Year in Review: Pedro Feliz – Phillies Nation
2009 Year in Review

Year in Review: Pedro Feliz

Over the next few weeks, Phillies Nation will break down each player on the Phillies roster and grade their 2009 season on a very unofficial 1-10 scale.  The players will be chosen in no particular order.

Philadelphia Phillies' Pedro Feliz (7) rounds the bases as his teammates cheer from the dugout after a solo home run in the eighth inning of Game 4 of the Major League Baseball World Series against the New York Yankees Sunday, Nov. 1, 2009, in Philadelphia. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)The numbers don’t lie: .323, .302, .295, .290, .275, .267, .266.

Each figure represents Pedro Feliz’s batting average on the final day of the month.  The Phils third baseman started off smoking hot, and emitted that heat through the month of May.  For two months, he was perhaps the most solid batter in the order.

Then things clearly went south.  Feliz came back to earth and his average by the end of the season was at .266 – basically on par with his career numbers.  As the season wound down, so did Feliz.  Maybe it was his age (34), or his duties playing a tough position.  Whatever the case, it was a steady decline.

When swinging the stick, his numbers were decent.  In 158 games, Feliz hit 12 home runs and knocked in 82 runs.  A telling stat was his ability to come through with runners in scoring position.  Feliz managed a team best .336 average in that situation, a testament more so to the offense as a whole than his aptitude with the bat.  Pedro 7th position in the order clearly paid dividends, as he benefited nicely hitting behind Ryan Howard, Jayson Werth, and Raul Ibanez.

Defensively, Feliz has been a rock at one of the most important positions on the diamond.  Many believe him to be near the top of his position when it comes to flashing the leather.  However, his numbers would prove otherwise.

The basics stats on defense show Feliz to be very good in comparison to other NL 3B’s. His 15 errors in 1364 innings are fine and his 35 double plays turned were tops in the league.  But if you go by The Fielding Bible, you’ll notice that Feliz is not among the leaderboard when it comes to plus/minus, a statistic which represents the number of plays a player made above or below the number that an average fielder would make.

Factoring in plus/minus, Pedro Feliz was above average at +5. That wasn’t even close to the guys at the top of the list, like Chone Figgins (+40), Ryan Zimmerman (+28), Adrian Beltre (+27), and Scott Rolen (+21).  His defensive zone rating is also average compared to those at his position.  While Feliz certainly did make a real difference offensively for half of the season and was a solid defender throughout, he clearly regressed from start to finish on both sides of the ball.

Ruben Amaro may have noticed the trend and therefore decided to decline his option for the 2010 season. That does not mean Feliz will not be back, but Amaro is making it clear he is worth less than the $5.5 million he was owed.  Two of those gentlemen at the top of the list, Figgins and Beltre, are available through free agency.  Could one be next at the hot corner here in Philly?

It was a productive season for Pedro Feliz.  The postseason was clearly a different story, as Pete Happy managed just nine hits in 54 at-bats in the playoffs, consistently killing rallies in October.  He is on the downside of what has been a serviceable career and it appears his time here in red pinstripes is over.

2009 numbers: 158 games, .266 avg., 12 HR, 82 RBI, 62 R, .694 OPS, .336 BA/RISP

GRADE: 5/10 – Feliz was average, plain and simple.  His defense was surely solid, but his bat, compared to other corner infielders (power positions) was well below the league average.

Pat Gallen can be reached via email at



  1. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 9:22 am

    5/10 seems ok. I think he deserves at least a 6/10. He saved the Phillies a lot of runs with his defense and his hits early in the year with RISP, especially late in games really went understated by a lot.

    I heard that the Phillies are really considering Figgins which really surprises me. Really I would only want him if he was going to become the lead off hitter. Ponder this for a second, if Figgins becomes the lead off hitter, can you expect J-Roll to change his plate approach and maybe be that guy that provides some power from the right handed side of the plate?

    I really thought the Phillies would go after Beltre or DeRosa first since I don’t see J-roll being moved down in the lineup.

    Personally I don’t get this at all. I think they need more power from the right handed side of the plate more than they do a true lead off hitter. Beltre is that guy. Maybe they are worried about his injury history, a valid concern but before last year he had played at least 149 games for 5 straight years. But even still, Beltre is a better fielder, hits for more power and is a type B free agent compared to Figgins who is a type A and is going to cost you, your first round pick and a sandwich pick.

    Honestly, I think I’d rather have Pedro back on the cheap and use the extra cash to go after bullpen arms then to sign Figgins and then hamstring you in other areas.

