Phillies Nation

114 Responses to “Offensive Outburst on Pedro’s Debut”

1. marty Says:
   August 12th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

   Pedro actually was pretty sharp early on.
   The guy hasn’t pitched in the majors for a year… you had to figure he’d hit the wall in his first start…

   he hit 93..
   he located for the most part…

   he’s gonna be fine.. Moyer will never start again for the Phillies

2. Phil Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 12:03 am

   It’s so weird seeing Pedro Martinez as the Ashburn Award winner. haha

3. george Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 12:15 am

   pedro didn’t look bad for a guy who hasn’t pitched in the majors in nearly a year and he was going against a pretty good lineup too.

4. Brian of CO Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 12:22 am

   Lets hope for more than 5 innings next time. He looked until the 5th. With that type of lead, probably should have left him in, or at least let Chan Ho finish it out instead of using Durbin. What the difference between 5 innings 3 ER’s against the Cubs, and 3 ER’s in 5 innings against the Marlins? The name of the pitcher, and how people react.

5. marty Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 12:29 am

   the difference is that Moyer has been pitching in the majors for the last year..
   and in august still has an ERA of almost 6… throws 80 mph….and gave up 11 hits that game.

   Pedro, missed a year and this was his first start!!!! give him a break…he could have easily let the Cubs hang around, let them score right back after the Phils did.

   oh and he HIT 93 MPH.

   he’s going to be good for this team…

   give him a break… he hasnt pitched in a year, he wasnt properly stretched out to go deep…and they wouldnt run him out there in his first start for the hell of it…
   he had 99 pitches.

   he’ll be fine.

6. george Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 12:36 am

   they prolly could of gotten another inning but cholly didn’t wanna over due it which i understand.

7. george Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 12:38 am

   and does anyone know when bruntlett will be off the major league roster?i know this was a blow out but whenever the guy come in he screws up some how i mean i’d rather em bring up someone like cervenak or something just to get rid of him.

8. Repeat! Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 12:56 am

   That Cubs Fan just took Beer-Pong to a whole-nother-level.
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B1K2OdUxHM

9. Brian of CO Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 1:07 am

   george, look at the bright side, he at least got that diving catch for the out just after coming in. I was REALLY surprised Bruntlett did that. Marty, Why assume anyone was talking about Moyer? Also, the Worst Fans in MLB award now rests with the Chicago Cubs, they should be proud. They call us “bad fans” because we throw snowballs at Santa Clause, oh boo hoo. Idiots.

10. george Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    nice to see other fans getting exposed when i went to the phils yankees game a yankees fan spit in a phils fans face…all they like to do is talk about how bad phillie fans are when we aren’t any worse then other fans.

11. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    George, they call us bad fans because we threw snowballs at Santa Clause, in what 1978, and for booing the team when they are actually playing really poorly. So we are labeled for one (eagles) game in 1978, and for actually “speaking” the truth by actually booing when they look like crap. i.e see the Marlins Series. I could give a rats @$$ what they think, because if when our teams arent doing well, we STILL pack the stadium. Call me biased, but we are the most passionate loyal PHans in MLB.

12. george Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 1:16 am

    were just like any other team that boos when their playing poorly,ok we may be a little louder then most but i heard cubs fans booing soriano and when milton bradley was stuggling they booed him left and right.

13. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 1:32 am

    I 100% agree with you george.

14. Mazinman Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Throwing that beer was shameful. Even more shameful will be that Cubs fans won’t get nearly the same about of talk time as we Phillies fans do when one of us does something stupid. Still, I have to say it was an increadible play by Shane to stay focused on the ball while having beer pour into his face and eyes.

    I’m guessing Pedro was going to pitch 5 innings no matter how good he did since it was his first game. Pretty good effort considering its his first time in the majors in a while and pitching against one of the best teams in the NL. I am definately very interested in seeing his second start.

    A good game all around. Tomorrow looks good for us with Chicago having to go early to their bullpen tonight and our new Ace going out there.

15. PGD Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    pedro for the ashburn award? he pitched alright but victorino had a homer a triple and took a beer in the face

16. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 1:46 am

    What made it even better (or worse depending on how you look at it) as the idiot Cubs fan was bring removed for throwing the beer on the field, another idiot cubs fan threw something at the security guards, and got thrown at as well.

17. PhxPhilly Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 1:59 am

    I agree with the Moyer vs Martinez comparison. Who gives a crap about age and fastball speed, Park throws harder than Happ.
    Moyer threw 5IN with only 2ER and gets negative comments because the team sucked that game and got killed.
    Martinez threw 5IN with 3ER and it was great start and big win because we scored 12 runs before Pedro needed a 10th out! This was not even a quality start with some people saying if he just gives us that performance each time out we should be in good shape. WHAT? His ERA is just as bad as Moyer’s and I certainly hope he can pitch at least 6IN. Maybe we can predict Martinez with get better but he’s 37 and could rarely pitch late into games 5 years ago.

    All the reporters/ bloggers who report this start as great and Moyer’s as terrible just have no objectivity.

18. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    I agree with PGD, but reality is that as long as Pedro got the win, even if it was 22-18 and all 18 runs went to Pedro, he was getting it because Moyer is out. As long as Moyer is out people are happy.

19. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 2:02 am

    PhxPhilly, you are using common sense. That has been illegal since January 20th.

20. Az Mike Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 2:38 am

    Enough of the Moyer love already. If he would have pitched tonight he would have gotten another win, but, he probably would have raised his era to 8.0 or so. If they could put Moyer on the trading bloc now or even after the season no one will want him.That speaks for itself! As long as Moyer is out of the rotation I’m happy! Did the offensive explosion tonight bring back the swagger??

    Tonight Pedro, Tomorrow Lee & On to Atlanta to Sweep Three!!!

21. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 2:44 am

    Exactly my point from before “As long as Moyer is out people are happy.” Regardless of how he actually pitched, people hate him. raised his ERA to 8 huh? LOL. FYI his ERA since May 20th was 4.40 right? Didnt think so, you are too fixated on the TOTAL ERA, and not the fact that it hasnt been getting higher, but lower.

22. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 3:42 am

    I still think one of the funniest stats of the last week…The Mutts in the last 10 games are 3-7, while the Nationals are 8-2. LOL. At that rate the Nationals will climb out of the cellar and move to 4th place. LOL.

23. bambam Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 4:08 am

    moyer has no upside. Pedro does. It is that simple.

24. Keith E Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 6:40 am

    @PhxPhilly
    @Brian of CO
    Agree and agree! 3 runs in 5 innings is nothing to write home about. Is there a performance clause in Moyer’s contract that lets the Phils off the hook for next year’s salary? If so then this move makes complete sense. There’s no way he will be an effective starter at this point next year.
    GO PHILS!!!

25. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 7:18 am

    I do agree with that Keith. I dont think Moyer will even be playing next season. I have this feeling that even when he was “negotiating” for the 2nd year, it was more of a statement that he wants to retire a Philly. Since he grew up a Phillies Phan, went to school at St Joes. Just a feeling. Hope im right, since he is barely hanging on now. He has been pitching better than John Smoltz. LOL. Not sure if thats an accomplishment though. LOL

26. Brian of CO Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 7:22 am

    I should have said retire a Phillie. you know what I meant though.

27. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 7:31 am

    @ Keith, there are no performance incentives that let the Phils off the hook for next year’s salary but there are incentives in his contract this year based on Innings Pitched, Starts and a few other things. I don’t think those incentives played into the decision at all.

    A couple of things. I am as happy as anyone to see Moyer not in the rotation, maybe not as happy as others to see Pedro in the rotation. I’ll be very honest. I have always rooted for the Red Sox as well as the Phillies. Not nearly with the same passion but I always would like to see the Sox do well. This stems from my father growing up a Red Sox fan. Ironically, over the years, as the Sox have become what they are, my passion for them has dwindled to the point that I almost don’t care. If it wasn’t for Beckett being on the team and being someone that I have met and shared a drink with on more than one occasion then I wouldn’t care at all.(Beckett was the best man at my cousin’s wedding, they were in the Marlins farm system together) Anyway, even as I rooted for the Sox, I was never a huge Pedro fan. Sure he was good, great even but I never much cared for his attitude. He seemed like a me first kind of guy. Kind of like Manny Ramirez. Funny, goofy but in the end it was about him. Why am I telling you all this? Just to show that I am not biased in my following statements.

    When the Phillies first signed Pedro I felt that he would be best utilized out of the bullpen as I felt he could be dominate in short bursts. His starts in the minors, and again last night showed exactly that. He was dominate for a few innings. Painting the corners and changing speeds like he had been doing it for the last 18 months. Then came the 5th inning and he hit a wall, and some of the hits he gave up, they weren’t bloopers like what got to Moyer in his last start.

    Pedro was effective last night, he wasn’t great, and honestly, he wasn’t much better than what Moyer did in his last start. But the difference is, as someone pointed out is upside. The Phillies have had the whole year to evaluate Moyer and what they saw is a stat line that is not acceptable for a 5th starter on a championship caliber team. Plain and simple. Moyer is not a serviceable 5th starter and I don’t understand how anyone can say that he is. Even a 5th starter should be able to put up better numbers than a 5.47 era. And please don’t come at me with, he leads the team in wins. We have beaten that horse and its offspring to death. Moyer did well in July. No denying that but his August was not very kind to him. Sure, you can pull stats from a certain time frame and paint a picture that supports the case that Moyer deserves to be in the rotation, and I can pull stats from a time frame and paint a completely different picture. In the end it comes down to this, and this alone.

    With Moyer, the Phillies knew what they had, and didn’t like it anymore, with Pedro, they have the opportunity to sit back and watch and see how he does. If he is in improvement then great, if he is just as bad if not worse than Moyer than it was a failed experiment. But how can you blame the team for not being complacent and wanting to try and improve. Not every move that is made is a successful one, but every move that isn’t made isn’t always a success either. Let’s ride it out, see how Pedro does. The fact is, come playoff time, if we get there. Neither Pedro or Moyer will be in the rotation anyway.

