Here We Go Again: Phillies Go Down in Flames – Phillies Nation
2012 Game Recaps

Here We Go Again: Phillies Go Down in Flames

I think I know why Phillies fans drink so much at games. Cliff Lee gave up the lead in the eighth and the Phillies could not comeback, losing 2-1 to the Dodgers on Tuesday night.


-Cliff Lee basically had to be perfect tonight and for the most part, he was. Except for one lousy pitch. And that’s what this season has become. It has become a joke. It has become a season of needing one; one strike, one run, one more. Lee struck out 12 Dodgers, but allowed one mistake to Elian Herrera with two outs and two strikes in the eighth. That gave the Dodgers a 2-1 lead and Phillies fans a sudden case of nausea.

-What else can you say about Cliff? He deserves better; he deserves wins. As Todd Zolecki pointed out on twitter, the Phillies have given Lee 16 total runs when he has been in the game in nine starts. Let that number sink in.

-Lee totaled 122 pitches and an absolutely obnoxious 92 strikes.


-Yet again, it was non-existent. I’m getting tired of writing the same things over and over again, really. You saw that they couldn’t get much going against Chad Billingsley throughout the game, and you know that from time to time, they’ll give you duds like this one. Where is that Chase Utley? Poor Lee.

-Hunter Pence actually came through with a runner on third and less than two outs. He knocked in the Phillies only run in the first inning, slapping a single through to left field, scoring Jimmy Rollins, who had led off with a double.

-Chad Billingsley was very good, nearly going step for step with Lee. He went six innings, giving up just the one run on six hits. He struck out one and walked one.


-The Phillies still do not have a comeback after the eighth inning. For years, that used to be their forte. No longer.

Plaicdo Polanco got spiked on the hand by Matt Treanor on a sliding attempt in the eighth inning. He did stay in the game, but would be pinch-hit for in the ninth by Mike Fontenot. The last thing the Phillies need is another BS injury derailing a player.

-In Triple-A, Domonic Brown hit 2 home runs for Lehigh Valley on Tuesday night. Phillies could have used some of that.

-The Phils have a game tomorrow. Whatever.

Click to comment


  1. "Big Ed" Delahanty

    June 5, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    This game made me skip the beer and go right for the bourbon! Frustrating beyond belief! Poor Cliff. Phils need to recoup and refocus.

  2. Jeff

    June 5, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    I love it. Just wenatchee them to miss the playoffs. So span jr gets
    Fired. This team has no future. Old and ugly. Like Dipsy

  3. brooks

    June 5, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    I’m excited – not really.
    I’ll be there again, seeing Kyle Kendrick, again.
    This looks like a script, especially when Lee is pitching. Nothing, absolutely nothing after the 7th inning – I am sure the stadium was near half empty by the time the 9th inning came around, there is no more excitement.

    • schmenkman

      June 5, 2012 at 10:16 pm

      Phillies, runs scored by inning this year:

      32, 24, 19, 29, 11, 22, 28, 31, 37

      1-3: 75
      4-6: 62
      7-9: 86

      • Jeff Dowder

        June 5, 2012 at 10:28 pm

        Schmenkman – Is there a breakdown for runs scored when the game is close? Like three runs or less either way? Maybe they’re scoring runs when the game is already decided one way or the other. We know they obviously have no comeback ability in the late innings.

      • Bruce

        June 6, 2012 at 1:04 am

        @schmenkman; Unless I missed something, those numbers don’t really say anything to me. What does matter, are the wins and losses and the Phillies are now 0-24 when trailing after 7 innings.What is worse, the Phillies’ record at home is now 12-17. Incredible!

  4. Jeff Dowder

    June 5, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    Look on the bright side – the Phillies have the third best offense in the league over the past six weeks. It’s true, I heard it just today. Unfortunately, they also happen to be 0-24 when trailing after eight innings, and the only team in the sport that hasn’t overcome a deficit in the eight or later. Probably just bad luck (or maybe a lot of those runs they score happen to be in “garbage time”).