  2. Pat Gallen

    November 11, 2009 at 9:30 am

    Ed R., the fact is, he did not save as many runs as you think. According to the Fielding Bible, he saved just 5 runs this season, while in comparison, Chone Figgins saved 31 and Adrian Beltre 22! It wasnt even close.

    I think Feliz was solid, but he’s not as great as everyone is making him out to be.

  3. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 9:36 am

    Thanks for the correction Pat. I guess its entirely possible that going from David Bell/Wes Helms to Feliz made it seem like Feliz was more of a vacuum than he really is.

    By the same token it seems like Figgins would be a defensive upgrade, which is of course fantastic but I still feel like the Phillies need more power, crazy as it is to say than they do speed. But again, if Rollins can move down in the order and you have something like:


    I guess that would work but I can’t see a guy who has been the lead off hitter for the better part of a decade suddenly being happy with being the 7th hitter. Not unless you consider:


    I could see that happening, not sure I am happy with it though.


  4. Manny

    November 11, 2009 at 9:40 am

    I think that Utley-Howard-Werth is pretty much set in stone for next season, especially after Werth’s monster year.

  5. Pat Gallen

    November 11, 2009 at 9:46 am

    If the Phillies say they have as much cash to spend as they do, then getting Figgins shouldnt be a problem. However, if he wants 4-5 years at $10MM a year , no thanks.

    The safer bet would be Beltre. He’s young, gives you some power, great D, and is still only 30. He’d come much cheap and he doesnt give you the top of the order player your looking for, the lineup will still be powerful (maybe even more so than a year ago).

    I would put Beltre maybe 6, Ibanez 7 to give some righty power there.

  6. bfo_33

    November 11, 2009 at 9:49 am

    Agree with the 5 out of 10, solid, but not spectacular. While not a small market team, the Phils can’t have an all-star at every position, and really need to think through where they are going to spend their money (not sour grapes, just a fact). Going for Figgins would seem to be a drastic change in the offense (not bad, but very different). I think the money could be better spent in a righty starter. If Figgins is the path forward, suggest the following line-up:
    While Rollins has his issues at the plate, I Vic is a terrible situational hitter, would be much better suited to 7 in this line-up.
    I hope they resign Pedro at a lower rate, but the Phils typically telegraph their moves. By declining Pedro’s option, I think they have a plan for replacement already (Figgins or Beltre). I’d lean towards Figgins, but it is going to hurt soem feelings.

  7. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Feliz ranked 9th in RBI among all third basemen…

    1. Longoria = 113,
    2. Zimmerman = 106,
    3. Reynolds = 102,
    4. ARod = 100,
    5. Sandoval = 90,
    6. Kouzmanoff = 88,
    7. Inge =84,
    8. Peralta = 83 ,
    9. Feliz = 82,
    10. Blake = 79

    Of the 8 ahead of him, only 4 had a higher batting average..

    Those four are:
    1. Longoria = .281,
    2. Zimmerman = .292,
    3. ARod = .286,
    4. Sandoval = .330
    5. Feliz = .266

    There are a few guys with less RBI, but higher averages… David Wright, Michael Young, Chone Figgins,

    Basically, Pedro ain’t the greatest player of all time… but he’s a better than average thirdbasemen

  8. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 9:52 am

    I agree with you Pat. To me Beltre is the better option and I think he can thrive batting 6 or 7 in this lineup. In Seattle he didn’t see anything to hit for years, it would obviously be a different story here.

    With Figgins, I feel like the Phillies are pursuing him because they can, not necessarily because they need him. I really don’t think they do. I would much rather the money go to pitching. If you can’t get Beltre for maybe a 1-2 mil more than you were going to pay Feliz then I would just bring back Feliz.

    I agree with you Manny that Utley, Howard and Werth is the 3-4-5 for at least one more year.

  9. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 9:56 am

    I doubt theyd sign Figgins, it causes too many problems with the lineup, you kind of need at least a bit of pop from 3B. Figgins also has never done squat in the postseason in his career.

  10. Brian Michael

    November 11, 2009 at 9:57 am

    I still think there’s a chance of resigning Feliz for less than his declined club option of $5 mil. I think at a lower price he he would definitely be worth the money. That said, 3B is one of the few (only?) positions the Phillies could use an upgrade.

  11. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 9:58 am

    Don M. it is also worth mentioning that the first 5 3B’s that had more RBI than Feliz, were their respective teams 3-5 hitters whereas Feliz batted 7th for the Phillies.