28. Bob Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 7:43 am

    Ok all in all a decent start by Pedro. For not being on a major league mound in a year, a very good start. His command should come with more starts.

    I also agree that if Moyer went 5IP, 3ER he would be getting crucified. And that is not right. But the night was not about Moyer. It was about continuing to take steps forward to dominate the NL East.

29. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 7:56 am

    Say it ain’t so Edr….. Say it ain’t so…… The Red Sox. I know it’s not your fault. But noooooooooooooooo………………………………….Billy Buckner!

30. SpinJamin Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 7:59 am

    Here’s the thing about Moyer. There is no upside. If he pitches a good game its not like he’s figured something out and is gonna go on a roll like Blanton. After Moyer pitches a good game you have no idea how he’s gonna pitch the next game. He is so reliant on location and the umps that he cannot make any mistakes. If Pedro gets on a roll and gets some more arm strength they actually could have an entire staff of pitchers who’s performances they can rely on start after start. 3 ER and 5 or 6 innings is about as good as it gets for Moyer. Pedro on the otherhand can be better if he can stay healthy.

31. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:06 am

    If Pedro stays healthy this move will make RA the GM of the year. RA has done enough already to warrant serious consideration. I used to call RA a “Yes Man.” Not anymore. If Lidge struggles continue, and I sure hope he turns it around. But Pedro and Myers could possibly replace Lidge and Durbin if we make the playoffs. Or at least Todd Walker.

32. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:07 am

    It is so Repeat. Sorry. But like I said, I really don’t care much anymore about them. I don’t know what it is. It’s like, I liked them more when they choked every year and now that they have showed they can get over the hump, there is no next step. They’ve done it now twice. Hopefully the Phillies have the same success. The difference for me is the time, effort, money and passion I have put into the Phillies. I can’t imagine not loving them the way I do.

33. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:08 am

    Edr. I meant no offense. I guess it just means that you must hate the Mets 2x as much as everyone else on here.

34. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:14 am

    Todd Walker has actually be pretty damn good in the pen so far.

    PS: Who did we designate last night when we started Pedro? I didn’t see or hear a word about it? Kendrick maybe?

35. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:17 am

    It’s cool. I didn’t take any offense to it. I do pretty much hate the Met’s more than any team in baseball, with the Yankees a close second. Though I think most of my hatred for the Met’s stems from their rivalry with the Phillies more than the 86 World Series. Also I have no love lost for the Cubs or the Dodgers. The Cubs just annoy me.

36. Viva Pedro Martinez : Mets Today Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:28 am

    [...] As if things couldn’t get worse for Mets fans, Pedro Martinez made good in his first start in 2009, allowing the Cubs 3 runs on 7 hits in 5 innings en route to his first win as a Philadelphia Phillie. [...]

37. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:28 am

    Hopefully Kendrick. I’m not sure though. You’re Texas Walker Stranger has been really good.

38. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:31 am

    According to the Phillies website Kendrick is not listed on the depth chart…then again, neither is Lidge so I don’t really know if you can count on their site for its accuracy.

39. LH Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 8:53 am

    I’m happy the Phillies won last night and blew the dust off their bats. Cubs’ pitching was exactly what the doctor ordered. I don’t like Jamie being stuck on the fence and disliked Pedro coming to the Phils because:

    a/he was a Met
    b/the Mets dropped him
    c/we shouldn’t pick up leftovers from the Mets

    I’m still withholding my acceptance because it’s easier to pitch with a large lead since the opposing batters are extending themselves to score runs. I will credit Pedro for pitching five innings considering he’s rusty. It’s not a good pickup until his numbers reflect an improvement over Jamie.

    p.s. I use the DVR to reply the beer throw last night. The guy with the wrist band, that acted innocent when the guards came, was about three people to the left of the guy who the guards removed. The as** had the gall to point and laugh at the guy being hauled out. Hope they eventually apprehended and fined him.

40. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 9:05 am

    The kid that threw the beer got kicked out too.. the phillies cameras showed him on CSN (I didn’t get the ESPN feed) .. so they did remove the kid from the game, but didn’t know for sure who threw it

    His face will be all over.. I don’t know what they can punish him with?? He threw a beer.. its a real dick-move.. but I don’t think its illegal?

41. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 9:31 am

    PHILLIES NATION EXCULSIVE! Cliff Lee has been here 5mins and already has a Subway Commercial. It was taped last week. It’s not due to air until sometime in September. But I stole a copy. Here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGtdGY7OxQM

42. Manny Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    All in all, a decent start by Pedro. The first 4 innings were very impressive and show a lot of promise… If he can pitch like that in 5 or 6 innings, then we got ourselves a great 5th starter! Yesterday, it was a Moyer-ish outing (with more Ks) but the fact that he pitched so well for the first 4 innings shows that there’s room to improve.

    I also thought we were gonna throw Moyer out there last night with the big lead, and save Chan Ho for tomorrow or whatever…

43. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 9:42 am

    Manny that would have made more sense. More drama too.

44. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Moyer just threw a bullpen session yesterday.. so he wasn’t available for the game last night.

