Phillies Nation

77 Responses to “Jamie Moyer – The Angler”

1. Jessep Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 9:38 am

   Maybe Moyer read that Pedro discussion and it was his way of telling everybody who spoke negatively to eff off? haha. Real good game by Moyer jeez

2. gabriel Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 9:51 am

   “Moyer has also taught his pupils quite well. Ryan Madson and J.C. Romero each tossed a perfect inning to close out the deal.”

   well put… i love/hate moyer with the best of ‘em, and i secretly wanted him to come back to phils – as the pitching coach, or something to that effect.
   professor moyer’s ERA was 5.99 at yesterday’s start – very worrisome, but somehow was 8-6 for the best record amongst starters… another W and almost half a full ERA point later, he’s still the best (overall) amongst starters!!!
   this guy simply owns the fish, it’s really surreal in a way.
   this guy is truly a player/coach, every time they show him in the dugout he’s yappin it up with one or more of the other pitchers… what an asset to team… it’s clear to me now why they gave him 2 years and all that money… i mean, even if he gets hurt he can still contribute with coaching…

3. SP Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 9:55 am

   good article, pat. For all the naysayers, Moyer gives another decent performance. Let’s get behind him…

4. Maverick Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 10:02 am

   I was impressed with Jamies performance. You would think the Fish would catch on eventually and figure him out.. but somehow they keep getting fooled again..and again.. and again.

5. jennyc Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 10:04 am

   Pat, nice article. Well put. It was fun to watch Jamie dominate last night. 46 years old, sweltering heat….wow. And a nice hit to boot! Good for him!

6. Brian Michael Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 10:05 am

   I often wonder how the Phillies lineup would fare against Moyer.

7. Phlorida Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 10:13 am

   didnt one of the writers on this site say just the other day how Moyer should be the first on the chopping block?? The he throws a gem and its “the professor” this and “array of trickery” that. Yes he has had alot of run support, but the guy for one reason or the other, owns the marlins. I say keep him on if only for the future Marlins series. He knows his time is nearly up, and why he signed such a short extension. he’s already bought a house on the coast of florida so hes probably soon to call it quits anyways. (although it is near the Clearwater Phillies Spring area). Anyways, great game, especially against closest division team. Keep up the good work boys!!

8. Bender Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 10:14 am

   Moyer was the most impressive i have seen him since last time he faced the Fish in FLA .for some reason he dominates them there, the announcers nailed it when they said that the he feels comfortable throwing to the younger aggressive batters because he knows he can get them off balance and very ancy to hit his 65-85 mph pitches. We all know this is the exception not the rule and it is good to see Jamie dominate.
   I always behind ANYONE who puts a phillies uni on

9. Maverick Says:
   July 17th, 2009 at 10:18 am

   Brian thats easy…Moyer would dominate most of them…. Phils are a fastball hitting team.

   I estimate….

   Rollins would be batting around 200 vs him
   Howard would be 4 for 22 with 2 HRs and 10 strike outs

   i think Victorino and Ibanez would have the most success…

   Actually i dont see Moyer doing well at all vs Ibanez…..does anyone have stats on this btw….both of them have been around along time im sure they have gone h2h

10. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    I think Moyer would do pretty well going against our lineup … we hit lots of fly ball outs anyway.. I kinda think he would cruise..

    well either that, or give up like 7 runs and get yanked by the 4th inning

11. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    OFF TOPIC.. but “breaking news”

    I’ve read that:

    Blue Jays want: Drabek, Knapp, Marson and either Taylor or Brown

    (Not Jason Donald?? so that makes me think its not accurate)

    and then on ESPN, Buster Olney’s blog says “Phillies now unsure about Halladay” …but you have to be an ESPN-INsider to read it.. anyone have access to that?

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2ffeatures%2frumors

12. Jessep Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    here ya go

    The latest in the Roy Halladay chase: One report says the Phillies’ front office is split on whether to pursue the righthander or stick with the current staff that this week added Pedro Martinez.