    Honestly, Figgins had a spectacular year last year but the year before that he had 1 home run and 22 rbi. Sure he steals a lot of bases but you have to believe that as he gets older those numbers will decline. His OBP and OPS are both outstanding and if he can continue to have some solid plate discipline then all the better but I really think the Phillies need the power more than anything else.

  12. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 10:02 am

    I agree Brian in that 3B is about the only position where they could use an upgrade, maybe catcher but Ruiz is so clutch and calls such a good game that I think he is perfectly suited where he is.

    It’s also worth mentioning that people ripped Feliz for his awful post season this past year but for their career’s, Figgin’s post season numbers make Feliz look like Mr. October.

  13. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 10:02 am

    They have to be thinking about Beltre or DeRosa. I dont see how Figgins fits onto this team. Beltre seems to fit. DeRosa fits on any team. I cant see Figgins…

  14. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 10:13 am

    DeRosa does fit on any team but not as a starter, not in my mind.

  15. The Original Chuck P

    November 11, 2009 at 10:15 am

    5 out of 10 is harsh… 80+ RBI, solid defense (although, by his standards, could have been better…) still, looking at the numbers, he had a good year: 4th in the NL in UZR, best on the team with RISP, best in the bigs at turning double plays. He’s a nice fit… I disagree with the comment about him not comparing well with other corner infielders and third base being a power position. I think that the game has changed; guys like Utley and Kinsler can generate power at 2B, meaning that you might not need power at 3B.

    If we bring someone in who hits 20 points better throughout the season but 20 points worse with RISP and can’t turn half of the DP’s that Feliz was able to turn is that really good for our team? I like Feliz… I see why you might be worried that he’s on the decline and I’m ok with seeking out a replacement but Feliz deserves more credit for what he did.

  16. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 10:16 am


  17. Manny

    November 11, 2009 at 10:21 am

    I’m sorry but I’d take Figgins over J-roll as my leadoff guy these days. He’d definitely be an upgrade. Remember last year when we were saying how Rauuuuul wouldn’t be the right “fit” for this team (too many lefties, bla bla bla)… and we worked around it. What happened? Rauuul was amazing and Werth stepped up. I can see a similar story with Figgins… he’d be great as leadoff (who cares if he doesn’t hit HRs, he’s the leadoff guy!) and he’d make J-roll a better player –despite batting 7th or whatever!

  18. Manny

    November 11, 2009 at 10:25 am

    I agree with that, Original. That’s why I think that IF we’re gonna upgrade 3B, we might as well go for a true upgrade like Figgins. If not, we’re still very good with Feliz on board, and I’d be happy if he stays with us in the end.

  19. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 10:25 am

    Manny I don’t have a problem with Figgins not hitting home runs. Like I said a few days ago, I think what lead to Rollin’s decline in numbers was that he fell in love with the long ball instead of doing what he did best was hitting to the gaps and down the lines. If he can get back to that we are fine. My issue with Figgins is more that signing him is more expensive than other options out there and his signing would require shifting the line up, more so than I think is needed.

  20. Manny

    November 11, 2009 at 10:33 am

    Who knows how expensive this free agent market will be? I really don’t see Figgins getting a 4 or 5 year deal, given the gloomy economic conditions. And I don’t see many teams interested in Figgins either. So…. I think that the chances of snatching him for a fair price are bigger than what most people think.

  21. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Not to mention Figgins requires handing over draft picks. I would be ok doing that for a solid starter or a good bull pen arm, but not at 3B. Not when we can just as easily bring back Feliz.

  22. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 10:39 am

    You may be right Manny. After all, we probably paid more for Ibanez than we needed to. Not to say he didn’t earn it but in hindsight he probably would have come cheaper given what Abreau and Burrell both signed for last year.

  23. Manny

    November 11, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Is Figgins a good “character” guy, by the way? I don’t know a thing about what he brings to a clubhouse (that is, besides strong defense, speed, and runs, haha).


    The Phillies are “showing preliminary interest” in free agent reliever Fernando Rodney, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.

  24. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 10:49 am

    Yeah Rodney would be an OK temporary closer if he needed to be.

  25. Pat Gallen

    November 11, 2009 at 10:50 am,201688

    You have Mark Miller of Yahoo saying Figgins is on the “front burner” for the Phillies right off the bat. Not sure you can ever fully believe the big guns when it comes to something like this – id rather hear it from Murphy or Martino or Zolecki.

  26. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 10:52 am

    Yeah I agree, I need local confirmation of that. Those guys dont know the Phillies as well.