    Pedro should only get sharper as the season goes along.. Despite how good or how bad the numbers were.. Pedro clearly looked more challanging to hitters than Moyer has looked lately. And Moyer has been giving up WAY too many hits

    I’m not ready to name Pedro the savior, but he’s clearly a better option than Moyer, and gives you a better chance to win ballgames

45. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Repeat.. how old are you? If you dont mind…

46. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 9:57 am

    Did you go to Girard College Highschool.

47. The Original Chuck P Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    I’m happy that Pedro got the win and it looked like he had good stuff… a decent fastball tailing away from righthanders and a solid changeup. The Cubs were fouling off a lot of pitches and were pretty patient with him and he still managed to keep them in check. His breaking pitch was a little inconsistent but it looked really good at times. If he can keep his changeup down, he’ll be just fine… he did give up a lot of fly balls and line drives and you have to wonder how that will translate at CBP.

    Listen, I’m really happy with the performance and I think that Pedro deserves the nod over Moyer (if you’re going with a 5 man rotation, he’s gotta be the odd man out right now) but it’s pretty clear that there’s a double standard… 5 innings pitched, 7H and 3 ER is nothing to write home about. In one breath, you crucify Moyer for not going deep and not having an acceptable ERA and being a lucky pitcher and the next you give Pedro the Ashburn for pitching an average game.

    Ex-pitchers, our starting lineup went 14 for 36… 7 for 11 with RISP. I would have probably given the Ashburn to Jimmy… but then again, people on here don’t like Jimmy, either. His 3 run homerun after Piniella made the pitching change to turn him around changed the complexion of the game.

48. Chuck Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:04 am

    Manny…..it was sort of Moyer-ish except that Pedro’s fastball was in the low 90’s a lot of the time and it had more movement on it.

49. Chuck Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    I really wonder if Pedro did as well as he did because of the run support or if he would have been ineffective if it was 2-1 for awhile or if the Cubs had the lead. There is no question that he had to benefit at least a little from the offensive outburst.

50. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:17 am

    And yet ironically when Moyer was at his worst…say two and three months ago, he was receiving the highest run support in the game. Go figure.

    I think Pedro definitely benefited from the run support. He said he was more willing to attack the zone because he had the big lead.

51. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:17 am

    The lead helped. It helps all pitchers. But the umps in both games seem to be allergic to the inside corner. If ump gave inside to Pedro he might of had
    10 K’s

52. Terrence Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    Pedro will likely be better better Tuesday at home vs D-Backs. Hey, it was his first start in about a year on the road in a hostile environment which like chucking beer at opposing players. Nice job Pedro. He will likely get better as he gets more comfortable. And like seriously put Bruntlett on waivers. Made an error on groundball which would go on to allow 2 runs both unearned for durbin. he stinks. And oh michael taylor hit for cycle last with night going 5 for 5 (single, 2 doubles, triple, homerun) with 4rbis.

53. Maverick Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    anyone else catch the ESPN feed of last nights game? they kept showing moyer throughout the game and interjecting comments on the move to send him to the pen…

    at one point they showed Hamels, Lee, Happ, and Blanton all sitting together…then panned over to moyer who was by himself…. it was like ESPN was trying to make this story bigger than it is..

54. Maverick Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Repeat! everytime i see your name it makes me think of Supertroopers.

55. Manny Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    I was a little surprised too when I saw Pedro getting the Ashburn (5IP, 3ER is not that great, AND the really meaningful thing yesterday was our offense finally waking up). I would’ve given the Ashburn to Jimmy, who was amazing yesterday. He really got it going with that 3-run blast and being patient at the plate…. plus the little dugout conversation with pre-HR Rauuuul is the icing on the cake.

56. Jeff Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    First off I am so happy that the Cubs signed Alfonsa to that huge contract. We almost did. He is now off the juice. I bet you his name is on that list. It will come out someday. He is a joke. A horrible fielder and no so powerful at the plate anymore. They have years of fun with him left. LOL. Pedro did something that Moyer cant do. Strikeout hitters. I feel we have more of a chance from him to win a ballgame. The Cubs would have had 8 or 9 runs off of Moyer last night. I am happy with his first game and it will get better.

57. Chuck Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    Still……5 Ks in 5 innigs isn’t too shabby. Lost in all the Pedro-hype…..Chan Ho Park looked GREAT!!

58. The Original Chuck P Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    Thanks for the update Terrence…

    You have to be excited about Taylor and Brown…

59. Maverick Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Hey… Moyer can still K batters…. this year he’s averaging around 4ks per 9 innings pitched.

60. Miles Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    I understand the Pedro hype and I’m pumped we got the win but there is no way you can give the ashburn to Pedro. I mean I know it’s not a big deal, but Shane and Jimmy were the heroes of this one. Heck, Kyle Kendrick could have probably been out there and we would have won last night.

    It ended up being the perfect night for the Phils to test out Pedro with all of the runs we put up. Some of you are getting a little too impressed with his strikeouts though. Strikeouts don’t win games. Neither does a fastball with higher velocity. I hope Pedro can get better in the next few starts because 5 innings and 3 ER can’t cut it in a close game.

