Big Names Top Offseason Wishlist

Posted by Corey Seidman, Mon, November 09, 2009 02:05 AM

Coming up two wins shy of another World Championship was, indeed, a tough pill to swallow, but the Phillies were simply the second best team in 2009. All of the ugly flaws of this team made their way to the surface in the World Series, whether it be a lack of situational hitting, a decrepit bench, or the continued struggles of ‘08 heroes and ‘09 goats, Cole Hamels and Brad Lidge.

Brian Cashman, along with whichever Steinbrenner is currently running the Yankees, spent close to $210 million on the 2009 payroll to limit weaknesses, field a near-perfect team, and win a World Series. Congratulations to the two men and their quarter-billion dollar payroll. The money was thrown around properly and resulted in celebration, and a flustered Mark Teixeira running around the field exclaiming, “We did it!” as if this was a bunch of rag-tag players nobody believed in. To that, I “LOL.”

Room for Improvement

But what I took from the World Series is that, as incredible as the Phillies were this past season, there were still many aspects of this club that needed, and will need, improvement. It’s truly amazing to me that I even sit here writing this piece, as a fan and analyst of a team that had a better year than 28 other clubs, all of which were surely envious of the 2009 Philadelphia Phillies.

Alas, here we are, entering a great time of the year – the offseason. Some call it the “hot stove,” although I don’t really understand why. It’s one of those unexplainable things, you know, like the nickname “Melky” being derived from Eudernyi Cabrera.

The Phillies have the chance this offseason to transform into a near-perfect team. With two consecutive World Series appearances, exponential growth in local and national popularity, and some hefty contracts coming off the books in 2010, Ruben Amaro will have some serious cash to spend in the coming months. If spent properly, there is no reason the Phillies cannot wrap up the NL East early, sweep through the playoffs, and reclaim their rightful trophy from the feminine hands of Johnny Damon and company.

Off the Books

First, let’s take a look at which contracts come off the books next season.

Brett Myers is gone, which is sad in some ways, but necessary in others. The long-time Phillie understood how to endure the expectations and tough-love from Philly fans, probably because he was such a blue-collar guy, himself. I, like all of you I’m sure, wish Myers all the best in his future endeavors, but am glad to see his $12M salary erased from the Phillies payroll.
Also subtracted from the payroll are the $8,833,333 the Phillies were still paying to Adam Eaton, and $6.75M to Geoff Jenkins. Due to buyout provisions, the Phils are still on the hook with both players in 2010, but only for a combined $1.75M.
Matt Stairs made $1M in 2009, but due to declining power and usefulness, he will only receive a minor-league contract from the Phillies next year, if he receives one at all.

Quick math shows that this is $26,833,333 coming off the books in 2010. The Phillies opening day payroll in ‘09 was $113M, fifteen million dollars more than the 2008 opening day payroll. But, according to Mat Swartz, a Phillies fan and writer for Baseball Prospectus with a doctorate in economics from Penn, the Phillies have shown in recent years that they value marginal wins over strict payroll trends.

What this means is, under Pat Gillick and Ruben Amaro, the team has shown a willingness to add players who can contribute a win or two (think Kyle Lohse, Joe Blanton, etc.), because the difference of winning 90 games instead of 88 will also boost regular season AND playoff revenue, making the added contracts well worth the price of admission.

For this reason, it is not unrealistic to expect the Phillies to spend MORE in 2010 than they did in 2009. A payroll between $125M and $135M is, by no means, unreasonable.

Plenty of Raises

Just so we’re all on the same page at this point, let’s recognize that the subtraction of $27M from the contracts of Myers, Eaton, Jenkins, and Stairs would leave the 2010 payroll at $86M. But, we then have to factor in the raises that certain players have that will increase the ‘10 payroll.

Jayson Werth made $2.5M in 2009, and will make $7.5M in 2010. He’s a steal at both prices.
Ryan Howard goes up from $15M to $19M, once again, a steal at both prices.
Chase Utley goes from $11.3 million to $15.3 million.
Raul Ibanez goes from $7.167M to $12.167M.
Cole Hamels’ contract is raised from $4.35M to $6.65M.
Ryan Madson goes from $2.33M to $4.83M.
Finally, Greg Dobbs goes from $1.15M to $1.35M.

All of these raises equal a $23 million payroll increase from 2009 to 2010. When subtracting the $27M from Myers, Eaton, Jenkins, and Stairs, then adding the raises, as well as the $8M option that was just excercised on Cliff Lee’s contract, the 2010 payroll is $108M as of today.

The Arbitration Guys

However, this leaves out the contract statuses of Shane Victorino, Carlos Ruiz, Joe Blanton, Clay Condrey, and Chad Durbin, all of whom are subject to arbitration this offseason. Last year, the Phillies successfully avoided arbitration with guys like Hamels, Howard, Madson, Blanton, etc. by working out deals prior to the hearings.

The following are merely educated guesses based on what players made in 2009, what they will be worth next year, and Ruben Amaro’s preference toward locking guys up during several arbitrations years.

Shane Victorino will likely be signed to a deal similar to that of Jayson Werth (2 yr/$10M.) I could see Victorino getting a two-year deal as well, between $8-10 million. So, his 2010 salary will be in the $4-5M range.
Carlos Ruiz will also likely be signed to a two-year deal, totaling $6M. Can you believe he made $475,000 in ‘09?!
Joe Blanton made $5.475M in ‘09, he will probably settle for around $6.5 in 2010.
The Phillies will likely only keep Chad Durbin OR Clay Condrey, not both. Based on the fact that Durbin would command at least $2.25M next season, while Condrey would make $1M or less, Condrey looks like the more efficient, safer choice.

These theoretical raises to Victorino, Ruiz, Blanton, and Condrey would add approximately $15M to the 2010 payroll, making it $123M.

The Undecideds

This leaves three guys – Chan Ho Park, Scott Eyre, and Pedro Feliz. The Phillies have already contacted Scott Boras about re-signing Park, which, if accomplished, would be a deal worth about $3.5M. Eyre has said that he is undecided, but if he returns, it will be with the Phillies. I’m guessing that he comes back after a stellar 2009. He’ll match his 2009 earnings, making $2M or slightly more.

The decision to decline Feliz’ club option was made over the weekend. If the Phillies had exercised his option, he would have made $5M; the buyout costs just $500,000. Based on a bad offensive second half and a lack of postseason production, I think Ruben Amaro will explore other options at third base. Feliz has been a great defender at the hot corner, but the Phillies could greatly improve their offense by signing or acquiring a better offensive third baseman who will get rid of the “black hole,” as my brother calls it, in the seven-spot.

The Wishlist

Now that the boring part is over, let’s take a look at potential upgrades the Phillies could make. If the contract issues are worked out similar to my hypotheses, the 2010 payroll would be around $125M, before any additions are made. Some tinkering needs to be done, and I believe Ruben Amaro is the right man for the job.

Roy Halladay

You thought you were done seeing his name on this site? Think again. The Blue Jays STILL need to rid themselves of Halladay while he still has some value, and this winter is the time to do it. The pricetag on Halladay will not be as high as it was several months ago, because now the team that acquires him will only have his services for one season. He is a free agent after 2010, a season in which he is scheduled to make $15.75M.

The idea of trading for Halladay is not as unrealistic as you may think. He would be a MUCH better option than John Lackey, the top pitcher on the market that every Phillies writer is seemingly already calling for. Why? Because, A) he is undoubtedly better, and B) he’ll be cheaper.

Lackey likely won’t earn $15.75M or more in 2010, but he will receive a five or six year contract, similar to the value of what A.J. Burnett made. It would be unwise for a team like the Phillies to commit five or six years to a pitcher like Lackey, who will likely not be worth the money several years down the road.

New Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopolous has subtly stated that the Halladay talks will only involve a few teams, because many do not have the finances or young talent to acquire the former Cy Young winner. The Phillies are one of those few teams.

What would it take to get Halladay? After consulting with several other prominent baseball writers, the consensus seems to be J.A. Happ, either Dominic Brown or Michael Taylor, and a fringe prospect. This probably sounds similar to the deal that was once on the table, but keep in mind that Kyle Drabek would stay put, as would either Brown or Taylor.

To those thinking that Happ and Brown/Taylor is still too high a price to pay for one season of Roy Halladay, let’s take a look at a little bit of logic. Having an outfield of Ibanez, Victorino, and Werth means you do not need two great outfield prospects, you only need one, at most. If Brown/Taylor gets traded to Toronto and becomes an all-star, very well. That doesn’t change the fact that both face major roadblocks.

Losing a very good rookie like Happ would be hard, but is there any doubt whatsoever that Halladay is a massive upgrade over Happ? Sure, Halladay would only be around for one year while Happ could be for five, but isn’t the goal to win now, while this nucleus is in its prime and still intact?

At first glance, the notion of trading for Halladay may seem unrealistic, but due to his impending free agency, he is actually a relatively cheap acquisition. Expect the Phillies to once again make a serious push for him.

Adrian Beltre

For a while, I was calling for Chone Figgins. During Game Six of the World Series, I wrote on the Phillies Nation twitter that I would be the campaign manager for “Figgins to Philadelphia 2010.” But Figgins is coming off of a career year, will likely carry a price tag greater than his actual worth, and would realistically be a weird fit with the Phillies. He is more of a leadoff batter than a seventh hitter, so either he, Jimmy Rollins, or Shane Victorino would have to drop in the order. It wouldn’t be an ideal situation.

Adrian Beltre, on the other hand, would be a perfect fit in Philadelphia. He is an incredible defensive third baseman, ranking in the top three in all of baseball in Ultimate Zone Rating in five of the past six seasons. Not only would there be no dropoff in the field from Pedro Feliz to Beltre, there would actually be an improvement. With the exception of 2007, Beltre has finished with better defensive metrics than Feliz in every season since 2004.