    In an appearance on “Mike & Mike in the Morning,” ESPN’s Peter Gammons said he spoke with Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi on Thursday and added that the chances of a Halladay deal are about “50-50.”

    If the Jays stick to their guns and insist that any taker for Halladay also accepts outfielder Vernon Wells in the deal, the New York Yankees may be the only fit, says Newsday’s Anthony Rieber. He cites the Bronx Bombers’ ability to absorb Wells’ contract that runs through 2014. Wells is hitting just .263 with nine home runs and a .312 on-base percentage this season and will make $99.25 million between now and the end of his current pact.

    Yankees GM Brian Cashman is mum on Halladay, noting baseball’s tampering policy. But we know that if a good player is on the market, the Yankees are interested.

13. Conrad Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Ibanez against Phils pitchers:

    Moyer: 2 for 9
    Myers: 0 for 3
    Blanton: 12 for 47
    Durbin: 3 for 4
    Eyre: 0 for 2
    Lopez: 7 for 20
    Park: 3 for 24
    Romero: 3 for 22

14. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:39 am

    All three of the players the Phils consider untouchable AND Marson for Halladay… On your bike JP, he’s trying to take the Phils to the cleaners when no-one else seems to be offering near that much.

15. David M. Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:39 am

    Great job Moyer!

16. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:41 am

    Last week Gammons said that there was only about a 20% chance of Halladay getting traded.. the fact that its up to 50% means its going to happen.

    Good job by the Phillies …like I said before using the old poker-bluff .. keeping their cards close to the chest and telling the Blue Jays that they need to trade Halladay, just as much as we want to trade FOR Halladay..

    If the Yankees pick up Vernon Wells it looks terrible.. BUT.. I think Matsui, Damon, Nady, etc all are free agents after this year? So they will need an OF anyway.. and if overpaying for Wells (who isn’t a superstar, but can definitely still play) will get you a year and a half of Halladay. .. that’s not a terrible move.

    The Yanks wouldn’t have to give up as much in return, since they would be taking the contract of Wells instead of giving up prospects..

    Halladay, Sabathia, Burnett … yikes..

    Im guessing they would have to give up Chamberlain, or Phil Hughes?

17. psujoe Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:42 am

    Great job by Moyer. he really wants to keep that 5th spot.

    As for Halladay, I go back and forth on who I’d give up, Dravek or Happ. I love the way Happ’s been pitching, but teams will catch up with a guy with only two pitches. I think I’d prefer to part with Happ over Dravek.

18. Jessep Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:50 am

    The price tag for the Yanks would be higher… I think they’d have to give up both Joba, Hughes and probably Melky and one of their top prospects which is why I don’t see them doing it… They were very strong on getting younger throughout the years and not using the 04-7 technique of getting the aging superstars…. if they get Halladay they will clean out their future when they already have a good enough team to win it all this year.

19. Chuck P Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Sometimes this site is ridiculous… yesterday, I had to defend Jamie because it was implied that he should be replaced by Rodrigo Lopez. Now, just one day later, this article shows up and everyone is praising Jamie (and rightfully so). I read the chat from yesterday’s game… it’s absurd to say that wins are not an important stat. I get it, pitchers can be better or worse than their record indicates but a win is a win, right? If the team scores runs for him, that should mean that he’s more valuable to this team. He keeps them in the game and does whatever he can to go deep into games. He still knows how to pitch and it should be no surprise that he’s doing the same thing that he did in 2008… winning games despite not having a 90 mph fastball. He has had some BRUTAL starts in 2009, particularly early on, but he’s been much better since he has settled in. I’ve said this before, I really think that the short offseason had a negative effect on Jamie more than anyone else. Early on, it probably screwed up his muscle memory a little bit (fatgue). He might not have had the amount of rest that his body needs at his age. But now we’re seeing that the muscle memory is back and he’s hitting the spots consistently.

20. psujoe Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    Chuck, Moyer’s 4.22 ERA sine May 20th(last 11 starts) is pretty good for a #5. Most teams would love that production.