  27. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Beacuse the only way Figgins fits into this lineup is if they trade Victorino for pitching. Im not saying thats the way to go, but Im just trying to see how he even fits here.

  28. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 10:53 am

    I am friends with a life time Tigers fan, lives in Detroit and he never seemed happy when Rodney came into the game. Rodney like many closers seemed to do so much better in save situations than non save situations, which, if you are trying to find a back up for Lidge can go one of two ways. It is good that he can be solid if he needs to step in for Lidge but what about if he doesn’t? What good is he to the team if he has like a 6.00 era(ball park) in non save situations.

  29. Bob Kahn

    November 11, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Drop the grades!

  30. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 10:58 am

    Yeah thats bad. Some of these type A guys will not get offered arbitration beacuse they would accept it. I sitll say its Soriano, no way they will offer him Arbitration.

  31. Philly Texan

    November 11, 2009 at 11:16 am

    I don’t see the Phils really going after Figgins. Too expensive. With his age, that looks like a bad contract waiting to happen.

    Beltre looks a lot better.

    Or Polanco. Hasn’t played much third, but I think he could. He’s a professional hitter. Very tough out.

    They don’t need a lot of power out of the No. 7 hole. But I’d like to see the Phils get someone who’s a tough out at the bottom of the order, a guy who makes the pitcher work, gets on base and can jump start an inning for the big boys.

    Pedro Feliz never did that. Yeah, he had 82 RBIs, but more often than not, he swings at the first pitch and grounds out. That’s not what this lineup needs.

    I would argue that we could get a third baseman who will put up similar numbers, but they’ll be more productive numbers. Someone who’s a tough out, has a higher OPS and will help the rest of the lineup more by mkaing the pitcher work.

  32. The Original Chuck P

    November 11, 2009 at 11:31 am

    I’m strongly against Figgins… I just don’t see that ending well. He’s a good player but at 31 years old, he’s probably going to command a pretty lofty salary and he’s a Type A and he doesn’t really fit with what we’ve got. For once, I agree with Geoff; unless pieces are being subtracted (namely Victorino), I don’t see how this works.

    Beltre might be the best fit but he’s going to cost us a lot of coin and a shot at potentially getting a guy like Roy Halladay.

  33. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 11:38 am

    Couldn’t agree more Original.

  34. The Original Chuck P

    November 11, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Philly Texan – I somewhat disagree… while I’m not dismissing the Polanco idea, I think that Pedro’s aggressiveness is welcomed in the 7 hole. Rarely is he jump starting anything… more often than not, his most important at bats are when there’s a man on base (situations where one of Howard, Werth, Ibanez reached base and it’s left up to Feliz to drive them in). If Pedro can’t drive in runs, he leaves it up to Chooch and the pitcher and I love Chooch but he’s not exactly an RBI machine, plus if there’s a base open, Chooch isn’t going to see a quality pitch to hit. On the rare occasion that Feliz leads off an inning, you have Chooch and an automatic out behind him… and then it’s up to Jimmy (not really jump starting a rally there).

  35. George

    November 11, 2009 at 11:48 am

    At the beginning of the year, Feliz did help turn over the lineup. Anyone who ends up with 82 RBIs out of the seven hole can’t be considered non-productive.

    The biggest problem with Feliz was his gradual slowdown through the season. Age is probably a factor in that. That’s probably why the Phils are looking for an upgrade.

    I also think that switching the lineup around is the right approach, rather than more power. Rollins just isn’t any good as a leadoff hitter. The Phils have power aplenty right now, but too many times this year the homers were solo shots. An OBP under .300 just doesn’t cut it leading off. You also can’t play small ball when no one is on base. If Rollins doesn’t like the seven hole, too bad. He’d probably be fine with it, though.

  36. Pat Gallen

    November 11, 2009 at 11:54 am

    Feliz was certainly good in the 7 hole, not dismissing him. However, he sees a ton of pitches because of who he hits behind. I’d like to think, with better power, Beltre would give you just as many RBI, if not more. Plus, better D.

    The more I think about it, if Beltre wants to go 2 yrs, $16 mil, why the hell not. I could get 75 RBI in that lineup batting 7th.

  37. Pat Gallen

    November 11, 2009 at 11:56 am

    He had a great first half. What did that coincide with? Raul Ibanez’s sickly hot first half as well. It seemed when Raul faded, so did Pedro. We need just a tad more stability there.

