Phillies Squander Many Opportunities in Loss to Nationals – Phillies Nation
2012 Game Recaps

Phillies Squander Many Opportunities in Loss to Nationals

Gio was too much for the Phillies (AP)

Washington came out on top in the opener of the set, winning 2-1.

KENDRICK KEEPS PHILS IN IT

-Kyle Kendrick really struggled to throw strikes early, yet kept his team well within striking distance. His best inning was the fifth when he retired the Nationals on just seven pitches.

-Somehow, someway, Kendrick was able to finish seven innings, giving up two runs on five hits. KK struck out four and walked two. His final three innings were much better than the first four, which is what kept him in the game long enough. Overall, not a terrible effort overall.

-To end the game, the Phillies retired the final 17 Nationals that stepped to the plate after Ian Desmond’s RBI single in the fourth and Danny Espinosa’s walk right after.

OFFENSE KEEPS THEM OUT

-No surprise here, the Phillies offense could not completely figure out Gio Gonzalez. In the third, they had the bases loaded and got nothing out of it. In the sixth inning, they had runners at second and third with nobody out and again managed zero runs.

-They just cannot get runners home when they need to. Getting guys on base really isn’t the issue, it’s having them touch home once they’re on. Talk about frustrating. In that sixth, Hunter Pence hit a rocket right at Rick Ankiel. Then, Carlos Ruiz smoked a ball right at Adam LaRoche. The Nats first baseman did this smart thing and easy gunned out Placido Polanco trying to score. John Mayberry flew out for the third out of the frame. Your 2012 Phillies, everyone.

-I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the Phils also struggled with the Nats bullpen. Another squandered opportunity in the eighth inning may have been the most frustrating. With two on and one out, Hunter Pence (stop me if you’ve heard this) swung at a first pitch, popping up to third base. Carlos Ruiz then grounded out to end the threat.

-In the ninth, John Mayberry led off with a four pitch walk off a wild Henry Rodriguez. He then moved to second on a one-out wild pitch, and to third on a single by Mike Fontenot. Mayberry made a bit of a blunder by not scoring on a wild pitch, but would touch home after Rodriguez was sent to the showers. Sean Burnett came in and gave up a sac fly to Ty Wigginton. But, the Phillies could not get that tying run home as Hector Luna walked, leading to a lineout by Polanco to end the game.

-With runners in scoring position, the Phillies finished 1-for-10 and left a total of 10 men on base.

GONZALEZ AND HARPER

-In his first at-bat, Bryce Harper was met with a loud chorus of boos. After the fans settled, Harper went 2-for-4 with a couple of singles.

-Gio Gonzalez had a decent night, but that’s mostly because the Phillies could not capitalize. He struck out nine in six inning, but did walk three while allowing three hits. However, it was a goose egg on the scoreboard where it matters most. The former Phillies farm hand lowered his ERA in the process to 1.98. Gonzalez also leads the majors in strikeouts, leaping over Justin Verlander, with 69.

NOTES

-Raul Valdes pitched two great innings. Getting more from him and Diekman would be huge. They need reliable arms in the pen.

-The weather is supposed to be just as crappy tomorrow. It’ll be another good pitching matchup regardless of the conditions. Jordan Zimmerman faces Roy Halladay. Expect few runs, again.

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0 Comments

  1. Tom

    May 21, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    Yes, this team is leaving men on base and having trouble scoring again in the last three games but we expected that until Utley & Howard and now Thome and Nix come back from injuries! However, you failed to mention that replay showed that Harper was out after he over slid the bag on his stolen base and then later scored the 2nd run! This team is having trouble scoring runs, but it doesn’t help when the umpires give teams extra runs especially with Gio on the mound!! MLB & the umpires union refuse to embrace technology, but that technology shows every day how bad these umpires really are!!

    • artemis

      May 21, 2012 at 10:16 pm

      I agree, we’re suffering the absence of Howard, Utley, Nix, and Thome. We’ve come pretty close to scoring but truly we’re short of our all star hitters. And yes, those umpires are getting worse each year…

  2. Andrew from Waldorf

    May 21, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    The beauty of baseball is there is always tomorrow.

    And pretty soon Utley and Howard will be back.
    The look out!!!!!!!!!!!

