Moyer’s injury, another Phillies loss take back seat to Trade Talks

Posted by Kieran Carobine, Wed, July 21, 2010 12:28 AM

The bright spot for the Phillies tonight was that Jamie Moyer pitched well.  He baffled hitters inducing ground balls and keeping them off balance.  He allowed only two hits in his 19th outing of the season.  Wait for it.  The bad part?  He left after the first inning with a strained left elbow.  That alone can sum up what is happening to the Phillies right now.

St Louis starter Chris Carpenter (11-3, 3.05) kept Phillies hitters guessing the whole night going eight innings while scattering five hits and only allowing one run.  The Phils have now lost five of six since the All Star break.  Over those six games the offense has averaged only four runs per game.  The Phils watched the Cardinals pound out 15 hits in route to a 7-1 victory.  With the Braves beating the Padres, the Phightins are now seven games back of the division leader and in third place.

If losing Moyer wasn’t bad enough, the Phillies sent starter Kyle Kendrick to Triple-A Lehigh Valley earlier in the day.  The move was said to allow for another arm out of the bullpen in Andrew Carpenter.  This Carpenter came in for Moyer in the 2nd inning and took the loss giving up three earned runs in three innings.

With Kendrick gone and Moyer possibly missing time, it looks like the Phillies are without starters for this weekend’s games against the Colorado Rockies.  Enter Ruben Amaro.  He made it a point to not say anything in particular about what the team would do about Saturday’s starter.  When asked about possible starters for this weekend he did say, “We do have some other balls in the air.”

What those ‘other balls’ are no one is really sure.  The Phillies have been in talks with a handful of teams for a starting pitcher.  Early talks had Amaro looking at middle of the rotation kind of guys.  Think Joe Blanton circa 2008.  Cleveland’s Jake Westbrook, Baltimore’s Jeremy Guthrie and Oakland’s Ben Sheets are a couple of names the Phillies would consider ‘bargain’ pitchers.  The Yankees’ Javier Vasquez, Arizona’s Dan Haren and Chicago’s Ted Lilly have also come up in possible trade scenarios.

The Yankees were heavy into the Cliff Lee trade talks and ESPN’s own Buster Olney was even quoting a team executive saying the deal ‘is just about done.’  While the world waited for the announcement of Lee in pinstripes (and not red ones) the idea of a Jayson Werth for Vasquez deal popped up and was quickly killed.  As we all know now, Lee ended up in Texas and many Philly fans were calling for Werth’s uniform.

Werth’s impending free agency has put him under a gigantic microscope not only in Philadelphia but the entire baseball community.  Should the Phillies move him now for a starting pitcher and make room for ’superstar’ in waiting Domonic Brown?  Brown is tearing it up in Triple-A patiently waiting for the call.

So before I write myself out of too many updates, I will sum all this trade talk up with the latest.  ESPN’s Jayson Stark and Olney are getting crash courses in Twitter this evening frantically posting every drawn out and redundant tweet.  What we do know is that Amaro and the front office are said to be in serious talks with teams about landing a frontline pitcher.  Early indications are pointing to Roy Oswalt in a deal which would include Werth in a companion deal with a third mystery team.  The Tampa Bay Rays seem to be tops on a list of teams that would like his services.

On the surface, Oswalt seems a great fit in Philadelphia.  He is a proven starter and another genuine ace.  On paper, and I mean tax forms, he may look pricey (due $7mil rest of season and $16mil for next) but if Houston is willing to throw in some cash on top of dumping Werth’s wishlist contract for next year and the Phillies could afford him.  The only problem I see is that the longer this deal doesn’t happen is bad for Philly.  It is no secret Werth, despite going 2 for 4 tonight, has been slumping lately and could possibly be damaging his trade value.  However, at season’s end he will still be one of the most sought after free agent outfielders.  It would make more sense for the Phillies to take advantage of his value now.  Especially with a guy like Brown ready to go.

