Breaking News: Phillies Trade Golson To Texas – Phillies Nation

Breaking News: Phillies Trade Golson To Texas

The Phillies traded outfield prospect Greg Golson to Texas for outfielder John Mayberry Jr.

Golson — the Phillies first-round pick in 2004 — hit .282 with 13 HR and 60 RBI for AA Reading last season. He went 0-for-6 in four games with the Phils in 2008, stealing a base and scoring two runs as a pinch runner.

Mayberry — the Rangers first-round pick in 2005 — hit .263 with 16 HR and 58 RBI for AAA Oklahoma City last season. He hit 20 total home runs in 2008 between Oklahoma City and AA Fresno. The right-handed hitter, 24, batted .351 with nine home runs and 23 RBI against left-handed pitching, too.


Ladies and gentlemen, we may have a replacement for Pat Burrell.

Talk about thinking outside the box. Mayberry was rated 17th-best Rangers prospect by the Oklahoman in April 2008. Just a few months ago, the Rangers Web site ranked him out of their top 20 prospects list. But John Sickels last November ranked Mayberry seventh. The explanation is a review of that selection:

7. John Mayberry Jr, OF, Grade B
.270/.322/.478 for Triple-A Oklahoma. Has all the tools, shows flashes of skills but still pretty raw.

Oh look, it’s Greg Golson! Actually, Mayberry is a shade better — his K/BB rates improved in Oklahoma City to 85/30. He’s 6’6″ and 230 pounds, comes with power and some speed, but nothing close to Golson in that regard. Think of him as a slower version of Golson, with potentially more pop. And he’s right-handed.

First, it’s sad to see Golson go, as he was such a huge part of the farm system for so long. But there wasn’t much room for Golson up top, plus, he seemed to be more of a project than originally thought. Regardless of what happens in left field, I don’t think Golson had a spot in the Phillies outfield anytime soon.

Now, back to my original comment. Yes, this is Burrell’s replacement. Maybe not in 2009, but for the future, very likely. Pat Gillick originally drafted him as a high school player in 1999, but he opted for college. He’s the kind of toolsy power hitter this franchise loves, and he seems to have a bit more power than Golson. It’s very possible Mayberry will platoon with Geoff Jenkins in the outfield, but it’s also possible he starts the year as a fifth outfielder, then takes over if he’s good enough. Or it’s possible he doesn’t do any of those things. To me, however, there’s a reason the Phils dumped one toolsy power-hitting outfielder for another. They like Mayberry, and want to give him a shot in the outfield.

Right now I’m favorable of the trade, but it’s basically a wash.



  1. Josh

    November 20, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    Can’t find anything about this guy, who is he? A prospect in the Texas system?

  2. D

    November 20, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    interesting move. looks like they are trading for an older, but more polished version of golson. i don’t dislike it. looks like he has a lot of tools.

    good insurance policy if they can’t sign burrell. and what a defensive upgrade in left.

  3. D

    November 20, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    here’s his deal. split time between AA and AAA. 2005 first are his 2008 numbers.. low obp. decent ops. don’t know if he’s ready. could be a good guy to start in AAA

    Minors .264 BA 20 HR 10 SB .317/.480/ .797

    looks like he played with micheal taylor at stanford.

  4. NJ

    November 20, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Drafted a year after Golson but a year older, the wrap seems to be this kid has raw power but will have everyone shaking their heads at everything between each long ball.

    Aparently Amaro has said he prefers Mayberry’s power to Golson’s speed (despite Golson’s power ceiling being virtually the same)… Sorry to be rude here but this deal wreaks of trying to pull something out of your ass and just finding sh*t. Will we just take any player that swings for the fences just to look all macho while the Mets are flashing their chequebook… Can someone find a redeeming quality in this?

  5. Tim Malcolm

    November 20, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    Horrendous OBP and SLG splits in OK City, but he started hot there. He’ll compete for LF if Burrell is gone, and will be looked at to take over on the roster at some point.

    He was added to the 40-man.

  6. Frank

    November 20, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    I like the deal and i dont like the deal………..we need some speed off the bench but idk…Does anyone think this could have anything to do with dumping salary?

  7. mikemike

    November 20, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    NJ Mayberry will play at minimum in platoon with jenkins 8.6 million compared to burrell 14. advantage phillies owners.