    • LCMRSalazar85

      May 21, 2012 at 10:29 pm

      Wish I could share in your optimism about Howard & Utley, but there’s no guarantees that they’re going to pick up where they left off. We can’t get a time table from the front office yet on when the rehab assignments are going to start. We’re getting into a routine similar to where we were in the mid to late 90’s after the 93 season. We got nothing in the minors that can help right the ship when we need it, and the league’s figured out how to hit Doc, Cliff, and Blanton.

    • sakkirook

      May 21, 2012 at 10:40 pm

      “the beauty of baseball is always tomorrow” IN ANOTHER CITY. Fact is the Philthies have succeeded by disappointing their fans (excepting the last five seasons — a mere blip in the cosmic fangraph). It now seems that Reuben, the subhuman, has FUBARed my team for the next karmic-go-round. Enjoy!

  3. sakkirook

    May 21, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    2nd & 3rd … no outs?!! We are doomed!! this pathetic bunch of mis-managed losers curdles my beer. What scumsacks!! Any average bunch of sparetired 50 yearolds could generate more runs than this overpaid lollygagging manurepile deemed the 2012 Phillies!!!

  4. Andrew from Waldorf

    May 21, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    sar·casm/ˈsärˌkazəm/
    Noun:
    The use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

    I get that to older fans it was so bad for so long that your just happy for what we haf the last 5 years.
    But it does not excuse this. This isnt the 80s or 90s. the Phillies have a 175 million dollar pay roll. Thats second in the majors.

    Yea you old timers have seen alot. I remember the 10,000 loss thing and the deal they made of it.
    Bottom line. With that payroll this line up and bench and bullpen should not look like this.

    The way the contracts are structured for the phillies. This is the last year to even have a punchers chance. The future is not bright here.
    So fire whomenver or trade for whoever to try to win it this year.
    Magic eight ball says= not likely.

    For long term chance to contend you will need a new GM ASAP.

    Sorry thats 2 posts Chuck.

  5. Ryne Duren

    May 21, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    . someone should explain to freakin juan samuel what to do when a baqll is hit like the one pence hit! how many times this year allready has he not sent someone when they COULD score then got them thrown out at the plate a short time later. it’s little things like that besides the lack of cluch hitting that makes me doubt if they’ll win consistantly. we are a bad team now sorry to say. we’re doing the dumb things other bad teams used to do when we played them!
    now we do them regularly. as casey stengal once said ” this is a team effort” even the coaching staff are acting stupid. the bright spot of the whole game for me was rollins not in the line up! i was hoping that the personal business was rollins mulling over asking to be traded because the phillies refuse to play like he does. wait! they are!

  6. Don M

    May 21, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    I think Polanco and Mayberry are directly to blame for not scoring from 3b when they had their chances… Mayberry would later score (font should’ve moved to 3rd on that same play) but if Mayberry and Font would’ve both advanced on the Wild pitch it might be a different outcome

    • GM

      May 22, 2012 at 1:18 pm

      First pitch to Wigginton, Mayberry on 3rd & Fontenot on 1st, was a wild pitch, with Fontenot advancing to 2nd, and Mayberry staying at 3rd. I’m not sure Font would have gone first to third there.

  7. bacardipr05

    May 22, 2012 at 1:50 am

    I only partly agree with AFW. Some of the points you made are understandable. One of the main reasons the Phils where bad for so long was the ownership was cheap back then. Here you have a case of injuries and under performing Stars, and sometimes questionable calls by Uncle C. You are correct with a payroll such as ours we shouldnt be like this. Keep in mind 35 Million of that is to two players how are both injured. Sometimes throwing money at the problem isnt always the solution. Utely’s contract was a good one for what he was providing this team. No one in the world could of predicted back then he would be having these issues. Im not going to get into the Howards contract, its been beating to death, here and other blogs. As far as there been a future if the Phils are like the Yankees they can go out and get players. Whilst grooming a few of there own in the process. This is assuming said ownership doesnt decide to cut the budget. You are correct this is a team that is mainly built on win now. So there is a possibility that they may have off years, while they rebuild.

  8. "Big Ed" Delahanty

    May 22, 2012 at 5:50 am

    “Baserunning is elementary, Watson.” -Sherlock Holmes. Of course, for the Phillies, Polanco, and Mayberry it is $&€king quantum physics. Grrrr!