Beltre is also a much better hitter than Feliz. Discounting this past season, in which Beltre was limited to 111 games due to injury, the former Mariner and Dodger has compiled a slugging percentage above league-average every year since 2001, hit 25 or more homers four times, and better than 35 doubles three times.

Beltre’s clear flaw is plate discipline, but he represents an upgrade over Feliz in THAT category, too. Beltre’s career .325 on-base percentage is not ideal, but it is a massive improvement over Feliz’ unbelievably low .293 OBP.

Since Beltre is coming off a down, injury-riddled season, he will be much less expensive than Figgins. At age 30, with better speed, power, plate vision, and defense than Feliz, Beltre would be a very nice addition to the Phillies.

J.J. Putz

Putz was awful for the Mets in 2009, so it was no surprise when New York declined his $9M option for 2010. Despite never finding a niche with the Mets and missing half the season with an elbow injury, Putz would be a good low-risk, high-reward signing.

The flame-throwing righty would serve as an insurance policy to Brad Lidge, should Lidge struggle again. Putz’ presence would also allow Ryan Madson to remain the setup man next season, even in the event of continued scuffling from Lidge. As we saw this past season, taking Madson out of his eighth inning role creates a domino effect where every reliever must begin pitching outside his comfort zone. Adding Putz would aid this potential problem.

Since so much uncertainty surrounds the former Mariners closer, Putz will likely command an incentive-laden contract. If he meets many of the incentives drawn out in his contract, you will know that he’s done his job as a late-inning reliever. Signing Putz and letting Durbin or Condrey walk would significantly improve the bullpen.

Yorvit Torrealba

Torrealba is the prototypical backup catcher: he is a powerful right-handed hitter who can be very dangerous when in the midst of a hot streak, but below average defense subtracts some of his value. He would be the ideal understudy to Carlos Ruiz, because he could step in several days a week and actually provide some offense, unlike Chris Coste and Paul Bako in 2009.

Torrealba would also add another semi-dangerous bat to the Phillies thin bench, which was an evident weakness all season.

Nomar Garciaparra/Jason Giambi

I list these two former superstars because the Phillies need experienced offensive threats on the bench. Even at age 36, Garciaparra is still a very good right-handed bat off the bench, and could be had for a reasonable price. He can play first, third, and even shortstop, if necessary.

Should the Phillies choose not to re-sign Matt Stairs, Giambi would be an adequate replacement. Despite our collective affection for Stairs, it should not be overlooked that everything that Stairs does, Giambi does better. The one thing Stairs did do well in 2009 was work deep counts and take free passes, but plate discipline is also Giambi’s strong suit.

Jerry Hairston, Jr.

Hairston is a utility man that can play the infield and outfield. Due to his superior speed and offensive ability, Hairston would be a massive upgrade over Eric Bruntlett. He is also a decent option as a pinch-runner or late-inning defensive replacement.

If the Phillies cannot land Hairston, other upgrades over Bruntlett include: Adam Kennedy, Mark Loretta, Wilson Betemit, and every other living human.

LOOGY

Ruben Amaro should pursue a Joe Beimel-type just in case Eyre retires and/or J.C. Romero fails to recapture his mojo from seasons past. Guys like Beimel can be signed to very cheap contracts, so there should be no excuse to entering next season with few options outside of Romero, Eyre, and guys like Sergio Escalona.

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117 Responses to “Big Names Top Offseason Wishlist”

Mike Schmidt Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:50 am
If the 2009 Yankees are so much better than the 2009 Phillies then A-Rod would have stayed at 2nd base, and Girardi would have stayed in the dugout. Why? Because they are better, and no matter what the call is the Yankees will win anyway.

The 2009 Yankees are not better than the 2009 Phillies, and the reactions of A-Rod and Girardi after the controversal call proves that.

The Philadelphia Phillies are the best team in baseball.
Andrew Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 7:00 am
Is Thome off the books this year or was he off after 2008? I feel like he was a “Phillie” forever…
Scott Kimbel Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 8:22 am
What about a utility player with some pop in his bat? Remember the 2007 divisional series against the Rockies, the player that sealed the deal for them was Jeff Baker. He’s since been traded to Chicago and continues to put up pretty good numbers and can play outfield or the left side of the infield. Is there any interest in him?
Mike in 314 Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Very well written. I agree with almost all of your points. Just a general thought, though, and you certainly aren’t the first to posit the view: The Yankees fielded a $210M team which helped them get to the World Series. But the players who beat the Phillies weren’t the $80M signed this offseason, for the most part. They were stalwarts like Jeter, Rivera, and Pettitte, plus a couple of the former signings (A-Rod, Matsui and Damon). I think people overplay the Sabathaia, Burnett and Texiera signings. Good blog, though. I enjoyed it.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I believe Thome was off the books after the 2008 season. Corey, you must have been reading my posts lately. I also identified Beltre,Halladay, Putz and Torrealba. Personally I think Lackey is not worth whatever money he is going to get. I hope the Phillies don’t go after him, they just got rid of a head case, they don’t need another one. You want to talk about a guy who stares down his defense when they don’t make a play, Lackey has made it an art form.

I agree, that if it costs us Happ, Brown/Taylor and someone else for Halladay I make the deal and I am thrilled about it. Let’s Halladay walk and you get two draft picks out of the deal. Toronto will be awful so they will be high picks too. I like Happ, a lot but Happ is not the guy that can win you a series. Halladay is and by the time Happ’s contract gets to be bigger, the other core players of this team will be in their decline. You have to try and win now.

I would also consider DeRosa as a super sub, he can play everywhere but CF, P and C.

Giambi would be a nice addition as someone who could play 1B every so often, as well as DH during Inter League play and he can work a count.

I’d love to see the Phillies sign Putz, he was pretty darn good as a closer in Seattle.

F.A’s can’t sign until November 15th I believe?

Also, Lee’s option was for 9mil, not 8.
Evan Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Both Figgins and Beltre would be good upgrades at 3rd. I don’t think Figgins is a bad idea if he can be signed for a fair price. He’s going to get on base a lot and he is fast. Jimmy absolutely does not belong in the 1 spot of the order. He doesn’t get on base enough to leadoff and that adds up to a lot of runs that aren’t going to be scored. He can hit for power too, so it makes a lot of sense for Jroll to be hitting with guys on base.

As for Halladay, nobody is going to complain about any prospects the Phils give up to get him when the season opens and the first three starters are Lee, Halladay, and Hamels. The fans might complain later if things don’t work out, but not for awhile.

The pen is probably the worst mess for 2010. Put isn’t the answer. he
s on the decline. He was playing hurt last year but he’s definitely a question mark this year. I wonder if any of the minor league talent that we saw briefly in 09 will be a big part of the pen next year. Escalona and Bastardo come immediately to mind. How long will Brad Lidge’s leash be in 2010 and will someone be there to take his place so the Phils don’t end up blowing saves for an entire season?
JR Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Beltre had an OPS of .683 last year, and .779 career.
Feliz had an OPS of . 694 last year, and .715 career.

Let’s not forget that Feliz carried a .300+ BA for a bit this summer, and was the Phils leading hitter w/RISP for much of the year.

I don’t see Beltre as an offensive upgrade by any means. He’s a cost effective compromise over Figgins. I’d rather have Figgins switch hitting in the 7 hole. (Figgins OPS of .789 last year, .751 career).
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 9:45 am
How is Beltre not an offensive upgrade? More homers, more rbi, higher OPS, high OBP, higher career batting average than Feliz. Oh and he has won 2 gold gloves and is 4 years younger.
Manny Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Great, great article. JJ Putz (forgot about that guy) would be neat. Personally, I think Feliz and Beltre is a wash. Jerry Hairston Jr: great idea. Basically, I agree with nearly everything, except for the Roy Halladay trade. We have Lee and Hamels. Lee is an ace, no doubt about it. And Hamels has the potential and the talent (and the history, let’s not forget) to be an ace, too.

I’m very, very comfortable with our rotation as it is. Lee and an improved Hamels is a fantastic 1-2 punch (arguably the best one in the league), followed by Blanton and Happ (those two are much, much better than your typical 3-4 starters). That being said, I understand the logic for a Halladay trade (it makes a lot of sense to give up one of your OF prospects)… but I just wouldn’t pull the trigger. Our core is still relatively young, and our window for another championship goes well beyond next season.
David Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Good article. Looks like you did your homework. I don’t think Putz will be a cheap sign though. I’d expect someone to give him a shot at closer with a 3-4 year deal, so long as his injuries are healed. Id be shocked if Vic signed for a 2 year 10 contract. He is a top CF and will want to get paid like it (Aaron Rowand anyone). But otherwise, I thought you were pretty accurate with your assesments.

@Mike Schmidt, the yankees were the best team in baseball this year by every measure. They won the most games in the toughest division, in the best league in baseball. Im a NL guy, but theres a reason the NL loses every all star game every year. The AL is just better and so are the Yanks this year. Being a sore loser about it just makes phils fans look like babies.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Hamels and Lee are a great 1-2 if Hamels is back to his 08 form but they need a solid right handed pitcher. Blanton is good, and consistent but he is not a guy that is going to go out and end a losing streak. Halladay is that guy, he is a stopper. If you can add him for guys that are not going to make you significantly better by having them, then why wouldn’t you want to trade for him?
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Wouldn’t be shocked to see the Phillies go after Valverde, head case and all.

