2010 Game Recaps

Offense, Where Art Thou? Phils Shutout for 7th Time

Just when you thought it was over. Just when you thought it was back to normal.  Just when you thought this team was turning it around, they go and lay an egg.

The Phillies offense did one of their all-too-familiar disappearing acts as Josh Johnson completely shut them down in the Marlins 2-0 win. Johnson was a step ahead of Phillies ace Roy Halladay tonight.  The Florida ace tossed eight scoreless innings, allowing only four Phillies to reach base on the evening (three hits, one walk). To end his outing, JJ sat down 17 Phillies in a row. The final hit of the night for the Fightin’-(less) came on a double by Shane Victorino in the third. That was it.

No blame can be placed upon the sterling right arm of Roy Halladay. If he decided to go bonkers in the clubhouse and ream out his teammates, would anyone blink an eye?  Doc now has four losses on the season, even though his ERA sunk to a ridiculous 1.96 for the season. Forget about the 25 wins you thought Halladay could take a run at.  That’s now out the door.

You can give thanks to the absent Phillies offense for that.  In fairness, Josh Johnson is one of the best pitchers in all of baseball. His fastball touched 97 throughout the game and his slider was devastating. Charlie Manuel agreed that tonight, it was more about the guys throwing than the guys trying to hit. “I felt like tonight it was good pitching,” said Manuel. “Johnson’s tough. He had good stuff, he’s very good.”

Halladay was very good in his own right, but his laborious first frame was just enough to send him to his fourth loss this year. In seven of his 13 starts this season, he’s allowed one run or less. The Phillies ace tried to find the silver lining in all of this, just as the rest of the jaded Phillies starters have done previously. “I think it says more about him [Johnson] than I think it says about our offense,” Halladay said. “We swung the bats well the day before yesterday and we just ran into a hot pitcher.”

Doc can deflect the attention away from the struggling offense all he wants, but this is no longer a slump. These are the Phillies we now know. Jayson Werth continued to flail, going 0-for-3 with two strikeouts. Ryan Howard struck out to end the game, something Werth has done twice in the last week. It’s ugly and it may only get worse.

The Phils now head north to Boston for the weekend to face the team that had their hand in starting this whole mess. They just laid another egg.  It’s starting to smell in here.



  1. Reem

    June 10, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Like I’ve been saying, Francisco needs to be starting in right field. Werth is a bum. He looks and plays the part rather well. It’s time to ship him off to another team to bolster our bench.

  2. MikeB.

    June 10, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Werth just plain looked terrible at the plate tonight.

  3. Pingback: Phillies Celebrate 7th Shut Out of Season With Downtrodden Facial Expressions | That Balls Outta Here | A Philadelphia Phillies Blog

  4. Morris Buttermaker

    June 10, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    Watching the Phillies offense trying to bat against Johnson was like watching a bear try to read a subway map.

  5. joe

    June 10, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    phillies don’t make the playoffs.

    thats a fact

  6. Bob Myers

    June 11, 2010 at 12:07 am

    It’s becoming the new norm now that this offense is crippled. Why? Theories will abound. But the fact of it is now hard to resist, even the most optimistic Phillies fan can see something is not right with this team.

    I agree that making the playoffs is in doubt now. We have very tough series coming up, and those series could put us in a deep hole before the All Star break.

    Who would have thought that a flailing offense would be the story-line of 2010?

    Worst thing, this team is just no fun to watch. It’s painful, and I wouldn’t have wanted to be at the ballpark for nearly half of their games now. That’s sad.

  7. JesusHeyward

    June 11, 2010 at 12:18 am

    I used to respect this team so much and fear them because I knew they would win the division…well this year I’m thinking it belongs to the Braves.After a sweep from Boston,NY Yanks,and the Twins your season will be over.I’m not trolling or hating because I admire Chase,Roy,Ryan,Jayson,Polly,Cole,Jamie,and a few others but I don’t think this offense will come alive against those teams.

  8. phils_ftw

    June 11, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Josh Johnson is a horrible pitcher. Clearly we should have put up a 10 spot against him.

    /end sarcasm

  9. Mets Fan 10

    June 11, 2010 at 12:24 am

    You guys are now Tied with the Mets who have the O’s this weekend! LGM!!!! phuck the Phillies

  10. Brian

    June 11, 2010 at 12:46 am

    Classy person Mets fan 10. Try winning another world series. 86 is a very long time ago. I guess I am upset for many reasons. Amaro not getting this bullpen and bench up to speed in the offseason. Baez is just plain bad. The bench is pathetic. Dobbs needs to be gone. Giving Howard that long contract will come back to kill this team. Taking Jimmy contract and extending the option. He is now breaking down. Kendrick is pathetic. Moyer has done well against teams that cant hit. Lets see him face the Yankees. He will get crushed. Everyone wanted Werth so bad now you cant wait for him to go. Funny. Nobody in the world can explain what happen to him, Utley and Howards power. Was it cheating or steroids. Has to be something. I hate to say it but they will lose big in NY AND Boston. Thank god we have the Mets in this division. They are just as bad.

  11. Scotch Man

    June 11, 2010 at 1:14 am

    I refuse to even aknowledge Mets fans exist. How’d Santana do against the Padres tonight by the way? Oh, wait, I see…

    I think Josh Johnson is a phenominal arm just as is Roy Halladay. Both have brought their best game in both matches (well, Doc’s was exceptional the last time out) but this is shaping up to be one of the classic pitcher battles. Like Steve Carlton vs. Tom Seaver! I loved this game and the last one, as a fan of the game. As a Phillies fan, I hate to see them lose another one via the shut out, but at the same time I kind of get this one. This one isn’t about potent offense. It’s about which pitcher makes fewer mistakes. Last week it was Doc. Tonight it was Johnson. It’s a great match up. Though I would have sent Doc to bat in the 9th over Dobbs and would have sent him out to pitch instead of Baez. Both moves that proved costly.