61. Mazinman Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Honestly, in the long term this debate between Pedro and Jamie won’t matter much. Unless someone has a complete meltdown or there is an unfortunate injury in the last month and a half the playoff rotation, assuming we get there, will be Lee, Hamels, Blanton, and Happ. Both Pedro and Jamie will need to go to the bullpen if they want to continue helping the team.

62. christopher Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    pedro for the ashburn over victorino is ridiculous. pedro had a nice debut and pitched an okay game with a lot of promise. victorino was far far more deserving though. either way, great win.

63. Miles Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    youre definitely right about that mazin….Cole is who we really need to focus on.

64. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    It’s not the #k’s but rather the potential to get k’s in key spots. That’s what Pedro brings if he stays healthy. Every pitchers gets into jams, and that’s why u need to have the stuff to get k’s. I love Moyer;but the Cubs would’ve eaten him alive. Especally with him being a lefty. Moyer will get more starts this yr. Rainouts, Dbl headers, long relief and so on. Again, Pedro in the pen if we make the post season will be huge.

65. Mostone Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    My favorite comment from the Chicago Sun Times this AM:

    “The real problem is that the idiot fan who threw the beer probably has a better arm than 3/4 of the Cubs pitching staff”

66. The Little Guy Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    After reading all the above comments on this fine Thursday morning, i believe Don M hit the nail right on the head. Forget the numbers, era, whatever, Pedro bottom line, challanges the hitters and strikes at least a little fear in their eyes, where as Moyer, its like batting practice for them.

    Look you people saying that the difference in an 82 mph Fastball with a 93 mph Fastball is overrated and a non-issue are dead wrong.

    91-93 mph with movement, along with an 78-82 mph change up which Pedro throws sounds a lot like Cole Hamels, and he did alright last year in the playoffs correct? Pedro also throws a biting slider and a sweeping curve, so hitters also have that in his head.

    Moyer feasted on young hitters who get im-patient with him because he throws non-stop slop up there, and than they give in and swing at his pitches. Did you all notice when veteran MLB clubs take his crap and swing at whatever he throws over the plate, he gets banged around like a screen door in a hurricane.

67. Miles Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Little Guy, I’m not trying to compare Jamie vs. Pedro I’m just trying to be objective about the guy’s start. I know you weren’t addressing me with your post but I am just trying to give my take.

    Pedro does have a live fastball and some good movement on his pitches, but the fact is that he still gave up 3 runs on 7 hits in 5 innings and it certainly could have been worse than that if not for some balls that were hit right at people. So obviously he has something going for him with his arsenal, but there are some blatant holes in his game right now, with his stamina being the most glaring one. If he can stretch out his arm a little bit and be effective into the 6th inning, he will be just fine.

68. The Little Guy Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:38 am

    Miles, i know, i was just saying.

    Your right, 99 pitches in 5 ips is no good, but if he can stretch his arm out, and be able to get hitters out while not allowing them to continually foul off pitches in a given at-bat, ala Cole Hamels

69. Maverick Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:38 am

    We all know the Phils have a knack for winning individual awards…

    I just realized we now have last years NL and AL comeback players of the year. Lee & Lidge.

    Its possible we can have another this year if Pedro makes a strong comeback.

    One thing I liked hearing was that Pedro lost the desire to prepare to play when he was on the Muts… He has that back….. preperation is key for pitchers…i’m hoping that translates into Ks and wins

70. The Original Chuck P Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    Mazin… absolutely right. Regardless of which pitcher you pick to be our #5 starter, it’s irrelevant in October. I don’t really expect either of these guys to be lights out… just give us a chance to win and know your role when the time comes. Cole needs to get it together…. that was the biggest reason why I thought that some sort of 6 man rotation (keeping Lee, Blanton and maybe Happ on normal rest) would be beneficial. If Hamels needs extra rest, we need to give it to him.

    I do hope that Pedro doesn’t cause a ruckus when his time to take a secondary role comes.

71. Chuck Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    With all the hype surrounding Pedro’s first start and the fact that he did pretty well…..good live fastball, effective changeup, 5 Ks over 5 innings, escaped serious damage, etc……you knew he would get the Ashburn….and why shouldn’t he?? That’s not to take anything away from Shane’s game at all. It’s just that it makes sense in this case.

72. Jeff Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Your wrong Miles. Pedro is one of the greatest pitchers in our generation. So dominating for so many years. He was not the same pitcher with the Mets. Struggled so much with them. Then after not pitching for over a year. His first start against a big league team and he held his own. Very impressive. Get Moyer out of your head already. My friend John is a die hard Dodger fan. He is so upset we took Moyer out. Loves when he pitches. That should tell you something.

73. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 11:54 am

    Thats what Pedro showed last night: That he gives you a better chance to win than Moyer. Maybe not MUCH more, but certaintly more. He was throwing well, ranging from 89-93 mostly with a 94 slipped in there. His fastball still runs back over the plate like it used to, something which maybe only one or two pitchers in baseball history could do better.