  9. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 7:17 am

    Nothing much more to really say here. Just a piss-poor effort by the offense in so many ways. Gonzalez was completely beatable last night. I know it’s still early but how long are we gonna keep saying that?? And waiting for Utley and Howard to return as though they will somehow walk on water like Jesus did is just plain naive on our part. I am hopeful because I’m a Phillies fan ….but that’s about it right now.

  10. Dave

    May 22, 2012 at 7:36 am

    I feel bad that Pat has to keep writing the same headline over and over again all year.

  11. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 7:39 am

    Piss poor effort? Maybe. How can you discern a piss poor effort from just bad offense. Pence was first pitch swinging last night with men on base and got his pitch. Never mind that it was the first time all night that he had seen that pitcher. He got his pitch and he popped it up. That pitch was a total cripple.

    The Phillies have bad offensive players. What more to say? No power. No OBP. This is what you are gonna get against good pitching. Get used to it. Bad contracts hamstringing Phils, injuries, old guys. Yes. But here we are.

    20 games against good teams. Show me you’re good or show me you’re bad so I know what to do with these players.

    The Dipsy

    • Pat Gallen

      May 22, 2012 at 8:21 am

      It’s funny that Pences pitch always seems to be the first.

  12. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 8:19 am

    Ok. Then it was a piss poor effort by a bad offense. Doesn’t really matter….so many times in this particular game they looked like sh!t.

  13. Manny

    May 22, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Baserunning mistakes killed us in this one. It feels like these type of games are happening very frequently… In the grand scheme of things, however, we’re not always be unlucky and lose these 1-run games… at some point we’ll win some and that should help with our overall record.

  14. Dave

    May 22, 2012 at 9:50 am

    So what happens if we’re 41-40 at the halfway mark and still in last place? Do you sell or buy?

  15. Don M

    May 22, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Why would you sell if you were a .500 team at the halfway mark ??

    Two teams make the Wild Card this year… I seriously think people forget that this team is missing Howard and Utley … and while they wont be the MVP-type players they’ve been in past years, their presence in the lineup will make the lineup more difficult as a whole

    I still think this team is playoff bound, they have too much talent not to be

  16. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 10:32 am

    If you are .500 and 8 games out of the “knockout spot” at the halfway point, and Utley and Howard aren’t back, then I think you gotta look at trading Hamels or Lee or Halladay, depending on who you wanna keep. Plus Polanco, Vic, and even Jimmy. Not to “rebuild”, but to “retool” for next year. You would have to do it right. Which is another matter entirely.

    The Dipsy

  17. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I think you have to well into double digits out of the “knockout spot” in order to think about selling.

  18. hot dog

    May 22, 2012 at 10:44 am

    Polanco needed to be on the bag in the sixth and tagged up when the ball was caught. Even if the ball was not caught he can still score. In the ninth Galvis should have kept the bat on his shoulder and taken a walk he is not a homerun hitter. This club seems to play scared nobody wants to hit when it counts. Mayberry looked scared on that wild pitch afraid to run. Where is all the sabermetric people that say rbis dont matter.

  19. Dave

    May 22, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Of course we haven’t forgotten about Utley and Howard. Someone reminds us about it every 5 minutes. Without continuing to speculate about either of them, they are not playing right now, so we’re basing our season as it stands now without either of them. If you are basically a .500 team at the halfway mark, you’ve got to look to retool and make some changes. And that means no one on the current roster is off limits.

  20. Don M

    May 22, 2012 at 10:59 am

    You’re basing the season as it stands right now and people are calling for dramatic change…. The additions of our 3-4 hitters will be the best moves any team could make at the deadline

  21. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 11:09 am

    I’m really not counting on too much from Utley and Howard. BUT….having Howard in the place of Mayberry/Nix/Wiggy/Luna HAS to be an upgrade …even if Howard is not in great form. And Utley is an upgrade over Galvis (although Galvis has impressed!). I think you then have to use Galvis as your primary utility guy…getting him 3 starts or so per week as he can spell Jimmy, Chase and maybe Polly.

  22. Dave

    May 22, 2012 at 11:19 am

    That’s fine. But my point is that in another month or so, if the team is still plodding along and Utley and Howard are still “rehabbing,” Amaro will have some tough decisions to make.

