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Gameday: Phillies (77-55) At Astros (64-70)
Posted by Amanda Orr, Sat, September 05, 2009 06:05 PM
Philadelphia Phillies (77-55) at Houston Astros (64-70)
Joe Blanton (9-6, 3.77 ERA) vs. Roy Oswalt (8-5, 3.80 ERA)
Time: 7:05 p.m at Minute Maid Park
Weather: Partly Cloudy, 83
TV: MY PHL 17
Twitter: Phillies Nation
Since Sunday, the Phillies have scored six lonely runs. Even though the pitching allowed 14 runs, the Phillies have been able to win three games. Subtracting Cliff Lee’s poor outing, the Phillies were only outscored 8-6. They have been facing great pitching, and today will be no different. Regardless, the offense needs to get back on track.
Joe Blanton will take the mound against Roy Oswalt. Blanton is 5-2 with a 2.41 ERA in his last 12 starts. Blanton won his only career start against Houston. He pitched seven innings and allowed three runs.
Oswalt is 6-1 with a 3.28 ERA in 10 games against the Phillies. Oswalt starts to pick it up in the second half, especially September. He is 28-8 with a 2.54 ERA in September/October.
Tonight’s Lineup: Chase Utley is out with a bruised, swollen foot.
Shane Victorino (CF)/ Jayson Werth (RF)/ Jimmy Rollins (SS)/ Ryan Howard (1B)/ Raul Ibanez (LF)/ Pedro Feliz (3B)/ Miguel Cairo (2B)/ Paul Bako (C)/ Joe Blanton (P).
Your Gameday Beer – Racer X
We’re staying with an American Imperial IPA for tonight’s recommendation because it’s not only delicious but it goes great with BBQ. You may recall reading about Racer 5 which is a little more widespread than its older brother, but X has more malt, more hops and not surprisingly more alcohol. Taste-wise, this brew has a strong hoppy aroma with notes of orange, mango, peaches and lemon zest. Eat it with some grilled lemon pepper chicken kebobs. – By Brian
GO PHILLIES!
308 Responses to “Gameday: Phillies (77-55) At Astros (64-70)”
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September 5th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
With Miguel Cairo at 2nd, I’m not counting on the offense getting back on track! Call me a skeptic1
September 5th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Why is Utley off? Is it just to rest him or is something wrong?
I agree Greg about Cairo.
September 5th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
oops! Totally missed that line…
September 5th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
he’s out with a bruised, swollen foot.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
I wonder why they aren’t starting EB? At least he was starting to hit. Is Cairo a lefty?
September 5th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Jimmy Rollins, 1 walk in the last 14 games.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
any predictions tonight?
September 5th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Phillies score 1 run, in the 8th inning off some scrub reliever and lose 2-1.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Jimmy Rollins doesnt get a walk.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
well its hard to walk when you swing at and line out on the first or second pitch of every at bat.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
ugh will Rauuuul ever return?
September 5th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
yeah, didn’t think Cairo &/or Bako would produce.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
yes Raul will return. But not nearly to what we saw the first few months…
um where the hell was that 0-2 pitch to Tejada? Looks right down the middle to me. It was perfect.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
well that sucks
September 5th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
I gotta feeling we are going to get SWEPT by the Astros. It is going to be a long September for the Phils.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Ugh. What is this, a rerun?
September 5th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Definitely a rerun. I remember sloppy fielding like that last night too.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
we’ll Ed R, – that’s 2 …half the prediction
September 5th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Astros still getting the luck with their bloop singles
September 5th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
we just have to put up the 1 measly run
September 5th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Considering they lead the league in GIDP, I’d say the Astros are even that much more lucky than their bloop singles
September 5th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
i hope I am wrong, I really really do.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
prolly will be, I think we’ll give up more runs
September 5th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Well i’m getting some coffee not like I’m missing much…
September 5th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Jeeeeeeez! This game is looking almost as bad as yesterday’s!
September 5th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
wow…i still haven’t left and they’re almost done batting..that ain’t good
September 5th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
it’s not even entertaining.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Okay folks…lets hope this isn’t the start of a collapse. The Phils bats have fully disappeared in the past week, and the pitching is now starting to be inconsistent. The Marlins are on our tails as they are easily going to beat Washington tonight and could close the gap to 6.5 games back. This is scary. Where are the Phillies bats? Can they not hit anymore?
September 5th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
6.5 games is a pretty long tail
September 5th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
I agree D.C, the Marlins are going to make it interesting. After their inter team spat between Uggla and Ramirez they have not lost a game. Maybe two guys on the Phillies need to go at each other. It’s a good thing Myers is back. They Phillies have just lost the fire, they need to get it back. Somehow. They need a spark.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
We have 6 games left with the Marlins SO ANYTHING can happen. The Phils have been struggling for too long. I am getting concern. We can’t hit. And when we do, we can’t score. The PHILS are in trouble.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
and I was right, oh well
September 5th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
this is officially pathetic
September 5th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
well I was wrong, sadly, not the way I had hoped. Guess I’ll go watch some Va-Tech and Alabama. That should atleast be entertaining.
