Phillies Nation

172 Responses to “Breaking News: Phillies Ink Moyer To 2-Year Deal”

1. Craig Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

   Sweet.

   Glad we’re not going to over pay Lowe.

   Moyer will do a good job for us.

2. Petrocs Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

   was hoping for a better arm..dont get me wrong..I love Jamie but I wanted Lowe or peavey in this rotation

3. Paul Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

   Very good news. Maybe they could still Lowe?

   Hamels, Lowe, Myers, Blanton and Moyer? Sounds good to me.

4. RealMetsFan Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

   Rumor in New York states that the Phillies have a 3 year 36 million offer to Andy Pettite. Whoas You.

5. MA Phanatic Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

   Why are people still mentioning Peavy. He doesn’t want to pitch for us. Amaro could offer the Padres Chase AND Rollins and the deal wouldn’t happen, because Peavy won’t come here.

   On a more related note, nice to have Jamie back. This rotation should be very interesting come Spring Training. I also think Lowe is STILL an option with this ballclub. His market seems to be getting smaller..

6. Bloagie Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

   With assumption of Park as the 5, how about some trade rumors….Werth, Kendrick, Happ for Dye…anyone anyone???

7. Alex Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

   Keeping Moyer is a solid move. He has the potential of repeating his 2008 performance, winning 12-16 games with a decent ERA and throwing 180-200 innings, and even if his production slips, he has the kind of intangibles (experience, mentoring younger pitchers; its like having an extra sage pitching coach; not to mention what he does in the community) that make this deal worth it.

8. MA Phanatic Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

   If Pettite comes here on a 3-year deal, I’ll be STUNNED. Now THAT would be a bad deal

9. Jamie Says:
   December 15th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

   I like resigning Moyer. He’ll keep teams off-balance and will provide a nice change of pace again for the rotation. If we got Lowe, Peavy, Pettite, etc. it would be nice, but quite frankly I”m ready to see what Happ and Carrasco have for the organization. If they can’t do it, then we can stick more money into starters, but I think we’ll be fine with the likes of them. Also, having Chan Ho in the pen provides a security blanket, as does a guy like Durbin.

10. Bloagie Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    There seems to be a lot of money out there still, so this can’t be it. We have a log jam for the 5th spot Kendrick/Happ/Park and still need a power right in the lineup. I would love to see Werth packaged with some young talent for an upgrade in right field

11. Chris.I Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    RealMetsFan,
    Go blog on your own site. By the way, there is NO rumor on Pettite coming to the Phillies..He’s just being a di*k because his team sucks. I’m happy we re-signed Moyer, but I honestly would have prefered Lowe, but that’s okay! Watch Moyer go 21-3 this year with a 1.79 era-LoL.

12. christopher Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    love the move, but i also don’t think it means the phillies are done with pursuing lowe. if anything, between the yanks signing burnett and now the phillies resigning moyer, this gives the phillies even more bargaining power to bring lowe down to a realistic contract. if they can, as much as i’d like to see happ get a shot to start again, i’d much rather see a rotation of hamels, myers, lowe, moyer, and blanton.

13. Bill Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    I don’t think so either. The Phillies can certainly afford to add Lowe as well. If they do, they will have the best rotation in the league and one of the best in the game. I am keeping my fingers crossed!

    http://www.phightinphils.com

14. Chris.I Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Christopher,
    As much as we would love to see that happen, it is very unlikely…Especially with the Mets having some money to burn, they seem like the frontrunners for his service at this point. I have to admit, it does sound VERY tempting, especially if one of the 5 starters goes down early in the season, we would have 2 good young prospects to choose from to replace them.

15. Chuck P Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Our World Series rotation remains unscathed. That’s right… our World Series rotation (never gets old). All of you Muts loving a$$ clowns need to get off Jamie’s senior citizen’s discount card toting JOCK… it’s not your fault, we’re just better than you.

16. RealMetsFan Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    MY TEAM SUCKS??? MY TEAM SUCKS??? MY TEAM SUCKS??? MY TEAM SUCKS??? Please don’t say that. I about to slit my wrists. Don’t shoot the messenger (or insult his team). it hurts my feelings. That’s the word on the street. Pettite has a 3 year offer from the Phillies. Oh and 21-3??? 1.79 ERA??? HUH??!!! How about 13-10 4.50 Era. That’s more realistic. And I’m the D_CK??

17. JimC Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Not a big fan of howard eskin but supposedly he broke the story. He’s always on top of things. Glad to see moyer back now we can focus on adding one more piece and I hope they are not satisfied with Park as our 5th starter. Well see what the world champs have in store after our busy day today

18. Chuck P Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Are you asking us if your team sucks because the answer is yes (without hesitation)? I hear Minaya has a landscaping business that doubles as his farm system.

19. edavies7 Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Hate the move. Lowe is a much better option. People forget 2 years ago Moyer went 14-12 with a 5.04 era. I dont think you give a 46 year old pitcher a 2 year deal when a top end of the rotation guy is out there and is interested in playing in Philly…..DUMB MOVE AMARO

20. Doug Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    I think its a big deal to have Moyer back in the rotation. I wish they could still sign Lowe but I just don’t think it will happen.