As of right now, it doesn’t seem a trade scenario has been presented to Oswalt who holds a full no-trade clause in his current contract and can veto any trade presented to him.  In the past he said, if traded, he would like to end up in the South or Midwest.  He would have to approve a move to Philly first before anything else could happen.

Amaro is staying hush hush on a possible deal telling Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports that the team is ‘not close to a trade.’ Classic Ruben.  It is bound to be an exciting night and next couple of days for the Phillies.

And we’re back.

As for the now, the Phillies have Joe Blanton, Cole Hamels and Roy Halladay finishing off the week.  The goal has to be scraping out a split with the Cards and getting the Rockies series off to a good start.  The Phillies will be facing Jaime Garcia (8-4, 2.27) and Adam Wainwright (14-5, 2.02) to finish off this series.  No one said baseball was easy.  Especially in Philadelphia.

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53 Responses to “Moyer’s injury, another Phillies loss take back seat to Trade Talks”

  1. Andrew from Waldorf Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Regardless of what the trade is. It will divert attention from the sorry state of the current team. If you do nothing ( like the guy from Toronto last year) you are open to be crucified.
    Lose the next 2 in St louis and you are only 1 game over .500 and the season may well be over.

  2. Jeff Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:08 am

    oswalt will be here to start saturday. werth will go to tampa. be nice to get back shields. i think happ is going too. oswalt, doc, hamels, and shields. crap. who needs hitting. we will start winning and stick brown in right. oh baby. i just got excited. they will bounce back. i know it baby.

  3. bacardipr05 Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:11 am

    If they get Oswalt the whole Lee thing sounds more absurd. I personally still love Werth he is in slump and probably a lot going on in that club house that he isnt/doesnt know how to respond. You know he will back to kill us bet on it if we trade him. I can almost assure you moment he is traded he will snap out of this funk. Time is winding down on this team. To the point they may as well start to rebuild for next year. No not quite yet to that point but real close. I also think they should and never mention this before take a look at J-Roll. He should have his “Sea Legs”back by now. Same Valdez cant hit just a lil better. Farm system is depleted there are many problems and questions for this team. Just hope RAJ does the right thing this time. I think this Lee deal really did a lot more than we can see moral wise…

  4. Chris.I Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:12 am

    Take that negativity someplace else. Who gives a shit how many games were out the division or wildcard? Getting Oswalt and possibly Shields along with Halladay, Hamels, and Blanton would mean one thing….We’ll have one of best (if not the BEST) starting picthing in all of baseball. We’d climb so fast ahead of the wildcard it would make Steinbrener roll around in his grave three times. Im telling you…When Brown comes up its going to be curtains.

  5. Jeff Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:16 am

    chris i just pissed myself. lol. we will bounce back. roy, roy, hamels. holy crap. we have so many games to go. we cant rebuild. it would not be fair to doc, howard and utley. its win now. ruin knows this very well. doc did not come here to rebuild. win now baby. i love oswalt. he would be huge. 5 games back is nothing. just start a winning streak now. lets win against the cards then take the rockies apart. if you have doc, roy, and hamels i like our chances.

  6. George Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:19 am

    “Regardless of what the trade is,” Amaro will be crucified anyway. He can’t do anything right in the eyes of spoiled Phils fans. Some people are even blaming him for ruining the “team chemistry” by replacing Lee with Halladay. I think there are probably fans who think he personally ruined Utley’s thumb, Polanco’s elbow, and Happ’s forearm.

  7. Chris.I Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:28 am

    If Amaro makes this happen it would heal all of his wounds. Lee was NOT coming back after this season anyway, so enough about Lee. Oswalt can be resigned after this season, Lee couldn’t. In a year or two from now were all going to look back and say ”Amaro was a genius”. Don’t forget hes not just the GM, hes a long life fan just like the rest of us here.

  8. George Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:32 am

    My wish is that they move Ryan Madson. He’s been bad all year, and will remain bad because everyone knows his pitch selection tendencies. He’s also an idiot and has a d**k (Scott Boras) for an agent. This year, he’s been worse than Baez, if that’s even possible.

