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Lidge Loses Control; Phillies Streak Snapped at Four

When the Phillies started their title defense, the more reasonable fan predicted that although Brad Lidge had a season for the ages in 2008, the perfection would likely end, and we as fans could look forward to a blown save throughout the season. Or two. Maybe three. At most four, but absolutely no more than four, right?

Starting pitcher Cole Hamels finally had put the pieces together to pitch a decent game. Despite a third inning mistake to the Braves catcher Brian McCann, Hamels soared through six innings, allowing just two runs. McCann’s two-run shot was the only damage allowed by Hamels who allowed just three hits.

Hamels wasn’t dominant, but he was effective. He struck out only two and walked four, but his ability to work out of jams was refreshing. The Hamels we have become accustomed to would have folded under the pressure of frustration. This game was different.

Hamels pitched well enough to win, and despite his season long infection of lack-of-run-support-itis, when he exited the game, he had a 3-2 lead.

The Phillies offense had plenty of wasted opportunities. Overall, they were 1-12 at the plate with runners in scoring position but only left six on base. The Phillies twice left runners stranded at third base that reached third with no outs.

Despite their woes at the plate, they managed seven hits off of Braves starter, Kenshin Kawakami, including triples from Shane Victorino and Pedro Feliz.

In the seventh, Jayson Werth gave the Phillies the advantage when he belted his 24th long ball of the season to left-center.  The Phillies looked as if they may be on the way to winning their second consecutive series.

The Braves bullpen came in with one-out in the seventh and proceeded to shut the Phillies line-up down, allowing  just two walks in 2.2 innings of work. The Phillies middle-relief wasn’t bad either, allowing just two base-runners in the seventh and eighth innings.

Into the ninth the Phillies went clutching a 3-2 lead. Fans watching across the Delaware Valley were clutching their chests as Brad Lidge entered the game and promptly surrendered a lead-off single. To be fair Chase Utley should have been able to make a play on the ball, but watched the ball scoot under his glove as he was playing deep in the over-shift position.

What happened next caused fans to clutch their stomachs.

With Garret Anderson on first-base, Atlanta’s Matt Diaz layed down what was a routine sacrifice bunt. Overly anxious to make the play, Lidge failed to field the ball cleanly and then proceeded to air-mail a throw to first in which he had no play on. Anderson scored and Diaz went to third as Lidge earned himself not only the blown save, but two errors as well.

With no one out and a runner at third base, Lidge walked the next two batters, one intentionally. He then got Ryan Church to strikeout swinging, leaving him just a double-play away from reaching extra-innings.

With one out and the infield playing up to prevent the run from scoring, Omar Infante singled through the hole at short, past a diving Jimmy Rollins and the Braves completed the come back.

It was Lidge’s eighth blown save and his fifth loss of the season, wasting what was a quality outing from starter Cole Hamels and the opportunity to bury the Braves a little deeper in the division race.

The Phillies will try to get the series win tomorrow in the rubber match.

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0 Comments

  1. Mikey Mike

    August 15, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Blah I’m really tired of all the Brad Lidge drama…
    I was furious with the offense today, Lidge was just icing on the cake.
    Runner on 3rd no outs should be a run, always, period.

  2. winks tiddley

    August 15, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    The Phils should talk to John Smoltz. It can’t hurt and he has been a big game pitcher for a while. Lidge needs to collect himself. Smoltz has something to prove and another world championship would really immortalize him if he can contribute to the Phils

  3. dodger fan

    August 15, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Admittedly, I haven’t been following the Phil closely this season. So can someone explain to me how a major league closer gets an era over 7 with 43 ip by August? Is he the owner’s son? Is he dating the gm’s daughter? How in the world do you fans put up with this?

  4. jeff of nova

    August 15, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    Not sure of an answer to lidges problems but it needs to be look at as a more pressing need and a backup solution needs to be put together. Maybe myers maybe not but it needs to be addressed

  5. Jeff Y.

    August 15, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Brad Lidge blows. Demote him now!!!!

  6. Brett

    August 15, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    I can’t imagine anyone being worse than Lidge right now. I have always said he just needs to work through it, but at this point, it’s time to bring in someone who can get it done. I don’t care if it’s park, or Walker, or if they bring up some minor leaguer, but eight blown saves is ridiculous. This has gone too far.

  7. mg52

    August 15, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    One thing to keep in mind is that all but one of Lidge’s blown saves have come on the road. Maybe he gets more adrenaline out of being in Citizens Bank Park. Regardless, a closer has to be able to secure most wins wherever he is called upon. Another thing is that the number of losses he has is equally suspect. It shows that not only is he responsible for surrendering leads, but for giving them to opposing teams to end games. Charlie seemingly will never select another closer; that’s why we have to keep insisting that someone else intervene. We just can’t see this same old story carry on.