    As for the team struggles, they need to snap out of tonight and realize what’s ahead. It’s not an easy month and it’s a hard weekend. Sometimes I think they need that though.

  12. JesusHeyward

    June 11, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Hey Mets fan

    Aren’t the Mets away this weekend?They may not even beat the team that is a bigger joke than them.

  13. Bart Shart

    June 11, 2010 at 1:58 am

    Keep the faith. The Phils will turn this around. It is a long season. Plus, we have Happ, Rollins, and Madson coming back…..someday.
    Just don’t let it get to you. It’s just a game.

  14. MikeB.

    June 11, 2010 at 2:39 am

    Have to give the Marlin’s Josh Johnson credit for this shutout of the Philly offense. It was not all just because of them being in a slump. This guy is an exceptional pitcher and is capable of shutting any team down when he is on his game like he has been for most of this year. Tremendous slider, and fast ball with superb control in this past game. At 6′ 7″, quite an imposing pitcher bearing down on the hitters. Even if they would have been on top of their game hitting wise, still would have probably lost to this guy. Thank goodness they are going to miss Boston’s Lester again in this next series.

  15. Glutenous

    June 11, 2010 at 3:06 am

    Injuries have hampered the team so far, and no one is hitting, yet we are still in second place in the division (albeit barely) and only 2.5 games out of first. If we had such atrocious hitting in the early part of last year, we would be no where near 2nd place given the early struggles of the pitching staff. There is still an excellent chance to turn things around. Even if the Phillies do fall by the wayside this year, all is not lost. I think that we can be back and better than ever next year. Hell, even the Yankees missed the playoffs in 08. They came back to win it all the following year. I realize that they had many injuries that year but we’re dealing with injuries this year. Even if they do fall to the cellar and stay there, I will never forget this recent stint of success. I was 5 in 1993 and don’t have much of a recollection of that NL championship team. It has been a great couple of years to be a Phillies fan after watching the team stuggle year after year growing up and always thinking that “this year will be the year that they make it into the playoffs” and being constantly dissapointed. I will still display my team colors proudly just as I always have. GO PHILLIES.

  16. robert

    June 11, 2010 at 3:40 am

    Please don’t go writing obituaries for this squad. Our bats are just too proven, still in their primes (cept for Ibanez), and once we get J-Roll back at the top of the lineup that will help us out a lot. Instead of being decent 1-5, maybe 6, we will be strong 1-8. I know this doesn’t explain the struggles of Chase, Ryan, and especially Jayson, but these guys are just too professional of hitters to stink it up for much longer. Things will get better, I have to think that.
    With the unexpectedly strong starting pitching and bullpen pitching, I have to think that once the lineup does get on a collective roll this team will truly get hot in the 2nd half of the season. There is waaaaay too much talent in this clubhouse for us to miss the playoffs, and even with all the young talent being infused into our division, the only truly complete challenger has to be the Braves, and how long before the likes of Prado and Glaus stop carrying their offense?
    We will get better! This is just a test of our Philly Phaith!

  17. Baridon@aol.com

    June 11, 2010 at 4:12 am

    You are a Very Professional Blogger, You either have got first hand knowledge of what your discussing or you did some great research. Thanks for this wonderful posting.

  18. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 6:54 am

    So I guess most of you clowns are ready to to take a little step off the Ben Franklin Bridge. Well, at least it’s a beautiful day for it!!

    Look…after a 2-7 road trip, this team went 3-3 on the homestand. They had to face a VERY GOOD Padres team….and they had to face Josh Johnson. There were good signs on the homestand that the Phillies were snapping out of the offensive slump. They even scored 10 runs a few nights ago. Ryan Howard looks better (even though he K’d to end last night’s game) and Raul had a 4-hit game. Chase is hitting the ball hard and has raised his avg a bit. There ARE signs of life.

    Yes. the Phillies have a tough stretch ahead of them. But they can just as easily TAKE 2 of 3 from the BoSox and Yanks as they can drop 2 of 3.

    Last night, Comcast put up a stat that showed that the Phillies record going into last night was actually better than it was last year on the same date. And…..the Phillies are only 2.5 games out of first.

    B R E A T E, everyone. There are still 104 games left in this season ……almost 2/3 of the remaing schedule. It’s a looonnnggg journey.

  19. Johnny Whacko

    June 11, 2010 at 7:00 am

    Jayson: Stop thinking about a whopper of a contract and have fun playing baseball! Everyone of us would love to play MLB for free!

    Has anyone noticed that Jayson’s batting bumper went from Sammy Haggar’s “Heavey Metal” to Metallica’s “Where ever I may roam”????? Good luck brother……at this point you are going to need it!!!!!!!!

    Go Phillies!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 7:03 am

    Oh, and I’m gonna be laughing my a$$ off when in another month or so Jayson Werth is tearing the cover off the ball, winning games with his bat…….and all of you are PLEADING again with Ruben to sign him, sign him , sign him.

  21. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 7:05 am

    See what I mean?

    Guys like Johnny Whacko are exactly the reason why I made that comment about Werth.

  22. Johnny Whacko

    June 11, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Yo’ Chuckie – I sincerely hope you are right. My point was that Jayson should relax and enjoy the game, and play it to his ability and not worry about a contract. Jayson is a great ball player who is waaaaay under performing right now – presumably because he is pressing for a big, set yourself up for life contract. He will return to normal, but in the mean time it is incredibly frustrating to watch!

    Go Phillies!!!!!!!!!!

  23. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 7:21 am


    How do you know that he’s worrying about a contract?? I don’t buy that theory at all. If that was the case then why he blazing hot for the first 6 weeks of the season??

    I agree that it’s frustrating. But I was actually ENCOURAGED by a few of his at-bats last night. He worked the count better and looks like he’s seeing the ball more.

