Moyer, Offense Flounder Against Fish – Phillies Nation
2010 Game Recaps

Moyer, Offense Flounder Against Fish

After the searing start the Phillies’ offense got off to in their first 10 games, it was bound to get shut down eventually. Saturday, that day finally arrived. Ricky Nolasco pitched a five-hitter, allowing only a late home run to Jayson Werth in a 5-1 victory over the Phillies at Citizens Bank Park.

The real troubling thing about the game was that Jamie Moyer allowed his second five-run inning of the season – in the first inning, no less – putting the Phillies in an immediate hole. After back-to-back, carbon-copy RBI singles by Jorge Cantu and Dan Uggla, Ronny Paulino lofted a three-run homer just over the wall in left-center.

(Don’t forget – Paulino is the guy the Phils traded to the Giants for Jack Taschner a couple of months after the 2008 World Series. And is it me, or do former Phillies catchers always come back to hurt the Phils? I’m thinking of Rod Barajas here.)

Moyer righted himself to go six innings without allowing any further damage. And you could argue that the five-run first was irrelevant because one run won’t win many games, even with Roy Halladay on the mound. Speaking of struggling starters, Cole Hamels will take the mound Sunday for the series victory. You can say it’s only April, but beating division opponents is vital no matter the month.

60 Comments

60 Comments

  1. BurrGundy

    April 18, 2010 at 2:12 am

    Cole has a lot to prove, including whether his heart is still in the game. It is easy to take the money and run, not get too intense about conditioning and not taking the necessary measures regarding the mastery of a demanding skill set, namely pitching. Also, sometimes pitchers just wear out. Look at Dontrelle Willis. Issues mount, stage freight happens. Despite everything, athletes are human, just like us fans. We really need Cole badly. I want him to be successful and I believe he will be successful. But I want it now. RIGHT NOW. I admit to being a selfish fan. I want to continue to root for a winner and pitching is the most important part of this great game. I look at our pitching staff, starters and relievers, and I worry. Cole can do a lot to ease the concern. GO COLE !!!

  2. philsgirl

    April 18, 2010 at 3:20 am

    Well said, BurrGundy. Cole’s performance this year is going to be crucial, and I won’t say much more since my fears that we may not see a 2008 Cole again apparently have me immediately pegged as a newcomer to the Phils (?!). In a different way than in a post-season situation, but still in a significant way, this game places a spotlight and pressure on him, and of course he’s gotta be feeling it, so here’s hoping he steps up. With concerns (hopefully temporary) re: Happ now, our pitching staff, Halladay excepted, is a hurtin’ one.

  3. WFC010

    April 18, 2010 at 4:11 am

    Does Ronny Paulino even qualify as a former Phillies player?

    We didn’t draft him, and he never played any regular season games for the big league club.

    Either way, it was stupid to trade him away… and it’s haunting us now.

    Let’s hope for a decent job by Cole today, at least as good as his last 2 starts.

  4. Phylan

    April 18, 2010 at 4:22 am

    Dragging this over from the last post, philsgirl, what I said was in reference to you saying that “some people worry that Cole is a one year wonder.” Those people would be ignorant of the fact that Cole had an excellent 2007. I was just pointing that out.

  5. WFC010

    April 18, 2010 at 4:34 am

    Cole was great in the minors, he was great from 2006 to 2008 in the Majors, so it’d be a great injustice for him to merely be written off as a “1 year wonder” since he clearly wasn’t. While 2008 may be his best year to date, 2006 and 2007 weren’t far behind, and there’s absolutely no reason he can’t recapture his magic again.

    He is NOT a Kyle Kendrick, and he’s not even a Gavin Floyd style headcase.

    He just struggled last year, and he worked his ass off this off-season and spring, just trying to improve himself and hopefully his composure as well.

  6. MikeB.

    April 18, 2010 at 4:34 am

    I think that the “skinny” on Paulino was that he did not have much a of a stick, was overweight and had motivational problems when he was with the Pirates.

  7. philsgirl

    April 18, 2010 at 7:00 am

    Gotcha Phylan, as I said, poor choice of words on my part. Just hope 2009 was a fluke. Let’s hope it’s the luck factor in BABIP that Mike Baumann’s article illustrates in differentiating a Hamels from a Kendrick, and not basic work-ethic, team-spirit, or personal issues. Or sacrificing his curve to a cutter. And I’d take Cole’s 2007 in a heartbeat, esp. following Halladay. It’d be great to see indications of something like that real soon this year. Later today would be just fine!

