Phillies Nation

132 Responses to “J.A. Happ to the Bullpen: Good Idea/Bad Idea”

1. Stuart Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 8:17 am

   Terrible idea. Especially with the way our other starting pitchers have been inconsistent. He is one of the few that has been pitching good almost every outing. We need him in our starting rotation.

2. Rick in MA Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 8:19 am

   It seems to me that it’s time for Jamie to start thinking about hanging them up. He’s become so dependent on the umpire’s strike zone being enormous that it’s very painful to watch him when it’s not.

   Last night was a perfect example. That umpire was not calling anything on the corners and look what happened. I don’t know how many times he was ahead of a hitter 0-2 or even 1-2 and ended up either giving up a hit or a walk. It was often though. Garrett Atkins homerun was a perfect example. He was down 0-2 when Jamie served him.

   Through it all though, he does have the most wins on the staff right now. I think it’s mostly due to ridiculous run support though. Although he did pitch really well in July.

3. Rick in MA Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 8:19 am

   Woops meant to post that under the post game wrap. Oh well…

4. Rick in MA Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 8:22 am

   J.A. should definitely remain in the rotation. He’s been pitching better and more consistently than Cole throughout the year to this point.

5. Jeff of NoVa. Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 8:25 am

   After watching last night’s game I think we all know who should go to the pen

6. Jeff Dowder Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 8:36 am

   I’m only have confidence in Lee, Happ, and Blanton at this point. Hamels is having a bad season, Moyer has been awful, and Pedro was washed up three years ago. Since Amaro is so enamored with Pedro, it may be time for Moyer to be persuaded to come down with a mysterious “injury”. He could take the rest of the month off and come back when the rosters expand in September. It doesn’t look like Jamie has any interest in retiring, and I don’t think the Phillies want to take the PR hit by releasing him.

7. Keith E Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 8:36 am

   Happ will be back in no time at all. The Pedro experiment won’t produce another starter. The big picture for Happ is the next ten years not the next ten weeks like Pedro is looking toward. Happ will wait this out with the same professional attitude that he took when he out pitched Park in spring training and was sent to the pen. As for the psyche aspect. The bottom line is you’re drawing an MLB paycheck or you’re not drawing one. Learn to handle adversity and pitch where needed and enjoy a longer career.
   GO PHILLIES!!!

8. Philly Texan Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 9:09 am

   Yeah, it’s a terrible idea.

   I think a lot depends on Happ’s start tonight. If Happ pitches well, it will be impossible to put him in the pen. Charlie would never remove a hot starting pitcher. But if Happ struggles, it will make three straight rough starts and provide the excuse they need to turn to Pedro.

9. Greg V. Says:
   August 5th, 2009 at 9:19 am

   Happ is a horse out there! Putting him in the pen would be a horrible mistake! I’m sorry I love Jamie Moyer. He’ll always be a hero to me. But let’s be honest here. We are a contending team and when it comes time for that spot in the rotation, if you ask me who I would march out there, it would be Happ. I think Moyer would agree as well. I’m not sure what is to be done with Moyer. I don’t see him as a reliever. But it’s important to stick with Happ right now.

10. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 9:36 am

    It is the worst idea i’ve heard all year for Happ to be placed in the bullpen …. he wouldn’t become the Closer, Setup Man, or even a Situational-Lefty … which means he’s a 6th-inning guy

    And as we all know, if you’re going to your bullpen in the 5th-6th innings, its because you are in trouble.. so what does it matter who that guy is?

    The pitcher giving you the best chance to NEED to go to the bullpen in the 5th-6th inning has been Moyer

    And the pitcher giving you the best chance to AVOID going to the bullpen in the 5th-6th innings.. has been Happ (and Blanton…)

    If they put Happ in the bullpen and say that Romero and Durbin aren’t healthy enough to take 6th-7th-8th inning work, I could understand that.. but to put Happ in the bullpen just because “Moyer isn’t a bullpen guy” ??? Is ridiculous

    right now Moyer isn’t a ROTATION GUY either.. and he’s been the most inconsistent pitcher on our staff… his stuff is usually pretty good for 2-3 innings.. so why not let him get those innings, only when needed, from the pen ??

11. Mazinman Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    I think that a six man rotation, assuming Pedro works things out in the minors, would be a great idea. We have a good enough lead, and our six starters would be good enough in caliber, that we could do a six man rotation from here to the beginning of the playoffs. That way all of the starters are well rested by the time the playoffs come.

    Now, as to the topic of Happ in the bullpen, I think its a bit premature as Pedro Martinez still has a lot to prove before being able to put him in as a starter. His last performance suggested to me he might do better in a relief role. Lets see how Happ does tonight and how Pedro does tomorrow and then see what happens.

12. Manny Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    HORRIBLE IDEA. It’s not even an argument, especially after you-know-who was owned last night.

    And even in that case, I’ll still keep Moyer in the rotation UNTIL Pedro proves he can take his spot.

    The top 4 (Lee, Blanton, Hamels, Happ) should stay put. The last spot is still Moyer’s…

    Good points, Don…

13. Geoff Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 9:51 am

    Um, we shouldnt be talking about JA Happ to the bullpen. Anybody that would send him to the bullpen in place of kicking Moyer out of the rotation (if that is indeed the choice) is INSANE – including the Phillies management staff.

    You saw what Moyer did last night at home against a good offense with one of the most respected home plate umpires in all of baseball calling balls and strikes. Just total embarrassment.