  38. Phils fan in NYC

    November 11, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    eh, i liked Feliz… he did have those mindboggling/swing at the first pitch at-bats that made us all crazy, but he was good while in philly. had a big hit in the series vs. tampa, big HR vs. chamberlain, had a few big hits during the seasons as well, etc. I think we can all look fondly on him. 266-12-82 isn’t a bad season by any means… and everyone on the team seemed to like him. Character can go a long way sometimes.

  39. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Interesting article on what determines a Free Agent’s classification.

  40. Manny

    November 11, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    For some reason something clicks the minute Pedro has runners on base… I like the guy.

  41. The Original Chuck P

    November 11, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    That’s the concern, George and I share that concern… is his age slowing him down? I’m really ok with seeking out a replacement but I think that you have to find someone that is above average defensively and someone that can drive in runs at an affordable price. Feliz really was the perfect fit for this team; the book on Feliz has always been that he comes up with clutch hits. I don’t see Figgins fulfilling that role… so you’d have to switch the lineup and that’s probably not going to happen. It’s really tough moving Jimmy out of that leadoff spot because he is our best base runner (the one guy that can steal a base at will). His OBP is not leadoff material but if you move him into the 7 hole, you essentially take away his ability to run (he’s not going to steal second with Chooch up and the pitcher on deck). So you would have to move Vic and the only way you do that is if you feel like Brown is ready to replace him. I love Brown but I’m not sure if he’s ready. Truth be told, I’m not really high on Vic so a trade would be fine by me- Vic’s defense is not that great (UZR is in minus territory) and he’s going to wear down because he puts so much strain on his body on a daily basis. He’s a grinder but he has probably benefitted from being a part of this lineup more than anybody else… I think that he’s replaceable. Ibanez is bridging the gap for Taylor… other than that, the name of the game is to keep what we’ve got and add pitching.

  42. The Original Chuck P

    November 11, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    I’m going to go a little nuts… assuming that we have $15 million to work with, my dream scenario would be this:

    Trade Vic and Trevor May for Halladay and start D. Brown or Michael Taylor, if Taylor, Werth in CF (net cost $9 million)- try to work on an extension but be happy with two picks if Roy walks. Thinking about a Lee/Halladay/Hamels/Happ/Drabek rotation makes me giddy… but extending Lee and Halladay might only be doable if you trade someone like Hamels. Next years FA’s: Rollins ($8.5 mil option, $2 mil buyout), Werth, Moyer, Blanton, Lee, Durbin. The only money we lose is Moyer, Blanton and Durbin (about $15 million)… everything is leading up to 2012 and we have to have a lot of money available. We have to be thinking about Brown and Taylor and Drabek if we want to keep this team together.

    Re-Sign Feliz for $4 million (net savings of $1 million).

    Sign Jerry Hairston, Jr… a much cheaper utility alternative… $1-2 million

    Spend $5 million on bullpen depth…

  43. Phils fan in NYC

    November 11, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    espn is talking mike lowell to the phils… i guess that has to be a trade though, right?

  44. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Correct Phils fan, that would require a trade. But it won’t happen. The Phillies wont trade for someone coming off two straight injury plagued seasons when healthier and better options are out there without having to give up prospects.

  45. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    They dont want Lowell. Boston is stuck with him. Lowell would be a downgrade from Feliz because in the National League you actually have to have some athletic ability, and Lowell is a stiff at this point.

  46. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    No idea what “UZR” is, and i’ve stated lots of times that im not a big Victorino fan

    but there is no denying that he is one of the best defenders in all of baseball..

    He should be collecting his 2nd Gold Glove later today, and it will be well deserved..

    And it’s hard to knock a guy that leads the team in batting average the past two years as a “grinder” … he is that scrappy-player. But he gets a lot of multi-hit games and stuff too .. he’s got more skill than I give him credit for, and I would really hate to see him play for another team

  47. The Original Chuck P

    November 11, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    The Red Sox are dying to get rid of Lowell… could that be an option if the Red Sox were willing to eat most of his salary?

  48. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    We were so pissed when we didn’t sign Mike Lowell, pissed when we didn’t get Soriano, Derek Lowe… and the list goes on

    I am so very grateful for the Phillies organization.. and the great job they’ve done from top-to-bottom, on field, and off ..

  49. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Yeah they made the right choice in those cases. Trading for Lowell would make the team WORSE, not BETTER. They cut Feliz so they can get BETTER. Lowell hasnt really played in two years. He cannot field anymore, his bat has gone silent too. That would be a major mistake, and the Phillies will not make that mistake.