  8. mg52

    August 15, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    And he has no wins, either. Not much of a silver lining in any of this. It may sound silly, but I feel bad for Lidge’s wife and children – the father/husband is a nice guy but he’s been responsible for so many losses lately. Charlie better get with the program; his rigidness is impacting a lot of people now.

  9. badburn

    August 15, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    The time has come for the Phillies brain trust to give up the notion that Brad Lidge is going to pitch his way out of this funk.

    On the radio today, they were saying how good Lidge felt after his last save. Feeling good versus being good, there is a difference.

    Obviously, not Jamie Moyer.

    I know he’s on the DL, but can Romero close?

    As demonstrated earlier this season, Ryan Madson can’t, but he’s a great set up man. I don’t understand why, but it took him time in going from the closer role to back to set-up man. Don’t mess with the status quo on this front.

    Scott Eyre? Lefty specialist, but probably can’t close.

    Can Park close? Again, he’s been really good getting through the 6th and 7th. Wouldn’t rock the karma.

    Durbin? He did get a save in an extra inning game didn’t he? Probably not.

    Moyer? Obviously, not.

    Myers after coming off the DL? Possible.

    Tood Walker? He one had twenty-plus save in the Bigs. He’s pitching better. Surprisingly enough, this might be the call.

    Bring Mitch Williams out of retirement. Anybody but Lidge right now.

  10. T Marty

    August 15, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Dvr’d the game while i worked, just finished and that’s it, if Lidge comes in again i have to turn it off, my heart is pounding crazy, my wife was worrying, i have to stop watching when he comes in, (i was a mess last night), Charlie ain’t changin’ his mind, and Lidge is going to lead us outta playoff contention.

  11. ChitownStu

    August 15, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    Imagine…all this pontification about Lidge from arm chair quarterbacks (sorry, mixmetaphors) and here’s the thing – STILL IN 1st PLACE DESPITE his woes. He was fragile in Houston, had an amazing year last year and is now back down to earth. The ONE thing someone mentioned on here – Smoltz in bullpen, is the ONLY thing that is even remotely close to a good idea.

    Yes a closer is important, but so is having faith, as Manuel does…

    PS – they do sell tums @ Wawa and CVS.
    PPS – and to talk about Lidge’s family is about as classy as…please.

  12. george

    August 15, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    the phils need to do something about lidge already they’ve reached the lowest of the low he’s already matched his career high in blown saves with 8 and if they continue to put him out there he’ll likely break the single season record with the way he’s pitching…i’m not ready to complety give on lidge and release him or get rid of him,but he needs to go to the minors or DL for the rest of the season and work out what ever his problem is…cholly too stubborn to pull lidge from the closer role and thinks throwing the guy out there just gonna make him better when he seems to be getting worse,it’s gonna talk ruben amaro to step in and tell cholly enough is enough.

  13. Chase Mutley

    August 15, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    “So can someone explain to me how a major league closer gets an era over 7 with 43 ip by August? Is he the owner’s son? Is he dating the gm’s daughter? How in the world do you fans put up with this?”

    Going 48 for 48 in save opportunities on the way to giving the franchise a World Series Championship not good enough of a reason? I mean, no one’s really thrilled, but Lidge bought himself the benefit of the doubt with last year’s performance both with management and the fans. It’s kind of a silly question to try and bait a comment forum with, especially when a number of those post-season saves came against, well, you know.

  14. Scott

    August 15, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    It is 2007 all over again, but instead of Charlie’s blind allegiance to Gordon killing us, it is his blind allegiance to Lidge. I’ll be forever grateful to the man for what he did for the team in 2008, but the Brad Lidge Experiment has got to end. When he is on the mound, you get the feeling that his mind is back in 2005, with Pujols rounding the bases…

  15. Jeff

    August 15, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    This was a heart breaking lose tonight. I had a hard team eating my ribs at Ruby Tuesdays. We could of buried this pain in the ass team. The offense again left runners in scoring postion. Brad Lidge is just plain aweful. I know Madson was not great but I would try one more time with him. Pedro would be perfect for that role. Bring in Smoltz and give him a shot. Might work. We needed this win. The pain.