    To take a sometimes good but mostly mediocre or worse old man over a young mid-rotation starter whos just now coming into his own is an absolutely horrible decision. If theyre going to send Happ to the bullpen they might as well have just traded him away for something. If they indeed do this, it could make Happ one of the most mismanaged talents the Phillies have EVER had.

    Rodrigo Lopez also showed us last night why he hasnt pitched out of the bullpen – like ever. To ask him to do something so unfamiliar was a blunder. If Lopez isnt going to be in the rotation he should be sent down to AAA or waiver-traded for a utility Infielder or relief pitcher.

    I expect Jamie Moyer to be released or retire allowing Pedro Martinez to take his spot in the rotation. He cant really be any worse. Ja Happ holds onto his spot in the rotation while the old man steps aside. You obviously cant use Moyer out of the bullpen, so it would be the end of the road at least on this team for Jamie. Hed either be waiver-traded or released or retire. I still think the Phillies will send Happ to the pen for some reason and stubbornly keep Moyer in there, but that is completely insane and backwards from every single baseball perspective.

14. Geoff Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    Im not for a 6-man rotation either if two of the pitchers are Moyer and Pedro. Thats enough of a strain on the bullpen. But consider Hamels isnt himself and one of the other guys could occasionally have a bad start and thats an extreme tax on teh bullpen. If you wanna do that you shoudl go out and waiver-trade for about 3 more relief pitchers because youre going to need them when there are 3 more injured members of the bullpen that wont come back in time for the postseason.

15. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    6-man rotation means that Cliff Lee, Joe Blanton, etc.. pitch LESS .. that’s not smart .. I would be in favor of a 4-man rotation before I would be of a 6-man

16. Manny Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    I agree…the 6-man rotation is a bad, bad idea especially when Pedro and Moyer and Hamels will RARELY give you more than 6…

    —

    Interesting thing about Moyer: Each year, Moyer can make 1.5M in incentives… maybe the team wants to saves those 3M? Yet another argument to prefer Happ over Moyer in the rotation…

17. CZ Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Food for thought – JA Happ has the 12th best fastball in all of baseball per Fangraphs.com. Cliff Lee comes in at 18th. Very interesting data. We all know Happ has been outperforming his ‘peripherals’ for a while now and likely is due for a rockier second half but this data suggests he is very much for real despite that fact.

    Best FB in all of baseball? Jarrod Washburn

18. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    Bad idea…..

    1) Happ has been fairly consistent, even though he has gotten roughed up the past two starts and his wins were against teams that basically suck.

    2) Moyer’s role needs to be re-thought. Why not put HIM in the pen if it comes to that. Yeah, the spot is his to lose and last night is an indication that that time may be coming ever closer.

    3) Pedro……PLEASE…..the man hasn’t thrown a major league pitch since last year. He deserves to start right away? I don’t think so.

    4) I agree….Lopez was horrible last night out of the pen. Is that really HIS role or is he better as a starter. Based on what has happened so far, I am going with the latter.

    This rotation should be:

    Lee
    Hamels
    Blanton
    Happ
    Moyer/Lopez

19. CZ Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Also – Hamels last year had the best Change in all of baseball…this year it is currently ranked 29th! His FB has also declined dramatically. Not that any of us couldn’t tell that with our own two eyes. In fact Joe Blanton is the one on the staff who’s Changeup has performed best (13th). Not suprisingly Tim Lincecum has far and away the best changeup in baseball this year.

20. Miles Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Once again Geoff, you fail to put any perspective on this situation. You can’t say that there is no way Pedro would be worse than Jamie, that’s ludicrous. The guy just gave up 5 runs in a AAA game and that’s the only game he has pitched in above single A since sometime last year. Jamie, on the other end, has been bad but has a respectable ERA since the beginning of June (remember his performances against Florida and Arizona since the break). Pedro could DEFINITELY be worse than Jamie. Until he proves himself at AAA, I don’t understand why the Phillies would even consider him right now.

    A 6 man rotation doesn’t make sense considering you just got Cliff Lee. That’s like trading for Longoria and benching him once a week. The Phils need Lee and Blanton out there every 5th day. The other three days should include Happ and Hamels and then frankly I don’t give a damn what they do with the other spot. BUT, to those who think that Jamie is so bad that Pedro could not possibly be any worse….you may be disappointed.

21. Geoff Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    The problem is that if Pedro is worse than Jamie that means BOTH of them cant be in the rotation. Lopez isnt really good enough either once he was figured out. So youd either have to call someone up or hope Myers can come back or waiver-trade for some cheap rental who can hold down the 5th spot for like 5 starts.

    Then all of a sudden ALL THAT excess pitches isnt really excess at all, its a paucity. Every time the media comes out and says a team has excess pitching (like the local Philly media did last week) then things happen and all of a sudden they dont have enough pitching.

    Moyer has been so abd that itd be hard for Pedro to be worse, but if he is, which is entirely possible, then NIETHER of them is an option. Then Lopez isnt an option. Myers wont be stretched out in time to come back presumably (but hes pitching a sim game this week, maybe even today, so it depends how many pitches he gets). If Brett Myers battles back from yet another kind of setback again, Id have to think about re-signing him for a hometown discount, or at least trying to. I know they have Drabek waiting in the wings but its hard to let a proven major league starting pitching walk away.

22. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    Lee-Blanton-Hamels-Happ-Moyer until Martinez can show us more. Martinez should replace Moyer.

    how could anyone seriously put Martinez/Moyer back to back. It’s suicide for the bull pen. They’ll all end up back on the DL.

23. CZ Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:46 am

    I think we do have to break down Pedro’s start a bit though and look at more than just the result. He only allowed 4 earned runs and 3 of those came in the 5th inning when he clearly ran out of gas. The first pitch of the game went for a home run but he was almost spotless between then and the the 5th innning. His velocity was good he was getting swings and misses. To me, he just needs more conditioning and to work his armstrength up to 6-7 innings. Then there is no doubt in my mind that he has more potential and a higher upside than Moyer.

    I love Moyer, I respect him for what he done and meant to this team. Specifically his ability to mentor the other pitchers on the staff. I think we see results of that when Happ goes out on the mound. However, his numbers in July are skewed by the fact that he faced some teams that he feats on (DBacks & Marlins) and team that couldn’t hit my grandmother at the time (Mets). This team needs to put the guy on the mound that gives them the best chance to win – and in the end if that hurts someone’s feelings so be it. Pedro deserves a shot to start so we can see what we have. 1-4 have to remain set (Lee, Blanton, Hamels, Happ) but 5 may remain a revolving door. I say just keep going with the hot hand…whomever that may be.

24. Joe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Moyer and Pedro both need to be spot starters or relievers as the situation deems necessary. The big 4 needs to remain intact.

25. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Ok…I can see the argument that Pedro needs to be evaluated to see what we have. IF he gets a start, it HAS to be against a lousy team. The next five series after this weekend with the Marlins are against the Cubs (NO), the Braves (MAYBE), D-Backs (YES), Mets (MAYBE…certainly would be interesting) and Pirates (YES).

    After that possible start we see what we have in him and go from there. Certainly the schedule will be tough from the perspective of no days off for awhile starting on Aug 18th so using him like that wouoldn’t hurt the rest of the rotation.

26. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:01 am

    What time is Pedro’s start today in Reading?

27. Geoff Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Moyer gave up 9 runs in only a few innings vs the pirates 2 years ago.

28. The Original Chuck P Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    Could Charlie go with a 6 man rotation but alternate the 5/6 guys (and occasionally rest the other guys)?

    That is, one week go with:

    Hamels
    Lee
    Blanton
    Happ
    Martinez (Moyer out of pen)

    The next week go with

    Hamels
    Lee
    Blanton
    Happ
    Moyer (Martinez out of pen)

29. Georgie Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    psujoe, Reading game starts at 7:05 tonight, but the weather looks a bit questionable.

30. LH Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Good pros and cons but I believe Pedro is the better choice for the pen. Pedro doesn’t look like he’s ready, even for the pen, for another week or maybe two after he’s shellacking in AAA. Is there waiver deal that is being decided? Is the Phil’s staff willing to wait with their current worried about the bull pen? Lopez was left to play another inning last night because Charlie may have taken a page from La Russo’s playbook that some games are unattainable and better to save the relief for another day. I like that Charlie is able to bend with his regular philosophy, that the offense can always come back, when a different trend like the bullpen presents itself. Should we lose a quality starter to fill the pen’s vacuum? Charlie has shown that he values respect and will leave Happ in his current position because he has earned it. Let’s see how the games are play out over the next two weeks. We got lucky last night with a Florida loss. The heat will begin to be felt unless our team’s starters and offense can delay management’s decision with victories, (or loses by mediocre contenders), until injuries heal and real relief arrives in mid-August.

31. Aaron Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    maybe they should put Moyer and Happ in the Pen so when Martinez starts and goes 4 innings, Moyer could pitch 2 and Happ could pitch the other 3 lol. Unrealistic but funny idea.

32. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    Basically, with that kind of alternating, it sort of like saying that Moyer and Pedro are spot starters/long relievers. Not such a bad thing with the schedule being demanding with no days off.

33. The Original Chuck P Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    I think that Pedro would benefit from the extra time off (might not be ready to go 7 innings in back to back starts)… and Moyer would accept that role. Plus, with Cole not being Cole and Happ still learning the ropes, you would expect that those guys might require an extra few days off down the stretch. You throw one of those guys in and hopefully, get everyone 100% for the playoffs.

34. CZ Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    You can’t really do that because you have to hold a roster spot for that 6th guy who isn’t even pitching. He could be used in the bullpen in the interim I guess but it just doesn’t make sense. Unfortunately the writing is on the wall for Happ’s move to the pen. They painted themselves into a corner with Moyer. They are paying him too much to not pitch. Plus, he can’t just be sent to the minors at their convenience – he would have to accept that type of move – and he is NOT a bullpen type pitcher. Think of all of the times he’s been smacked around in the first inning – it’s just asking for trouble.

    To top it all off Pedro and Happ are both pitching tonight which aligns Pedro’s regular rest with Happ’s spot in the rotation. Maybe its just a coincidence but it would make it a really smooth transition to just slide Pedro into that spot in a few starts.

35. CZ Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Nice article on Cole – proves he has been VERY unlucky this year – as I’ve been saying for a while.

    http://www.thegoodphight.com/2009/8/5/978193/whats-going-on-with-cole

36. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    CZ, The article is saying that the Defense is to blame. Last time I checked the Phillies Defense is among the best in MLB, with the fewest amount of errors. To me the Article doesnt prove anything.