  24. bfo_33

    June 11, 2010 at 7:25 am

    We just faced one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball, needed a perfect game from Doc to beat him last time, and somehow that means the slump continues? While it is the year of the pitcher, there are only a few guys in the NL who are capable of throwing a shut-out every time out – Johnson, Halladay, Jimenez. Fortunately, one is on our team. One poor innning was enough to do him in.

    While the upcoming stretch is going to be tough, the Braves have a similar schedule, and the Mets stink on the road (worst road record in baseball). Stay within 5 at by the All-Star break, and we’ll be ok.

    This site is becoming increasingly frustrating to deal with. While the negativity of the bloggers is one thing, it’s not running very well. Long outtages during the day, and now apparently trying to post 2xs in a 14 hour period is posting too fast – comment blocked. Performance is matching Werth.

  25. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 7:31 am

    Right. My point exactly. Johnson is a flat-out stud. I am sure that with 18 games against the Marlins we haven’t seen the last of him this season.

    Yeah, what’s up the site? I was wondering that as well.

  26. Brooks

    June 11, 2010 at 7:44 am

    Yada yada yada, blah blah blah – it was the same old thing last night. Werth could be batting against “Granny” and the results would still be the same. He has not changed anything at all.

    Cholly, do something! Mix up the lineup, something!
    BTW – it was very predictable, and I even called it when Danny Baez came in I told my buddy – “at least 1 more run on the board”. In the long run it did not matter.

    When Roy tossed his perfecto, he did so with a lot more variety it seemed in his pitch selection. At least early on, I think maybe only 1/2 his pitches were fast balls. Last night he did start out a little rough and there were tons of fast balls. By the third (or maybe 4th?) inning he was mixing it up pretty well.

  27. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 7:59 am

    Brooks, are you serious, dude??

    You’re actually COMPLAINING about Halladay’s outing last night? Comparing it to his perfect game by saying that he had “more variety it seemed in his pitch selection.”

    Does anyone realize just how difficult it is to throw like Halladay does….being that consistent in 99% of his starts? Then the guy goes out and throws a perfect game and people expect him to be like that every time.

    Also, Charlie HAS mixed up the lineup during the past two weeks. What else can he do? The offensive slump like we saw is over. Guys are breaking out of it. We ran into a VERY GOOD PITCHER in Josh Johnson. Give the guy props for pitching a good game.

    And, Brooks, did you actually watch some of Werth’s at-bats last night? If you did you would have noticed A LOT more plate discipline….taking more pitches, fouling more off. My money is for him to be back to normal in the next 5 games.

  28. Brooks

    June 11, 2010 at 8:04 am

    Chuck, just making an observation about Roy and what I have seen from Roy pitching.

    And yes, I watched every at bat Jayson had. His 2 strike outs and the fly ball to right. And I still think Jayson is confused.

  29. charlie

    June 11, 2010 at 8:04 am

    This week spells the end of the NL east race for the Phils. This year we go into inyerleague play sucking and we suck in interleague anyway. The Braves will have a 7 or 8 game lead by father’s day. No offense and with Valdez and a bench that has Greg Dobbs as a pinch hitter, this mighty lineup is weak. Will Jayson Werth ever get another hit?

  30. Brooks

    June 11, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Mixing it up, perhaps taking Jayson out of the 5th spot, maybe he will lighten up on his swing some and perhaps just make contact. Maybe Chase could also find another spot in the batting order – maybe start more of Francisco (or better yet, bring up Brown or Mayberry – who cares!) and let Jay or Raul think about what is going on for a while.

    That would mix it up.

  31. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 8:15 am

    Yeah, the Raul that got 4 hits the other night. Guess he needs to think about it.

    Bringing up Brown is a desperation move that makes no sense at this point. Mayberry sucks. Francisco IS getting some playing time and I would imagine will get more as time goes on.

    I agree that Dobbs is hurting the team with his wasted at-bats. When J-Roll come off the DL my vote is for Castro and Valdez to remain and for Dobbs to be released.

    And to comment on what was said above about Valdez….granted, he’s not Larry Bowa….but he’s hitting better than Dobbs (around .250 I think) and his defense has been pretty good. He’s not here to be an All-Star. So give the guy some slack.

  32. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Boston matchups will be interesting…

    Moyer vs. Lackey: Moyer has been awesome, but who knows what he will bring tonight. Lackey is a horse but his ERA is high. The Phillies should be able to smack him around a bit I would think.

    Blanton vs Dice-K: The edge has to be with Dice-K, although I would imagine he won’t flirt with another no-no. Blanton is DUE for a big performance.

    ? vs. Wakefield: I would think that the Phils will make the necessary adjustments in facing the knuckleballer again. As good as Wakefield was a few weeks back, he could just as easily suck this time around.

    Let’s steal 2 of 3 in Boston!!

  33. Brooks

    June 11, 2010 at 9:07 am

    I turned on the TV while getting ready for the game yesterday. Giants vs the Reds – guess who I saw at the plate? Yep, our Patty Cake is back. Since rejoining the NL, he is 5 for 15, no hrs, 2 rbi – it was fun to see that big O’ swing.

    Easy Chuck, I am not pressing or hinting to get Patty back!

  34. Brian Michael

    June 11, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Remember the ’93 team? They didn’t get shutout until September…

  35. Brooks

    June 11, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Someone said on a previous post – and it may have been you Chuck – the Phils seem to do better facing lower ERA’s. I believe the quote was something like “the Phils raise a low ERA and lower a high ERA..”

    We’ll see – heading into the AL portion of the schedule has been a nightmare for the past couple of seasons.

  36. Marc H

    June 11, 2010 at 9:24 am

    It’s starting to look like the Phillies end this month with an overall record of under .500. In this 15 Inter-leaguer stretch, I’d be surprised (and almost relieved) if they manage to win 5

  37. Wis

    June 11, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Yer all so fickle its pathetic. Not make the playoffs…paleeze. Werths done, send him out to pasture. Howard sucks since his contract, Hammels had a kid and he misses his wife…blahblahblah.

    and you consider yourselves phans. I’m keeping the faith, it is “just a game” and you are witnessing baseball history with this core crew of guys, including Werth. The short sighted attitudes here stink. And all the mets fans here can suck lady gagas apllebum.

