Arbitration

Shane Victorino Signs Extension

Craig Calcaterra of NBC Sports is reporting that a source has told him that the Phillies and center fielder Shane Victorino have agreed to a three-year, $22 million extension.

The report continues a flurry of contract news for the Phils, who just announced the extension of pitcher Joe Blanton earlier today. Victorino, 29, hit .292/.358/.445 with 10 homers in 2009. This was his second year of arbitration eligibility.

With extension talks in progress for Carlos Ruiz, the Phillies would likely have seven of eight positional starters under contract for at least 2010 and 2011.

UPDATE, 10:10 am: The Victorino press conference will be today at Noon at Citizens Bank Park.

130 Comments

130 Comments

  1. The Dipsy

    January 21, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Wow. So there goes Jason. Just trade him now.

    The Dipsy

  2. Paul Boye

    January 21, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Interesting. Why would you look to trade Werth?

  3. The Dipsy

    January 21, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Money, Homey.

    The Dipsy

  4. John

    January 21, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Nah, trading Werth would be a bad move.

  5. PhxPhilly

    January 21, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    I just mentioned in the Blanton comments that the Phillies seem to spend about $1M/yr than I would like on these longer deals, hoping the players would give a ‘championship club’ discount.
    In the comments on the arbitration posting I proposed a 3yr $19M deal for Victorino (should have guessed 4.5, 6, 8.5). But apparently could not add since my guess came to $21M. Most likely he will get (5,7,10) which again seems like reasonable market value.

    I agree that means bye to Werth or Howard next year. Arbitrate Werth. If he accepts then they have to shop Howard. A lot will depend on Dom Brown.

  6. The Dipsy

    January 21, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Werth has no Arb.

    The Dipsy

  7. John

    January 21, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    I’m guessing Phx means offer and accept the draft picks..since Werth would be a FA

  8. Paul Boye

    January 21, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    He can be offered arbitration if he qualifies for Type A or B status, which he may yet do.

    Even so, I don’t see him accepting. But that’s a while off.

  9. John

    January 21, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    As of the end of the season Werth ended with type A ranking, so it’s almost a certainty he’ll be an A or B FA

  10. 1993 vs 2009

    January 21, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Werth is a beast with the bat and he has a cannon arm! And if he ever learns to attack that 1st pitch fastball he always seem to get along with laying off the low junk he’ll be unstoppable. I guess we’ll see what he does for an encore in 2010 1st. I do realize his trade value is white-hot right now. But this dude plays with no fear. I’d hate to see him go. Ibanez/Vic and a Werth replacement?? I don’t know about that one unless we get a helluva starting pitcher out of a potentisl trade. Remember that moon-shot he hit off Andy Pet in Game 3?

  11. Paul Boye

    January 21, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Yes, it looks like Werth is firmly entrenched in the Type A range. Barring major injury and good numbers from those behind him, he should stay there through this year.

  12. pheeling it

    January 21, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    i know everyone is hating the blanton signing, but he is a bulldog. and this team hits, all we can ask for.

    i think blanton took less to sign. now all 4 locked up through 2012

    shane at 22 for 3 year? thats great news, i jumped outta my chair just like i will all summer, hes a hell of a ball player and my best glove on the team if u ask me.

    halladay on opening day? great rotation, same team, get it back raullll and lets go phils

  13. Chuck

    January 21, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    I would have rather seen Vic traded at some point…to make room for Werth…this doesn’t look good for Jayson as a Phillie…past this year.

  14. Chuck

    January 21, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    Dipsy…
    What are your continued thoughts on that 4/45 idea for Werth..??..

    And…what now about Ryan…think we can pull off a 5/100 extension??

    Seems to me that the Phils are gonna have to choose one or the other…

    Thoughts??

  15. Griffin

    January 21, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Will Dom Brown be ready to take over RF in 2011? I’m not sure he will be.

    This means the end of Werth but I think the Phils knew that re-signing him would be impossible. At least they’ll get 2 draft picks.

  16. PhxPhilly

    January 21, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    Assuming Victorino and Ruiz make $10M total in 2011 the Phillies have ~$134M in obligations. That only includes 3 relievers (Lidge, Madson, Baez), with a $4.5M option on Romero, and Kendrick as the 5th starter.
    I do not see Werth fitting in that <$6M window.

    For this season, I estimate Ruiz and Victorino at $7M combined with Halladay cash and Jenkins, Eaton, Feliz buyouts that Phillies are at ~$138M now with an open spot for one relief pitcher.

    My 2009 estimate (with buyouts + acquisition of Cliff Lee) was ~$140M.

  17. Chuck

    January 21, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Everything I’ve heard is that Brown is to take over in LEFT…meaning that Ibanez could be traded next offseason…or if Brown isn’t ready for the beginning of the 2011 season…then Ibanez could be traded at the deadline in July 2011..

    If Ibanez is traded in the offseason…that could make room for Werth financially??

  18. Chuck

    January 21, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    If your talking 2011, then I would assume that the payroll would be a little higher than $140MM…??

  19. Mazinman

    January 21, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Before we are all ready to say good bye to Jason Werth we should keep in mind that Ruben has been really good about signing players to extensions over the last two years. Madson signed for three years when it was not expected, Howards signed, and now Blanton and Victorino.

    What Ruben can do next year if offer Werth a contract with a low pay figure for the first year and then increasing his pay in the following ones. That way we turn part of what we are currently paying Ibanez into a raise for Werth then bring in Brown to replace Ibanez.

    Hey I can try to be optimistic right?

  20. Griffin

    January 21, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    This is why I wouldn’t have given Ibanez that 3rd year, but that’s a whole other story.

    I think both of today’s signings are solid.

  21. The Dipsy

    January 21, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    Hey, maybe Werth will be the one that’s signed and Howard goes. That would not be out of the question, IMO. Look at it this way. The total cost of the remaining salary problems guys for this year is:

    Werth 7m
    Howard 19m
    Ibanez 12.7m

    So that’s 33.7m. If Jason would sign a 4/45 extension and Ryan would take a 3/66 extension, then 2011 could look like this, when Ibanez drops off: (God, if we could just trade Ibanez for ANYTHING, we could probably sign them both. Hell, trade him for a prospect and sign Dye for 4 mill or whatever.)

    Werth 10m
    Howard 22m
    Dominic Brown $400,000 or whatever.

    That 32.5. Does it seem doable? I think so. Shane took a really low number. So did Blanton. I think altogether the Phils saved about 7-9m combined between the two contracts. Work your magic Ruben.

    The Dipsy

  22. Don M

    January 21, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    This doesn’t even definitely effect Werth..