  8. Htrain

    November 20, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    Did you call this? Hell yes. You said Golson would be either in the minors, majors, or traded this year. That’s really narrowing it down. Good stuff.

  9. mikemike

    November 20, 2008 at 8:41 pm

    The phillies dumping salary where did you get that. They are the gold standard oh I am sorry that is Jeff Laurie line .

  10. Tim Malcolm

    November 20, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    Haha true. But I didn’t write trades for everyone. Golson (and I think Carpenter) were the only ones I predicted as trading chips.

  11. Frank

    November 20, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    The whole salary thing was a joke………..I think the Phills are gona sign Ibanez anyway ill call that 2 years 21 million with a team option for a third year for 9.5 million

  12. Htrain

    November 20, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    Alright, good looks. I’m not hating, you do good stuff but I had to call out the shameless self-promotion.

  13. NJ

    November 20, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    I’m really surprised by this trade, I really hope Amaro’s going to be a new age GM with vision and an almost cut-throat intellegence but I’m worried this is the same story over again. We make Golson ‘unavailable’ at the deadline and then stamp the reject sign on him later, this deal is a reach. It’s not bold or shrewed it’s a reach and we’ll sit on this guy until we dump him for pocket change. So thats Valent, Byrd, Robertson, Bourn, Golson and not one has been deemed to be good enough (and we got lucky in the Lidge deal that Wade was reaching). I read a comment on the mlbtraderumors post and a guy commented he say Mayberry hit two home runs in a game, I’m sure we’ll see some of those but what about the rest?

    Very disappointed, I wasn’t expecting a big bat in a headline grabbing deal but I don’t seeing us flood the roster with guys who have ‘I’ll spend much of the year pressing” tagged all over them. Where’s the gritty, hard-nosed guys like Romero?

  14. NJ

    November 20, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    ^don’t like seeing us flood the roster…

  15. Tim Malcolm

    November 20, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    You’re right — I took it off. I’m not about that stuff.

  16. NJ

    November 20, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    Tim your entitled to toot your own horn on here the amount you put it. Hope optimism pays off in this deal because it’s eerily familiar.

  17. Htrain

    November 20, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Tim, you’re integrity will not go unnoticed. Thanks for all the great info and keep up the good work.

  18. Tom G

    November 20, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    I like the move…IF they use him in a Platoon from day one. If they send him to the PIGS, then NO…
    I would like them to invest some Major’s time on a young guy this season, and with his good numbers in the minors, his time is now. I was hoping Golson got this role, but since we traded for a slightly advanced version of the same player, more or less, give him a shot.
    WE have the advantage of using the April games to view Donald possibly…until Utley comes back, or using Uguchi…developing some talent early in the season will help down the stretch…via maturity or trade bait…Carasco, Happ or Bastardo need to get some time too…develop your future now with the balance of the vets, will pay long term dividends as it did with the 80 phils…you then have option of trades for sound vets…to upgrade for playoffs…time will tell, but like the move as of now

  19. Jason B

    November 20, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    I don’t know that this trade makes us any better in 09 but could have implications for the ’10 season. What it looks like now is we may have a right handed hitter off the bench with a littl bit of pop. That being said, after looking at dudes numbers, he doesn’t seem ready to be an everyday guy, which means Jenkins will probably get a majority of the starts in LF. Hopefully they still go out and get a guy for next year that is more suitable to platoon with Jenks.

  20. Tom G

    November 20, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    forgot to mention, like his extra base hit numbers…shows something signifcant here…like the corners to be able to not only hit for power but also double numbers…

  21. Jim D.

    November 20, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    What kind of speed does this guy poses?

  22. Jason Parks

    November 20, 2008 at 9:59 pm

  23. harry

    November 20, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    i like this trade. berry is your speed off the bench, so no need for golson there. mayberry is right-handed and mashes lefties. he also has less strike-outs then golson, walks more and plays 1b/lf/rf with good d.

  24. Durbinator

    November 20, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    I don’t really see the point of this trade, it looks like a lateral move. That said, I was never really high on Golson. He didn’t impress in his short stint in the bigs but he didn’t play much either. Rangers fans seemed to like Mayberry and the Rangers have traded away a lot of good young players in recent years (John Danks, Edison Volquez, Adrian Gonzalez, and Chris Young) so I think this deal is slightly in our favor. However realistically I think both players won’t be much more than 4th outfielders. It will be interesting to see what happens.