  38. Mark

    June 11, 2010 at 10:08 am

    That is the good news about this team. As bad as it is right now we have hope. The Mets have no hope. They just plain stink. We have our big guys that can get hot at anytime. Just not a huge fan of Amaro. I have never been a fan. I just wish he held off on Rollins, and Howard. Our bullpen is just really bad and we have no pinch hitters. We need to turn this around against Boston. I just hope Moyer doesnt get crushed.

  39. Ed R.

    June 11, 2010 at 10:44 am

    I honestly think the Phillies are about to go 4-11 during this year’s interleague play…might put the Phillies in last place and if there is any justice, give them the wake up call that they seemingly need. Of course they could surprise is all and go 11-4, oh if wishes were horses.

  40. That Balls Outta Here

    June 11, 2010 at 10:59 am

    We tend to drift into this mode during low points like this where we make the most negative, “poor pitiful me” comments and predictions, because in some weird, otherworldly way, we just want to be proven wrong. That way, if the Phils do turn it around, we can be pleasantly surprised, and if they continue failing, we can play the role of crotchety “I-told-you-so” guy.

    Saying that the Phillies won’t make the playoffs and “that’s a fact,” falls into this category. However, that’s pretty far reaching when you consider that it is so early in the season that any team in baseball right now could not make the playoffs if they hit a rough enough spot.

    Its like Randy Quaid’s character in Major League II. Which I’m sure we’ve all seen. Many times. Hell, its 11am on a weekday–go turn on TBS, its probably on right now.

  41. Ryan Morrison

    June 11, 2010 at 11:07 am

    It certainly is bad times right now, but we have to look at the upside of things. As bad as the Phillies are playing right now they are only 2.5 games out of first place. The Braves haven’t shown consistency in the past five years, so you gotta figure they will eventually fall apart. The Mets are simply just terrible and are gunna lose 2 outta 3 to the O’s this weekend. The Phillies are doing what they did in ’08 when they went off onto the west coast series’ against the Dodgers and Padres. They stopped hitting and they got it back later in the season and won the whole damn thing. It’s time for the Phillies to get their heads out of their asses and stick it to Boston to begin their championship run. LETS GO PHILLIES

  42. beta sigma delta shag

    June 11, 2010 at 11:10 am

    What some of you are missing about the slump continues, it was just not 10 runs the other night against the fish, they put 5 against SD and had 8-10 hits a few games with not runs. Except for Jayson, the bats are coming around slowly. The problem with sitting Jayson, which I think Charlie should for more than just one day, like maybe for the entire Sox series is that you have no lefties that can play in the outfield, Gload is terrible in the field, Dobbs is not an outfielder, so it is really on Fransisco that can play in the field. Assuming that Gload will DH against righties then Jayson/Fransisco against Lefties.
    Also I still have faith in this team, they are only 2.5 games back and Atlanta has been smoking hot for 2 weeks they can not keep that up. Just like the phillies can not keep up looking so bad.
    On a side note is there any news about Happ out there it has been a while has he had any rehab starts

  43. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Sorry but it appears Bop Myers is correct, “even the most optimistic Phillies fan can see something is not right with this team.” As we quickly approach .500 (in the WRONG direction) it is becoming more of a time to panic. This isnt even embarrasing or pathetic anymore. Baez isnt even complete JUNK honestly, that would be too nice to junk. Maybe we could ship him off to some little league team somewhere? Did RAJ really go out and get him or did Charlie push for that bum? It appears that was mostly Charlie. Either way, having a “closed door meeting” and then “they will break out of it” and all that other junk he is saying is obviously not working. Much to my surprise, the 10 runs came with Ben Fran at the plate. Interesting. Just when I thought he was just as bad as Werth at the plate during this slump. Now to Werth. He always goes through slumps, but I dont remember it being this bad. The fact that the Phillies have to come out and try to do “damage control” to say this slump has nothing to do with his contract really should tell you something. it tells me he is upset that Howard (even I am starting to doubt that stupid contract in the middle of the freaking season) pissed him off. When Howard got that contract, BOTH of them stopped hitting. As for “The final hit of the night for the Fightin’-(less) came on a double by Shane Victorino in the third. That was it.” That was it off of JJ. Palanco hit a 1 out double in the 9th, then Chase Utley hit a ground ball for the 2nd out, and up comes the ultimate in Rally killers this season. Howard to Strike out. Swing at the forst two pitches. as for ther quote Brooks, that was me. That often is the case, now they are extremely good at lowering EVERYONES ERA. What is the answer? personally, I think the first answer is to fire Milt. I have never been a fan of him being a “batting” coach. I wont even use the term hitting because when this team slumps, they REALLY slump. Last season when the team was slumping Milt didnt do or talk to any of them from what most of us could see, it was J-Roll who took it upon himself to point things out to the other guys on the team. GET RID OF HIM! How many more shut outs do we need to watch? I also find it absolutely mind boggling that Moyer with a 3.98 ERA and a WHIP close to 1 STILL has people saying how bad he sucks. Some of you people are just haters and cant come to the realization that you are morons. “Moyer has done well against teams that cant hit”. HMM. Wierd because I seem to recall Jamie Moyer throwing a 2-hit CG Shut Out against the Braves…Remember they are in first place now, as the Phillies are flailing and falling to third? Oh wait what about the Padres, they cant hit either can they…They were in first place, managed 10 hits in 8 innings against Halladay and Moyer is so horrendously bad that he gave up 7 hits 2 ER’s in 9 INNINGS. For the slow people (namely the other Brian) that is a COMPLETE GAME. How can some of you people even call yourselves fans, or even try to say you know anything about Baseball. DUH. Do I expect Moyer to go out there everyday and pitch like that? NO. But you may also want to remember he is supposed to be a #5 starter. Last year the offense had to get pissed at the pithing, this year the pitching should be having the offenses BUTT’S. Doc should have 1 loss now. Sorry folks, I dont care who the pitcher is, there is NO excuse to get shut out. Last night would have been a different story if the Fish had won 2-1. I honestly dont even expect Doc to go out there and throw a goose egg everytime. I expect 8-9 innings, 1 maybe 2 ER’s from Doc, and that should be the closest you will ever get to a guaranteed win. When the offense comes out and says “we go through this every year no one is really worried about it”.. Thats a bad thing. Sure there is PLENTY of time to turn it around, but Lets keep things in perspective. Lets try to see if the Offense can consistantly score, lets say 4 runs a game for 5 games in a row. I would rather see 4 runs a game for 5 games in a row, than see the Phillies score 5 in a game, then 10, then 0 again. I dont completely agree we have not pinch hitters. Ross Gload is a pretty darn good pinch hitter, but Charlie likes to go to Ben Fran (who REALLY surprised me the other day) all the time instead of Gload. What else can be done? The team has shown very little as far as caring or really looking to turn it around, they seem content in thinking they will win it in the last 2 weeks again, and Charlie hasnt really show much of any other sense of urgency either. Status quo it appears for Charlie. If this team falls below .500, which appears to be inevitable, someone must go. My first choice is Milt. A team like this should NOT fall below .500, much less flirt with it. But then again, the Phillies will not be the first time in history to win the NL then miss the playoffs the next year, it is just magnified because they won the WS in 2008, then the NL in 2009. Remember the 2006 Cardinals? They won the World Series then missed the playoffs completely the next couple of seasons.