    The payroll has gone up each of the past 5 seasons or so… I’d imagine it will increase next year as well

    There is a chance Domomic Brown is ready for the Majors next year, and with Ibanez in the final year of his deal, the Phillies could look to move him to an AL team in the offseason

    Also.. Victorino’s extension just clears up the arbitration situation.. you would imagine he would get AT LEAST .. $5-6 M this year, $7-8 M next year, if he were still arbitration eligable.. now he’s locked up longer, and you know the exact amount. Teams LOVE knowing their payroll in advance, AND they love not dealing with arbitration.. which is why so many players are inked to 2-3 year deals that buy out arbitration + a year or two of Free Agency

    Great moves today if the Blanton and Victorino things are really done-deals

  23. Don M

    January 21, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    Griffin.. again …. if you didn’t give Ibanez that 3rd year.. he probably doesn’t sign here. And without him in the 1st half last year, we would’ve been behind in the NL EAST .. who knows about a playoff appearance again??

    Phillies can’t just walk around and play “hardball” with every Free Agent.. they need to come to an agreement. there were like 7 teams interested in Ibanez last year, and the Phillies made sure they got the guy that fit this team/lineup best . I would say they made the right decision with Ibanez

  24. Tom

    January 21, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    The way the phils are attacking these arbitration eligible players with contract extensions is showing a commitment to the “core” of this team. With the exception of Howard, Werth is the only one needed to lock up. Don’t forget moyer will be off the books to help ease the impact of what Jason is gonna be getting. They can’t roll the dice and hope that Brown could fill his shoes quickly. Plus the phils with this “price limit” they have on the franchise is total bs! Merchandise alone off of the Halladay items could pay to keep Werth here! My prediction some point this season, Jason gets locked up and hopefully they can persuade Ryan into taking some sort of discount to stay with a true contender…

  25. The Dipsy

    January 21, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    Don – If Ibanez doesn’t sign here last year we still win the divison. He did nothing the second half of the season. AND we would be 30somethingmillion richer.

    The Dipsy

  26. Tom

    January 21, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Another thing the oranization fails to always add to their money situation is ticket sales raising every year and more and more sell outs each season. Also, don’t forget you receive money for postseason appearances. If the phils come out and say to the fan base, “tickets are being raised $2-4 to help sign players…..” would I be the only one to be on board with that? I know that’ll never happen…..but one can dream…

  27. jrollpatrol08

    January 21, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    wow alot goin on today…i like the blanton deal better, to be honest. i really really thought/wanted the phils would go year to year with victorino, just to see where they stand with jwerth next offseason. if werth walks, THEN sign victorino to the 3year 22-24mil deal. if werth stays, phils have plenty of cheap OF alternatives with the speed attribute of victorino. i like the guy, but his skills are easier to replace than those of werth. but i guess we shall see…i mean i really think this adds fuel to the argument that howard probably wont resign here after his current deal is over. and that sucks. ps–howard, being 32 at the end of this contract, i think we would be lookin more like 100mil for 4 years, not 5. if another team in the AL offers him 5 he ll prob change cities

  28. pheeling it

    January 21, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    ibanez is a great ball player, better than pat the bat and he was my favorite in the vet days. i went to the citi field foggy 10th inning game, sat in utleys corner and was hoping he’d end it but raul grooved that one justtt out of the park. great game, great to rub it in my mets cousins faces. we got a ring! i was yelling it, 2009 was a great year, 2010 WE LOOK SO MUCH BETTER!

  29. jrollpatrol08

    January 21, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    nobody is gonna take a 38 year old making 12mil per season. raul ibanez is here till the end of the contract. i see his production noticibly decreasing by early/mid of 2011, which is when brown would be definitely ready for MLB action

  30. Chuck

    January 21, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    Dipsy..I disagree..

    Ibanez helped this team last year to win the division…I’m not sure how it would have looked with out him..
    ____

    I would assume as well that Ibanez is moved if Brown is ready to take over in left.

  31. Tom

    January 21, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    Just a thought……depending on what Pujols does with the cards, that could me a model for what Howard could do with us.

  32. Chuck

    January 21, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    jrollpatroll08…

    By mid 2011…if Brown is ready…THAT’S when Ibanez is moved…maybe to an AL team..

    We get what we can for him…and thank him for his services as a Phillie.

  33. Jeff of Nova

    January 21, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    yeah them dropping Moyer after this year will free up a lot of money going toward Werth’s signing

  34. Chuck

    January 21, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    Let’s say Ibanez is traded next offseason…that frees up…what?…$11.5 Mil

    Moyer…6.5

    That’s $18 million available for guys like Werth, etc..

  35. deitz

    January 21, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Backloaded contract to Werth, say 10,15,15,15 and the all important Amaro year 15. $3.00 avg ticket increase=10million. 150 million budget going forward. Brown plays extra year in minors ( that’s their style anyway). Brown takes over for Ibanez in 2012. Ibanez and Lidge walk after 2011 freeing up enough for raises to Howard, Werth, Hamels, maybe even Rollins. Or hope Ibanez has a good year, brown is ready and trade ibanez to an AL team to play LF/DH. Phils still might have to eat 4-5mill though. What becomes a problem is if Brown is not ready, or age catches up with ibanez making him untradeable and 140mill is the budget ceiling going forward. Now they might be forced to trade Howard.

  36. 1993 vs 2009

    January 21, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    We can’t convien. take bits and pieces of one player’s numbers and combine them with another former player. Simply makes no sense. Pat the Bat stay here was over. Period. RAUUL was a demi-god here who was well on his way to the NL MVP until the injury. Ibanez did not have a history of getting hurt before signing w/Phils. As some one mentioned earlier, no way Ibanez comes here for less than three years. He would’ve ended up as a NY Met otherwise. Now that’s a thought! Ibanez, Beltran(i know about his injury) and Jason Bay all Muttts. I personally think the Phils should’ve given him an abrab deal of 9-10mill. High yes, but may have saved Phils a cool 14=15mill. This will be the 2nd straight season Blanton and the other starters (minus Roy) will be pitching following a short off-season. Not complaining because it meant we made it back to the WS, but it could have an effect. I like Blanton. I hope he pitches well and he probably will. But after Eaton and now Lidge and Moyer, I’m very skpt. of more potential dead weight pitchers on the payroll. I really hope he doesn’t become that.

  37. 1993 vs 2009

    January 21, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    And wear do the Phillies go get a starting LF fielder good for 25-30hrs & 90+ rbi for $10mill in 2011?? Let’s give Ibanez a chance to play healthy again before we bury him alive. No way some kid fresh up from the farm puts up those kinda numbers… Not even close…

  38. WFC010

    January 21, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    I just pray the Phillies can work something out with Werth, and it’s still possible that they may. The Phillies took him in when everyone else had given up on him, took a chance and turned him into one of the BEST all around outfielders playing in the game today. There’s a fair chance that Werth realizes this as well, and it could influence him to try and stay here.