21. christopher Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    i think the best part about Moyer’s performance last night was that in the 7th (?) inning, in the sweltering heat, while wheeler begs for him to get an out, the old man goes out there and guts out a base hit. gotta love jamie.

22. Jeff Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    The guys from The Daily News say the phillies will not get Halliday. I agree. They said the Phillies love there prospects more then the bluejay do. I agree. We never had prospects. They think Boston or the Yankees will get him.

23. The Dipsy Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    Thats what the Jays want? Thats their initial asking price? I thought they were going to ask for more being as this is their first “demand” if this is in fact what its is. For ME, if you can get Taylor/Brown outta there and replace with Donald…….

    The Dipsy

24. Walter Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Keith Law Espn yesterday on chat – somebody asked a question in which he put out a offer for toronto and asked what law thought about it:

    Keith Law (1:55 PM)

    I would not take that offer if I was Toronto, nor would I expect Ricciardi to take it. Marson and Drabek are both overrated, and as much as I like Brown, he’s probably two full years away and carries some risk.

    Trust me I think Drabek is underrated. He later tells that he thinks drabek is overrated because he has already had tommy john surgery and is injury prone because of that and that drabek is a light guy and doesn’t weigh much. well tim lincecum looks like a thin 15 year old and he is doing great.

    Well thats why these guys are only on tv, radio and internet and why they are only “predictiors”. They can’t see the future. they only make picks. did anyone see ibanez hitting .312 with 24HRS and 63RBI entering July 17th????

25. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:25 am

    The Jays clearly aren’t asking for guys they’ve scouted over the past couple of weeks, their asking for the Phillies best rated prospects hoping the Phils are that desperate for him. It looks more and more likely Halladay will stay in Toronto as the relationship festers more and reasonable trade packages are re-visited in the off-season.

    If what the Jays were asking for from the Phils was value other teams would be clambering to match and better it.

26. Jessep Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    I don’t know if any of you watch MLB Network… if you haven’t, I suggest you start to look there for post-game analysis rather than Baseball Tonight. MLB Network does such a better job in my opinion now. They are less hype and promoting their own causes (ie wednesday nights game on espn)

    They discussed Moyer’s start and the one thing they kept saying was if Moyer has an umpire that knows him, he’s gonna be good. Moyer has earned the corners just off the plate with certain umps and last night Rob Drake was behind the plate… a 10 year vet in the big leagues.

    I’m not saying it’s wrong… I def think players “earn” those rights… but they were saying that is the key to his success. If he’s got an ump behind the plate that will give him a strike call when it’s just off the plate… he can dominate a game because he can have pinpoint control… I thought that was a pretty interesting way to go over his performance.

27. Chuck P Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Drabek, Knapp, Marson and Taylor/Brown…

    Yikes… that’s a tough call. I guess that’s why RAJ gets paid the big bucks…

    I would hate to see Drabek go but he’s still young and he has already had one TJ surgery. His stock might never be this high again… Could he develop into a #1 or #2? Certainly. Could he land on the DL at some point with elbow problems? He could. I really like Drabek… his stuff is filthy and he is a pedigree. Not sure if he’s replaceable… if Happ continues his ascent, maybe we don’t need Drabek down the line. Hamels, Happ, Carrasco is a solid young core. Carrasco still shows a lot of promise; his k/9 is still hovering right around 9 this year.

    If you’re going to try to keep Vic/Werth around, there’s probably only room for Taylor OR Brown on this team. Thankfully, they’re both great baseball players… we’re giving up BIG TIME talent with either of those two. Knapp will be good… I’m willing to bet that we can replace Knapp by the time he’s going to be ready (still a few years away). Marson is blocked… I think that Ruiz is here for a long time.

    It comes down to Drabek, doesn’t it? Again, I think that we are in the driver’s seat. Every team that pops up in discussions flares out shortly thereafter. I like the fact that we’re being patient… let’s see if we can wait this thing out a little longer; maybe we can win a few more games without Halladay, extend our lead, let the other suitors bail and let the Red Sox pummel the Blue Jays to the point where they’re ready to waive the white flags. Taylor/Brown appear to be the BEST prospect that they’re gonna get from any team… we might not need to give them Drabek, too.