  44. Ed R.

    June 11, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Milt must go, glad someone else is on board.

  45. The Original Chuck P

    June 11, 2010 at 11:43 am

    The Marlins did what you have to do against pitchers like Halladay and Johnson… you have to take advantage of what you can get early because once they settle in and realize what’s working for them, it’s over. We had our chance in the early going, too but didn’t capitalize. I give Josh Johnson all the credit and in no way fault Doc; it could have went either way.

    I think that the Phillies are gearing up for the release of Greg Dobbs… he’s not giving them anything. Putting him in last night against Johnson was setting him up to fail. The question is, who replaces him? Cody Ransom is only hitting .231 at AAA but he also has 13 HR. Matt Rizzotti is hitting the cover off the ball at AA.

  46. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 11:44 am

    I said last season also. I always like Milt as a player, and liked the fact that they brought a former Phillie in to be a coach (at first), but sorry Milt, you SUCK as a “batting” coach. Ed R. it appears to be we often agree, I am not surprised we agree on this one either.

  47. Don M

    June 11, 2010 at 11:52 am

    jumping in late … but did anyone actually see the pitch that Uggla hit for a HR ?? It was a good piece of hitting, not really a bad pitch

    It was a 2-seam fastball that started off the plate, and was tailing on the outside that Uggla (known for his HR power) hit out to RF (with the wind blowing to RF, in our HR friendly park)

    Has Baez been great? No, not at all …. but I wouldn’t say he was horrible and cost us the game last night.

    BLAMING MILT THOMPSON for this current streak would be ridiculous… we dont praise him and ask for his extension when the bats are hot because it’s the PLAYERS that are up their with the bats …… Hitting Coaches are just that, coaches .. they aren’t magicians. The craziest thing is that all of these hitters are slumping at the same time..

    Why Victorino can’t constantly be on base, to open holes, hit and run, etc.. for the guys behind him is crazy to me ..

    He’s among the faster players in baseball, yet he swings for the fences (even more than Rollins)… he never throws down bunts or uses his speed …. The biggest problem with this team is that with Rollins and Polanco out .. the 3-4-5 started pressing

    now Polanco is back in, and you see Utley and Howard starting to have better at-bats with Polanco on base, or working counts to see more pitches, etc..

    The Phillies will be alright, we’re still a playoff team

  48. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Don M. I agree we dont “we dont praise him and ask for his extension when the bats are hot” HOWEVER, Milt should be doing something. For instance tell Victorino no to “swing[s] for the fences”. It just appears to me that instead of “Coaching” Milt just sits there. Obviously none of us are in the club house, but watching the games, it appears to me Milt sits there like a bump on a log. To me, if your team is slumping, the “batting” coach should get up off your lazy duff (funny I am saying that as I am sitting on my lazy duff typing this) and COACH. Say something. Tell them to take a different approach. watch tapes, do something besides sit there and watch the game. It is the coaches job to coach the players and tell them what they might be doing wrong, or what they could change. I remember last season J-Roll started doing that, and started “coaching” some other players on the team as far as hitting, and at one point, in the middle of a slump similar (just no this bad) that player (I dont remember who) came out, changed their approach, and hit a home run, followed by a double, and continued to hit for a few weeks after. Obviously it was that player who was hitting and playing, but would the player really have known that maybe changing their approach really could have affected that much if J-Roll didnt take it upon himself to do Milt’s job?

  49. Bart Shart

    June 11, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Nothing to do , and can’t do that………….

  50. Don M

    June 11, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    His job is to watch video, break down pitchers, extra batting practice, soft toss, hitting off the tee .. etc … all day, everyday

    to suggest that he (or any major league coach), just sits around and watches is pretty dumb. There is a reason that these guys get to the ballpark 8 hours before game time… THAT is when they practice and then go over the approach, and then practice some more… and then watch more tape, and then practice more.. and then stretch, and then take extra BP , etc ..

    MOST of baseball is behind-the-scenes.. but for people to suggest Milt Thompson is the cause of their HOT or COLD hitting (at any time) is pretty ridiculous.. Pretty soon we’re going to hear how Dubee should be fired because Madson kicked that chair in San Francisco …and Dubee should have told him to take a better approach to that chair. Instead of a straight-kick, he should have gone about it some other way

  51. bfo_33

    June 11, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Brian of CO – you need to put in paragraphs. A nice rant, many good points (some of which I agree with), but just got too painful to finish.