    The good news is that I’ll be in parking lot K at 8AM on Thursday morning. I’ll have a complementary Bubba Burger for the first PN member that finds me. Just one though, I have a big crowd to feed. Bring the beverage of your choice.

    • schmenkman

      June 5, 2012 at 10:39 pm

      Actually only 23 of their runs this year have been scored when the margin is more than 4.

      OPS by situation:

      overall: .718
      2 outs, RISP: .759
      late & close: .779
      tie game: .694
      within 1 run: .714
      within 2 runs: .721
      within 3 runs: .721
      within 4 runs: .709

      • Kramer

        June 7, 2012 at 3:58 pm

        That’s probably because they never have a lead of more than 4 runs…

    • George

      June 5, 2012 at 10:41 pm

      “Probably just bad luck (or maybe a lot of those runs they score happen to be in “garbage time”).”

      Actually, it may be a case of both.

      Either way, things will likely begin to average out. I’d say, “At least I hope so,” but I’ve been told too many times that hope is not a strategy.

  5. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 5, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    People repeating the things ive been saying forever.
    Really wish I wasnt right every time.

    To tell the truth I am not upset. This is about what I thought they were. They are actually doing better than I thought. The championship backclass does show up sometimes. Its still there but it simply isnt enough to overcome the ineptitude of Ruben Minaya Jr.

    I will also bet my granmas dentures that the Phillies have a higher winning percentage in games Ryan Howard is not in this year then games he appears in.
    It is amusing each night watching the broadcast team pine for him and build him up.

    The futures so dim I threw my shades in the garbage.

    • Jeff Dowder

      June 5, 2012 at 10:48 pm

      In some circles, they call that “The Reverse Timbuk 3”.

  6. Chuck A.

    June 5, 2012 at 10:35 pm

    Yeah, I heard that, too, somewhere…the “third best offense” thing. Yeah. Ok.

  7. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 5, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    Dowder your wasting your key strokes.

    These are the guys that think this was the 3rd best offense in baseball last year.

    They arent clutch they dont hit good pitching.
    When they are losing or winning 8-1 they will make it close or pull away.
    There are guys who always hit when it doesnt matter and never hit when it does.

    The clutch guys on this team for the last 3 years have been Shane and Ruiz.
    Now this year you add Galvis.
    But these clowns cant wait for Utley to get back so you can bench him for Jimmy and Utley the premier middle infield in baseball! (2007).

    Gonna drink some Jim Beam. Shout out to Big Ed Delahenty.
    Dont fall into Niagra falls.

    Have a drink my friend Brooks. Nice to see you posting. Nice to see some old familar faces and nice people. Too bad there arent any left.

  8. Chuck A.

    June 5, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    Great. So they have a .779 OPS in “late and close” games…games where the “0-24 when trailing after 8 innings” stat is relevant. I’m comforted now.

  9. schmenkman

    June 5, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Strange, but true.

    Compared to this time last year,

    they’ve scored 3% more (4.20 vs. 4.07)
    they’ve allowed 18% more (4.09 vs. 3.46)

  10. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 5, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    Was last year a good year?

    Id have to say no.
    The pitching camouflaged alot and got you to 102 wins.

    The true team showed up as soon as the playoffs started.

    The stats said the Cardinals had one of the worst bullpens in baseball last year.
    It didnt matter though did it? They were good enough vs the Phils. Thanks to Arthur Rhodes 3 pitch Ks of the clean up hitter.

    I know I am over my limit Chuck. Missed you too!

    Last year they had Lee and Halladay a year younger and healthier and didnt win a WS.
    This year they cant win one. So its moot.

    So no matter what last year sucked more than this year.

    • schmenkman

      June 5, 2012 at 11:03 pm

      AFW, if you couldn’t even enjoy last year, if you’re only ever going to be happy the (hopefully) once in a generation that they win the WS, well, I don’t know what to say.

