Phillies Nation

101 Responses to “Burrell’s Blast Beats Former Team”

1. Nick Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

   we have had so many losses this season that make me so angry

2. Michael N. Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

   is donald still injured lets give him a shot at shortstop for a little god knows Rollins need to go on one of these rehab stints.

3. Manny Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

   BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO J-HOLE

4. Greg V. Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

   After some ambient music and about 5 oz. of gin, I’ve calmed down. I suggest you all follow suit.

5. Al in Seattle Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

   On the bright side, Blanton gave the bullpen a rest… Rubber match tomorrow. Get em Phils.

   Not good that the Mets won tonight…

6. JeffS Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

   No, Donald is really hurt.

7. Manny Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:27 pm

   Keep an eye on the Marlins… with Ricky Nolasco improving after going to the minors (ala Myers 2008), that team now has some pretty good starting pitching…and an aggressive offense we all know too well.

8. Mark Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:27 pm

   .500 baseball here we come. this team is not winning the world series this year. pitching is spotty. the bullpen is a mess. jhole cant hit or make good choices in the field. charlie refuses to pull him out of the leadoff spot. howard either strikes out or hits a homer. the bench is horrible. ruiz and feliz are back to there normal selves. this season will get uglier

9. Geoff Says:
   June 24th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

   looong way to go relax. you really cant say something like that until the trade deadlineS are over with and you see how theyre playing just relax.

10. Bruce Says:
    June 24th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    OK, some mistakes were made at bat and in the field tonight; poor judgments by Werth (swinging 1st pitch with walk-filled bases loaded) and Rollins (nonchalant toss to Utley at 2nd base).

    Give Matt Garza his due credit shutting down the Phillies offense. He lowered his ERA to 3.61. A number that is envied by the Phillies’ starters. Oh, and must not overlook Blanton’s strong performance as well. He made one crucial mistake with the newest Phillies killer, Pat The Bat Burrell (a 2-run HR blast).

    Time to put this loss behind us and move on to tomorrow’s game.

    Let’s go Phillies!

11. Geoff Says:
    June 24th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    they have problems but they have MORE than enough time to fix them

12. Pat Gallen, Phils Examiner Says:
    June 24th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Good job by Charlie to keep Blanton out there for 121 pitches….see, its not that hard! 120 pitches wont cause his arm to fall off, unless its Moyer maybe.

    Keeps the bullpen fresh, although Romero bombed. I want to see more of that. None of this nancy 100 pitch crap.

    I also want to see Rollins in the six hole for the love of god.

13. william Says:
    June 24th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    i don’t think Mr Blanton has gotten enough credit for his play for june he has really step up and been the #2 we have needed this month. kudos to the bulldog !!! as for j-roll if he hits @ the #6 spot why why why mess with that charlie please show this team it’s about winning, loyalty is a good thing but, the team must come first if the players can’t see that then we do have real problems this year

14. Eli Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Knock Knock, here come the METS. Lets go mets.

15. Dan Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    I love how the Trolls were no where to be seen yesterday when the Mets were 2.5 back. Guess 2.5+ back is the magical number to get the idiots to stop posting. Seriously, it’s been back and forth for the Mets the past several weeks. Cream your pants when you actually get a 5 game LEAD in the division. Oh, and you seem to be forgetting the Marlins are hot on your heels. Another loss and you’re in 3rd place. Just thought i’d toss that out there.

16. Mattaction Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Blanton was filthy tonight, at least that’s one bright thing

17. beta sigma shag Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    so I just watched the game on DVR, and Blanton pitched great, one bad pitch, the offense on the other hand, bad, Wreth has to put the ball in the air there baseloaded no out.
    But this game is all on JRoll, I defend the guy, but come on you played with Pat for how many years you know it takes him a week to get to first base, why even think about a toss to second base there, you roll the ball to first and Pat is out. If they get out of that inning they would have scored in the 9th,. Just plain out dumb decission making there.

    Ok 12 34 am I got that off my chest,
    It is only one game and Gaza shut us down. Nice job, Stairs with a nice throw to home, and Blanton Pitched like a #2 with one bad start in all of June,
    The bats will be back tomorrow, and as for Mark get a grip, did howard strike out tonight? I don’t think so so what are you talking about, it is one loss and we are pitching better one #2/3 started at the trade deadline and we will be ok,
    I think we could win the east without a trade, make it past the first round of playoffs probably not.
    Geoff being the voice of reason, I think I must be sleeping, good post Geoff

18. Dan Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:44 am

    If you watched the game last night AFTER Price left you shouldn’t have been surprised that the Phils put up a stinker on O. After Price left you could see the O was still CLEARLY struggling to produce. In fact they practically died after Price left that game.

19. B-money Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:54 am

    The fact that we’re letting the Mets hang around while they are essentially a Double-A team does not bode well. I’m afraid of a role-reversal this season.

