Phillies Nation

90 Responses to “Report: Phillies Make Offer To Derek Lowe”

1. psujoe Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

   It’s going to be tough to out bid the RedSox and Yankees. Anyone know if Lowe prefers the Al or NL?

2. KM Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

   This would be an amazing deal.

   If we sign Lowe, I believe the Phils will let Moyer leave, and let the 3 young guys battle it out for the last rotation spot.

3. KM Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

   I don’t know if he has a preference to either league, but I know he would prefer to stay on the east coast.

4. Robbi P Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

   Psujoe did you even read the article. The other team is NOT the Red Sox or Yankees. I guess that hopefully means those teams want burnett and would offer him a contract instead. If we re-sign Moyer our pitching depth is goign to be amazing as long as lowe does not pull an Eaton on us. I feel that Hamels, Myers, Lowe, Blanton, Moyer with the young guys maturing/emergency would be absolutely amazing. Whether this happens or not is up to Amaro.

5. Ben Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

   I think Lowe would work in Philly really well with his sinker. I just wonder if he wants to play in Philly though. My guess is that the Phillies are just throwing a number out there to see if it sticks and its probably a little less than he’d normally get. I wouldn’t count on Lowe being with the Phillies.

6. psujoe Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

   Robbi, I guess I read into it incorrectly. It says the two teams are not the Yankees and Redsox and then says Both are meeting with Boras today and tomorrow. I took the both to be the Yankees and RedSox? Just thought they’d be involved.

7. Griffin Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

   I think Lowe re-signs with the Red Sox. The Red Sox have to sign somebody and I think the Yankees and Angels will sign Sabathia and Teixeira (or vice versa) which leaves Lowe to the Red Sox. Also, since Burnett seems to be on his way to the Braves and reportedly got a 5 year offer, what kind of offer is it going to take to get Lowe?

8. Eb Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

   Sign Lowe and then concentrate on Victirino and King Cole

9. MA Phanatic Says:
   December 4th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

   If Lowe does sign, (which I still think is unlikely) he’d be a great #2 pitcher. The combination of Hamels, Lowe, Myers (circa 2nd half 2008) would be a fantastic start of the rotation. Blanton can continue to be an effective #4, and I think I’d still bring back Moyer. You can’t have too many starters, and this would allow Carrasco and Happ to continue to develop a bit more on schedule at AAA.

10. MA Phanatic Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    from the article…

    ” one baseball source confirmed that free agent Derek Lowe received offers from at least two teams, including the world champion Phillies. ”

    Hearing that phrase will NEVER get old.

11. TwoTonsOfIrony Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    I think it is still smart to keep Moyer, even with a signing by Derek Lowe (which would be quite a nice surprise). We were spoiled last year to have one of, if not the, healthiest pitching staffs in the majors.
    -We had a 45 yo play the whole season
    -An injury-a-season guy pitch over 220 in Hamels
    -A closer that never had to sit for anything other than pitch count.
    -A remarkably healthy bullpen altogether.

    Literally no one got hurt. The best idea is to try and have Moyer as a 5th starter and then if, and most likely when, someone gets hurt you have a myriad of choices (Carrasco, Happ, Kendrick, Ea…well you’ve got those three). So it would be smart to have that kind of depth. That’s the kind of thing that true contenders do. If you remember the Red Sox brought up Bucholtz(sp) to pitch a no-hitter two seasons ago. So it’s nice having good (even proven) talent sitting and waiting in the minors. Quite a luxury.

12. Geoff Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    I dont see why Lowe would want to go to the AL..hes solid pitcher, but in teh NL hes still a 3rd starter or beetter. on the red sox and yankees hes a 3-4th guy.

    signing lowe does probably mean goobye to jamie moyer. but tahts ok with me. lowes more consistent and happ or carrasco will be good enough in teh 5th spot.

13. Don M Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Its going to cost a FORTUNE to get him… espc if the Yankees dont get Sabathia.

    It might be a good thing we beat him in the postseason, he knows firsthand how good our lineup and defense are.. and im sure he’d rather play here then deal with those scumbag NY fans

14. Justin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    All this talk about signing Lowe just made me think of something so if anyone knows let me know. A. Did the Dodgers offer Lowe arbitration? If so was he a Type A or B?