67 pitches so far for Blanton through 3.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Admittedly, not as pathetic tonight as last night, but not good.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
For all you Phils fans that think the end is near, Doomsday 2012: The End of Days is on the History Channel. That might be more up your alley than a Phils game
September 5th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
ugh when we hit it hard we hit it at them, if that was the Astros batting it wouldn’t be hit at us. bad luck for the Phillies!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
I’m an inning away from switching to the Rays game! This is pathetic!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
can Raul get a hit?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
I say he smacks a home run in the 8th inning when we’re down 10-0!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
not a chance
September 5th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
They need to give Ibanez a day off. Or three…
September 5th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
GET BACK TO THE GAME YOU IDIOTS! I’m tired of watching the announcers contemplate their navels!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Baseballbriefs.com tracking back Gameday: Phillies (77-55) At Astros (64-70)…
Baseballbriefs.com tracking back Gameday: Phillies (77-55) At Astros (64-70)…
September 5th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
another quick lousy inning, oh well.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Blanton, at least (unlike Lee last night) seems to have settled down. But we need to start hitting the ball.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
nvm, Bako actually got a hit. but what’s the chance Blanton gets on?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
O’s Bros? OK, they get points for the name, but is there a theme, or are they just random costumes? That was weird.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Phils win 6-3
September 5th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
hee hee. I like the way you think, Joe!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Phillies have 42 K’s since their series vs the Giants began…including tonight thats 42k’s in 39 innings. Awesome.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
September is supposed to be the Phillies month. This year, it isn’t looking that way. How do all of our bats go silent at once?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
@DC: Swine flu?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
nice work, Mr. Blanton. Thought yuou could use some love cuz by the looks of the offense you’re gonna get stood up…. again.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
But no, it’s the bats. Dutch Elm Disease?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Plague maybe?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Dark days are ahead for the Phils. Virtually everyone is in a hitting slump. This forebodes a short and painful post-season. I am worried sick about the Phightins.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Maybe I am having a brain fart.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
This is too good of a team to all be slumping like this at the same time for this long. It is just mind blowing. When are the coaches going to start earning their money?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Ed R. – yep. and that’s nothing you can blame on the Law of Averages. That’s all on us. Strike outs get you nowhere.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Really, they haven’t been slumping that long. It’s a blip in the long season. But it’s been ugly.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
I have never seen an ENTIRE team just STOP hitting. WTF is going on. 16 scoreless innings.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Wow… they should have warned us about those 70s ’stros uniforms so I could put on my sunglasses before that clip…
September 5th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Miss me now?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
This team is overdue for a big inning! If they could get Oswalt out, that would be great!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/stats/teamsort/regularseason/weekly/MLB/HIT/BASIC?&_1:col_1=4
this’ll make you laugh…
September 5th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Hey! If Raul and Bako can get hits, nobody has any excuses!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
now that Rauul got a hit, what’s the chance he scores?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Ed Wade is smiling ear to ear right now.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
now when you say laugh you really mean cry right NJ?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Maybe Ed Wade will annoy some of his players tonight so they can beat him up like Shawn Chacon
September 5th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
hahahaha, we can only hope.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Look on the bright side tonight. The Eagles finally got rid of Lorenzo Booker and even admitted that obtaining him was a mistake.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Wait for it….wait for it…
September 5th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Braves are losing again. That is good news, but the Marlins are beating the crap out of the lowly Nationals which isn’t good news
September 5th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Whats there to cry about… It’s not like the worst run producing team in baseball has scored almost 3 times as the Phils have in the last 7 days, or the Yanks have scored 6 1/2 times that amount in that span… Oh wait that is the case.
The simple truth is this is a team lacking in identity, the stats are great but the day-to-day leaves a lot to be desired. It’s not like the poor all-around team performances can be blamed on the starting pitching.
All or nothing is not a winning baseball attitude
September 5th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
WHEW!! Phils PHINALLY score a run!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Could this be? Are the bats starting to awake?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Great production – we need to see more of this. And look – there are still runners on base. The threat continues. There hasn’t been a home run to clear the bases and give the Astros a fresh start.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
woo Rauul scores! alright Francisco!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
I am thrilled Buckley made the team, same with Brandon Gibson. I was hoping Danny Amendola would as well but oh well. Hopefully they can sign him to the practice squad.
