Phillies Nation

69 Responses to “Rollins and Victorino Paltry Against Braves”

1. Papa Thompson Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 am

   I’ve been saying it for a while — these two guys hitting back-to-back is a bigger problem for this line-up than Rollins leading off is. They swing at everything. And, while Shane’s still hitting for average, I don’t even like to think about the number of times Rollins and Victorino have been two outs on two or three pitches this year. One of them should hit down in the line-up all of the time, without exception. Can’t blame them for last night though, they were only part of that nightmare.

2. Keith E Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 8:25 am

   @Brian of “Your Gameday Beer”. Can we switch this from beer to liquor? Hurry up All-Star break.
   GO PHILLIES!!!!

3. mick Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 8:29 am

   Jimmy Rollins–if you are reading this—try a lighter bat–you look like a pee wee hitter with a heavy bat .You are an amazing talent,but adjustments are necessary

4. mets fan Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 8:50 am

   Jimmy Rollins is not rolling and fly hawaii Victorino is not flying. lets go mets this weekend.

5. Marc H Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 8:57 am

   At what point does this become more than a slump?? We can’t blame it on interleague play anymore.

6. Winks Tiddley Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 9:09 am

   I wonder what we could get for Rollins in a trade? He might be one of those guys like Juan Samuel, Andrew Jones, who is simply washed up at an early age. Maybe he needs a change of scenery or a good pair of glasses, or a good kick in the ass. He is NOT helping this team.

7. Greg V. Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 9:17 am

   I’m giving this team the night off. Watching them is depressing right now.

8. Brian Michael Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 am

   How about “Your Gameday Antidepressant Pill”?

9. Eli Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 am

   Here we go, LET’S GO METS, we are going to kick the phillies rears and be Worls Champs with or without the core of our team.

10. Keystone Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 9:37 am

    Mets fans, are you on any Marlins blogs too, because they are also ahead of the Muts in the standings.

11. Seth Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:15 am

    I think all the Phillies problems at the top of the lineup against the Braves would be solved if they traded for Jeff Francoeur and batted him lead off.

12. Georgie Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Brian, that’s a good idea, because I’m going to have to be in lala land to watch any more games like this.

13. Georgie Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:31 am

    Also, I’m beginning to think Pat Burrell may have been a much bigger influence in the clubhouse than we knew, especially when times are tough. I love Raul, not questioning his signing, but now I wish there had been a way to keep Pat, I think he was a calming factor to some of the more highly strung guys.

    Really, I’m grasping at straws here to try and figure out wtf is going on, and mostly to keep myself from freaking out. Cole is a big concern now, and he was the only sure bet, I thought, out of the SP.

14. Manny Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:33 am

    Let Werth bat 2nd, Vic 5th or 6th. I’ve always been a fan of Werth in the No.2 spot… I think he looks more comfortable there and Vic can swing away in the No.6 spot. Werth usually has long at-bats, which would set the stage for Utley.

    On a lighter note, I wonder what will happen to all those Braves fans chanting J-out’s average if he goes below .200 (two-o-eight, sounds good to the ear… but one-ninety-five?) They’ll have to come up with something new because Rollins is showin ZERO signs of improvement.

15. Jeff Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Cole has been aweful. We could of had Derek Lowe. These pitchers are horrible. Its amazing in the 5th inning Cole and Blanton throw 65 pitches. This team needs an overhaw next year. This year is over.

16. Marc H Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:39 am

    I hope the Phillies can sneak one out against Vazquez tonight. Rodrigo Lopez doesn’t exactly have “stopper” written all over him.

17. Lewisauce Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:43 am

    I’m not ready to pronounce that we need an overhaul, but times are bad. Consider that, as much as last year’s victory was about team chemistry and role players stepping up at the right time, there are cornerstones of the franchise that MUST perform if there is to be any hope of a repeat. Three of those cornerstones are Lidge, Hamels and Rollins (Utley and Howard are the other two).

    Unless ALL THREE get back on track, I don’t see this team winning anything meaningful this year. Lidge doesn’t have to be perfect, he just has to be effective. Hamels, well, we all know he needs to be an ace. And Jimmy is the team leader and the catalyst. If any one of those key pieces tanks completely and can’t pull it together for a run to the playoffs, we’re doomed.