21. Tyler Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    edavies7… that was also in the AL on a very poor Mariners team… i think he was like 5-9 or somethin like that when he came to the phils… not bad… also… i do think signing lowe is a huge possibility… i dont think amaro will let the mets take him w/o a fight & i dont see anyone else really tryin to get him… dont think hell go to the yanks cuz then he becomes like a 4 starter behind CC, wang, and burnett

22. Chuck P Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    I’m probably a little disgruntled because I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. Moyer is more like a #4 or #5 and we’re hoping that he can remain a #3 for the next two years which is unlikely. He’s more likely to post an ERA over 4 than he is to have another year in the 3’s. It’s not a terrible deal because we’re coming back with the same rotation that won the WS last year and there’s a chance that Carrasco could be ready this year (or that someone else steps up and surprises us). There are better options out there but this doesn’t necessarily close the door on that. I said from day one that I would be happier keeping Moyer and trading Myers (I think that he’s more important to this team than Myers. After we traded for Ibanez, it became pretty clear that he was coming back… he’s gonna help Ibanez feel comfortable here)… I could see Myers getting traded.

23. CZ Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    a source on MLBtraderumors.com is quoted saying he thinks the Phillies are done shopping for the offseason. I hope this is not the case.

24. edavies7 Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    2007 he played all year with the Phils and was 14-12 with a 5+ era. Look it up.

25. Chris.I Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    Realmetsfan,
    Do you have a link to the rumor? If you do, I’ll applogize for calling you a di*k, but I wont appologize for saying your team sucks-LoL. Actually since your being realistic, I aint going to lie, Mets don’t suck, but lets keep it real here…They aint better than the Phils.

26. Tyler Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    wow… has he really been here 2.5 yrs… my bad… man how time flies

27. Geoff Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    theyre not done, dont worry..they still could use another guy in the bullpen..

28. Tyler Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    idk bout needin another guy for the bullpen… they just signed park…

29. CZ Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    This is the rumor. The Phillies are not mentioned and I really can’ts ee how adding a third (or potentially 4th) lefty in the rotation makes any bit of sense…

    SI.com’s Jon Heyman says Andy Pettitte’s agents are telling teams he had a three-year, $36MM offer in hand (the team is not known). I can’t figure out what team would be willing to make that commitment. This information apparently has not moved the Yankees to increase their one-year, $10MM offer.

30. Geoff Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    where did you hear that? word is that pettite has a 3 year offer…but why would it be from the phillies? its probably from the dodgers or the astros..

31. Robbi P Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    The Phillies can and should still try to get another pitcher. Pitching wins world series. This argument can also be used for Raul Ibanez. He’s no Manny, but did Manny win the World Series? I would rather have a pitcher who constantly can get into the 7th inning. I am also falling on the Lowe bandwagon lets get it done

    Last year Mets sign Johan and miss playoffs, Phils pick Lidge, Bruntlett and Blanton

    This year Mets sign Putz, K-Rod and ??? playoffs, Phils pick Ibanez, Park, Moyer

    its going to be interesting! And on a side not hope Carrasco is as good as well all hope I got his autograph haha!

32. edavies7 Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Ccbssportsline.com the Kobler Blog says the Phils are out of money and are done shopping this winter. We did not get better just older this year. It is gonna take another september choke by the Mets to win the divison cause I dont think they are good enough to win it on there own

33. Chris L Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    I think the Phils are done with FA but not done for the winter. If nothing else, they’ll continue to try to get some more flexibility in their payroll so they can sign Werth, Vic and most importantly Hamels. Specifically, that means moving Jenkins and/or Eaton (while eating some of their contracts) as well as probably Kendrick and a catcher (I prefer to move Paulino and keep Coste as a 3rd catcher/corner IF/RH PH — yeah he wont see a lot of time but he’d be versatile and get 1/2 clutch hits ala Taguchi last year). These moves would also let them get a couple of minor leaguers as support and to make up for the pick they gave up for Raul. Otherwise, except for some injuries their 25 man is pretty defined — Ruben needs to focus on locking some guys up for 2-4 years (and in Hamels’ case possibly more).

34. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    So that’s it? The “Peggy Lee” off season – “Is that all there is”?

    Hamels 17-7, 3.20
    Myers 14-12, 4.17
    Blanton 13-13, 4.15
    Moyer 9-13, 4.47

    Chan Ho Park? He totally blows. He better not be given a spot in the rotation. Oh man, its beginning to look a lot like Wa-ade……. So all there money went to offense…….unreal.

35. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Cole Hamels said this,K-Rod said that.CitiField is better than CBP.Cheesesteaks are better than New York Cheesecake.New York celebrates New Years better than Philly.We have a better closer than you.My mom makes the best lasagna.My dad can beat up your dad.Mets Stink,Phillies Stink,Sixers stink…HUH Where did that come from lol.I say all this because this is this is what MOST of you people in here (Mets AND Phillies fan) sound like,a bunch of pre schoolers.Lets grow up in here a bit,because most of us may be in our 20’s and 30’s but it all looks and sounds immature.It is a rivalry,yes…but lets at least have respect for one another…..OH and BTW,its the Holiday season.Peace on Earth and Goodwill to ALL man.