  25. Durbinator

    November 20, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    Also Mayberry’s father played in the Majors and that is usually a good sign.

  26. Griffin

    November 20, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    thanks for the link, Jason Parks.
    I was never a big Golson fan, and I hope Mayberry will take So Taguchi’s roster spot instead of Pat Burrell’s roster spot.

  27. Sam

    November 20, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    I would not be surprised if we just got half a platoon.

    He hits lefties really well, and has some great power.

    So it looks like we have a mosh pit in left right now?

  28. NJ

    November 20, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    Were surely not just handing a roster spot to a guy who couldn’t even get in the mix in Texas. Amaro must be working on something more but this seems like a pretty weak trade since this guy has less value than Golson if we want to flip him in another deal down the road.

    right now were still looking at werth in left and jenkins/stairs in right.

  29. Tools of Ignorance

    November 20, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    Okay, I kind of understand this trade. They’re getting a righty at the plate. Someone will just okay speed, but can hit for power, and isn’t too bad defensively as well….I see the trade-offs there from Golson. If he is ready to play in the show, even in a limited roll, then this may be a decent trade since it seems he is more polished than Golson at this point. However, if he is not, and spends a lot of time in the minor leagues, then this may be a wash of a trade depending on how certain other players pan out during this offseason.

    My only question is this:
    The Phillies seemed to be holding onto Golson, but I had a feeling that they would be trading him at some point.
    But did anyone else feel that they would hang onto him, and were hanging onto Golson as trade bait, to include him in a package with other players to possibly land a bigger name or more experienced player?

  30. J cole

    November 21, 2008 at 1:48 am

    I see this as a minor upgrade. I just didn’t care for Golson. He reminded me entirely too much of Bourne, I’ve said it before. I really think this Mayberry cat could work out. But we won’t know until he is there. Oh well.

  31. Memphis

    November 21, 2008 at 1:53 am

    Sounds like a deal for a guy who is a little closer to the bigs than Golson. I think he could figure in the mix for an outfield platoon or a righty off the bench. Rotoworld calls him “less of a longshot” than Golson, for what that’s worth. Big, lanky dude, reminds me a little of Dave Winfield. Still sounds pretty raw. If he becomes a regular contributor in ’09, it would be a surprise. Hope he has a quick bat, not a long loopy swing.

  32. J-Man

    November 21, 2008 at 2:23 am

    This isn’t a bad trade because i never seen Golson coming up onto the Phils roster anytime soon and his hitting is horrible and he strikesout just as much as Ryan Howard…Watch him turn into a good hitter with Texas because they got the best hitting coach in baseball.

  33. Phillies Phan SC

    November 21, 2008 at 4:53 am

    I was one who backed Golson, but I welcome the trade. I still believe Golson has a lot of quality, but agree with many that he may not be ready fully to replace Burrell. I THINK I saw this kid play one time somewhere as I remember the name. If he is who I remember he has potential. Either way – even if it not the same person, his number show his potential.

    J-Man – As you said, Golson will become a decent hitter. I still think Golson will be a good player. Perhaps not great, but dangerous on the base pads if they can get him on base. They can try the Willie Mays hayes from “Major League” 100 pushups for ever ball ht in the air. if he keeps it on the gound without striking out, Golson will be feared.

  34. Phillies Phan SC

    November 21, 2008 at 4:56 am

    Gosh – I was unclear in my last post because I posted here first thing. Let me repost this below with what I INTENDED to mean. I need to proof read.

    I was one who backed Golson, but I welcome the trade. I still believe Golson has a lot of quality, but agree with many that he may not be ready fully to replace Burrell.

    I THINK I saw this kid MAYBERRY play one time somewhere – as I remember the name. If he is whom I remember, he has potential. Either way – even if it not the same person, his number show his potential.

    J-Man – As you said, Golson will become a decent hitter. I still think Golson will be a good player. Perhaps not great, but dangerous on the base pads if they can get him on base. They can try the Willie Mays Hayes from “Major League” 100 pushups for every ball hit in the air. If he keeps it on the ground without striking out, Golson will be feared.

  35. mikemike

    November 21, 2008 at 7:55 am

    This is a great trade if Amaro can sell mayberry as a platoon player in left. It saves them 14 million in left and if they put donald at third and trade felix another 3 million so now if they give howard 14 million and werth and vic 5 each then they are only raising there starting payroll with raise to utley to 1 million more of salary. This will allow the owners more profit. and that is there bottom line.