    Soriano is a bad contract too, so is Lowe’s (man he dropped off in a slightly smaller ballpark).

    Sometimes its the money you dont spend so that when you do spend it you make the right choice.

  50. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    J-Roll and Victorino should both keep their gold gloves from last year and Utley should win his first.

  51. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    I for one was happy they didn’t sign Lowell and Soriano. I did want Lowe though.

  52. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Phillipes will win at 2b again.. I think he only had like 4 errors or something

    I don’t know if he will or not.. but I think Matt Kemp could win one in the OF

    Im guessing Zimmerman, Pujols, Molina … not sure who else in the NL Outfield is GOLD GLOVE though

  53. The Original Chuck P

    November 11, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    The way I understand it, UZR computes a players ability to get to the balls that are hit in the tough spots of their “zone.” Truth be told, all of Vic’s defensive metrics are average this year and I would be very surprised if he won a Gold Glove (Matt Kemp or Michael Bourn). I think that he’s a solid player… he’s ok with the bat, his arm is average to above average, he has average to above average speed… he has above average talent but he takes bad lines and doesn’t always get a good jump on the ball. I think that we have to prioritize… in my opinion, he’s replaceable and we have a pretty good replacement on the farm so it’s an easier decision.

  54. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Phillies had 9 errors to Utley’s 12. But Utley had a better range factor RF and UZR.

    Victorino, McClouth and Morgan, yeah Morgan from the Nationals would be my picks. Based on their numbers, they seem like the most logical choices.

  55. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Wait ..


    OK with the bat.. career .284 hitter .. hit .293 last year, .292 this year

    Arm average-to above average? .. He’s easily got one of the strongest throwing arms in the game

    Speed average-to- aobve averag.. He’s arguably the fastest player on one of the overall fastest teams in baseball.. covers lots of ground in the OF, and flys around the basepaths (not as good as “baserunner” as Utley.. but way faster)

    Bad lines/ bad jumps on balls … compared to who? Compared to most other OF’s in baseball, he’s way better. .. compared to himself from last year.. I would say that he looked a little more hesitant at times this year .. And I really think that the misjudged ball in the World Series must be sticking out in your mind ..

    Defensively.. outside of maybe Torii Hunter.. I’ll take Victorino over just about anyone else in baseball to cover Centerfield.

  56. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Phillips has the reputation as the better defensive player though.. and often times, that is enough to win

    sometimes.. a solid bat wins you a Gold Glove though.. as is the case with David Wright before.. and probably Joe Mauer and Derek Jeter this year in the American League

    so Utley has a chance to win just because people know his name more than other secondbasemen.. but I would be surprised

    I think our two winners from last year, will bring home the award this year too

  57. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Supposedly Chan Ho made a visit to Korea recently and told the reporters there that his intention next year is to be a starter.

    If that is the case I can’t see Chopper resigning here.

  58. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    ruben will have to straighten him out. He is far better as a reliever. He was nasty at times coming out the pen in the playoffs.

  59. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    I agree, he is not a starter. It’s not even a question.

  60. psujoe

    November 11, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Anybody think the Phils could probably resign Feliz for about 3.5-3.75 million? With all the 3b out there he should be relatively cheap. A savings like that cuold go a long way towards the cost of a high end starter or set-up/closer.

  61. Manny

    November 11, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    I agree with Don on Victorino.. the guy is one of the best CFs in the game, even though he’s not one of my personal favorites.

  62. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    I think the cheapest you will get Feliz for is 4.00.

  63. Josh

    November 11, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    I’m confused at why people think Beltre would be a good fit for the Phillies. People keep saying he will add power to our right side. Has anyone noticed Beltre’s stats over the past couple years? The guy has been awful. Maybe a change of scenery would help, but I wouldn’t bank on that.

    DeRosa should be our guy. He is a gritty player who will add a pretty consistent bat to the bottom of our lineup. Maybe not a massive upgrade, but at least he isn’t on a decline like Feliz or Beltre.

  64. Geoff

    November 11, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    Mark DeRosa is 34/35 years old, I wouldnt rely on him as an everyday guy.

  65. Georgie

    November 11, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Is it considered dishonorable or something in Korea if you are not a starting pitcher? Chan Ho just seems so obsessed with starting, and he has to have realized by his performances last season that he’s better suited for the pen.

    Mike Lowell kooks older than me, and that’s too old to be playing mlb.