15. Geoff Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Id be aggressive now though, which is what Amaro is doing with Lowe. Thats what the Braves are doing with Burnett. Because The yankees are floundering around waiting for sabathia and texeira. While theyre occupied, which wont be fort much younger, youve gotta swoop in there and grab lowe out from under their noses. the braves will grab burnett with 5 years…so the yankees will be pissed when they lose all three of those guys AND the cubs trade for jake peavy.

    look for the yankees to overpay for oliver perez and trade for another starter after free agency blows up in their face. i sitll think theyll sign texeira.

    for the phillies…once the yankees jump in after lowe forget it…unless hell take less (15-16mm) to stay in the NL. the braves know that too, thats why they went for 5 years of burnett.

16. RichieAllen Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    Hey anybody out there even think its possible that Lowe might WANT TO COME HERE ?
    We just won the series for gods sake..
    It seems nobody thinks its even a remote possibility.(and maybe with Boras its not gonna happen)
    Just a thought.

17. Geoff Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    they offered arb and hes type A, the phillies will lose a first round pick. but its worth it for lowe.

18. Griffin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Boras is notorious for getting his players signed as late as possible, so he’s not going to jump on the first offer. He’s not going to have any of his clients sign without checking in with the Yanks, Red Sox and Mets beforehand. And if the Yankees say “we need another week to decide on Lowe because we need to see where Sabathia winds up” then Boras will just wait another week.

    Lowe will be a Phillie if they give him the most money.

19. Chuck P Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Maybe this is why the Phillies did not offer arbitration… maybe they have some extra money budgeted towards a headline pitcher like Lowe (or Sheets).

20. TheDipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    I would like to think that as old as Lowe is that he’d place somewhat of a premium on winning a championship before he hangs it up. Now you know why Burrell and Moyer weren’t offered arbitartion. Its very un-Phillie-like to make an offer to a upper echelon pitcher this early…unless he’s got injury problems of course. Then its expected. I hope this is a good sign. My guess at the offer? 3y/40m.

    The Dipsy
    Chairman of the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation

21. Griffin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Lowe already won a championship in 2004 with the Red Sox. Lowe is looking for 15-16 million a year.

    If the Phillies do sign Lowe, then I understand why they didn’t offer Burrell arbitration, but they’re not going to outbid the Yankees and Red Sox for Lowe.

22. Pete Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    I’m still skeptical that we’ll be able to afford him at the end of the day, but this news coupled with Lowe’s comments in the article Tim linked to make me more optimistic. Lowe’s first choice is probably the Sox, but I don’t know how much (and for how long) they’re really willing to pay him. The guy they’d really like to sign seems to be Tex, so they’ll want to wait to see what shakes out there before offering Lowe a huge deal. The Sox also aren’t exactly in desperate need of a pitcher.

    If Lowe’s goal is really to go to a contender, the Phils are a logical place for him to land. And I think we’d be willing to pay him enough to interest him (say 3/46 or 4/55?). The real problem is Boras – he’ll want Lowe to wait until the Yankees/CC situation is resolved, since if the Yanks miss out on CC they’d make an offer to Lowe that would blow everyone else out of the water. The real question is whether Lowe, at the end of the day, cares more about extending his career by staying in the NL and playing for a winner, or getting paid in what will be his last big FA deal. If it’s the former, the Phils have as good a shot as anyone, as long as Amaro makes Lowe a real offer (and not a lowball sent over in the hopes of bringing Moyer’s price down)

23. Griffin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    well, if the Red Sox don’t sign Lowe, it’s probably because they signed Teixeira. The Red Sox will only sign Tex, if the Yankees sign Sabathia and then the Yanks wouldn’t be able to sign. If the Yanks sign Sabathia and the Red Sox sign Tex, then the Angels may have to go for a big bat-Dunn or Burrell. If all this happens, then the Phillies would still have to outbid the Mets and other teams for Lowe.
    So, a lot of things have to go right for Lowe to become a Phillie. Lowe was also quoted as saying that the first question he asked Boras this offseason was about signing with the Red Sox.

24. RichieAllen Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    The Sox dont like to sign older (age 36-Lowe) pitchers to multi year deals…check it out…
    But I cant beleive the Phils would do it either.
    Are we seeing a change with Amaro vs the Gillick method?