  36. Chuck P

    November 21, 2008 at 9:00 am

    Mayberry, Vic and Werth… get used to it. This is a sign that they are committed to Vic for the long-term. Why would they keep Golson if Vic is their CF of the future? They are thinking that they can groom Mayberry to be their everyday LF and I’m ok with that but this year is going to be a struggle… especially if this signifies that Mayberry is going to be in the mix for a LF platoon. Dobbs is not in that mix anymore (if he was going to play LF, I would imagine that they would want him to practice the position but with Feliz hurt, I don’t know if they can do that)… we can’t rely with a Stairs/Jenkins platoon (combined age would be like 115 years old). I think that they weren’t sure what they were going to do with Vic (I’m telling you, it’s going to cost $7 million per to lock him up for any extended period of time and if they believe that he’s their guy they need to lock him up now…). In the end, we could have gotten better value trading Golson last year. It’s not a bad trade but if the name of the game is maximizing value, we didn’t get a very good grade with Golson.

    We need to give our young players a shot earlier in their careers… and we need to give them REAL shots (not 6 AB’s, which is what Golson got and everyone formed their opinions based upon). I hope that all of this offseason stuff opens the door for some of our kids to shine.

  37. NJ

    November 21, 2008 at 9:53 am

    We have to draft the kind of guys that can handle coming up earlier and it looks like were starting to but still too many high round fliers. I’d like this trade if I thought we were brining in the right kind of guy and no offense to Mayberry but there’s clearly a reason Texas were ready to part with him as he looks like the definition of a one dimensional player. I wouldn’t have minded us dumping Golson for a guy with lesser tools but who’d come in and play hard. We can have all the talent we like but unless we bring in more guys who can just flat out play ball like Taylor and Stutes instead of the toolsy guys (who’s ceiling may be high but need an unmatched amount of grooming) we’ll keep repeating the same mistakes and I’m concerned Mayberry who’s considered to have struggled in his minor league career already is just fanning the flames.

    Looks like Mayberry’s been assigned to Leigh Valley which is the right move, we just have to hope this kid hits the ground running.

  38. Eb

    November 21, 2008 at 9:59 am

    I agree that this move seems lateral instead of Up.

    However I think this trade is above average and I dont think Golson was going to be e anything but Michael Borne

  39. Don M

    November 21, 2008 at 10:03 am

    I just started reading down this post, and only got half way before I had to comment.. why is it that so many people insist that a trade or a prospect would be better off if the guy is on the MLB roster in a platoon situation, then if he were playing everyday and developing at AAA?

    Not to call anyone specific out, but someone said that if they Platoon him from day one, then he likes the trade.. if they start him at LehighValley, then he doesn’t like the trade..

    I just don’t get that thought process, Golson was going to start the year in the minors too, so its not like you are losing a player there. Maybe they feel that Golson was always going to strikeout too much and would always hit in the bottom of the lineup? Maybe this guy isn’t as fast, but has potential to be a #5 hitter?? who knows

  40. Dan C.

    November 21, 2008 at 10:09 am

    I still think Burrell’s long term replacement is Michael Taylor.

  41. Don M

    November 21, 2008 at 10:14 am

    Victorino should get 4-5 years.. The sooner you sign him, the cheaper you can get him too, right now he’d be available for a 24/4 deal.. if you wait until next year if will be like 30/4

    Werth could be had for 15/3 I think..

    THat is why you can’t pay Burrell close to $15 M again, because you can’t afford an outfield that makes $25 M of a $100 Million payroll

  42. NJ

    November 21, 2008 at 10:23 am

    We have to start this guy in the minors, he’s going to have to show more than home-run power to warrant a call-up since that OBP is dreadful. We’d be very well served to get a core of young bluechips together in AAA and find stop gaps (which we mostly already have) to get the group up developed in a wave to extend the window of opportunity. With the injury situation though we have to get Donald up right now though with the intention of him playing unless the plan is to deal him by ST.

    For the Rangers I guess Golson means Bradleys not returning.

  43. Don M

    November 21, 2008 at 10:34 am

    I really think Golson is going to be a decent player.. chance to be a 20/20 guy as he gets older and stronger.. he already plays great defense, and I think he’ll be a good player, maybe make an All-Star appearance or two..