  11. Chuck A.

    June 5, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    Boston vs. Miami in the Eastern Conference Finals tomorrow night will be more compelling than watching more of this sh!t.

  12. Ryne Duren

    June 5, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    i have no comments! with all this top notch play by the phils i’m allmost speechless! well allmost.

  13. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 5, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    @ Schenk I enjoy every year.
    I am honestly enjoying this year way more than last.
    Last year was an epic fail. So was 2010.
    IMO they needed to win a WS title in that 2 year window and they did not.

    @ Chuck A
    You know the NBA is fake like the WWE?
    Just saying

    Hope it doesnt ruin your enjoyment tomorrow.

  14. Chuck A.

    June 5, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    That was sort of my point. The NBA …especially the playoffs …. really isn’t that interesting (although the Sixers had a nice run).

  15. Ryne Duren

    June 5, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    well lets try this fellas! a pastor was walking down the street. he walks past an irish pub a sees a parrishioner, mrs. megillicutty. she’s sitting on a stool sloppy drunk. the pastor says to himself i have to get her home! so he goes into the pub and walks over to her and puts his arm around her and says come on now lets get ya home now. she starts to fuss, she doesn’t want to leave so they struggle. the bartender rolls his eyes and whispers tsk tsk! the struggle worsens and the women falls off the stool with the pastor falling on top of her her dress flies up the pastor is trying to get up but to no avail. the barte notices whats going on and yells out …Hey we’ll have none of that in this place this is a family pub! the pastor is all red faced. he yells back .. you don’t understand i’m pastor fuzz! the bartender yells back i don’t care how far ya got none of that stuff in here! now get out! ……. lets all smile fellas the phils losing isn’t the end of the world. it’s just that things aren’t always as they seem!

  16. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 5, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    Nats just beat the Mets in the 12th game winning 2 out hit by Bryce Harper.

    They remind me so much of the Phillies of 5 and 6 years ago.

    Its exciting.
    And no I dont have the Natitiude.
    Although I do not hate them like I do the Braves and Mets.
    They have done things the right way.
    Their year to win the division is 2013 still.

  17. Chuck A.

    June 5, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Nats are for real. A year ago I said they would contend by ’13 or ’14. So they showed up a year early. Jayson’s gonna have the last laugh.

    • George

      June 6, 2012 at 9:49 am

      Considering what he makes in pay, he’d have the last laugh even if the Nats were terrible.


    June 5, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    If I were Cliff Lee I would request to be traded to a legitimate contender. The Phils will be a group of mutts for the next two to three years. The opportunity for Lee to win a championship will become less and less. He gets NO support. Sad

  19. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 5, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    @ Chuck
    The Phillies still have 3 of the top 5 starters in baseball when they are all healthy.

    There is a chance here. But it starts with a new manager.
    A new manager wh isnt in love with his guys. Who doesnt have a past with players and no loyalty. A guy who would sit Howard vs a lefty. A guy who would hit Rollins 8th. A guy who would want to deal Utley to make sure Galvis remains at 2nd base.
    A guy who wouldnt use Papleban for more than 1 inning or in a non save situation.

    You make a trade. You deal Utley and Palanco and one of the big 3 pitchers and get 3 position players and a middle reliever in return.

    I am not saying thats the deal that needs to be made or that it will be made.
    I am saying this team is not hopeless. There is still a chance here.
    But the status quo does not work and has not worked in a long time.
    It must change.

    Thats where I get frustrated and pissed off.
    This thing could be fixed right now for this year. And long term.
    Fire the GM and Manager and go from there.

    I am not holding my breath though.

    I am a dreamer though.

  20. Lefty

    June 6, 2012 at 12:10 am

    Whew that one hurt. Not much else to say.

    Funny stuff Ryne,

    It’s hard to stomach Andrew, I know it is, but I’m not giving up yet. Just a little improvement & it’s still a tight division race.

    Cliff Lee could make baseball history at the end of the season and be the first pitcher to ever lead the league in K/9, BB/9, and WHIP without winning a game.