  8. drtyjerz

    April 18, 2010 at 7:53 am

    i feel like amaro did basically 1 good thing since he took over, doc, and you could argue blanton was a good signing and although vic was overpaid he’s heart n soul so fine. taschner for paulino was bad, i forgot about that one. ibanez will not only mean we cant keep werth (and therefore no righty power bat), but will ensure we have a left fielder who makes us miss pat burrells batting average & defensive abilities. we have 2 years of baez taking up space in the bullpen, we have no plan for howard, polanco looks good so far but was overpaid and could be this year’s ibanez by year 3 of that deal, there’s nothing in the way of position players in the farm system, what is our closer situation if lidge is bad again, the bullpen looks bad, not to mention the beaten subjects of the idiotic/sympathetic moyer signing & the eventually related cliff lee departure. im wondering if its a matter of when not if amaros moves sink this streak of greatness. hopefully im wrong.

  9. NJ

    April 18, 2010 at 8:05 am

    Paulino always had a big stick, the problem he had is he couldn’t handle it at the major league level and wasn’t good enough behind the plate and once Ryan Doumit became a legit two-way catcher the Bucs were happy to move on.

    I can’t believe the way some people are complaining about some of these players, Ibanez isn’t hitting but he’s near top of the majors in walks. Baez will be fine, not Madson numbers but fine and the thing people just don’t seem to get about Cliff Lee is all those little factors not named Cliff Lee during the season, then he walks and you get almost nothing (yes I mean a late first rounder at best and a sandwhich pick plus signing bonus’s).

    As for Moyer if your 5th starter is going to give you 6 innings then stop crying unless you really believe this team can win 110-120 games. The most important thing is you get some innings from him and 3 bullpen innings in a loss is much better than 5 and that’s pretty much all that matters in the greater picture of the season.

    Cole has to start turning in quality starts at the very minimum to get this rotation warming up.

  10. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 8:49 am

    Well, If we are going to accept the premise, as NJ has suggested, that we not worry about the #5 starter, I have a suggestion. When Jamie goes out there and gives up 6 runs in the first two innings and we are in a 6-0 hole, Jaime can stay in the game and go 7 NO MATTER WHAT, unless and until the Phils get back in the ball game, then go to the pen. Point being, if he’s gonna suck, at least don’t blow up the bullpen in the process. Not fair to Jaime? He’s a pro? He’s making 8.5 mill so he can swallow it for the team as far as I’m concerned.

    The Dipsy

  11. mikemike

    April 18, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Well first time they face a major league team without halladay. how did they do? Get ready to see how much they will miss lee, and we will go from the best to one of the worst.

  12. NJ

    April 18, 2010 at 9:12 am

    What I mean is if Moyer’s going to go 6 innings then you can stomach the loss. He’s not going to lose every game, the ERA will be ugly but he’s a role player and right now the bullpen is incredibly important and every inning from a starter counts. I’m not saying the 5th starter doesn’t matter but you get out of it what you can, you don’t focus on it.

    What Halladay can achieve this year will be ridiculous, I believe once he starts being a bit more aggressive that Hamels will be consistently strong in the same way Cain is behind Lincecum. Happ’s a very good young pitcher who’s going to do some good things and right now it looks horrible without Blanton with Moyer and Kendrick in the same rotation. Once Blanton returns you’ll take 5/6 innings from anyone in the back of that rotation and that guys likely to be Moyer in the sort-term. I would expect the Phils to pick up a guy most likely Pedro after the all-star break but right now the Phils are going forward not backwards. Personally I’d be starting Figueroa over Kendrick right now but that’s just me.

    Hamels and Happ need to start building up some innings more than Moyer needs to be replaced, the Kendrick situation though does need to be addressed. The way that the Phils are hitting the pitching needs to move a game along not slow it down otherwise those runs will dry up fast.

  13. Scotch Man

    April 18, 2010 at 9:17 am

    First off, Moyer was getting squeezed a bit at first. He forced a few groundballs that had eyes. Then Paulino put one in the seats. Yeah, it sucked but he was terrific after that and it’s not like the Phillies were doing anything against Nolasco anyway. Moyer did what a 5th starter does.

