Phillies Nation

74 Responses to “Feliz Option Declined”

1. Tom B. Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

   Can we trade for Uggla? He would fit perfectly here! I know he isn’t that great defensively (at second currently…but has played third), but he sure can hit!

2. joedad Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

   “This doesn’t preclude us from bringing Pedro back next season,” Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said in a statement. “While this allows us to explore other opportunities, we will continue to keep the lines of communication open with Pedro and his representative.”

   I would like to see Figgins here since the Phils haven’t had a legitimate leadoff hitter since Dykstra. He would score 140+ runs at the leadoff spot and Jimmy might have 100 RBI from the 7 hole. We can dream.

3. Manny Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

   WHAT!!!!!!!????????

   No Feliz???

4. joedad Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

   Uggla has never played 3rd base and strikes out too much

5. NJ Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

   Wow the Phils are being aggressive… If he’s healthy Beltre is being talked of as a perfect fit.

6. joedad Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

   Check out Uggla’s defensive 3B stats in the monors, horrible:

   http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=uggla-001dan

   To me, Figgins>DeRosa>Feliz>Beltre>Atkins>Uggla

7. pb Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

   If I’m the GM I go get Roy Halladay. If I have to trim salary to do it I trade Raul, I think you can trade him with out eating any of his salary but I may not receive much in return player wise. Thats 11 million off the books. I platoon Francisco w/ Dobbs or a cheap FA LH OF if they don’t perform then Taylor arrives. I trade Cole (another 7 million coming off) Brown (because he’s further away) and another prospect or 2 and I get Roy and another bullpen piece Brandon League maybe.

   I love Raul as much as anybody but when comes down to a 7 game series do I want Raul in LF with guy like Pedro or Blanton starting or Ben/Dobbs/Taylor in LF with Roy on the mound.

   I think having Roy and Lee with 4 starts between them is as close to a guaranteed 3 wins as you can get. That means you just have to win 1 out of the other 3 games they don’t start.

   If we don’t get Halladay I’ll be disappointed, I don’t really care whose manning 3rd or LF. I care about who’s on the mound.

8. psujoe Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

   I think Uggla strikes out too much also. While I like Chone, Charlie doesn’t erally play small ball so would he just be wasted? Any ideas on what he’d cost?

9. psujoe Says:
   November 8th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

   Believe it or not Derosa hits left handed pitching better than Figgins for average with a whole lot more power. Interesting dilemma. I think the Phils could get Derosa for a lot less $$$?

10. Pat Gallen Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    PSUJoe- I don’t think Derosa is a viable option for everyday 3B. He’d be an amazing platoon guy, someone who can play a few times a week at different positions giving Rollins, Utley, and the like a break. I hope that they do sign Derosa, but not as a starter.

11. joedad Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    After seeing all the free agent 3rd basemen, it makes more sense to decline Feliz’ option and take a chance. Feliz at $5 million would be overpriced in this market.

    3rd base free agents:

    Figgins, Glaus, Derosa, Mora, Beltre, Crede, Tejada.

    Figgins might be expensive because I think the Angels want him back.

12. NJ Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Uggla… Really? Sure he can hit some homers but he doesn’t hit with consistency and if he has terrible feet at third without a corner infielders arm how on earth will he be an upgrade? The offense needs to be a balance.

13. dudley monk Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    Figgins or Beltre make sense at Third, if they can land either. Uggla is a serious defensive liability who strikes out and is a 250 hitter. Lots of power but not much else. No speed. Melvin Mora is too old. Troy Glaus is really injury-prone. Jode Crede has never recovered from injuries. Perhaps the Phils are thinking of Juan Uribe for about $2 million and then bringing in Roy Halladay in a trade for J A Happ and a couple of minor leaguers. They’s save some money, as well.

14. dudley monk Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    we might be able to sign both Urive and Placido Polanco — a third baseman and potent utility man along the lines of Mariano Duncan.

15. joedad Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    I’d love to have DeRosa as an uber-utility man. He could start 100+ games around the field and rest the regulars.

    He started 100 games at 3B last year so he would fit in a platoon role at 3B and still fill in for Rollins and Utley. Is Dobbs good enough to start 70 to 80 games and allow DeRosa to play other positions?