  23. Don M

    May 22, 2012 at 11:21 am

    A big difference between me and a lot of the fans voicing their opinions is that I look at the players that are underperforming- and see that they SHOULD do better if their career numbers mean anything. Other fans look at the players that are underperforming- and go on daily rants about how they suck, how we should trade them, how they can’t believe Charlie is playing them, etc. . .
    The same fans that bash Jayson Werth for chasing money and “not showing loyalty” are the same fans showing zero loyalty to the guys on our team now… It’s May 22nd, and despite many things, we’re a .500 team…
    Ryan Howard and Chase Utley are out… and we’re still .500
    Jimmy Rollins is underperforming… and we’re still .500
    Cliff Lee has ZERO wins… and we’re still .500
    Our bullpen has been horrible… and we’re still .500
    ……………..

    • Manny

      May 22, 2012 at 11:28 am

      Kyle Kendrick is one of our 5 starters… and we’re still .500
      Shane Victorino (our 2011 MVP) is underperforming… and we’re still .500

      😉

  24. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Don – Rollins is underperforming. Shane…a little. Chooch, Galvis, and Pierre are OVERperforming. I do NOT believe that Utley and Howard are going to make contributions this year. For those reasons, if we are 8ish games out of the knockout spot half way through, I would then choose to focus on the longer term health of the organization than to hope and pray that the team could make a miraculous recovery this year.

    Hope is not a strategy.

    The Dipsy

  25. betasigmadeltashag

    May 22, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Mayberry not scoring on the wild pitch is not that big of a deal especially when his run does not really matter, and just an inning before a runner got thrown out because sometimes the ball bounces right back to the catcher comming off the bricks. It is not having Poly tag up when Ankel was obviously going to leave his feet on a wet field, then sending him on a line drive to first just to get him thrown out, if he was not running on contact he has to stay there, especially since the ball was almonst caught. And if he was going on contact and got thrown out by that much, he should not be running at all.
    And one more thing about Geo, he was a little wild at times last night, he had some nasty stuff, early, and when he needed it. KK pitched well dispite not haveing the control he usually needs to stay in the game.
    I know I am usually more optimistic than many of you on here, but I still think that this team especially if Howard and Utley come back after the All Star game can make a run, and all the teams in the East are really 500 teams, and they are going to be sorry if they do not put 8-10 games between them and the PHillies by the mid point, if they stay 4-5-6 games back they will hit a stride eventually.

  26. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Dipsy – You are right that Utley and Howard won’t make great contributions BASED ON THEIR PAST SUCCESSES. But they WILL contribute just by being in the lineup and allowing everyone else to be in their natural spots in the lineup. They HAVE to be an upgrade over what we have now.

    And I will continue to argue that the Phillies have to be in double digits (and I don’t mean 10) out of the “knockout spot” in order fro the team to significantly sell and not continue competing for a playoff berth.

  27. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Alright. We can agree to disagree. I for one would not wanna see the Phils finish four games out of the knockout spot and then watch Cole walk off without getting anything for him. That would suck. And then oh how they will call for Ruben’s head.

    The Dipsy

    • Jeff Dowder

      May 22, 2012 at 12:23 pm

      You really think that trading Cole for three low level minor league players will save Amaro’s reputation? How well did trading Cliff Lee for the Seattle Three work out?

      They do get a first round pick for losing Cole as a free agent, so they will get something.

  28. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    I said this before… if Cole Hamels isn’t resigned I think Ruben Amaro should be fired. So trading him for some kind of bogus value like Dowder says shouldn’t save his job anyway.

    • Don M

      May 22, 2012 at 1:12 pm

      That’s too firm a stance . . .

      Would you give Hamels a 7-year, $175 M contract ?

      I wouldn’t…

      I’d offer him 5 years, $130, with a 6th year option at $25 M or a $5 M buyout ……more than a fair deal, and likely not enough to keep him in red pinstripes if he’s dead-set on a 7-year-deal…

      If the Phillies make him a fair offer, and he gets offered a monster deal by someone else (Dodgers, Yankees, etc) … for all the bitching that people have done about Howard’s 5-$125, I’m shocked to see people now so willing to break the bank for Hamels, a guy that plays in 35 of 162 games

  29. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Uh Jeff…..you wouldn’t trade him for that. Deeeerrrrrrrrr. If you can’t get some value in return…then keep him.

