Phillies Nation

50 Responses to “Phillies Targeting Beltre?”

1. Geoff Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

   Yeah, well see about that. They dont sound too excited about the fact that Boras wants a 4 year deal. And if Boras insists on that, I completely guarantee you that the Phillies will move on to Mark DeRosa.

   Chone Figgins will command too much money to go after considering hte other needs they have he is not an option. Beltre may actually get too much money for their liking as well.

   Im ok with DeRosa or Polanco as I would rather spend more money on better pitching.

2. Manny Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

   Get him on a 3-yr deal… I really don’t see Beltre getting 4 this offseason…

3. Geoff Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

   Id go 3 for 21M. Nothing higher…because Mark DeRosa will sign for 3 for less than 21M

4. Ed R. Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

   Would love Beltre, he is the best fit for the team with regards to their needs but he is not worth the extra year or extra dough if they can get someone else without having to go above their means.

   3 years and 21 mil is my feeling of what I would end with. Because DeRosa is going to take that if offered.

5. Ed R. Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

   Great minds think a like Geoff.

6. Geoff Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

   Yes exactly….tahts the limit really. AND back load it so this year you only have to pay 4 or 5…

7. Don M Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

   Scott Boras can’t insist on Jack Sh!t, because Beltre was on roids and hasn’t had anywhere near the production that Seattle was expecting when they signed him

   I want him on the Phillies but for 2-3 years, at no more that $7-8 M per season

8. Geoff Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

   Im thinking that this revelation from Boras abotu 4 years, if he adheres to it, is going to disqualify the Phillies here. I think that they will end up with Mark DeRosa.

9. Havoc Says:
   November 25th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

   Guess we’ll have to wait and see since Boras is involved we can’t expect a quick resolution on this 3B issue. I’d love to see him on the Phils though great glove, and nothing cures a hitter’s woes like CBP.

   3 Years 20-24 mill, maybe through an option out there for a 4th year, knowing that we won’t likely exercise it. Phils will need their first round draft pick this year. We need to start drafting a for the infield of the future.

10. JeffS Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    I know how silly this is going to sound, but if Atkins gets released and goes cheap, could it be possible to afford him AND DeRosa? If Atkins falters again, DeRosa could take his place, and even if he doesn’t, DeRosa would be the best bat off our bench. Again sounding silly, do we really need a 5th OF to start the season? If there’s any sign of one OF being hurt, we could milk the minors, while still giving Taylor/Mayberry at bats every day to improve.

    Yeah, I know I’m exhausted and someone will point out that this idea is stoopid and impossible.

11. The Original Chuck P Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    If Beltre gets 3/21, that would be a victory for him coming off of a down year. This market is shaping up like last year… remember, Bobby Abreu got one year and 5 million. There weren’t many lucrative contracts doled out in 2008 –

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?season=2008

    If you go by that measuring stick, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that the Phillies can try to work that number lower or cut that down to two years. I don’t know how many teams are in the market for a 3B but there are some good ones on the market this year and next…

12. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    geoff–you cant compare derosa/beltre. beltre is an everyday player and is 4 years younger than derosa. signing derosa would mean you would HAVE to play dobbs/castro/whoever a decent amount of games. derosa will get more playing time and probably the same amount of money on a team not as good as the phils.

    havoc–i agree with you. 3 years, 4th year option, 24 mil plus incentives/performance bonuses. thats a good investment because beltre is young enough to still have great offensive numbers ahead of him. problem–beltre averaged about 12.5 mil per season over the last 5 years in seattle. dropping down to 8 mil could be tough to swallow, but if the phils committed to the 4 year deal i think beltre/boras would go for it

    get it done ruben

13. Don M Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    What did Abreu get this year… 2 years, $15 M ?

    Anyone that is a legit player in baseball gets somewhere in the $6-7 Million range.. and the outstanding players get double-digits