I think Beltre will end up with the Twins, they have wanted him for a while and after the added Hardy they are obviously showing they want to improve their offense.
Keith E Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Chooch better get a BIG raise$$$. 450K is more than stealing! The Phils owe him $6mil in back pay alone!
This year’s season ended because our best players were not our best players. Talent has nothing to do with not repeating as WFC. Lack of production from our most talented players was the problem. If we give Pedro some run support in game 2 and Hamels’ head is somewhere other than in the clouds in game 3 things are very different. We have the team to beat. They under-achieved in the WS. I would take this team as it was at the end of the season and run them out there in April and not be worried, they are that good in my prejudiced eyes.
GO PHILS!!!
The Original Chuck P Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Disregard Spankee…

I’m ok either way with Feliz- 80+ RBI is good enough for me out of the 7 hole. The guy came up with some pretty big clutch hits for us. I would call this an average year for Feliz… maybe he’s on the decline… I like him but I could live with a solid defensive third basemen with more pop like Beltre ASSUMING he’s going to fit in with this team. I trust Ibanez and Gillick to be able to give us a solid assessment of the guy.

I don’t see how we could afford Roy Halladay AND a third basemen if the 2010 payroll with raises ex-Feliz starts out at $125 million… as much as I would like to have Halladay, I don’t see it happening. If there’s any way that it can be done, it should be done but we need a third baseman and probably bullpen help before we need Roy Halladay.

No Figgins, please… he’s not a good fit here. He’s got some versatility but he’s inconsistent. He also seems to be a little bit weak (not sure how he would fit in on the east coast).
Manny Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Exactly, Original.

Halladay, Lee, Hamels… that’s simply over the top… an unnecessary (and very expensive) risk which puts too much pressure on winning it all in only one year (2010). Chances are that both Lee AND Halladay, under that scenario, would be gone after 2010. I’d rather see the Phillies try to sign Lee for an extra year instead… so we can have Lee + Hamels for 2010 and 2011, at least.
Maverick Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:36 am
The problem with Feliz is the Postseason. He’s a poor mans AROD.

In 108 Career Post Season AB’s he has 22 Hits and 21 Strike Outs! with only 9 RBI’s! And his BA is a solid .204

I can only imagine how many runners he has left on base..
TODDFROMFAIRMOUNT Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:41 am
I really cant wait to see the final skankee payroll number after bonuses and luxury payoffs. Laughable. I’m gonna miss Feliz, I always loved that security a 3B.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Manny are you an Eagles fan? I have a point to the question.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Plus the Yankees will sign Lackey so add his 15 mil to their payroll. But again, baseball allows for it.
Maverick Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:44 am
ED i think i know where your going with that
dudley monk Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:51 am
I love this arm-chair managing stuff. So many options here that I never thought of, and they really do make sense. However, I do think getting Roy Halladay for Happ and a prized minor leaguer for just one year is scary.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 10:54 am
I agree monk, its scary but I think its a calculated risk. If the Phillies don’t make the move I certainly wouldn’t curse them for it. It’s a move I think they should make, I don’t know that its one they have to make. Though I think it might be.
A Train Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 11:27 am
If the Phils get Halliday, I could play 3rd base and they’d win 95 games. IMO…if the team goes into 2010 with Lee, Hamels, Happ, Blanton and Kendrick/Moyer/Carpenter/etc. they will win the NL East and probably make it to the WS. This year proved, however, you need 2 STUDS to win the WS. Lee is a stud. Hamels MAY be a stud. Blanton and Happ are not studs. If Ruben is really serious about winning in 2010, he will go after Halliday. If he doesn’t, he’s making pitching moves with his fingers crossed.

It sure was nice seeing a ground ball to 3b these last couple of years and know it was going to end up at Ryan Howard’s chest. Pedro was very good and very steady. That said, Beltre is great at 3b and would be an upgrade to Pedro. Don’t know much about his injuries, though. Figgins would also be an upgrade (more offensively than defensively). I would hope he would lead off and move Jimmy to 7 where he could spark the bottom of the order.

I like some of the ideas listed in the post. The bench improvements can’t be underestimated. If Chase or Jimmy got hurt this past year, we had NO viable replacement. Injuries to either of those 2 could cost us a lot of games.

I like Hairston a lot. I like Nomar (but I read he wants to stay on the left coast) but I don’t like Giambi.

I’ve been hoping the Phils land G Atkins for a while now. He can play most IF positions as well as LF and would be a great RH bat.

Don’t forget about Scott Matheson. He should help out in the BP next year. He’s been very good since coming back from surgery.

If the payroll gets too high, I would consider moving Raul. I love the way he plays the game. But since we have Ben F. and Taylor, he is the guy making a lot of money (11 mil?) who can be replaced without losing too much.

My kids are making their Christmas lists. I guess I should start my own.

Let’s see…Roy Halliday…Adrian Beltre…Jerry Hairston…
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Why is Durbin going to make $2.25 Million next year??
NickFromGermantown Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Honestly, the Phils need more help in the bullpen than they do with starting pitching. Sure, getting Halladay would be a temporary coup, but what it comes down to is that the players on this team still have a lot of great seasons left. This team is more akin to the 1978 Phillies than the 1983 Phillies. There’s no reason to panic and sell the future so we can get one year out of Halladay. Sure, he’s a great pitcher, but so long as Hamels rights his ship and Happ doesn’t have terrible sophomore slump, we are set up very well going forward with starting pitching.
Jesus Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Anyone willing to take a flyer on Harden? I know he is an injury risk but would like to take a chance on him. 6mill with incentives for 1yr? Would be perfect to follow Lee because he is only good for 6 innings most of the time so the pen should be rested after Lee’s starts. I like the Putz, Beltre and Giambi ideas a lot. For a utility player how about going after Bobby Crosby? Can rest pretty much everyone in the IF and will give us somewhat of a RH bench bat other than Francisco. I don’t want Torrealba, I may be alone but don’t mind Bako as a backup. Could rest Chooch against tough righties.
Manny Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Hey, all I’m saying is bullpen, 3B, and bench really are our priorities. Halladay would be awesome. But think of the implications: after one season, we’ll be left with no Lee (cause instead of giving him a 2011 deal we had to spend that money in Halladay for 2010), and no Halladay…. plus no Happ (cause you just traded the guy as well).

The more I think about the Halladay thing, the less sense it makes.

I feel like some here are becoming too spoiled…
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
I doubt Bako is under contract for next season?? I think he signed a one-year minor league contract with us … I would be surprised if he comes back for a second year.. but maybe they need the cheapest available option, and if he’s the winner.. no complaints out of me.. he did a nice job last year
bfo_33 Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Don’t look now, but this team is getting a little long in the tooth. Vic is the youngest starting position player at 29. I think the Phils “as is” have realistic potential for a few more seasons of October baseball, but then it is going to get old all at the same time. I expect players to age the same way they did in the pre-steroid era, peak at 30-32, then go down – some faster than others.

Halliday may sign for 3 years – wouldn’t trade for him unless an extention could be worked out. As much as I like Victorino, he’s where he’s going to be – excellent fielder, good speed (but not a great basestealer), completely incapable of situational hitting. If possible, package him with Happ and a lower level prospect for Roy, bring up Taylor to right, Werth to center. Then find whomever for a fifth starter. Ibanez’s contract is likely trade prohibitive, which isn’t a bad thing, but he’s here for another two years.
Pedro is cheap at 3rd for what he brings, esp if it can be negotiated down a bit. Start looking for a younger replacement for 2011 or 12 (don’t think Beltre or Figgins is a long term answer). Then get a utility infielder with some pop who can play the middle infield (Derosa). Dobbs had an off year, but expect more out of him next year, spell Howard and Feliz more to get a few at bats and give them a break. Then Fransisco and a left handed OF for the bench.

Somebody mentioned this year’s team is more like 78 than 83 – I disagree. Last year’s team is more like 80. If we stand pat with the starting 8, we have the potential to repeat the late 80s.
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
If they traded for Halladay.. they would first need to make sure that either Halladay or Lee signs an extension past this season ..

Since it would take either Happ or Drabek to get him.. you would lose

Drabek and Lee before the start of the 2011 season

in return you would still have Halladay.. but he’ll become less effective as the years go on .. he is in the tail-end of his prime .. not past it, but he’s been in his prime for the past few seasons

I don’t know what type of pitcher Happ really is .. and for a great return, I wouldn’t mind moving him .. but I fully expect Hamels to return to form after getting his arm rested this offseason.. and the thought of Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Drabek is awesome
Georgie Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Corey, are you saying you don’t remember the good old days when men (the little women were barefoot and pregnant) used to hang out at the corner store and sit around the coal stove in the winter and talk about baseball?
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Don M is absolutely correct. The only way the Phillies trade for Halladay is if they can get him or Lee to sign past 2010. But just because you trade for Halladay doesn’t mean you can’t afford to resign Lee. What Halladay makes in 2010 has nothing to do with what they can offer Lee in 2011. It is going to take at minimum 50 – 60 mil over 3 years to resign Lee.

I can’t see Toronto seriously asking for Drabek, not with Halladay being a one year rental. Happ, Taylor/Brown and another mid level pitching prospect will get it done. That is of course just my feeling. I have nothing to actually back that up.
bfo_33 Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
While bullpen performance is critical, planning for it is overrated. With the exception of closer, there is really no way to tell how the group is going to perform. The Phils had one of the best in 2008, one of the worst in 2009. Even the Yankees, who had a great regular season pen, had a terrible post season one.

The best weapon for your bullpen is to limit the opportunities for the other team to see the guys – starters going 7 +. Lee and Halliday would help the bullpen performance far more than Putz.
Robbi p Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Two words Dan Uggla at Third! He’s Younger then Beltre, he’s a big righty bat and he’s an old school player!

I want a phillies Uggla Jersey hahaa!!!!

Rob president of Bring Uggla to Philly committee
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Excellent article.