  16. j reed

    August 15, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    Chase Mutley – Problem is Moyer (who I don’t mind being demoted). Doesn’t he deserve the benefit of the doubt with his performance last year. Granted his post season wasn’t stellar but without him, esp. when Myers went down to the minors, I don’t see us making it last year either.
    The problem I see with Lidge and this applies to other Phillies pitchers(perhaps to other MLB teams) is we don’t have the acumen to fix them…that is if your problem involves mechanics which I think is Lidge is struggling with or you need to develop an off speed pitch we need to kidnap Dave Duncan, or the pitching coach from one of those teams that craps out decent pitchers at will like A’s, Twins, Dodgers, Angels. Last year we sent Myers down and he improved eventhough I think much of his problems were related to his hip since in a non contact support, damaging the labrum of the hip (one of body’s most stable joint) takes many months of chronic over use. Point is if a pitcher can’t fix themselves or learn on their own you’ll be dismissed as a headcase or even worse and more insipid, be accused of lacking heart. While such mental and emotional shortcomings are legit causes, psychology has become, more often than not, the convienent scapegoat for the questionable coaching of the pitching staff which I and others discussed towards the end of today’s in-game post.

  17. CDE

    August 15, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    It’s the *sshole manager’s fault. He knows Lidge sucks, but he puts him in there to lose the game anyway. If I were the other players I’d be pissed.

  18. Repeat!

    August 15, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Brade Lidge Says: Ribs from Ruby Tuesdays make me poop. Yayyyyyy

  19. Repeat!

    August 15, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    Lidge:I pooped in your pool. The water was warm. Yayyyyy……..

  20. kreiderr

    August 15, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    Did you guys miss Utley blowing the groundball to start the inning? Don’t you guys think that whole inning is different if Lidge gets that first out? And if our offense didn’t stink, the score should have been at least 5-2 in the 9th.

  21. Bruce

    August 16, 2009 at 12:02 am

    While everyone focused on Lidge for blowing another save, what is lost in all the criticisms is the team’s pathetic effort with RISP. 1 for 12 tonight including stranding a runner on third in the fifth, seventh and eighth innings…all with less than 2 outs. If the Phillies hitters executed in the clutch in these situations, those insurance runs may be the difference between a win and a blown save. Unfortunately it’s been the team’s weakness in situational hitting for so long. Situational hitting is foreign to the team as they obviously rely on the long ball such as today with 7 extra base hits (3 doubles, 2 triples and 1 HR). But because they couldn’t play “smallball”, they still lost.

  22. BRIPRUITT

    August 16, 2009 at 12:09 am

    I understand Lidge has less than average this season but our offense has not been up to par either. We had several players in scoring position with less than 2 outs and could not capitalize that will always come back to haunt a team.

  23. Geoff

    August 16, 2009 at 12:14 am

    This isn’t personal. I don’t hate Lidge. I hope he’s back in good form next season.

    It’s almost Labor Day. We have one and a half months left in the season. He’s not working through whatever the issue is.

    If he’s our closer in the playoffs, we’re going nowhere.

  24. BS

    August 16, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Regardless of the offense, a lead is a lead. We can’t give Lidge a 2-3 run lead every time he pitches just because we know he’s going to give up a run. I’ve supported Lidge all year long, but it’s time we explored some different options. Go check out Smoltz. Give Madson another shot. Ask Lidge to go to the DL and “rehab” down in the minors, or drop him into middle relief. But something is not right.

  25. PGD

    August 16, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Lidge is going to cost the Phillies the division if he keeps this crap up

  26. Mike D.

    August 16, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Why can’t we give the whole team a Jeltz? All those RISP left stranded, a blown save…really I think the whole team deserves a Jeltz.

  27. therookie300

    August 16, 2009 at 12:20 am

    Blame the offense for being good. That’s why they don’t play small ball. The lineup 1 through 7 can hit and pop one out also. Because of that they never sacrifice outs to move runners along.

  28. mg52

    August 16, 2009 at 12:27 am

    ChitownStu, I did not at all intend to intrude upon anyone’s family situation. If I accidentally did, I apologize. The only thing I meant to say was that, if I were the kid of a public figure like Lidge, I would feel sorry for my father, but I would not find much solace in how his bad luck has made everybody nervous. I also would not find much solace in the person putting my father into tense situations in the game when he does not have things going his way. To have an entire fanbase worried about one man’s performance would be a difficult thing for both the player and those around him to deal with. My recommendation is that Charlie and the brass take him out of it for a while and save everybody some aggravation – that’s all.
    Yes, the team is indeed still in first place. We are worried about Lidge because we don’t know that the team will stay in first place or, even if it does, that he will suddenly fix himself before the playoffs. The fact is, the division lead could be larger if it weren’t for the blown saves, and there have been too many of them for anyone to take a chance on Lidge as the closer for the rest of the season and into the playoffs. It doesn’t mean much yet that the Phils lead the NL East now – it matters instead that the lead will have held up when the last regular season game is played and that the postseason bullpen actually has some organization.
    What Lidge did to inspire us fans last year still rings true for us. That is why we don’t want his legacy irreparably tarnished by more outings like today.