25. Chuck P Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    I would love to have Lowe but I don’t know if I would love having him if it means that Jamie’s not coming back. You can’t put a pricetag on the intangibles that Moyer brings to our ballclub. It has been well documented that Hamels and Ruiz have benefited from his wisdom. If we’re going to have to rely on a young rookie as a fifth starter, I would feel much better with Jamie in the clubhouse. Further, I could be wrong but I think that Blanton gained something by working with him too (something that hasn’t been talked about)… he pitched well for us but his biggest problem is that he struggled to pitch with a lead (would get a 4 run lead and then give up 3 runs in the next inning). I think that Jamie said something to cure that problem… I think that we saw the light go on in the playoffs and I would hate to see him lose that edge.

26. TheDipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Au contrere, mon frere. You CAN put a price tag on Moyers intangibles. Its: $0. That clubhouse stuff is all crap….”he’s like having another picthing coach”…blah freakin blah.

27. Griffin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    I read something that said if the Phillies can get Moyer on a Wakefield type deal (recurring $4 million option) then he’s an asset for the Phils, but if they have to pay him market value, they’d be better off letting him walk.

28. Pat the bat burell is a MET Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    anyone knows how much years and money they giving him?

29. Gavin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Lowe will sign with the highest bidder………Yankees or Sox.

    If the Phillies weren’t so historically cheap, I’d be glad to add Lowe, but if they sign him, that automatically closes the door on Howard or Hamels getting a contract extension.

    I’d rather go with Moyer and Happ/Carrasco.

30. TheDipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Hey did anybody see that chick Rollins was with at the Sixers game last night? Sa-weeet. He’s no fool.

31. Justin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    MLB Trade Rumors is reporting that Derek Lowe is the BACKUP option should they be unable to resign Jamie Moyer, that’s kind of odd that Lowe would be a backup option to Moyer.

32. Chris.I Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    I think it’s pretty unlikely that we pick up Lowe too. We’ll see what happens. It would be an explosive 1-2-3 (Hamels, Lowe, Myers), and we’d be up there with the Braves..If not better

33. TheDipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Yeah right Gavin. What do you know? You’d rather go with Happ/Carrasco than Lowe? Thats great baseball IQ. Howard will never sign an extension. Hamels won’t for at least another year. By the the time Hamels gears up for an extension Lowe will either be gone or in the last year of his Phils contract and Howard will be batting fourth for the Yankees or Angels.

34. TheDipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    How about this for radical:

    1. Sign Lowe for 3y/45millionish;
    2. Trade Myers for prospects to make up for the draft picks we lose;
    3. Sign Penny for 3y/24m;
    4. Forget about Moyer;

    Hamels/Lowe/Penny/Blanton/Happ

    I’d like that.

35. Pete Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    They’re not going to extend Hamels or Howard this year anyway – the first guys Amaro decided to talk extension with were Werth and Madson. That makes sense, since both are FAs after this year. Hard to see Madson signing an extension, but Werth might and it would be a good idea to ink him to a 3 or 4-year deal.

    As many have discussed, I don’t think the Phils will ever extend Howard – the price tag is too high for uncertain future production. Hamels is under control for a long while, and budget-wise it makes more sense to talk extension in a year or two when lots of money is off the books (Eaton, Thome, Helms, maybe Myers and Feliz) rather than this year when things are tight given all the arb raises due and the need to sign a LF and a pitcher or two.

    Going after Lowe is smart, even if he signs elsewhere in the end. With Burrell likely to leave, the Phils have two basic options – attempt to replace his offense or attempt to improve the pitching staff to offset the offensive decrease. Right now, the pitching market is far better than the OF market, and if we can get Lowe signed then we can afford a platoon in left.

36. Gavin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Dipsy, we all know you’re up Lowe’s butt……… in reality, I’d love a rotation with Lowe as the #2. Unfortunately the way the Phillies operate, making one move negates another move.

    I’d rather have Hamels and Howard possibly, rather than write either of them off to get a 36 year old Derek Lowe. Lowe won’t sign for less than 4 years, and by that time Howard and/or Hamels will become a FA.

    My gut tells me that they will sign Moyer and use this off-season to use Burrell’s $ to sign Howard long term. Then try the same thing next year with Utley.