    We should be 6-7 games up on the NL East right now.

20. B-money Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    Geoff…be careful what you ask for. 121 pitches today, continually, might lead to fatigue/injury in September.

21. Eli Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    Believe me, we won 11-0. Our slump is broken. We beat the first place cards, who we all agree are a good team. Again, knock, knock, here come the mets. We will beat the marlins, they will fold, like you all have in June. We can beat the Dodgers and the Red Sox. Hence, 2009 World Amazin’ Champions. You all are so jealous, you wish you could play as good as us when hurt. Soon we will have Beltran,Delgado, Reyes, maine, and Perez back and healthy. Then no one can stop the powerful metsies. I declare us victors now.

22. BS Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 2:05 am

    Sorry, I think I need to clean out my ears. Did some Mut fan talk about us folding in June? Wake me up when September ends bro. And yeah, we’re real jealous about your non-existent championship. Where’s my rollseyes smiley?

23. Eli's Mom Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 3:18 am

    Eli, I have bad news. I’m cheating on your father with Chase Utley. I’m afraid Chase Utley is just so much more of a man than your father so I can’t resist. Plus he’s a winner and actually accomplished something in his life, like winning a World Series. Your father just isn’t anything compared to that.

24. Dan Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 3:20 am

    Just stay on your Mets sites. I don’t go to Mets sites just to stir up crap every time the Phillies win a game. Seriously, grow up.

25. Trout Boy Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 4:53 am

    All I can say is…

    J-Roll: WTF?

26. Michael N. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 5:54 am

    So i read a like a cpl days ago that we almost had Jason Marquis from the Rockies how about we increase the offer and toss in rollins if they agree to toss Tulowitzki.

27. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 7:13 am

    Eventually,somebody has to break thru in the NL East.Both Mets and Phillies are going thru major injuries for players that are dire to our respective clubs.Phillie fans learned the hard was that Pat the bat can kill you (trust me,he killed my Amazins for years) and it isn’t fun either that Rollins has floundered too.There is still more baseball to be played and BOTH Mets and Phils will be there in the end.T minus 8 days til Mets/Phils at the vault.

28. river327 Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 7:44 am

    Obviously, the Steve Jeltz award for Rollins is justified. But what about actually making him wear the number 30 and bat 8th during games until he starts playing better? If not, what about giving him a new nickname…like J-Eltz?

29. beta sigma shag Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 8:23 am

    I know I blew up a little last night, but I had a thought as I slept last night. Maybe this will be a wake up call to JRoll, I see him sitting tonight and thinking about what he did last night and all season at the plate. Coming back friday and go on a major roll. Cause he is going to start to remember what it takes to win

30. Papa Thompson Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 8:52 am

    Making Rollins wear No. 30 actually might be an insult to Jeltz. Jeltz’ career OBP is .308 – some 53 points higher than J-Roll’s in ‘09. Of course, Jeltz didn’t clog up the top of the line-up in racking up those numbers.

31. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Jeltz was not as bad as made to be (though not stellar by any means). I still say we need to rename this the Adam Eaton Award.

32. Maverick Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    Rollins Ranks 165 out of 169 in BA.

    Clearly he should not be leading off..

33. Maverick Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Should just name the award after Rollins

34. Maverick Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 9:47 am

    Jimmy should change his last name to O’fer.

35. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 9:56 am

    Rollins should not be leading off.. I’ll agree with that.

    I still don’t like how in a game that they were already losing 2-1 … Rollins play get magnified as though it directly cost this team the game..

    It was a multiple-hopper up the middle, that J-Roll thought his best chance was the underhand to Utley.. turns out that Zobrist busted it.. but if Rollins throws to 1st, and doesn’t get Burrell, everyone would question why he didn’t just go to Utley (which with two outs, and a ball up the middle.. is often the play)..

    that allowed Tampa Bay to add on a bunch of runs, but im not going to crucify rollins for it.

    Most of our lineup was also O’fer last night ..

    Rollins brings so much of defense that I’m STILL not that worried about his offense.. Omar Vizquel and others weren’t in the league for their bats.. and it’s not Rollins’ fault that nobody else on the team can hit #1 ..

    Werth or Victorino COULD do it.. but I trust Charlie, and if he still thinks Rollins gives them the best chance to win.. im all for it

36. Eb Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 9:58 am

    No need to jump off the bandwagon everyone, all this here come the Mets and .500 baseball talk is a bunch of bull. The mets stink and the phils will be fine. The only team that has a chance is the Marlins but our phils will prevail.

    J-Roll is another issue, he needs a trip to the DL or to be bumped in the batting order. I feel like Charlie doesnt bump his down more often because of J-Roll’s huge Ego, the “I’m a leadoff hitter” attitude. Well J-Roll lead off hitters dont swing at the first pitch and pop out all the time. He should be killing this offense, however the offense is still pretty good. He is like a second pitcher in the line up.