    I really believe the Phils bats are coming around, and think the Dice-K and Wakefield are going to take a beating. One thing that could help Werth and the Phils – tell Werth he’s bating lead-off through the AL series, focus on making contact. We’ve all seen his potential, but right now it isn’t helping the team much. Looks like his eye is back, now make contact, then try to drive the ball solidly. Power will come.

    Proposed order:
    Ibanez (DH)

  52. Thomas Jones

    June 11, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Forget nominating anyone (Phillies) for All-Star Game.

    If you have tickets to Phillies game, sell them to Stub-Hub.

    If you are just thinking of getting tickets to a Phillies gam, save your money and buy something worthwhile or even better yet, donate the money you would have spent at the park to a worthwhile charity.


  53. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 12:32 pm


    Agreed, I will start to go that… 🙂

    Sorry DonM, Im not really much of a Dubee fan either. No response to J-Roll doing the coaching last season as Milt sat there is intersting though. 🙂

  54. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Thomas Jones, thats a great idea, the Phillies are playing poorly, so be a fair weather band wagon fan, like most Mets fans and stop going. DUH.

    Just because the Phillies are playing like utter crap, and some of us have harsh words doesnt mean we are not fans anymore. Although apparently thats what it means to you.

  55. Don M

    June 11, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    All the players talk all game long … so Rollins saying something, to someone, at some point last season, in a game …. isn’t some groundbreaking news

    Most of the times the players talk to the other players saying something like.. “when you’re standing at the plate, it looks a lot different from the video view we watched from CF… his curveball is spinning sideways, instead of down, so look for that if it starts in on your hands”

    if that counts as “Coaching” .. then we had 25 extra coaches on our team.. the same as every other team in baseball

  56. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Point taken about the players talking, and while J-Roll is probably the most outspoken of the bunch, he was taking a more active role than seen in seasons past to me honestly, using not only words bu visuals. Either way, lets hope someone can get through to this team. Yes there are signs of the team waking up, but wow this is getting kind of painful. I think at this point, we just agree to disagree. You appear to think Milt is doing a fine job, I do not.

  57. Don M

    June 11, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I dont think any of us would ever know what kind of job Milt Thompson is doing … at this stage of their careers, how much wisdom and impact should he have on Victorino, Polanco, Utley, Howard, and Werth’s abilities to hit a baseball ??

    When we started the year and everyone was hitting .400 . …. we were saying its because the players are great baseball players .

    Now that everyone is hitting .260-.280 .. its Thompson getting the blame?

    it just doesnt make sense to me.. the players know how to do their jobs, and how to prepare each day to get the job done. But in following baseball in the Free Agent era, there has been lots of talk about players thinking they are above the game, and above their coaches (Hanley Ramirez saying his manager “never even played in the majors” comes to mind) …. maybe these guys just don’t TAKE COACHING very well

    I place all credit, and all blame on the players for their performances.. Thompson can’t make them swing at good pitches.. and he can’t make Werth stop swinging at the nose-high Fastball that he can’t catch up to

  58. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Well that is 1 thing I 100% agree with…”players thinking they are above the game” Hanley Ramirez being the best example of that.

  59. George

    June 11, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Last year, maybe Rollins did do some coaching. But in the early part of the year, he was absolutely horrible. Who helped him straighten out? Who made suggestions to him? I believe it was Thompson.

    Also, people need to quit harping on Amaro’s bench. He certainly can’t control the fact that Gload went suddenly from being the best pinch hitter in the league last year to being pretty much worthless this year. Gload is still better than Stairs, Castro is way better than Bruntlett, Schnieder is better than Bako, and Amaro also signed Valdez, who turned out to be desperately needed what with all the injuries to infielders. Francisco and Dobbs were already on the team, but you can’t fault him in thinking that Dobbs would recover from 2009’s injuries (he had had a very good 2008), or fault him for Francisco’s so far not giving the performance he’s capable of.

  60. Mark

    June 11, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Tom I dont do any of that anyway. I have always enjoyed baseball and root for the Phillies. The sport is becoming a joke. The salaries of these players is crazy for what they do. I will never support there moneny. I do not buy anything with the phillies. I will never go to a game and spend all that money. I listen to the games on the radio. Free. To see Ryan Howard make 125 million for doing nothing kills me. None of these guys are worth that money but if you get it you should be hitting homers.

  61. Philly Texan

    June 11, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    I agree with Don.

    Firing Milt Thompson smells of desperation. The guy was the hitting coach for an offense that’s led the league in scoring how many years in a row now? Did he suddenly become a terrible coach?

    How does anyone on this site know if Milt is a good hitting coach or not? Are you standing around the cage or watching video with these guys?

    The slump is on the players.

  62. psujoe

    June 11, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Werth is 6 for his last 51. He needs more than one day off. Why bring back a struggling hitter against Johnson. Ugh. Werth needs to sit and sit for like 3 or 4 games.

  63. Mark

    June 11, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    well look at the brightside. werth will not get paid.

  64. Don M

    June 11, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    well since the next 3 pitchers were, Lackey (who is also a tough lefty) … Dice-K (who almost NO-HIT the phillies a few weeks ago)… and then Wakefield (a knuckleballer)

    at some point you stop worrying about the matchups, and you just let your best players play

    Trust me, I’m a true player myself .. fa sho

    Holler back

  65. Chuck

    June 11, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Like I said earlier….the Boston matchups will be interesting. We COULD win 2 of 3.

    And just to quickly chime in on the Milt Thompson “issue”…..seriously?? We’re going to blame HIM now??

    Oh, and to retiterate about the bench…..Dobbs is the only one right now that needs to go. Maybe bring up Cody Ransom at some point?? I would imagine that Valdez MIGHT be picked up by another team if he’s sent down?? I like him as a bench player but not sure if he needs to stay or go….in the long run. Thoughts anyone??