1. IF you can get Halladay for Happ, Taylor and a fringe prospect, do it ASAP just make sure he signs an extension(which I think he would). the Phils would have a shot with Lee, Halladay and Hamels vs Sabathia, Burnett and Lackey.

2. Sign Soriano or Valverde. Putz is an interesting option, but the Phils need insurance for Lidge.

3. If Derosa can’t play every day as Pat suggests he’d be great as an uber utility guy as suggested.

4. Since I just spent all the extra money, resign Feliz for 3-3.5 million.
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
FYI, in his career Roy Hallday has pitched only 6 games on 3 days rest. However 27 KOs, 1 BB with a opponent BA of .238. In other words he could pitch games 1, 4 and 7, Lee 2 and 5, Cole 3 and 6. Pretty darn formidable.
beta sigma shag Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
IMO you do not trade Happ for 1 year of anybody. Like I said all of last year with Halliday, if you can resign him for3 years you maybe make the trade. I feel Hamels will be back in form next year, but that is the question you have. If he does than Lee Hamels is a great 1-1a punch to have. I also would like to know how they feel about some of the Minor league guys helping in the pen. Can Bastardo be a big time reliever. I would hate to trade 3 to 5 years of Happ for one year of Halladay.
I posted it earlier but will say it again. Jimmy will be your lead off hitter next year, and I think they will re sign Peter Happy to $3-4 million next year, with team option for 2011.
Definatly need utility player to replace Bruntlett, even though I am one of few people on here that likes the guy. Delrosa would be nice. I liked Harrington Jr last year and think he would be a good fit.
And why isn’t anyone on here afraid Beltre and his injuries, Pedro has only missed a handfull of games in the past 3 years due to injury. And he just came back for surgery, and played alot this past season. I want Peter Happy back.
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Sorry, bad data on my Halladay post. lee and Hamels cannot go on three days rest so a 4th pitcher is needed.
Jeff of Nova Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Robbi you are on crack

I think going after Halladay is wise, cause when do you remember one of the big name BP names out there other than a closer really make a splash as advertised. Limit the amount innings your bullpen has to pitch that makes it easier to be effective all year.

Torre was unable to win WS in his last years in NY, cause he had marginal starters and his BP was overworked, much like ours this year
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Beta, I have high hopes for Scott Mathiason. At AA Reading

19.1 innings, 10 hits, 7bb 17 kos, . 97-98 mph fastball. Went more than 1 innings several times.
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Havin trouble with my brain today Mathisasons era was 1.39. HIs whip was .88(very imperssive).
Matt Kwasiborski Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
They have to make a run at Halladay. If it costs Happ and Taylor then go for it. I say trade Happ/Vic for Halladay and Vernon Wells too. The Jays want to rid themselves of that contract and we take it on for now.

I am sorry but I feel more comfortable with a rotation with Halladay in it over Happ in it. I love Happ but he will never be on the same par as a #1 starter.
Ryk Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
What do you all think about Joel Piniero? He’s coming off a very nice year, so he may be expensive, but you can’t argue with these numbers…..4th in NL in wins (15), 214 IP, 3 CG, 3.49 ERA, and 7th in NL in WHIP (1.14). He’s only 31, so he’s got at least a 3-year deal left in his tank.
joedad Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
I want no part of Putz. He is coming off two injury plagued seasons in a row. Beltre was a one year wonder who got paid $60 million and regressed back to a Feliz type offensive player and is coming off an injury. He would be more expensive than Feliz and I question both his durability and his incentive. I’d rather bring Pete back than Beltre.

They could certainly use an upgrade at starter. Halladay is the dream acquisition, but I will not hold my breath. He would probably want to sign an extension before agreeing to a trade similar to Santana with the Mets. I don’t see the Phils committing to him unless talks with Lee go south and they think he will test the free agent market. Lackey isn’t out of the realm of possibility. There won’t be too many teams offering free agent contracts due to the economy so 3 years might get it done.
joedad Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Mathiason’s been hurt a few times so they can’t count on him. Anything he can give is gravy at this point.

Uggla has no shot of being on this team unless he has pics of Amaro menage a troi-ing with Arod the Centaur and Kate Ho-dson.
bfo_33 Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
The rotation is also too lefty. Bring in Halladay (if he’ll sign an extension), then you split Lee and Hamels or Happ. Pitching them back to back in any order probably means the 2nd guy is going to get lit up – they are just too alike. Blanton is serviceable as #4, not as #2, then Kendrick or a scrap heap find at 5 (don’t need a 5th pitcher until May anyway, so you have some time to look). I wonder if Toronto would take Hamels and Vic over Happ and Taylor/Brown?
Robbi p Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
I may be on crack but I’m not the only person that has mentioned it
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/phillies-notes.html
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
I thought Mathiason only had the Tommy John Surgery? They tried to make him a starter. I think(emphasize think) he’ll be fine in the Pen.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
The last thing the Phillies need is someone with no plate discipline who K’s twice a game and was a horrible 3B in college/minors. I’d take Feliz back over Uggla anyday.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Mathieson will be very solid in the pen. You heard it here first, future closer.
Corey Seidman Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
I personally hate the idea of adding Dan Uggla to this lineup. In addition to having little major league experience at third base, he is strikeout-prone, which is the last thing you need in this lineup.

The return of Mathieson should not be overlooked. According to Keith Law, ESPN’s resident minor league expert, Mathieson was one of two players that really stood out during the first few weeks of the Arizona Fall League.

Joel Pineiro – I’d say no. Career year, won’t duplicate that success or those numbers at CBP.

To whoever said it – Bako is not under contract next year, Durbin will make 2.25M because he is in line for a slight raise, and Valverde likely won’t be dealt for, at least not by the Phillies.

A rotation of Lee-Halladay-the Artist formerly known as Cole Hamels-Blanton-Pedro/Kendrick/Moyer would put this team over the top, for a low cost. I think it’s a no-brainer, you do it.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Wishlist:

1 – Adrian Beltre (decent enough to replace feliz, saves money for other positions), should be easy to sign

2 – Jose Valverde – try to sign him, if/when he tries to ask for too much money
2A – Rafael Soriano

3 – Right Handed Startng Pitcher with some quality – NOT Lackey, Drabek not ready yet. You will have to trade for one: I would trade Shane Victorino as the centerpiece of the package. He is great defensively and has good speed. But he is a TOTAL dumbo and makes bonehead decisions that cost games sometimes. He still has value on teh trade market: Sell High for Pitching. Id consider trading JA Happ or Domonic Brown as well, not Taylor. Halalday may be too pricey, but there could be some others out there too.

4 – Left-Handed reliever – whoever is decent and cheap enough at the same time

4 – Torreabla – thats a great idea I hadnt thought of before, a definite upgrade who has pop at the same time as a pinch hitter

6 – LH bench power bat to replace Stairs – any ideas? Cheap, veteran bats with pop?

7 – Remaining OF Prospect (Taylor) is promoted to major league roster to replace Shane Victorino

8 – Pay Jamie Moyer to retire and go away.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Do NOT get Dan Uggla. Isnt Valverde A Free Agent?
T Mac Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I agree with bf0_33 in that the Phillies regulars are getting “older” quickly as a group. The front office should make it a priority to bring in 1-2 younger up and coming players every year to make the team championship caliber not just for a year or two, but for the next 5-6 years. Two places to look at – left field and third base, where the oldest starters from last year played. Also, if you look around the rest of the diamond, it’s hard to see any turnover for younger players for quite a few years.

First priority should be to deal Ibanez while his trade value is high and you can unload a contract that will be an albatross by the third year. I like Raul, but we don’t need him, and if we can free up that money we can definitely afford Halladay. What I would like to see is a straight up trade of Raul for a good third base prospect who is only a year or two away from making an impact in the majors. Many big market teams could use a productive LF like Ibanez, including the Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets. As we have Francisco/Dobbs and Taylor/Brown for next year, I think that’s more than adequate if it means we could afford and pick up Halladay for Taylor/Brown, Happ, and a low level prospect.

So who would play third next year? There are plenty of older guys who can be a stopgap measure for a year or two and won’t need to make any more than Pedro was going to get paid if his option gets picked up.
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Valverde is an FA. I agree with geoff Verde 1, Soriano 1a.

Mathiason’s Winter league stat line:
7 games, 8.2 innings, 8 hits, 11 kos, 4 bbs 3.12 era.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
I dunno if you could find a taker for Ibanez until the trade deadline or this offseason…they may try.
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
If they replace Pedro Feliz.. it won’t be for someone that isn’t good defensively .. so Uggla is OUT

I think right now Beltre would be the prime candidate.. very good defender.. and although his power numbers are down.. he still hits LHP very well, so it would help greatly to balance out that lineup.

I really don’t think we’ll be able to afford Figgins.. but a move like that would enable us to drop Rollins or Victorino down in the order.. making the lineup more dangerous

Victorino is the better contact hitter, so you would imagine he would continue to hit 2nd? .. the next logical spot for Rollins would be 7th .. maybe 6th.. I don’t know if they want to both ADD PAYROLL.. and FLIP THE LINEUP that much at the same time..

…
Anyone see what the “trades” might be anywhere? … I would imagine the Rockies have room to deal Atkins or Stewart? .. would definitely ask for Happ and Domonic Brown in return … and that’s too high a cost
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Atkins will be non-tendered, so they wont ask for that much Id think….Stewart is better in their eyes, and cheaper…
Corey Seidman Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Garret Atkins gets worse every year. Not the answer. Plus, that means we would have to hear about him being Utley’s roomate at UCLA approximately 4,946 times per year.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Figgins will be too much money I agree. Beltre should provide good value and pop at CBP. being a seattle guy, I think Gillick will advise them to sign him.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
The Rockies are high on Stewart, he isn’t going anywhere. Atkins will probably get traded. Not sure what they are going to ask for but he can be had. I’d take him.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Atkins is terrible defenensively. So bad that a few years back they moved him to First Base at the end of the season until he lost weight.
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Maybe Beltre doesn’t want to leave the west coast though…

I know the Rockies are high on Stewart.. but if the Phillies are willing to move big talents.. the Rockies would possibly be willing to move something in return

I dont know how Atkins would be any improvement over Feliz.. but im not sure what other teams have any reason to trade a 3b ..

who else has two players capable of playing that position besdies the Rockies.. Rangers are going to let Hank Blalock go.. but that doesn’t help us, he’s Left-Handed and not that good..