    Dipsy, why are you so anamored with Lowe in the 1st place? Other than he’s a sinker baller for CBP. (That worked out well for him in the NLCS BTW)

37. Griffin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    This is a question from an ESPN chat with Keith Law:

    “Carl (philly): Reports out of Boston and Philly have the Phils making an offer to D Lowe. Any chance he could land there?

    SportsNation Keith Law: (1:20 PM ET ) Yes but I bet he waits till the Yankees sign a starter (or get snubbed by Sabathia and Burnett) to see if they’ll be motivated to up the price.”

38. Gavin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Good points Pete. I still would be shocked if Lowe signed with anyone other than the Yanks or Sox.

39. TheDipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    I am on his jock because:

    1) He’s old so he won’t get a lot of years. Nobody will give him 4.
    2) If he beomes ineffective as a starter you can always make him your set up guy;
    3. He’s a sinker baller;
    4. Pitches a lotta innings;
    5. We had sex once.

    The Dipsy

40. reddeath Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    well put pete.

41. Geoff Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Thats correct. You basically sign guys to extensions AFTER arbitration when you know what their projected value will be after a year or two of arb. theyll sign hamels after arbitration durin gor right after next season when they know what hell command as market baseline salary. then you jump on it early and try to get hometown discount. thats why madson and werth are going to get resigned first…

    which begs the point, i dont necessarily agree in going all early with players like they did with braun and longoria. now, will braun work ? probably. but longoria? yes hes good, but why sign a player to a huge long contract if you dont have to and you dont know taht he can play well consistenyl for years because theres no body of work.

42. Pete Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Gavin – how does signing Lowe negate keeping Hamels or Howard? Both of those guys are under the Phils’ control until after a 3-year deal for Lowe would expire anyway. Plus, Burrell’s money ($16MM is the TOP he would have gotten in arb, IMO) isn’t enough to sign Howard. Howard’s going to get $15MM or so in arb as it is; it will cost $20MM plus per year to extend him.

    Besides, in order for a Howard extension to make any real sense, it would have to be for 5 or 6 years (to buy out FA years, not just arb years). At that point, he’s going to be 35 years old, and every historical sign points to his numbers falling off a cliff at that point. Maybe he’s the exception, but his production has been in steady decline since his MVP year (OPS+ 2006-08: 167, 144, 124). Do we really want to be paying a defensively below-average 1B $20MM to put up a 105 OPS+ in 2013?

43. Matt Kwasiborski Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    This is awesome that we are making a play for a major FA pitcher! For once, we are a team that players would want to play for us and not use us as leverage. The biggest knock on CBP (and Coors Field) was that they were bandboxes and no pitcher would want to pitch here. And who were the NL’s last two representatives in the WS? Exactly. Screw John Smoltz! (Love him though)

    Lowe would be an excellent addition to this rotation. He wants to win now too. So, he wants to sign with a Northeast team and he will decide between us and Boston. I don’t think the Yankees, even if they sign CC (+Derek or AJ), will be winning next year. They have too many holes.

    Bring on Derek and Moyer will re-sign then take Dubee’s place in 2010.

44. Megary Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Me thinks this is leverage to try and get Moyer to commit one way or another. I’d be surprised if the Phillies offer to Lowe was all that competitive, but maybe…

    Either way, I don’t think Amaro wants to be caught holding an empty shopping bag.

    My guess is that talks with Moyer will start to heat up and reach a conclusion. Either Moyer will sign relatively soon, or the Phils will get agressive with another free agent (Lowe or otherwise).

45. maxhole Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    anyone feel that having a player on the team (madson) helps with talks with boras for any of the other players he reps? amaro talks to madson about a deal, soon after he’s knocking on the door of another player represented by boras? POS is rolling in the green.

    maybe this was brought up, i didnt read too many posts yet

46. Chris.I Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    Sorry to say this, but I think that the Phils are going to make a strong attempt to somehow lock up Ryan Howard one way or another. It might not be this year, and they might not succeed, but trust me! They will attempt to. They would be stupid not to. I don’t care what anyone says, this team was built around him, and we wouldn’t have gotten ANYWHERE without him. It’s tough to replace a big bat like the big guy.