    The Dipsy

    • Jeff Dowder

      May 22, 2012 at 3:05 pm

      Dipsy – You keep mentioning this “value” that you think they can get for Hamels. Past history tells us that it will most likely be one fairly good prospect and two marginal guys. Past history tells us that you won’t get a true blue chip prospect for a two month rental. Do you actually think the fans will be happy getting that return for one of the best pitchers in the game who also happens to be a homegrown product?

      You can look at the Sabathia deadline deal and two Lee deadline deals and see this for yourself. At the 2010 deadline, the Yankees and Rangers both desperately wanted Lee. It was the kind of bidding war you’re projecting for Hamels this year. The return for Lee in a bidding war was Matthew Lawson, Blake Beavan, Josh Lueke and Justin Smoak. Was that the value that you’re looking for? A contending team is very unlikely to give you something of value from it’s active roster for a rental.

      So, we’re back to what is your definition of “value” in this scenario? If it’s not three middling prospects, what is it? It would really have to be a lot to negate the backlash that RAJ will get for trading Hamels.

  30. Dave

    May 22, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    I know people say it’s only 40 or so games, but at some point you have to say it’s not early anymore and come to reality on what kind of team we have. We like to think we have too much talent to play like this, but reality is what we’ve watched for almost 2 months. When the starting pitching clicks, the hitting doesn’t. When the hitting clicks, the bullpen doesn’t, etc. Last night it was offense and baserunning. We say that “we could have easily won that game” but we didn’t. The truth is, this team finds more ways to lose than win. It sucks, but that’s the team we have right now.

    • Don M

      May 22, 2012 at 1:05 pm

      yep, that is the team we have right now… an underperforming, but still .500 club

      with 1, 3, and 4 hitters that are underperforming
      intended 3 and 4 hitters that haven’t played a game yet
      and an ACE with zero wins in 6 starts

      The majority of this club is not playing up to a level that they’ve shown they can play at before (i’m not expecting Rollins to match .2007) so if the players snap out of their collective funks and we start playin g.600-ball instead of .500-ball …. with our rotation, we go right back to being one of the most dangerous teams in baseball. . .

      The Phillies would have to be at least 10 games out of a playoff spot at the trade deadline for the team to become “sellers” and I just don’t see that happening . . . . I think we will all agree that they’ve played just about as poorly as they can so far this year … and again, if our WORST is .500 … i still think we’re going to be ok

  31. davehist

    May 22, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    You’ve gotta give this to Hunter Pence: when he came up in the sixth with men on second and third and no outs, he hit a screaming line drive to the outfield. Unfortunately, Ankiel made a nice catch of it, and Polanco’s and Samuel’s stupidity at third base made it useless. But Pence did his part of the job! At least this time.

  32. betasigmadeltashag

    May 22, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    I think a point most of you are missing is that this team right now with all the injuries and with Chase and Howard being out for longer than I think they anticipated you have three maybe four everyday major league players and four or five platoon bench players that start everyday for this team. and look at last night, you had guys taking pitches ane d walks. Then Glavis decides he has to get a hit and starts swinging up around his eyes., and some of the balls they hit were hard but at people and they had games that those balls went through. no team in the east is going to run away with the division. and the Phillies will not be out of it by enough to even thinking about trading people. And I never got why you can not just let a guy play out his contract and letting him go, since you at most going to get a few guys one of which may be a big league player in two three years. why not that you can sign someone as good. Plus I am not conviinced he is not going to resign just after the all star break

  33. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    My stance on Ruben being fired if Cole isn’t re-signed is really a statement that this should have been dealt with before now. I agree that 7/175 is too much. Maybe he would have signed for LESS than $100M for 5 years if this he would have been extended LAST season. Now it’s probably too late and I WILL blame Ruben for not acting quicker. I wonder what prevented that from happening…we’ll probably never really know for sure.