  9. Chris.I Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:38 am

    Jeff: Save the piss for when the news flashes across our televisions tomorrow moring. It’ll be one hell of a celebration for all of us, thats for sure.

  10. George Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:42 am

    The Phils will have to give up more than Werth to get either Oswalt or Shields, let alone both of them. Werth would be a rental, and won’t command a whole lot.

    Another factor to consider is Oswalt’s no-trade clause.

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  12. Jason Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:50 am

    The deal they should make is with the rays. just straight up werth for either wade davis or jeremy hellickson. we’d be adding a young, cheap high cieling pitcher. Hellickson would be my choice, he’s the #1 pitching prospect and is ready to start. but who knows if the rays would go for that.

  13. jonnyboy Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 1:56 am

    which shields are we talking about? the pitcher from tampa?

  14. bacardipr05 Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 2:38 am

    I would like a prospect in return also if we trade worth for Shields way i see it Jason

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  17. jt Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 4:26 am

    They said on mlb cholly said moyer will be put on dl,so they will be needing another pitcher no matter what…I think an oswalt trade would be good if he can stay healthy he aleady said awhile back he would like to play for phillies…either way werth is gonna be gone weither they trade him or he becomes a free agent because they clearly won’t be resigning him,so ust get it over with trade him and get something in return istead of just letting him walk…

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  19. Adrian Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 5:31 am

    Ok, this team is not hitting. Given all the injuries that still plague the team, will one or two starting pitchers be enough to get the bats going? There’s more than two months left of this still-salvageable season, but all I can think is how much this reminds me of five years ago when the Braves still ruled and everyone in the NL East was fighting for distant second.

  20. Lisa Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 6:13 am

    Um… you might want to turn off the pingbacks and trackbacks option. You’re getting a crapload of splog spam.

  21. Ed R. Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 6:32 am

    This is all well and good except the Phillies could have had Lee for less than it would take for Oswalt. Not to mention Lee is better than Oswalt in just about every way, and to top it off…the bats are the issue, not pitching. But whatever, I am good with moving Werth for something, anything at this point.

    Maybe Ruben can trade himself? Because I doubt he will get fired anytime soon.

  22. Rob in New Jersey Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 6:42 am

    I am a Phillies fan from the Connie Mack Stadium days, so not a “fair Weather” fan.

    It’s been a hard luck season so far. A trade will be made in the next day or so. It will be an “ok” trade not stellar. Remember this is not the Yankee’s.

    I’ll be glad to see the Stadium not sold out later this season, perhaps even by the series with Arizona and the possibility that I can get a nice seat for a respectable price.

  23. Bob Myers Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 7:19 am

    This Cards series will be our bottom. After that, we climb up by winning series after series after series. A healthy Phillies line up is still the best line up in the NL.

    A trade will bring hope for a new team.

  24. Lou Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 7:30 am

    I applaud your optimism. I am so excited now. I can’t wait to see Dom.

  25. Chuck Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 7:37 am

    How is Danys Baez any worse than Ryan Madson as George suggests??

    Just by the numbers alone, yes, Madson’s ERA is a little more than a full point higher than Baez’…..but Baez’ is over 5 so I wouldn’t exactly call that very good.

    Also, Madson’s WHIP is 1.46 compared to Baez at 1.73

    But the most glaring thing is the K/BB ratio. Madson: 15/3 Baez 20/20!!!

    George suggests that Madson is an idiot. Why?.. because he kicked a chair? Ok. That was a stupid thing to do. He genuinely felt bad about it, apologized to Charlie, his team and the fans. That’s good enough for me. People make mistakes and this was an isolated incident. It’s not like the guy is a cancer in the clubhouse or has some violent history.

    Maybe I’m just DONE with Danys Baez. I thought the signing was a good one when it was announced in the winter. He has a history of success and bounced back nicely last year after a terrible 2007 and missing 2008 completely.

    Last night was it for me. Two walks and a home run. Just like that. I can’t watch him any more.