  39. Tom

    January 21, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    Great call wfc…..let’s hope his conscience plays a big role in his decision come the time

  40. Andrew

    January 21, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    No championship team ever keeps all thier players. It isnt even common sense to keep them. Werth reminds me alot of Rowand. i love him great for the team etc etc but I could see another team grossly over paying him which means he will have to go. Trade Ibanez? No one else wants that contract.
    Two thumbs up for the victorino deal. His glove alone is worth the money.

  41. 1993 vs 2009

    January 21, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    We gotta keep this dude here… Howard w/o Werth hitting behind him would not be a good situation….

  42. 1993 vs 2009

    January 21, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    Please don’t compare Rowand to Jason Werth…. Werth is a rock star with 45hr potential…

  43. Geoff

    January 21, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    Great signing. Along with Blanton. They made great strides today to shore up the team in key areas for some time to come. Next is Ruiz…I would have to think that Jayson Werth is 100% gone though, as they will go with someone young – Brown or Gillies – at that position when he leaves. Theyve got a LOT of money tied up and theyre going to try and save somewhere…

    For now though. I love locking up Victorino and Blanton.

  44. 1993 vs 2009

    January 22, 2010 at 12:05 am

    It seems like they’re kinda bleeping up this potential Dynasty to me…. Ruben said we’re trying to win for yrs to come??? Windows can close very quickly…. Werth/Howard one is probably gone may be be both. Are they secreting cloning them.?

  45. George

    January 22, 2010 at 3:26 am

    I’m not sure Werth is gone. Some money comes off for 2011, mostly Moyer, and in 2012 Ibanez is no longer under contract. A back loaded deal with Werth is still possible. The contracts for Victorino and Blanton aren’t all that high. The team would have to pay SOMEBODY to take their places, and all the recent “somebodies”–and a slew of “nobodies,” have been signing for the same amount or more.

    Re-signing Howard could be doable, too. He’s making $19 million now, so $3-4 million more/year isn’t impossible. It depends, of course on how much middle relievers and bench players cost, and how a contract is structured.

    So far, Amaro seems to know what he’s doing. I didn’t expect multi-year deals for Vic or especially Blanton. The Victorino terms haven’t been released yet, but the terms of the Blanton deal were far better than I could have imagined. With the constant increase in free-agent salaries, these two may look like real bargains in 2012, and a bargain is always good trade bait just in case.

    Tom: Whatever Pujols signs for means absolutely nothing when considering Howard or anyone else. Pujols is in a class by himself and will be paid as such.

  46. Brian Sr. of CO

    January 22, 2010 at 5:38 am

    The Dipsy was definately sleeping the first half of the season. Like it or not, second half slump or not, Ibanez was a beast in the first half of the season, and one of the biggest reason we had such a substantial lead going into the All Star break was Ibanez. When Howard Utley and Rollins were sleeping the first half of the season, Ibanez was carrying the team. Lets just concentrate on Vic for now, when the other players come up, lets see what they do. I for one was surprised when the signed Howard for the amount of money they did. I couldnt believe they actually spent money. They may surprise us again with Werth or Howard. I dont think this definately knocks Werth out any more then what his contract demands probably will be anyway. If they went to Arbitration and he won, Vic would have gotten 5.8. Thats not that much of a difference between the 7.3 (average per year) and 5.8 to say Werth is gone any more than what Werth is probably going to want, but does anyone really know what Werth will want/ask for/demand/settle for? I doubt it. I also think that George brought up a great point about Moyers contract is up this year and Ibanez next. That does free up money, and if they say Brown is ready for Left, that sounds to me, they have the intention to keep Werth (if possible) and letting Ibanez walk after his contract. The question will be will they possibly over extend themselves for a year to keep this wicked team intact for the next few years.

  47. bfo_33

    January 22, 2010 at 7:02 am

    Still working this one out in my head. I am absolutely convinced that the Phils knew they could sign Blanton to a three year deal when they traded Lee. 3 years of Blanton at a reasonable price is worth more than 1 yr of Lee (one year of each, Lee is certainly worth more).
    A big part of me thinks that Shane is replaceable. He’s fast, with a canon arm, but he really isn’t a great defensive outfielder (reminds me a lot of Jim Edmonds in the field, gets a poor jump, takes bad lines, then recovers due to straight speed, gets the web gem, where Andruw Jones in his prime made the same play look easy). With that said, he makes the play.
    He gets on base, but falls into periods of bad plate discipline, gets lost for a week a few times a year. When he has to go from one side to the other during a game, he is an easy out.
    Seems like they overpaid. On the other hand, the only comparable centerfielders are Sizemore (who had a bad year on a bad team) and Kemp (Beltran has better skills, but who knows how much he’s going to play, plus he doesn’t seem to like baseball very much).
    A three year deal at a reasonable price also makes him easier to trade next season if Brown is ready (we saw this year that even a stud like Lee is tough to trade when there is only 1 year left on a contract).
    It appears to be a solid deal, but personally I would have gone after Werth first. My guess is they have already put feelers out there with Werth, and either are in progress on something, or are too far apart to continue.

  48. mikemike

    January 22, 2010 at 7:33 am

    DIPSY IBANEZ CARRIED THE TEAM IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE SEASON. I do believe the victorino signing is a sign that they will let werth go, they do need to get some kids to help them, the main concern that I have with brown is, he is not a good outfielder, and doesnt hit for power, to project him to be your left fielder or right you will lose a lot of power there. They must find a starter from the minors to take moyers place .to have any chance to sign howard.

  49. mikemike

    January 22, 2010 at 7:35 am

    Jim edmonds wasnt a great center fielder, did y say that?? shane isnt a top defensive outfielder? did you say that??????? or maybe I MISREAD

  50. The Dipsy

    January 22, 2010 at 8:18 am

    YES! Ibanez had a tremendous first half of the season. I like Raul. Not at 12.6m. To me, if you’re getting paid that kinda money, you gotta be more than just a pro hitter. Poor fielder, poor speed. But he can hit. Love him at 7.5, hate him at 12.5. And he’ 37, 38? He’s sucking up payroll. And by the way, Jim Edmonds was a GREAT outfielder. Shane is a good one, too. An Amaro mistake in a thicket of successes.