Miguel Tejada is definitely an interesting name.. so is DeRosa since they’ve both been linked here so many times before in trade talks..
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
I should qualify that by saying that I would take Atkins as a backup and not my everyday 3B. Atkins can play a few different positions.
George Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
The Phils may be growing old together, but with the exceptions of Feliz and Ibanez, most everyone else is still under thirty. I won’t worry too much for at least another four years.

I also wouldn’t worry too much about adding Halliday. I’d trade high level prospect(s) for upgrades elsewhere. Phils have no third base prospects, Lidge and Werth are not locks to be around beyond 2010, Ibanez is pretty darned old. Teams do need to be aggressive if only because of losses of free agents from their own roster, but they also have to be intelligent. Losing Lee long term to gain just one year of Halliday is worse than a wash.

I could easily trade Happ. He’s old for a rookie, could suffer the sophomore jinx, and might be at his peak in terms of trade value.

What the team needs now are bench upgrades and bullpen options. I agree that bullpen planning is unpredictable and overrated; that’s why you need a multitude of arms and options.

One last note: much has been made of the fact that the Yankees’ off season additions didn’t figure much in their world series victory. I say that without Tex, CC, and Burnett, the Phils likely would have been playing the Angels, and probably would have won.
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Yuck on Atkins.

Not much out there yet for left handed power in the outfield. Can Huff play in the field or is he strictly DH? Maybe take a flier on Chavez and hope he returns to his old form. He’s been awful recently but wasn’t that injury realted?
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Except Lidge has a guaranteed contract that runs through 2011 at high cost, so good luck trading him unless he gets back to form.. but then why trade him at all if thats the case?
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Chavez and Huff arent good enough to play on teams trying to win the WS, even as bench players.
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
The more I think about Werth, the more it makes sense to move him after next season

You’ll miss his production greatly..but with the rising costs of Utley, Howard.. and pitching ..

there will come a time that you have to pick-and-choose who stays and who goes. Since our Top Prospects also happen to play corner-OF spots.. and Werth will soon be making $10+ M per season .. I just don’t see a way they can keep him

Unless Lee signs a cheap extension, and Drabek is actually the greatest pitcher of all-time
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
I think for whatever reason… the week-long layoff before the World Series hurt us more than our lack a bench-depth ..

Our bench is actually one of the best in baseball .. but because our everyday players were having such great years (and stayed healthy) our bench guys were never able to get into any kind of rythym
The Original Chuck P Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
RAJ has to have a game plan in mind… to me, the formula for success is four pronged:

- two solid starting pitchers (Lee and ?)
- the bats of Utley, Howard, Werth plus one more bat to protect them (Ibanez will eventually hand the torch to Michael Taylor)
- build a defense around J-Roll and Chooch
- depth in the bullpen

So the untouchables are Lee, Utley, Howard, Werth, Chooch, J-Roll and Ibanez, for now. In my opinion, you can fill the rest of the roster with slick fielding monkeys and score enough runs to win 90 games. If you have two solid starting pitchers, you stand a decent chance of winning postseason series’. In order to win the WS, we’ll eventually need to add a power bat but I think that we’re better off looking for one at the trade deadline (similar to what the Dodgers did signing Thome midseason… extra pitchers are very important in the NL and I can’t see us wasting a roster spot on a DH type). I think that Brown can replace Vic in the OF… we don’t need him to hit .300, just play the field, be patient at the plate and make some noise when you get on base. I also think that Pedro is not untouchable but we should be looking for defense at 3B.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Werth will be a free agent after next season I believe…
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Power Bats arent easy or cheap to find man, its almost as hard to find as pitching. I mean, like Werth as a FA would be out of our current price range almost.
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
One of the best benches in baseball? LOL. 2 of the 5 bats batted under the mendoza line. two of the other three batted below .250. That’s putride. Fransisco was a huge upgrade, but we need two more. bruntlett and Stairs were awful. You need backups that can hit, not just feild.
joedad Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Nothing will top the all time best of trading Werth for Bobby Jenks. This time of year is when fans are most creative with such suggestions as:
1 – Trade Hamels and Vic for Halladay
2 – Trade Ibanez and replace with Taylor
3 – Atkins or Stewart for Happ and Domonic Brown (not a suggestion but silly to see)
4 – Trade Vic and replace with Taylor

The only way the Phils trade Hamels, Vic, Ibanez and to a lesser extent Happ is if they see a glaring weakenss somewhere. 3rd base can be plugged with a number of free agents. They could go to spring training with the same starting staff. The bullpen needs fine tuning, not an overhaul. Bench players are bench players. Why tear apart a winner to add any of these pieces?
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Hamels wont be traded.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
They could get away with trading Vic for top of the line pitching though, to be honest.
NickFromGermantown Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I want everyone to stop for a second to realize how ridiculous it would be if the Yankees sign Lackey. I think that would be a slap in the face to just about everyone.
Pat Gallen Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
If the Yankees sign Lackey, baseball should immediately stamp a hard salary cap on the sport. Should that be allowed to happen? No. Thats not even me being bitter, its just bad for the sport.
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Well Pat, apparently MLB disagrees with you, they seem to love the Yankees hanging over blank checks to the sports best. Not that Lackey is the best but you get the idea.
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
psujoe … read the rest of my post

anyone that doesn’t think not-playing didn’t directly cause the lack of hitting by our bench players, doesn’t know baseball..

guys need to play if they are going to be expected to produce… look how the lack of game-situation, live-pitching hurt us in the World Series

Now think about a guy like Dobbs, who at times didn’t see live pitching for a week or more at a time.. and then all of sudden gets called upon in the 8th inning of a game and is expected (by fans) to drive in a few runs against a pitcher throwing 95mph
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Are the Yankees actually said to be pursuing Lackey… or are people just throwing out What-If scenarios ??

I heard the Yankees didn’t have any money, and would worry about resigning their own players more than spending money on outside Free Agents..
Bebin Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
So what you’re saying is

get halladay- 16 million
get beltre- 5-7 million
get putz -4 million
Torrealba- 2-3 mill
garciparra – 2 mill
Hariston – 3 mill
another reliever 1-2 mill

this all equates to roughly 34-38 million dollars (thats as much as the marlins cap space) so in the end the cap would be around 160 mill…not a huge price to pay but still do you think the Front office will go for that….I’m not sure it would go down the way you laid it out….but a man can dream can’t he…. but this would be my dream off season

1.Another Starter- Roy Halladay would be a dream come true but adding another starter even if its a guy like Rich Harden, Kelvim Escobar, doug davis, would be fine with me

Halladay,Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Scrub- pretty good rotation if you ask me

2. Two relievers- One with closing exp. and a Left hander

Putz would be nice but you know who I wouldn’t mind seeing
Takashi Saito…the dude is plain amazing he’s nearing 40 but he’s still got it….he’ll be a free agent this yr if the bosox don’t pick his option up

A guy like Rafael betancourt, danys Baez or Joe beimel should also be on the radar

Eyre should be signed also so in the end our bullpen would look something like this

Erye, (Chan Ho/Joe biemel/betancourt), Madson, Lidge, Romero, Mathieson, Kendrick and putz/saito

3. I really don’t mind Feliz as the third baseman but beltre in a phillies uniform sounds amazing

4. Backup Catcher – torreabla sounds good the more and more I think about it

5.Bench – Garciapara is the man to fill this spot….Giambi is best suited in the Al where he will ikely go to play for some trashy team like the royals….Chad Tracy should also get a look

As for the second bench player jerry hariston is a great player to fill that spot, if that doesn’t work out there’s always utility man extraordinaire Ryan Freel who should be better, if he comes back to the NL
Ed R. Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Don, rumors are a buzz that the Yankees are going to go hard after Lackey as they don’t think they have any pitching past Sabathia and Burnett.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Valverde is a Type A free agent, so I doubt they will sign a type A this year. Obvuiosly Figgins and Lackey are A’s, they wont be pursued. Rafael Soriano is a type A, so take him off of our list.

I think the Phillies would like a first round pick this year, just a guess.

Beltre is a B, De Rosa is a B
joedad Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
The Yankees and Lackey make sense. They had to coax Pettitte to come back last year and he may be retired again?? If so, they won’t have a #3 and they always try to buy the best free agents available.

Of course Lackey’s agent would love to spread that rumor to help inflate his coast a bit.
j reed Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Yankees going for Lackey is like Randolph and Mortimer Duke cornering the market on frozen orange juice. I wouldn’t it put it pass them. Something has to happen with this line-up….we got bitch slapped by Petite…..twice, Sorry post season record or not, the stuff he threw at us just wasn’t impressive, what was impressive is how bad we blew it. beltre is a better 3rd basemen and Feliz isn’t exactly injury risk free….he had back surgery last off season and many back surgeries have notoriously high failure rates. Beltre has spent the last 5 years facing Angels pitching and played in pitchers park.
Also keep in mind everyone but Madson were on the DL at some point last year. Also don’t come crying when Happ comes down to earth. He isn’t as good as his ROY type year suggests. Do you think that the league will still be fooled by the IN-VIS-A-BALL for much longer. Once that is up you got an 88mph meatball up in the zone, a get me over slider and nice change-up (at this point Dubee is so change-up happy) in a hitter’s park. Oh then there’s the Moyer issue. Just get me another Honda Accord siknkerballer that is more tested than Kendrick. I am tired of a rotation full of fly ball pitchers in a park not desikgned to keep fly balls in.
Richie Allen Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Very good article….
I wonder if Brett myers is still on the radar at a bargain price?It seems he might fit our needs this year if Lidge doesnt pan out.Not at $12 million ,but he might want to stay with the team for less.
I wonder if its a possibility or are they done with him?
Havoc Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I think the Phillies will make one big move this offseason followed by some tweaking here or there. The two big possible moves are: Halladay or Figgins.