18. Mitch Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 am

    Seth, I think you are on to something. The Braves might actually listen to a trade offer for Francoeur at this point. Though he has struggled at times, he is the brightest young prospect that MLB has seen in some time. With his versatility, you can bat him leadoff or cleanup. He is coming back around to being a 40/40 guy who will hit you close to .300 again.

    At this point, I’d be willing to trade both Rollins and Victorino for him. Frank Wren might be too smart to give up Francoeur for so little, though.

19. Steve-o Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 am

    I’m boycotting this team all weekend.

20. Chuck P Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 10:49 am

    Overhaul?? This season is over??

    Wow… it’s July and we’re in first place (slumping… I get it). Do you really think that this team will play this bad for the rest of the season? Do you really think that we’re going to stand pat and not add another pitcher? Do you really think that this team is going to quit?

21. NJ Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Chuck P- The season is clearly over, the roster is full of trash, the management are failing to improve the team at a time every other GM is trading left right and centre and haven’t you seen how well the rest of the division is playing, the slumping players on the team have no upside and we better start calling up career minor leaguers and prospects because this team has no hope…

    As for Derek Lowe, the Phills AND METS made their best offer and Atlanta swooped in and overpaid at the last minute to avoid their division rivals from getting him. Being bitter about Lowe is like being bitter the Phils didn’t trade for CC Sabathia last July.

22. AmazinSux Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Oh yeah, the Brewers got CC last July….. How did that work out for them?

23. joey from NJ Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 am

    Nothing to worry as long they are healthy . We are still in first place. Just both pitchers and hiters are in slump at same time. They will fire up and turn around when Mets come to town.

24. Manny Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 am

    I can’t believe those who are saying the season is over. WOW. WTF

    The team is playing horrible baseball right now. YES.
    The team is in trouble. YES.
    Hamels is bad right now and our offense is worse. YES.
    The bench and the bullpen are weak right now. YES.

    BUT IT IS FREAKING JULY 2ND, not even halfway through the season, and we are leading our division (even though by a very small margin). C’mon people! Winning happens when things click, and we all know that this team is capable of clicking at the right time, when it matters most.

25. Chuck P Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 am

    I realize that I sound like a homer… let me be clear, I think that our guys deserve to be booed for playing as poorly as they have been playing and they need to turn it around but we’re not out of this, by any means.

    One more thing… Derek Lowe is NOT that good (and certainly not worth the contract that he got). He’s 7-6 with a 4.44 ERA in pitcher-friendly Turner Field. You have to wonder how he’ll look in three years (he signed a 4 year/$60 million contract).

26. mikemike Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 am

    hey mets fans wait until next year we will be back, the phillies are done this year but next year is our year.

27. NJ Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    You don’t sound like one Chuck P. There seems to be a core of us here that spend more time responding to pure hate and anger that we spend most of ours defending decent realistic views of the Phils.

    It just gets boring listening to the constant rubbishing of so much of the team, management, ownership and ridiculous ‘fantasy’ trade scenarios that seem to make so many here so jaded thinking the Phils have some inherent right to go 160-2 with 24 all-stars leaving one guy they can rubbish endlessly for not being as good as the others.

28. Georgie Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    mikemike, whaaaat???? They’re done this year? Don’t give up already, it’s too soon, they might turn it around in August and Sept., they did last year. I’m just not ready to throw in the towel yet, that would really be depressing.

29. Mike D. Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    We need Ibanez back. There’s so much less energy when he isn’t playing. They look hungover (World Series style that is). Is anyone else reminded of the Abreu-era Phillies during this current stretch?

30. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    I posted under tickets exchange for anyone looking for an extra ticket July 4

31. NJ Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    This is a very Wadesque team right now taking the field nightly without any real purpose and anyone making visible adjustments look like prospects in A ball. This team is streaky, the hitting almost always looks undisciplined and under-prepared, the line-up and game management is rigid and inflexible showing no signs of using tactics to regiment any kind of progress through and between games, the pitching looks as if guys are going out there expecting no-decisions and losses BUT the good has unlimited upside. Those of you getting your panties in a twist need to live with the above because those faults led to a championship winning team and this team looks an almost mirror image of the won last year.

    Even if the Phils do not repeat, make the post-season, win the division or wildcard they will be in the thick of it until the final days and considering the talent will likely claim one of those things. This is a team with most of its core not even at its peak, with prospects capable of making an impact at the major league level and extending a window of opportunity and others who can help this team via trades.