  29. Repeat!

    August 16, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Yeah, we all know Chase should’ve had that one. And yes we realize the Phils left runs on the field all over the place. And yes we all know how important the Moon is to the planet Earth. And that one day the Moon will just float away and the planet Earth will basically be f@ucked! But more importantly, we realize that Chase makes that play 99/100, and that he hit a huge homer on Fri. Lidge:Garbage truck juice. He has eight blown saves. It could easily be 10. At Tor:Lidge got lucky. Fri:Lucky Sat:Blown Save. Lights out Lidge? I think not. How about Lucks-Run-Out Lidge. A 1 run lead is a one run lead. Period. Gotta get the save Lidge. No excuses. O has saved several potential Lidge app from happening this season.

  30. george

    August 16, 2009 at 12:54 am

    the offense leaving guys on is something that needs to be worked out too i mean does milt thompson need to be fired or something i don’t know but the leaving guys on 3rd with less then 2 outs needs to stop…but this loss still goes on lidge because they gave him the lead in the 9th and if he doesn’t that ability to close out 1 run games he shouldn’t be a closer…maybe cholly and ruben amaro should have a private meeting with lidge about working things out i mean i wonder if lidge has ever seen a sports phsycolgist since the pujols home run?

  31. Jeff

    August 16, 2009 at 12:54 am

    I agree Utley made a bad play but a closer should finish it. If we had the Yankees fortunes of a closer we would have 10 more wins. Lidge is aweful. As a fan and a team you hope you have a cushion for him. Thats not confident for a closer. This game was taken away from us again.

  32. Repeat!

    August 16, 2009 at 1:06 am

    Maybe Lidge needs Viagra. If that doesn’t help his confidence issues; then I don’t know what else will. Viva Viagra….

  33. Brian of CO

    August 16, 2009 at 1:22 am

    Doesnt matter if the offense should have scored more or not. Lidge was given the lead, and he blew it again. On some other boards people are trying to say (yesterday) that 7 blown saves wasnt bad and compare his 7 blown saves to the annoying punk K-Rod who has 5 blown saves. The difference between the two sadly is the number of successful saves. Did lidge higher the Mets bullpen coach as his personal pitching coach or something? He is horrendous this year. Sorry guys, but who is saying WHEN we get the playoffs and not IF. Uh, our lead keep shrinking, and come September when teams are desperately trying to make the playoffs for the first time in a few years (the braves and the Marlins) if Lidge continues on this horrific tear, we will pull a Mets. The NL East is NOT a lock as much as some of you think it is.

  34. Repeat!

    August 16, 2009 at 1:29 am

    teenage mutant ninja turtles……

  35. Brian of CO

    August 16, 2009 at 1:37 am

    Sense of humor is a good thing though. Thanks Repeat. Needed that.

  36. John Snowden

    August 16, 2009 at 1:38 am

    No I have to agree with Geoff here. I’ve seen it a few times and I just feel like reiterating it. Brad Lidge’s job is to get 3 outs whether we’re up by one run or more. Period. I could blame the offense, I could blame Chase Utley’s defense, OR I could blame the guy who has consistently left this team on the verge of disaster. The fact that he has the WORST era of all MLB relievers, and the most blown saves of any reliever clearly indicates to me anyway that if we to get to the post-season (which all signs seem to indicate) we will not be able to compete. We will not be able to hold smaller leads in the 9th. NOT going to happen.

    The fact is that anyone … if anyone can keep their era under 8. They’re doing better than lidge … regardless of whatever he did in 2008 (which was the most incredible season a closer could have) his 2008 season isn’t helping us now.

  37. John Snowden

    August 16, 2009 at 1:41 am

    I mean *knocks on wood* if we do get to the post season … is our plan really to score 345456575634 runs against the dodgers or giants? get to the series and score another 4354745233 against the yankees or red sox? maybe Mitch Williams told Lidge to blow the save to improve ratings on the Pen.

  38. Repeat!

    August 16, 2009 at 1:46 am

    Papa Smurf always knows best…..

  39. Repeat!

    August 16, 2009 at 1:48 am

    always….

  40. Brian of CO

    August 16, 2009 at 1:48 am

    To bad Charlie Manuel isnt more like Papa Smurf in this instance. LOL.

  41. damon2070@netscape.net

    August 16, 2009 at 2:04 am

    Charlie should let J-Roll bat 5th on Sun. That way if Rollins goes yard right after Howard does. HK: “That ball is outta here! Gap to Gap home runs by Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins.” It may be just me. But I always thought that Ozzie Smith looked like Papa Smurf. They’ve got the same glasses. And what ever happened to “Gazo” from the Flinstones? Do you think he’s still alive?