  14. NJ

    April 18, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Seriously what does Lee give you if the rest of the rotation past Halladay isn’t giving you at least quality starts?

    What happens next year with the payroll likely exceeding $140m without re-signing Werth and the year after when the core players contracts increase and we really have a need for guys at the major league minimum but they don’t because all that was recouped from Lee leaving was a 2nd rounder and a sandwich still years away from the majors?

    J-Roll may not understand the deal but he’s going to want a good contract to not test the market, where does that money come from?

    I would have liked to have kept Lee as much as the next guy but I know this team right now has enough to win this year, next or in 5 years but it’s a team effort and one guy doesn’t make a difference.

    It’s too early to be showing your teeth and it’s too early to throw your arms up in the air about pitching that is barely broken in.

  15. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Well, Pedro will be here soon. Although he can only pitch six or seven, at least he can do a better job. Blanton coming back will really stabilize the rotation. This may be belabouring the obvious, but that working stiff, seven inning, 4.00 guy is pretty valuable in today’s game. Keeps the bullpen fresh and always gives your team a chance to win. If Pedro does get signed, Moyer will have to be traded (with us swallowing A LOT of contract) or just cut. I envision the latter.

    On another note, I have no idea how Raul has the career stats that he has because he has a horrible swing. I’m glad he’s walking, though. Ryan is looking better at the plate than he EVER has. He’s not chasing and he’s going the other way on the outside pitch. That inside outer through the infield two games ago is something he never would have done last year. This is the Howard I, personally, have always wanted to see. People always used to yell about “leaving well enough alone” with Howard but this is the guy you get when the plate discipline kicks in. How do you like him? Maybe Barry Bonds is actually good for something.

    The Dipsy

  16. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 9:29 am

    A guy that can’t win and then gives you “I was getting squeezed” as an excuse, again, shouldn’t be starting in the major leagues.

    The Dipsy

  17. mikemike

    April 18, 2010 at 9:30 am

    lee and halladay give you a chance to win two of three every series. and if you make the playoffs. two quality starters with days off is critical.

  18. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Cliff Lee plays for the Mariners.

    The Dipsy

  19. Ed R.

    April 18, 2010 at 9:44 am

    When are people going to get it…there was never going to be Lee and Halladay. Only Lee or only Halladay.

    The notion that the Phillies will miss Lee is incorrect given that Halladay has been nothing short of Cy Young so far.

    What the Phillies will miss is a reliable 2-3-4-5 starter. Maybe just 2-4-5 once Blanton comes back.

  20. NJ

    April 18, 2010 at 9:45 am

    I love what Howard is doing right now and I’ve been very critical of him, if he’s going to take what the defense is giving him rather than that big swing every AB then he’s going to make his hundred mill and then some with the Phils.

    Ibanez hasn’t been terrible, not good but he’s walking and making some productive outs, above all come rain or shine you know he’s a hard worker off-the-field and thats infectious.

    As for the pitching Pedro won’t be here soon, I very much doubt it’ll happen before the all-star break and it’s very possible a team like the Mets will jump ahead in the queue if their not out of the race.

    Halladay/Lee doesn’t give you a chance to win 2/3 every series unless you have a 3 man rotation and they throw 50 games each… Stupid comment. You have a chance to win in almost any start and the great thing about baseball is that there’s so many variables and right now the Phils would be in no better a position with Lee, Haren, Beckett who aren’t near the pitchers they really are because it’s still April.

    Once we really break into May, if Blanton is healthy and hits the ground running given their preparations for the season you’d expect to have a very good rotation in Halladay, Hamels, Blanton and Happ who should allow for a very structured bullpen and if Moyer is going to give you a minimum of 5 innings each start where are you going to find a back of the rotation starter who can exceed that? Most of those guys you could name will trend out to pretty much the same amount of innings.

    You need more from what you have here from the pitching, expecting more from the hitting right now is just head-scratching with the amount of hits and runs they’ve produced cumulatively.

  21. Ed R.

    April 18, 2010 at 9:51 am

    So far having only Halladay has allowed the Phillies to win 3 series in a row and are tied in the current series.

    That is with the rest of our rotation pitching like crap.

  22. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Off point: I’m sorry, but if you bean a guy with a pitch you just have to walk to the plate and make sure he’s ok or act concerned or something. Am I wrong? The sanctity of a man’s skull is just bigger than the game’s traditions, some of which are stupid.