    Nolan Ryan just threw straight cheese, with not as great movement but Maddux was probably better at moving and locating the fastball like that than Pedro. But other than that Pedro is one of the best ever at doing that. Especially against RH hitters, to start it outside and then run it back over the plate and get a swing and miss or a called 3rd strike. Thats why the best pitch in baseball will always be a moving, well located fastball. So dangerous. I was really happy to see that Pedro is still great at moving the ball around like that.

    He was overthrowing sometimes and did throw too many pitches but that always happens when someone is making their first start back or their first major league start or first big start, etc. Ive seen that a lotta times. a lot of 3 ball counts, a lot of full counts, etc. He will be more efficient next time out.

74. The Original Chuck P Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    You’re right, Chuck… given the circumstances, Pedro was almost guaranteed the Ashburn (as long as he didn’t blow up). Jimmy probably deserved it though… his homerun was the catalyst.

75. Bob Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Why the hell is the thread being used by some people to bash Moyer? He is out of the rotation, people got what they wanted!!

    More importantly, Pedro looked pretty good last night stuff wise. The location and stamina should come with time. If he goes 5IP 3ER on Tuesday, I wanna see the Moyer haters out to get Pedro. There is certainly a double standard here.

76. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    LG you’re right. I’m trying to get not to get too exicted here. But his fb is just as lively as Cole’s. But his moves more than ’s Cole’s and Pedro’s command of the off-spped speeches appears to better as well. It’ll be nice to have some sort of an insurance plan if Cole continues to go South. Did you see Cole’s face in the 9th inn when Happ threw that gem. against CO. It wasn’t a look of “Ok Philly, I’m struggling but I’ll show why I was NLCS/WS MVP. It was kinda sad. Maybe that’s a reach,but Cole looks a little lost right now.

77. beta sigma shag Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    I was a little off on the runs Pedro would give up, but a great start, he pitched 4 innings of decent ball, got hit a little, a few K’s, but just like all his rehab starts he is done after four innings, if he did not get the run support he would not have gone five innings, he lost total comand of his pitches in the fith inning, this is why he should be in the pen, because of his potential to K guys, and if Moyer pitched last night he would have went 6 or 7 with that lead. And what up side are you guys talking about, in the last five years Pedro has been a 5 -6 inning pitcher, has had more injuries than Moyer, and if 5-6 innings and 3 runs is what you want out of you 5th starter that is what you had.
    I know all you like to hate Moyer cause he does not strike fear in the batters and dosnt throw 98 mph, Pedro got up to 93 like twice, for the most part he was 87 88 mph.
    I will eat a little crow cause I predicted Pedro would give up 6 runs in 5 innings on 10 hits, instead he only gave up 7 hits and three runs, but he is only a 5 inning pitcher.
    Pedro for the Asburn is an insult to ever player on the team, JWreth had two hits in one inning so did Peter Happy, Vic with a homer and a triple, Howard for a triple. come on really Pedro Martinez whom ever picks that award needs to pass the joint over please

78. Repeat! Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    pitches

79. Chuck Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    I hope he’s more effecient next time out, cause it’s Tuesday and I’m gonna be there. I’m STOKED!!

    You’re right, Geoff….a moving fastball put in the right location IS the most dangerous pitch. And Pedro still has the ability to throw that enough of the time to be successful enough to be in this rotation.

80. Miles Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    Jeff, YOU need to get Jamie out of YOUR head. I never even mentioned the guy’s name except to say that I WASN”T comparing the two. Where did I say anything about having Jamie pitch instead of Pedro? Aside from that, you know that everything I said is true. Pedro pitched ok. If you think he pitched any better than that you are not being objective. If we would have lost the game 3-0 everyone would not be in such a jovial mood.

    There is no need to keep bashing Moyer at this point. He is out of the rotation, so you should be happy. But just because I have backed Jamie in the past doesn’t mean that I’m not allowed to critique Pedro.

81. beta sigma shag Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Miles you are one of the only ones makeing sense, I know I am not being consistant, cause I really just dont like Pedro, like most of the people in here hate Jamie, but the guy pitched 5 innings, and gave up 3 runs, and there is no way he could have gone more innings, did you see the 5th inning, why didn’t he have another rehab start so he could be more ready to show what he has, I know I have a fondness for Jamie, and still think he is as good a 5th starter as you would need on this team. But the love for a guy who barley went 5 innings with an 11 run lead, I just dont get it, shows how much the people in here just hate Moyer which I just do not get

82. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Apparently Moyer going to the pen hurt him financially pretty big. Can’t say I totally blame him for being pissed.

    This is from Jayson Stark on ESPN Insider.

    “When Jamie Moyer said this week he was ‘disheartened’ by the Phillies’ decision to bounce him from the rotation, he clearly wasn?t talking about the state of his checking account. But this was, nevertheless, a decision that figures to cost Moyer a little spending money. He was on pace to make 32 starts and pitch 181 innings this year had he stayed in the rotation. And if he’d done that, the escalator clauses in his contract would have boosted his base pay next season from $6.5 million to $10.5 million. He also would have stood to earn an extra $1 million in innings-pitched incentives for this season. So this was a move that didn’t just hurt Moyer’s pride. It also hit him directly in the wallet.”

