will go over slot to pry high scholl committed kids from going to college. So will the diamonbacks to a degree. So if they lose a first round choice they make up for it in the following rounds. The phillies if you remember when they signed bell back in 2004 and some other players had lost there first three round choices. When it came to the fourth round they took a kid named moss. a low level college player. They later said we didn’t have our first three choices that is why our system didn;t get anyone one to help. why not take a high ceiling hard to sign kid. Because they are cheap ask tim he will remember. Same reason they let joe saunders go workman , gibson drew, last year coy,cooper all top ten choices. and why when as I explain before they took a cheap sign low level kid named Mach in the fourth round only because he was cheap and he guit in one year. they had to pay for two extra picks they obtain one of the picks was Cardenas, the other D’Arnaud.
mike mike Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Manny be serious will you it bad enough that we have ed wade clone running this team. But to have a remark like that is in poor taste. Fans are trying to make sense of what the hell they are doing in the winter meeting, and free agency.
J-Man Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Anyone hear yet K-Rod said the Mets are gonna win the NL East? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3767033
mets rule Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Totally True Statement. you had you run,bye bye loser town
Keith Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
who cares about K-Rod, he’ll blow games for them next year.
J-Man Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
K-Rod forgot this isn’t that joke of a divison called the AL West.
Jim Pfeiffer Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
“Of course, we’re going to try to win the division. Of course, we’re going to be the front-runner. Of course, we’re going to be the team to beat,” K-Rod said

He may have set the record for saves but he blow 7-9 games and most of the saves came aganist the AL West….
PEASANT Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
here are some encouraging Ibanez Stats

Batting vs. some of our favorite mets…

Johan Santana 12/34 .353 .395 .441 .836
Francisco Rodriguez 7/22 .318 .348 .318 .666

I think this will be an upgrade, Burrell, while a great guy and a decent hitter, will be adequately replaced by ibanez, who will bring a steady bat, also, his .309 average away from Safeco field indicates he will THRIVE here.
PEASANT Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
in other words, this pickup was surely influenced by the fact that he has a great average against the mets “ace”, and also a great BA vs their closer… not too shabby eh? all you people who think you are smarter than RUBEN, and yet you have no idea where his head is at, hilarious, and burrel for 16-17 mil? HAHAHAHA stupid.
mets rule Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Jim pfeiffer the mets blew 29 saves last year. k-rod blew 7-9 that is a gain of 20. Phillies won division by 3 games with no injuires or Lidge blowing a save. follow me so far jim, plus 20 games. phillies lose17 game winner and a 33 hr right hand hitter replace with 23 hr and a park advantage mets. so mets win division by 34 games as of this date. follow me jim.
mets rule Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Hey peasant great thinking but we only play 18 games how about against the other teams. what a stupid childish post. and I believe you really thought about it for a while that scares me. How dumb can you be,
mets rule Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Peasant I am sorry you are mostly likely a young kid playing on the computer. you should not play on grown up blogs. now go to spongebob and play
PEASANT Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
haha, dude, i actually just went to espn and looke d up the stats.

somebody seems a little pissed. maybe because the phillies made perfect counter offseason move to your horrible choke artist team’s

why don’t you go play in the kid’s blog they call metsblog?
PEASANT Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
and again:

Ibanez hits .353 off Santana, and has seen him over 30 times, and he hits .318 vs K-Rod, who he has seen 20+ times, go cry mets rule
mets rule Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Hey rocket man it still is only 18 games we play against you. we have made up 34 games by our addition. do you understand do u n d e r s ta nd or do you need some help to get this, when you go to your 5 th grade class on monday ask your teacher to explain it to you.
PEASANT Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
i come here to talk about baseball mets rule, not argue with the stupidest people on earth.
mets rule Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Then you must go into your room and look in the mirror and talk cause that is the only person who would think you are talking with any degree of knowledge.
PhillipdaPhanatic Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
AMADUMBASS IS SO HORRIBLE11111!!!!! I WANT GILIK BACK HE WAS BEASTY.

