Phillies Nation

80 Responses to “Odds and Ends: Dykstra, Lowry, Howard”

1. Chuck Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 9:56 am

   1 – 2 – 3…..”You can never have too many arms.” !!!!

2. The Original Chuck P Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 10:24 am

   That Dykstra story is incredible… I didn’t realize how f’d up he was. He really is a sick human being…

3. Kevin from Macho Row Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 10:27 am

   Poor Dude. 1993 forever.

4. Matty N. Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 10:34 am

   I love you philliesnation.com You give me warm fuzzies……. like that commercial.

5. Drew Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 10:43 am

   Howard was exposed against lefthanders in the WS. I hope they’re working on it.

6. Dude Dykstra Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 10:46 am

   I am thinking about having a charity golf match or dart game to help defray some of my expenses. Any ideas of where to go in Philly? Also, I plan to raffle off some securities. I may write a book about my steroid era and other cool stuff to get back on my feet.

7. VGP Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 10:49 am

   @ Drew Howard was exposed in the WS? Have you seen his numbers against lefties all season? .207

8. Manny Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 11:12 am

   I just read that as of now, the 2011 FAs will include Pujols, Fielder, HOWARD, and Adrian Gonzalez… now that’s some quality first basemen… in theory, it should push the prices down.

9. The Original Chuck P Says:
   February 2nd, 2010 at 11:29 am

   That’s a nice crop of 1B… in theory it would drive the price down but if someone like Fielder signs first at a huge price, that’s going to set the market really high. Pujols is going to get a huge deal so I don’t know if his contract skews anything… but whoever signs first among the other names is kind of setting the bar.

   I would rank them Pujols, Gonzo, Howard and Fielder.

10. Matt Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 11:59 am

    I’d like to hear that Hamels is working out with Halladay.

11. Johnny Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    I think whoever signs Lowry to a minor league deal is making a very smart deal, but the fact that his bullpen session was pushed back is cause for concern, no matter what the excuse is.

12. bfo_33 Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Nails is a poster child for uncontrolled steroid use. He may actually have a third ear somewhere. Loved him as a player, but an absolutely horrible human being (The real Pete Rose jr).
    Certainly an impressive 1B crop, but Pujols will not be one of them. He will sign an extension, possibly before spring training. No way the Cards sign Holliday to that contract without commitment from Pujols. He’s the best player in baseball, but I really don’t think he’s going to be a free agent any time soon.
    Gonzalez is a very good player, power numbers coming up each year without a major sacrifice to avg, and he plays in a pitcher’s park. I’d still rank him behind Howard, though. Stud players on bad teams make me nervous.
    While a great hitter, and a surprising good athlete for his size, I wouldn’t touch Fielder. Howard, who has a ring and an MVP, comes back each year in better shape, works on his weak points. Fielder can’t manage to stay below 300lbs, and seems to have maturity issues. He’s going to try to break the bank, won’t even talk about an extension. Can’t say I blame him for wanting to leave Milwaukee.
    Pujols, Howard, Gonzo, Fielder.
    Echoing many others – cheap arms are always worth a look.

13. Bobby D Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Arms are cool. It makes me happy to read that Howard’s down there working on getting better. The guy just does all the right things.

    Screw what the groundhog says, spring starts when the Phillies say so.

14. Phylan Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Howard is abysmal against lefties, and I’m not sure if it’s really fixable. There’s a good analysis of it here based on pitch f/x: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/ryan-howard-against-lhps The long and short of it is, on balls from LHPs on the inside part of the plate, he can make contact but has very little power. On balls from LHPs away, he can hit for power, but he whiffs at a very high rate.

    It seems that he just can’t identify pitches properly from LHPs, and that’s a difficult skill to learn when you’re 30 years old in the MLB.

15. Don M Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Amazing that he still manages such great overall numbers.. good thing most pitchers are RIGHTY !!!

16. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Comparing Pete Rose to Lenny Dykstra is ridiculous..while Rose certainly hasn’t been a model citizen…to refer to Dykstra (who is trash) as Rose, Jr. is going overboard.