  26. bfo_33 Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 7:37 am

    Not sure how Werth would net Oswalt and Shields – assuming the deal discussed is Werth to Tampa, Shields to Astros, Oswalt to Phila, with some prospects and money flying around.

    Not a terrible deal, but it makes the rotation heavily right handed. Werth may just need a change of scenary at this point. If this deal (or something like it) goes through, Brown is going to face an extraordinary amount of pressure, and while he’s not some 20 year old kid, the Phaithful can destroy the confidence of seasoned vets.

    Since Happ doesn’t appear to be ready yet, assume a deal happens this week (or KK is recalled to start over the weekend). Bob, I think last night was the bottom, will see the Phils at least split the last two games, then start progressing (Col not playing well of late, then Ari, Wsh, Fla).

  27. Ed R. Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 7:43 am

    Anyone else want to board the Anti Baez train? Been conducting that bitch since the day he signed.

    I agree with you Chuck. Madson may not be having the best season ever but I will take Madson with a broken foot over a healthy Baez any day of the week.

    Also, why is Baez the only one not getting hurt? WTF!?!

  28. Chuck Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 7:57 am

    Ed….I remember about 2 months ago that you hinted that it would be nice (not really) if Baez got hit in the head or something. Last night I thought of that post as I watched him serve up that HR.

    Of course, I don’t wish that on anyone….and I will continue to root for the guy as long as he has a Phillies uniform on…because, well…that’s just the right thing to do.

    But the dude really pisses me off and I cringe every time I see him. I guess that’s not fair as other relievers have struggled too. But at least Madson, Durbin, Romero and Lidge have had success with THIS team in the past. Contreras has been pretty good most of the year and Herndon is young and in a unique situation with the Rule 5 thing so I can’t really fault him for anything. I actually think HE (Herndon) will be ok eventually and may be worth keeping??

  29. sportsphan Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 7:58 am

    Absolutely agree about Baez. I was at CBP for Halladay’s first home start of the season and Baez was brought in with a more than comfortable lead in “relief”. We won the game by one run. Nuff said.

  30. The Dipsy Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 7:59 am

    I don’t think anyone is talking about Oswalt AND Shields. My guess is that its either Texas or Boston. How would you feel about this rotation for next year?

    Doc
    Cole
    Oswalt
    Blanton
    Happ (healthy)

    Not bad.

    The Dipsy

  31. Ed R. Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 8:15 am

    I agree Dipsy…it’s not Oswalt and Shields unless Happ is part of a package.

    I think Werth goes somewhere for prospects and Oswalt or Sheets comes here for a starter(Happy) and a prospect or two.

    Either way, I would take Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt/Haren/Sheets, Blanton and someone to be figured out later over what we have now.

  32. NJ Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 8:19 am

    I doubt it’s a deal that’s on the table but a Werth for Shields deal would be a fantastic move. I don’t think Oswalt’s the solution but maybe I’m ageist…

    I think once the team is on it’s way to healthy the bad will even out to good. I’m doing a 180 and I do agree with those that say getting a legit front of the rotation arm will turn the tide, even if accepting that Werth’s gone with no shot of locking him up.

    That said I do hope people back off the Lee-bandwagon, as good as we would have been this year the fans have to accept that it would have hurt the team down the road.

  33. Manny Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 8:24 am

    Please don’t trade Happ!

    That is all.

  34. BurrGundy Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 8:35 am

    We will all be pissed when the trade is announced because we will further gut our farm system. THe Phillies winning a playoff spot this year is like trying to catch butterflies with twezers. Ain’t gonna happen. No dynasty in Philly. Smoke that pipe.

  35. Chuck Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Does anybody on here realize just how hard it is to get the postseason for 4 years in a row…let alone a World Series for 3?? Teams just don’t do it all the time.

    With the injuries that we’ve sustained this year I’m actually surprised that we even have the record we do and are as close in the race as we are…… 7 out of the NL East and 4 out of the Wild Card….. On July 21st with 69 games to play.

    Before the St Louis series started I thought that trading Werth was stupid…if it meant getting a starting pitcher. But with Kendrick in his situation now, Moyer hurt and we don’t really know what’s up with Happ, I guess that’s what the Phillies feel they have to do and I guess I understand it.