83. Chuck Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    beta sigma….I don’t HATE Moyer….BUT…..I do understand why Pedro got the Ashburn….

    There was so much hype surrounding this start….and he did ok….infact BETTER than Moyer.

    And…you’re wrong…..his fastball was clocked at over 90mph MORE than “like twice.”

84. Mike D. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    The jury is still out on Pedro Martinez. I THINK that he gave up those last two runs because of how long he sat on the bench during that eight-run fifth, and he looked good before that, but let’s wait for another couple starts before we pass judgment on him.

    And let’s be nice to Jamie, please? The man is a human being and has done a lot for us. Decry his performance, but some of the people here are just terrible to him. Come on guys, he helped win us a World Series!

85. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    i hit nails on heads, like whoa

86. Chuck Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    For the record, I LIKE Jamie Moyer….and I appreciate ALL that he’s done for the Phillies, for baseball, for the community, for his family.

    BUT…..this move HAD to be made….AND Pedro did a decent enough job to warrant another few starts.

    I hope Moyer succeeds in his new role. We need help in the pen so if Moyer can give a little there, then great.

87. JoeFan Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Dipsy, if you’re there – is the monster done resting now? I hope the Phightins have some offense left for today’s game.

88. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    so if he gets paid every other week… his paychecks will be $250,000 before taxes or $175,000.00 or so after taxes

    but that was taking out 30% … with all his kids he probably pays less than that.

    how can one function with so little money coming-in???

    …

    BUT.. Yesterday, Todd Zolecki? was on DNL and said that Moyer came to the ballpark focused, and said he was excited and ready to help this team in his new role … his comments on Tuesday were just something he needed to get off his chest, and he was just being honest. ..

    I’m still a Moyer fan.. we still need him to be effective in whatever role he has

89. Justin Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    I want to throw a beer on all of Chicago.

    Does anyone else have that strange feeling that because of the spectacular run support, we are still waiting on what Pedro can really do? It’s a W, yay, but I’m concerned that the anticipation of what Pedro can really do ain’t over.

90. timb Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    CHP – MVP ??

    He has been the consistent bullpen guy this year, something I think we as the Nation undervalue. He would be in my top 5 vote for Phillies MVP thus far. Anyone agree?

91. Miles Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Yeah honestly I’m sure the money plays into his comments, but as Don M noted its not like he’s making the league minimum.

    The funny thing about his comments is that you know that the overwhelming majority of players who get demoted in a similar fashion are thinking the same thing but they don’t say it.

    I don’t have high hopes for him out of the bullpen at all, but I guess you never know. He will probably make two more starts on days that we have doubleheaders, so he will still be involved. However we get through the rest of the season, if we make the playoffs you have to believe Pedro will be an effective reliever at that point. That is my main hope for Pedro.

92. LH Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Don M thanks for the CC fan update. Yes, it’s usually an ejection but there is the possibility of a stronger penalty.
    MLB official wording: Major League Baseball rules require that fans not go onto the field, throw objects onto the field or interfere with balls in play. Violation will result in immediate ejection and/or arrest and prosecution.

93. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    Well Justin, maybe the next time Chicago burns down you can put out the flames with all the beer you can buy.

94. 4daysrest.com Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    We have created a wanted poster on behalf of Shane Victorino. We invite you to check it out.

95. Miles Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    timb, I don’t know about MVP because he did suck it up big time and lose us a few games early on. He has certainly been worth the money, though, so big props to Ruben on bringing him in. If you combine his work in the pen with Happ’s work in the rotation, that’s an MVP combo right there.

96. Chuck Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Heard the same thing about Moyer’s new found focus. He’ll be fine…..whatever he does.

    Not sure if I could function with ONLY $175,000 coming in EVERY OTHER WEEK.

    Today: Cliff Lee!! = 8+ innings = PHILLIES SWEEP!!

97. JoeFan Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    Check this out, the Chicago Tribune rips the beer throwing guy…. with the caption ‘Cub fans don’t throw beer on opposing outfielders this guy’s a jerk’. Here’s the link:

    http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-sports-in-haiku/2009/08/jerks-in-haiku-the-beer-thrower-exposed.html

98. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    What could they charge him with.. ASSAULT? (for throwing an object)… Im sure he would plead guilty.. do some community service and everyone wins?

99. Ed R. Says:
    August 13th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Colin Cowherd ripped the guy who threw the beer during his daily show.

100. The Little Guy Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

     If that was in Citizens Bank the fan would be crucified by the National Media.

101. Joe Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

     For the folks saying that Moyer would have won this game, that is no guarantee. When Moyer gets hit, he gets knocked around and he could just as easily given up 8 runs and this laugher becomes a tight game. Same goes for Brutal Bruntlett. Not sure why the love fest with him. There has got to be a better replacement for him (Miguel Cairo?) I am still on the fence about Pedro. He looked like he was exhausted after 5, which is not good, even for your first game back. I wish him well because he is a Phillie, but until he helps hoist the next world series trophy, I am not sure I can remove him from my Mets most hated list (which is all of them).