37. Manny Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:07 am

    Oh wow Don… you’ll defend Rollins till the day you die… you stubborn man. The guy is playing like CRAP.

    And how can you say “and it’s not Rollins’ fault that nobody else on the team can hit #1 ..”? Say what!? Last time I checked both Werth and Victorino can run pretty damn fast, have higher avgs and OBPs than J-out. They can hit No.1… and by the way, they probably won’t b*tch about it if Charlie moves either to the leadoff spot (like Jimmy does when he gets moved around). He is a weight on this lineup and that horrible defensive gaffe in the 8th was simply the icing on the cake.

38. Maverick Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Jimmy talkin about…”i’m a lead off hitter”

    I ain’t me if I can’t be me. And being me is all about me,” Rollins quipped. “You can’t have other people being me. They can’t handle me.”

39. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Manny, I also have to agree with Don and drink the Kool-aid on Jimmy. With the exception of his “lob throw” last night, his defense is worth the slump HOWEVER, I also agree he should not be leading off.

40. Julian Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    Charlie needs to sit Jimmy tonight.

41. Manny Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:30 am

    If his defense is worth the slump, A.J, then I’d like to see the numbers that show how many runs (or games?) (+ or -) he’s worth/cost the team… I think there’s a measurement that puts together defensive AND offensive performance… (Based on that, if I recall correctly, Utley has been our best player the past 3 years).

    Anyone knows the link or where to find this?

42. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    I just know that there is a lot more important aspects to your SS than his batting average..

    I’m also smart enough to realize that its a huge issue for your leadoff hitter to have such a low OBP% ..

    But Werth can’t hit leadoff because he’s the only Righty POWER bat.. and he needs to hit either 3, 5, or 6..

    Victorino, for whatever reason, doesn’t do well in the leadoff spot.. his career numbers have him hitting .241, with a .298 OBP%

    compared to Rollins’ career numbers of .278 avg… and a .334 OBP%

    Rollins’ BEST spot in the lineup, numbers-wise is 5th (.318 avg… .400 OBP%)
    Victorino’s BEST spot in the lineup, is 6th (.339 avg… .392 OBP%)

    Werth’s best spot is 6th (.277 avg… .366 OBP%).. and again, his Power means he’s more valuable in an RBI spot, than on On-Base-Spot..

43. John Russo Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    J-Roll is a complete joke. I’ve ranted too damn much about him being in the lead-off spot. You should keep his name on the Steve Jeltz award until he isn’t the lead off hitter anymore.

44. » Tampa Bay Tops Phillies on Burrell Homer, Late Bullpen Meltdown | Blogging-Baseball.com Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    [...] Phillies Nation’s Amanda Orr describes what happened next in the eighth; Pat Burrell hit an soft grounder to Jimmy Rollins.  Rollins nonchalantly tossed the ball to Chase Utley covering second, only for Ben Zobrist to be safe and a run to score.  Rollins made a huge mistake by not throwing to first, especially with a slow runner in Burrell. [...]

45. Georgie Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    I thought maybe a good night’s sleep and the light of day would make me feel less angry at Jimmy, but, no, not really. That lob to Chase was the last straw in my Jimmy bandwagon, Don, and A.J., you can make all the excuses you want , but there really IS NO EXCUSE. He played with Pat for how many years? It was a lazy play, Jimmy looks like he’s just going thru the motions now, not even thinking about what he’s doing. I will not slam a player, no matter how poorly he’s playing, if he looks like he’s truly trying his best, but that is just not the case with Jimmy right now. I can’t stand it when someone is dogging it, and I’ve seen him dog it several times this season, like not hustling to first base on a pop-up. NO EXCUSE for that, EVER.

    I have defended Jimmy before, but not when he plays like this. Charlie can’t keep him down in the line-up because Jimmy’s ego won’t stand for it, and he probably disrupts the entire team by moping around when he is moved down. I would give him a spanking for being a bad boy, maybe that would help, since nothing else seems to snap him out of it.

46. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    with his “lob throw” last night.. I trust Rollins to make the play he thinks is best.. he’s a Gold Glove winning ShortStop..

    he didn’t have time to get anything more on that throw to 2nd.. sidearm wouldn’t have worked either.

    http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=5231805

    Watching the replay from the CF camera.. it looks like Rollins definitely would have had Burrell at 1st (who we all know aint the fastest).. but his ball took 6 bounces and was close to 2nd base.. again, not a smart play, but not the difference in the game.

    HOW ABOUT RUIZ BLOCKING HOME PLATE LAST NIGHT!..

47. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am

    Everyone’s saying not J-Roll .. which is fine..

    so who SHOULD bat leadoff ??

    Victorino struggles when he hits #1..
    Werth has to protect Howard and Ibanez or they won’t see any pitches to hit ever.

    just want to see which of the two people think is the best bet?

48. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am

    Manny, I know what you mean, however, it is not scientific enough for me to buy its accuracy because anything is possible in baseball. Still, I won’t even make an argument against it because you very well have a valid point. I still say though he has saved more games than given up because of his glove. Likewise, though, I only would defend him to a point. I won’t make excuses or say he should be leading off, etc. If we could DH for him and let the pitcher bat, I would do that. Seriously. I am not joking there. I cannot accept he is done with his career as some have indicated or that he is a ‘joke’ as others say. I think he is in a serious extended slump and I am not sure what he can do to beak out of it. I also am unsure what the Phillies can do, other than NOT let him lead off.

    Again, my friend, not arguing with you at all. I respect your view and we agree more than we disagree.

49. Chuck P Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:50 am

    I did not see any replays on the Rollins toss… was he really safe? At first glance, he looked out. Regardless, in hindsight, the correct play was to go to first. Nonchalant… that’s a very good description of Rollins’ season, thus far. He’s probably my favorite player but I’m still waiting for him to put it together for more than a week.

    Garza came out with something to prove… if you sleep on him, he’ll make you pay. He’s a high energy guy that plays with a lot of emotion… gotta try to get in his head a little bit.

    Romero was NOT good but there were some positives to draw from last night. Blanton was great. The team showed some resiliency and if the botched grounder doesn’t happen, who knows what happens in the bottom of the 9th. That was a great play by Ruiz to keep Upton from scoring (the throw was pretty good but the block was awesome). Park is not good in the fireman role… I think that he’s better with a clean slate (no runners on).

50. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:50 am

    Don M – that is why I am unsure what to do. I agree with you, there are few alternatives, but I don’t think HE should be leading off. I just don’t have another solution.

51. Chuck P Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Thanks for the video link, Don… he was out.

52. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Chuck P – JUST watched it on MLB Network. Zobrist was safe. Two factors in my opinion: 1) J-Roll was not that wrong. Because some are angry with him, they are making more of his throw. He got it there quick, but not quick enough. He acted no different than normal. Hence, that is where my criticism starts. J-Roll was not watching Zobrist hustle like Pete Rose. Had J-Roll peeked past Utley, he may have tossed it harder. I am not sure whether a hard throw would have nailed Zobrist, but it MAY have. I am not faulting J-Roll as much as the other criticism, but I am insofar that he could have moved the ball a little quicker, or dove to the bag. My opinion

53. Chuck P Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Kidding… he was safe.

54. Manny Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:05 am

    We’re not talking about career avgs, Don… we’re talking about what’s best for this TEAM right now! ie. Who would be better than Jimmy leading off today? You seriously think Jimmy is our best option?

55. Manny Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Victorino, who is HITTING the ball right now (I think he was hitting over .400 in the past several games), would a much better alternative for leadoff than Rollins (That is, until Rollins wakes up, stops grinning when he strikes out or pops up, and starts playing good baseball). I agree with you Georgie —at this point, it’s like he’s going through the motions, not even thinking throughly what he’s doing.

56. beta sigma shag Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    How can you even complain about Park he came in got a ground ball, that if JRoll had his head in the game and knew who was running down first base, would have got them out of the inning, then a blop hit, No way did Park pitch badly,
    Just watch Pedro a few innings before when Pat grounded out to him, he walked half way across the diamond before throwing Pat out, cause he knew it was Pat the Bat. Like stated before it is a mental error on JRoll part his head has not been in the game, I think his strugles at the plate are effecting him in the field. Put I still say you sit him today, and let him think about it and maybe get the fire back

57. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    I gave their career numbers because its a bigger sample size..

    THIS year.. Victorino is hitting .237 … .275 OBP when batting leadoff.. 4 Runs Scored in 8 Games

    which ain’t great.. but it is BETTER than Rollins
    .195, .237 OBP from the leadoff spot.. 35 Runs Scored in 61 Games

    …
    I said earlier that I don’t think Rollins should be batting leadoff right now, and we’ve heard a few times from HIM, from Milt Thompson, and from Charlie that he’s just about to break out ..

    So they must be seeing things in his swing that are positives.. he’s just not translating that to the games..

58. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:24 am

    Sit him and let him think about WHAT? trying to get that out at second base?

    it was a mental error.. and it wasn’t the difference in the game..

    You’re going to hurt your chances to win TONIGHT.. if you sit him for a play that happened last night. I highly doubt he gets benched for tonight’s game.

    THE BIGGER ISSUE..