As crazy as it sounded to me at first I could see the Phillies making a play for Halladay here. At this point you could trade Happ who’s value is really high, thrown in one of Taylor/Brown, and a Savery/Carpenter/Bastardo. Halladay won’t command the king’s ransom they thought they’d get so the rookie of the year, plus a highly respected outfield prospect should be enough. The only issue I can see is payroll restrictions, but with how the Phils are selling out CBP, it might not be as much of an issue.

This would give us an insane rotation especially if Hamels bounces back, and I truly believe he will.

Initially I only wanted Figgins or Feliz at 3B. I still think Figgins at third and batting leadoff, moving Rollins to the #2 spot would be a vast improvement on our offense. Figgins high OBP would help J-Roll the most of all. With a runner on the pitcher will have to throw more strikes to Jimmy since they won’t want to risk putting two on in front of Utley, Howard, or Werth. If Jimmy is getting fastballs and strikes to hit he’ll be able to put his power to good use. The negative here is payroll again. Figgins is the best 3B on the market, and will probably have a few teams bidding for him.

Having a traditional leadoff hitter in the lineup, might be what pushes an already great offense to legendary status. I’m salivating thinking of my 1-8 being: Figgins, Rollins, Utley, Howard, Werth, Ibanez, Victorino, Ruiz.

Either of the big moves would mean going cheap somewhere else, or getting into creative trades. I’m not too keen on making any trades right now since I think the team is positioned well for next season, and we can try to get some prospects back next offseason, so looking at some cheap options for the rotation and 3B.

The Phils could take a shot at Sheets or Harden neither one of them stand to make much in the FA market given their injury histories and they could be great if things go well, these would be incentive laden contracts though.

Beltre at third is in a similar spot given his injuries the last season and his power drop off he isn’t looking at a huge payday. The Phils could sign him to a cheap one year contract, with incentives which would let him hit in CBP to build up his power numbers and give him the hope of going back to FA with respectable numbers. I’d prefer Figgins at the position, but there’s something to be said of having players who have a motivation $$ to do their best.

The bullpen is probably going to take the Phillies the longest to sort out. Whether or not Scott Eyre is able/willing to return will be key to their plans. If he can’t they’ll be in the market for a new Loogy, otherwise they should only be looking for one reliever to fill in on the 25 man. Whoever, they get will need to be a guy who’s comfortable in the late innings with setup/closer experience. Lidge will be the team’s closer next year, but 2009 proved they need to have a legitimate back up plan. The rest of the bullpen can be pulled from our current roster or “fingers crossed” Mathieson if he can keep up the good work through spring training.

The bench is where we need the most work. Bruntlett & Stairs need to be replaced. I think if we make sure that Dobbs & Francisco get enough starts this year they should be fine. If we can get Bako to come back for one more year he’s acceptable as a back up catcher. In any case it’s not an area that the Phillies need to spend money upgrading. What we’ll be looking for is a utility man (who can hit this time), and a new lefty with power. Garciaparra or Derosa would fit in great as utility players and they’re good enough to get Utley & Rollins enough days off to keep them fresh. The power lefty is really going to depend on how the DH market goes. If the Phils are patient they might find a bargain down the road.
The Original Chuck P Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
There are a lot of fairy tales being thrown around here…

Thinking about the team, I’m not sure we need more bullpen arms as much as we need our guys to get healthy… Romero and Condrey being healthy will certainly help Madson and Lidge.

Another SP would be nice; Lee, Hamels, Happ, Blanton, Kendrick/Moyer/Drabek… if he’s ready, you’re building a bridge for Drabek.
Drew Beej Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Agreed 100% with getting Beltre. He’s simply a better version of Feliz who won’t be asked to be the clean up hitter Seattle wanted him to be. I think he needs to be the priority this off season.

Love the idea of Giambi who is no-doubt hungry for a title as well as the addition of a steadier back up for Ruiz.

I like putting pressure on Lidge, but at what cost? I truly expect him to be closer to his ‘08 form than his ‘09 next season and I don’t know if Putz really thrives unless he’s the man. I don’t know how willing to pitch the 7th he’d be.

Halladay is perfect. He’s quiet, confident, and an innings-eater. What I don’t like, is losing Happ and here’s why. Say we do trade Happ, Taylor, and a lesser-known. We’re fine in the outfield with Ibanez, Victorino, and Werth plus Brow and Francisco. But who’s our 5th starter? We’d have two studs at the front end for one year (can we afford to resign both? Unlikely.) Hamels and Blanton who have potential but none that showed too much in 2009, and Kyle Kendrick? You can never have enough pitching. I’d like to see this deal get done – but at the right price.

One last nugget – and I realize I’m getting long. Jimmy Rollins is not on a decline – what he is is miscast. Uncle Charlie sees an aggressive, fast player and puts him at the top of the order – which would be fine if we didn’t have the similarly gifted Shane Victorino. I think a move involving Victorino getting moved up to leadoff, moving Werth back up to the 2 hole, and dropping Rollins to 5th should be considered and here’s why. 1. OPB wise, Victorino is simply a better option to lead off games. 2. While Werth doesn’t hit for a high average, he does get on base often, is a great baserunner, and is familiar with the 2 hole from 2008. 3. Dropping him to 5th doesn’t insult Rollins – it lets him be himself. He’ll be put in a position where he can drive runners in while also serving as a jump start for the bottom of the order.
Don M Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Another thing to consider though is that with our Major League payroll already so high … maybe the Phillies don’t mind not having a 1st rd pick -And the contract and bonus that go along with it.. especially considering most 1st round picks are often the High-Risk, High-Reward type players..

more likely to BUST than to be All-Stars..

I know that sounds a little crazy, but if your scouting is deep (which ours is).. maybe you don’t mind grabbing guys in the 2nd-5th rounds where there is still loads of talent in the baseball draft
Dan S Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
a cheaper option than beltre would be mark derosa
Drew Beej Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
DeRosa is good and no doubt cheaper, but he’s not as good a fielder, coming off a very rare year power wise, and is 4 years older. I think getting Beltre for 4 years at 30-35 million is very possible, and he still has some ability to enter a prime after leaving Safeco for Citizen’s Bank.
psujoe Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Torreabla looks like a great option. Any guess on how much he’d cost? Bated .322 in the second half of the season.

What do you guys think of Troy Glaus?
Jason Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
I’d prefer Polanco, Zaun, and Valverde to some of your suggestions.

All three may be more affordable.

Also, remember Romero is coming back.
Geoff Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
true Don..theyre fully in win now mode, so they may sign one type a
Bebin Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
valverde is going to get paid good money why would we waste that money when you can get a rafael soriano…..j.j. putz will come at a lower price than either of them as teams will not bite on him….take that extra money and spend it on beltre who I like better than polanco (who does get contact but is a better second baseman than he ever will be a 3rd)…I would go zaun over torrealba though
Drew Beej Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
I like the idea of Sheets. Sign him to an incentive laden 1 year deal. Could be a good option if Halladay winds up in Boston and Lackey’s price is too steep.
Dave Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Excellent post. My math puts the Phils somewhere north of 145 next year if they are able to get Halladay and Figgy/Beltre. There’s a bigger risk with Beltre than with Figgins but he is a better fit. Definitely not crazy about Lackey, don’t like his demeanor on the field, brutal on his teammates. Phils need to get Halladay even if it means giving up Happ and Taylor. I don’t believe Happ will be a dominant pitcher so giving him up is easy. Love the Putz as Lidge backup – greeeeat idea!
Corey Seidman Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Torrealba’s a much better hitter than Zaun. The only thing Zaun has on Yorvit is the fact that he’s a switch hitter.

Soriano and Valverde will get big contracts, north of what J.C. Romero and Madson make, and it would be pointless to sign either when you could get essentially the same pitcher in Putz, for far less money.

If you want to talk about injuries/ineffectiveness, remember that Soriano is as injury-prone as it gets, and 2009 was his best season.

I’d actually love having Polanco back, having him hit seventh would be awesome. But his defense at third would be inferior to that of Beltre or Feliz, and it’s hard to imagine the Phils going after him.
DY Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 12:02 am
Really awesome read! The early offseason can be a real bore (just like the very late offseason right before spring training when things are pretty much all set), but it’s great stuff like this that can spice up the day.

I truly feel that making your best shot to land Halladay is the best way to go. His price is reduced, you’ll have him for at least one year (hopefully another championship year), and he’s reportedly a great high character guy and one who might be amicable to an extension that’s based on the prospect of winning with the team just as much as it is on the pure dollars and cents aspect. Now a lot of people are expressing apprehension when considering the price, but this team really is in a win now mode. I still remember when we were close but not good enough, and we were watching the young years of Rollins, Utley, Howard, and to some extent even Burrell go by, all the while wondering if this seemingly special group would ever be given a better opportunity to actually achieve something.