    I don’t know ANYTHING about this guy Mayberry, but he went to Stanford, which means he’s smart, his dad played in the Majors, which means he’s got natural talent in his blood, he’s a HUGE guy, which means he too should develop more power, and he’s coming along at the right pace, maybe making the Majors around age 25.. lets see what we have.. and this buys the younger OFs some extra time in the minors for them to develop

  44. joe

    November 21, 2008 at 10:40 am

    This trade does nothing for me either way. i would’ve liked to see Golson in some kind of package deal for a better player, but not sure how much value he had. We have to go all in while we have Howard on the squad. We’ll get lots of chips later when we trade him before he becomes a FA.

  45. Don M

    November 21, 2008 at 11:03 am

    When you trade a guy like Howard.. you would probably trade him at the deadline, 1.5 years before he would become a FA. You would look to get a AAA-pitcher, and probably 2 prospects in AA…

    When you trade a star like him, you have to make sure you get players you KNOW will make the big leagues, not just players you HOPE will make it

  46. KM

    November 21, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Don’t quite get this deal. I liked Golson, and I truly hope he doesn’t end up being a star in the American League if we have a dud here.

  47. NJ

    November 21, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    I still don’t get why we didn’t sell high on Golson earlier in the year with the minor league season almost over, the Gillick/Amaro must have known then he wasn’t going to feature into their plans. The Rangers are selling low on Mayberry and it looks like we’ve been caught napping since we’re selling low too only really a handful of games later.

  48. ryan

    November 21, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    don’t like the move. this team is loaded with power. i prefer speed.

  49. Don M

    November 21, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    I dont understand how its selling-low on Golson after we thought enough of him to give him a September callup, use him late in important games, and let him hang around the club during the playoffs..

    We are getting another young outfielder in return, one that can play either corner OF spot.. and has power in his bat..

    I like Golson a lot, but I can’t agree with saying that we sold-low on him, or could have gotten more..

  50. TheDipsy

    November 21, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Everyone. Golston can’t hit a curveball. Get it. At his level of maturity, you can either hit a breaking ball….or you can’t. You don’t see any starting outfielders in the Majors that can’t hit a curve.

  51. Eb

    November 21, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    TheDipsy…See Geoff Jenkins

  52. Evrybuddy Hits woohoo

    November 21, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Although Golson was here for a very short time, he did not impress me. He was skittish on defense, not impressive on the basepaths and struck out a bit. His value would have been a 4ht or 5th outfielder with us so the fact that we traded him for a potential starter is a good thing. Worse comes to worse and Mayberry fizzles, we lose out on a Michale Bourne type who strike out alot.

  53. Don M

    November 21, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    People forget that Michael Bourn lost a year of development too when he was sitting on our bench, limited to pinch-running duties.

    Golson, with another year of minor league development, will be pretty good

    AND… Geoff Jenkins doesn’t start

  54. MikeB

    November 22, 2008 at 1:10 am

    I don’t know about this trade. I can kind of see what people are saying in making Marlon Byrd comparisons, especially because Ruben was always Fast Eddie Wade’s right hand man and that’s how I’ll always think of him (unless he builds a championship team himself, in which case that association will promptly be forgotten). But then again, as long as it isn’t a step backwards, okay. I don’t know.

    At this point, I don’t have a clue because on one hand, this may be an upgrade in terms of power down the road, but on the other hand, we kind of need power NOW because we’ve got a void in the middle of our lineup now with Utley being hurt because his minimum recovery time would take until the end of spring training, so who knows how long it would take for him to get back into the swing of things (no pun intended). He might not be really back into baseball shape until June, even if he does start on opening day.

    But who’s going to play right field? Mayberry? Maybe later, but we need someone now. The thing is, every power outfielder is a greater risk than reward. Ibanez is a) 36 and b) left-handed, which would give us THREE left-handed corner outfielders. Milton Bradley is only 30, but he has anger issues AND he tore his ACL in September 2007 when he was with the Padres. He missed over 30 games, and he only played 20 in the outfield – who knows how his knees would hold up over the course of the season?

    And just because he couldn’t break into Texas’ outfield doesn’t mean he isn’t any good. They’ve got Josh Hamilton and some other good players…and by the way, did anyone else see that Marlon Byrd plays for the Rangers now…and hit .298 with 10 HR, 53 RBI, and slugged .462? Over 122 games. Figures that would happen.