    Gonna go sleep this one off. Out.

  21. bacardipr05

    June 6, 2012 at 12:53 am

    Andrew no one is going to take any of those guys. Youve said it yourself before. The only person any team will take is Papelhead, even then we still have to throw some money in. Utley is owed some what 25 million or whatever prorate amount is. Im with you on your earlier statement last year’s pitching and bullpen did camouflage some of the Phils issues. The one major thing that separates this year squad (up to this point) and the squads from before is lack off comeback ability. In previous years this team was at its best when they where behind. I remember my mom saying there losing. Then telling her i bet they will mount a come back in the 8th/9th inning. Then calling her and saying turn the Phils back on. This year they simply dont have the talent, fight, chemistry, luck or desire to pull this off anymore. They arent getting whipped either most of the time. The pitching for most part is keeping us in games. However as you eluded earlier the problem that was hidden is now been exposed. Injured, older and players not performing up to far is too much for even good to great pitching to overcome.

  22. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 6, 2012 at 1:59 am

    @ Bacardi
    Just as stupid as Ruben Minaya Jr. is and the fan base you can turn that on another orginazation.

    Yea you held the fireworks too long and it went off in your hand.

    Utley with a contender could get people excited.
    There is a reason all the old fossils are here.
    1. You have a moron GM
    2. The fan base wants them here

    “it’s better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.”
    -Branch Rickey

    Thats long gone. But you can still deal them.

    The other teams will pay too much for your trash.
    Deal your trash.
    Ruben Minaya Jr. cannot.
    He clings to his trash.

    Ruben and the fan base still think Howard and Utley are the best.
    You cant pawn that off to another team when your own team and fan base thinks the same.

    Think about trading Howard and Utley today for 15 million in salary room?
    All the fans would cry.

    But you would have a fighting chance in the playoffs.
    I dont line up with Ruben and the fans.
    I want to win.

    • Jeff Dowder

      June 6, 2012 at 6:40 am

      There is no GM in baseball that would trade for Utley & Howard. It’s not even an option.

      • Chuck A.

        June 6, 2012 at 7:21 am

        Sure there is. Ruben Amaro would if Utley and Howard were playing for different teams…

  23. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 6, 2012 at 2:13 am

    Think about it. Ill give you $15,000,000.00 in payroll relief. Right now.
    Ill take the on the Howard and Utley burdens and people including the GM will turn it down.

    This is what the GM and fans want.
    They think Utley and Howard will save the day.

    It’s a discnnect with reality.

  24. Phillies fan from Germany

    June 6, 2012 at 6:51 am

    Andrew, some of the things you say make sense, some don’t, but when you keep saying the Phillies needed to win a WS last year and because they did not they were not succesful I just lose all respect for your opinions. You just don’t have any idea how the playoffs work. In an 8 team playoff even the best teams only have a chance of maybe 25-30% to win it all…

  25. TheDipsy

    June 6, 2012 at 7:01 am

    Off point, I can’t stand the fact that the playoffs, not that they are called that anymore, are heading towards letting in everybody and there mother. Soon, it will be like hockey. Everybody gets in. The existence of this obnoxious, childish, WWF style, “knockout round” while allowing an extra team a chance, in theory, to win a WS, will keep 7 or 8 teams chasing it. I don’t want the Phillies being one of these sh1tty teams chasing the knockout round at the expense of “fortifying” for the next few years when they really COULD have a chance at winning the Series. A ticket to the “knockout round” is like the the proverbial little kid that lifts up the bottom of the tent so he can watch the circus. No thanks.

    The Dipsy

    • George

      June 6, 2012 at 9:44 am

      I totally agree. I never liked the old system because it allowed too many losers into the picture. Teams with the fourth best league record (and now those with a fifth place record) win solely on luck and matchups. It’s stupid, ridiculous, idiotic, insipid, asinine, and any other adjective a person might think of. A better team can get the shaft. I’d rather see the Phils go for the great regular season than to sacrifice the future trying to be a bogus champ.