    The Dipsy

  51. Brook

    January 22, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Mike, he did say that…
    I’m supposing that bfo rates defense differently than the GG selection team. As a matter of fact, perhaps bfo has a system we all should be using. Shane has 2 GG’s 2008 & 09.
    ??

  52. erik

    January 22, 2010 at 8:45 am

    There has been a little talk about Vic’s defense and his going on cold streaks at the plate, thus leading to some minor complaints about this deal. “Trade Victorino” talk has been rampant on this site. Stats are stats, and this man led the team in BA last year and was third in runs scored. Not to mention back to back Gold Glove awards. I think his deal is an absolute STEAL.

  53. mikemike

    January 22, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Have no problem with victorino deal. Blanton deal is okay if he isnt counted on to be a two. As a fourth or fifth starter he eats innings, but dont think he is anything special, but in todays market 8 million for a starter isnt a lot.

  54. Griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Can we stop the “Mets were going to sign Ibanez if the Phillies didn’t give him the third year” nonsense?

    If the Mets wanted an OF last year, they would have signed Dunn or Abreu (who had to settle for $5 mil). The Phils signed Amaro early and misread the market.

    And no team is going to take a 38 year-old Ibanez making an absurd $11.5 mil in 2011 unless the Phils eat at least half of it.

  55. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Can we all just stop with talking about how much Amaro “overpaid” for Ibanez…

    At the time….that’s what it took to get him here…and so far…he really hasn’t disappointed… now has he??

    Most likely by next offseason…or by the 2011 trading deadline…he’s gonna be gone anyway…assuming Brown is ready????

    So that $12.whatever million is either completely off the books for next year..or partially so if he’s gone by the deadline…

  56. Tom

    January 22, 2010 at 9:37 am

    George: there is no comparisson to Albert but if you were going to arbitration with Ryan who do u think his attorney makes a correlation to? Granted Ryan has only one MVP to pujols 3, but he does have a sliver slugger,rookie of the year and two all star appearances to go with his 222 hr and a slug%.586 and an ops around .961 but I guess that’s not good enough to have even the slightest relationship between him and Albert made. Btw 08 Howard 2nd in MVP votes and 09 he was 3rd. Again he’s not Albert, but c’mon he’s our version! And if he keeps improving his d why would u just let him walk?

  57. Manny

    January 22, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Ibanez is a career .290 hitter, with power… strong work ethic, good clubhouse presence… he was batting behind Howard for a good part of the season and he produced despite the L-L-L… He will come back strong this year, no questions asked.

    Victorino deal: It seems like a good deal… and at 7.5M per year he can be traded later on if the Phillies need to. Though as the days go by, I think it’s way more likely now that we stay with Werth + Vic + Ibanez, with Ibanez being replaced by Brown sometime during 2011. We should go after Werth before he hits FA…and then that would only leave Howard on the negotiation table. He’ll have a whole All-Star team to play with, he’ll decide if he wanna stays or not. Don’t forget he already has a multi-year, million dollar contract… so it’s not like this is his only chance to get a huge paycheck.

  58. bfo_33

    January 22, 2010 at 9:44 am

    GG is the worst indicator of good defense (re Derek Jeter, looks like David Bell out there,not sure he can tie his shoes anymore). I’m not saying that Vic is a bad centerfielder, and I think this is decent signing. All I’m saying is the talk of his defense is based on web gems, not day to day playing.
    Look up his zone rating. 2006 was his best fielding year, and he has dropped every year since. Same for range rating. Look up the stats, he is an average CF(can find them at any number of sites, fangraph is pretty easy to navigate). Don’t believe in the stats? While not perfect, they are a whole lot better than GG voting.
    The whole point is that going from Vic to Werth (or other replacement options) would not be a defensive disaster. If you are pinning this signing strictly on defense, it is a bad one. On the whole, what Vic brings: the energy, decent stick, gets on base, it is a solid signing.

  59. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Eating half of it would still clear half off the books.. so its still a doable contract

    Dipsy.. you are way smarter and way more knowledgable on the Phillies to say something along the lines of Ibanez didn’t carry the Phillies last year

    He got hurt, and slowed down his production, but without him in the first half.. we would’ve had to battle like crazy.. probably never make the Lee deal, etc..


    Who is counting on Blanton to be a #2 ?
    He’s most likely #3-4 depending on Happ’s season… and even at #3-4 he’s better than what pretty much every other team in NL would throw out there in that spot .. for $8 M he’s a great contract

  60. The Dipsy

    January 22, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Chuck – C’mon with your “at the time” thing, please. “At the time” I thought it was a good idea to give myself a mohawk. “At the time” I thought that girl was good looking. “At the time” Hitler thought it was a good idea to invade Poland (he marched in backwards and told everybody he was leaving). “At the time” in Ibanez’s case happened to be the wrong time and as one of the previous callers indicated, Ruben misread the market.

    Ruben has a specific M.O. it seems when it comes to signing players. He sees one that he likes; stalks from afar; then swoops in early with a contract offer. He sees his man, he signs his man. SOMETIMES, and the Ibanez case is an example, it does not serve him well. In that particular year, he could have waited and gotten just as good a player at half the price. The Cubs and Phils misread and the Cubs paid off Milton Bradley (wince). In the vast majority of cases, Ruben has been fantastic. In the Ibanez case he wasn’t. I would think that a “capped” team like the Phils would sometimes, depending on the availability of players and what position they are looking for, try to wait out the market a little, let thinks shake out, and do a little bargain hunting.

    Does this make Ruben a bad GM? No. He’s a good one. Did he make a mistake? Yes.

    The Dipsy

  61. Griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Dipsy, I totally agree. Amaro isn’t terrible, but he made a mistake in giving Ibanez the 3rd year.

    If the Ibanez contract is so great, why is everyone in this blog trying to trade him after 2010?

  62. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Victorino to Werth, wouldn’t be a disaster by any means… but it would be a defensive downgrade

  63. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 10:06 am

    The Ibanez contract was “great” because it landed Ibanez… who carried our team in the first half of last season, and enabled us to take a lead in the NL EAST …. which we would later go on and win … which got us into the playoffs … and onto the World Series

    Why is this hard to understand?

    Would you rather have a professional hitter, who AL teams will want as a DH if you ever feel the need to trade him ….. or Pat Burrell/defensive replacement playing LF every game?