Way to go FRISCO!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Actually there is an ash blight in the Baltimore area so i guess the maple bats will save some ash trees…though I don’t think the maple bats should be allowed unless pitchers get the high strike back or a few inches on the mound. At the very least the bat handles should be thicker…can’t do anything about density of maple but a thicker handle will limit the speed a batter can turn his wrist over. I mean of all the team sports the one postition that has more things taken from it than any other position is the MLB pitcher. Plus ash bats don’t explode like these maple ones. It’s a matter time before someone’s impaled by a maple vampire stakes.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Okay is it me or does Charlie leave his pitchers in too long? For example, this Astros pitcher just gave up one key hit, and their manager took him out. If that were a Phillies pitcher, Manuel would of kept him in until he gives up the tying run or go ahead run. I feel like Manuel doesn’t make quick moves to prevent further destruction. Call me crazy?
September 5th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
CHOOCH!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
haha finally we get a bloop single! alright Ruiz!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
CHOOOOCH!!!! If the bottom of our order can produce then why can’t the big fellas.
Come on guys.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Charlie has to tell his guys how much he loves this stuff after the game ends regardless of the result. He has to let them know that this is better than all-power swings. It’s just fun to see this kind of play!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
I think Charlie has a habit of letting his starters go a little too long sometimes, I call it the Grady Litle syndrome.
September 5th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
we are def not a sac fly friendly team
September 5th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Watching Coste in another teams uniform is painful…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Well Ed R. 2-1, 3-2 close and to a scrub reliever…well I don’t know if the guy’s a scrub but close enough. I’m just happy that we scored but more importantly we did it singles!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Phillies just blew what chance they had of coming back…cholly really needs to give victorino a day off he needs one.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
@NJ: Yeah, last time I was at the ballpark, I noticed they were selling his book… at half-price.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
They’re all going to need days off. We’ve got a long stretch of non-stop games coming up.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Can you say “1964″? Can you say choke? Can you say disgrace? the Phillies don’t deserve to be division champs (they won’t have to worry about that). Teams can’t wait to play them because their chance for a “no hitter” against the Phils are xtremely high. Opposing club pitchers are licking their chops against this sorry line-up.
The entire team is in the midst of a long awaited slump. We knew it would come and it arrived last week. Atlanta is looking up at the Phillies and can almost see the “whites of their eyes”.
Now Blanton has sucummed to the loser disease all started by lidge; it has spread likea cancer. Knowing they won’t get any run support, the starting pitchers are just going thru the motions until the losing streak is over. Save their arm and leave this season healthy now is the motto for philly pitching. it’s over. by the time they do get out of the slump, they will be looking up at Atlanta.
St. Louis is way to powerful. It’s the Yanks and St. Louis – you might as well just fast forward. Phillies – get your pics in front of the WS trophy now before you give it uo in a month. The phillies are tired, have attitude problems and are resting on their laurels. I would bench most of the starters and see what the bench can do and evaluate them. At leadt they will be hungry because they won’t to prove themselves. The starting line-up ought to give part of their salary back to the philly fans because they are not playing at a major league level. you call this entertaining? i can hear the fat laying singing; party’s over……
September 5th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Tracey- Am guessing there were no takers so they just dumped the books on waivers…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
still holding out hope j-reed that I was completely wrong.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
that’s “with singles”
Always been one of my knocks against Charlie, leaving pitchers into long. But he comes from the hittin’ side of things so I cut him some slack…but it’s not like there isn’t a pitching coach there…you know the guy who should told Charlie no way do you run Lidge out there 4 days in a row…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
wtf george? time to think u’re an idiot.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
I think Charlie leaves the pitchers in too long to build their self esteem. The same mentality that causes people to give awards for participation to Little Leaguers.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
what’s with all the talk about Charlie leaving pitchers in too long? he didn’t leave Blanton in too long . . . .? I’m confused.
alright Jimmy!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Nice start to the 8th!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Jimmy took a strike!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
@Keith: It’s a general pattern, contrasting it with the ’stros who pulled their pitcher quickly. Then again, we’re doing a lot better than the ’stros…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
WHEE!! GAME TIED !!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
HOWARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD wooo!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Nice triple Pimp Caddy!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
@ Keith, no one said that Charlie left Blanton in to long. They were just pointing out that Oswalt gave up a bad hit in the top of the 7th and although he was money all night before that the coach had no issue taking him out. Charlie seems to hesitate a bit with taking pitchers out.
WAY TO GO BIG BROWN!!!!
Amazing what happens when J-Roll gets on base. Shame J-Roll wasn’t on second otherwise it would have been a RISP.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Once again, Ryan lifts the team up on his mighty shoulders and puts the Phils back in the game…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
oh k thanks Tracey
come on Rauuul!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Howie time!
Now get him HOME!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Ibanez needs to sit tomorrow.
Awful…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
alright Feliz! 4-3 Phillies
September 5th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
YES!!! OH BABY!!! PHILS TAKE THE LEAD!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
lol @joedad.
For the love of God Ibanez. I swear I think Helen Keller would have a better chance up there than Ibanez does.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
FELIZ!!! Nice!!!