37. Repeat! Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Sounds like somone is trying get us all worked up for nothing. JA Happ to the PEN? IT’S NOT GOING TO TO “HAPP”-EN!

38. Repeat! Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    minus one TO

39. nationals#1 Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    My sister just saw John mayberry driving south on 476, wonder what he’s going to Philly for?

40. phils_ftw Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Moving Happ to the pen would be a bigger mistake than it was to sign Pedro in the first place.

41. Gavin Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    If Happ pitches well tonight, I dont think he goes to the pen. What I do think you can do is this.

    1) Let Moyer go on the DL (bunyon, the gout, hemorroids) until the Pedro experiment has proven itslef fruitful or not. Or….

    2) You go with a modified 6 man rotation. Pick and choose when Moyer starts. If he doesnt start for a 9 or 10 days he gets some cleanup work for the pen. You could pick and choose which teams you want him to go against (ala FLA) or you can pick and choose which umpires he pitches with.

    He wont be released, sent down, retire…..and they have said he wont go to the pen, I dont see any other solution. If Amaro sends Happ to the pen, I’ll really question his ability to manage the 25 man roster at this point.

    If Happ goes 4 and a third tonight walking 4, giving up 8 hits and 7 runs, then he will be sent to the pen like it or not.

42. JeffK Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Agree w/ Gavin’s first point … put Moyer on the DL until Pedro shows if he has anything left in the tank. That said, can anyone think of the situation where Moyer comes in from the Pen (assuming the Pedro thing works out)?

    I love Moyer as much as the next person, but can anyone confidently say they prefer him in the rotation going into September/October? Or, worse yet, in Game 3/4 of a playoff series?

    Gotta be Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Pedro …

43. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Right or wrong Moyer is not going to get DL’d and he’s not going to the Pen. It’ll be Happ or Martinez based on Pedro’s performance.

44. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Everyone keeps talking about Playoffs this, playoffs that, who is going to win “when” we are in the playoffs. Maybe the team should go back to what they did in the July and play baseball. The offense has done nothing in the last week, the 7 game lead is down to 5 games, and the Marlins are playing the Nationals. If we cant start winning games again, that 5 game lead will slip away to 3. Last season we had a 3 game lead shortly after the All Star break, then did what we are doing now which is lose. Last season it was the Mutts who took over 1st because of that slide, and because they had mastered the art of choking, we took the East. I know for a fact that this team has what it takes to win the NL East, NL and WS, but will they pull out of this slump in time before losing 1st place. All Teams hit slumps, but I am not as certain that if we lose first this year the Marlins will pull a Mets and choke. Lets not get to far ahead of ourselves folks, and “hope” for a third NL East title, then start thinking about Playoffs.

45. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Brian, Relax. Happ gets us back on track tonight. uhm, everyone except Howard of course. Can anyone play first base besides Bruntlett so Howard can get a day off?

46. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    The Offense needs to score runs to get a win. Its not on Happ alone. The Offense needs to get on track also, not just Happ.

47. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Here’s a really good write-up of what a dolt JP Riccardi was in the Halladay “no trade’ tals. What an a$$.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/08/05/bluejays.halladay/index.html

48. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Brian, I know. I just think tonight’s the night(except Howard). I think Happ keeps it close and the team finally busts out. De La Rossa has been hot, he’s lefty, the Phils are slumping. As in stocks sometimes the contrarian play is the correct play.

49. Jeff Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    I just hope Pedro gives up ten runs tonight. I dont want him on this team. Keep Happ in the rotation. Throw Moyer out in the garbage. BRING UP DRABEK BABY….Number five. Learn from Lee and he will not do any worse then Old Man Moyer. Did you hear Atkins on the Rockies station after the game. Moyer is so much fun to hit off of. Its like batting practice. LOL Quoted from his mouth.

50. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Dobbs can play 1B….Chris Coste could….but……..

51. The Original Chuck P Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    So it sounds pretty clear to me that there are two factions: one which believes Moyer is going to stay in the rotation no matter what because of his experience, veteran leadership, win totals, etc. (leaving Happ or Martinez hanging by a thread) and the other that believes he can’t be in the rotation because he’s inconsistent, old, ERA, etc. (so it’s either Happ or Moyer walking the plank).

    The common theme: Happ is up against adversity once again.

    The funny thing is that the underlying feeling by both factions is that neither will be happy if Happ is removed from the rotation… but both have reached the conclusion that it’s gotta be this way.

    Happ is our #4… I wish that they would support this kid (come out and say that he’s not going anywhere). I really hope that they pick Moyer/Martinez.

52. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    Jeff……first off….why would you want Pedro to fail..??….he could give us options, either in the pen or the rotation. Wanting him to fail is not productive.

    Second, Drabek is not ready for the rotation. When he’s called up in Sept when the rosters expans he many get a start but, most likely, he’ll throw out of the pen.

    Third, Moyer in the garbage?? Granted, he’s not as good as his 10 wins….but he’s not “garbage” either.

53. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Hey Jeff, maybe we should get rid of Hamels while you are at it because he gave up 6 runs in 5 innings BEFORE coming out of the game, and Moyer gave up 4 , then walked 2 and got pulled and the following 2 runs from the walks got charged to Moyer. How does that sound?

54. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    LOL Chuck.

    Dobbs is no help against a lefty though. Francisco ever play 1B? I’m gonna go check.

55. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Dobbs is more help against a lefty than Bruntlett. Bruntlett should be sent back to Little League, maybe we can hit the ball there.

56. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    I meant he, not we.

57. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    I’m hoping for 7 strong from Pedro tonight if they get the game in. It’s clear we don’t want Moyer or Lopez pitching in the playoffs so more options is a good thing.

58. The Original Chuck P Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Jeff- why would you hope that Pedro gives up 10 runs tonight? Wouldn’t it be better if he found “it?” At one time, Pedro was one of the most dominant pitchers of this generation… why can’t he be that guy for a few months? I hope that he is lights out and proves that he can help this team down the stretch…

59. pl Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    BAD IDEA! happ has earned his spot and at this point with hamels and moyer both being inconsistent and not even knowing how pedro is going to do, we need happ!

    end of story

60. The Dipsy Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Everyone knows that Happ deserves to be in the rotation. Thats not the issue. Happ is the only guy that knows how to pitch outta the pen and thats why he’s going. No one said life is fair. I think the disconnect comes on this issue because fans think that its easy to pitch outta the pen. That anyone can do it. By all accounts, its not. Moyer could very well be a lost lamb in the pen. Pedro hasn’t done but my guess is he could. But lets face it…you gotta give Pedro his shot. I’m sure he was promised a shot at starting. When Lee got here everything got screwy. Happ will be fine. he knows the drill. You want someone to blame, blame the one dimensional fossil who gets his face blown off every start.

    The Dipsy

61. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    That’s funny from Atkins… so I guess he meant that if he faced Moyer more often, his average would be above .230 ?

62. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Exactly, Original………GO PEDRO!!!!

63. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Dipsy’s point is well taken….just look at Lopez last night..

64. CZ Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    @ Brian – Did you read the article? It lists the Ultimate Zone Ratings of the Phillies defenders and illustrates that they are not playing defense as well as they did last year. That does not always amount to more errors. It simply means that for whatever reason those guys are not GETTING TO as many balls as last year. Fielding statistics like this are a relatively new idea therefore since the Phils again have a high fielding% the common response would be to assume they are as good as last year. Also, the article also accounts for Hamels’ poor ERA by stating that his BABIP is just bad luck. How many times have there been bloop hits that no fielder could get to this year. BABIP is a statistic that generally normalizes to a career norm. The fact that his is60 points above his career average is a major anomaly. All the rest of his peripheral statistics are better than his career year last year. The numbers don’t lie.

65. psujoe Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    How can a guy having a crappy year like Atkins mouth off like that. Happ should plunk him in the first. Stand up for your teammate time!

66. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Trust me, Atkins has no class, and is an idiot. I live in Colorado, I have to hear the stupidity on a daily basis. I absolutely HATE the Rockies and the announcers. Complete morons.

67. Manny Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    What did Atkins say??

68. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    CZ, Hamels is not just giving up base hits that the Phillies arent getting to. Many are the bloopers that NO ONE can get to. When he does that, you can blame it on the fielding. Seeing how great the Defense was last season, I can see how they might not be as great, but the Article blamed ALL of Hamels problems on the Defense. So if the Defense is the problem, explain Happ and Blanton, and now Lee? Hamels is having a horrible year, flat out. You can look at number this and numbers that, but when you break out number in 100 different ways, they will be lower to make it look better.

69. Brian of CO Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    “Moyer is so much fun to hit off of. Its like batting practice.” Which is also kind of funny, because Ive seen him in Batting Practice here in CO, and he SUCKS in Batting Practice. Atkins is an idiot. I like him about as much as I like Jose Reyes.

70. Manny Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Oh wow, what a total douche. Show some respect! At least Moyer will go down in history with his 250+ wins…

71. Jonathan Atwood Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    I think the best solution is a 6 man rotation. The only downside is that Lee loses a start or two.

    But it rests Hamels, keeps Happ in the rotation, makes Pedro happy, and shows respect to Moyer. And if Pedro is a dud after two starts, you move him into the bullpen.

    It’s a solution that makes everybody happy.

72. Jeff Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    First off Pedro has not been that guy for 6 -7 years. He is done. Sticking around like the greats. Jerry Rice, Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, Marvin Harrison, Emit Smith, ETC. All players that stayed around to long. Pedro did nothing for the Mets. Hamels is an MVP. Moyer is garbage. Staying around way to long and cant get hitters out on his 75 fastball. When he pitches you want to cry.

73. The Dipsy Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    How much you wanna bet Pedro buzzes the tower, or just outright hits, Atkins tonite? That would be sweet. A six man rotation is the stupidest idea I have ever heard. Cole would like it though. I’ve actually heard that “Princess” is pushing for a seven man rotation. Can anyone confirm this?

    The Dipsy

74. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Jeff…can we wait til Pedro actually makes an appearance for the Phillies before we make any determinations on how he’s gonna be.

    Dipsy….cut it out. Hamels is a thoughtful, careful guy….but “Princess”??? C’mon..

75. Jeff Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    I love Hamels but I agree with Dipsy. Hamels is a princess. He is not that tough guy pitcher. He has been like that his whole in the majors. Great talent but even when he was out for time. The comments. I dont want to ruin myself. When he got the lose the other night. So stupid. Thank god we got LEE. Thats a tough guy.

76. The Dipsy Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    The whole Hamels thing. First off, he pops off about his precious arm. I’ll pitch when I feel like it. He needs a chiropractor to travel with the team. He talks like a valley girl. BUT! That mfer won four games in the post season and broke his hand on a guys face a few years back so he’s ok with me. He just comes off like a sissy. His wife is totally hot, too. I’ll keep him.