    Why can’t JC ROMERO throw strikes right now?
    15 pitches last night, only 6 stirkes.. a hit, a hit batter, a walk … the lazy fly ball to left (where Stairs got Upton at home was nice) .. he needs to get in game shape.

59. Georgie Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Ya know what? All I’m asking is that the guys on my team are giving 100% for three hours a day. Considering the amount of money they make, I don’t think that’s asking too much. That’s why you’ll never see me bashing Jamie Moyer, he puts HOURS of preparation in before a game, studies opposing hitters until he knows them inside and out. Halladay does the same thing, they said he shows up at the park at 9am, studies hitters ad nauseum. It is every players responsibility to know the opposition and everything about them that is possible to know, and to be aware of that AT ALL TIMES during the game. This is what I expect of major league players, and I won’t cut Jimmy any slack here because he’s not fulfilling his duties.

60. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    beta sigma shag/Don M/Manny/Georgie/Park haters,

    Park is NOT even a factor here. He actualy did his job in that he got the ground ball. See above post for my take on that.

    Look, I am not, and have not been a Jimmy apologizer. I am not enjoying remotely defending him, believe me. I do not own, and will not own, any J-Roll marketing materials. I am a die-hard Lidge phan and I don’t even make excuses for him, other than he was hurt and something was just not right. So while I am drinking some Kool-aid with Don, I am not exactly enjoying it LOL.

61. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    OH Georgie,

    I do like Moyer, I will defend him too because of the reasons you say.

62. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:38 am

    Honestly..

    how does ANYONE outside the organization know how much or how little Rollins has been preparing for games?

    From everything i’ve read, he’s been taking extra batting practice just about all season long to try to get his hitting going..

    for someone to say that he isn’t fulfilling his duties due to lack of preparation is a just a lazy comment with no reasoning behind it

63. Chuck P Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    Manny- I’m not sure what else you can do…

    Something to ponder for the day… what is the most efficient lineup for this team?

64. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:45 am

    Don M – darn you for making me defend Jimmy LOL. You make sense though, I cannot argue with it. I honestly think Jimmy’s biggest problem is actualy he is overpreparing. He is trying too hard. I think that is the problem. Look, last night, Zobrist beat it fair and square. Jimmy’s throw may or may not have helped. If Werth wouldn’t have grounded into the DP, we also would not be talking about it. So it is not all Jimmy. We are all just peeved at him.

65. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    Chuck P – I speak only for 06/25/2009, not a solution:

    Victorino – CF
    Rollins – SS
    Utley – 2B
    Howard – 1B
    Stairs – DH
    Feliz – 3B
    Ruiz – C
    Mayberry – LF
    Werth – RF

66. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    I just think it sucks that every time we lose a game.. people hate Jimmy Rollins..

    he didn’t lose the game night.. the TEAM did .. He made a bad play on that ball up the middle.. but why was there so many guys on base at the time..

    and when he had his best game of the season last week vs. Toronto.. we still lost the game because of the bullpen..

    Im just not a big fan of bashing our players…especially players that are best-ever Phillies at a given position.. and one’s that helped us win the first Championship in this city.. he deserves more credit for his defense, less blame for his offense, and a much longer leash than people want to give him

67. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Alternate for the weekend

    Victorino – CF
    Utley – 2B
    Stairs – DH
    Howard – 1B
    Werth – RF
    Feliz – 3B
    Ruiz – C
    Mayberry – LF
    Rollins – SS

68. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 11:54 am

    Now, once we go back to the NL Rules, IF Jimmy snaps out of it:

    J-Roll – SS
    Utley – 2B
    Mayberry – LF
    Howard – 1B
    Werth – RF
    Victorino – CF
    Feliz – 3B
    Ruiz – C
    Pitcher

69. Georgie Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    Excuse me Don, a “lazy comment with no reasoning behind it”? How do YOU know the extent of Jimmy’s preparation? You seem to think that because you never say anything bad about ANYONE on the team, you are the ULTIMATE fan and have the inside track on everything Phillies related. I know Jimmy’s been taking extra batting practice, that’s NOT what I’m talking about. Does he look at video of other teams? If so, to what extent? Is he aware of who’s the faster guys, who’s slow (Pat)? Does he keep these things in mind throughout the game? Don, when someone disagrees with you, you always resort to name-calling and “lazy” comments, VERY immature.

70. Manny Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    Don, I’m getting tired of this constant DEFEND JIMMY above all means thing… Had the game been 2-1, going into the ninth with Utley, Howard, and Werth due up… I think I would’ve liked our chances. Obviously, that play was the turning point of a one-run game.

    You also said that the normal thing for your Gold Glove SS to do in that case would’ve been to throw to 2nd base because it was down the middle, 6 hops, etc… Well, that’s not right cause here’s a little quote from Jimmy himself: “Usually I just pick up and go to first automatically, just because the ball is hit soft toward the middle and I’m over on the pull side,” Rollins said. “I don’t know what to say. I really don’t know.”