  66. teejvee

    June 11, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    How things change in one year.

    Last year, the Phillies had 5, maybe even 6 players that were probably the the best at their position in the NL EAST.

    This year they have one player ( Victorino) who is even in the top 2.

    And I’m going by performance, not past reputation.

  67. Phan in the outfield

    June 11, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    A couple friendly suggestions: 1st, the real “negativity” I consistently see is almost entirely against Werth. Ppl pls knock it off. Why is he the scapegoat? Nobody knows what’s in his head; he’s angry @ Howard and counting dollars for his new contract, etc. Read your posts. You sound a little nutty. He’s not resp for all the ills of an entire team. NOBODY IS HITTING. Perhaps Werth’s predicament might look worse b/c he began the season on such a high making this low seem worse. I’m just guessing.

    2nd: Dude likes metal music, who cares about the title. Crying out loud – talk about reading too much in. Nobody has ever made anything out of Utley’s song being the drug tune “Cashmere” by Led Zepplin – and he never changes his song. Big deal.

    Johnny Whacko: Chuck is right, one day, hopefully sooner rather than later, you’ll regret your statements about Werth and you’ll hope we can keep him.

    Brian: Prior to the 1st game v the Marlins, Francisco was mediocre on his VERY BEST day. Both teams hit in that game. Francisco was no natural wonder, except for the fact that he managed to ping off at least 4 walls and the ground in RF and walk away WITHOUT ever catching a ball.

    I’ve never played anything but catcher on a HS softball team. I can’t pretend to know anything about what it might take to put together or keep together a pro team, or make it run well or smoothly. God knows what might get one pro player out of slump, let alone an entire team. BUT my hunch is there’s a lack of leadership in the clubhouse. Why else would the team as a whole tank at once? Is it JRoll that’s missing? I don’t know. But I want someone SOMEONE to step up. Fix it. It’s humiliating & depressing.

  68. Mark

    June 11, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    teejvee, why do you care so much about the phillies. i think down deep you love the team. i saw once you said you rooted for the Mets. Thats why I guess your here all the time. If I was a Mets fan, I would bash my head into a door until I was numb enough to watch them play.

  69. Philly Texan

    June 11, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    I’m staying optimistic.

    Let’s look at the big picture. BEfore the season most of us agreed that Hamels and Lidge were the keys to the season. Well, they’re looking awfully good lately.

    The rotation has been good. The bullpen is coming around.

    The offense, of course, sucks. But I’m not going to give up on them until J-Roll comes back and gets healthy.

    Howard will get hot. Utley will wake up. I hope Werth will too.

    With J-roll up top and Shane hitting 6th or 7th, this can still be a good offense. The Phils can still get hot later in the season and win the division—especially if the pitching holds up.

    So let’s not jump off any bridges yet. This slump is definitely worse than past years, but that doesn’t mean they won’t get hot.

    Keep the Paith, y’all

  70. Phan in the outfield

    June 11, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Mark: You’re hilarious.
    PhillyTexan: I’m with ya all the way. In fact I think if anything is assured it is that Utley, Howard, and Werth WILL get hot. I’d just like it to be sooner rather than later. This is the same team that won the division 3x, the championship 2x, and went to the WS 2x, winning in ’08.

    I’m keeping the phaith. Admittedly watching bad games is hard, & this may get worse before it gets better (3 Sox games, 3 Wankee games) but they’ll pull out of it. I believe that. They’ll be great again in time to win this division.

  71. RichieAllen

    June 11, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Dont panic yet boys….A couple of years ago , this would have been considered a good position.

  72. Mark

    June 11, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Thanks Phan….I could never even watch a Mets game. This team at some point during the season will catch fire. The good news is our division doesnt have teams like the Yankees. Nobody will run away with it. Just stay in it and put the petal to the metal.

  73. teejvee

    June 11, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Believe me , you never saw me say I rooted for the Mets. Never.

    That is just some nonsense some ( )bags say on another board.

    I just call ’em like I see em.

  74. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    And yet with how HORRIBLY bad the Phillies are playing, they are still onl 2.5 games back. That is definately a bright side. I agree with Phan in the outfield, the team does appear to be lacking leadership, but hard to tell. As for Ben Fran, still not 100% sold on him. He had a double a few weeks back, and drove in a few runs, which just so happened to be the game winning runs in the 10 run game, but overall, seems too inconsitent, but I am starting to wonder if a few days rest would help Werth. Werth always goes through these “Werthless” times, and this year, he is doing it at the same time as the rest of the team. Werth will snap out of it I would think, and I believe this team will figure it out. The other alarming thing for me though is the amount of errors. True some of them are from the back up’s, but not all of them. It appears to be an overall lack of focus from the positional players/offense. Not wure why, or what will help, but that is a little alarming.

    The season is FAR from over. I said it is “becoming” more of a time to panic. I do not advocate a full on panic mode just yet. Hopefully they will break out before that happens, which is funny, I remember some people (Geoff) FLIPPING OUT las season, after only 2 weeks of the season saying that people (Utley, Howard Werth) needed to be traded or benched…DUH. This is just really getting old.

    When will the slump end? No one knows. I hope it ends before Howard hits his stride…Why do I say that? Because Howard is notoriously a 2nd half player. he starts hitting in July, and then LOVES August and September!

    As for Lidge and Hamels? Philly Texan is correct. Hamels I dont think is quite back to ’08 form, but I will take this Hamels over ’09 Hamels ANY DAY. Still a bit inconsistent, but over all, I have been VERY pleased with his performances. Lidge…From the innings I have seen him pitch recently (gotta love DirecTV to be able to see all the game here in CO), his velocity appears to be up from last year, but I dont have a speed gun…His slider seems to be flat out wicked again. I said all of last season he was more injured then what he or Charlie were leading everyone to believe. Early for him as well, but it appears his velocity, location, and breaking on the ball seem to be back for the most part. Granted, I do now expect full ’08 form from Lidge. Meaning I dont expect 0 blown saves, but as long as it isnt double digit blown saves with a 7+ ERA like ’09, that should be fine. I expect more along the lines of an ERA similar to what he has now, and maybe 3 or 4 blown saves honestly. Preferrably none, but be real.

    bfo_33, How am I doing with the paragraphs? 🙂 Also trying not to write a “War and Peace” novel again!