    The Dipsy

77. Manny Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    …A “Princess” who is admiring his World Series MVP trophy on the wall while you waste your time bashing him on a freaking blog.

    –

    Personal attacks are not OK in my book.

78. The Dipsy Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Hey Manny – did you have your sense of humor surgically removed?

    The Dipsy

79. Repeat! Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    I didn’t know Cole was into BDSM. Weird…..

80. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    Heavy B and Happ are my two favorite pitchers on the team…

    and Rollins and Werth are my two favorite everyday players… guys that might not be the best at any one thing, but can give you all different aspects of the game

81. Georgie Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    That kind of mentality is precisely why Cole will not remain a Phillie his entire career, he will head out to the West Coast where fans won’t call him a “sissy” or “nancy boy” , just because he’s not some big, fat beefy jughead who will go out and injure himself for the sake of preserving his macho image, when in reality it is all about preserving that arm.

    Dipsy, does it take alot of energy to be such a smarta$$ all the time, just wondering?

82. Repeat! Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Heavy B….. Very funny! “The over weight lover’s in the house”

83. Repeat! Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Nancy Boy…….. Keep them coming Phillies Nation!

84. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    in his defense.. ripping a guy on a blog, does not/should not count as a personal attack … especially since the guy is making a boat load of money this year..

    BECUASE Hamels pitched 4,000 innings last year, including the postseason.. I didnt think his arm would be great this year, but I didnt think he would be THIS BAD.

    If you’re hurt.. skip a start or two.. be fresh for Sept and beyond

85. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Dipsy…I have lost any respect that I had for you with those comments. I thought you werea good blogger, with lots of insight and productive information……but no…..I have changed my opinion of yoy. Are you trying to be funny? And you actually have the authority to feature a weekly column on this site? I think your comments are negative and disgraceful and have no place here.

86. Repeat! Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    Cole’s a sissy? Don’t be ridiculous! This guy has a lot of heart. He just made a mistake that many young pitchers make the off-season following a WS Title/APP. He admitted that he toured promoting the DVD, and was not ready for the season. The Rays pitchers have also struggled or have gotten hurt this yr. Kasmir stands out. And Beckett struggled the season following ring seasons with Sox as well. I’ll take the 2008 WS and a struggling Cole in 09 any day of the week. He’ll turn it around. This guy is also a Humanat. as well. An all around real good guy.

87. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    Calling COLD Hamels a “Princess” and saying that he would welcome a 7-man rotation.. is actaully funny..

    people need to lighten up a little.. if Cole is your brother, son, husband, whatever.. I could see you getting a little uptight. but what he is to the rest of us, is the underperforming “ACE” of this staff.

    r e e e e l a x dawgs

88. Georgie Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    Yeah, Don, and you know what people are going to say if he skips a couple starts and the team falters, “oh, he’s too fragile, he doesn’t have the stones to go out there, he’s a wussy, blah, blah, blah…. We’ve heard it before about him and it will be twice as bad if he misses starts. You KNOW there’s not a huge amount of compassion in this town for players who are struggling, fans and media are all over them.

89. steve p Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    I have heard a lot cracks about hamels, but I have to tell you I was in spring training this year with my 8 and 10 year old sons and he was by far the most accesible and friendly player on the team. Every game he would come out of the pen about 1 to 1 1/2 hours before the game and not stop signing until the batter was in the box to start the game. he took pictures all the time, talked and was extremely friendly. My sons took pics and then went back the next day and had the pics signed. All this while the other fan favorites..utley, howard, lidge, stairs completely ignored all the kids. I think as a person, Hamels is more like the average fan than any of the other players, and is not by any means a diva.

90. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    It’s not what Dipsy said…..it’s HOW it came across…..sort of like how Georgie put it…..a smarta$$.

91. Manny Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    And this comes from Don, the guy who hates on Utley for saying World Fuc*ing Champions??

    How is that bad while it is apparently OK to call Cole (or any other player) a “sissy” or “a Princess” in front of kids at the ballpark? It’s actually worse, imo. Much fuc*ing worse.

92. Repeat! Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    Lighten up a little ladies and gentelman. The Phils are in 1st, the baseball Gods sparred us last nite with the Fish loss. And I think we have the most beautiul woman Phillies Fans in MLB. Going to the game on a nice summer day is almost as good as going to the beach. The number of hot women we see at the Bank is amazing!

93. Texas2step Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    Hamels whats all the talk for…. ya didn’t know he is a wussy…come on now… I thought he owned a gerbal farm in Vince Beach Ca……must be another guy…..no silly your man Cole ….him and Brad Lidge rent space up Charlie Manuels Butt…..sad Lee comes in here and the “team” is falling apart…when is Jamie gonna start selling beer in section 103…..he’d do a much better job there….or maybe pitch batting practice till sept. Is it really true Howard strikes out at B/P too……omg…I think the Phils are do some re-organizing …Romero take a “spike” I mean a hike….Meyers please stay out…please …”Jamie get your beer here Moyer” go on the charity circuit….there’s only a few on the team who want to win …Utley is a stat man….we all know that I could go on ….but I think the end of first place is coming and quickly…The Mets once again let one get away with all the injuries…waht team has more …none….but the fact of backing into the league championship again this year is slipping away…Cole put down that gerbal and be a man…………………………………Texas2step

94. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    EIther that… or he takes his 5.00 ERA into the postseason and looks like his heads going to explode each time he gives up a run

95. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    tobaco.net ?? Kill yourself

96. Chuck Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    Exactly steve p, we had the same experience in Florida this spring. Hamels was SOOOO gracious and had time to sign…….and this was AFTER a session at the minor league complex because he was having shoulder pain. It was right before he headed back to Philly to be examined. Some guys would have been too distracted by their injury or physical condition to pay any attention to the fans….but not Cole.