28. christopher Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    i hope that drabek does not have to be moved to get halladay, but if he does i REALLY hope they don’t have to include either knapp or carrasco as well. our pitching is not that young or that deep… we need some guys to potentially step up in a few years time.

29. XjasonX Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    thinking in the future here, it’s been fairly known that Myers would like to stay a member of the Phillies. Where would he land if we even did pick up Halladay, especially now knowing we have Pedro? I wouldn’t want to give up someone like Myers who wants to remain loyal to the team and can produce as a starter, for Halladay who will be a drain on the teams payroll.

    I think Halladay is good pitcher, but at the end of the day, I’d rather try to keep a player who wants to remain a member of the team even if they are a free agent than get a player who in a year could cost us more money than we should pay…

30. The Dipsy Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Nj – Its still a lot that they’re asking for, just not as much as we expected. How many other teams are out there that HAVE two prospects like Drabek and Taylor let alone willing to trade them them plus more AND willing to take Halladay’s money. The Red Sox could do it but the Jays won’t trade him there. St. Louis? Angels? We all know the key to this deal but it still remains unspoken.

    The Dipsy.

31. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    The idea that Moyer gets given a foot-up getting a good zone from the ump is so narrow minded, Volstad got exactly as generous a zone as Jamie did last night. It’s not like the umps are reserving parts of the zone for Jamie and not giving it to every pitcher he’s up against.

32. Brian Michael Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:38 am

    Jamie Moyer vs. current Phillies

    Rollins: 0-3, K
    Bako: 1-6, 2 Ks
    Ibanez: 2-9, 2B, RBI, K
    Bruntlett: 2-2, BB
    Stairs: 10-35, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 10 K

33. Sam Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    I think it’s pretty dumb to think that the Jays will trade Halladay to a team in the same division as them. They don’t want him to go to a team that they will have to face all the time, hence the appeal of trading him to the national league. Saying he’ll go to the sox or the yanks is just stupid, well the jays would be stupid to do it anyway.

34. The Dipsy Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:43 am

    OK. I get it. Jamie had a nice game. I’m happy for him and the Phils. I mean…ya know….thats the guy’s job.

    The Dipsy

35. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Dipsy I think it’s really coincidental that the Jays are asking for all of the players that the consensus view seems to be are the Phillies best prospects. I can understand a Drabek or a Brown headlining the deal as they are considered the two best prospects but the Jays are trying to sneak both, get Knapp and still get a major league ready prospect or two. To me it seems to casual an offer with no real work being done by the Jays to work on a deal.

    He’s not going to get traded inside the AL east in-season, the Yanks don’t need him, the Sox won’t give up their jewels unless it’s to block the Yankees from getting him. The Angels could offer higher ceiling major league ready prospects but their clearly not going to do that AND offer their top pitching prospects. Maybe the Cards are heavily in the mix but their clearly not going to match that kind of offer so the Phils are just bidding against themselves right now.

    Am looking forward to when the packages being spoken of for Halladay become realistic.

36. Chuck P Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:45 am

    Pedro’s only here until the end of this year… not part of the equation beyond 2009.

    Myers is making $12 million this year and the only thing he’s producing is time on the DL… you can’t (and won’t be able to) re-sign him. We’ll be asking for a hometown discount and he won’t want to take that. Someone will give him more money than he’ll be offered to stay in Philadelphia.

37. Jessep Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    NJ … you missed the point totally. Of course they were GETTING the same calls… but Volstad doesn’t have the control/accuracy to hit those outside corners or inside corners off the plate like Moyer does.

    If it’s off the plate it’s harder to hit no matter what so if Moyer can get it to that spot much more than Volstad, he’s going to be much more successful.

    It’s not narrow minded at all. I mean two former pitchers in Plesac and Mitch Williams were the ones discussing it. It’s not like I just came on here and made it up. I’m pretty sure they know more about pitching than any of us

38. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    how did Volstad “earn” 4+ inches off the plate against Werth last night??