47. RichieAllen Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    I would love to have Lowell…But I wouldnt mind having Moyer back for a couple of years either..I think Megary above hit it right on the head.

48. Mike B. Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    Dispy I disagree with you on the intangibles. I think you need a guy like Jamie to teach a young pitcher how to actually PITCH instead of just throw hard and hope for a strikeout, because look what happened to Myers when he tried that method. Hamels getting Manny to ground out with a first-pitch changeup (The Inquirer after Game 5)? Straight out of Moyer’s book. Obviously you don’t want to sign a guy just for his intangibles, but Jamie was around for Jack Morris and learned with Gred Maddux. He’s also kind of the bridge between the Phils and the fans, having been a lifelong Phillies fan. He knows how to play in Philly, and there are some players who just aren’t cut out for it (JD Drew, Scott Rolen, Kevin Millwood). I’m not saying that Lowe is one of those players. I’d still sign Lowe, but I think we’d regret it if his signing drove Moyer away, and I don’t know if Lowe’s signing will do anything else. I wouldn’t be signing him if he was washed up, but I’ll bet that he has one last good year left in his arm.

    Your idea of trading Myers was interesting, though. Lowe’s signing means we lose draft picks. But what if after next season, the Phils offered him arbitration? Obviously we’d let him go if he sucked, but if he does decently and accepts, we’ve got some pitching stability for 2010, and if he declines and someone else signs him, we get draft picks.

49. Memphis Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    I agree with Griffin (and the KLaw reference). This is great to be in on Lowe, but Boras is going to wait on the Yanks and Red Sox (or both) to get involved. It’s still a longshot. I just hope the offer is legit, and I’m going to assume that it is, though I doubt it’s for more than 3 years. Lowe would have to be intrigued to pitch in front of a great infield and be supported by a great offense (he won 14 last year without either), even if he’s at the Bank for half his starts. If it means not getting Moyer, then so be it. I think Lowe could win 20 with us. But let’s be real, this is likely his last contract, and he’ll be looking for all he can get. We’ll have to get lucky for things to fall our way (like, Yanks get CC and Tex and Sox decide they have enough pitching).

50. tom Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    He might be waiting for Sabathia but the yankees and redsox dont need him. The Yankees are going to challenge burnett. The sox main goal is bullpen and unloading lowell and get a center fielder.

51. NJ Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    This feels really premature, does anyone genuinely believe Lowe will be a Phillie? I wonder where’s more appealing and viable to Moyer than returning to Philly, struggling to think who’ll give him 2 years+.

52. Geoff Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    This is the right time to go hard after Lowe. Theyre doing the right thing here. If sabathia signs elsewhere, the Yankees will go hard after Burnett and Lowe. Theyre already making an offer to Burnett so the Phillies have a brief window to be aggressive with Boras, who is all about waiting and driving the price up, and give him that hes looking for BEFORE the yankees come in and spend like 20mm a year on lowe just so they can get him because saabthia will probably choose SF or the angels.

53. NJ Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    I heard Scott Boras tried to f*uck himself once… Because there’s no-one Boras won’t try and f*ck.

    Wonder if the Mets are the other offer.

54. Manny Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Haven’t checked the blog today, and suddenly I see this!! Oh wow… I’m extremely happy… Since day 1, all I wanted for the Christmas (offseason) was Derek Lowe. A 3-year deal would be great. However, I think they’re also using this to get Moyer to sign under Amaro’s terms –which is smart after all.

    Lowe is exactly the pitcher we need up there with Hamels to deliver the 1-2 punch. Pitching wins. Also, this would more than make up for our LF dilemma. They must go hard after Lowe, and see if we can sign him quickly. Lets hope Sabathia takes a longggg time deciding whether to accept the Yankees’ or some other deal.

55. Chris.I Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Sabathia would be out of his mind to take a 40 million dollar cut in his contract, so there is a 99.9% chance he’s going to sign with the Yankees. As far as Lowe goes…It’s going to be between the Redsox, and Phillies, and possibly the Mets, and I don’t see Amaro out bidding either one of the two teams. Lets face it, ALL of us would be shocked if he signed here, so what does that tell us? We haven’t been that fortunate since Thome signed with us. We never make explosive deals, ever. We’d rather go after wash-ups, and injury prone players.