97. Don M Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:41 pm

    wait.. wait.. wait..

    I’m confused.. how is someone calling Hamels a “princess” (when his actual nickname is HOLLYWOOD).. on a blog. as bad, or worse than Utley dropping premeditated F-bombs in front of kinds, and on Live TV and Radio ??

98. Repeat! Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    Texas2step…. Last call for the short yellow bus…………….

    Howard: 2006 MVP, Rollins:2007 MVP, Phillies: 2008 World Series Champs. Mutts Fans: Everytime I go up to NYC; Queens/Brooklyn I wear my Rollins Jersey with the “WS Champs” patch. On the ride ont eh E train to Queens from Manht I had the pleasure of seeing several Mutts Fans dressed in their Halloween Costumes. Some of them look liked they wanted to cry when they took a peak at my Phils Hat with the WS patch.

99. Georgie Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    Just because these guys get to play a game we all love and they make millions doing it doesn’t make them any less human than we are. They have feelings, families, health issues, just like us, but sometimes we’re so used to seeing them as a bunch of statistics, we expect them to perform like machines, and we all know that’s not possible.

100. Don M Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

     I met Hamels in Boston in 2006 … right after he got called up.. he was really cool, really nice. Walking around Fenway Park after the game, just like I was. I asked him for a picture, he said no problem, we chatted for a few minutes.. he was really cool

     that has nothing to do with him not pitching well this season..

     Nobody is honestly attacking him.. people are making jokes, at the expense of the Rich kid with the laid-back attitude.. who is underperforming this season, after setting our expectations so high last year.

101. Don M Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

     Mets won today.. now only 9.5 games back in the NL EAST !!!

102. Manny Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

     Ok, Don you’re always right. There.

103. Georgie Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

     Well, Don, Manny was saying that if this kind of namecalling spills over to the ballpark, and someone like Dipsy starts calling Cole a “princess” or “sissy” in front of little kids, it sets a very bad example, and before you know it, you’ll have kids walking around doing the same thing. You should teach your kids to have respect for others, it’s not like Cole has done something criminal, so he doesn’t deserve that, especially after what he gave us last year. At the very least, this team deserves some respect, imo.

104. Don M Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

     Are you seriously suggesting that somebody calling Cole Hamels a “sissy” and a “Princess” here on a blog (with limited readership)

     is as bad, or worse, than Chase Utley dropping F-bombs in front of millions of people, children included ??

     ..

     I just want to make sure I understand where you’re coming from here

105. Repeat! Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

     Let the WFC go…. You’ll feel better. Calling him names is not the same as crtizing him. Same with Howard, Chase, Rollins or anyon else. Attack their play not their manhood or their integrity and desire to play the game. Personal attacks are uncalled for and cowardly. It also displays extreme jealousy.

106. Manny Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:00 pm

     Forget it, Georgie… he can’t read…. especially the part where you say “someone like Dipsy starts calling Cole a “princess” or “sissy” in front of little kids”…

107. Chuck Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:00 pm

     Again…it’s not what Dipsy said……it’s the spiirit in which he said it…..

     ….it was overly negative and mean-spirited, in my opinion. I can imagine Dipsy or someone like him saying that kind of stuff at the ballpark in fron of kids and I think that’s where this argument is going.

     Is it worse that what Utley did?….probably not…but Utley’s comments weren’t NEGATVE like Dipsy’s. THAT’S the difference.

108. Don M Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

     I can read, just not that well … what does this say?

     “Manny Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
     And this comes from Don, the guy who hates on Utley for saying World Fuc*ing Champions??

     How is that bad while it is apparently OK to call Cole (or any other player) a “sissy” or “a Princess” in front of kids at the ballpark? It’s actually worse, imo. Much fuc*ing worse.”

109. Manny Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

     Just to be clear, this might sound like something straight out of a psychology class: When you scream Fuc*ing in front of people during a celebration you’re not labeling anyone, you’re not attacking anyone’s integrity… But when you start calling names in front of kids, then that’s the stuff that sticks in their minds, and it creates prejudice, little by little.

110. Georgie Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

     Don, are you naive enough to believe the this kind of talk doesn’t go beyond the blogs? If people on here are saying it, it’s being said around town as well, and probably at the ballpark, especially with all those drunken macho frat boys who have to prove how manly they are and impress people.

111. The Dipsy Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

     Georgie, Chuck, Don! My God! Please see post of 3:39. I love Cole. I tease because I love. By the way, “Princess” is Ricky Bo’s word, not mine. He used it last night in reference to what relievers in his time used to refer to that day’s starter as when they sitting in the pen. I will make apologies when necessary but I think this misunderstanding is due solely to the ‘nets inability to convey tone and nuance. Trust me, if we were in a bar and I would have said the same thing to you guys you would have laughed. Secondly, no matter how much I hate a Philly, Sixer, or Eagle, I would never, ever, ridicule them by actually yelling at them at a ballgame. Quite frankly, I am a bit insulted that you would accuse me of stopping to such a low level. That said, I am a TOTAL smarta$$, not to be confused with an a$$hole….I hope We square?