17. Phylan Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Yeah Don M, the other end of that spectrum is that there is probably no better hitter in the league save Albert Pujols against RHPs. Which underscores how tremendously stupid it was for Jim Tracy to leave Huston Street in to face Howard in the last game of the NLDS. He could’ve brought in a lefty and possibly gotten a much different result.

18. bfo_33 Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Was it the gambling on games he was involved in (and the subsequent lying), the speed and coke ring, the complete contempt for autograph seekers, or the failure to report earnings on memorabilia that make Rose so much better than Dykstra? At least Dykstra has the excuse that his mind is fried through unsupervised use of steroids.
    Philly doesn’t win the 80 WS without Rose pushing Schmidt. The 93 Phils are nowhere without Dykstra. They are two of the more important players in Philadelphia history, and I will never forget either for that. If I saw them, I’d buy them a beer and say thanks. On the other hand, I’d never do business with either, nor would I want either as a neighbor.
    There are some genuinely good guys from the Phils in my lifetime: Ashburn, Tony Taylor, Maddox, Luzinski, Manny Trillo, Larry Christensen, Sarge, Andersen, Bob Denier, Doug Glanville, Milt Thompson, Ryan Howard, …. Rose and Dykstra are a pair of cheaters who thought (and continue to think) that rules are for others. One is just a little crazier than the other.

19. j reed Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    I hope Rynox doesn’t get to skinny…all his nicknames will be like his pants…they won’t fit him anymore.

20. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    “It is a six-bedroom, eight- bath mansion, that was once vandalized, littered with beer bottles and dog feces, spewed raw sewage, and close to being deemed a biological hazard.” (From Reuters, Jan 29)

    Yeah….I guess that pretty much makes the case that Rose is just as bad as Dykstra.

    All your points are well taken, bfo_33, but….c’mon..

21. George Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Rose and Dykstra seem to suffer from some of the same symptoms, but Lenny is definitely the crazier of the two. I’ve never read that Rose ever asked his driver to beat someone up.

    It’s possible that Pete Rose learned some lessons: he’s apologized for some things. But without years of psychiatric help I don’t think Dykstra will ever improve. At present, he sounds dangerous. Someone needs to start commitment proceedings before that man kills somebody.

22. Don M Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Pete Rose .. Hall of Famer in everyone’s eyes

    Lenny Dykstra.. Hall of Shame

    Dykstra played hard, and we loved him… and then his life went right down the drain, unfortunately, he took a lot of people with him.. he’s a scumbag.. maybe he can get a job at one of the Car Washes he used to own

23. bfo_33 Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Chuck, I’ll give you that one. I used to clean up, repair, and paint apartments between occupants. While most people left the places in reasonable condition, every once in a while I’d get one of those places that was just completely trashed – feces in the tub, pee stained walls (to the extent drywall had to be replaced), giant holes in doors, a pile of dirty diapers in the corner, easily accessed copper removed,…, had to go in with a tyvex suit and respirator. It would be nice to think that the place was vandalized after Dykstra left, but probably not true.

24. Jeff of Nova Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    The comparison with Rose and Lenny are sadly similiar in the personaly dept, but I want Rose in the Hall because of what Rose did on the field!!

    Lenny did some great things on the field buy not for 3 decades

25. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    I went on record, long ago, saying that Howard is so horrible against lefties that he should be dropped down to sixth against them in the order. Thats how bad it is. I am not a batting coach, but for the life of me, Ryan would be best served by just going up and looking dead fastball and if it is a breaking ball, don’t swing, no matter where it is. He should take the first pitch EVERY TIME against lefties. Taking away his aggressiveness? Too bad. Bruise his ego? I’m sorry. As many runs as we scored last year, we also gave up a lot due to Howard’s impotence against lefties.

    The Dipsy

26. Dude Dykstra Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Thank you for comparing me to Pete Rose. I agree 100%.

27. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Great idea…but you know Charlie…he’ll never drop him to fifth.

28. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    sorry…SIXTH

29. Dude Dykstra Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    I was told recently that I would be considered for the Tobacco Chewing Hall of Fame and will be stationed next to Nellie Fox.

30. psujoe Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Howard’s ineptitude against lefties is exactly why the Phils have to retain Werth.