    There’s no doubt the Phils need to be playing better, the coaching needs to be better, the preparation needs to be better (or show signs the video room is actually being used). Being dramatic or saying things like we need a sweep from whatever upcoming series or J-Roll needs to go 10-10 in his next series of ABs or Lidge needs to convert every save of be sent down to rookie ball isn’t constructive. The team needs to play better, show positives in losses and make the opposing teams work hard to beat us.

    Yes the team needs to be better and we need to be better as fans too. It’s pointless the guys running Phillies Nation continuing to write articles when so many are just going to bitch and moan about the same stuff come rain or shine.

32. Manny Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Tim Malcolm has cursed this team!!!

33. Papa Thompson Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    On Burrell being a clubhouse leader, LA brought that up on radio during a game last week … he said that with Burrell gone he wasn’t sure there’s anybody to get on guys when they aren’t playing well, and hold them accountable for poor play. Andersen said Burrell did that.

34. Chuck P Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    You got it, NJ… they gotta take it one at-bat/batter at a time… Rollins’ problem is that he’s trying to hit .400. Lidge’s problem is that he’s trying to be perfect again. The problem with this team is that, because of injuries and off-the-field crap, they’re stuck in a rut… saying, “Woe is me,” isn’t going to help matters. It was only a month ago that we were comparing this team to the Big Red Machine and the Indians squad of the late 90’s. It’s tough to get on a team when they’re leading the division. I don’t know if challenging these guys is the way to go- that’s only going to add to the pressure. We can’t lose faith but we can’t be happy either… one thing is for sure; the all-star break can’t come soon enough.

35. The Dispy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    Well, websites like PhilliesNation, or any other team website, by their very nature, are outlets for people that bitch and moan. Thats just the way it is. But let’s try to be a little constructive with our criticism, shall we? Cole is pitching poorly and I think is becoming obvious that he needs a third pitch (that curve is NOT a third pitch). How about a little cut fastball? That would be nice. Now, there is no #2 behind him to help pick up the slack. Consquently, the bullpen becomes a burned out husk. So many things going wrong at once. The hitting has two problems: Jimmy Rollins and the teams inability or unwillingness to take pitches. Ricky Bo is right when he says that the Phils are swinging at pitcher’s pitches. I think it will all straighten out though. Its a long season.

    The Dipsy

36. psujoe Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    I can’t wait till senor Ibanez gets back. the team is lifeless without him. As bad as the fighins’ are playing we’re still 3 games up in the loss column. We’ve got 3 games in hand over the Marlins and 2 on er Atlanta and NY. Lineup needs to change. Jimmy can’t lead off any more. Put him back at 6th were he was doing well, but do it for a few weeks. trade for Meche, Penny or Washburn now. We can’t wait any longer. If Bedard gets health so be it trade for him at the deadline. As much as I don’t want to trade Donald(because JRole may be done) I’d plug penny in and have Bastardo augment the pen when he gets back.

37. psujoe Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    The Dipsy, Ricky Bo made another good observation that Hamels and most ofthe staff, save Blanton, aren’t throwing inside enough. there just being way too timid on the mound. Atlanta just crowded the plate as if they owned it. That has to change especially if you only have two pitches.

38. Aviad Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Ptuh

39. NJ Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Dipsy the little rant was more directed at those who use every article to show their arbitrary displeasure at the team and hatred of certain players.

    As I see it the Phils from coaching through to the line-up aren’t making adjustments. The line-up shows no study of the opponent to take advantage of its weaknesses and attempt nullify it strengths, the in-game tactics are predictable and to me despite leading the league in stealing percentage the running game doesn’t seem to apply particular pressure on the opposing teams hitters. The coaching doesn’t seem to show signs of applying pressure on particularly the hitters to make adjustments to their game-plan and the defense is at times starting to look sloppy. Most of all the Phils look on the back-foot in pressure situations which seems to result in the blown saves and bad defensive fundamentals as well as looking incapable of looking like the team who’s going to win when games go to extras.

    I think the attitude seems to be to keep things as is and hit or pitch through the problems assuming better individual play will spark team-wide improvements. The downside seems to be seemingly horribly outmatched for a team of this team. we should expect the upside to return to the extent it has for the past half decade once we hit the business end of the year, to me it feels premature to feel too concerned about the results considering the teams history but it is horrible to watch. It’s not a good brand of baseball.