    Beltre won’t be cheap, but shouldn’t be too expensive either

14. shag beta sigma delta Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    I have to say maybe you give him his 4th year 25 million or so. And I think they will try harder for Beltre because, really I do not see DeRosa as everyday 3rd base guy. And to give a guy 4 years when he is 30 is not a bad idea if he pans out, if he sucks it up, 3 years is too many also. With Boras as an agent I do not see a quick deal like we had with Raul last year. Unless you over pay him. He has to know he is not getting 10-12 million on this contract with his down years in Seatle. Would it not make sense to take 2 or 3 year deal and have decent offensive numbers, and be 32 or 33 when it is time to maybe sign another 2 or 3 year deal worth more. I like the guy and think he is the best fit for this team because you do not need huge numbers from the #7 guy, .270 12-18 hr 60 rbi. Just do not K as much.
    With all that said I would still not be surprised to see Peter Happy back.

15. Lucky Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Phillies Sign DeWayne Wise & Wilson Valdez…Nuff said lol

16. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    either way you slice it, its an upgrade over feliz. even if ur a skeptic and a pessimist, you can still see that there is a significant age difference between the two guys. whether you like beltre or not, whether you think he will be a good fit or not, you can still honestly say to yourself…’ya know. he is young enough where he could potentially have 2-3 solid years of production, especially in the phils lineup.’….you cant argue me there. can you say the same thing for pedro feliz?? not really.

    even if beltre puts up the EXACT same numbers that he did in seattle, minus his injury season 09 and his fluke season 04 in LA, he would still be considered an average 3rd baseman abd be on par with feliz. in the worst case scenario he does about the same as pedro we just pay him a little more to be average. but im tellin ya, there is room for improvement for this guy and i think being on a contending team will turn his game around.

17. Ed R. Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/phillies-sign-dewayne-wise-wilson-valdez.html

    Guess they are creating competition for the bench spots? I’m cool with that.

18. shag beta sigma delta Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    Also I agree on the 5th outfielder position. Fransico in the 4th outfield spot, giving Vic, Raul, and Jayson a few days off. If some one goes down for a long period of time, he could fill in nicely. And you bring up Tyler, Brown, and even Mayberry if he works on his plate discipline this winter. If not you only going to sign a guy for a year, because you have these guys almost ready to play if not now at least in 2011.

19. psujoe Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Any Boras client will take time unless he senses the market won’t be there. Boras would be a fool not to grab 3/21 for Beltre, IMO. Beltre may not move untilt he market gets set with Figgins though so be patient.

    I like the two minor league contracts.

20. George Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Beltre, in my opinion, would be way overpriced at seven mil for three years. He’s no better than Feliz, and in that 3rd year will be just as old. He’s coming off an injury, and his one spectacular year was a fluke. I’d try him for one year with an option and incentives.

    The Phils are approaching Beltre because Boras takes his time. I’m sure they’re trying to determine right away if they have a remote chance of a bargain before everyone else–Polanco, DeRosa, Figgins–are snatched off the market by other teams. I don’t take this rumor as much of anything.

21. Georgie Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    Well, if it’s true he was on ‘roids, I’d be worried about recurring injuries, that stuff wears down your body, slower healing, tend to flab out and lose agility. Depending on how much he did (if he did), he could be physiologically as old as Pedro.

    Csn reported Jamie Moyer is back in the hospital with complications from his groin surgery…wish him well.

22. Kennedy Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    Beltre would be a nice pickup, he’s an excellent defender and knows how to hit. Definite upgrade over Feliz.

    I’d offer a 3 yr 18 million with a club option for a 4th year at 7 million with a 3 million buyout. Beltre has major upside, he’s been in the AL playing for the Mariners. In Safeco. What do we know about players coming from the Mariners and Safeco to the Phillies and the Bank? We know that Raul Ibanez had a monster season. Why? Better coaching, better park. From what I’ve read about Beltre, he’s been a warning track guy for the Mariners. In the Bank, those are HRs.