56. Georgie Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Just got thru reading all the posts, two things-

    1. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if it happens.

    2. Dipsy, do others find you as annoying as I do?

57. metsblow4show Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    Remember Bobby Bonilla !

58. The Dipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    I have a good feeling about this. I don’t know why…its just a gut thing. I think the Phils want Lowe and I think they’re going to get him. I think the Phils are much more concerned about the number of years of the contract. I think they could stretch a little if Lowe will take the three and perhaps an option for a 4th which the club can buy out. Dare I say, the phils could go 3y/46.5m???? Further, if we do sign Lowe, who would you like to have for the next two years, Brett Myers at 25m or Moyer at 16m. I’ll take Moyer. Amaro could trade Myers for a nice bullpen arm, a blue chip prospect, and a prospect, thus offesetting the loss of our draft pick for signing Lowe. I think their are actually teams out there that think Myers is a good pitcher while we all know deep inside that’s he’s not.

    The Dipsy
    Chairman for the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation

59. The Dipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    Dear Georgie:

    Yes. Perhaps even more.

    The Dipsy
    Chairman of the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation

60. NJ Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    You know Lowe and Moyer is an either or situation right…

61. The Dipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    Sign Lowe. Trade Myers. Sign Moyer. Done.

62. maxhole Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    big time deal to lowe wont make hamels at all annoyed will it? he didn’t already run his mouth about half a mil last year did he? i haven’t done the math yet, but can the phils afford to pay lowe and hamels in two years?

    maybe i like making stories in my own head, but assume boras likes what he’s hearing with madson talks. would he use lowe as leverage to run madsons salary up higher in order to get both of them here. when it comes down to it, boras doesn’t give a damn about his players, he’ll manipulate to get his biggest check. and really, does he have the last say in where his client chooses to play?

63. GWFightinsFan Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    I think signing Lowe would be a great move…Moyer will probably go back to Seattle to end his career and we can use either Happ or Carrasco in the 5th spot. With the shitload of money the phils made last season there is no reason they can’t go out and make a big signing like this

64. Dan S Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    If Lowe signs with the Phillies, say goodbye to Moyer, because I do not see them signing both. For financial reasons(make room for arbitration) and they need to make room for they’re up and coming starts…especially Carrasco.

65. Dan S Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    I completely agree with Dipsy. Myers is to inconsistent.

66. The Dipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    And he never misses a start. Ever.

67. rich Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    i disagree with the potential signing of Lowe. he will turn 36 next season and will be 40 years old by the time his contract is finished. he will cost 15-16 million a year (one-third of what Moyer would cost) for 3-4 years (Moyer likely to sign for 2). during that time you have Jimmy Rollins, Brett Myers and Ryan Howard all becoming free agents with Myers likely to be looking elsewhere for a job as a closer. he’ll also cost you draft picks which are crucial to a team who’s core players are all entering their 30’s. i’d rather trade for someone to hit behind Howard [Jermaine Dye, Garret Atkins, Magglio, Vernon Wells]. i hesitate spending that kind of money on any starter not named Johan or CC.

68. Chuck P Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Dipsy… intangibles have certainly meant something to Hamels and Ruiz. Without Moyer, we would Brett Myers there to teach him how to calm himself down in pressure situations and how to approach the game… I think that Lowe would be great here. My knee jerk was to jump up and click my heels but you have to read between the lines. It sounds that they’re willing to let Moyer walk (Rosenthal confirmed that). I don’t know where you’re getting $16 million for the next two years but Moyer made less than $4 million last year. I would rather have Hamels, Lowe and Moyer, too but I doubt that is going to happen. In the end, we’re probably all correct in assuming that Lowe will end up in Boston. And no matter what, I wouldn’t give Lowe four years.

69. Manny Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    The 16 million you get it from not paying Burrell and Moyer in ‘09 and Eaton in ‘10. I also think it’s pretty clear it’s gonna be either an FA (Lowe) or Moyer.

    I believe the front office would resign Moyer for 2 years, but I bet Moyer is asking for 3… he says he wants to pitch till he’s 50, after all… If Moyer does not want 2 years (max!) then it’s better to let him walk and give 3 years to Lowe.