    The Dipsy

  23. drtyjerz

    April 18, 2010 at 9:58 am

    NJ, my point is not so much about lee as what I see the moves amaro is making meaning for now & in the near future. And again i hope i’m wrong.

    As far as the Lee deal goes, the argument for keeping him was obviously for the best shot to win it this year, even though we’d get a little less for him after this year. But even before the kids we picked up for him, pitching (and outfield) is the strongest area of our farm system. Even though most of those kids are 2-3 years away, who’s to say Aumont isnt as well?

    What was clearly not done right with the Lee thing is how Amaro handled it. He clearly didnt shop it around, and rushed to bury it in the same headline as Doc coming to town. And he didnt do anything to replenish the farm system infield.

    I agree with the idea that Moyer is getting paid money that we need to address the pen & other arms, and should man up and retire or throw some innings at less than a 6.00 ERA.

    And Ibanez is not getting paid $11m a year to walk. Hit, or retire so we can keep Werth. So many years, so much money, so early in last years free agency period= bonehead signing. If we hadnt signed him & last year had a 1 year stopgap, we could STILL RIGHT NOW plug in Jermaine Dye this year for half the cost & half the years and probably better production- from the right side. (And you cant say a 1-year stopgap would have meant the difference in our finish last year considering how ibanez was injured and disappeared in the 2nd half.)

  24. Ed R.

    April 18, 2010 at 10:02 am

    According to Lee his injury is supposedly why he hit Snider. Or he believes it aiding him why he lost control of his pitch. Had nothing to do with the collision at the plate from the inning before.

  25. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Jermaine Dye! Finally! Great idea drty. In fact, at this point, you could sign Dye for a mill and platoon him with Ibanez. Ibanez has not been an effective player since he came back from the injury last year. Thats a fact. BUT! I have a feeling that if we were able to dump him somehow that the clubhouse might not like it. If this keeps up for another month or so, I think you would have to think about making a move re: Ibanez. He is untradebale unless, and this is a common refrain, you eat a lot of his salary.

    The Dipsy

  26. George

    April 18, 2010 at 10:05 am

    I never read any comment from Moyer that he was “getting squeezed.” It was Scotch Man who said that. Moyer is not a complainer.

    Although he’s been awful in two innings so far, his other ten have been nearly flawless. Give the man a break.

    It’s early yet, and the pitchers, except Kendrick, have shown some ability and will likely improve as they get more into the swing of things and the umpires get their act together. Phils starters haven’t been the only bad ones in the league; even talents like Santana and Beckett have throw clunkers. Cliff Lee hasn’t thrown at all, and may be lousy after his DL stint, as he was in 2007 after the same type of injury.

    Blanton will replace Kendrick soon. I think the rotation can survive until then.

  27. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 10:08 am

    NO! I will not give Moyer a break. Being awful for two innings buries your team in two games. One horrible inning is all it takes. To my way of thinking, if you pitch a no hitter thru 4 innings and then give up five runs and then get pulled in the sixth, thats a bad outing.

    The Dipsy

  28. NJ

    April 18, 2010 at 10:12 am

    this is going off subject but what more could we have got for Lee and where? Every time this comes up I ask the same thing and no-one who disagrees with the Seattle deal gives a good answer. The baseball media is so over saturated we have a pretty good idea of what major prospects are out there and which teams are in the running for what kind of veterans. Yanks- No, Boston and LAA weren’t going to give up their top prospects for Halladay so why would they for Lee? Dodgers didn’t have the prospects so who else? …And two more years with Aumont in the system makes him a 23 year old with 5 years in a system primed for the majors…

    I think we can all agree we could do with some young infielders with a high ceiling in the minors but there are a couple and you do concentrate on the areas you don’t have guys you’ll have signed for the next half decade.

    Dye is a HORRIBLE option, if Ibanez is walking he’ll come around. It’s when guys aren’t walking when their bats quiet you worry.

  29. Dave

    April 18, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Amazing that we have a payroll of $140 million and no starting pitching after Halladay. Florida has a better rotation than we do.

  30. George

    April 18, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Sign Dye for a million, and as a platoon player? Does anyone here actually read? Dye has already turned down $3 million because he wants to be a regular starter. Personally, I don’t think the Phils need someone who’s that enamored of himself.