  42. Brian of CO

    August 16, 2009 at 2:11 am

    Here comes the curse believer in me. As I recall, last postseason there was a mini Ban Franklin put up somewhere higher than Ole Ben. Was that taken down?

  43. damon2070@netscape.net

    August 16, 2009 at 2:14 am

    I think Gazo is alive and well. He’s probably somewhere in Russia with Tupac smoking w**d as we speak.

  44. Repeat!

    August 16, 2009 at 2:16 am

    I just gave away my email address to everyone. I am the retard of the nite. Good nite.

  45. j reed

    August 16, 2009 at 3:22 am

    that’s the great gazo….

  46. Philsgirl

    August 16, 2009 at 4:40 am

    OK, paramedics just zapped my heart back (Lidge still sucks from the other side, guys), but in the ‘tween state I was told that Charlie Manuel will come back as a hot dog at CBP if he puts Brad in to close one more time. Come on, Charlie, today was really pivotal psychologically for the team and the town, and what the f#@*? Despite assurances from my supportive friends who were holding the 02 mask on my face at the start of the *bottom of the 9th*, my muffled insistances that we were about to lose were unfortunately – although almost unbelievably to them – correct. And there went one of the most *unnecessarily* heartbreaking losses in recent memory. Unnecessary because it could have been predicted and prevented.
    And while everyone’s observation about RISP, a statistic whose title we are obviously vying for, is valid, and the fact that our outstanding defense did make a couple bloopers (geez, we can’t catch *everything*?), the point is that the closer – namely Mr. Lidge – is paid millions (I think it’s 12 this year) for doing *only* that: CLOSING. Not hitting, fielding, running, catching, pitching more than one inning. Closing. No matter what the score.
    Charlie has no problem sitting out Rollins when he is “mentally” not in the game to his satisfaction. Pardon me, but I think it’s clear to everyone except C.M. that Lidge has been “mentally” elsewhere for more than a few too many games now. Or else he’s physically struggling, in which case this needs to be addressed ASAP. Is Charlie waiting to do for this season what he seems to do with way too many games – wait until we’re already losing – to make changes? Please, does anyone have a decent Charlie Manuel mask I can borrow? Before it’s too late?

  47. Philsgirl

    August 16, 2009 at 5:08 am

    Oh, and my change post-mask? Tough call, since not tremendous closer potential in the pen right now, but Park could probably get it done. Has been great his first innings in, and often wasted for facing only one or two guys. Myers, once back in shape. Put Moyer back in the rotation and give Martinez a go (if he’s up for the pressure). Why again is Moyer even thought to be able to serve as a reliever in any capacity? Oh, that’s another thread…
    Even Walker – or Smoltz. Okay, I seem to be saying, almost anyone. Get the point, Charlie? Please with a trophy on top?

  48. FightinPhils

    August 16, 2009 at 5:37 am

    Philsgirl
    Smoltz wants to start !! He does not want to pitch out of the bullpen. Pedro signed on to be a starter. Moyer is in the pen because he can’t start a game with out giving up 5 runs. Lidge is bad, but we don’t have alot of options. You can’t really put this on the coaching staff. Manuel and Dubee didn’t hand Lidge a mult-million dollar deal to just release him.

  49. FightinPhils

    August 16, 2009 at 5:41 am

    2 weeks ago everyone wanted to sell the farm for Halladay, thinking all of are problems would be answered with 1 starting pitcher. Meanwhile are we still struggle with runners in scoring postion and Hamels is clearly not the ace he was last year. Are over bullpen has also come up short compared to last year.

  50. Brian of CO

    August 16, 2009 at 6:09 am

    In case you have forgotten, Smoltz is now looking for a job because he cant start without giving up 7 runs.

  51. Brooks

    August 16, 2009 at 6:18 am

    We are still paying AE – how about giving him a shot? How much worse can it get …

    Chahlie has to get the message – waiting will only make things worse – it is already the middle of August, post season is only 48 games away! A lot of time has passed for someone to “work things out” but time is fading to get someone acclimated to the pressure of that type of situation.

    It was painful but we saw, clearly that Madsen could NOT handle that pressure. Chahlie gave him time and chances and Madsen proved to himself, Chahlie and all of us that this was NOT the spot for him. Brad has had lots of time, tons of chances and has not improved. He has not displayed the killer instinct needed to ‘clean up’ or ‘turn the lights out’ – definitely time for a change. Let’s figure this out.

    A number of commentaries (including our own beloved Mitch Williams) has said that it is important to have a change of pace, someone who can come in and confuse the hitters just for one F* n’ inning. The idea that someone who can blaze the ball at 96-98 mph seems to be awesome but Madsen, Gordon (maybe not quite that fast), Mesa, Wagner and now Lidge (who can still reach 96) proved that the key is what is going on in the head.