    • Don M

      May 22, 2012 at 1:31 pm

      When Weaver got a 5 year, $85-90 contract with the Angels, I think we ALL figured that was about what Hamels would get . . . . but Hamels’ agent said that that time – they weren’t going off of the Weaver deal because that was a “hometown discount” in that Weaver is from there …….etc . . .

      the Phillies have made no secret that they want to extend Hamels – and its becomming increasingly clear that Hamels and his agent are looking to break the bank and take the biggest offer they can … My stance is to give Hamels $1 M more per season than Cliff Lee … let him know you want to keep him in your plans, but you need to have the ability to add pieces around him… Hamels doesn’t deserve to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball, despite what he and his agent are shotting for

      I think the deal I mentioned might get it done.. is it worth $175 M instead of $135 M for him to start a new life in a new city, etc ..? I guess we’ll see . . . . .

      but the point is, that its not as easy as BLAME AMARO if Hamels doesn’t sign an extension, it takes two sides to complete a deal

  34. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Well, Weaver’s deal was too low for him and certainly for Hamels. I think that if they would have tried for something like 5/100-110…at that time…then maybe he would have signed. Who knows. I just think that they could/should have done more to extend a home-grown 27-28 year old lefty when maybe they could have done it easier than they can now. But, you’re right…it does take 2 sides to do a deal.

  35. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    I wouldn’t mind giving Hamels a 3y/78m contract. That would be great! Amaro will not sign him unless ownership group lets him go over the cap. Which they could. He can’t sign Cole, keep the other pitchers, go out and get his players for next year, and be competitive while staying under the cap. No way.

    Look….you’re the owners. You’re effin rich. Why should they give a damn about a salary cap? In this city and at this time?

    The Dipsy

  36. Don M

    May 22, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    No chance Hamels would sign a 3-year-deal leaving almost $100 M of guaranteed money on the table….

    The reason Lee accepted our deal is because $120 M isn’t far off from $140 M …his other highest offer, from NYY

    The reason Werth left Philly is because $126 M… is a whole ton more than $48 M, the Phillies 3-year-offer


    So if the Phillies make a competitive, fair offer, like they did with Lee, there is the chance that Hamels accepts it … if they trade him at the deadline (which they won’t), he’s gone for good and the chance to resign him is out the window

  37. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    3/78 ??? Yeah….good joke.

    Next….

  38. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    That was sarcasm Don. It would be 1mill per year more than Lee though. 🙂

    The Dipsy

    • Don M

      May 22, 2012 at 2:33 pm

      the sarcasm went over my head, but I did notice the $26 M per year ….. I think that’s about the only chance we have if we want to say we went beyond our 3-year-deal for pitchers to get Clifff …… we’re willing to do that with you too, and make you the highest paid pitcher in Phillies history …….. a 5-year-deal also means that he’s got a chance to sign another contract afterwards since he’ll only be 33-34 ….

      Let’s see….. I wouldn’t trade him at all though, because I don’t think we’ll get any AA or AAA stud for a Hamels rental …….and guys that are farther away than that aren’t sure enough things to give up Hamels and give up any chance of keeping him

  39. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Guess we both were fooled by your sarcasm then, Dipsy. Whatever. So Don said something about 7/175. Would you do that deal??…to keep what is probably the best ….certainly one of the best….lefthander in the game in red pinstripes? It’s a lot of money….and I would have to pause. But I would also consider it.

  40. George

    May 22, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Why is a seven inning , two run effort from Kendrick “not a terrible effort overall?” Had Halladay or Lee pitched that well, I’m sure it would have been described in more glowing terms. It seems Kendrick can’t get any praise on this site even when he does an excellent job.

    • Dave P

      May 22, 2012 at 3:15 pm

      I agree. This is almost as good as it gets with Kendrick, he did a good job of limiting damage, deserves way more praise than “not terrible”.

    • Manny

      May 22, 2012 at 4:16 pm

      Agreed. I thought so too but didn’t comment on it since I thought I was the only one who noticed it. 7 IP, 2 ER… I’ll take that from ANY pitcher, anytime, any day.

  41. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Chuck – While it would gall be to no end…while it would make me swear the whole time under my breathe….while it would make me beat my kids……I would have to bite the eff down hard and do it.

    The Dipsy

  42. Lefty

    May 22, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Let me weigh in and make myself clear here. No, no, no, no, no, just plain no. Goodbye Cole, thanks for all the memories. I would never, ever give a pitcher more than three years, it’s a 90% guaranteed losing bet. History tells us this. You might as well bet the horses.