70. The Dipsy Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Chuck. Moyer made 8.5m last year with bonuses after a bad 2007. His arb # coulda been 10m this year had he won. Someone could give him 2y/16m. I disagree with you about the need for draft picks. Now is the time you push on the accelerator, with all your great players in their prime. Not to be a smartass, but did Myers actually tell you that Moyer was the one that set him straight? Or maybe was getting booted down to the minors for a month the reason. Why couldn’t he help Kyle Kendrick? Everybody is under the impression that Moyer is Yoda or something. If he was 8-13, 5.13 last year, he could have taught Myers a knuckleball, got him into transcendental mediation, and played catcher for him during his starts and we would all still want him off the team. I want Lowe. Take a look at Jamie’s last 5 years when you get a chance.

    The Dipsy
    Chairman of the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation

71. psujoe Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    Suppossedly Cashman was suppossed to meet with Boras today. Derek, we hardly knew yah.

72. maxhole Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    dip, what are you going to be called when lowe zips his blue striped pants up?

73. Pete Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Derek Lowe:
    ERA+ 2005-08: 114, 124, 118, 131
    WHIP 2005-08: 1.25, 1.27, 1.27, 1.13
    FIP 2005-08: 4.16, 3.68, 3.97, 3.26

    Jamie Moyer:
    ERA+ 2005-08: 98, 104, 92, 118
    WHIP 2005-08: 1.39, 1.32, 1.44, 1.33
    FIP 2005-08: 4.40, 4.95, 4.93, 4.32

    I like Moyer a lot, and he was huge for the Phillies last year. But to say that it would be preferable to sign Moyer over Lowe is a bit ridiculous, even given the salary disparity. Historically, there really isn’t any precedent for a 46-year-old to put up numbers even close to what Moyer did last year, so all signs point to a significant decline from that level of production. Even based on recent statistical trends, it’s clear that Lowe is a significantly better pitcher. Plus, in terms of setting the rotation, Lowe is a legit #2 starter; Moyer is a 4/5 guy at this point.

    If the Phils can sign Lowe to a 3-4 year deal at $12-16MM per year, that’s the right move, even if it means we can’t re-sign Moyer. Personally, I’d be partial to Dipsy’s idea of signing Lowe and Moyer then moving Myers for a LF, assuming Amaro could swing such a deal.

    Bottom line – signing Lowe upgrades the pitching enough that the Phils won’t need to worry too much about how they replace Burrell in LF. Signing Moyer instead means that LF is a big-time priority, because we won’t have upgraded the pitching to compensate for the loss of Burrell’s offense.

74. Pete Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    Put another (and shorter) way: is Moyer worth $8MM per for two years if he pitches like his 2007 self (5.01 ERA, 92 ERA+, 1.45 WHIP)? I think not. And I think it’s far more likely that we see THAT Moyer than the 2008 version.

    If Lowe pitches like his 2005-08 self he’s absolutely worth $15MM per. And there’s no reason to expect him to drop off in any significant way – he’s a sinker/control guy with no injury history. Barring a catastrophe, he should pitch well into his early 40s.

75. MadSon Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    I would love to see them sign Moyer and Lowe to round out the rotation and then in a couple months see where Schilling is and maybe bring him in to work out of the Pen.

76. KM Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    If they sign Lowe, they will probably go cheap in left field. They may even just platoon who they currently have under contract.

77. Tom G Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    With the actions of the Braves, Amaro realizes that the status quo will not be enough in the eyes of the Phily phaithful…bringing Lowe in as the #2 affords a quality pitcher, who with his sinker, adds to the Home Field effect.
    It affords the additional advantage to place a rook in the 5th slot with confidence we can inter-change if necessary (based upon success) JA HAPP, Carrasco, and Kendrick.
    Happ becomes the strong 5th man, with Lowe over Moyer, allowing JA to be the second lefty as opposed to a 3rd…
    Finally, the addition of Lowe brings a true stopper to go with Cole…benefiting the team from long skids…crucial in road series cruch time. One stopper is not enough…and Lowe can bring additional help to bouy Myers if they choose to keep him, instead of trading him. I would agree, that Myers becomes trade bait to bring in prospects…b/c of the class A FA signing…GO PHILS

78. Gavin Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    Just sign CC, KRod, Manny and be done with it already. Screw Lowe.