Come Phils, get a couple more runs.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Way to go Feliz. A hit with RISP. Who knew?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Wow, I usually agree with Wheels but he is dead wrong. You ALWAYS play infield in in the 8th inning of a tie game. Is he stoned?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
oh my Cairo has 2 hits!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Ok guys, we got a game with the Astros tonight. And that only means one thing. Bad news for the Astros.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
No just clueless.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
WOW! Phils are making up for lost time!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Cairo?!?!?! Too bad it was a ground rule…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Chris Wheeler loves nothing more than talking about defensive positioning late in the game.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Don’t name your kids Hunter…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohXn8WKpYaA
September 5th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I wonder if they would have walked the pinch hitter if it was some other lefty? Walking Stairs is a no brainer. Prime DP potential right there. If I were Rino I would be bunting on the first pitch. Just to throw everyone off.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
LOL @Morris. Better late than never!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Good point Wheels, we do want a deep fly ball as opposed to a pop up.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Hey Ed R., check out my reply on the other thread.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
blah evil DP
September 5th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Awww… but the Phils take the lead in the 8th!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Crap. Oh well, at least they got the lead.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
4 runs. The bats are on fire tonight.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Is Madsen available?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Not sure why you dont bring Madesn in here…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Brett Myers! Come on Brett!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Why would they throw Myers in a game like this?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Welcome back, Brett.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
come on Myers!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
@Terri: Nu, you’d rather have Madson and Lidge?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
seriously Brett…seriously…GIDP time GIDP time…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Throw strikes!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Ok Brett. Settle down and lets do this.
I guess Charlie wants to see if Myers can get it done when it matter.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
I guess they want to put him in to see how he reacts to this pressure in the pen.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
CHOOOOOOCH!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
WHEE!! Caught stealing!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
haha, chubby Berkman running
September 5th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
hooray Lance Berkman is thrown out! for some reason he was running, hehe.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Two down; four to go!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Charlie is doing a lot of tinkering with the lineup to see how people react to situations. I think that is why Lee threw to Ruiz last night. Because Bako ain’t starting a playoff game.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
alright Myers!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Nice work, Brett!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Well done Michael Myers
September 5th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Welcome back Brett!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Good Job Brett!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
That helmet is just goofy. I think they have smaller tea cups on a ride at Disney.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Let’s get another run, nice to see that the bottom of the order is coming up for the Astros.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Rats, I thought Shane had that one.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Great Job Brett!!! Welcome back.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Shane’s helmet seems to fit a lot better than David Wright’s did. The problem with Wright’s helmet is that they did not increase the size of the logo.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Argh… we really could have used those runs…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
@Morris: Yeah, Wright looked like a 6-yo kid wearing an MLB helmet.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I suppose that in a few years, those big helmets will look normal and today’s standard helmets will seem quaint.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I hope Shane is ok.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Did Vic get hurt?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
What happened to Victorino?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Vic’s knee is bothering him. He was limping.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Is it just me, or does it seem like the Astros and the Diamondbacks have a long running competition to have the ugliest uniforms in the league?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Does Lidge walk someone every time he pitches?! Ugh, he was up 0-2.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Time for Plan Beer.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
ugh, Chris Coste
September 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Jesus Christmas!!! Come on Lidge. Get it together. Please do not blow this for us.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
It’s never easy for Lidge…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Get him out of there Charlie. When he puts two on, its time to pull him. He can’t be trusted.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
this crap is scripted when Lidge pitches, every time – 2 men on, 1 out
September 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Why am I hearing an OK Go song in the back of my head… (Here It Goes Again…)
September 5th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Morris – it was a lefty/righty match-up thing. Wandy’s a lefty, so I think Charlie was thinkiing Ruiz would have the advantage and he did.
But, Bako is a good backstop…we haven’t had a chance to see if his arm matches Ruiz’s but for a guy that tall and given his age, he is nimble and sets up a great target…even better than Ruiz who I think can set -up to early sometimes imparticular with pitches on the outside corner or for Lidge’s in-the-dirt slider. Not saying he’s going to start a play-off, just throwing alittle love to the back-up catcher.