    And I wish people would stop harping on what THEY think Amaro should have done in the Lee situation. They aren’t dealing with other front offices like Amaro is, so they don’t have any idea of the variables involved or who was really available.

  31. NJ

    April 18, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Jamie Moyer and his salary 2 starts 12 innings, 6.00ERA 10ERs

    Carlos Zambrano 3 starts 13.1IP, 9.45ERA 14ERs
    Javier Vazquez 2 starts 11IP, 9.82ERA, 12 ERs
    Justin Verlander 13 starts 17IP, 6.88ERA 13 ERs
    Jake Peavy 3 starts 18 IPs, 6.00 ERA 12 ERs
    Yovani Gallardo 3 starts 18IP, 5.50ERA 11 ERs

    Cole Hamels 2 starts 10.2IP, 5.06 ERA 6 ERs
    JA Happ 2 starts 10.1IP no earned runs

    If your gonna say we should go get another starter to fill the rotation and jettison Moyer once Blanton’s back then who- Aaron Cook? Aaron Harang? Paul Maholm? Jake Westrbrook? Are any of them really going to be better value than Moyer?

  32. Ed R.

    April 18, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Side Note: Apparently Happ may not make his next start due to discomfort in his left forearm.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/04/17/10/Marlins-Tag-Moyer-Happ-is-Hurting/landing.html?blockID=218325&feedID=704

  33. boxage

    April 18, 2010 at 10:31 am

    I was at the game. Devastating to see them lose in person!

  34. George

    April 18, 2010 at 10:31 am

    My point about Moyer is not that two bad innings doesn’t make for horrible outings, it’s that his other ten show that he still has something in the tank, and the potential to throw some decent games. (You’ll note I said DECENT games, not spectacular ones.)

    As far as trading for infield depth, it would have been nice, but it’s also possible there wasn’t any available. At least with pitching and a surplus of outfielders, you have some trade chips for later.

  35. George

    April 18, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Thanks NJ for your stats. Seems the Phils aren’t the only ones with problem pitching. I knew of the two I mentioned, but those other “Aces” are amazing.

    None of those guys are going to be that bad all year; I’m not sure why people are so worried about the Phils’ rotation this early in the year. Maybe it’s because an elite pitcher like Halladay makes everyone else look silly by comparison. But then Koufax sometimes made even Drysdale look second rate.

  36. Scotch Man

    April 18, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Good grief Dipsy, the Moyer hatred is a bit much don’t you think? He pitches to contact and a few grounders got by and Paulino put one in the seats. I’m the last to say his starts were good but the Phils won one of them and lost the other. I mean you look at what other 5th starters have done, they’re pretty similar. I don’t see Moyer going out there and coughing up a 5 spot every time out. If it becomes a bit much, then fine. Get a new starter. But he can get batters out.

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  39. Wine Man

    April 18, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Forget it Scotch Man, The Dipsy knows all.

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  41. Ted Bell

    April 18, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Ibanez is simply playing like a 38 year old player used to play in the pre-steroid era. The days of late 30 year old/early 40 year old players maintaining or even increasing their production are (hopefully) over. This was the risk RAJ took when he signed Raul to a three year deal. We all knew this had a high probability of happening.

  42. riccaboni

    April 18, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Does it suck to lose? Yes.

    Can Moyer pitch effective innings? Yes.

    I’d like to repeat what Ed R. said: it was only ever going to be Lee or Halladay, not both. They hardly gave up anything useful to them to acquire Lee so what makes you think they would have gotten much more back for him?

    Let’s look at what we gave up for Lee:

    Lou Marson – Starting catcher in Cleveland who is hitting .091 and will be on the first bus out of there once Santana is ready.

    Carlos Carrasco – Some upside but has a 8.87 MLB ERA and bad mechanics. Projects at most to be a no. 4/5 starter at this point.

    Jason Donald – Will turn 26 soon and the clock might be his worst enemy. May be a decent utility player at some point. Hitting .323 in Triple A against the .238 he put up all season last year.

    Jason Knapp – The week after we traded him, he had bodies removed from his elbow. Was effective in the Gulf Coast League as a 17 year old in 2008 but couldn’t seem to put it together last year. Verdict is still out.

    We didn’t exactly give up a cavalcade of stars and we still have Francisco from the deal. I ask you, is what we gave up for Lee and Francisco better or worse than what we got to get rid of him, keeping in mind that we still have Francisco?