    So, normally he would’ve thrown to first in that SPECIFIC scenario.. and he didn’t… which just comes to show again and again that his mind isn’t where it’s supposed to be…

71. Philly Texan Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    RIght on, Don M.

    Waaaay too many J. Roll haters on here today. Look, he made a bonehead play last night. He knows it. We all know it. It happens. He’s still a great shortstop. With a one-run lead in the ninth inning, give me J.Roll out there every time.

    And why does everyone want to mess with the lineup? We’re still leading the NL in runs aren’t we? Even with Rollins struggles. When Raul comes back, the offense will be fine.

    They had a bad game. But give credit to Garza. He was downright filthy last night. He had dominating stuff.

    This team will score runs — and I still think Rollins will get hot. I’m much more worried about the consistency of the starting pitching and whether the bullpen will hold up.

72. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Manny/Georgie,

    I won’t get in the middle of you and Don, but as long as you know I did not resort to any type of name-calling, we’re good. I do agree with Don on this one, on the substance (the other part s between you two). However, I will admit, my J-Roll patience is thin. You all should know I have not defended J-Roll like this ever. Normally, I agree with you all, but in this game I cannot blame anyone specific, just anyone not named Blanton.

    I will defend Lidge if you’d like instead.

73. Manny Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    So how long a leash should we give Jimmy, Don? It’s been a 3-month leash… pretty long already I’d say for ANY major league player. Hmmm… perhaps a one-season-long leash would be best??? This is beyond ridiculous.

74. Bruce Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    Geez… Rollins being crucified en masse in this thread. As if he was the sole blame for last night’s loss. Do I sensed some underlying issue(s) besides Rollins’ struggles with the bat? I hope it’s not a question of character or integrity. That would be an insult to his teammates, manager and knowledgeable fans alike.

    Don, one of the few voices of reason and calm today is quite right in regards to Rollins, saying.. “..it was a mental error.. and it wasn’t the difference in the game..”. It’s more accurate to describe last night’s game as “team” loss. The offense resumed their struggle with the bats although Garza’s performance last night would have given ANY team problems. I personally thought Garza’s escape from possible harm in the 4th inning when Werth foolishly swung first pitch into DP after base filled walks and no outs turn the momentum completely around for good.

    As far as Rollins is concern, I tip my Phillies cap to Charlie Manuel for his enduring patience knowing that if the Phillies are to repeat their success last season they will need Rollins to be their offensive catalyst when the chips are down in the second half of the season. There is no sense of desperation or panic at this time with the defending champs in 1st place and the also rans struggling at .500 level of play.

75. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    name-calling?

    My point was.. that we don’t know to what extent he, or anyone else prepares.. but im sure if he wasn’t preparing enough that would be an issue.. i highly doubt thats the case though.. for someone to assume that he isn’t preparing himself for games is a lazy assumption.. or as I called it, a lazy comment..

    A little while ago I was complaining that JC ROMERO can’t throw strikes.. you can mark that down if you want

    I don’t defend every player to the bitter end.. but when its a daily bash against Jimmy Rollins, and Jamie Moyer … two players that directly helped us win NL EAST titles, and the World Series … yea I think they deserve more credit and a longer leash than the majority of people on here give them. And I think its crazy that I’m in the minority on many pro-Phillies arguements

76. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    Yes, no love for J-Roll here. It is bad when I begin defending him because I have never been a big fan of him (though I have always liked him).

77. Chuck P Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    This is going to be a long one… but I think that it’s worth the read.

    There are two schools of thought… old school and metric based (from principles derived from the book Beyond the Box Score by Sky Kalkman). For the sake of argument, let’s assume Cha’lie’s kickin’ it old school and doing it right. Let’s look at the alternative, metric driven lineup.

    1. OBP is king in this spot. Speed is not so important since stealing bases is most valuable with singles hitters at the plate and the guys following at the top of the order are typically power hitters… this is one of your best three hitters… the guy without the power. This year, Utley has the highest OBP, he’s a top three hitter on this team and he has the least power (between Utley, Howard and Ibanez).

    2. Steps into important situations more often than the #3 hitter and therefore should be one of your three best hitters. This hitter should be the best hitter to move the runner along. A guy that can place the ball… does this not sound like Ibanez?

    3. A filler spot (not your best hitter)… statistically, on average, this hitter comes to the plate with fewer runners on than the #4 and #5 hitter so it’s counter-productive to use a run producer in this spot. This spot can be filled in after more important positions are taken care of… I ended up with Rollins or Vic.