31. bfo_33 Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Howard hit left handers half decent his first full year up. I could live with the strikeouts on the outside breaking ball, since he hits his share of dingers on that pitch, but that inside pitch kills him, especially with the defensive shift. If he could figure out a way to push that pitch to the opposite field with a little on it, Howard would get an extra 30 rbis a year.
    Even though I don’t think much of him personally, I’d stand in line to sign a petition for Rose to enter the hall of fame as long as he is never in a position to impact the outcome of a game again.

32. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Pete Rose can never go in the Hall of Fame. Ever. If he does, the Hall of Fame will mean nothing. As its is there are about 25-30 players that have no business being in there. Its so diluted. But thats different that the Rose issue. If Ryan looked at more pitches he would be fine. I can understand him not wanting to try to constantly beat the shift because it might mess up his swing but I would be all in favor of a slug bunt down the line. Ryan could be it out no problem. There’s no one there.

    The Dipsy

33. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Yeah…I was gonna say, Dipsy…I mean… Ty Cobb KILLED a guy…and he’s in.

34. bfo_33 Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    The Hall of Fame is the Disney story of Baseball, cleaned up and G rated (or at least like Disney when I was a kid – now it looks like Melrose place). I’d like to see it more as a historical representation of baseball. Put Rose in there, along with the circumstances that got him banned. Open the Bud Selig Wing for the PED users, put the life story of Ty Cobb in there,…. There are a lot of great players, many who were good guys, but many had their issues.

35. Don M Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    The Hall of Fame is a museum …. and for them to not include the player with the most HITS in the history of the game is a joke

    He bet on baseball …

    So put him in the Hall of Fame and put *Rose was banned for life from the game of Baseball in 19– for gambling. …

36. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    You know…I like that, bfo…Some of these players were amazing in their own right….but led or have been leading lives that have “brought them down.”

    People (fans) should be able to see for themselves how good they were…how they contributed to the game….but, also…how they screwed up.

37. Don M Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    There is a certain comfort-level that managers like their players to have… bouncing guys to different spots in the order messes that up

    which is why you won’t see Howard bat 6th against LHP

    and because after the 6th inning.. when a team brings their RHP into the game, you still want Howard getting the max number of at-bats …

    Their lineup works well just the way it is, no need to overthink it

38. NEPA Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Ty Cobb KILLED a guy?

39. Manny Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    I agree with you Don on both Rose in the HOF and Howard staying put in the lineup. Howard is a monster, and he’s doing justttt fineeee in the No. 4 spot… you want to see him get as many at bats as possible!

40. The Second John Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    I think the whole hall of fame system needs to be overhauled. The voting system has to be revamped. I still have have a hard time believing that the writers turned blank ballots last year when you have Sandy Alomar and Bert Blyleven still not in! Also, it’s supposed to be a museum. They should just create a “steroid wing” to the hall of fame. You can’t just ignore a huge black mark on the game.

    I don’t think Howard should be moved from the 5th spot. Who else are you going to put there? It’s not like Jayson Werth has been lighting it up against right handers. Also, Charile doesen’t seem like he will change his lineup that much anyway.

41. mikemike Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Nepa what cobb did was after he was inducted into the hall and had nothing to do with his baseball stats>. Rose deserves to be in the hall his stats warranty it, he didnt use drugs to get hits.

42. WFC010 Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    If Howard was a little better against lefty pitching, I think he would easily hit 50+ homers most seasons, instead of 40+ like we have been seeing usually. Glad to hear he’s working on improving, and hopefully he can do something to hit better against lefties. Also very happy to hear that Roy is already down there, you have to LOVE his work ethic of constantly trying to improve.

    Also I heard a while back that Cole Hamels and Rich Dubee would be going to Clearwater a few weeks early, but I haven’t heard much since then.

43. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Actually it was in 1912 that the “incident” occurred..

    http://www.baseballguru.com/bburgess/analysisbburgess01.html

    There are conflicting arguments whether he actually did it, but the point is Cobb was a violent and disturbed figure….and if any of today’s players had that “baggage”…they would be most likely banned.