16. Al in Seattle Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    I’ve got a feeling Figgins will cost too much… Beltre would be a good shot in Philly. As a guy who’s been watching him here in Seattle, he still has an outstanding glove when he’s healthy. His numbers were down this year, but that can be blamed on the lousy lineup the Mariners had, his health issues, and the fact that Safeco Field is a dead zone for right handed hitters. I think Amaro should sign Beltre and look for a good number two starting pitcher (along with some bullpen help… you can never have too much of that). We’ll see what Amaro has up his sleeve for the offseason. He’s proven to be very competent as we have seen swinging the Lee deal. Gosh, I miss baseball already…

17. Greg V. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Beltre’s numbers are almost identical if not slightly worse than Feliz. No way! Figgins, Derosa, or bust! Or maybe the return of Placido Polanco!

18. joedad Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    Al, one of my concerns about Beltre was that he had one outstanding offensive season in his free agent year, got a huge contract, and then way underperformed. I can’t trust someone like. On the bright side, it looks like he improved defensively.

    I also miss baseball already…

19. Keith E Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Good bye and good luck, Happy. You will always be a part of the Phils family. Thank you for all of your contributions. Hard to imagine a better defensive 3rd baseman coming in.
    GO PHILS!!!

20. Ed R. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Beltre has two gold gloves, Feliz…none.

    Beltre is 4 years younger than Feliz.

    Beltre played about 40 less games than Feliz did last year.

    Prior to this year where he was injured pretty much the entire season he hit 25,26, and 25 homers in Seattle. Not exactly a good hitters park.

    Feliz hit 26 total home runs the last two years in CBP.

    Feliz is a lifetime 254 hitter, Beltre, 270…explain to me why again you wouldn’t want Beltre?

21. Lou Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Why not Kouzmanhoff from SD. He is younger at 29 slick fielder and less cash than Beltre or Chone. 18/88/260 Not bad.

22. joedad Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Ed, Beltre had a career year with a 1.000 OPS with the Dodgers in 2004, got a HUGE contract and hasn’t done much since then (or before then). He would need to take a big pay cut to come here. How can we trust someone like him?

23. joedad Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    Lou, Kouzmanhoff is in his first year of arbitration so I doubt he is available

24. Ed R. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    And? Feliz hasn’t done much of anything his entire career. Feliz was great on defense but Beltre is better. You can’t argue that Beltre is not a better hitter with a bigger upside than Feliz does when it comes to hitting. Not to mention he is 4 years younger. Again, his career numbers are all better than Feliz, and he has done it in less seasons.

    Beltre is going to take a pay cut no matter where he goes. You can get Beltre for a little more than what you would pay for Feliz. If Feliz comes back it will be for less money because 5.5 mil although cheap is more than he is worth.

25. Groty Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    Feliz’s value was not in the $5.5 Mil range.

    Realistically, this team can bring him back, after dropping that option.

    And taking it a step further, any trade that occurs in the next 8 months must involve a 3rd base prospect. Bottom line. No Phuture Phillies can fill that roll as it i today

26. joedad Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    Ed, Feliz’ OPS was higher last season. Feliz played in 158 games. Beltre played in 114 and is coming off an injury. Feliz had 12 home runs. Beltre had 8 home runs. Feliz was also a much better hitter with RISP.

    I would take Feliz over Beltre.

27. chuckS Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    the phils don’t need to spend top dollar on third base, they need a solid defender and a decent bat. The phils offense doesn’t need a big boost. Lets get some pitching. You can dream about figgins if you want, I’ll be dreaming about Roy Halladay!!!!!

28. dudley monk Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Hey, let’s bring back David Bell?

29. Ed R. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Yes I know Feliz has more homers, by 4 in 40 more games though, as a right hander in a ball park that favors right handed hitters. Don’t forget that Safeco is not a good hitting park, for anyone, especially right handers. No to mention, when Beltre did play, he never saw any pitches because he had no one else in the line up. Feliz was better with RISP but much of that was due to how hot he was at the beginning of the year. Eventually he came back down to earth.

    I have nothing against Feliz but given the option, and how badly the Eagles need a second right handed bat that can hit for power, I’d prefer Beltre over Feliz given that Feliz did not hit for power in CBP. That’s all I am saying. Plus, you can get 3-4 years with Beltre to try and hopefully develop a decent 3B prospect. In 3-4 years Feliz will be 37-38.

30. Ed R. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    WOW talk about a slip…clearly I mean how badly the Phillies need a second right handed bat…as for the Eagles, they need to air it out a bit more. McNabb had a touchdown to Maclin in the end zone but Ware hit McNabb just as he threw it. Son of a B.