    4. One of your three best hitters… the one with the most power. Ryan Howard

    5. Power is not necessary… singles, doubles, walks and extending innings can be productive here in front of singles hitters coming up. Typically, this is your fourth best hitter, unless that hitter lives and dies by the long ball… After Utley, Howard and Ibanez, our best hitters are probably Werth or Rollins (pre-funk)… Werth for now.

    6-9. Your worst hitters in order by declining offensive production with any excess speed towards the front of those hitters (since stealing bases can lead to runs with singles hitters at the dish). Speed at 6 followed by the rest… Rollins or Vic followed by Feliz, Ruiz and Pitcher

    So… our metric driven lineup looks like this:

    Utley
    Ibanez
    Victorino/Rollins
    Howard
    Werth
    Victorino
    Feliz
    Ruiz
    Pitcher

78. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    I don’t know Manny.. maybe you’re right… maybe 3 months is a little long.

    But don’t you think its weird that after every loss, everyone is ready to bench the whole time.. and they all suck..

    Meanwhile, they are still 5 games above .500… even with their #2 Starter, their Closer, and their best hitter all spending time on the DL ..

    I say it all the time.. that there is so much more to baseball than just someone’s hitting.. which is why I’ve defended Ruiz and Feliz so often.. and Rollins..
    There are currently two Short_Stops with higher Fielding-Percentages than Rollins. Marco Scuttaro .997%.. and Troy Tulowitzki .990% .. Jeter is tied with Rollins 3rd overall at .988%

    There is also more to defense than Fielding% …

79. Georgie Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Jimmy has always been one of my favorite players, but I was just as angry with him last year as I am now. He goes through these spells where he just looks like he could care less, then when things get heated up, it’s like he flips a switch and he’s the old Jimmy, playing like a madman. I feel pretty confident that his hitting will pick up, but right now he looks like he’s anywhere but in the game, and that drives me NUTS! I think this is the first time this season I’ve bashed any of our WFC, and I don’t enjoy doing it, but that game last night was very winnable until Jimmy’s “mental error”.

80. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    I gotta say this tho for Youse Guys…I remember a time youse guys LOVED and REVERED Jimmy Rollins.Now that he’s been very below par now you want to throw him on the scrap heap?Cy Johan goes for the Amazins today albiet its a duel vs Chris Carpenter.Tough game but I can see a 3-2 game either way.

81. Bruce Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    Your intriguing lineup can be played on a playstation video game but in the reality Manuel would laugh off that suggestion. First and foremost, Utley may have a career year with his power numbers (HRs, RBIs, Slugging Pct.,etc) and in no way do you tamper with one of the most productive hitters by having him lead off. I won’t bother nitpicking the rest of your proposed lineup. I’ll leave that to others here.

82. Philly Texan Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    The criticism of Rollins is just baffling.

    why would Charlie even think of benching him? for who? Bruntlet? Donald? Those guys can’t field.

    At shortstop. J. Roll makes the play 99 percent of the time — 98.8 percent of the time, to be precise.

    Even if he never gets hot at the plate this year — and I still think he will at some point — then at the very worst, we’ve had a Omar Vizquel-type season, which given the other hitters on this team, I’ll take.

83. Manny Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    I agree with that, Don… but the J-roll case is definitely different from the “they all suck, bench them all” argument after every loss. Here you have a guy that’s hitting .211 in the season, consistently. And then he tops that off with a mental mistake that’s not the worst in the world, but it’s definitely pretty bad. I mean, we expect (and should expect) a lot from Jimmy..both defensively and offensively. We’ve set a higher standard for him… we’ve said that he’s one of baseball’s (and the franchise’s) best… So it becomes extremely dissapointing when you see that he can’t even get close to fulfilling our high expectations… and then it becomes extremely irritating that you see him making mental gaffes like yesterday in the 8th inning. In my mind, that mistake is the equivalent of not hustling… that’s basically what happened, he didn’t hustle to make the best (or the most out of the) play. For that, you should get benched. Just like Charlie did in 2008.

84. mikemike Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    One of charlies best quality was he stuck with players, well this season its killing him. rollins should be batting lower and werth after watching three guys in front of him walk, to swing at the first pitch should be bench, how can you swing at the first pitch, when A guy is that wild. stupid baseball. Werth is nothing special, I Keep saying it and it will become true in the long run.

85. Bruce Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Manny says~ “..you see him (Rollins) making mental gaffes like yesterday in the 8th inning.”

    Please refresh my memory (and for others here) and give an account of those “mental gaffes” in the field Rollins made in the past.

86. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    We’ll agree to disagree about the benching.. it was a mental-error …. there are SO MANY TIMES in a game where they go to 2nd base for the final out of the innings, if its a shorter throw, and an easier play..

    Give Zobrist credit for busting it to second.. and Rollins, knowing that Burrell was the runner, should have gone to 1st base ..