  26. One of Jamie Moyer's 8 Kids

    June 6, 2012 at 7:28 am

    Hey I just wanted to say that my Dad is available to help.

  27. Jeff Dowder

    June 6, 2012 at 7:44 am

    Dylan Cozens was not ranked among Baseball America’s Top 500 prospects, and the Phillies took him at 77. That could be one to watch.

    • Pat Gallen

      June 6, 2012 at 9:12 am

      Ruben talked about him last night glowingly. Said he really wowed everyone when he was in Philly.

  28. schmenkman

    June 6, 2012 at 8:08 am

    @Bruce: “@schmenkman; Unless I missed something, those numbers don’t really say anything to me. What does matter, are the wins and losses and the Phillies are now 0-24 when trailing after 7 innings.What is worse, the Phillies’ record at home is now 12-17. Incredible!”

    0-24 is bad, but as opposed to what? What’s a reasonable expectation? 2-22? 3-21?

    I don’t know where to find records for all teams, but I know that Texas at about this time last year was 1-25 when trailing after 7.

    And what about their record when they’re TIED after 7? And how does that compare to other teams?

    Yes, it’s very frustrating that they haven’t been able to come back after the 7th so far, and those 2-3 wins could mean the difference in making the playoffs or winning the division. But the reason I gave the stats on how they’re hitting by game situation is that the underlying stats look good.

    Here is how many runs they’ve scored per 27 outs so far by situation:
    – overall: 4.14
    – late and close: 5.05
    – tie game: 4.17
    – within 1 run: 4.29
    – within 2 runs: 4.28
    – within 3 runs: 4.27
    – within 4 runs: 4.07
    – > 4 runs: 5.13 (total of 23 runs all year)

    They’ve hit in various situations, and I believe will continue to do so, and sooner or later it will translate into wins.

    And it’s doubly frustrating that they are 12-17 at home, especially since that’s in front of the paying fans, and often in unpleasant weather conditions in April-May. But that can happen over a short stretch, and I would bet some money that by the end of the season they will have a better record at home than on the road.

  29. Chuck A.

    June 6, 2012 at 8:44 am

    “sooner or later it will translate into wins” …

    …Yeah, but maybe not this year.

    Look, we all gotta face the possibility that this might just not be the Phillies year. And that’s ok. If it takes a year or two to retool then that’s ok with me. I’m not one of the fans that’s so delusional and thinks that my team can win it every single season…..cause I know that’s just realistic.

    This is a competitive and close division and will probably be so til the end. The Phillies have a legitimate shot but so do 4 other teams. It’s great to say that they’re only 5 games out at this point but they have to leapfrog over 3 other teams in order to be right behind the division leader. It’s gonna be tough.

  30. Rob

    June 6, 2012 at 4:14 pm


  31. SavannahPhillie Phan

    June 6, 2012 at 7:58 pm

    It’s sad to watch because in most games they are leaving allot of guys on the bases. I think all this team needs is couple of young guys to hit some HR’s. Our defence looks good, our pitching has been great, offensively they are getting guys on base, they just can’t seem to bring them in. I think if they have a couple of guys who can really swing the bat (beside Chase and Howard) they would be fine. I am of the mind that Chase and Ryan are going to take awhile before they start hitting again. Why not try some of the guys from the minors….give them a chance. Look at Galvis…maybe there is a Bryce Harper in our minor league to be promoted. We have nothing to lose except games which we are already doing without them. If they suck, does it matter if we lose the game by 1 run or 10 runs??? I see some of the guys Ive read about in the minors are getting lots of HR’s and RBI’s.

    • schmenkman

      June 6, 2012 at 9:43 pm

      Savannah, all I can say is there is a reason most of them are in the minors. Galvis has gotten timely hits, but overall he is now officially the worst-hitting Phillie, just behind Mayberry.

      Dom Brown will be able to help when he’s called up, which will hopefully be after he’s had a another good month or two of good performance.

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