    Anyways, no reason to hit the panic button. Getting Kentucky Joe won’t be the cure-all, but we all know he can give you 7-8 innings with 4 ER like clockwork, and with this offense, that’s more than a good enough job to win ball games.

  43. Brian Sr. of CO

    April 18, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Scotch Man, get used to it. I think alot of people on here ever created their own website, they should name it “moyerhaters.com”. Moyer didnt look good in the first, but he righted himself really well. I would have given several of the offense the Jeltz. I mean if only Moyer only gave up 1 run the Phillies would have won the game. Oh wait, you mean the Phillies only scored one run and that was a solo Homer in the 9th? You mean the Phillies didnt have runners in scoring position? You mean the Phillies didnt have bases loaded? LOL. I also am not sure if Cantu’s RBI single was completely Moyer. I didnt see Uggla’s, but it appeared most of the time Palanco would have had that. Grounders where they were are normally outs for them. Could also be that Castro doesnt have Rollins range either. The homer…Well, that just sucked. oh well. Cant win them all. Now lets see if Hamels can pitch well on a day game. Honestly doubtful considering he HATES pitching on day games! As for Coles career? 2006 was average, sorry. slightly over 4 ERA isnt bad at all, but he had aboutl half the innings that he had in 2008, and almost the same amount of Home Runs. 2007, and 08 was slightly better. 2009 was mediocre. 2010 is still WAY to early to say. I sure hope he can get more than 5 innings though! I would take 2007 Cole over 2009 (or 2010 so far) Cole any day of the week. Im not also trying to compare Halladay to Cole (Cole as good as he was in 2008 still wasnt as good as Halladay is) but Halladay was passed up by the Phillies in the draft, and for a few years he was HORRIBLE. Cole is still very young, and with Halladay there, and Moyer and his experience, Cole has alot of potential. Probably why some of us have a short fuse with Cole, because we have seen what he can do, and see the potential he has if he could just bounce back after he gives up a homer or something.

    Oh and Dipsy, why give Hamels a break and not Moyer? Moyer goes out pictches 6 innings and gives up 5 runs, Hamels goes out pitches 5 innings (FYI thats 1 less) and gives up 4 runs. Does that really sound like a big difference that Hamels gets a break (you have given him one) and Moyer doesnt? We all know you HATE Moyer, and forgot what he did in 2008. At least we know if we need someone to be impartial dont ask you. Just be fair. Moyer hasnt been very good, but FYI, NEITHER HAS COLE. And Cole was signed to the deal at the beginning of last year to be the ACE. Moyer is supposed to be a #5 starter. Thats it, nothing more. a #2 starter should NOT have less innings than a #5. Moyer is still having problems, but so is Hamels.

  44. Manny

    April 18, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    You gotta give credit to Moyer for bouncing back strongly after that rough 1st inning. He went 5 shutout innings, 7Ks… he clearly has some gas left in the tank!

  45. BurrGundy

    April 18, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Dipsy — I love the idea of bringing Dye in to platoon in left field as well as pinch hit……..creative solution.

  46. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Well, Hamels has a history of being a flat out stud. Moyer does not. Moyer is coming off a horrible year last year, is 47 coming off two surgeries, and is being paid 8.5m, which personally really sticks in my craw. Moyer will never be good again. Hamels will, he just has to find it. I know its not Jamie’s fault that RAJ committed GM malpractice by giving him that contract. If he were making $775,000, I wouldn’t care. Hey….Dye and Gload platooning in left? Why not?

    The Dipsy

  47. Chuck

    April 18, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Moyer has pitched 12 innings so fat this year.

    In TEN on those innings his ERA is 0.00…..that’s ZERO.

    Unfortunately, the other two innings are the story that everybody is focusing on.

    My point is…for now….just leave him as the 5th starter. Everything will even out.

    I would think that when Blanton comes back then Kendrick goes to the pen. Give him one more start. If he sucks, then move him to the pen before Joe returns….and give Figueroa a start or two.

    And can we just STOP talking about Cliff Lee as if he was still on the team?? Like Dipsy said earlier….he plays for the Mariners.

  48. mikemike

    April 18, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    nj two first round choice is what you get for lee, and if you are willing to spend they could be a utley and howard in the making, rather have lee and those two first rounds. Then two undrafted players and a first round bust is what we got for lee.