    We have to hope the team can play better, not the one game explosions followed between woefully under-prepared and inept games and put together some fight and willingness to play some effective small-ball with a flexible line-up no matter the results.

40. phils_ftw Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    Why are there even Mets trolls here, the Mets are in 3rd place ffs. Even if we do drop to 2nd or 3rd the Marlins will still be in first with the way they’ve been playing, the Mets AAA team won’t pass them in the standings.

41. mikemike Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    I HATE TO THINK THE METS WILL WIN THE DIVISION. so now that we are done I will root for the marlins, they have no fans anyway

42. The Little Guy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Larry Anderson made actually a good point yesterday during the beginning of the game last night…

    He said, “I hate to admit this and think like this, but maybe this team needs the Marlins or Mets to over take them in the standings for them to get their act together.”

    Because if you look at the standings, don’t focus on the .5 games behind…That doesn’t matter at this point in the season, the Phils are still 3 losses ahead of the Marlins and Mets, and 4 losses ahead of the Braves. You can make up wins, but you can’t take away those losses, so before all of you starting jumping out of buildings down town and proclaiming this team done, think back to last year at this time, Myers was in AAA, hitters were in a lull, Gordon was out for the year, who thought they would pull it together?

43. The Little Guy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    My point was, for as TERRIBLE and HORRIBLE as they been, the Mets and Marlins still have 3 more losses than them, and the Braves have 4.

    The Phillies look at that an are still relaxed, and just think their going to get out of their funk, but if they were lookin up in the standings, their mind set would surely change.

44. Smokey Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    I think this team needs a big, come-from-behind, possibly extra-innings win to revitalize their spirits. This has happened against the Mets more than once in the past few years and it would be great if history repeated itself. We also have yet to see Howard go on one of his team-carrying, best hitter in the NL streaks that he goes on every summer so to everyone saying this team is dead or that this season is over I say the best is yet to come.

45. M.P. aka A.J. #54 Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Does anyone but me realize we were in worse shape last year and lost first place from July to September? How did THAT work out for the Mutts?

    You all give up too easily. I may boycott the team and this site for the weekend. I am so sick of “The season is over”. The season is NOT over for ANY of us except the poor NATS. The season is over for the D-Backs and Padres. The season is over for the O’s and the Indians and possibly the As.

    I am not saying we will win, I am saying we can do it. No Mets fan can honestly say they will win, we cannot say it either, neither can the Fish or Braves. That is my point.

    I am so sick of this.

46. M.P. aka A.J. #54 Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    CORRECTION: Last July 2, our record was 46-39 (worse now, I admit) but we were up 1.5. I stand corrected, we are a little behind, but not out of it.

    We got the division May 30 and lost it July 24. Some of you stated we were done then too. Won’t name names yet. We got it back later July 30-August 12 to lose it to the Dodgers and got it back September 16.

    I am rational, but if anyone tells me we, the Mets, the Braves or the Marlins are out of it, you are wrong. We took it last year and it is not over.

47. mikemike Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Now that by monday we will be out of the race, we will become sellers, I wonder if there is interest in werth or ibanez, or feliz, maybe someone will give us a prospect for coste or dobbs, we can get some prospect for next year.

48. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Sellers! HAHAHAHAHA Im pretty sure youre joking…

49. The Little Guy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Even if we got swepted by the Mets and lost the final game to the Braves, and the Marlins and Braves won their weekend series, we would be 1 loss behind the Mets and Marlins and tied with the Braves in terms of losses, so i guess your right mikemike we would be totally out of the race, your hilarious.

50. The Little Guy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Swept*

51. The Dispy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Look it. J-Ro is GONNA hit. And when he does look out. Ibanez will come back. Problem: They…do…not…look…at…pitches. Teams like Boston know that the sooner you get into a team’s shitty bullpen, the better off you’re gonna be. I know they can do it because they did it BIG TIME in the playoffs and World Series last year, amazingly enough. So start doing it again. I would prefer not to hear Charlie say “I don’t wanna take away their aggressiveness”. That’s crap. Now the piching is another story…………….

    The Dipsy

52. M.P. aka A.J. #54 Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Mikemike, if you want to be like that: You are talking about dumping $13 million on others; not the best alternatives. How about we trade the entire Phillies team for the NY Mets so they can get their World Championship and we can be a third rate city?

53. M.P. aka A.J. #54 Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    No one is, or will be out of this race by the All-Star break. Seriously.