    Anyone else catch Victorino dropping f-bombs in the dugout after he got called out in the 1st inning??

    Why the had/have microphones in the dugout, I really dont know..

39. Chuck P Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    From MLBTR… love the Bill Conlin quote (so true):

    Here are the latest Roy Halladay rumors and a bit of trivia to explain why he’s in such high demand: Halladay pitched less than seven innings for the first time this season on June 12th.

    Don’t expect the Cardinals to trade Colby Rasmus for Halladay. GM John Mozeliak told Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he won’t move the young outfielder in a deal for a player the Cards only control for a year and a half.
    The Dodgers are looking for relievers now, but they’ll try to acquire Halladay or Cliff Lee to improve their rotation, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com.
    Bill Conlin of the Philadelphia Daily News says Halladay’s availability has created such a frenzy that people “who wouldn’t know Michael Taylor from Elizabeth Taylor speak authoritatively about a hole in the … outfielder’s swing.”
    Mike Lupica of the New York Daily News says the Yankees should have enough talent not to have to bring in another Cy Young Award winner less than 100 games after adding C.C. Sabathia.

40. Jessep Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:54 am

    I forget who was on ESPN radio this morning but they were describing why they felt getting Halladay wasn’t the best move for the Phils and it made sense.

    I ASSUME the goal of this organization is to put up a consistent fight year in and year out. They don’t wanna be 1 or 2 year wonder…

    Myers, Rollins, Blanton, Feliz, Victorino, Werth and a bunch other smaller names are all due some sort of larger pay or new contract during the time of Halladay’s contract.

    So the argument was made that if they trade any pairing of their Top 5 prospects that it would in fact set them back because they have their core retained but they have plans for certain young players and getting rid of them will force them to start doing what the Yankees did in 05 etc and that’s sign older free agents just to fill in holes when they had young guys who coulda been ready to play at the same time.

41. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:54 am

    MLB Network is also much better because they talk about baseball all the time…

    instead of ESPN who has Baseball Tonight, for 20 minutes… and then goes to NFL LIVE in June and July.. as though anyone cares about what text messages Brett Favre sent to some reporter I’ve never heard of

42. Jessep Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    MLB Network also didn’t celebrate Manny Ramirez’s minor league stint as if he just came off a medical leave that wasn’t his fault or cheating

43. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    considering we’ve got a total of 2 WORLD SERIES titles in 125 years … I think its alright if we go after a few more right now, while we got arguably the most talents Phillies team ever.

    The 2008 and 2009 teams rival those of the late 1970s and early 1980s

    maybe not in terms of Hall of Famers.. YET

    because its too early to say that, but Utley is the best 2b we’ve ever had.. Howard is the best 3b we’ve ever had.. Rollins is the best SS we’ve ever had.. etc..

    Lets go get some trophies

44. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Take your point Jessep but if Jamie is getting that inch off the plate and executing while others aren’t he’s not getting a generous zone. In last nights game Volstad was getting a nice zone before Moyer started getting to work. I just see A LOT of nights when the analysis picks apart Jamie’s performance crediting his success to a generous zone. When Jamie isn’t getting a generous zone he adjusts like any pitcher adjusts to a generous zone.

    Vic deserved to be angry on getting caught stealing, the ump flat out blew that call.

45. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Didn’t hear the Victorino F-bombs, but hearing Jamie call out to use”two hands” to Ruiz to catch that pop-up was classic.

    MLB network is awesome.

    Yeah, that first SO (think it was the first one) on Werth was ridiculous. At LEAST 4 inches off the plate……and a little high as well.

46. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    There was another play at 1st base.. that I thought Utley was safe on. but it was the 3rd out of the inning, went to commercial without showing a replay.

    You guys know that play where Daniel Murphy of the Mets, flips the ball behind his back to get the out at 1st ?? I think he got Mark Loretta out on the play..

    Anyone else think Loretta was actually SAFE?

47. pb Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    I missed the game last night, what was reason Lidge was not used?

48. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    It was a non-save situation since we were up by more than 3 runs.. no point in using Lidge in a game you don’t need him, because maybe he then wouldn’t be available in a game where we did need him

49. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    Anybody here think that Jamie deserved the Ashburn award for last night? I mean, Raul’s two homers were very impressive and hugely significant as far as the offense is concerned but I think Jamie’s performance was far more memorable. Just my opinion.

50. Pat Gallen Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    My colleague Corey wrote the article the other day where Moyer was involved. Last night, he used his trickery to kill the Marlins. It’s the truth. Will he do this often? Probably not. But for a night, he was king of the hill. Lets hope for more.

51. Geoff Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    If thats the price for Halladay then pass. They should give up a larger quantity of guys to protect Drabek. That move would essentially give up most of their bests prospects for 1.5 years of ONE. GUY. As you can see, Taylor is close to major league ready. Though they might have to sit on him for a year in AAA in order to protect him though. This would empty out the upper echelon of their system and thats not a good idea for anybody and that proposed trade flat out will not happen in that form. It will have to be modified.

    The Yankees are the ONLY team in MLB who would take on Wells’ contract, so I feel that is just bluffing from Toronto.

    When Moyer gets 6 inches off one side of the plate, and 3 off the inside of the plate then he is a serviceable ML pitcher, otherwise its batting practice. So, to sum up, if he doesnt get almost DOUBLE the width of the plate then he is not effective. Thats why Im sour on him.

52. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    I could care less if more got 16 or even 26 inches off the plate … the goal of the pitcher is to try to throw strikes.. if the umpire is calling those pitches strikes, he would be foolish NOT to keep throwing off the corners.

    Does it matter if Hamels or anyone else throws them over the heart of the plate and gets hitters to miss… OR .. if Moyer throws off the corners and gets hitter to miss ?

    a strike, is a stirke, is a stike. … so take whatever the umpire gives you..

    the fact that Phillies fans complain about that drives me crazy

53. pb Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    my bad, I thought jaime gave up 1 run not 1 hit

54. christopher Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    wow, just noticed jamie didn’t get the ashburn. what a joke. they would have won with or without raul’s homers. they would not have won without jamie’s performance.

    and geoff, for the love of god shut up about the expanded strikezone.

55. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    a stike is a strike is a strike…..that’s true. AND…..the umpire WAS consistent with both teams.

    BUT….Geoff’s right….without the help of the umpire Jamie doesn’t have the same success. If he gets the expanded zone then he can hit those corners with accuracy….which is what makes him good at those times. Without the bigger zone he doesn’t have the same ability.

    But kudos to Jamie for seizing that oppurtunity last night….I would disaggre with Geoff here and say that he was a lot more than “serviceable” last night.

56. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Last night was a performance that’ll rank up against some of his best, 1 hit surrendered through 7 isn’t serviceable, it’s tremendous.

    When it’s said Jamie can only pitch with a generous zone I’d like to see what the other side of the coin is, I don’t think the opposing pitchers have great nights with that frugal zone. Moyer has some bad nights as every pitcher does but he gets torn down since his great games don’t compare to Cy Young candidates to level out his stats.

    I don’t know if Roy Halladay would have better Moyer last night in that one start, the old man pitched THAT good a game.

57. Don M Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Jamie Moyer has a career ERA of 4.22 ..and he’s got 255 wins

    whatever you want to call the reason, he’s been effective in his career, and more importantly, in his time with the Phillies

    He isn’t going to dominate anyone, but he USUALLY keeps his team in the ballgame, and gives us a chance to win.. sometimes he gives up runs due to the fact that the Phillies offense put up big numbers, and instead of wasting pitches trying to hit the corners.. he throws to spots and tries to have the batter get himself out.

    The reason he does this is to try to limit his pitches, and go deeper into the game… sometimes the hitters get themselves out when he throws it more towards the center of the plate, and sometimes the hitters rock him when he throws it there.

    But in close games (as last night was).. he tries to hit corners and be more conservative with pitch location.. arguing that his strategy or the way he has been effective in his career .. makes some fans “sour” on him … doesn’t make sense.