  55. MikeB

    November 22, 2008 at 1:29 am

    Oh when I said “just because he couldn’t break into Texas’ outfield doesn’t mean he isn’t any good,” I was referring to Mayberry.

  56. The Dipsy

    November 22, 2008 at 10:33 am

    We’re lacking power? My projections for homers per player: Rollins 17, Werth 15, Utley 25, Howard 45, Dobbs/Feliz 20, Jenkins/Mayberry 20, Victorino 10, Ruiz 5.

    Thats not a team lacking power.

  57. MikeB

    November 22, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    I’m talking about a lineup that could be without Chase Utley. Our power numbers are fine with him, but if we’re without him, we’re in trouble. Even if he does make it back by spring training, he could take time to get his swing back.

  58. NJ

    November 22, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    This is the problem with the Phils, on offense the criteria is load up on power and speed but it’s not that simple and the Phils don’t rack up as highly as where you’d like them to with intagables. Most of the time we feel like we’re just waiting to the other shoe to drop, shaking our heads when the bats fall short swinging for the fences and can’t shorten up and deliver the timely hit on a consistent basis.

    (Outside of Utley) in the big money games, teams weren’t respecting the Phils power bats because they knew how streaky the team was and the Phils often became predictable on the basepaths which diminished the effectiveness in the running game at times. You add more speed or power and your just adding more frustration, more escapes for the opposing pitcher when it should have been a crooked inning. We add a couple of guys with less ability but the right intagables and we’ll breed a fire into this team no-one’s really seen before and then the power will be deadly. The Phils are so tuned to being explosive and making the opposing team fear the longball they often struggle to just have good ABs. There was bitching and moaning when we let Rowand go because of the veteran leadership, yet we still want more speed and more power when there’s plenty to go around if the bats don’t force themselves into such prolonged slumps trying to find that power that’s always talked about. What I like about Donald is this guy sounds like he has intangables, hustle, knows how to get his average up by doing 1 thing right when everything else is going wrong and we need more of that, can that be said for Howard who’s meant to be the core of the power? Can that be said for Utley, yes because when he’s not getting extra-base hits most of the time he’ll find some way to impact the game. Pedroia won the MVP because he did that and all withouth ‘power’ because wherever he was put whatever the resulthe adjusted to what he needed to do in that situation instead of trying to go long.

    Some how the Phils battled through to be World Champions in an overall poor season playing poorly overall in the world series, fill the vacant spots with guys with some fight and then we’ll have a team you can never bet against. Is Mayberry the guy? I don’t know but from now he’s our guy and I just hope he’s surrounded with players that say how can you help the team right now, not click you heels three times and swing for the fences.

    Power means nothing without purpose.

  59. The Dipsy

    November 22, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    Ah yes. “Power without purpose”. Love that NJ. We have a lot of chiefs in our lineup but not enough indians. Guys that Billy Beane used to like. The guys with the .400 on base pct. that could move a runner when he had to. Lets remember that when you go to the plate you don’t have to get a hit. The object is to not make an out. Then the rest takes care of itself. Station to station..lots of walks…hitting to the right side….sac flies. We didn’t do these things during the season. But we did more of it in the post season and that was a big reason why we won in spite of our pedestrian hitting.

  60. NJ

    November 22, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    Power can become a negative because with those swings even average pitcher with a decent scouting report can pick away power bats like Ryan Howard’s or Feliz’s because their up there hacking hoping they get lucky. I love watching Utley take a pitch, you can see he’s looking the ball in no matter the speed and making the adjustment in his head. If a pitchers attacking Howard like was the case most of the year there pitching him backwards because they know 9/10 times he’s going to get himself out but putting himself in a hole by not actually seeing what the guys throwing and a lot of the time those are pitches even a light hitting utiliy guy could take downtown. If it’s power we want we should be dealing for Craig Monroe but he’s proof as any that power means nothing unless you use the fundemtals at the plate to use your tools. The thing with the OBP guys is 9/10 of them that make it have the intagables to play this game even on their worst day.

    As I said I hope Mayberry has the right guys around him to make him into a ballplayer not just a fastball or hanging breaking ball slugger.