    I know for a fact that Burrell wouldn’t have carried the team the way Ibanez did

    How else should Amaro have targeted ??? (Abreu isn’t a legit answer since he didn’t ever help this team win a thing… and doesn’t fit into our clubhouse at all)

  64. bfo_33

    January 22, 2010 at 10:08 am

    In a cc that doesn’t involve me much. Just listening for my name. Too early to call the Ibanez signing a mistake. I like the way Ruben approaches things – looks for the guy that is the right fit, and signs him. Does that mean he is going to overpay from time to time? Sure, but it is far better than overpaying for a second choice less than ideal fit.
    Gillick was great, but had his share of misses. Ruben has had one overpay in Moyer, a few others that are undecided, but hasn’t made any brutal signings that killed the budget (no Pavano, Eaton,….). In his short tenure, he’s the best Phils GM since Dallas Green. Looking forward to 2010 and beyond.

  65. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Things are great here in Phillies-land if people are trying to make arguements as to why one of 2009’s best Free Agent signings may not have been a good one..

    I hope all the people who hate the Blanton, Ibanez, Victorino, Polanco deals all stay home from the park this season.. while the rest of us go down and watch them dominate the National League again

  66. Griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Amaro should have targeted Ibanez…and offered a 2 year deal. No other team would have matched. Adam Dunn had to settle for a 2-year deal for less money and go to Washington.

    And before you say “Adam Dunn strikes out a ton”, check out his 2009. He was better than Ibanez. (Dunn had a .928 OPS and Ibanez had a .899 OPS despite playing in a hitters’ park)

  67. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 10:14 am

    If you’re somehow trying to compare Ibanez to Milton Bradley…don’t even try…it’s not even close..

    And… AT THE TIME…with Ibanez’s services being indemand from several teams….it took a 3 year 30 something million contract to get him here….and I’m sorry about it..

    Remember…most people were on board ….after the 2008 season….all caught up in emotion…most people (including myself) were ready to hand Pat Burrell a three year deal worth 39 million (minimun)….

    So what looks good now? Ibanez…a CLEAR upgrade over Pat…for less money than what Burrell would have cost…or would you have wanted Pat Burrell back.??

    If you think Raul Ibanez’ contract is an albatross…just imagine what it would look like if we were paying Pat Burrell all that money….and him being in WORSE physical shape than Ibanez.

  68. Griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Don M, let’s not get carried away. Admitting Amaro made a mistake does not make someone ungrateful for the team we have.

  69. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Clarification: I’m NOT sorry about it.

  70. PRD

    January 22, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Holliday, Bay, Ibanez, Werth, Pick who you want? The cheapest of the group got 3 years 39 mil. for age 37-39 seasons. I think Werth with his speed, defense and playing RF is better then Bay. That puts his price-tag in at least 4 years $65 mil price range (assuming he has another good year this year) on the open market. The only way they bring him back is if they trade one of their other big pieces and I don’t see that happening.

  71. Manny

    January 22, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Ask anyone in the baseball world and I can guarantee you that if you ask them for the best FA signings from last year, they’ll mention Raul in a heartbeat.

    How can anyone call the Ibanez signing a bad one? ESPECIALLY AFTER ALL HE DID IN 2009!??

    It blows my mind.

  72. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 10:32 am

    But I don’t understand what the mistake was??

    Targeting the player that best fits your team, and then signing him before other competing teams do ??

    Its not like he’s making Soriano or Jason Bay money… IF IF IF the Phillies wanted to move him.. there would definitely be interested teams

    but since he helps us win games, and we don’t have a better option right now, he’ll stay in LF, and help us win again this year.. at the cost of

    He was an absolute STEAL last year at $7 M

    and for $11.5 M the next two season, I wouldn’t say that he’s tremendously overpaid at all … Look at his production instead of his birthdate

  73. Griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Signing Raul Ibanez wasn’t a mistake. Giving Ibanez the 3rd year was a mistake. The fact that everyone in here wants to trade Ibanez before 2011 proves that.

    How can Ibanez be “the signing of the year” when Dunn had a better year for less money?

  74. Ed R.

    January 22, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Hence forth can it be written into law that the 3rd year of any contract be known exclusively as the “Amaro Year”?

    Thank you.

  75. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 10:39 am

    So if Brown isn’t ready to play in the Majors.. and/or if Werth decides its best for his family to test the Free Agent market next season

    Having Raul Ibanez still here, at $11.5 M is a mistake???

    I wouldn’t say that everyone WANTS to trade Ibanez.. we’re all just looking at possibilities..

    There is a decent chance that Brown is ready for the majors next year.. so you would take a $400,000 player in LF instead an $11.5 M player… IF Ibanez can get you some decent prospets in return

    Adam Dunn had a nice year… wouldn’t have helped our team though because he isn’t a contact hitter, and he played MOSTLY 1b last year

    Ibanez struck out less, and plays better defense in the position that we needed.. Left Field …. we should compare Apples-to-Apples

  76. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 10:41 am

    I’m not saying …nor is anyone else….that I WANT to trade Ibanez before 2011…

    But that COULD happen…and maybe SHOULD….IF Brown is ready to take over….

    Ibanez will still have trade value

    IF that happens…we simply get what we can from him…thank him for what he contributed as a Phillie…and wish him well

    How is that WANTING to trade him???

  77. Ed R.

    January 22, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Dunn may have had a better year offensively, but he did not miss time due to injury. And, he is possibly the worst defensive player in all of baseball. In the OF or at 1B.

    Was Ibanez’s contract somewhat of a bad contract? Probably. Amaro paid more and gave out a contract longer than it probably should have been. But I don’t think it is really fair to make a judgement on the contract yet. Ibanez far exceed his salary last year, and that was with missing time due to injury and having a miserable second half. For what he is being paid, if he can put up numbers like he did last year, but spaced out over the course of the year then I would consider it another successful season. Now, if after two years of good seasons Ibanez totally blows in the last year of his contract then feel free to say that his signing was bad. But at this point it wasn’t. Not yet. Ibanez has done nothing but prove that he deserved the contract he got.

  78. Ed R.

    January 22, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Actually I will go on record as saying I would like the Phillies to trade Ibanez after next season. It is the only possible way for the Phillies to have a chance at resigning Werth.

    Trade Ibanez for prospects to an AL team so he can DH. Replace his 11.5 mil salary with Brown’s 400,000k and there is roughly 11 mil you can use to resign Werth. Back load the crap out of his contract if you can so that you have a little more flexibility going into 2011 but that is the only way you are going to get Werth to stay.

  79. griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Don M, Dunn can play LF (albeit terribly) so comparing his contract to Ibanez’s is apples to apples.

    More importantly, the Mets just traded for Gary Matthews Jr. Now THAT is a terrible contract! Sarge Jr. is due 23 mil over the next 2 years and is nothing more than a 5th OF. If the Mets are paying anything more than 2 mil of his salary, then this is a terrible move for them.

    Moves like this make me realize how awesome it is to be a Phils fan!