    Dipsy, you are annoying…….but I appreciate that you at least realize it.

79. Manny Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    As Pete said, Lowe is a HUGE upgrade

80. Manny Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 11:23 pm

    As for the mystery team that also made an offer to Lowe (and it’s not the Red Sox nor the Yankees)…. my gut tells me it’s the Mets. The Braves, who are also interested, already have a juicy offer for Burnett.

    It’s gonna be very interesting to see this one play out. LETS GET LOWE!

81. peasant Says:
    December 4th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    what pete said ^^

82. Luigi Says:
    December 5th, 2008 at 6:59 am

    I have been reading this blog for two years. It is a great outlet for Phillies fans to vent, celebrate and ponder. My wish last last year was Schilling, Lowell and Rowand and we know how that turned out. Just like last year
    I will put my faith in Ruben to do the right thing. He speaks with PG daily
    and that can’t be a bad thing. After all we are the WC Phillies.

83. NJ Says:
    December 5th, 2008 at 7:37 am

    I just have to say don’t get your hopes up guys, the Phils are in the game with Lowe and that’s all you can ask. We know his agent, preference to go back to Boston and he’s apparently not at all fond of CBP. The offers there and it’s up to him now.

    I just hope we don’t loose Moyer, Dispy he is some kind of Yoda. He brings a level of professionalism that has radiated through the staff and Cole, Kendrick, Blanton have all picked up on the little things Moyer does and it’s important not to loose that.

84. Derek Says:
    December 5th, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Just found this on We Should Be GMs, but it was kinda nice to think about…. We sign Lowe then trade Brett Myers and Jason Donald to Toronto for Alex Rios…..never gonna happen, but it’s tough to argue with
    Hamels, Lowe, Blanton, Moyer, Happ/Carrasco
    Rollins, Utley (when he comes back), Rios, Howard, Werth, Victorino, Feliz, Ruiz/Coste/Marson

85. Don M Says:
    December 5th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Do the Blue Jays have anyone that can play OF ..in the waiting? Would they be OK with losing Burnett and then Myers in back to back years, and settling for the draft picks they recieve? Halladay won’t be there forever, I can’t imagine that they want to let a bunch of pitching go, and I find it hard to believe they would want Myers as their big free agent acquisition if they would decide to keep him next season.

    Too much of that doesn’t add up.. I would be on cloud 9 if it happened though

86. Don M Says:
    December 5th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    I just forgot the fact that all of this revolves around us landing Derek Lowe first… which just won’t happen, too many other teams with bigger payrolls than us need him more than we do, and will spend more to get him than we will.

    Ruben Amaro said to Gary Papa that he thought Lowe was going to go back to the RedSox too

87. Chuck P Says:
    December 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Love it… is that weshouldbegms.com?

    To my man Dipsy…

    Lowe is def an upgrade over Moyer… never said he wasn’t. If the opportunity cost of signing Lowe is losing Moyer AND paying $8 million more to get him, I’m not sure if I could do it. You are right… in a perfect world, we ditch Myers and keep Moyer/Lowe (and Alex Rios, like Derek says:-).

    Moyer did not help Myers out of his funk; he’s too stubborn to listen to anyone… re-read that comment (I was saying that without Moyer, our young pitchers would be turning to Myers for advice and that’s a scary proposition…)

    If Moyer made $3.5 in salary in $4.5 in bonuses then it’s a good deal for everyone (he obviously performed). That’s exactly what you want… you build in bonuses so that players will elevate their play. If he’s willing to come back for a similar deal (certainly not the $10 million guaranteed that you said… but something like $5 million with bonuses), I would be ok with that.

88. Don M Says:
    December 5th, 2008 at 11:14 am

    I would be fine with $10 M guaranteed over 2 years for Moyer.. take his age out of it, and he’s worth over $10 M for one season.. Id say give him a little raise, and give yourself a team-option for a 2nd year, or 3rd year whatever you don’t guarantee him for. As long as he can pitch with an ERA under 4.50, and can help out your young guys along the way, he is worth a ton to this team

89. Мобиль Says:
    December 14th, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    Давно уже подобного не встречал.

90. Sviridov Says:
    December 19th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    Действительно интересно, а главное актуально!

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