    I’m not completely sold on letting Feliz go, I was kind of surprised when that was one of the first things Ruben said after the series. An upgrade would be nice, but is it really necessary? You absolutely CAN’T go with a downgrade defensively, that would be counterproductive. I like Pedro, and if you’re not going to significantly improve at 3rd without spending a heap of cash, then I’d just re-sign him.

  66. Georgie

    November 11, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    *IF you can get him to sign for a little less.

  67. The Original Chuck P

    November 11, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    I hate feeling like a Vic basher… I appreciate what he has done but I feel like his skill set is the most replaceable. His arm is OK… he might have the third best arm in the Phillies outfield. He came into the league throwing darts but he rarely shows off that arm strength anymore. He is very fast but speed is not irreplaceable (see Bourn, Michael). He uses his speed to catch up with the balls that he misjudges… that play in the WS does stick out in my mind, you are right, but I can think of a dozen other plays in ’09 that he barely makes or doesn’t make because of a bad jump or a bad line. He did not look as prolific in the field this year as he did in 2008…

  68. George

    November 11, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Original Chuck P, I don’t really see why speed can’t be a factor out of the seven slot. It might be useful to have a runner steal second with Ruiz up. Chooch might get more RBIs with Rollin’s speed than with Feliz, who could never get in scoring position without hitting for extra bases.

    Rollins had fewer steals this year, anyway, and that is mostly a function of not being on base. Figgins stole more because he got on, and that’s what you need for leadoff.

    Dropping Rollins down might also mean more power further down. He did hit more home runs than Feliz.

  69. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Georgie, I don’t think it is dishonorable or anything like that but Park is pretty much a national hero to his native Korea. As a starter the people there can tune in every 5th day to watch their guy pitch. As a reliever you never know when you are getting into the game. I think that plays a big factor in all of this for Park. Now, whether that is the right way of thinking for a professional athlete is another discussion entirely.

    If the Phillies do sign Figgins I would hope the Phillies leave Vic in the 2 and move Rollins down in the order. Let him bat where he really belongs. If he adds some pop to the 7th hole then more power to him. You see what I did there? Oh, is this work day over yet.

  70. George

    November 11, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    That being said, I don’t think Figgins is a necessity. He’s just a possibility. Feliz can keep playing 3rd for the Phils, but it’s wise to look into alternatives. I think Beltre is too big a risk, and DeRosa is a utility man, not an everyday option. Polanco is a good second baseman, but might not do as well at 3rd.

    If Amaro wants to upgrade, he should be looking at better players, and Figgins is one of them. There are some others I might prefer, but they’d have to come via trade.

    Lowell is a brontosaurus these days, except a brontosaurus would probably be faster. If the Phils sign him, I’ll start rooting for the Pirates.

  71. Chuck

    November 11, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    This past summer there was A LOT of talk about Werth being the one that was the most “expendable”… it seems as though everyone feels like Vic is the guy and I agree….I’ve always though that Werth was the one guy in the outfield that 1) hits for power…from the right side 2) has a great arm and 3) does have some speed. I never understood this great need to necessarily deal him..

    I like Shane but if he can land us pitching help then maybe that’s something to consider..I don’t know..

    And with Werth….another year like 2009 and he’s gonna be looking at money that maybe the Phils can’t…or won’t…cough up..

    All something to consider..

  72. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    3rd best arm in the Phillies OF

    Werth doesn’t have a stronger arm than Victorino (Werth has one of the strongest arms in in the NL, but its behind Victorino)

    I know you can’t be talking about Ibanez.. so that would mean Francisco??

    I don’t think people are looking at Beltre to be some great power hitter.. and maybe not even a POWER-upgrade over Feliz .. but from what i’m reading, he is supposed to be BETTER defensively than Pedro Feliz (I wouldn’t know since he’s played his entire career on the West Coast.. i dont ever see him play)

    But he’s something like a .299 career hitter against Left Handed Pitchers.. and if you have Werth and Beltre batting behind Utley and Howard .. you can still do some nice damage against LHP from top-to-bottom in your lineup

  73. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Gold Gloves for the NL

    1B – Adrian Gonzalez
    2B – O-dog
    3B – Ryan Zimmerman
    SS – J-Roll

    OF- Michael Bourn
    OF – Matt Kemp
    OF – Victorino

    C – Benji Molina
    P – Adam Wainwright

  74. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    I assure you, if Beltre signed here he would be a power upgrade over Feliz. As well as a fielding upgrade. But it might end there.

  75. Ed R.

    November 11, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Correction, thats Yadier Molina for Gold Glove, not Benji…wrong Molina.

  76. psujoe

    November 11, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    I’d take Derosa for 3/18 over figgins 5/10.