  80. Jeff of Nova

    January 22, 2010 at 10:48 am

    This has nothing to do with Jayson in fact this and Blanton signing helps the chances of Jayson resigning.

    If they go to arbitration I am sure Victorino wins and maybe even Blanton.
    Next year they will have to pay even more. This way they control how much more next year now.

    If they trade Ibanez or not is irrelevant, they have Moyer off the books after this year. That will save money

    Ruben has done a fantastic job this off season resigning this team for several years. If we can win it all again I would say executive of the year!!

  81. Ed R.

    January 22, 2010 at 10:58 am

    See I don’t know that this signing means that Werth is more likely to come back. Yes the Phillies will save some money with the deals they made to Blanton, Victorino, and what will come with Ruiz’s contract, I am thinking 3 years at 12-14 mil. But and this is a big but, I am talking Jennifer Lopez butt… but Moyer’s 6.5 off the books is easily eaten up by the increases that will go to Howard and Hamels, as well as whatever goes to Francisco and Happ in arbitration. So you can pretty much kiss that 6.5 goodbye, you can’t count that as 6.5 mil that will be able to be used towards Werth. The only way we can free up enough money to try and keep Werth is to trade Ibanez. Period.

  82. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 10:58 am

    He CAN play LF .. but he’s a nightmare, which is why they played him at 1b more often……. with less range than Pat Burrell, I would imagine that Dunn is a 1b-DH for the remainder of his career

    Sarge Jr…is a decent 5th OF option.. who should make slightly above the league minimum, instead, he makes MILLIONS of DOLLARS

    His Agent must be the best in the business

  83. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Trading Ibanez after this season is great…and will work….but ONLY if Brown is ready..

    If you start the season (2011) with Ibanez in left….and maybe trade him by the deadline (allowing for Brown to come up and get ready)…that’s not the worst scenario either.

    Let’s not prematurely criticize all these “third years”…Ibanez, Polanco…until we actually see what the third year holds.

  84. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 11:05 am

    People are quick to assume that just because Ruben signs someone to a third year…that it’s automatically a bad move..

  85. griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 11:05 am

    I think Omar Minaya is doing a terrific job and I hope the Mets keep him for a long, long time.

  86. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Howard makes $19 M this season.. $20 M next season .. not a big jump at all

    Not sure what Utley or Hamels makes as in increase next year though

    I don’t think Vic’s deal makes a Werth extension MORE LIKELY.. but people yesterday were saying things along the lines of “Well that means Werth is gone..”

    which isn’t the case at all.. they realize they need him in the lineup. . .

  87. The Dipsy

    January 22, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Chuck – Under your premise, I banez should have been signed at almost any price. I don’t recall teams banging down Ibanez’s door to sign him to big money and big years last year. If I’m wrong correct me. So Chuck, lets say that Amaro signed Ibanez to a 3y/45m deal. He “carried” us the first half last year and you are of the opinion, which I respectfully don’t share, that we wouldn’t not have won the divison without him. If this is correct, would Ruben have done the right thing by giving him 15m a year?

    The Dipsy

  88. Ed R.

    January 22, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Hamels contract goes up by 2.8 mil. Rollins and Utley do not have a contract increase. But again, you have Happ and Frisco going to ARB so that is an increase there of at least .5 to 1 mil each.

  89. Ed R.

    January 22, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Dipsy…I don’t think anyone had a chance to bang down Ibanez’s door. Amaro signed him pretty much when FA started. Amaro set his own market rather than waiting for the market to develop, had he done so, Ibanez would have obviously come cheaper.

  90. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Ibanez would have obviously cheaper …

    OR NOT AT ALL

    He was the best fit for this team.. so bitch if you want, but Amaro got a difference maker, and the best piece to help complete the Phillies puzzle


    Dipsy.. Chuck’s arguement aside .. . .

    You Don’t Think Ibanez carried the team in the 1st half ??

    There was talk of Ibanez as MVP for a good while last year… without him I don’t know that we runaway with the NL EAST last year.. and I think we only won by 5 games ? Clearly, everyone played a role.. but Ibanez in the 1st half, was just as valuable (if not more) than Howard in the 2nd half

  91. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 11:50 am

    This from ESPN.com, dated December12, 2008…Jayson Stark is the writer:

    “Ibanez had drawn significant interest from a number of teams including the Cubs, Mets, Angels and Braves. But he had been sending signals through friends that the Phillies were his first choice. And the Phillies stepped up their efforts to sign him Thursday after it became known that the Angels were also negotiating the parameters of a deal
    with Ibanez as their No. 1 alternative if they lost out in efforts to sign Mark Texiera.”

    Ok…so how does that NOT seem like teams were “banging down Ibanez’ door”..

    It’s obvious that he was in demand and would have been paid AT LEAST what the Phillies paid him…maybe by the Angels….so is Ruben wrong for going out and getting his guy??..

    If Ruben waits….Ibanez could have been gone…maybe, maybe not….and maybe or maybe we don’t get off to the start we did last year…if we didn’t have him..

    Dipsy..to respond to your “Ibanez should have been signed at almost any price” comment….I don’t recall anybody on here suggesting that he be signed for “almost any price.”

    There are limits…and I think Ruben knows that…

    He considered what teams like the Angels may have been willing to pay Raul…and made him an offer to play here….and he hasn’t disappointed yet.

  92. The Dipsy

    January 22, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Thanks Chuck. I stand corrected. Perhaps I am a bit jaded by the awful second half he had and I have a short memory. Good player no doubt, just a bit pricey. IMO.

    The Dipsy

  93. George

    January 22, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Tom: No matter if Howard has won an MVP, there is still no comparison. No matter what his agent says, there is no comparison. Owners, scouts, managers, and fans all know that. Pujols will get A-rod money, and be the better bargain.

    Howard is a great player, but doesn’t even come close to Pujols on defense or batting average. He strikes out way more times. Pujols is of another world, Howard isn’t.

    Finally, please reread my post. NOWHERE did I even hint that I’d let Howard walk; in fact I suggested that the Phils might even be able to re-sign him.

  94. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    I’m hearing no chance on a Werth extension ….

    so can Phillies Nation organize a petition to resign Jayson Werth??

    Between the website, and Facebook .. I’m guessing we can get a couple THOUSAND people to let Amaro know we want him to stay in pinstripes!!!

  95. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Let’s start that “4/45 Chant”

  96. George

    January 22, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Three year contracts can’t be evaluated until that third year, or until the player either falls apart or maybe gets trade for more than expected.