  61. Mike

    November 23, 2008 at 12:03 am

    You raise good points, NJ. But with Utley down, what do we do? Because Utley won’t be ready until June – even if he makes it back by Spring Training, who knows how long it will take for him to get his swing back if he hasn’t been working out. When you go into a rehabilitation program, you generally have to adopt a new regimen; in Utley’s case that program might not agree with his normal off-season routine. I don’t see him having a good season this year, and we need to replace his RBIs. I was mistaken in believing power to be the only source of his RBIs, since many times it seems like that’s how the rest of the team is. It was a mistake to confuse “power” with “RBIs.” I’d be interested to see how many of his RBIs came from extra base hits, and how many from singles; I’d also like to see similar statistics on Howard and Burrell. Sadly, has no such statistics; I’d have to comb through game logs, and even then I couldn’t tell – a double down the line doesn’t involve the same swing as a double like Jenkins or Burrell had in Game 5.

    And is the problem with power confined to the Phillies? I do not know, but I don’t think so. Strikeouts have increased every year, as power numbers have leveled off. That’s in both leagues.

  62. Mike

    November 23, 2008 at 12:05 am

    By the way I posted as “MikeB” so as to avoid confusion. I forget to type “B” sometimes, so I’m keeping “Mike.”

  63. NJ

    November 23, 2008 at 10:12 am

    It’s not strikeouts so much as it is productive outs, or even if you go 0-4 making sure your seeing the ball better through each AB. The issue with power bats isn’t confined to the Phillies but when you think back to all of those frustrating nights where runners on base were stranded when the probability of a big inning was high, the bats were going up there and hacking at bad pitches and making bad outs no matter if it was an ace on the mound or a journeyman reliever. Naturally the power guys tend to eat up a lot of RBI’s where their hitting but the problem we have is the middle of our line-up is set with free-swinging power guys and I don’t know how much film these Phillies spend in the video room, but I’d guess it’s not a lot or not working.

    The reason the numbers are leveling off is because the fundementals are being excused when a guy has raw skills. You take Ryan Howard and he toned himself better physically this year but mos of his poor play this year was down to mental errors which takes all that power and uses it against him. Smart pitchers owned him most of the time because they clearly studied what they were up against and how to make him beat himself by making him swing for the fence on bad pitches, you don’t go under the mendoza line with no-body on yet wrack up the longballs in that situation which proves power hitting is sometimes no more effective than smallball. The reason guys like Pujols (and I hate to say but it’s true Manny) are so good is their not swinging for the fences, their looking for their pitch and rarely will they be outright fooled because they don’t give the opposing pitchers a book on their weaknesses.

    The numbers are leveling off because we hold guys like Ryan Howard up and say your an MVP instead of saying you had a great September, you could be a first ballot half of famer but unless you put more work in and become a scholar at hitting you’ll end up boucing around after that mega deal goes sour because everyone can already see your struggling through the majoriy of ABs. We critisize Howards defense which are almost always undisciplined errors yet he’s doing the same thing in most of his at bats swinging at bad pitches or getting fooled by room service fastballs when he’s not even in pitchers counts because he’s regressing as an all-around hitter. You look at Pujols and you see a future 1st ballot HOFer because you see a guy dedicated to sudying the game instead of trying coast on talent.

    (Might not be all the info your looking for but:

  64. metsrule

    November 23, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Finally we are getting it right, Today it is reported that Putz will be traded to us, cruz is going to be sign tomorrow. Ibanez is suppose to be in new york tomorrow to talk contract with his agent. and they are submitting a contract for lowe

  65. NJ

    November 23, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    The Mets aren’t getting it right they just buy. I cannot believe you have a crosstown rival who are the blueprint for how not to build a team yet the Mets continue to spend and spend surely nearing the point where they will overtake the Yankees in payroll. Minaya may be a very nice person but he’s an aweful GM with the dying mentality of a major bank waiting for his next cash injection.

  66. The Dipsy

    November 23, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    Yes, you may pay Lowe. But I bet he’ll make you go 5 years and he’ll be for shit the last 3. Why does this matter? Because thats what the mets do and it burns them. Stuck with washed up has beens like Pedro sucking their payroll dry while not giving them a return on their money. AND you’ll lose a draft pick. How’s the Scott Kazmir deal lookin for ya? Who did you get back for him again? I forget…honestly.

  67. Mike

    November 24, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Ibanez? Putz? Lowe? The Mets will not win it until they sign some consistent, veteran character guys to guide the young core players in that clubhouse. Because let’s be honest, their collapses started after Julio Franco retired, and that man was a professional in every sense of the word.

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