    Change of pace? I say give Jamie a shot. Why not? 1 inning, change of pace – you know Jamie will not try to blaze a fastball by anyone and if Madsen pitches the 8th, how much more confusing is that 69 mph slider going to look?

    At this point guys, what can it hurt?? How much worse than a 7.27 ERA can it be? And it certainly would not take that long to see if the experiment is a failure –

  52. Philsgirl

    August 16, 2009 at 6:25 am

    And what about Park? Do we know if he has expressed *not* wanting that position?

  53. Brooks

    August 16, 2009 at 6:50 am

    Point taken Philsgirl – although Park has really impressed in the long relief (for the most part). More analysis about Lidge:

    Can we compare, just for a moment his meltdown year to this year (where someone is hoping he will come back)

    2006
    78 games
    75 IP
    69 hits
    36 walks
    which is just about 1.4 baserunners per inning pitched
    10 hrs and
    5.28 ERA
    6 blown saves (32 saves in 38 SVO – 84% save ratio)

    2009 (get ready)
    48 games
    43.1 IP
    52 hits
    28 walks is just about 1.86 baserunners per inning pitched
    10 hrs (already)
    7.27 ERA
    8 blown saves (22 saves in 30 games – 73% of the time he has been successful)

    Again I say, it’s the middle of August. By the way, Brad did commit 2 errors in 2006 and so far, 2 (costly) errors this year.

    It is not too late to try.

  54. teejvee

    August 16, 2009 at 7:16 am

    How can anybody blame Lidge the pitcher for that game? Did you not watch the game?

    First batter, he gets a groundout. Should have been one out. Next batter bunts, Lidge the fielder blows it. Walks the next two intentionally.
    Next batter he k’s.Next batte he gets a weak groundout to short.

    I see 4 outs in there -not one hard hit ball.
    Other than striking everybody out, what else do you people want?

  55. Keith E

    August 16, 2009 at 7:59 am

    I want the Phils to take a 1 run lead into the 9th inning of the next 7 games. Run Lidge out there for each save and see what happens. If he fails it will make Charlie’s decision easier. The Phils are 6-45(approx) when scoring 3 or fewer runs. There is a deeper problem than Lidge in that stat. I stated on this forum prior to the start of the season when there were worries about starting pitcher’s ERA that this team was not put together to play small ball. While that is looking like an accurate viewpoint I didn’t believe they would have such a high failure rate in close, low scoring games.
    Yesterday’s game falls squarely on Lidge. He put that runner on 3rd without anyone helping him. Not only is he afraid to pitch but now he is afraid to field. It seems he is more worried about failing. That’s not good.

  56. teejvee

    August 16, 2009 at 8:38 am

    Falls squarely on Lidge? And not Utley?

    Who failed twice to get a runner in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. ( 2 gimme runs).
    Who missed that very playable ball to start the 9th?
    ( another run).

    Again, in evaluating Lidge THE PITCHER, what else can a closer do other than k 3 guys?

  57. The Dipsy

    August 16, 2009 at 8:39 am

    K and other friends. Before last night, I was waiting for one more Lidge implosion before advocating that Amaro give Lidge the
    the “Myers Treatment” and let him straighten out whats ailing him down in Reading. In every save situation for a while, I think Charlie, at this point, should ask himself “do I have a better chance winning this game by giving the ball to Lidge or to someone else”? He has been as loyal and patient with Lidge as he needs to be. The lack of suitable alternative sucks but Madson would be the choice, I guess. At this point, can Lidge pitch anyhwhere?

    The Dispy

  58. Brian Michael

    August 16, 2009 at 8:44 am

    I like the idea of the Myers Treatment, or at least considering.

    I do think though that Myers came out of it in the best case scenario…after his first start against the Mets he’s was pretty solid the rest of the way. With a closer, I think it will be much harder to maintain that level of consistency.

  59. The Dipsy

    August 16, 2009 at 8:59 am

    Well, I say it more because he can’t keep pitching in games here. Maybe in blow outs.

    The Dipsy

  60. Brooks

    August 16, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Hey Dipsy, Lidge came in at the end of a blow out (last Sunday) and gave up a 3 run dinger to Wes Helms. He has come in when we were on the other end (the good end) of the blow out and has done nearly the same.
    Regardless, it just is not working out.
    You talk about apologist tejvee? What about a 7.27 ERA does not hint of a problem friend? If last night was out of the ordinary (Lidge walking 2 batters, giving up 2 hits and an error himself) then perhaps your point could have at least a little merit pal. Note – this ain’t the first time he’s done this!!!!!!
    He is fried, toasted, overcooked and needs to put himself on the DL if Chahlie isn’t going to.