    If three years was good enough for possible future HOFer, Roy Freakin Halladay, it’s good enough for Cole Hamels. Goodbye Cole, have fun in Los Angeles, New York, Boston, wherever. We still have 2 premier pitchers, it’s time we spent the money where it is most needed, not pitching.

    I’m sorry guys, but It just seems like common sense to me. How much could we do with our offense with 25m – replace two pieces with solid major leaguers. Hell, go after Josh Hamilton, as bad a risk as he is, it’s better than 7 years on a lanky pitcher that missed starts JUST last season. Pitchers fall off cliffs, ask the GIants, they were wise to sign Timmy for only 2 years. They learned from the Zito mistake.

    • Lefty

      May 22, 2012 at 3:19 pm

      And just in case anyone is thinking about Matt Cain or CC Sabathia, remember these are big strong strapping men with no recent history of injuries. I think they even had to pull Cole from a game last season in Toronto didn’t they? Then he missed a few starts. I’m sorry, we need position players. Just like Werth, it’s time to say farewell and wish him the best.

    • Jeff Dowder

      May 22, 2012 at 3:34 pm

      I’d still rather have Hamels going forward than Halladay or Lee. The Phillies will have Halladay two more seasons at ages 36-37. They’ll have Lee four more seasons at ages 34-37. Even with a seven year deal, Hamels will only be 35 in the last year of that contract. There’s a pretty good chance that Hamels at ages 29-32 will outperform Halladay & Lee at ages 35+.

  43. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    C.C. Sabathia has worked out OK, but I hear ya Lefty. Keep in mind that I would only sign him if we could go through the tax threshold. If we have to stay within it….no way in hell. The more “prudent’ thing would be to NOT sign him. Just think what you could do with three more offensive players getting paid 8mill per season…that would be Cole’s salary equal.

    The Dipsy

    • Lefty

      May 22, 2012 at 3:20 pm

      As I said, 90%. So yes, some of them do work out. But you talk about hope being a bad strategy, well odds like that are a miserable strategy.

  44. Chuck A.

    May 22, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Ok,Lefty, so you’re hell-bent against giving a pitcher more than 3 years yet what is Cliff Lee getting? To me, THAT was the mistake contract for a starting pitcher, not a potential 5-7 year deal for a much younger Cole Hamels. And, yes, I do have to bring up Matt Cain. If the Giants learned so well from the Zito deal, why on earth then would they sign Cain like they did? Forget how strapping he is….he could still get hurt. Normally, I agree with 99% of what you say but I have to disagree on this one. Sorry.

  45. Manny

    May 22, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    RE: Cole. We should be able to get him for 5 years with an easily vesting option for a 6th… At most, 6 guaranteed with a very tough vesting option for a 7th. Can’t blame the Phillies if they actually offer that and not get him, despite him being my favorite Phillie.

  46. TheDipsy

    May 22, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Manny – He’s getting 7. Maybe 8.

    The Dipsy

  47. brooks

    May 22, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    I too hate long term deals for pitchers or any other position player. Its just stupid but that is what he will be asking for.

  48. Lefty

    May 22, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    Chuck and everyone else, for the record, as much as I like Cliff Lee, I was not in favor of the deal. Go back to the thread here that night the announcement was leaked. I was one of a very few that were saying it doesn’t make sense.

    At most, 3 years for pitchers, maybe, with an option like Doc has. I love Cole, but that’s all I’d offer. That’s probably why no one has, or ever will hire me to be a GM right?

    But this is a thread about a frustrating 2-1 loss, where we couldn’t score a man from third on a fly ball, and we’re talking about locking up a pitcher for close to the highest amount ever paid? How about spending the money more wisely is all I’m saying. I’m not asking anyone to agree, but just consider the following for a second;

    Why does the club have to take all the injury risk? Why can’t the player assume some? Offer him, I don’t know 28-30 million per year if they want, the most per year that any pitcher has ever made. I’d do that, BUT only 3 years, period. And if he pitches well, he’ll get another 3 years as the highest paid pitcher – whatever that is at the time. If he is smart and willing to assume some of the risk, that will add up to far more than 7 at 175. All I’m asking is that you think about it, you may find, or he may find, it’s not such an unreasonable offer. 90 mil for three years while Justin Verlander gets 80m for 5? Just think about it. 7 for 175, that’s crazy.

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