Lidge don’t bother with the runners
September 5th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Oh no, another x-Phillie
September 5th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Lidge is the most inconsistent closer in baseball.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Grrr…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
I am sorry but F this feelings crap. As soon as Lidge lets two guys on take him out. Period. End of story.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Inconsistent is being nice.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
I AM DONE WITH LIDGE!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Well, we are about to lose again thanks to Lidge. Barring a miracle double play. This is a walk off win for the Astros. I can’t watch this crap anymore with Lidge
September 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Agreed, DC – Charlie probably has gone too far as it its by putting Lidge in now. The least he can do is replace him at this moment. I hope that he can pull it together and he definitely has a chance to do so, but they can’t fool around with this stuff much longer.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Uh…….this is totally not good!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
And another X-Phillie!!!!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Should I go pick up Myers in my Fantasy League?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
is*.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Smart play by Howard. He just saved Lidge’s ass again.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
I’m going to throw up!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Yikes… that was scary…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Yea, Lidge is very inconsistent. Sometimes he is bad, and other games he is horrible. You never know what you are going to get.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
BTW, Matt Capps is blowing it in Pittsburgh right now. So Lidge still doesn’t have the title of worst closer in the league, outright at least.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
stop throwing balls!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Lidge…throw a freaking strike. Its not hard.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Over the plate!!!!!!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Give em the heat
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
k, blown save time
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
oh boy
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Lidge still sucks.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
He is going to walk in the tying run. Blow his 10th save
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
no room idiot!!!!!! Cmon
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Oh F***!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
PLEASE SEND HIM TO THE DL!!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Kaz F’n matsui.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
sob
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
oh well, Lidge will never be good this year
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
I HAVE HAD IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
burning feeling in my gut.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Oh, just say it TMac: LIDGE SUCKS!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
I AM DONE WITH BRAD LIDGE. WE WILL NOT WIN ANYTHING WITH HIM. HE SUCKS! 10 BLOWN SAVES! CHARLIE..GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Somebody needs another fake trip to the disabled list.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Well how bout them apples…
September 5th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
It’s ok guys, let’s all calm down. Lidge converted 3 straight saves before he blew one so its ok. He will come back, convert a few more and then blow another one…except soon, there won’t be a tomorrow and he will blow a game that ends the season. F U Brad Lidge. You were awesome last year and now you are an absolute disgrace.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
I’m about ready to make it a real trip to the DL.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Unfortunately, this cements it. It seemed clear long ago to some of us that a different closer should be used, but now it’s too clear. Lidge could well be a good closer again in the future. Right now, there is too much in the balance for them to keep using him like this.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
This team is a MESS!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
What an utter disgrace Lidge is this year! Do the Phillies really think they are going to win anything with him? He is AWFUL!
September 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
They need to develop technology that allows you to throw a beer at somebody through your television. I would have hit Lidge with one
September 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
That’s it. You can’t stick with Lidge any longer.
If he comes into a game from now on, I am going to stop watching.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
@Ed: He just can’t hack these one-run games. He blows them over and over.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
HA HA HA thats funny…..is that 10 blow saves….ha ha ha…..
September 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
what will it be tonight? “Well, he’s mah closer no matter what..”
or more like “I had it, 21 pitches, 12 for balls… aint gonna happen”
September 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
And the song of the night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv5zWaTEVkI
September 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Everyone but Charlie is done with Brad. Can someone please confirm that Brett is eligible to play in the playoffs?
September 5th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Lidge is never gonna get on a roll, very sad.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
And we have all written sentences like that many times already. It’s just a matter of when Charlie tries to get this mess fixed. We shouldn’t have to wait anymore for that. It isn’t fair to the fans, to the team and to Lidge himself.
September 5th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Charlie should of done something about this after blown save number 6. But no, he allows us to watch this garbage. If he says “Lidge is still my guy.” I am going to yell at him from the stands at the next home game.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
But he will. Don’t you get it. Charlie doesn’t have the stones to take Lidge out. He is going to sacrifice this year in hopes that Lidge appreciates Charlie sticking with him despite everyone with a friggin brain knowing he shouldn’t. Charlie hopes that if he keeps sticking with Lidge that he will get his shit together but he can’t He is beyond getting it together.
I hope Myers punches Lidge out in the shower, maybe breaks a jaw and then takes his job. We all know Myers is crazy enough to do it.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
whats the excuse for lidge now?he has had plenty of rest so thats now out of the question…lidge flat out sucks theirs no other excuse…it should be myers turn to start closing now.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Lidge stinks run him out of philly
September 5th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
.2 innings pitched, 4 baserunners – 2 walks, 2 singles.
What a mess
September 5th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Yes, Brett Myers is eligible for the playoff roster. He was on the DL on Sept 1.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Screw that! we should have walked him and brought in some else at least well could have a possible tie
Ed R. almost. I’ll call you Nostrodamus Jr, for now
boy i hope this doesn’t take the life out of the bats which were just defibed back from the dead.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Brett is playoff eligible
September 5th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
I’m going to go get drunk now.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Oh wow Ed R.! Are you serious? 3 straight saves? I’m sorry if we are going to march into the postseason with a closer who is 0-7 with an ERA of 7+ and 10 BLOWN SAVES, we may as well just throw in the towel now! Lidge is not the answer this year! I don’t care what he did last year, I don’t care what he may do in the future! BRAD LIDGE CANNOT CLOSE THIS YEAR! Unless you want to lose this year, he needs to be replaced with ANYBODY ELSE! Ok, not Madson or Taschner.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
A waste, too, of another quality start by Blanton. The offense still could done better, but at least they showed some signs of improvement. They can’t let one guy keep losing it for them. It’s just inappropriate.