     The Dipsy

112. Don M Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

     I love all you guys… and girls..

     sometimes its way too easy for us to mis-understand what we’re trying to say.. and for little arguements to start.

     …

     I’m letting it go, hopefully Happ throws 8 innings of shutout ball tonight, and Lidge closes the door. (Rockies starter tonight averages a K per inning, and he’s a Lefty… look for lots of K’s tonight) the Rockies are actually favored to win according to Yahoo Odds

113. A former Druken Macho Frat Man Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

     Those were the days……..

114. Georgie Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:16 pm

     Dipsy, my husband and his entire family “tease because they love”, unfortunately they are usually the only ones who find it funny, and they end up either hurting peoples’ feelings or pissing them off. I am at the complete other end of the spectrum, I try NOT to hurt people or be mean-spirited, so I obviously have a problem with your distinctive sense of humor, although I will admit once in a while, you do crack me up.

115. Frat Man Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

     Is 40 too old to still be playing Beer Pong?

116. Chuck Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:18 pm

     Ok Ok….GROUP HUG……let’s all just make up and forgive/forget…..well maybe not totally forget….oh, whatever…I get it..

     A BIGGER issue……GO PHILS!!!! GO HAPP!!!!! LET’S WIN TONIGHT!!!!

117. Pat Gallen Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

     SO, from what I gathered, everyone thinks its a horrible idea to drop Happ in the pen? Duly noted.

118. Chuck Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

     Oh yeah…that WAS the topic, huh?….

     Yes….it’s a BAD idea!!

119. Frat Man Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

     Beer guts are sexy…..

120. Georgie Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

     Ok BIIIGGGG HUG, and Dips, that should be familiar to you, lol.

121. The Dipsy Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

     Georgie. Luv ya. Mean it.

     The Dipsy

122. Don M Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

     even Phillies.com mentions “Happ may be pitching for his spot in rotation”

     and the other headline is “Moyer can’t contain Colorado’s bats in opener”

     …
     Happ has been the most consistent starting pitcher all season.. and because he was ALSO very good when he started the year in the bullpen, they might put him there?? I just don’t get the logic … you are paying Moyer regardless, why not give yourself the best chance to win.. instead of the best chance of needing help from the bullpen early?

     Is there something in Moyer’s contract that he gets EXTRA money if he’s removed from the rotation or something?? Because they clearly have some motivation behind wanting him to stay in the rotation .. WIN TOTALS, SCHMIN TOTALS

123. Chedda Bob Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

     Thanks Plax! Because of you the dream lives on…..

124. Plax Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

     You’re the Greatest of All Time! I had to make sure that you would never be forgotten. Mission Accomplished….

125. Geoff Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

     Its like he has blackmail photos of someone because NOBODY is mentioning taking MOyer out of the rotation outside of the Internet like its some CIA top secret or something.

126. The Dipsy Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

     Geoff. If I, me, The Dipsy, were running the team, Moyer would be in the bullpen so fast it would make your head spin. Let him take some time to acclimate himself to relieving. Go to Clearwater. Relax. Learn to pitch an inning a day. Come back in three weeks when you’re ready. I actually think that he would be a good change up lefty. I would have no problem sitting him down and, after explaining how lucky he his to be making 12m over the next two years at 47, and pointing out that his ERA is 5.55, tell him that he will be going to the bullpen. “Ultimate team guy”? Ok….lets see it. I would also root for him to do well.

     The Dipsy

127. Confessions of a Philly Santa Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

     I know why Philly really booed me. But I’ll never tell….

128. Manny Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 6:06 pm

     MLB.com headline: “Happ’s spot in rotation may be tenuous”

     Seriously?? This just really upsets me… If it’s just gonna be a Happ vs. Martinez duel for that spot, you bet that I’ll be rooting AGAINST Martinez in his minor league games….

     What does this guy have to do to stay in our rotation? His ERA is still better than Cliff Lee’s…helloooooo (hopefully this won’t change after tonight)…

129. Geoff Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

     iM PISSED! Moyer freaking BLOWS!!!!! Happ must stay!

130. David A Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

     Did I see that Pedro has 9 strikeouts through 4 innings???? uhoh….I think it fairly obvious that Pedro (if pitchin well) should be our 4th or 5th starter with Happ staying and Moyer movin to pen for rest of season to mop up and THEN make a decision to keep Moyer on playoff roster or not.

     Would love to see Moyer in dugout though regardless on being on the “roster”…some sort of “assistant pitching coach”. at least for the rest of this year.

131. David A Says:
     August 5th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

     oh yeah – here is the boxscore i just found on internet…

     Reading IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
     Martinez, P 4.0 2 1 1 0 9 1 2.25

     gave up 1st inning homer.

     yes 9 strikeouts….unless its a typo

132. jcole Says:
     August 6th, 2009 at 12:28 am

     Moyer to the ‘pen. Enough said. He can’t get through the 2nd inning without loading the bases at least once (if he’s lucky).
     OR! moyer and martinez share the 5th starter spot… Every 5th game, martinez goes the first 4-5 innings, and then moyers goes the next 4 innings, if he can make it.
     Moyer is a great prescence, but he has surely seen better days.
     Happ is a great piece in the rotation. amazingly solid, and hopefully it’s not just a kendrick-like fluke.

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