Phillies Nation

20 Responses to “Jim Rice Could Help Jamie Moyer’s Hall Case”

1. Don M Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

   The Hall of Fame is supposed to be for THE BEST players.. no way should Moyer get into the Hall of Fame..

   Pudge is in.. Omar Vizquel is in.. All of those picthers should be in, except maybe..(did Mussina ever win a Cy Young or World Series??)

   I think Larry Walker was an MVP and led Triple Crown categories a bunch of times?? He’s questionable.. I’d say no to Todd Helton.. I’d need to look at Bagwell, Larkin, and Kent’s numbers before I’d give a better opinion on those guys..

   But I’m not a big fan of guys getting into the Hall just because its a “weak class this year”… I don’t know a ton about Jim Rice.. I know he was good, very good.. was he GREAT though??

2. Tim Malcolm Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

   Well the system is flawed in a way that the best players will get in over a course of a couple years. But for every generation there will be a 3-4-year lull where there aren’t any true no-doubters. Like in the last couple years: Goose, Sutter, etc. Would you put them on the level of the peers who got in first (Schmidttie, Carlton, etc.)?

   That’s when the Rices and Moyers of the world get their shots.

3. Megary Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

   Jamie Moyer has no chance of making the HoF…none. He is a good pitcher and a great compiler of statistics but nothing more.

   All Star – Once
   Cy Young – Never (best was 4th place in ‘01)
   League leader in Wins – never (2nd twice)
   League leader in ERA – never
   Strikeouts – never
   innings pitched – never
   shutouts – never

   Not only is he not one of the best pitchers of all time, he isn’t even close to one of the best pitchers of his generation.

   His career breaks down to the quintessential #3 starter…a position not given it’s own wing at Cooperstown.

   And I like Moyer.

4. Jim Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

   Just annoucned it
   Rickey made it but RICE MADE IT TOO!!!

   I ‘m estatic to hear this.

   Of course, they still blew it. Bert Blylven? 3700 career ks/..

5. NC Jason Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

   I too believe that the HOF stands for the best players. But people do tend to get sentimental as a player lingers on the ballot – as I could see with Moyer.

   His stats say otherwise – but what if he wins 300 games? Would that put him over the top?

   And do not discount the people who are voting writers and players. They might look favorably at Moyer, who is one of the best guys in baseball (next to Thome), when he is compared to some of the other players.

   I think there is a slight chance Moyer gets in. But very very slim. I think one of the main issues is that the players are not as good. There will not be as many 300 game winners, 300 K seasons, or players with longevity. I think the real question is, is it time for the HOF to change its requirements as the game changes?

6. PhillyGirlinMichigan Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

   Personally I think it will be a shame if Morris ends up not making it. I don’t know how many years of eligiblity he has left, but its not looking too good. He’s one of the players who really got me into baseball back when I was a kid. I really thought I was watching a future HofF’r back then in the 80s…(yes I’m that old…) Seems if it was an important game, he was on the mound.

   I just don’t see Moyer getting in. Yes, he’s got longevity, but he’s not a stand-out.

7. Tim Malcolm Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

   See, it really irks me that Rice gets in, but Mark McGwire is sitting far down with 22 percent of the vote.

   Call me opening a can of worms, but I think McGwire deserves entrance into the Hall.

8. Tim Malcolm Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

   Oh, and if Rice gets in, Richie Allen HAS TO be in.

9. Jim Says:
   January 12th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

   McGwire will make it eventually.

   The steroid debacle is still fresh in our minds and im sure most of these writers are baseball purists and are making big mac wait as “punishment”

10. Justin Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Well the problem Tim is Richie Allen is on a completely different ballot. Different people which I’m sure you know vote the older players in. I don’t think Moyer will get to 300 wins unless he honestly does pitch till he’s 50. But i do agree with NC Jason that the HOF should change their requirements for entrance into the Hall, as there were no set closers in the early days of baseball, it’s a big deal now, starting pitchers don’t pitch nearly as much or win nearly as much as they did even 20 years ago. It’s a new game and new players playing it. There should be some changes or most of today’s players won’t meet up with the requirements. ESPN had an article last week about how many of today’s closers would get in today and they wrote that of all the closers in today’s game Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman have what it takes, could be true but if you set the benchmark there that should lead a path for other closers of the game today to follow.