Maybe Lidge got those saves in the last few series, but he gets too few saves on the road. A good closer should pitch at least reasonably well wherever he is called upon.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
I’m just … absolutely sick. The Phils did a tremendous job of coming back from that 3-run deficit in the final innings, and Lidge pulls the rug out from under them again.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
lidge can blow 9 more games and cholly will still say “he’s our guy”.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
the curse of the reality show ‘The Pen’ has ruined Lidge
September 5th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Ed Wade is laughing at the Phillies
September 5th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I thought Brett only punched women? I’m still picking him up in my fantasy league. Playoffs start Monday!
September 5th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Yes Brett can play in the playoffs. When the Phillies signed this Ennis guy and then put him on the inactive list or whatever they did, that opened up a spot on the roster for someone to come up and play in the playoffs. I wish I could explain it better than that but the answer is yes Brett can pitch in the playoffs if they want him too.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Morris, thanks. At least I know that Ruben didn’t screw this team this year.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Get ready for the fall. Hello Braves, goodbye Phils. It is swoon time. Lidge needs to be sent down, down, down.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Lidge could not even beat the little league world series champs
September 5th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
man, if i were his teammate I would be fuming. Someone needs to confronted this guy and go OFF on him. Get off this team.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
I wish there was a way to measure the impact to the team’s psyche of the games Lidge blows. I mean come on dude. We showed a lot of hear tonight and that d bag blows it.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
COME ON RUBEN STEP IN ALREADY AND TELL OUR HILLBILLY MANAGER ENOUGHS ENOUGH ALREADY AND THAT LIDGE IS A JOKE AND HE SHOULD NOT BE CLOSING FOR THE REST OF THIS SEASON.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
When is Charlie going to get it? By sticking with Lidge he is putting the feelings of one guy over the rest of the team. How deflating is it when your team which has been God awful to put it nicely, with RISP finally comes through, takes the lead and then a guy like Lidge comes in and chokes it up…for the 10th time this season.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Just heard Tom McCarthy say “All Charlie can do is watch”. Seriously? Charlie can watch the playoffs disappear if he keeps up this stupidity. WTH? Lidge is done…it’s over for him this year. Not sure if it is mechanical or mental, but he can’t be put in a save situation again this year. Charlie sure as hell can do something besides watching another game be blown by Lights On. He can effing pull Lidge’s pathetic ass out of the game the moment he puts a runner on base. This blind loyalty to Lidge is really becoming embarrassing. Reminds of the fat red headed jackass across the street…everyone sees the problems, except him.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
If you think about it, if Brad Lidge had some balls and integrity himself, he would probably say something to Chahlie – “Yo, dude – it ain’t working as much as we’d like it to, it just aint workin’ – 10 blown saves, an 0-7 w-l record and over 7 ERA – is this some kind of joke?
Does anyone actually believe that going into the post season without a legitimate closer or a decent bench you will last into the second round of the playoffs?
Not a chance. It’s so late in the season now, to break in a new closer (unless he’s as whifty as Meyers) is near impossible to do.
Bench strength? There is nothing there…
September 5th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
marlins are prolly gonna win too so thats what 6 games ahead now.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
But lidge is our closer, he’s all we got.
Maunuel – put your god damn self on the DL you idiot. I’m convinced your buddy lidge has something on you or he’s betting on games…..
Why didn’t you leave meyers in you freakin idiot.
Amaro, if you don’t step in and take lidge out, you have no business as a GM.
Lidge just let the air out of the phillies; he put the knife in and twisted it. A comeback for the ages and lidge, on cue, does his BS thing. Nobody’s that bad……is it on purpose? how can he serve it up all the time? I think the phillies fans are starting to buy up batteries for the next homestand…
September 5th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
If Brad Lidge ever…EVER SEES HE NINTH INNING AGAIN THIS YEAR I WILL LOSE MY MIND
HE CANT GET ANYONE OUT
this better have been Myer’s audition for the closer spot…
STOP USING LIDGE
September 5th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
I agree, Ruben has to step in and do whats right. Charlie’s stubborness is going to cost his team dearly.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Its a shame the phils fight back and that bum of a lidge blows another game
September 5th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Lidge blows his 10th save on the same night that Myers comes back and pitches a scoreless eight. If Myers is not announced as the new closer tomorrow, I would be a) shocked, and b) pissed enough to consider boycotting the rest of the season. Eff this.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Lidge had Geoff Blum 0-2 with no one on and one out. If you cannot challenge Geoff Blum, then you don’t deserve to pitch in the majors. If I hear Cholly still reference Lidge as “my guy” then I am going to personally write a hand-written letter (not an email) to Ruben expressing my disgust in the lack of willingness and devotion management has in winning a championship. This is unacceptable. Baseball is a business. If you aren’t doing you’re job, then you don’t deserve to work/play. I am oozing with anger right now.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
The good news is that BYU-OU has been a pretty good game so far.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
lidge loves to kill a rally just like the pittsburgh game although that ones all on cholly for putting lidge out there not because he sucks but because he should be pitching on 4 straight days.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
*shouldn’t
September 5th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
I honestly think I might stop watching Phillies games until someone publicly states that Lidge is out as the closer. I can’t handle seeing the team let down like this time after time.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
hey we need a closer in our slow pitch fastball league send us lidge
September 5th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
“save 2 and lose 1″
“He’s my gah..”