  77. psujoe

    November 11, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    correction. 3/18, 5/50.

  78. Brian of CO

    November 11, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    reading the article and some of the comments are funny. Feliz is definately not the best at his position, but some of “The Fielding Bible” seem to have stats created simply to help or hurt an analysts case towards a player. For instance The Fielding Bible “represents the number of plays a player made above or below the number that an average fielder would make.” Is it really possible to say as a FACT that the +/- is a great number to go by? To mean it almost sounds like picking the Dodgers over the Phillies in the NLCS simply because the Dodgers had home field advantage, and a better regular season record without letting them play the games because of the “averages”. Unless the description of The Fielding Bible was worded poorly, it was worded to say an average 3rd basemen would or would not have plade a particular play. I just dont think thats a great “stat”. Look at Utley in the NLCS. 95 maybe even 99% of the time he would make those throws, but in those times he didnt, so the Fielding Bible would knock him down because average players would do it. It seems to be the Fielding Bible doesnt take into account strengths or weaknesses. There are some plays I would argue that a Feliz has made quite often which Average players could NOT have made, and in the same token, there are quite a few plays Feliz did NOT make which an average player COULD have made. Granted some of skeptisism is from plain old ignorrance of the ins and outs of The Fielding Bible, but the way it was described made it seem like a set of “stats” that were created out of the blue without actually using what actually happened in the season (i.e. # of errors, or fielding %) and using theoretical type of “what if’s”. I would NOT argue that Feliz is “awesome” or anything, but unless it a CLEAR upgrade in all respects, I think its better to try to get a lower contract. I mean Pedro is no Mike Schmidt, but he is very acceptable unless we can get a CLEAR CUT upgrade at a decent price.

  79. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    The knock on Pedro is his lack of RANGE .. but when you have a Gold Glove SS next to him, with plenty of range, and plenty of arm .. its less of an issue (Rollins, last year more than ever before, seemed a little OFF going to his backhand) ..

    But Pedro Feliz has some of the surest hands.. and probably THE most accurate arm in the NL .. rankings, etc.. you can lie with any statistics that you want

    but anyone that watches a lot of baseball knows the Feliz is above-average Defensively ..

    I wouldn’t pay 3/18 for DeRosa, NOR would I pat 5/50 for Chone Figgins

  80. 2010 WF Fightins'

    November 11, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Ruben sign Feliz for about 3mill(He did get the series winning hit in the ’08 WS). Then go for broke and go get Doc Halladay. They say Boston will put together the best offer, but so what.

    1. Doc Halladay 2. Lee 3. Cole “Please don’t call me soft while I’m breast feeding my baby.” Hamels(I’m giving him 1 more chance) 4. Blanton(inngs eater and proud former Happy Meals eating contest Champion as well) 5. Happ(protects his young arm but could easily be #3) . Tell me who’s going f*ck with staff??

    As long as Werth/Vic don’t backside this O will be fine. And if we can get J-Roll to publicly predict that he’ll hit .400avg w/125 steals/ob% of .420/5 pitch abs in 2010 then maybe he’ll hit .295avg/45 steals/.380 ob%/4 pitch abs.

    J-Roll is the key obviously. He gets going and the O will remain expl. I agree that Derosa would be ideal. Figgins has the potential to be a G. Jefferies like signing. Never lived up to the huge contract he got. Remember that $%$#%*##? Yeah…. Exactly……

  81. Brian of CO

    November 11, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Cole NEEDS to go back to his 08 form. He can NOT pitch like he did in 09. Having said that, the start of the 2010 season is a clean slate. Now if we were able to get Doc Halladay along with Lee, Hamels Blanton and Happ with Pedro Martinez for spot starts IF they can get Pedro M at a BARGAIN price. Thats a nice pitching staff.

  82. Don M

    November 11, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    I think Lee passed his career Innings Pitched total by a good margin.. with extra playoff innings.. there is a good chance that he won’t be as good next year as he was this year

    Hamels, should be better with extra rest

  83. 2010 WF FIGHTINS'

    November 11, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    You got a point there Don. I do notice that a lot of pitchers that pitch in the WS have declined the following season. Look at the Rays rotation last year and ours for that matter. That’s why I think Ruben has to all he can to get Doc. Although I do think Lee’s work ethic/hunger for a ring will make that unlikely. Forget about Figgins/DeRosa. Go get the Doc and the 2009 WS will be all but forgotten. Just like when the Eagles signed T.O. (minus the drama).

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