11. Richie Allen Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Rice and Henderson were just voted IN…

12. Chuck P Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    It’s as much about how long it takes you to get in as it is about whether or not you’re in. Rice deserves to be in… one of the most feared hitters of his day… but certainly not first ballot. Top 100 all time in hits, total bases, RBI, slg % and an MVP vote getter in 8 seasons. Henderson is a first ballot, no question. McGwire deserves to wait for cheating but I think he’ll get in eventually because, otherwise you might not have any HOF’ers from that era. In my opinion, Rice doesn’t open the door to Moyer but he does open the door for Albert Belle… very similar players. I like Dawson and I think he’ll be in. Blyleven gets overlooked and has much better HOF credentials than Moyer. His only problem is that he never won anything… W/L% of only 54%, only one 20 win season in his 22 seasons played, only 2 AS appearances, 0 MVP awards… he falls just short of the most notable HOF milestone marker; 287 wins (300 gets you in) but he has over 3500 strikeouts (5th all time) and 60 shutouts (9th all time)… when you compare their bodies of work, Blyleven is better than HOF’ers Don Sutton, Jim Bunning and Don Drysdale. Moyer has to pitch a few more seasons like he pitched in ‘08 (before I consider him for the HOF).

13. The Dipsy Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    Rice is right on that verrrrrrrry lowwwwer rung for power hitters. If Cepeda and Perez got it, I guess you had to let Rice in. Moyer? Hall of Fame? Thats a laugh. As for Blyleven….a good pitcher who pitched long time. No Cy Youngs, No World Series, I’d like to know hoe many all stars games he made. Tommy John is not in. Moyer won’t get in. They just don’t pass the “sniff” test.

    But Derek Lowe definitely has a shot!

    The Dipsy

14. Griffin Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    All Rice needed was 15 tries and a marketing campaign from the Boston sportswriters!
    Now that he’s in the hall, Rice will co-author a book with Dan Shaughnessy and they’ll both profit handsomely from the whole experience.

15. David Says:
    January 13th, 2009 at 1:20 am

    No way Moyer gets in. He’s had 7 good seasons, 2 very good seasons, 7 bad seasons with an era over 5, with the remainder being solid/average. If having 9 good/very good seasons out of 22 (roughly 40%) makes you worthy of the hall, with no great/dominant year, then there will be quite a few pitchers inducted in the coming years. Off the top of my head, Moyer is behind (in no particular order) Randy Johnson, Pedro, Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Schilling, Mussina, Clemens, Rivera, as of right now. Plus you’ve got guys who should be in the discussion in 5 years (i.e. Sabathia, Santana, Oswalt, Halladay). I think there’s a better chance that Hamels ends up in the hall one day, than Moyer does.

16. Evan Says:
    January 13th, 2009 at 2:04 am

    Moyer is a stand up guy and has earned a lot of acclaim for his career. What he did with the Phils in 2008 is amazing. Still, I’m not a stats genius but even I know his career as a whole does not stand up to the guys in the HOF and he’s just not meant for Cooperstown.

    Moyer will go down in history for the World Series run and for a very long career with decent stats.

17. Evan Says:
    January 13th, 2009 at 2:08 am

    Oh and McGwire is definitely a can o’ worms. I think he’ll get in, I’m not sure when but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was next year or the year after. At the end of the day we all know there are going to be a lot of guys who used ‘roids in the HOF. I suppose the sports writers who vote could choose to pretend the taint isn’t as bad if you can’t prove a player was juicing, but I hope they know better and stick with the stats.

18. From Section 113 Says:
    January 13th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Moyer and Blyleven are compilers.

    They don’t deserve HOF enshrinement. Both are very good but neither were ver a top pitcher in the game for a sustainable amount of time.

19. Dan Says:
    January 13th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    My feeling is Moyer has 0 chance at the Hall. A good pitcher, but really only had a couple dominating years and a boat load of average ones. His career numbers will be impressive due to his longevity, but that is the case for any player playing past age 40. As far as the others: Ivan Rodriguez is one of the best catchers ever and a sure fire first rounder. Bagwell has a legit shot. Vizquel will be the next Alan Trammell. No one else on the list gets in

20. NJ Says:
    January 13th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Moyer has too many guys to compete against from his era, there’s no way he sees significant numbers before guys like Schilling and Mussina let alone Glavine, Maddux and all the others let alone the positional guys.

    I love Jamie but he’s not hall material, unfortunate but the competitions too strong.

Leave a Reply