    Little Guy – I hope we clobber tonight so I can rag on the Mets AND people here.

54. The Little Guy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    MP, i hope too, but last night after the 1st inning, i said to my dad, “Their going to score 1 run tonight and get swept going into the weekend series with the Mets.”

    Honestly, i hate to say it, but thats what needs to happen for them to wake up and smell the coffee and see they aren’t as good as they think they are.

55. M.P. aka A.J. #54 Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Little Guy – it was not until that happened last year that they had fire. I agree with you and LA on that. If that is what it takes to light the fire, then I will pull for the Mets with the HOPE of greater good. Kind of like tough love I guess.

    All I know is I was going to to see the game, but sent my mother and stepdad for a day away. I just am not ready for it right now. I was like this last year too, so it will be OK

56. The Little Guy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Yeah i feel you, and i completely agree with Dipsy on the notion that they MUST take some more pitches and get the starter out of the game.

    I mean for Gods sake, look at what the oppostion is doing to Hamels, They take his change up, foul of a couple of his low 90s fastballs off, then hammer a high change or a inside fastball for a base hit and before you know it, its the 5th inning and he has 97 pitches and everyone is shaking their heads.

57. M.P. aka A.J. #54 Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Little Guy – They had the right strategy last year against CC. Victorino said their goal was to run up pitch counts. That is how Boston is doing it – and they will win it all if unchallenged.

58. The Dispy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Here is a lineup:

    Werth
    Utley
    Ibanez
    Howard
    Feliz
    Victorino
    Rollins
    Ruiz

    If you stacked those three guys at the top that would mean the starter would probably end up throwing, two times through the order, lets say 10 or 12 more pitches than he would as the current lineup is currently constituted. I put Feliz at 5 cuz he’s a righty to “protect” Howard. I mean, is this a crazy way to think? Charlie can send the message, “If you mfers want your spots back, use you effin brains when you hit”. Try that for three or four days. What could it hurt?

    The Dipsy

59. The Little Guy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Completely agree Dipsy.

    I understand Charlie is a players manager, hes laid back and all, but honestly, your top players are playing like crap, even with your pitching woes, you should be AT LEAST 5-6 games up on EVERYONE ELSE in the division, why not completely shake things up till the all star break or something, just to get them going.

    It’s so frustrating because their lineup is probably equally as talented as the Red Sox, yet the Red Sox are so much better coached and stick to their game plan, oh yeah and don’t swing at balls.

60. Eli Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    You all said it, Let’s go mets

61. The Dipsy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    I’ll even go as far to say that you can put Ibanez at 4 and move Howard to 5. Ryan is good but he can be soooooooo much better. In fact, his ceiling as a slugger is limitless. The great home run hitters make the pitchers throw them strikes. If they don’t, the slugger walks. Barry Bonds built his career around it. Adam Dunn does it today. Some of us forget that the object when you go to the plate is NOT to hit a homer rather its NOT to make an out. If you take the walk in the Phils lineup you’re gonna get knocked in a lot. Howard should be walking 100 times and scoring 110 runs. Instead, he’s got below a .330 OBP. Look, I know he’ll never have Ted Williams’ eye but for the love of god he swings at what can only be describes as unmitigated dog shit just way too often. Not bashing him. I just want him to be better.

    The Dipsy

62. mikemike Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    I am so lucky got back my money for saturdays game. can’t believe this guy wanted to go. lucky me,

63. mikemike Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Next years lineup I wonder if it will be the same ,we need a leadoff hitter for next year, since we are out of it why not try different lineups the rest of the season.

64. M.P. aka A.J. #54 Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    Gents, K-Rod blew another save, so hopefully we can lose the Met Trolls tonight.

65. Keith Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    we are not out of it, we’re leading right now

66. The Dipsy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Marcus Hayes is a moron.

    The Dipsy

67. The Dipsy Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    Is anybody watching this guy?

    The Dipsy

68. mikemike Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    yeah but the mets win again. florida need a relief pitcher maybe we can unload madson to them for some young talent or eyre too.

69. Corey Seidman Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    The Phillies are not out of anything. They will not be sellers at any point this year.

    Under no circumstances would the Phils trade Ryan Madson. After signing him to a three-year deal. Especially to a division opponent.

    I have a hard time believing any of YOU actually believe the Phillies are out of the race or in a position to experiment/rebuild.

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