September 5th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
I would probably be more upset if I were not so heavily sedated. Good old robitussin.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Me not being a Charlie fan wants him fired. Lidge is horrible and for him to still be out there this late with over a 7 era is a disgrace. Myers now should be the guy. 6 Game lead. I hope they freakin blow it to teach this as hole.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Lidge has become a joke in the league. 10 blown games!?!? Are you kidding. Does not deserve to be pitching in the majors!! The Phils look like they are collapsing in front of us.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
i agree cholly needs to realize baseball is a business and when your not performing you lose your job,cholly didn’t have a problem pulling eaton from the rotation when and lidge is eaton bad as of now.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
7 games lead Jeff
8 in the loss column
September 5th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Maybe Charlie knew all along that he couldn’t rely upon Madson and waited until Myers came back before he made the switch? (/giving Cholly the benefit of the doubt)
September 5th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Last year Brad was amazing, but that was last year. The question is was he really that good before last year. Looks like he has blashes of dominance then he falls apart. He gave the phils a magical season last year and this year he sucks, but thats Lidge. No hope for repeating as champions with Brad like this, but hey the way things have looked lately the phils may not even make to the playoffs.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
It doesn’t seem to matter who pitches the ninth inning, no one has stood out and done well. I think Lidge started the year with a knee problem and I guess he has messed up his mechanics. However, I am just sick of spending 3 hours watching a game and he comes in and blows it. Lets remember he has lost the lead and the Phillies have gone on to win and gone on to lose. Those didn’t count as blown saves because he only gave up the tying run. So his year is worse than the record shows. Surely by now he himself has lost confidence. As for those last few saves, how often can you count on a triple play or a homerun ball going just foul? The phillies just need to get up by 3-4 runs, then maybe we can see a win.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
WTF is Manuel going to say at the post game conference – if he has the balls to show up?
September 5th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
3 4 or 10runs ahead lige would still blow it
September 5th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Walter Cronkite eventually came out against the Vietnam War. The situation here is far less grave, of course, but a Philly sports commentator might be on the verge of recommending a change. You’re right – what IS Charlie gonna say tonight?
September 5th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
B-Reed the Phillies don’t need to get up by 3-4 runs. They need to get up by 1 run and thats what they did but Lidge can not close the door. I am sorry, I have tried so hard to be patient and understanding but I have had enough. All the talk from Charlie and Lidge about how Lidge is feeling better, things are coming together, he is locating etc, its all b.s. Just something to put in the papers until he blows another save.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
I think lidge should impeach himself
September 5th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
maybe lidge has stuff on cholly that he can blackmail him with?
September 5th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Even when Jose Mesa was at his worst, he was never this bad.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Myers will get his chance, maybe sooner rather than later.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
A quick question: Did anyone notice that Lidge didn’t one pitch inside to a batter in the 9th tonight? Every pitch was in the middle or outside. That tells me that he’s pitching scared. If you can’t throw inside then you’re afraid of something. Lidge is afraid. He is Rick Vaughn in Major League 2… he has no marbles. He lost whatever made him successful. If you remember how Rick Vaughn solved his problem in the movie, he got his old black glasses and got a haircut. Wait, didn’t Lidge just get a haircut last week? The lesson is that haircuts don’t translate into saves.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
So is it Steve Jeltz for the Brad Lidge award tonight? (No, that is not a typo.)