31. Ed R. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    I would love Figgins but it will never happen. What is more likely is Beltre with DeRosa brought in for the bench, or even more likely is Feliz with DeRosa brought in for the bench.

    If the Phillies said they were going to bring back Feliz on the cheap and use that extra money to solidify the pen then I would be cool with that. Nothing I have read or heard indicates that they consider starting pitching to be an issue. Now that doesn’t mean much as they may just not want to put it out there that they really are concerned with pitching.

32. shag beta sigma delta Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    I have to respectfully disagree, but first I would not be surprised if Pedro came back.
    I want him back, you do not need more offense on this team, this team has won back to back NL titles, and 3 NL east crowns, why screw with it. He had some big hits in 08, and struggled a little this post season, but he was a strike out of Johnny Damon, from being a game 4 hero. Beltre is very injury prone, how many games as Pedro Missed in his four years due to injury. You can not sacrifice defense and chemistry to build a fantasy team. Derosa, would be nice bench help to replace Brutlett, but I would not trust him as everyday 3rd baseman.
    But like I led off with, my money is they sign him to a 1 year deal for less with an option for 2011.
    Add some pitching and bench and pen depth. I do not think you mess with this team. Personally I think it is crazy

33. Ed R. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    I agree with you SBSD in that Feliz is not the injury risk that Beltre is. Absolutely true. But I disagree that the Eagles don’t need more offense. They do. Maybe not to compete in the NL but to compete vs the AL, whether its in the Series or in Interleague play which they stink at, they need more offense because they don’t have someone they can throw in there to DH. Regardless of that though, as an NL team the only way to really get someone who is going to be a good PH or DH is for the guy to get enough at bats during the course of the year. I’d try and get DeRosa and let him spell whoever the 3B is, spell J-Roll, Utley, Werth or Ibanez. He can do it all.

34. shag beta sigma delta Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    I agree that they need to develop a third basemen, But I do not see them trading anyone of there 8 no seven starters. I see minor league players being traded, like when Bourne got traded, I believe for Marberry Jr. One of our outfield prospects for a thirdbase prospect. I really think Feliz is a great fit for this team for this year and next.

35. Ed R. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Well clearly I would prefer Beltre but if they bring back Feliz it is not the worst thing ever that’s for sure. There are other things that are a little more important than 3B.

36. Jeff Dowder Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    Michael Bourn (with no “e”) was traded for Brad Lidge, not Mayberry Jr.

37. George Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    Strange. Everyone complains of the Phils terrible RISP numbers, yet so many seem to be glad the team leader in RISP, Feliz, has not had his option picked up.

    Beltre’s numbers have been declining of late, and he’s an injury risk. Glaus is an injury risk. Mora is not just old, he’s an antique. Crede’s a wreck, DeRosa is more of a utility type, Polanco hasn’t played third in years. Maybe they can afford Figgins, but the competition for him will be such that he’ll probably end up overpaid.

    I’m not sure what’s in Amaro’s mind, and I hope he’s not making an expensive mistake that will cost the Phils a bullpen or bench upgrade.

38. j reed Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    Ed R. – I agree. Also keep in mind the Beltre has spent years facing Angels pitching which has probably been the best in the league. He’d rake here and can flash the leather as well as Feliz whose defense has declined since his back surgery. Do you think we’ll have to suffer thru Moyer in the starting rotation?

39. Havoc Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Chone Figgins is the only person I want to see playing 3B. I’d still like Mark Derosa to be on the team but I want him replacing Bruntlett and giving us the option to get more offdays to our position players. I don’t think we can trust Beltre and we wouldn’t have any good options to step in behind him. If the team since Figgins this is a great move if not i’m worried.

40. Manny Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    I WANT FELIZ BACK dammit!!!!!

41. Ed R. Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    I really hope Moyer just retires and enjoys the rest of his life. But somehow I don’t think that is going to happen. So to answer your question, yes.

42. Mike in 314 Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    Signing someone like Figgins over Feliz not only improves the line-up; it gives the Phillies flexibility to move Victorino (or let Rollins walk).

    Taylor can’t stay parked in the minors until 2012 waiting for Ibanez, and the Phillies can’t afford to re-sign all of their core players.

    Add it up, and it makes sense for the Phillies to sign Figgins, trade Victorino at his peak value, and bring up Taylor to play RF.

43. j reed Says:
    November 8th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Taylor will be rehabbing from a sports hernia

44. Mike in 314 Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    Taylor’s rehab just affects when they would make outfield moves. It doesn’t change the fact that Figgins provides a lot more flexibility for the Phillies to make any of those moves in the future.