    I really have no qualms about three year deals. If the player fizzles in that final year, your not out a whole lot. It’s those 5-7 year jobs that I think are stupid. What happens if Holliday starts to crumble in his third year? The Cards are still on the hook for more. Or look at people like Mike Hampton, Vernon Wells, or Darren Driefort, or, yes, that new Met, Gary Matthews Jr.

    Moyer for two years isn’t even all that bad. He won 12 games last year, and proved mighty reliable in relief of Martinez. He may still have a good year in him. $6.5 million 12 game winners don’t exactly grow on trees, even with good run support.

    Amaro isn’t stupid. Compared with many GMs, the contracts he offers are conservative.

  97. Stuart

    January 22, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    I hope we can find a way to get Werth and Howard. I know it is un likely but in my eyes both of those guys are irreplaceable. Just look at all the times they won it late in the game or carried the team. The one thing we have going for us is both of those guys love playing in Philly. Maybe we can get some kind of discount.

  98. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    4 years, $45 M might not cut it …. other teams have made whispers

    Red Sox and Angels among others

  99. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    I think the Yankees will set their sights on pitching again… Lee to match with Sabathia .. . .

    I wonder if the Mets will try to improve their rotation, or if they would be interested in an everyday player like Werth

    Reyes, Werth, Beltran, Wright, Bay… wouldn’t matter who else they had.. but it would be expensive

  100. The Dipsy

    January 22, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    The way Howard and Werth can get done, in my mind, is if the Phils make sure they have a guy making 425,000 in left. If Ibanez’s replacement is Brown, then thats 12m dollars more a year that you can spread amongst Jason and Ryan because Brown makes zilch. Yet, something tells me that Ruben has a pretty good idea that one of these guys will not be able to be resigned or he would not have signed Victorino.

    The Dipsy

  101. psujoe

    January 22, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    I think it’s a pretty straight forward situation. Some of Ibanez’s money will go to lock Down Werth. The remainder of Ibanez’s money + Lidges money will go to lock down Howard if Howard is priced reasonably. What is reasonable, I don’t know. Should be enough left over with Romero’s 4 to sign a good closer.

  102. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    That crossed my mind last night as well when the Vic news broke…

    I DO find it hard to imagine the Phillies being able to afford BOTH Werth and Howard…AND the fact that Victorino was signed….maybe that spells the end for Werth??

    I don’t know…I mean…you could spin this a whole bunch of different ways…and come up with different results…

    I would agree that in order for Werth to be a part of the equation….Brown has to be ready.

  103. psujoe

    January 22, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    If Jason puts up similar numbers to last year i think it’s take more than 4/45.

  104. psujoe

    January 22, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Even if Brown isn’t ready I would sign Werth. I would rather have Werth, Victorino and Fransisco or FA than Ibanez, Victorino, Francisco or FA.

  105. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    I’ll be pissed, because i really DO NOT LIKE Victorino all that much… I tolerate him because he’s on the Phillies.. if he was on another team we would despise him

    And Werth is one of my favorite players, along with Rollins…

  106. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    4/45 was a number that was thrown out there by somebody about a week ago…

    It probably DOES take more than that…especially with the Bay signing…

    And can somebody please tell me why a team would pay Gary Mathews, Jr over 10 million a year?? … Makes the Ibanez signing seem CHEAP…..and Ruben a complete GENIUS.

  107. bfo_33

    January 22, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    This is Werth’s shot at a big contract. He seems to like Philly, and appreciates the org, but I don’t see him giving up the op for a big contract, and I can’t blame him. Howard (along with Pujols) is perceived as being one of the clean post PED power guys. In the right AL park as a DH (Fenway, Yankee Stadium) with line-up protection, he has a shot at breaking 61, holding the “clean” HR King title. Neither the Yanks or Red Soxs have a lot of power from the left side, and are going to make it very tough on the Phils FO. I will enjoy them while they are here, but don’t see either extending their contracts.
    Mets need speed, pitching, defense to win at home (I think the play of Citifield caught them by surprise). Makes the signing of Bay all the more confusing to me. I would be very surprised to see Omar and Manuel make it to the all-star break.

  108. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Victorino is an immature baby….who’s gotten away with a lot….BECAUSE he’s a decent player… and the ladies and kids love him…he’s “dynamic” I guess..??

    Personally, I wouldn’t care all that much if he wasn’t here, either.

  109. Ed R.

    January 22, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    You never know, they could have signed Victorino for 3 years with the idea in their mind that they might trade him heading into year 3 and allow Giles to replace him. Now I have no idea whether Giles would be ready by then. Some say yes, some say no. But it is a thought.

  110. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    The Mets are looking like the worst run franchise in baseball ….

    Sarge Jr… and you’re paying $21 M for him over the next two seasons?????

    Thank God they are in the NL EAST so we have one less team to worry about this season


    Werth’s camp feels he’s better all around than Jason Bay … I agree with that

    In the beginning of the offseason, I suggested he would be slated between Holliday and Bay if he were a Free Agent this year instead of next..

    Between him and Carl Crawford. . . there is a decent mix of guys out there next year too. i think Brad Hawpe and some others.. so maybe that will bring his value down

  111. Ed R.

    January 22, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Actually from what I have read the Mets are only going to be paying about 2-3 mil a year for him. The Halo’s are paying most of his salary just to get him out of the clubhouse. Yep, that is the type of guy I would want to bring in. A stud defensive CF who has shown once in his career that he can actually hit, has injury issues, is aging oh and apparently is miserable when he doesn’t get to play. Meanwhile he was brought in to fill the void in CF until Beltran is back from injury.

    The Mets are every bit the mess that their nickname says they are.

  112. bfo_33

    January 22, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Mets are rumored to be only paying $3M for jr – not bad for what they are asking him to do – play center until (if) Beltran comes back, then be the 4th outfielder. Francouer and Bay are going to need rest also, so he’ll probably start 50 games + pinch hit, get 250 ABs. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets more starts than that.

  113. psujoe

    January 22, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Mets need to fire their GM and start over. There’s no method to there madness. Like it or not Rube has a philosophy, a plan if you will on what he’s doing. Mets are just throwing stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks.

  114. psujoe

    January 22, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    MLBTRADERUMORS said Phils offerred Lee a 3/60 extension. no word on if it was formally turned down.

  115. griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Not sure where the disdain of Victorino is coming from. He has a stable skill set, is the epitome of consistency and in only 29. His UZR rating was down last year, but that was more than likely a one year anomaly. The guy is solid.

  116. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I knew that Sarge Jr thing had to be a typo … no way that would pay $10 M per season.. when they could probably get Johnny Damon for that much money instead


    Victorino helps us win games.. he’s just too “chippy” for me, personally.