44. PhxPhilly Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    It does not matter much where Howard bats. If it is an important spot expect a lefty to pitch. Werth is a great complement (to Howard) because he destroys lefties. But most teams stack extra lefties in the playoffs just to pitch to Howard. The fact that Utley bats ahead of Howard is a bonus and that Ibanez might bat after Howard is even better for the opposing manager. Ideally the lineup would flow Howard, Werth, Utley, Ibanez. That would require 3 pitchers for those 4 hitters because of the severe splits of Howard and Werth.

45. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    That’s why we gotta hope that Werth somehow can be retained….it’s so valuable having that weapon in the lineup.

46. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Pete Rose’s “indiscretions” directly impacted the game of baseball. Killing a guy is not a big deal. Fergie Jenkins and Orlando Cepeda had documented drug busts. Nothing to do with baseball. As far as I’m concerned, if Hitler retired with a .330 lifetime average HE should be in. Extreme example. The idea of having Howard get as many at bats as possible is not a good one against lefties, plain and sample. He stinks. He’s woeful. Stop it. He should be batting sixth and Werth should be batting 4th against lefties so HE can get the most at bats. Get the better hitters more at bats than the bad hitters. Or am I missing something?

    The Dipsy

47. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    “Killing a guy is not a big deal.”

    Now I’ve heard it all..

48. Andrew Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Whatever he took. He took the extra good stuff for the playoffs. I respect that. The 93 team was a steriod team. do I like them any less? Hell no thats how the game was then. they were a good closer away from a championship. Wish Mitch had hit the juice that the toehrs were on. Might have gotten a title.

49. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Chuck – I mean “killing a guy is no big deal when it comes to getting in the Hall of Fame?

    The Dipsy

50. Jeff of Nova Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    Don,

    I agree with you completely on Rose, Dipsy, I don’t agree with him never being in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame is about the game not what the idiot did later. I mean if a known doper gets in to the Hall of Fame then you have to put Rose in.

    He was what every kid wanted to be and he worked harder than everyone else in the game for 2 decades.

    He had a sickness with gambling, I mean Ruth was a sloth and alcoholic.
    Cobb , see forementioned, and many others were scumbags and criminals.

51. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    But if we’re gonna reject guys like Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson, the “Steroid” Guys (maybe, probably some of them)…for what they did….then Cobb shouldn’t be in there….BECAUSE he killed someone.

    And I’m all for letting Rose in….and just posting what he did….in PLAIN view….so everyone can see..

    ____

    Ryan Howard…I can see both arguments….keeping him cleanup…because he’s comfortable with it…as well as the rest of the lineup.. Like Don said…sometimes you can “overthink it.”

    BUT…I can also see your point, Dipsy…if he sucks with those “extra at-bats”…because he facing a lefty…then maybe the percentages say he should be moved…

52. The Second John Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Usually your best power hitter hits 4th, because that then they get to drive in more runs. Howard is our best power hitter, so that’s why he’s batting fourth. Besides, it’s not like Charlie is going to make a switch anyway.

53. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    Chuck – Rose did the only thing that you can’t do in baseball. Gamble. You can rape (Cesar Cedeno), kill (Ty Cobb), get busted for drugs (Cepeda, Jenkins), cheat (spitballs, corked bats). There is a reason that no gambling is Rule #1 and thats because gambling leads to fixing games which cuts to the very heart of the integrity of baseball. And thats why Rose or Joe Jackson cannot and will not get in. Rose bet on games he was involved in for gods sake! You’re gonna let that guy in? And the argument of “what a player he was, don’t punish him for having an addiction” is like saying “Why can’t Nixon still be president even though he screwed up a little on that Watergate thing”? No. No. No. A thousand times No.

    The Dipsy

54. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Hey thanks Second John. Read the posts before yours.

    The Dipsy

55. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Ok…First…Rose SHOULD be in because he is the all-time hits leader…you put him in and simply “tell his story” to the museum-goers…and you tell it LOUD and with ALL the juicy, accurate details..

    You can basically state…”Pete Rose is the all -time hits leader…and for that he deserves to be in the HOF….but he’s a scumbag because he bet on his own team.”