102. Chuck Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

     The guy DID make an accurate throw with that beer, though. Pretty amazing.

     Good thing Vic had the presence of mind to catch the ball.

103. Mazinman Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

     Exactly what I thinking when I wrote that Chuck and Miles. Hamels is the real key int he starting rotation right now. Lee, Happ, and Blanton seem solid enough going into the playoffs for where they are expected to pitch. Hamels need to be more consistant if the team wants to win in October again. All the attention that has been generated from this situation with Pedro and Jamie has been a positive for Cole since it has kept many from shifting the spotlight on him. That won’t last for long, however. Soon everyone will realize that Pedro/Jamie is only a side show. The real questions are Cole and Brad.

104. Don M Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

     Vic actually had a good quote too

     “…it was perfect timing, it was right as the ball was hitting my glove,” Victorino said. “I tip my hat off to the guy, he had good timing but he had to leave the park and it’s one of those things we can’t have happen.”
     ….

105. Miles Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

     Joe you must not frequent this site if you believe there is a “lovefest” involving us and Bruntlett. We have been creating new ways to make fun of him for months now. He is definitely the worst position player in the league right now and I dare anyone to find someone worse.

106. Brett Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

     As far as the MVP talk goes, I think Victorino really oughte be high up in the consideration. He has the highest average on the team, is among league leaders in hits, and has been hitting at a ridiculous pace for most of the season. A month ago I might have said Ibanez, but it seems like he’s coming down to Earth. Maybe Howard’ll start producing soon and we can begin to hear the annual NL MVP chatter.

     In a world without Albert Pujols, I think Victorino would be in the running for league MVP without a doubt.

107. Joe Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

     Miles, I didnt mean the love fest on the board, I know everyone feels as I do about Bruntlett. I meant the love fest with the phillies keeping him on the team….

108. Mike D. Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

     I agree, Little Guy. I was saying at the bar last night “why is it that no one remarks on anyone doing that unless it happens in Philly?” There’d be headlines all over ESPN for it.

109. Geoff Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

     ESPN is not a legitimate news outlet. A few guys who work for ESPN are reliable (Stark) but most of ESPN is mega biased. Most of it is fluff now: like force feeding NBA Players’ Twitter posts on you non stop. I cant watch stuff liek that.

110. Az Mike Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

     Jamie Moyer was a great Phillie and is a wonderful man. He did a lot to help win the WS last year as did Brad Lidge, but this is another season. I really liked Little Guy’s comment about Moyer – “When hitters take his crap and swing only at what he throws over the plate, he gets banged around like a screen door in a hurricane.” One more time for NJ – “When Jamie Moyer is not in the starting rotation, I’m happy”. It also sounds like it will save the Phils a lot of escalator clause money this year and next that they can use for more pressing needs. Lets keep the Offense Rolling so we can keep Lidge out of the games.

111. Maverick Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

     Miles…. i tried to take you up on your dare….and I had no luck…Bruntlett is truly horrible… but i never realized how horrible…

     Not only does every position player have a higher BA.. So does just about every NL Pitcher!

     Even Jamie Moyer has an OBP 67 points higer than Bruntlett.

     He must be a great fielder than right?..nope.. 6 Errors already in only the few games he’s been in….

     Can someone explain how this guy has a spot on the 25 man roster? i’m mystified..

112. Chuck Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

     He’s on this roster because So Taguchi isn’t.

113. Bob Says:
     August 13th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

     So Taguchi seems like Mickey Mantle compared to Bruntlett

114. Brian of CO Says:
     August 14th, 2009 at 1:15 am

     Some of you guys are funny, you really are. Some of you say “I am a Moyer fan” then you say Pedro had a “great start” because he was a whopping 5 innings with 3 ER’s. Yet the day before bashing Moyer because he goes 5 innings and gives up 3 ER’s and sucks. Not to out do yourself and the idiotic contradictory comments tyou have to say “well Moyer would have given up 8 runs thats a fact.” Heres a thought guys, try truth. Did Pedro have an effective outing? Yes, would Moyer have given up more run? There is no way to tell, and if you say yes, you clearly dont know anything about baseball. i.e who would have thought that the Marlins would have gotten swept by the freaking Nationals, then come back and sweep us! Fact is most of you HATE and yes I say HATE Moyer with a passion. i.e “As long as Moyer is out of the rotation I am happy” No I didnt say that, unlike some of you, I want the best chance to win, regardless of if it is Moyer or Pedro, where some of you would rather have Pedro in because he isnt Moyer. Thats a fact. Also, Moyer was not at his worst 2 or 3 months ago, he was at his worst In April. His April and earlly May ERA was ATROCIOUS at over 7, from 20th of May his ERA was 4.40. He did cut his ERA almost in half. That just shows how completely ineffective Moyer was in April and Early May. Also Moyer got great run support of 7+ runs on a few times, not every win. If Pedro can get back into shape and last at LEAST 6 innings, Great signing. If he is consistent 5 innings no more, what was the point. Its too early to call this successfull. I hope it works out.

Leave a Reply