Well, they certainly have achieved, and are primed to continue to achieve…NOW. A price of Happ, hopefully Taylor (since he’s a little older as well as lesser in stature as a pure thoroughbred prospect), and another mid-level prospect (maybe Savery?) would be incredible for Halladay. Happ was good this season, for sure, but there is no guarantee that he’s going to continue having better, or even the SAME, success next year and onward. Just as Howard was a ROY and tore up the league when he came up, and then came back to earth in terms of batting average and increasing strikeouts, MLB players are paid the big ones to figure each other out. Pitchers started figuring Howard out, coming up with better game plans on how to approach him (go for the SO or pitch around). It’s a testament to him that he’s still able to put up such huge offensive production numbers given that. The same goes for pitchers. It takes a very special breed to start out good and then remain as good and get even better seamlessly. Just ask Cole Hamels. And guess what, no one ever spoke about Happ in the same parameters as they’ve spoken about Hamels regarding stuff. Happ is also basically a two-pitch pitcher, fastball and slider. He has a serviceable change-up, but this year, he really did it with his deceptive fastball. How long is that going to remain so deceptive? And is Happ going to be good enough to develop that third reliable pitch? I mean, that’s a job that is even facing Hamels now.

Anyway, my point is, I would go with the proven guy with numerous great pitches, rather than a rookie sensation that has just as much chance to become a flash in the pan rather than a continued good pitcher, ESPECIALLY considering the current makeup and objectives of our team. It’s not like during the time that Halladay and/or Lee are hopefully here in a Phillies uniform that the Phillies aren’t going to be developing any more pitchers who could make up for their eventual departure as well as the absence of Happ. You’ve got Drabek, Stutes, etc. as well as drafts over the next couple of years.

So, Ruben, if you can, pull that trigger! Lee, Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer or whoever as the 5th starter. Make that dream a reality!

As for the other moves I’d really like, totally with the Beltre move. Younger, slightly better at the plate, great defense, AND won’t take compensation to sign, meaning he’s not a Type A free agent (which Chone Figgins is). For the bullpen, I think Putz is definitely worth a flyer, and perhaps even Soriano (but he might be too expensive). Let Durbin walk, get Eyre back in the fold, and make sure to re-sign Chan-Ho! Finally, getting a guy like Garciaparra or Hairston to give Rollins and Utley a break every now and then would be stellar. As for backup catcher, I’m not sure I’m totally with you on Torrealba, but it might not be that bad of an idea considering that he always seems to rake at CBP.

Whatever the case, if the Phillies offseasons moves are headlined by, and even limited to, the additions of Halladay, Beltre, Putz, and a Garciaparra type, I would be ecstatic! Can’t wait for the 2010 to start!
Mike Schmidt Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 2:27 am
@David: Totally agree the AL is better than the NL. It is obvious in the All-Star Game and with some of the players. Maybe the DH has something to do with it, but there should be some effort made to make the leagues a little more even.

That doesn’t mean the Yankees were better than the Phillies this year.
If Tex is called out on strikes which he should have been, A-Rod gets a double, and Hamels gets Posada out, it is a 3-0 game going into the bottom of the 4th. Now, in the top of the 5th Hamels doesn’t face Pettite in a meaningful at bat.

That is only a small change, not too far fetched that gives the Phillies a chance to win Game 3. Also, there was something about Game 4 I didn’t like either, the Phillies playing from behind when they should of been ahead. Something about Game 3 & 4 because of the call I don’t go for. I’ll give the Yankees Game 2 & Game 6, the Phillies Game 1 & Game 5, but Games 3 & 4 were too weird for me and I do not count them as an even competition of what both teams were capable of. That is just me, you can say the Yankees are champs, but to me I don’t say that. I am a fan, not a player so I have that right.

Now you can look at it as being a sore loser, but if fans don’t make a point to get the calls correct, it will keep happening. I am not being a sore loser, I do not want this to happen again, and if you write stories and make comments and act like the A-Rod camera call wasn’t a big deal. Guess what. It will happen again, and the Phillies will be on the wrong side of it again.

You look at the call like this:The Yankees got the call and won the World Series. They didn’t not get the call and win the World Series. To me that would be proof of a real champion. It is the same thing in the Super Bowl with the Steelers vs. Cardinals. The Steelers got the late call with Santonio Holmes and they got the last call with Kurt Warner supposedly fumbling the ball. They didn’t not get the Holmes call and not get the Warner call and win the game. But when the fans talk about the games all they say is stop complaining and being a baby, but the fact is the team that lost didn’t get the call.

Now let me ask you this. When in the last few years has a team NOT gotten the controversal call and WON the game or series? How about never. So even if I was a Yankees fan I would want the call to be a double because I would want to win without controversy.

Then you go back and you say “Well they got the call correct”. But they didn’t get the Tex call right in the at bat before A-Rod. They clearly got that call wrong, it was a strike, Tex should have been punched out on a 3-2 pitch. So saying they got the call right doesn’t mean anything because NOT EVERY CALL IN A SPORTS GAME IS CORRECT.

So all the play means is that AGAIN the team that GETS the controversal call WINS the game or series. Check out the last few years in sports. This is what is happening. Teams aren’t losing the call and winning the game. Nobody is doing that. Had the Phillies won the series it would have proved to me they are the best. However with the Yankees winning the series, it doesn’t prove to me they are the best. It proves they got the big call that gave them a better chance to win.

And the last thing about the play is that it made me sick for 18 consecutive hours I was up 18 consecutive hours after the play. The ball DOES NOT look like it is leaving the park. It drops significantly and is so close to the fence that the call disgusts me. Remember Ryan Howard’s home run in Game 6? That barely made it out, but it was a good 5 feet over the fence. This ball would not have cleared by more than 1 foot, if at all, and because of that it should not have been ruled a home run.

Cole had retired 10 of 11 batters and was pitching a no-hitter. He is the World Series MVP of 2008 and the Phillies were defending world champions. The pitch he made to Tex was a punch out, no doubt. When a pitcher is piching like that, and has not given up a hit up until the 4th, if the ball is borderline it should be called a strike, no doubt. But it wasn’t and then the Phillies got screwed in their own World Championship ballpark.

You can call me a baby, and a sore loser but the bottom line is this. If you forget about the play, it will happen again. Wouldn’t be suprised if I saw something like this again in the 2010 World Series.

You want to give the Yankees a championship that is fine, everybody is doing it. But to me it is half a championship. Let the call be ruled a double and lets see how the Phillies do. If the call is ruled a double and the Phillies win Game 3, or have enough in them to forget about it and not play from behind in Game 4, and end up winning the series, you wouldn’t be saying the Yankees are just the best and are better than the Phillies, you would be saying the Phillies are better than the Yankees because they won the series.

In the end, you are saying the Yankees are better than the Phillies because they GOT the call AND won the series. However, if the Yankees didn’t get the call, you wouldn’t have enough information to say the Yankees are better than the Phillies because you don’t know what would have happened had the score been kept at 3-0.
Mike Schmidt Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 2:36 am
Again, all anybody saw in the World Series was the A-Rod play being called a home run and the Yankees winning. You didn’t see the play being called a double. You only saw one scenario. You only watched the scenario where the Yankees got the big call. You didn’t watch the scenario where the Phillies got the big call. And that is why I do not say the Yankees are better than the Phillies. Nothing was proved by the series, because you only saw one side of the story. Yes the Yankees won 103 games, but that doesn’t make a World Champion, that was the regular season.

Nobody watched the ball being ruled a double and the Yankees winning the World Series. Nobody. And because that didn’t happen, there isn’t enough for me to say the Yankees are better than the Phillies. It isn’t enough for me to say the Phillies are better than the Yankees either.

For me personally, because of the way the call went down, the 2009 World Series meant nothing and it showed me nothing about who was a better team. Everybody in the world can disagree with me, it doesn’t matter, because as a fan I have a right to feel this way.
Mike Schmidt Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 2:47 am
Jason Werth cannot go run up to the ump and get in the umps face. Rollins can’t run in all the way from short to argue the call. Charlie can’t blast the media after the game. The Phillies players can’t complain and say this and that and criticize rules and officials. Because then there will be consequences to the team. The players have to act fairly and maturely because they have signed contracts and it is there jobs.

The fans can act differently. And that is one reason why I am a little bit dissapointed in Phillies fans when anylyzing this play. I still haven’t seen proof of the ball going over the fence and that disgusts me. Yet everybody wants to “move on” and “get over it”. To me that is what the players should be doing. The fans should be saying something differently not because what happened in the past, so something like this doesn’t happen again.

I’m from NY and kind of wanted to go to Philly for the game, but I don’t want to drive so I stay home.
Had I been in the ballpark when the A-Rod play went down, I would have ran onto the field no matter where I was sitting and gotten in Gerry Davis’s face, because I do not like calls like that. I do not like when they do that in pro sports, and over the past few years it has been happening alot.
Brooks Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 6:55 am
I couldn’t agree more with Keith E. This team just stopped in the WS –
Why? Who knows – but remember the terrible first month of the season where every single starter was on pace to break records in most HRs allowed? It was atrocious! Never saw anything like it and it was amazing that they straightened most of the pitching out after that.

Joedad – your point about Beltre is noted – the guy signed a 5 year $64 million contract after that monster season he had in LA – and never, ever came close to reproducing those stats again but he certainly has demanded the money and who would think he might sign for a significant amount less? Not me..

Then Joedad, your credibility was lost when you started talking about trading Vic, the player who has improved in nearly every stat, year after year. I think his best is yet to come and he is in the right spot to shine. Keep Vic – forget Beltre.
joedad Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Brooks, I did not suggest trading Victorino. One of my posts above was summarizing some of the more insane comments on this blog, such as trading Victorino and replacing him with Taylor. That would be asinine.