  75. Reem

    June 11, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Maybe if the team (especially Werth) weren’t all out getting tanked at the Flyers game the night before, they would’ve been able to hit yesterday.

  76. Mark

    June 11, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Who do you root for Tee? You must love the Phillies. You are leaving alot of comments. There really is no reason to kill these guys. They are not playing well at all. They are in the majors. Im sure you wish you were good enough to be there as well. They also have a ring to show. Pretty impressive.

  77. Phan in the outfield

    June 11, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Yo Reem – You SAW Jayson Werth “tanked” at the Flyers game? Was he falling down? Staggering around? Did he throw up on someone? Yell at ppl? Get into fights? I didn’t see or hear about any of that.
    Ryan Madson was the one I saw two-fisting beers at the game. And btw, he’s on the DL for a broken toe & he was there w/o a surgical boot. Now THAT’S interesting to me.
    Jimmy Rollins, Ben Francisco & Shane Victorino were at A BAR, not the game, w/one of the Eagles (an offensive lineman) ostensibly to watch the game.
    From what I saw it looked to me as though Werth was actually interested in & watching the game.

  78. psujoe

    June 11, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    I’d give Ransom a shot. Nice power against righties.

    Have you guys seen Singleton’s stats. Kid is ripping up the South Atlantic league hitting .410 with 6 dingers in 100 Abs and he hasn’t turned 19 yet(September).

  79. Don M

    June 11, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    3 of Hamels’ 5 losses were GREAT starts..

    two were 8 innings of 2 run-ball, that they lost.. the other was 6.1 innings- 2 ER

    he had another NO DECISION..8 innings 1 ER against the Cardinals

    so we could EASILY be 9-2, with a 3.98 ERA, and 70 Ks right now ….instead he’s 5-5 with those numbers.

    Hamels is back as a legit #2 starter

  80. Phan in the outfield

    June 11, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    I’m not a big fan of Hamels, never have been. He makes me somehow uneasy. Can’t put my finger on it. But Don M is right. In fact a 1 or 2 of KK’s losses might not have been his fault either.

  81. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 11, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Overall I agree with you Don M, the problem that I see is, prior to the Phillies going out and getting that guy who will remain nameless who completely down the Yankmees in the WS (we all know who that is),
    Hamels was not supposed to be a #2. Granted now we have Halladay, and honeslty, there are not many who would start ahead of Halladay in any rotation, I dont know that Hamels would be the Ace in any rotation, because he still goes out like he did his last outing, give up 3 runs in the first inning prior to the rain delay. That being said, I would take this hamels over ’09 any day of the week. Same being said about Halladay and Moyer. If Halladay got a consistent 3 runs per game, he would be what 9-1, 10-1? I forget. Moyer would be 7-3 probably.

  82. Don M

    June 11, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Hamels would be the ACE on…

    Blue Jays
    White Sox

    When Hamels was needed to be the ACE of OUR STAFF.. in 2008, he was… now he’s the #2 … and there aren’t many #2 pitchers in baseball that I would rather have …. He’s better than AJ Burnett, so he’d be the Yankees #2 (his best is better than Phil Hughes’ best so far) … etc

  83. psujoe

    June 11, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    not to nitpuick, but Lee will be the Yankees #2 soon and Strasburg sure looked like an ace the other night.

  84. Roy

    June 11, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    Hey we gotta trade ibanez right nooow, wth is wrong with those numbers 3 hrs? 240 avg? lol no power on his swing we gotta get something by trading him and some minor league prospects, alex rios, magglio ordonez i don’t care, we gotta replace him.

  85. Robert

    June 12, 2010 at 12:45 am

    Umm I love this version of Hamels, throwing the change more and mixing in some cutters as well, but ace of the ‘Stros? There’s this decent guy named Oswalt on that staff (not to mention a rejuvenated Brett Myers haha – but I’d take Hamels over him anyday, cept for hitting in playoff games).
    OK all this Jayson Werth bashing has to stop. The guy is slumping, yes, but every single major league hitter goes through a roller coaster of a season – nobody goes 1 for 3 or 2 for 4 game in, game out. Just over a month ago Jayson Werth was one of the best hitters in the NL, and from that hot streak he is STILL tied for the team lead in RBI with $5 footlong. Granted, 51 AB is a long slump, but to me that just means he’s gonna snap out of it sooner rather than later. Even against Josh Johnson he had an 11-pitch AB in I think the 4th inning and made great contact with the ball, it was just a few feet short of carrying out of the park. If that had gone out would we all still be pretending to be psychiatrists analyzing the inner workings of his mind? Didn’t think so…
    So just lay off him and weather the storm. As far as this chatter about a lethargic clubhouse – no way that keeps up once Rollins comes back. I think he means a lot more to us than just swinging the bat and playing a good shortstop…he’s the vocal leader we’ve been missing, that “lack of leadership in the clubhouse” didn’t seem to be a problem the first month of the season before he got injured. Let’s just all hope for a speedy return from both Rollins and Happ (pitching depth is never a bad thing) and stop clamoring about firing the hitting coach of a team that has been a top-2 offense in all of baseball the last couple of years.
    C’mon guys, are we really gonna live and die 162 different times throughout the baseball season? It s a long ride, get ready for the good part coming up pretty soon 🙂

  86. Mayeux

    June 15, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    It took the Mexican government 10 months to cap the leaking Ixtoc I. 3 months into the Deepwater Horizon and its beginning to look as bleak.

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