AMARO WILL MAKE THIS TEAM HORRIBLE1!!!!11!!!!!1

IBANEZ IS HORRIBLLE!!!! WORST DAN BURRELLL IN EVERYY WAY!!
joshua Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
People ESPN are DUMBASSES KROD DID NOT SAY THAT! I listened live to the Press conference he was ASKED if they were gonna win the division. and KRod said “Want” before everyone of those statements…Of course we “want” to win the division..of course we”want” to say were the team to beat… however ESPN loves to twist fact with fiction so they take out the word want.
Justin Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Hey Muts drool please tell me who won the World Series last year and who won the divisions 2 years running? Ok so shut ur mouth.
Tyler Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
mets rule… ur jus a poor sport cuz we actually got to go to a parade this yr while ur mets who were supposed to be “the team to beat” lost out to our team… cant wait for j-roll’s next prediction… he’s 2 for 2
Phil Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
I have predictions of who will win each respective division along with who will take the wild card based off of the moves made at the winter meetings. Don’t get mad at my predictions because I do not predict they will win the east. I know it’s early but here goes.

NL
East: Mets(they lost the division becasue of their pen and now they have one)
Central: Cubs(who else can compete)
West: Giants(Noone made upgrades but them and everyone else downgraded)
WC: Phillies(I’d love to see them win the east again, but I don’t forsee it happening, but I don’t think any team from the rest of the NL could compete with them for the wild card)

AL
East: Rays(they are poised to repeat. The players are all maturing and just made a run at their 1st world series)
Central: Royals(Call me crazy, but I think they can do it.)
West: Angels(Yeah, like any of the other teams are good enough to compete with the Angels.)
WC: Sox(Eventhough the Yankees just got CC and Burnett do you really think they’re that big of an upgrade over Moose and Pettite? Moose won 20 games last year, and I doubt CC will win 20 for the Yanks.)

Playoffs
NLDS
Mets vs. Giants Giants in 5(Lincecum will outduel Santana. He’ll be too excited.)
Phillies vs. Cubs Phillies in 4(Phillies will show everyone that the curse of the Billy Goat isn’t going anywhere)

ALDS
Rays vs. Royals Rays in 3(Yes, I know the prediction of the Royals winning the central is silly, but they’re going to be the Rays in 09, just not as good. They’ll make the playoffs, but they’re not going to get out of the 1st round.)
Angels vs. Sox Angels in 4(The Angels will finally get over the hump and beat the Sox once and for all)

NLCS
Phillies vs. Giants Phillies in 5(The Phillies know how to get it done and Hamels is the man, nuff said.)

ALCS
Sox vs. Rays Sox in 6(The Sox will be healthy and Beckett will be the big time stopper he knows he can be)

World Series
Phillies vs. Red Sox Phillies in 7(This will be a World Series for the ages and the Phillies will repeat. Ryan Howard will hit a walk off home run against Papelbon in game 7…Yes the NL is going to win the WC this year.)
Phil Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
oops I f*cked up. I had the Angels winning the DS. Scratch that the Sox will. lol
Phil Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
I’ll give my award predictions as well: Yes, they’re going to be heavily Phillies biased)

NL
Manager of the Year: Charlie Manuel(He’ll finally get what he deserves)
Rookie of the Year: J.A. Happ(He is going to pitch like a mad man next year. He wants a spot in the roation and he’s going to earn his spot 14 wins 3.58 ERA 184 K’s/63 BB’s)
Cy Young: Cole Hamels(He’s a man on a mission. He’ll have a no hitter against the Marlins and he’s going to compile a 2.72 ERA with 229 K’s/54 BBs and a 21-6 record)
MVP: Chase Utley(He’s going to have the season we’re all expecting him to have. 42 homers 132 RBIs .346 BA .414 OBP .602 slugging)
Utley, Rollins, and Victorino will all win gold gloves too

AL
Manager of the Year: Whoever manages the Royals(I don’t feel like looking his name up, but when they win the central and they will he’ll win the award for shocking the baseball world.)
ROTY: Price(This kid has a lot of potential and will fill in nice in that great Rays rotation)
Cy Young: John Lackey(He’s going to have a career year with the Angels)
MVP: Evan Longoria(He’s going to follow up his ROTY campaign with a disgusting season to prove he’s the real deal.)

Sorry I’m giving all of my ridiculous predictions, I just have a lot of time to kill.
Justin Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Phil don’t get me wrong I love your award predictions, and am a diehard fan, but I don’t see Happ winning ROTY, and as great as Hamels is I don’t know if I would call him the front runner for Cy Young either.
joshua Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Phil. i like your predictions, I am a mets fan, though and I agree everything you said except i question 2 things.

1-Royals winning the central??? You’re joking with that right?
2 – Mets losing to giants. I don’t see that happening. even if the giants win a linscecum and santana match up. mets can easily win the next 4 against their lineup..put it midely, NLW is the WORST division in all of sports.