    I “like” him because he’s on the Phillies, but he reminds me of Russell Martin, whom I despise ….always yapping.. not quite as good as he thinks he is. . etc..

  117. Matt

    January 22, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    I know this isn’t really related to Victorino, but I read on MLBTradeRumors that the Phils offered Cliff Lee a 3 yr $60M extension. Although he never formally turned it down before he was traded, sources say Lee is seeking a long term deal in the 5 yr $90M range.

    I wonder if this precluded the Halladay deal, or were the Phillies actually considering going all in, with Halladay and Lee locked in. IF that’s the case, which I highly doubt it is, this oughta ease the pain of those who were hurt when Lee was traded. Can you imagine having Halladay and Lee locked up though? That would’ve been amazing, and it would’nt put us in a situation where we’d have to rely on MLB ready arms, where we could allow our young guys like Cosart, Colvin, and May to develop without any rush.

  118. beta sigma shag

    January 22, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    the one point I would like to make that at just over 7 million a year, Vic could still be traded after next year if that what it takes to keep Jayson, and/or Howard. This is a discount IMO because in three years if he stays productive he would get at least 10 million from someone. Now he would be a steal in a trade for 7.5 if Brown is ready and you re sign Jayson. I like locking up this guys to keep the core together, knowing they all will be here thru 2012 is key to keep this team rolling as the kids in the minors get more prepared to step up and play

  119. Keystone

    January 22, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    I like these two extensions. RAJ is gonna have a tough time at the end of the 2011 season with Ryan Howard, Cole Hamels, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Madson, Raul Ibanez, Danys Baez, and J.C. Romero (assuming his 2011 option is picked up) all becoming free agents at the same time. This gives some carry over to the 2012 season.

  120. bfo_33

    January 22, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Agree Shag – I like the Vic signing more due to getting a guy for three years under his perceived worth, but don’t necessarily think he is a key part of the future. He really doesn’t have a natural batting positon, and while a good cf, his rep is based on web gems, not day to day consistency. In addition, it will make my daughter happy – after the Phanatic, Vic is her favorite Phil.

  121. Tom

    January 22, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    George: are you out of your mind or just have no idea what you are talking about? Strikeouts….yeah duh hiward’s is worst but defensively are you for real? Pujols is .992 while Howard is .990, how can you say he’s soooo much better? I’m not saying by any means that Ryan is better than albert, but take pujols out of baseball and who’s next in line? RYAN HOWARD!

  122. mikemike

    January 22, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Mets took a low risk on matthew, paying him next to nothing, so as bad as minaya is this move isnt bad yet, I like victorino dont understand the talk , plays good defense, fast and a nice hitter, Ibanez signing, when it first happen i hated it, but he carried this team and without him it would have been very hard to win, so if he isnt any good this year the contract was worth it because he won us a pennant, so the move was good in that respect, if they have to eat a year big deal they won because of him.not in spite of him a big difference.

  123. mikemike

    January 22, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Tom you must take range into account when you talk defense. Pujois is a elite defensive first basemen

  124. Chuck

    January 22, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    “chippy”…

    Haven’t heard that term in awhile..funny…I always equated it to a woman somehow..

    Kind of fits him though.

  125. Tom

    January 22, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Mikemike: understood all I am saying us don’t put down Howard when he’s the closest thing to pujols! You know just as well as I do Ryan keeps gettin better. I’m not saying they are equal but cmon comparrisons have to be made!

  126. Don M

    January 22, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Let me go on record as saying that I am, for the first time, IN AGREEMENT with something mikemike said

    it must be a Friday today…


    Last year’s postseason.. Vic always just running his mouth, because he knows its baseball and he’ll never really actually have to fit anyone… there was one time (forget who the pitcher was) .. but the guy stepped off the rubber, Victorino was leading from 1b …. RULE #1 in baseball is that if the pitcher is off the rubber.. GET ON THE BASE!!! …. Instead Vic stands there half-creeping back and forth between taking more of a lead, and then moving back a little, taking another step forward, etc.. then just stands there staring

    a large part of me wanted him to get picked-off just for being so cocky

  127. jrollpatrol08

    January 22, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    man it hard to dislike this signing because its sucha great deal for the phils. but it does in my mind make it much harder for werth to resign. we can sit and analyze payroll, revenue, money on the books, money coming off the books, trades, FA signings, whatever…i honestly hope this move was made becaues werth is gonna be too expensive…if thats the case, and he walks, then thats more money to lock up the big man ryan howard. i am perfectly fine with keeping vic, lettin werth go, payin howard 25mil for 4 years. you cant keep everybody, guys.

  128. griffin

    January 22, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    I was checking out Ibanez’s contract and realized that Amaro decided to give him a full no-trade clause.

    So we can forget about trading Ibanez to save payroll for Werth.

    But I guess everyone will say that Amaro HAD to give him the third year AND a full no-trade clause in order for him to sign with the defending world champions.

  129. shag beta sigma delta

    January 22, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    I would like to think, since Vic and Blanton did give somewhat of a discount to sign 3 year deals, that they are setting Wreth up to do the same thing. Blanton, if he has another Big Joe type of year would get 10 million from someone out there on the open market, so weather you think he is worth it or not, that would be his value. Same goes for Vic, there would be some team out there in two years to give him 9-10 million also. So can’t you go to Jayson, and say “Your buddies just took money off the table to stay here, how about you take a back loaded contract at 12-14 million per instead of seeing if you can get 15-18 million per from some other team.” And this could go for Ryan also take 21 million, 22 million, 24 million 25 million for four years so 4 years 92 million so we can keep all you guys together.
    Now maybe they won’t do that, and maybe the Phillies do not want to pay that. But right now on this team you have signed Doc to 4 years, Vic and Blanton for 3 years, and they took gave up money to stay here for those years. I know I am an eternal optimist, but maybe it is the start of a trend.

  130. Chuck

    January 23, 2010 at 9:36 am

    shag…

    I think it’s at least worth a try…reach out to Jayson….see where his head is at…same with Howard. Who knows?? But I have a hard time thinking that the Phillies will be able to pay for BOTH of them…

    You figure Werth …right now…with his skills ….and the Bay and Holliday deals as examples…if he is anything CLOSE to last season…Werth probably is a $15 million guy..

    And Howard…well…$19M this year and $20 next..I mean..he’s probably AT LEAST a $25 million dollar player when it comes time to deal with his contract.

    Unless payroll is figured to go up enough to pay these guys…and everybody else…I don’t know..

    I would love to see it happen too. Jayson Werth one of my favorite players, along with Carlos Ruiz…and if Howard is up to bat…I can’t leave the living room til he’s either out or on base..Just have to watch that at-bat!!

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