    I feel like we need a good 3b to compete with the AL teams, and there aren’t many guys who play great defense and can hit. Derosa is not a good choice, because he is older, below average defensively, and beloved by so many teams. Honestly if I had to sign Derosa to a 3 yr contract, I wouldn’t go over 14 Million, and I’d be hesitant to do that, he can hit and nothing else. He has major potential to be the next Geoff Jenkins for this team.

23. WorldFudgeChamp Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    Idk i think we are going to land Derosa though i can just feel it. And is it me or is this Roy Holladay drama just old now?

24. joedad Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Some people here are overvaluing Beltre. He might be worth $5 to $6 million for one year but he is not worth anything over 3 years. He had one career year in a contract year and one monstrous contract as a result. His hitting stats are not much better than Feliz’. He did not have a good year last year and it was a contract year. He hasn’t shown the ability to deserve anything than a one year deal.

25. Kennedy Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    Beltre plays gold glove defense and would probably hit on our team. I’d say that’s worth 6 million a year.

26. j reed Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Beltre suffered a shoulder injury and then a freak ruptured nut sack after getting racked by a hit ball. Keep in mind, Feliz under went back surgery in the off season last year….I’ll take a shoulder issue from a non pitcher than a back problem any day esp. when back surgeries have high failure rates and often result in a loss in range of motion. He is also a better fielder than Feliz and had to face alot of Angels pitching. I think he’d rake at CBP

27. Jeff Dowder Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Just what the Phillies need…another low OBP player that strikes out 100 times a year. Beltre would be a disaster.

28. George Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 9:32 am

    Back surgery has a high failure rate, but Feliz’s seemed to be success. Shoulder problems, I’m afraid, can be devastating as well; shoulder problems pretty much wrecked the career of Houston’s HOF caliber first baseman a few years back (Rats! Can’t think of his name!), and certainly hasn’t helped Scott Rolen over the years.

    Beltre is a HUGE RISK. He’s also a low OBP, high strikeout type. While he may not be a disaster, he’s not such an upgrade that he should be paid 1-3 million per year more than Feliz.

29. George Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 9:47 am

    J reed (and some others I’ve read) seems to think part of Beltre’s hitting slowdown is attributable to facing Angel’s pitching, and that he’d improve in the NL east. Given the talent in the NL east–Johann Santana, Josh Johnson, Javier Vasquez, Jair Jurgens, etc., is this even a logical argument? And on top of that, the Mets will likely be going after John Lackey–an ANGELS pitcher.

30. The Dipsy Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 10:15 am

    NO MORE HIGH STRIKEOUT GUYS PLEASE AND THANK YOU. Just sign Polanco and be done with it.

    The Dipsy

31. Brooks Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 10:36 am

    Happy Thanksgiving Phillies Nation!

    Beltre and Scott Boras – coming off a 5 year $64 mil contract? Comon, get real! Although he probably would settle for less than that amount thinking or wishing he will come in under 8 mil a year is a pipe dream. He is not worth that!
    If we could keep Feliz, I think all of us would be OK with that decision.

32. Georgie Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! I’m with Dips, just sign PP and be done with it. Save the rest of the $$$ for pitching.

33. Jesus Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    I think some of the people are undervaluing Beltre. He is a better defender much younger and has power to left field which would play very well at CBP. Remember he played his home games at Safeco Field which has always been tough on RH pull hitters. He still managed to average over 20 hr’s and his away SLG is over 100 pts higher away from Safeco. If you go by fangraph’s value his down 09 season was still worth 10.7 million. Meanwhile Pedro, who I loved, has only had one season that high in 07 which was worth 11.7 million. I think signing Beltre would be a huge upgrade and would keep our INF defense strong while adding a RH power bat that would give us 5 guys with 30 HR power. If we can get him for a 3yr 21-24 million I think it’s a no brainer.

34. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    polanco and derosa are not effective full time starters and each could realistically be signed to 1 year deals. you would have to sign BOTH of them in some sort of platoon operation at 3rd base and have bench bats. i dont see polanco in the picture whatsoever, but i do think derosa is still a possibility if beltre’s price is too high.

    joedad–beltre happend to play injured during his contract year last season 2009. he is 30 years old and has the greatest offensive production capabilities of any 3base FA. if the phils offered him a 1 year deal…boras would laugh. the dude is gettin multiyears somewhere thas for sure. the only question is how much and how long.

    brooks–i would not be okay with keeping feliz. ruben isnt an idiot. he sees this as the 1 position that we have the opportunity to upgrade and take the team in a better direction. i ll take figgins, beltre, polanco easily before i take feliz. nothin against pedro personally, its just there are better options out there and this is part of the business

35. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    amen jesus…good reply…i couldnt agree more

    happy thanksgiving everyone!

    beltre will be here as a christmas present. i guarantee it. 3yrs, 4th year option 24 million plus incentive bonuses. he numbers will blow you away next season when he is here and he is surrounded by great players.

36. Jeff Dowder Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    The old “his numbers will blow you away next season when he is here and he is surrounded by great players” mantra has already been used in the past with David Bell and Pedro Feliz. Beltre is exactly the type of player that the Phillies should be avoiding.

    This lineup needs a new dimension other than standing around waiting for the three run HR. It needs a leadoff hitter that actually gets on base (what a novel concept). Signing Figgins strengthens the lineup at both leadoff and the 7th slot.

37. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    ok sure spend 10mil a year for 5 years of figgins. thats the kind of deal hes lookin at. and then by year 2 of the contract, when hes 34 years old, and hes speed is deteriorating, he will be an average player. you will have another mediocre player in a huge contract. im not investing that much time/money into a guy with speed as his only attribute. jeff i bet u didnt even know who figgins was 2 years ago

38. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    oh and because jimmy had one bad year everyone is ready to give up on him??? hell lets give up on cole hamels and brad lidge too since they played like sh*t last year. jimmy has the tools and the diligence to come out next year swingin the bat real well.

39. Jeff Dowder Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    How is moving Rollins to the 7th slot “giving up on him”??? Leadoff hitters are supposed to set the table for the big bats. They’re supposed to get on base. They’re supposed to work the count. They’re supposed to be able to situational hit. Which of those attributes does Rollins show any sort of proficiency in? None. He swings for the fences in every AB, no matter what the score, no matter what the situation. He always has and he always will. Moving him to the 7th slot is not “giving up on him” – it’s simply putting him where’s he belonged for years now.

    Figgins isn’t getting 5 years or $50 million from anybody. You know that as well as I do. He will get more than Beltre because he’s a more valuable player. A team that in recent history blew $24 million on Adam Eaton and $13 million on Geoff Jenkins shouldn’t be concerned with paying a couple of million a year more over Beltre to get the better player.

    And you lost that bet jrollpatrol08.

40. joedad Says:
    November 26th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Supply = Demand dictates that Beltre isn’t worth more than a one or two year contract or a 3 year contract at a low price. There are quite a few free agent 3rd basemen who are at or just below Beltre’s level of production who will take a one or two year deal.

41. Jesus Says:
    November 27th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    I’m amazed at how much value people associate with Figgins. You are talking about a little above average player who had 2 maybe 3 good seasons and not in a row. He is going to get 4yrs at 10mill from someone, to those who don’t believe that please see Gary Matthews Jr., and I don’t see him worth that. He strikes out over 100 times a season, was thrown out 30% on his steal attempts, has a career high of 62 RBI’s in the AL, and has a career SLG of .388. I agree that JRoll isn’t the prototypical lead off hitter but he gets the job done. He scores tons of runs, drives in runs when runners are on base and steals bases at a high rate of success. So I think that overpaying for Chone just doesn’t make a lot of sense. Over the last 4yrs he has a total value of 51 million, take into account his season last yr was worth 27.4 million. Beltre over the last 4yrs has been worth 58.8 million. I would rather have Beltre for 2-3yrs at 7-8 million than Figgins for 4yrs at 10mill. We could take the extra 2-3 million to get an arm for the pen.

42. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 27th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    jeff i agree, figgins is probably an all around better player right NOW. but in 2 years at age 34 you think he’ll still have an above average obp? doubtful. let other teams waste their time on him becausehe will get about 10mil per year as the leader of the 3b FA pack. he would add a great scoring dimension for the phils, but in the long run i strongly believe the phils would get a better return on their money with beltre for 3 rather than figgins for 4-5.

    jesus u got it right

43. Geoff Says:
    November 27th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    I think its just fine to sign DeRosa or Polanco really. They need to add depth to the rotation, there is no second right handed starter. Drabek should not be rushed AT ALL, hes very young sitll. I wouldnt mind leaving him down there until September really. No hurry at all. Then they need a closer to be their plan B. They just need to convince one of the better ones on the market that he should come here and be the option if Lidge isnt ready.

44. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 27th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    i kinda like pavano as the 5th starter. i like him over the injury prone harden, bedard, sheets that everyone seems to be talking about. i think pavano still has 2 solid years left and he had areal cheap contract last year in the AL. performance based incentives, i think he would be a good fit, right hander, with experience…esp with the news of moyer, who knows how effective he will be even at the beginning. i realize he is paid for already, so they will want to use him somehow, but if he is injured he wont be any use in the rotation or bullpen. sounds like the brewers are targeting pavano, but we will see. considering his yankees debacle of a couple years ago, he had a decent comeback year last year in the AL central….

45. George Says:
    November 27th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Pavano? He’s been injury prone himself, doesn’t have the stuff of Bedard, Harden, or Sheets, and has seemed at times to be a head case.

    Let’s worry for now about 3rd base and how limited and overpriced the available talent is. I’m thinking more and more that there will be a large hole at third no matter who is signed. I just don’t see any of the free agents being all that much better than Feliz. I hope I’m wrong.

46. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 28th, 2009 at 3:44 am

    bedard could even hack it on the orioles. if you ask a cubs fan if they were impressed with harden, you woul hear a unanimous NO. and if sheets even played last year i dont remember. damn i dont remember either of these guys havin a year to mention in a while…

    heres the deal== i feel like pavano has just as good stuff and as much potential of winning over say the next 2 years. i feel like teams REALLY lookin for SP might gamble on the 2nd tier of pitchers like bedard, harden, sheets…im just sayin if pavano should be top on the radar for the phils if they are lookin for SP. he will be a low risk/high reward type pitcher in terms of salary. he had a good rebound year from injury. he has experience pitching in both leagues. i like him as another R handed guy in our rotation.

    but beltre is comin in at 3rd.

47. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 28th, 2009 at 3:45 am

    correction…bedard could ‘NOT’ even hack it on the orioles…

48. George Says:
    November 28th, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Not saying Bedard, Sheets, or Harden are great options. I’m saying Pavano is just as bad or worse. His ERA last season was 5.10, and he gave up the most hits of any pitcher in the majors.

    Pavano is also being courted by at least two other teams, the Twins and Brewers, and will not be cheap because of that. He’ll probably get more than double what he did last year. Maybe he’d be worth that, but it’s too big of a maybe. With his track record (one really good year, but overall about a .500 pitcher) he’s far more “high risk” than he’ll ever be “high reward.”

49. jrollpatrol08 Says:
    November 28th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    yea its just a tough one…i mean i do think they should try to get a righty starter…but after lackey its just a real crapshoot. duscherer (sp?) from oakland has good stuff but he is young enough to probably be stepping into a decent contract for years and money. dont know if the phils want to committ to that. and the guy missed last year because he was battling depression?? and alot of injury-prone guys there…pavano may not be the BEST choice, but i cant really think of many better options in FA

50. Jeff of Nova Says:
    November 28th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    we need to really start investing some time into finding a young guy in the draft or free agency that we can work into a premier 3rd baseman, signing 30+ guys to play the hot corner is getting old.

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