So my change would be mets beating giants, and thus resulting in phillies over mets in NLCS…of course I’m rooting for mets over phils…so i guess I’ll change that too..haha
Tyler Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
joshua… THANK YOU!!!… finally we get a realistic mets fan… it shows at least one of u has a brain
Memphis Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
mike mike — you know more about Phils draft history than I do, and I’ll concede that because we have a good scouting department, more picks are better than less picks, but still the MLB draft is usually a crapshoot. We’re talking one pick?

Of all the LF options that were available to Amaro — who did you prefer?

Holliday (via trade), Man Ram, Ibanez, Bradley, Dunn, Burrell, Hermida or DYoung(via trade), platoon with Rivera/Dobbs, whoever else I’m missing… all have risks, all could be supported or ripped. You don’t like Ibanez, but the pickins are slim. It’s not easy. I’m willing to wait and see how Ibanez works out before passing judgment. I don’t think he’ll be any worse than Burrell. Personally, I would have gone after Holliday or Hermida, or I would have made a run at Manny. But I’m not gonna cry about it.

Just trimmed my tree with my Phillies World Championship cap…
Tyler Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
i like hermida too & he’s my number 2 target on that list (not counting manny cuz thats just not realistic)… my number 1 is bradley… this guys a switch hitting power hitting hitter who can also just get a hit… if im not mistaken… i believe i read somwhere he led the AL in OPS… he would have been a great fit
joshua Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
You guys hear the ESPN report that with the yankees out, the mets are no going in for the Lowe signing? apparently their front runners too.
Tyler Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
damn
J-Man Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
MLB trade rumor says the Mets are the front runner for Lowe…Ruben needs to go get Lowe we can’t afford to lose out on him to a divison rival…Cheap ass bastard.
Geoff Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 12:18 am
Really? WHO CARES? Let the mets OVERpay for derek lowe, the phillies rocked him twice in the playoffs…

quite frankly, id rather see ruben trade prospects (not carrasco) for a younger, cheaper, better starting pitcher…
Geoff Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 12:19 am
let the mets give him 4 yeras 70 mm or 5 years 90 mm and TOTALLY f*ck themselves over..
Justin Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 12:21 am
The NY Mets are the Washington Redskins of MLB. Omar Minaya is just putting his fantasy baseball team together and not realizing it didn’t help George Steinbrenner the last 8 years.
joshua Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 12:25 am
the mets wont pay more then 3 years, they made that very clear. so don’t think that they’re gonna pay 4 or 5 years for him. They’re only in the market casue the price has now dropped considerably since yanks and braves are not in running, so its only phillies and mets i assume. So if the phils raise the price too much, the mets are backing out.
Geoff Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 12:48 am
3 years 36-40 mm no more..i really dont believe hes worth anymore than that…and i even think thats overpaying for him…hes a good pitcher, but thats why i hate free agency because anything more than that is honestly ridiculous. the only types of pitchers id give more than 3 years to are people like tim lincecum and cole hamels…
jim Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 12:56 am
Mets are better then the phillies everyone. the phillies are crap, scrubs&suckey players
Geoff Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 1:04 am
yeah theyre so bad theyre the reigning world champions…thats weak…you have to at least try to say that they wont REAPEAT AS CHAMPIONS, which of course, they WILL do
SJ Mike Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Geoff, remember, greatness to the Mets fans recently has been that they won 11 out of 18 against us this past season. Us winning the division, pennant, and World Series means nothing.

Oh, and apparently being a winning team is taking wads of cash and throwing it at problems. That’s the New York way of doing business in sports.
Evan Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 1:11 am
I’ve been mulling this move for awhile, and I’ve finally decided that I’d rather have Pat back than Ibanez. But if the Phils make a move cause of the few extra million that frees up, it could be worthwhile.

Bringing back Burrell would keep a right handed bat in a lineup that needs it. Defensively its not really an upgrade. Pat is a veteran and we’ve cheered him since he came up to the majors, all the way to a championship (not that I wasn’t pulling my hair out over him last year). That’s nothing to scoff at.