45. j reed Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 12:42 am

    Except you’d be overpaying for a guy who is in the beginning of decline from his peak. His versatility will drive his price past what he is worth esp. if that versatility isn’t used to it ’s fullest. Better to stay with Feliz or go with Beltre to have more money for pitching and bench options. Figgins would be great but not cost effective.

46. KidJenkinz Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    Yeah, Feliz had a hole in his bat, but he’s great on the field. If anything they should apply the Ibanez and Francisco situation here. Let someone with a bat hit, and put Feliz in in the 9th to field. But really though Phillies? You can’t let Feliz go!

47. Jeff Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    We need some depth on our bench. I love Stairs and the moonshot against LA last year, but really that’s been his only contribution. Pitchers know how to strike him out, and Francisco and Dobbs added very little this year as well. There is talk (for what it’s worth) that we might go after John Lackey. I highly doubt we would get Roy at this point. And yes Feliz had a helluva average with RISP during the season, but man he looks lost sometimes at the plate. His glove must be replaced though, we have just about the best infield in the NL

48. Mike in 314 Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 1:21 am

    I hear you on overpaying for Figgins’ versatility, but I disagree that he’s in decline.

    The bottom line is the Phillies are going to lose at least one of Rollins / Victorino / Werth over the next 2 years, so they need to bring in another top of the order type of hitter. I like Beltre, but he isn’t that guy (and lord knows Feliz isn’t). Figgins is a better fit for the team IMHO.

49. mikeB Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 1:52 am

    There is an upside and downside to every player move. I like the idea of bringing in Figgins or Beltre and bring back Feliz at a lower cost and use him to back up the new third baseman, late inning replacement if needed at third and for the bench as a much needed right handed pinch hitter. Don’t know if Feliz can play other infield positions or not. Figgins is probably the best move to bring in as a lead off hitter but with him probably going to be too expensive, I think the team can survive keeping Rollins at the top of the order and adding Beltre to the lower part of the batting order for more pop.

50. Mike D. Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 2:51 am

    I’m actually sad to see Feliz go. It was the Feliz signing that really got me excited for the 2008 season. I understand their thinking – aging, need a better righthanded bat to balance the lineup – and we were lucky to get as much out of him this year as we did. But…still…I feel a sense of loss. I also feel Adrian Beltre has little work ethic, as his best season was his contract year.

51. Brooks Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 7:40 am

    We have gotten quite used to probably the best gun at 3rd base we have seen in a long time.
    You will be missed Pedro! It was a pleasure watching his glove.
    Hey, I just wonder if he showed even a small bit of clutch hitting in the WS, would we be talking about this now?
    1 hit in 6 games?

52. Chase Ultley - U R the Man Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 8:22 am

    Not happy about Pedro leaving, but I understand the decision. While he is a phenomenal defensive third baseman, his offensive punch is lacking.

    My Vote: Trade Cole Hamels for Ryan Zimmerman. Phenomenal glove, phenomenal bat! I realize Zim just signed a 5 yr deal this spring without a no trade clause, but I would easily give up Hamels for him. Hamels has waaaaay to many issues and I feel it may only get worse.

53. Keith Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 9:02 am

    The whole hot stove frenzy begins in 11 days. I was originally thinking Figgins, but Beltre would be nice too.

54. Brooks Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Beltre, other than one monster year while playing with LA in which to me raises questions about a foreign substance, has been a disappointment to the fans of Seattle who were expecting more, quite a bit more.
    Beltre originally signed with Seattle for for a 5 year $64 mil contract and never came close to the 2004 monster stats. He had 200 hits, 48 hrs and 121 rbi – along with a BA of over .330 while playing in that cavern in Los Angels. Nothing even remotely close since then.

    Yes, he has won some glove awards but you can expect he is not going to waver much from his previous contract demands and, he ain’t worth it.

55. Vince Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Pedro Feliz did a solid job defensively during the series, which I think more than made up for the batting numbers (not that they were even THAT bad…).

    BRING BACK FELIZ!

56. Pete Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    ReclinerGM has a really good post up with the 3B options and their likely contract demands.

    http://www.reclinergm.com/what-are-the-phillies-3b-options/

57. Griffin Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Beltre will command about $8 million a year. Feliz will be lucky to get $3 million per year on the open market.

    Beltre is much better than Feliz offensively and is slightly better than Feliz defensively.

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