    You do that for anybody that has committed what could be considered a “heinous” or “despicable” crime. Whether it comprimises the “integrity of the game” or not. Gambling. Killing. Rape. Drugs. Steroids. Whatever…

56. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Chuck – What don’t you understand? You cannot be in the Hall of Fame of an entity if you smeared the integrity of that entity. He took it and spit on it and dragged it through the mud and pissed all over it. There is no amount of greatness in performance that can outweigh that. You can put him in the museum if you want, I don’t give a damn about that. Hell, give him a whole wing. Offenses that effect the integrity of the game are markedly different, and deservedly so, than offenses or crimes that have nothing to do with baseball.

    The Dipsy

57. psujoe Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Has it been proven that Pete Rose bet on baseball while a player? if not there’s zero reason to keep him out for something he did as a manager. He should be expelled from the game-life time ban, but be in the hall. If he bet on games while a player it’s a much grayer decision.

58. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Dipsy, I hear you.. I understand your argument. I just don’t see how you can compare the taking of a human life…to gambling…even if the gambling affected the game…and the killing didn’t.

    Killing someone….I pretty sure it’s considered the worst possible thing someone can do, right?? So why ignore that….and then turn around and punish someone because he gambled??

    Put Rose in…yeah, give the guy a whole effing wing…BUT….blare it out so everyone notices…”Pete Rose deserves to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame because of his records and his play and because he’s the all-time hits leader, but he’s committed these crimes…some of which have tarnished the image of baseball …and humanity in general.”

    And then let the people, the fans, the museum patrons judge him on their own.

59. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Better yet Chuck, put him on the ballot and if gets in he gets in. Even if he gets on the ballot, no way he gets 75%. But I think he might be past that and the Veterans Committee might have to select him. I don’t think thats happening either. So, do you agree that Joe Jackson should be in?

    The Dipsy

60. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Yes. Shoeless Joe should be in.

61. Chuck Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    What about Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod….any of the “steroid” guys??

62. marty Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Don’t feel sorry for Dykstra. His story is not a fall but one of a lying, crooked con man who stole from others. He deserves all he gets.

63. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    He helped FIX the World Series, Chuck. No prob, I guess.

    The Dipsy

64. shag beta sigma delta Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    I think historians have generally thought the Shoeless Joe, did not participate in the fixing of the world series. He was an illiterate and did not know what he was involved in. And did not understand the statement he signed. His stats were on par with his stats for the year. He made no errors and those who saw the games did not ever think he was with the others that were fixing the games. I may be wrong, and but I have done a little research on the topic after seeing Eight Men Out. Mostly because the movie portrays Shoeless Joe and not really being involved and I did not believe it, I thought they were all in on it. And the little historical “proof” out there leads me to believe that the film portrayed it pretty accurately, so he should be in.

65. psujoe Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    The Dipsy,

    I don’t think Jackson is out of the hall because “he fixed” the WS. ISn’t he out because he consorted(is that a word) with those that conspired to fix the WS. No?

66. psujoe Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    I retract my statement, I just read the court transcript. WOW.

67. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Well, I don’t know. If he merely “consorted” with gamblers, then he should be in. But if Jackson doesn’t go on the ballot with a lower threshold of wrongdoing than Pete, that doesn’t hold out much hope for Pete.

    The Dipsy

68. The Dipsy Says:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    I think that we should start taking players OUT of the Hall. If you look at the guys that were voted in and selected during the 40’s, its just ridiculous. Tinker, Evers & Chance are in for god’s sake. The Veteran’s Commitee shouldn’t even be allowed to exist anymore. Why would they put a player like Joe Gordon in? He had every chance to be voted in and wasn’t. Same with Richie I hate to say it. Nellie Fox? Lou Boudreau? All nice players but, damn.

    The Dipsy

69. Chuck Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 9:45 am

    So it comes back to the point that the Hall of Fame is really no more than a joke.

    Yeah, maybe taking player out is a good idea….Your’e kicked out of school if you cheat or do drugs ….so why not the Hall??

70. The Dipsy Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 10:01 am

    I think that guys should be thrown out mainly beacuse they were not good enough to get in in the first place.