    I wouldn’t care if Moyer threw the ball underhand, behind the hitters, bounced it, whatever .. as long as the umpire is calling it a strike, you would be foolish to give-in more to help the hitters

    I propose July 16, 2009, to be officially known as “Jamie Moyer Day”

58. psujoe Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    4.22 over his last 11 games in more than servicable. I would guess it’s better than most #5’s.

59. Dave Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Re: the Halladay deal, If they switch out Drabek for Donald, I’d take it. Brown/Taylor, Knapp, Marson and Donald is a good deal (I’d prefer them to give up Brown, as I’d like to see them resign Shane). Hell, throw in Kendrick as well. Maybe with new scenery he’ll go back to 2007 Kendrick (not likely, but possible).

60. Chuck P Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    MLB TR is reporting that the Blue Jays are offering Clayton Richard (26 y/o lefty, 3-3, 5.42 ERA, 1.616 WHIP), Aaron Poreda (a promising 23 y/o lefthanded reliever that is on the big league roster), Dayan Viciedo (20 y/o, 5′11″ 240 lb, AA, 3b/DH, .264, .354 SLG) and Tyler Flowers (23 y/o, 6′4″ 245 lbs, AA-AAA, C/1B, .302, .566 SLG).

    The best two prospects on that list are Tyler Flowers and Aaron Poreda (a reliever…). Flowers is a solid player and a good prospect (not in BA’s top 50).

    Carlos Carrasco > Clayton Richard
    Jason Knapp/Antonion Bastardo Dayan Viciedo
    Taylor/Brown > Tyler Flowers

    Until we see/hear anything that leads us to believe that we need to give up Drabek, we don’t need to give up Drabek… ya dig?

    My $0.02.

61. Pat Gallen Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    psujoe: I think your probably right about that. Who would you rather have, Moyer or Barry Zito? Moyer or Bronson Arroyo? He’s been just as good as guys 10-15 years younger. There will be bumps in the road, but at least we didnt pay him $126 mil.

62. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    That deal isn’t going to happen so it’s foolish to even mention it. Drabek or Happ have to be in the deal and since RAJ said no to that then it probably won’t happen. And why would Toronto want Kendrick anyway? Throw in or not.

63. Chuck P Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Some of my post got deleted…

    Carrasco > Clayton Richard
    Knapp/Bastardo = Aaron Poreda (Poreda’s a reliever)
    Donald/Marson > Dayan Viciedo
    Taylor/Brown > Tyler Flowers

    Viciedo is probably a better prospect than his numbers suggest but Jason Donald is definitely better and Marson fills a need.

64. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    If Riccardi wants to make a deal there’s going to be some movement and a middle ground met. However unsexy it is, however many fans will end up saying we didn’t repeat because we didn’t trade for Halladay, Amaro has to wait out when Riccardi and Toronto are ready to deal.

    If Riccardi was serious about getting a deal done like Minnesota were serious bout moving Santana a deal will materialise, it’ll be expensive, but fair.

65. Dave Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Chuck, because there is that chance that Kendrick might actually end up being a decent #5 if he can master his change-up. His good year wasn’t completely a fluke.

    And if that’s the deal they say they want (Knapp, Marson, Brown and Drabek), I’m pretty sure they can be bargained down (and they know how hot the Phillies are on Drabek). You don’t go to the press with the absolute minimum that you’re willing to take. A top 25 prospect, a top 50 prospect and two solid B+ prospects isn’t a bad deal for them (and if it is, then they aren’t trading Halladay to anyone). It’s not like I’m suggesting Andy Tracy, Kyle Kendrick, Anthony Hewitt and Savery. Marson, Donald, Knapp and Brown is a good deal.

66. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    If fans want to complain that we didn’t repeat because we didn’t get Halladay then that’s their problem. You can’t make that kind of statement because there are too many other variables involved with winning a championship. Besides, who says we CAN’T win without Halladay.

67. Dave Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    btw, I really didn’t mean to compare Savery to the other three. All the same, he’s not quite as good as his numbers suggest.

68. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Exactly Chuck, this teams going to go as far as the team as a whole takes it. Halladay’s a great pitcher that has never pitched a playoff game, we’ve seen how many pitchers have crumbled in October (hell we beat one in Sabathia) and many predict multiple World Series with his addition.

    The Phils should go after Halladay hard but not tear up the farm for him. The veterans on this team aren’t so long in the tooth we can’t wait on the arrival of our prospects.

69. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    Yeah, you think it’s a good deal and I think it’s a good deal and a lot of other Phillies fans think it’s a good deal….but I seriously don’t think that Toronto thinks it’s a good….or let’s say a GOOD ENOUGH deal. It just seems that Drabek is the key to this and since RAJ said that Drabek is untouchable (said so yesterday or maybe it was Wednesday on 610 with Eskin) then the deal probably won’t happen.

    Amaro can say all he wants that Pedro’s signing is independent of any trade for Halladay but why else would he have signed him. He knows that Halladay probably won’t be coming here because he’s not going to trade Drabek so he is searching for other options. I’m not saing that Pedro’s the answer…..just another back-up option.

70. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Yeah…and Sabathia’s numbers aren’t exactly CY Young worthy this year…8-6 and an ERA just under 4. Not bad. But not worth what the Yankees are paying him. If the Phillies got Halladay I certainly would want his numbers to be A LOT better than those next July 16th.

71. Georgie Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    I saw the 23 year old Johan Flande pitch last night in Reading, half the age of Jamie, and he looked like crap. I wish I could have seen the old man pitch his gem instead, seriously, you can complain all you want about the “expanded strike zone”, but the bottom line is he used his craftiness and experience to win his 8th game, how can you not appreciate that?

72. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    He used his craftiness and experience BECAUSE of the expanded zone. He is not nearly as effective without it…..but when he gets it he takes advantage of the opportunity and that’s when he becomes really crafty. I don’t think anyone’s saying that they don’t appreciate that. Like Don M said earlier….who cares if the strike zone is 16 or 26 inches….it’s marvelous to watch a pitcher use what is given to him to succeed.

73. Dave Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    “It just seems that Drabek is the key to this.” Evidence?

74. Chuck P Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    “Besides, who says we CAN’T win without Halladay.”

    I’ll say this much, we CAN’T win a WS championship without a #2 starter… won’t happen… and since the biggest concern right now is the ineffectiveness of Hamels, it’s even more important that we secure a top of the rotation pitcher. It doesn’t have to be Halladay but it has to be someone that’s going to provide top of the rotation help… not a filler.

    If we get a TYPE B free-agent eligible pitcher, we will get one pick when/if this person leaves (highly likely). If we get a TYPE A (top 20% at a position) free-agent eligible pitcher, we will get four picks in return… if we get a Lee or Halladay, they’re Type A. Bedard/Marquis would be type B. Let’s say we trade three prospects for Bedard… we get Bedard (and his baggage) for a half-year rental and then we get one prospect as compensation. If we get Halladay for 4 prospects, we get him for 1 1/2 years and when he leaves we get 4 compensatory picks. If we get Lee (probably 4 prospects), we 1/2 year and 4 picks…

75. NJ Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    4 compensation picks when Halladay leaves? It’s a 1st rounder (assuming that first rounder hasn’t already been commited a la AJ Burnett) and a sandwich pick…

    The Phils have a slightly heightened chance of winning another WS by adding a front-line pitcher but it’s hard from a guarantee. A rental like Jarrod Washburn or Jason Marquis having a really good year might be all the Phils need.

    As much as its sexy to you can’t hang your hat on one guy.

76. Chuck Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Dave…the evidence is all the questions and inquiries about Drabek. Obviously, if Toronto didn’t require that he be in a trade, then all the questions wouldn’t exist.

77. Bruce Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Moyer, team leader with 9 wins (including his last 5 starts) and an ERA of 4.22 over his last 11 games can only win with “an expanded strike zone”. That’s hilarious. Those Moyer bashers can be so funny.

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