    Does he deserve to get benched becuase Zobrist was safe?? No..

    IF Rollins’ play had been the difference between us winning and losing, i’d be pissed.. and there is the arguement that the offense has no chance, and you take much different approach at the plate in a 2-1 game, versus a 7-1 game..

    I get that.. its just that so often we’re quick to criticize our own players.. Rollins is in a slump .. in my mind he deserves to have us cheering for him and encouraging him to turn it around. I was at 2 games last week.. and people BOO him for making outs.. its just not deserved

87. Eli Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Are you nuts, Johan is on the mound and K-Rod in the pen. I see a 20-0 game against the cardinals who cannot play a lick of baseball. We will clobber them today. Let’s go mets and take first. You phillies are done. Go home now. I am more worried about the marlins than you all.

88. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Werth might not be anything special .. but plays good defense.. makes things happen on the bases.. and provides just about our only power from the Right-side.

    Lets come up with a lits of Right Fielders we would rather have… Im guessing its not that long a list

    Ichiro, Brad Hawpe, Nick Markakis, Andre Ethier?, Jermaine Dye?, Magglio Ordonez?, Jose Guillen? …

    Werth isn’t the greatest player ever, but Im glad he’s on our team.

89. Bruce Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Werth’s poor judgment in his AB with walk-filled bases loaded and NO outs situation in last night’s game was highlighted in a previous post by yours truly because of the team’s obvious struggle with their offense.

    I’m not downgrading Werth’s worth (smile) with the team. I do recognize his above average defensive ability in the outfield. However, I do question those who praise his offensive ability. To read those praises suggest to me he is underachieving at this time. Or could it be that this is the extent (and no more) of capability on offense? Which is on average, .260 BA (lower against RH pitchers) and some power and speed on the basepaths? And that my previous expectations prior to this season were too high on him? To be sure, Werth has some “worth” to the Phillies until a Mayberry or Taylor is ready to take over.

90. Phuck the Phils Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    If the Mets didnt have their Triple A team in they would be in first by at least 6 games

91. Eli Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    PtP, we will be. give it time. Johan is doing a stellar job now. We will get it back by defeating Carpenter, who is easily hitable.

92. Don M Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    IF my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle

    beat it, Mets fan

93. Manny Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    I’m sorry but didn’t Werth go 2-4 yesterday with a HR?

94. Eli Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    It is only the 3rd inning, sure Carpenter is pitching a no-hitter on us, but we can strike against their pen. Weak cardinals. Let’s go mets.

95. A.J. Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Ummmm, isn’t Santana like at 60+ pitches with one out in the 4th?? Is Eli for real?

96. LH Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Jimmy is bothered by his slump as much as the fans. Maybe last night’s unplanned mental mistake was an indirect result of his batting situation. Hopefully Charlie will re-consider his current position in lineup.

97. Eli Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Go to hell, AJ. Metsies are coming back now, b***h

98. Chuck P Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Bruce, I came up with that lineup going by the book… do I agree with it? No but if there are statistics behind it, then why not give it some merit?? Further, with him batting first, he should get a few more AB’s… what’s not to like about that? He’s not really a power hitter… he just happens to hit homeruns. I think that he would do well in that leadoff spot… he would do well anywhere. You can’t find a better tone-setter. I would love to see them try it… just to buck the trend. Everyone thinks that you have to have your best hitter batting 3rd and I don’t really think that makes sense especially when you have a team that doesn’t play small ball (which we don’t).

99. Richie Allen Says:
    June 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Look, I just think were pressing, and Charlie has to shake things up.
    Take JRoll out of the 1 slot …mix up the batting order.Hit Utley 1st for a few games,why not?
    And now the absense of Ibanez is big.But we have other good hitters in the lineup.
    This is just our annual June swoon.Its a long season,so dont panic.
    We cant let lack of production in JRolls case go unnoticed.Hit him anywhere else untill he heats up.But dont condemn him for ONE MISTAKE on defense.
    I also thought Madson was ready for the closers spot ,but there’s more than good stuff needed for that role.He doesnt have the attitude yet.He didnt seem confident in the last few games.

100. 4daysrest.com Says:
     June 25th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

     I’d just like to point out that Werth’s at-bat last night was the worst display of plate discipline I’ve seen this season.

     Keep in mind that we’ve been forced to watch Jimmy Rollins’ plate appearances all year, too. So that’s saying something for the scruffy-faced bat-flailer.

101. Bruce Says:
     June 25th, 2009 at 5:58 pm

     Chuck P, I understand your interest in statistics and using that as justification for a lineup you listed in an earlier post. However, as I stated before, you will never, NEVER see Charlie Manuel put Utley in a leadoff spot. Simply put, the question I would ask you is who will replace Utley’s 100 plus RBIs in the the 3 hole of the lineup?

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