    The Dipsy

71. Chuck Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 10:13 am

    It seems like the standards for admission are somewhat “variable” There is no consistency, thus one can always make an agrument that this player or that player shouldn’t be in…that he doesn’t have the career to justify it.

72. Evan Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Howard will sign for a lot in 2011, but I’m fairly certain that Fielder will be the highest paid FA first baseman (assuming Pujols signs the extension everyone expects him to sign). He is already just as good as Howard at the plate and he’s got more upside because he’s so young, plus he doesn’t have the drastic lefty/righty splits. If he doesn’t drop some of that poundage though he better sign to the AL cause he will be strictly DH material.

    Seriously, if you make professional baseball money there’s no excuse to be that fat!

73. bfo_33 Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Unless you are an offensive lineman, there is no excuse for anyone to be as fat as Fielder. Would I like to hit the drive through on the way home, then polish off a six pack – sure, but I know what I’d look like (unfortunately, from experience). I’m not saying he does either of those things, but he obviously has some bad habits that he cannot control. At some point, you have to grow up and take care of yourself.
    I agree he’ll sign for the highest, and while Cecil played well late in life with a lot of extra pounds, at some point the knees or back are going to fall apart. Not a risk I’d take.
    The Hall should be re-screened – break out wings of the very best (Cobbs, Williams, Ruth, Aaron, Mays, Schmidt, Ripken, Gwynn…), the hall of really good (such as Whitey and Rizzuto, Jim Rice, Gary Carter, Tony Perez,…), the PED era (anyone from 90 on),… Baseball never admits to past mistakes, so it will never happen.

74. Georgie Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Oh boy, Pete Rose and the Hall of fame, my dad and I have had this argument many times. Dad says yes, it’s over and done, and there’s guys in there who have done worse things. I have to agree with Dips on this one, you NEVER, EVER bet on your own sport. Rose knew what he was doing, isn’t there a sign in every MLB lockerroom concerning betting? The man played ball with everthing he had, and I doubt the ‘80 team would have won the WS without him. BUT, he did the ONE thing you absolutely cannot do…

    Dykstra, on the other hand, fried what little brain power he did have with steroids and who knows what else, he’s really pathetic at this point.

75. shag beta sigma delta Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Ok now it is time to excited just got my home opener tickets, right next to my Sunday Package seats, April can not get here soon enough. GO PHILLIES

76. George Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    The HOF can’t be judged in retrospect. Eras were different, and different criteria applied during those eras. What was HOF then might not be now; what is HOF now, might not have been then. Who, really was better, Cy Young, who won 511 games, or Robin Roberts, who won fewer than 300?

    Who should be pulled out? Not many people around now actually saw some of these players in action. Nellie Fox retired decades ago, and his prime came decades before that. Maybe his stats don’t look spectacular, but it was a different era with different standards, and, as has been argued so many times on this very site, stats don’t tell the whole story, anyhow.

77. The Dipsy Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    George. If a player can’t garner the requisite amount of votes during his term of eligibility, I can’t see why the veteran’s committee should be able to vote that player in.

    The Dipsy

78. psujoe Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    I don’t like the vertans committee one bit.

79. WFC010 Says:
    February 3rd, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    I actually DO like the Veterans Committee, since it’s a great way for under-appreciated and overlooked greats to have another chance of making the Hall. Too often, it seems like a popularity contest when deciding who goes in, so a Veterans Committee IS needed to offer another viewpoint.

80. James Kay Says:
    February 4th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    Hitler hit .330? He would probably be a fielding liability while positioned at second base and hit more like .250 with a hand full of surprise homers. I could envision him as a Gene Mauch type of scrappy player willing to do anything to win. The moustache would work well in advertising endorsements.

    People who never saw Rose play in person really should not try to judge him for HOF induction. He played the game with a superlative level of focused intensity and a blind spirit to win that could only be fully appreciated if you were there at the park to experience it. I have never seen players on the field show more respect for another player than Rose. Pete is an irrepressible winner who belongs in Hall.

    Being kicked out of the HOF is a little like being kicked out of Heaven. It just can’t happen.

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