Another thing against Beltre is that he will need to play next season for about 1/3 to 1/2 his current salary. Again, i can’t trust someone like that.
karen Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
I am sorry, but how can Hamels even be considered a top of the rotation starter? Yes, he was great in 2008 but that is no guarantee that he can ever be that guy again. On top of that, his attitude is sickening. The fact that Hamels was even being considered for a game 7 start is ridiculous but I understand loyalty to a guy who did it last year regardless of current performance. Additionally, Happ will never be good enough to satisfy philly which is irritating but I will stick up for him as he has great potential and will be around more than a year, which Halliday may not. I will be a fan of whatever team Happ is on so I am fine either way
lol @ Mike S Says:
November 12th, 2009 at 6:48 am
How was the A-Rod homerun controversial? It hit the camera at the top of the lense and would have gone out PLUS the umps decided before the game that it would be a homerun if the ball hit it. That’s why it didn’t take long for them to review. Do you really think the Yankees won because of balls and strikes calls?

I feel bad that you watch baseball.
lol @ Mike S Says:
November 12th, 2009 at 6:51 am
Also, the Yankee payroll is going down while the Phillie payroll is going up and will be top 5 in the league next year. If they get a big name it will easily be in the $140 million range while the Yankees will be back under $200 milllion.

One poster wrote that he would like to see the Yankees payroll after “luxury payoffs”…ummmm how does that make the payroll go up? Are you talking about luxury tax or bonuses?

Any Phillies fans here complain about payroll when theirs was $70 or $80 million more than the Rays in 2008?
Mike Schmidt Says:
November 17th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
It didn’t hit the top of the camera lens, it hit the middle. Haven’t seen one video anywhere of proof that the ball was 100% going out of the ballpark. Even where it hit on the camera that was barely 1 foot higher than the fence, so if the camera was onto the field of play anywhere from 8-12 inches, obviously noone knows for sure if the ball was going out.

Don’t just sit there and say the ball was going out of the park. Show me the video and show me the proof, because the videos from MLB that day show nothing conclusives. Show me proof that the ball was going over the fence, not what the media says.
Mike Schmidt Says:
November 17th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
A-Rod did NOT hit a Home Run in the 2009 World Series. This is the information I found: “The camera (seen in the picture below) is less than a foot off from the top of the wall, so the umps didn’t notice that it hit the camera”

If the camera is less than a foot off the top of the wall, how does the ball clear than more than 1 foot? If it clears less than 1 foot, how is that clearly a home run. This call was 100% bogus.

You can see in the picture itself, when it hits the camera it appears to be at most 10-12 inches higher than the wall. The camera extended onto the field and the ball stopped at the 329 mark, it never went 330 feet. It wasn’t a home run, plain and simple, its just that nobody wants to admit it.
Don M Says:
November 18th, 2009 at 9:23 am
let it go …
Haha Says:
November 18th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Mike Schmidt, what a crybaby sore loser you are. A-Rod didnt hit a home run, booo hoo … the yankees spend so much money … boo hoo!
You lost, get over it!
Mike Schmidt Says:
November 20th, 2009 at 12:53 am
Let what go? First of all I’m not interested in how much money the Yankees spent. Could care less if they spent 100 billion dollars I never made any statement about that.

The ball isn’t going over the fence plain and simple. First of all, watch the original replay as it happens in real time. Before the umps go into the dugout they show a pic of A-Rod over at 2nd base, then they switch quickly to show you a picture what leads you to believe that is the exact same right field camera as it was before the ball was hit. Watch it on mlb.com. At 1:46 to 1:47 they show you that pic for just 1 or 2 seconds then immediately change to show you the ump twirling his finger like its a home run. In that pic at 1:46 to 1:47 the camera is higher above the fence then it was when the ball hit the camera.

Every other real time video shows that the bottom of the camera is extremely close to the top of the fence. In fact, the small space between the 1st and 2nd bar at the top of the screen fence is the same space between the bottom of the camera and the top of the fence. When they switch at 1:46 to 1:47 to show you that pic, before the umps have made their decision, the space between the bottom of the camera and the top of the fence is TWICE what it was when the ball hit the camera, and TWICE what it was in every other real game time video when the ball hit the camera.

Just look at the pic from 1:46 to 1:47 that is NOT how high the camera was over the fence. It was much closer than that.

Now take the infamous side angle when Werth retrives the ball. First of all, it is not an EXACT side angle. There is NO exact side angle, no picture or video anywhere whatsoever that shows exactly how far out in front of the fence the camera is. They give you that side angle on the original replay but it is NOT and exact side angle.

Now on that infamous side angle notice how there is no space between the bottom of the camera and the top of the fence. Also notice at the 325 mark, how high the ball is over the fence. Before it hits the camera at the 329 mark, the ball DROPS 8 feet. The baseball DROPS 8 feet top to bottom with only 4 feet left before it hits the fence, so OBVIOUSLY the ball was dropping and it was much closer to going straight downward than horizontilly. Also on that side angle, the camera blocks a large portion of the yellow right field foul pole. If the camera was in foul territory, from NO angle from the left of Werth, would it show the camera blocking any portion of the right field foul pole. From that angle the camera ALSO blocks the bottom yellow bar of the right field foul pole. That not only means the camera is in fair territory, it also means that the bottom of the camera is even with the bottom horizontal bar of the yellow right field foul pole.

When they show you a pic of the camera with nobody in the stands, the bottom of the camera is higher than the bottom bar of the yellow foul pole. When they show you that pic at 1:46 & 1:47 the camera is higher than the bottom bar of the yellow foul pole. HOWEVER, when the ball actually HIT the camera, the camera is EVEN with the bottom of the foul pole.

In conlusion, there is NO conclusive picture, or video ANYWHERE on the internet which shows that this is 100% a home run. There is nothing ANYWHERE which proves through video, pictures or trajectory projections that this is a home run. ABSOLUETELY NO WHERE. I have found several pictures that supposedly show the right field camera and have seen it in 3 DIFFERENT POSITIONS than where it actually was WHEN THE BALL HIT THE CAMERA.

Therefore not only is it NOT a home run, there is no proof ANYWHERE which shows why this ball was going over the fence, because it was not.

I’m not interested in salaries, not interested in anything that happened later in the series either. All I am interested in is the fact that the ball is NOT going over the fence. That’s all.

And I’ve read many comments about what people think about the play, and there were a few by Phillies fans who were in right field that night, and they said there was no way for sure of telling where the ball was going to land. So until there is a picture, video, or something which proves the ball is going over the fence, it isn’t. Even over 2 weeks after the incident WHERE IS THE PROOF???

Because there isn’t any proof. Because the ball didn’t go over the fence. It still hasn’t gone over the fence, it only traveled 329 feet, not enough for a home run, the sign on the wall says 330, not 329 + a camera. Sorry NO home run.
Mike Schmidt Says:
November 20th, 2009 at 1:04 am
1.Why did Texeira stop at 3rd base?
2.Why did A-Rod stop at 2nd base?
3.Why was it originally ruled a double?
4.Why in MLB official rules does it state that a ball hitting a camera overhanging from the fence shall be considered part of the fence and in play?
5.Why does it say that exact same thing in the rules for Citizens Bank Park?
6.Why was Charlie Manuel unaware of the supposed “ground rule”
7. Why did they use replay to check on a “ground rule” they made up because they supposedly didn’t have replay to check where the camera was?
8.Why were the umps in and out in 15 seconds?
9.Where is the video or picture PROOF that this was a home run? Not a guess, the PROOF anywhere on the internet?
10.Why did Gerry Davis say he doesn’t control what the camerman does with the camera, then proceeds to control the cameraman for Game 4?
11.Why did Gerry Davis say he doesn’t control what the camerman does with the camera, when he has instant replay to PROVE exactly what the camerman does with the camera?
12.Why was the cameraman in fair territory?
13.Where is the EXACT side angle?
14.Why does the ball drop 8 feet with only 4 feet to go?
15.Why didn’t the umps move the camera back instead of making up a ground rule?
16.Why are there pictures that show the camera at 3 different lenghts from the top of the fence?

Are you going to answer ALL 15 questions correctly? I don’t think so. Because its not a home run. The ball never went over the fence. There is no PROOF, even to this day.

For starters, try answering question 13 before you think you know where the ball was going.

How about NOT over the fence, how does that sound.
Mike Schmidt Says:
November 20th, 2009 at 3:31 am
Now check this out.

Go to baseball-reference and look at the play by play for Game 3 Here it is:NYY A. Rodriguez C. Hamels Home Run (Fly Ball to Deep LF); Teixeira Scores.

Really? Fly Ball to Deep LF. So Jayson Werth plays LF, no he doesn’t. Why isn’t the play listed as RF in the box score? Does baseball-reference get box scores wrong? No.

Go to yahoo and look at the play by play for Game 3 Here it is:Top 4th: NY Yankees
- J. Damon flied out to right center
- M. Teixeira walked
- A. Rodriguez doubled to right, M. Teixeira to third
- J. Posada grounded out to shortstop
- R. Cano fouled out to catcher

2 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors

2 runs? Really? Then who scored? Looks like Yahoo got it right, do you see how it says “doubled” and not “HR”, because A-Rod didn’t hit a home run.

People are starting to realize now that the ball was NOT a home run. And in time the truth will come out. It WASN”T a home run and the umps got the call WRONG.

Next I’m going to post the thousands of comments made by readers saying why it was NOT a home run. Also, notice how all the people who say it wasn’t a home run go into detail and describe the play. And notice how the people who say it was a home run, don’t go into any detail about the play and try to bring up comparisons between the Phillies and Yankees, like it has something to do with the play. It doesn’t. The play has nothing to do with anything else in the world, excpet for the simple fact that the ball WASN”T going over the fence, and NEVER did.

Ashburn Award

2009 Philadelphia Phillies

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