I’ll reserve judgement on Ibanez. I don’t think its a bad move, but I’m not 100% on it.
metsblow4show Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 1:23 am
These Muts fans come on here and just talk trash with nothing to back it up. They think because they addressed their bullpen problem that the World Series is theirs. Well, they have an aging firstbasemen who can’t field and is losing bat speed as we speak, a secondbasemen who was the most unproductive everyday player in baseball last year and is a clubhouse problem, an overated shortstop who worries more about his dance moves then doing the little things that actually win championships, a hole in leftfield and a hole in right. Ryan Church is a nice player but nothing more then a fourth outfielder on a good team. They still only have 3 starting pitchers, but Mutsrule comes on here with his “moron math” on how all this equates to them winning the World Series. Jim, the only thing the Muts are better then everyone else is choking division leads away in Septemberand thats a fact and you should keep your mouth shut until your team proves otherwise.
Manny Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Left fielder RAUUUUUL IBANIIEEZZZZ
metsblow4show Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 1:48 am
Is that you, Dan Baker? LOL
Justin Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 1:53 am
well put metsblow. only thing you forgot to mention is a the gm is probably the worst for throwing money at players who don’t prove their worth. The Mets are just overshadowed as the 2nd team in NY, hell they should ask the Pirates all about that feeling, being the 2nd or probably 3rd or 4th team in their city, if you include other sports.
metsblow4show Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 3:48 am
Hey Justin, are you saying the Muts are New York’s Ugly Redheaded Step Child?
Justin Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 11:20 am
ABSOLUTELY!
KM Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
I figured since a lot of other people are making predictions, I might as well throw my two cents in. As of right now, with moves still to be made I would say that the divisions would fall like this:
NL
East – Phillies
Central – Cubs
West – Dodgers
WC – Giants

AL
East – Red Sox
Central – Indians
West – Angels
WC- Yankees

I really think the NL divisons will fall as they did last season, and I truly believe the Giants will be improved. The Mets will fall flat on their faces again. Although they improved their bullpen, Beltran is overrated and Delgado and Tatis will not have the years they had last season. They have a few holes in the lineup, and the only way the Mets have a chance for the WC is if they land Orlando Hudson.

As far as the AL goes, I think the Rays will decline, but still be very competitive. They could win 88 games and still finish 3rd in the division. The Indians who finished strong will come out and take the division, but close behind them I think we may see the Royals. The Angels should be able to take the weak division handily, but I think they will have to compete with the Rangers for half the year. And I think the Yankees have done enough to win 90 games and get the WC.
metsblow4show Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Hey Km, its too early to make predictions like this but if you are making them on what is on the team’s rosters right now, how can you possibly pick the Dodgers to win the West? Right now, they have no Manny, no Lowe, no Furcal and they lost two of their middle relievers.
Tyler Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
agreed metsblow4show… i would take the giants to win the west and (i cant believe im saying this) but the mets to get the wildcard… i hate the mets just as much as any other phils fan… but we gotta be realistic… they will be good this yr & the west sucks… the only other potential WC team is prob the cards
Chase Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
NLCS:
Phillies vs Mets

That would be one heck of a matchup
Justin Says:
December 14th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Phils sweep…I can see it now, Game 4 Top 9 K-Rod in to try to save the game for the Muts, Raul Ibanez at the dish with Victorino on 2nd, Werth on 1st. The 1-2 pitch, SWING AND A GAPPER TO DEEP RIGHT CENTER FIELD, VICTORINO SCORES, THE RELAY HOME AND WERTH SCORES THE PHILLIES WIN ON THE GAME ENDING RBI BY RAUL IBANEZ!!! THE PHILLIES ARE GOING TO THE WORLD SERIES!!!
Dean H Says:
December 15th, 2008 at 1:03 am
I think we need to be balanced with this signing. The Mariners are very, very disappointed with him leaving them:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/392004_mari13.html
McChucker Says:
May 25th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
[quote]I am so tired of hearing the talk about burrell getting 16 million. he turn down two year 22 offer. I swear this is the biggest bull shit I ever heard. you all sound like the phillies propaganda dept. spreading a rumor to make today signing sound good. Where is this bullshit coming from he made 14 million last year overpayed and he will learn this year there will be less. Don’t try to justified this signing based on a bad story of 16 million. today we sign a bad leftfielder who only hit one year of over 300 against lefthander pitching. he can’t throw and is 36 he struck out 110 times yet he is a contact hitter. this makes no sense. Just say the truth we took a cheaper player who will cost us a first round draft choice. becasue we paniced and didn’t wait to see what would develop since the corner outfield market is loaded with option.[/quote]

All you December trade experts look like a bunch of dumbasses now. Raul Ibanez turned out to be the hottest hitter in the National Leaque right now. Plus he throws and fields 10 times better then Pat Burrell.

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