  49. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    For all the arguments about Cliff Lee, NJ especially, go google the column I wrote when it all went down. While I do not cite myself as the ultimate authority, I still believe what I wrote is what happened.

    The Dipsy

  50. Chuck

    April 18, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Why not Gload and Dye in left????

    Because Dye isn’t on the team…..and Ibanez is.

    I’m on record as saying that when the year is finished….Raul is at .250 with 15-20 hrs and like 60-80 rbis

    Is that like last year? No. But it will be fine with me and I would think BETTER than some sort of platoon combination.

  51. mikemike

    April 18, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    then you have a good team you go after the ring again with lee. it was better, chance then without him. rather go for it when we have the players. werth leaves next year and no guarantees howard resign, so sieze the moment, the fans are pouring in to support the team.

  52. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Chuck – If that’s what you think Raul’s gonna do, you can’t keep hin the lineup. My prediction: 18 HRS 78 RBIs .263. All this, combined with his speed (or lack thereof, lack of range in the field, and poor arm makes him a liability. And at 11.5m or whatever? My god. I would get rid of him RIGHT NOW for the worst prospect in baseball. And we have him for a year after this! You could platoon Gload and Francisco.

    The Dipsy

  53. Chuck

    April 18, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Ok…IF he can be traded….and we know for fact that Brown is ready for 2011….then trade him THIS year if it can be done. That way there’s $$ for Werth.

    Those numbers you predict aren’t TERRIBLE, by the way…..and “lack of range in the field”??? You see his catch Friday night?? Just sayin’.

  54. Ed R.

    April 18, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    I would trade Ibanez for nothing right now if for any other reason than it free’s up a significant amount of cash to try and resign Howard or Werth.

    Ben Fran can hold down LF well in my opinion.

    Sorry, but Ibanez is an older version of Burrell with less plate discipline and a worse swing.

  55. The Dipsy

    April 18, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Chuck – He can catch what he can get to. No doubt. He just doesn’t get to as much as a LF should. He’s slow. But it was I nice catch. Of course he should be traded now. I think he should have been traded in the off season. A platoon of Francisco and Gload/Dobbs will give you better numbers than Raul and will play a better LF.

    The Dipsy

  56. George

    April 18, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Despite his stubbornness about Moyer–although even I think he’s overpaid–I will agree with Dipsy on two things. One, Cliff Lee plays for the Mariners, and two, the “sanctity of a man’s skull is bigger than the game’s traditions.”

    Anyone who thinks Dye is an option hasn’t read his second half stats, or seen his defensive decline. He’s aging faster than Ibanez, and has an injury history a mile or two long. He’s also not game ready, and would require time in the minors to get in shape. He’s also turned down better money than the Phils could pay, because he doesn’t want to platoon.

    And no, you don’t get two first rounders for Lee. Sometimes, as was the case last year when the Yanks signed three type A’s, one team doesn’t get any. Even if you do get one, he may be the 29th selection; little better than a sandwich pick.

  57. George

    April 18, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Let’s hope the Happ sore arm isn’t serious. A rotation with Moyer, Kendrick, and Figueroa doesn’t sound too good.

    I also wonder, as I always do about Phillies’ news, why Zolecki hasn’t reported this. Talk about not cutting players any slack, why do we allow such lazy reporting without trashing phillies.com for allowing him to remain? They should trade Zolecki for someone who actually does his job, and doesn’t merely post the same articles on both the Phils’ site and his own blog. Zolecki’s big concern seems to be book sales, not real reporting.

    I miss Stark, who did it right.

  58. Manny

    April 18, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Not one single run!!? AAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHH

  59. NJ

    April 18, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Anyone who thinks you arbitrarily get two first round picks for a type A free agent ask Toronto or Milwaukee… It’s a low first rounder at best, CC yielded a 2nd rounder, Marco Scutaro a 2nd rounder, AJ Burnett a 3rd and there’s more examples if you look… The sandwich is likely to be your higher pick since anyone who signs Lee is likely to be making major roster moves.

  60. Brian Sr. of CO

    April 19, 2010 at 12:48 am

    Also look at Raul’s stats month by month. He is notorious for going hot and cold. He is cold right now. Lets see if he stays that way. I tend to doubt it, but when was the last time some (not all) people looked at ALL stats, and not just the ones that prove their point.

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