  61. shag beta sigma delta

    August 16, 2009 at 9:57 am

    I think it is crazy to think this was a blown save by Lidge, yes they should have scored more runs but they did not, 1 run lead, in the 9th, a ball that should have been an out, two errors on Lidge, then the K, now with base loaded and 1 out how you not playing for the double play there, if Rollins is in DP depth that ground ball is a DP, Lidge, as a pitcher did his job, as a fielder he caused his own problems. But am I the only one who does not get the drawn in infield with 1 out. This game is on Charlie, for not playing for the DP.
    That being said Lidge has got to get better.

  62. Jason Bintliff

    August 16, 2009 at 10:09 am

    shag,
    I normally agree but Lidge is just doesn’t throw DP balls. I believe he only has 2 all season. I think Cholly took his chances that a DP ball wouldn’t be hit and lost. That said, Cholly should’ve had them at DP depth regardless, but I understand why he did what he did.

  63. Richie Allen

    August 16, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Philsgirl you should write some articles for this blog…best and funniest of the thread.
    BUT .There seems to be more to the closer role than “having good stuff”I also thought that any successful bullpen guy could do it.Then I changed my mind when Madson really struggled,He was scared out there… There’s a huge mental aspect to the job.
    Maybe Smoltz is an option but i dont think any of our other guys are up to it.

    Lidge just seems to be “OFF”.
    How else can you describe it when he throws a fastball at 96,and still has that dropping slider,but no location ,doesnt set up hitters.

    My point here is ..I wish I were a fly on the wall in the offices of Charlie and Dubee to see what they are doing to change Lidge.There has to be a fix,maybe aromatherapy.

  64. joedad

    August 16, 2009 at 10:55 am

    On the bright side, the Phils are ahead 5 games in the loss column and only 1 game behind the Dodgers in the loss column. One patened late season run and the Phils run away with the division and have a good shot at home field.

    Although immediately after the game I was sour on Lidge, it was a tough inning to judge him. Utley should have been charged an error on the groundball. Lidge the fielder made a terrible play. Then an intentional walk, a walk and a nice K. The Infante single was a worm killer and may have been a double play if they were playing DP depth.

  65. Jeff

    August 16, 2009 at 11:21 am

    I have to admire Charlie’s loyaly to Lidge. It’s a shame that same loyalty will end up costing this team dearly, if not the division, then surely a playoff game or two. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Lidge doesn’t have it physically or mentally. He gets so psyched out that he can’t even make a simple throw to first. He’s so hard to watch that I now walk away when he comes in because it’s sad to watch someone who isn’t capable put in that position. Right now, Lidge is the worst pitcher on the team and resumes the role of one of the most important. Time to wake up Charlie….this season will soon slip by and all you’ll be able to do is shake your head and wonder what if.

  66. Az Mike

    August 16, 2009 at 11:49 am

    I agree with Jeff completely. Every season is different. It’s time to shut down Lidge for this season. Give him another shot in spring training, but don’t throw away this season by giving him a pass based on what he did last year. Hell, most of us have realized since late June that this year’s Lidge was not a closer, he was a loser. Cholly needs to wake up and start making some decisions that might not be in the mode of a players manager. Last time I checked these guys are playing for the $$$, not the love. If the Phillies lead by one tonight going to the bottom of the 9th – Who will be the closer? Let’s hope its J. Happ.

  67. Az Mike

    August 16, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    Hey teejvee- I watched the game. I can and will blame Lidge! Does he have two personalities – the fielder and the closer? It seems you want to separate those two aspects of his game. Right now he can’t do either!
    Keith wants to run Lidge out there for the next 7 games
    assuming a one run lead in all games & judge him off his record. Hell, I don’t think this team can tolerate an eight game losing streak at this point. Lose Lidge until spring training! Maybe he’ll be perfect again next year/

  68. Mark B.

    August 16, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Shouldn’t the Phils be taking a long look at trying to acquire Billy Wagner before the deadline?

  69. Jake

    August 16, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    I agree with joedad. What gets lost in this whole Lidge bashing is that he didn’t give up one hard-hit ball. I don’t understand why Charlie didn’t have Jimmy and Chase at double play depth!!!?? One out and the bases loaded!!! That last “hit” could have been and inning ending double play. I’m not saying Lidge isn’t struggling, that would be absurd. But let’s factor in all the details before we rip this guy apart.

  70. Az Mike

    August 16, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    Well said MG52 !!!

  71. Georgie

    August 16, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    I missed the game but did record it, let me ask, is there any reason for me to waste part of this afternoon watching ANY part of it? Or should I just delete it?