    If that’s the case….and Dom Brown is called up….I have only one wish….PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE Phillies fans…..give this guy some space and don’t heap mounds of pressure on him.

  36. NJ Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:01 am

    Love it Chuck! Glad more people are saying those things especially about Brown.

    That’s exactly why you trade Lee before the season, you don’t expect to be in the series for 3 straight years so you have to make sure you can be in it 3 years down the line…

  37. jcole Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:03 am

    can we get rid of blanton in that mix too? maybe a blanton / baez for Barry Bonds? I know Bonds isn’t playing, but can we still do it? Even if Bonds has to pitch a few innings, it cant be as stomach-churning as watching Baez.

  38. BurrGundy Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Espect Ruben to trade Dom Brown. He is our biggest chip and it will be necessary for Amaro to use him as that.

  39. Chuck Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:17 am

    I think they got rid of Lee to be competitive for for years down the line….but also knowing that they had a BETTER team…at least on paper …going into this season. I think they felt that they could very well go to the Series again this year AND remain a force for many years.

    They knew that Halladay is better than Lee….which he is. And they felt VERY STRONGLY that Hamels would bounce back….which he has.

    There is no doubt that the CONSTANT barrage of injuries has plagued this team. Without them, they are in first place right now.

  40. George Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:30 am

    I’ll grant that Baez has probably been worse than Madson in some ways. But what good is a set-up man with an ERA over 6.00? He’s been giving up runs all year, always at the worst times. Everyone says he has great stuff, but he sure isn’t using it properly, can’t locate it, or something.

    And yes, people do make mistakes. I just feel it’s time Madson kicked chairs for a different team. His apology doesn’t change the fact that he let down all the fans and let down his teammates. I could live with it if he were pitching well, but he isn’t.

  41. Ed R. Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:31 am

    I agree with Chuck…Dom Brown can not and should not be viewed at as a savior…doing so will only load up unfair expectations and pressure on a guy who doesn’t deserve it.

    Secondly, Werth was never coming back here, if we can get anything for him I consider it a plus…and if we have to trade him to get prospects to flip so we can get a starter then I am all the more for that.

    Of course this does not change the fact that we still don’t have a real leadoff hitter…J-Roll and Vic both blow as lead off hitters and our already lefty heavy line up just got more left heavy. Boy is that extra year for Ibanez as predicted totally going to kill this team next year.

  42. Morris Buttermaker Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:33 am

    How do injuries to the infield and pitching staff cause the three starting outfielders to become invisible? Those three are not pulling their weight and that has hurt the team more than injuries have.

  43. NJ Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Everything affects everything, it’s team slumps aren’t just coincidence.

  44. Morris Buttermaker Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:50 am

    So is Polanco’s injury, Utley’s injury or Chooch’s concussion that causes Victorino and Werth to have constant brain farts on the base paths?

  45. NJ Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:51 am

    Remember we see the position, the players just see the guys next to them as their teammates and there hasn’t been much continuity this year…

  46. Chuck Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:53 am

    You’re gonna tell me that SUSTAINED injuries to Rollins, Utley and Polanco, Happ and Blanton takes a back seat to the performances of Werth, Victorino and Ibanez as far as hurting the team is concerned???

  47. NJ Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Morris remember the guys that have had success on this team have gone from seeing the guys their used to being in uniforms in hoodies, that’s going to have an effect.

  48. Morris Buttermaker Says:
    July 21st, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    I can’t wait to tell my boss that the reason I did a crappy job at work was because Marty was out sick. And I just can’t complete reports the same way when the guy who sits in the cubicle next to me is not there. I’ll just say, “Look, I am used to having Marty sit next to me in his suit and tie. But today, well, today, he is home sick with an upset stomach and mud butt. He is in a bathrobe and watching Judge Judy. I just can’t do my job as well.” I am sure it will go swell.

    How do you tell is Blanton is injured? He falls apart in the 5th instead of the 6th?

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