September 5th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
I hope you are right joedad. I really do.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
I think manuel and lidge should hang it up and amaro should hang his head in shame
September 5th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Its 6.5
September 5th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Just looked up what the major league record is for blown saves which is 14. Anyone want to bet Lidge breaks it? I seriously can’t take it anymore. It’s time for a change and Amaro needs to intervene.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Ed R. – maybe what your college team did with dual closers would work…a Myers/Lidge but instead of lefty/righty…it could be 1 -2 run stituations for myers and 3-4 for Lidge…nah…how bout give the reigns to lidge but have myers in case runners get on. Don’t know but i actually thought about the closer duo in general and concluded that as other relievers would have to fill-in for a resting closer anyway, why not? When a closer falls apart it really can hamstring a team vying for the post season. I am interested in seeing what the Rox do now that Huston Street will miss some time…
September 5th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Actually I think what helped Ricky Vaughn get his stuff back was seeing his old girlfriend. Maybe Lidge needs to find an old girlfriend, rekindle the flame and then save our season. Lidge’s wife will understand. He is doing it for us. That’s not cheating.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
There are a lot of things I will stand for. Mixing up Major League references is not one of them. Pedro Cerrano had no marbles. Tanaka, who came over in the Parkman trade, was the one who told him he had no marbles. Rick Vaughn got all caught up in the commercialism of the game and forgot what it was all about.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Somehow the Rox will have some guy we have never heard of fill in and go perfect in save opps. Just because the universe works that way.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Sounds like what f’ed Ricky Vaughn is what f’ed Cole Hamels.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Major League 2 references at that!
September 5th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Exactly Ed, if you want to compare Ricky Vaughn to anyone, Cole Hamels is the leading candidate. Jimmy Rollins is Willie Mays Hayes. A speedy leadoff guy who tries to hit for power.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
how does dumb cholly still have a job when he continues to allow this to happen no other manager in any baseball would still have lidge out there the guys as bad as they come right now.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
wake the hell up amaro step in be a man a get lidge out of there.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
So then is Charlie like Rube Baker?
September 5th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Good job Lidge.
you are done.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
I don’t know about the true feelings of the Phillies. The look on Werth’s face and Ruiz’s face after a few of these blown saves says it all…..it is pathetic. They bust their butts for 9 innings to have some loser lose the game.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
all the people out of work and you have a dumb a…. like amaro and manuel who continue to believe in lidge
September 5th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Yep, Cholie is like Rube Baker. He gets all excited when he makes the rooster.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Greg V. – RAJ can’t do anything now but bench him. If he wanted to address this issue eariler before the trade deadline he sat on his hands too long…but even then, apparently there is no more money available (i find this hard to believe, but at best we, without insider knowledge, are ultimately speculating.) Also, other contending teams via the waiver process have first dibs over the defending champs (i think…at any rate there’s enough need from teams before us that a quality closer would probably be taken before we could probably say the guy’s name) Even if we traded for a closer, like Hoffman I am uncertain whether he can be added to the post-season roster unless someone is legitamitely injured. As to what passes for “injury” is another issue, but I’m sure we could side-step that if necessary.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
http://www.prestonandsteve.com/picview.php?id=16116
September 5th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
the phils will blow the division if they continue to rely on lidge
September 5th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
see and people thought I was crazy to be concerned about Tim”‘another sinkerballer that baffles our bats” Hudson returning to the Braves rotation
September 5th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
I’ve been out of Philly for 9 years – transplanted to NYC. Been reading this board for 3 months now and I’m hooked – quality material and well thought out blogger comments. I love the fervant Philly spirit, but at the same time I get irritated when I see how quickly fans jump ship on a team, reading some posts in this room. This team sucks – no post season. Awesome team – NLCS here we come. No no wait, yeah dude we suck again, no shot at playoffs at all, nope. I suppose it’s just people letting out their frustrtions, which I appreciate – but enough of the doomsday talk. At times the opinions are as inconsistent as Brad Lidge.
Now – let’s talk about Lidge for a sec. Is he a BUM? Total loser? Worthless? Ehhh, OK this year yeah he looks like he’s been donkey punched while getting dirty sanchezed, but the guy isn’t a *bum*. We, Philadelphians, have a ring and much of that is from Lidge himself. As far as THIS year is concerend, I’m on the band-Lidge-bandwagon. This is remarkably frustrating, watching Lidge pitch so erratically. I hate having to feel aggravated knowing he’s coming out to “close” a game. 25% of the time he closes the door on his own team. Lidge now has 10 blown saves, 7 which were losses (with 25 + games remaining). Extrapolate that to a playoff series – in a 5 game series the Phillies will lose one full game, or put the opposing team in a winning position, due to Lidge. In a 7 game series it’s 2 lost games. Bear in mind the Phillies will most likely lose a game or two where there are no save opportunities. Also consider his performance in the post season with the Astros – there is historical precedence to back these numbers up. So what are we left with? CHP is out (but man is he awesome in nearly every first inning he’s in). Cholly would never do it, as he hasn’t used Ho as a closer yet, and we ALL know how flexible Cholly is to new ideas. Madsen? Punch me in the face – no Madsen. What about Meyers? He’s been nearly lights out in his recent appearances in AAA, and showed compusure tonight with a runner on (something Lidge hasn’t done all effing season). Cholly sticks with his horses – it’s just his way – but the Lidge ordeal comes down to simple math. Hopefully the front office will really think this one through and consider Meyers as the closer. But it has to be sooner than later – Meyers needs to be in playoff shape.