  72. Chuck

    August 16, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    This was one of those games that could come back to bite us in the a$$. It’s inexcusable that we lost this game. Blame Lidge all you want, yes, because he totally blew it. Not so much in his pitch selection, but in his total mental makeup on the mound. I mean, ok, so he didn’t field the bunt correctly. Ok, fine. So then, just eat the damn ball. Don’t try to get the guy out at first and send the ball on a trip down the right field line. Mentally, this guy, Lidge, just isn’t there. Period.

    But… if we’re blaming Lidge, which we should, then we need to blame the offense even more. It’s unfathomable that we can have a runner on third with less than two outs THREE TIMES in the game and THREE TIMES we don’t get that runner across home plate.

    So while Lidge blew the game, as I almost knew he would, I am more puzzled and irritated over the offensive lack of production in key situations.

  73. Chuck

    August 16, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Georgie….if you are in the mood to put your fist through the wall, then by all means watch the game. Otherwise, delete it and move on to tonight.

  74. Georgie

    August 16, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Thanks, Chuck, I think I may just watch the 9th inning, because I am a glutton for punishment, apparently. Actually, I want to see the Chase misplay/error, and Lidge’s reaction, and that alone should be sufficient to put me in an awesome mood for the rest of the day.

  75. Tony

    August 16, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    I am so tired of the apologists here. If the team did this or if the team did that we wouldn’t have lost. It’s not about what ifs it’s about Lidge not getting the job done. I have seen enough of him this year to know he is not up to the task. Even if the Phillies scored one more run on one of those man of third with no out situations, Lidge would have found a way to blow the save. The last hit he gave up plated one and pehaps two runs and the inning was still not over. As far as the fielders not helping him out of the inning sh*t happens, but a good closer overcomes adversity and finds a way to win. There have been too many failed outcomes this year to make excuses for him.

  76. psujoe

    August 16, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Lidge to Reading to get straightened out. Park to Closer and Moyer to long relief. Mathieson isn’t ready and proabbly won’t be. Myers is along shot. Give Park a shot. his stuff looks pretty darn good.

  77. Brad C

    August 16, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    I remember what happened last time we wanted Lidge out- madson had as bad, if not worse, time at closing then Lidge did. Until Meyers comes back, if he does come back, we have to deal. And I knowi that loss against the Braves was technically Lidge’s fault, but the Phils had guys on 3rd in 3 seperate innings with 0 or 1 outs and could not bring home any more runs. We all know that no lead is safe for Lidge, and we are better off if he never has to come into a game

  78. Manny

    August 16, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Please send Lidge to Reading or Clearwater or wherever… let him get some saves there, regain his confidence…and then bring him up. It’s mid-August already!!

    Staying and trying over and over again with the big team is clearly not doing any good. If anything, he keeps getting worse.

    An ERA over 7 and ESPECIALLY a WHIP of 1.85 is inexcusable for a closer. Rather than shutting down the other team, he lets 2 guys get on base on average… there’s no way he’ll get too many saves if this is what he’s doing everytime he comes to the mound.

  79. j reed

    August 16, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    It has been clear that Lidge struggles continued after the his stint after the DL despite racking up x number of saves. So where has the mangagement been in all this? If Lidge’s problems are his mechanics as his control problems suggest then the responsiblity falls on the coaching side of the equation. I don’t what to give up on Lidge but have no faith in the organization to fix pitchers….we just aren’t a pitching club…I think were screwed unless Rueben can pull a closer out of a magic hat or unless we play closer by lottery and hope we don’t lose to many games trying to find the one who works.

  80. Leon-Deon-VA.Tech

    August 16, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    The Whole National league wants Charlie to keep “On the ledge Lidge” as the Philly closer who wouldn’t…..Charlie please don’t sit him down….he’s such a nice guy…PLEASE :}

    philly closer who wouldn’t ….

  81. Bob

    August 17, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Im late on this one but to the person or people who say that we will lose the division if we stick with Lidge you are WRONG:

    1. We have some room to play with (a 4 game lead)
    2. To all the people bitching and complaining: come with a realistic solution.
    Madson is not one right now barring injury-do you really want to risk his confidence?
    Park is thriving in his current role. We dont know if we are getting Myers back.
    Smoltz couldn’t get anyone out starting, you think he is in the mental shape to close a game right now?

    It is Brad Lidge as of now, for better or worse. He has been terrible for the most part but I’m with Charlie in keeping the faith. Now if he needs to modify things by giving Lidge 1-2 out saves that I say go for it.

    There is always more than one solution to a problem. I believe in Lidge and the rest of this pen. They will work together to get things right.

    PHAITH people, try it sometime.

  82. Pingback: Let’s play a game… « Fire Eric Bruntlett

  83. Rob Okorududu

    June 29, 2010 at 1:20 am

    wow amazing write-ups

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