36. Stuart Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Real mets fan just wants to write on a world champions blog, dont worry. whatever he says means nothing and we shouldnt even bother talking to him, i mean look at his team. a big joke, just like the yankees, big name players, but do nothing on the field. We are world champions and they are choke artists that like to lose.
    I like this move though, if we could get lowe to i would be thrilled.

37. edavies7 Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    This team as it is will finish 2nd and maybe 3rd depending on what the Braves do. I am not renewing my season tickets after this signing. Im not paying extra money to see an old man pitch. this team won the World Series and had me so pumped, and then I thought if they put a good offseason together they can start a dynasty. And who do they bring in instead of a top of the rotation guy. JAMIE 46yearold MOYER. This sucks

38. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    Shut up Grrrrrrrumpy minor. If you want sweetness and light go outside and hook up with some Christmas carollers ya candy ass. Mets fans are the most obnoxious breed of sports fan. When I look at this offseason in total till now I think it blows big time. With the money Amaro speny he could have done a much better job. Carrasco would have been fine in Park’s role. I gotta see how much they paid Moyer. If its any more that 2/15m I’m gonna scream. Ibanez? Ok, he’s nice….Watch and see how much Burrell signs for: 3y/24m.

    The Dipsy
    Chairman of the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation.

39. Justin Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    2 yrs 16 mill for Moyer is a good share better than the report that he wanted 10 mill for 2 to 3 years. Good deal in my eyes

40. Tyler Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    well guys… mlb trade rumors has a report sayin it was 2/16

41. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    Well dipsy,from what I see….you aren’t too far behind the Mets fans with your attitude.I didn’t make the statement so we all can hold hands and sing koombayah (Or however it is spelled) It is a comparison of what both Mets and Phillies fans sound like.If you don’t like what I say,than don’t read it or comment dipsy.

42. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    Which means he’s probably getting 9 or 10m this year. Unbelievable. What poor asset allocation. What did Park get?

43. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    How can I know if I like it or not if I don’t read it? Contribute something will ya.

44. Tyler Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    1/2.5

45. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    Thanks.

46. Tyler Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    np

47. Chris L Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Moyer is getting paid to be a 4/5 and continue to mentor Hamels and Happ (among others). For all the grief that the team got for picking up “only Blanton ” at the trading deadline – check out his record. He didn’t lose a single game after coming over – including the playoffs – and the team won like 80% of the games he started. Ruben is building on the team that he was given. Moyer won’t throw shutouts (but except for Halladay and Hamels few do) but he and Blanton and meyers should give 6-7 innings and not give up more than 2-3 runs (that’s about a 4-4.5 ERA) which if any objective viewer would love to get regularly for the Phils offense and bullpen.

    The Phils showed last year that the guys don’t have to have high profile names to get the job done. It every stage of the season they were facing a team that was higher profile and had “sexier” players but they overcame with much the same case that they go in with next year. Even the Phils’ high profile guys (except Cole and maybe Chase) are minimized for being one sided or overachievers who will come crashing back down to reality any minute. They overcame superace Johan and all everything David Wright, then the darling of the trading deadline and the young slugging Fielder, then pop icon Manny and finally the media’s “team of destiny.” The thing I love most about this team winning rather than a few years prior was the personality of the team. And for all the naysayers, most of your negatives about this team – including Raul and Moyer – are based on what you think should happen because of their age or what you’ve heard from talking heads. I’d take this blue collar, less than sexy team over a bunch of overpriced mercenaries who crumble under pressure anyday .

    Long live the Phillies.

48. Tyler Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    overall… i think this offseason has been a DISASTER… 3/31.5 is a horrible deal for ibanez wen u prob could have gotten bradley for 4/36 or 37 and he’s better in my opinion and for the games he cant play dobbs would be a fine replacement… i dont like the signing of park esp if he becomes a starter and i dont mind moyer but i agree that 2/16 is too much & who is this paulino guy… is he any good… amaro better be goin for lowe still

49. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    Whatever Chris.

50. edavies7 Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    tyler agree with you 100% but only 1 problem they are reporting they are done for the offseason….its gonna be a long year

51. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    Contribute you ask? OK Dipsy……I say with the addition of K-Rod and Joey Jason Putz,and the dismissal of Heilman,Smith and Schowenweis the Mets have improved their bullpen.Are K-Rod and Putz perfect? Not in a million years.Do you honestly think Lidge (PHENOMINAL year) is going to be perfect in 2009 and beyond?I won’t answer that because we don’t know what 2009 has in store (albiet,you have the answer already) I also think the Phils made a mistake in getting Ibanez and I always thought Chan Ho Park was a ballpark in Vietnam.I wish I can contribute some more,but I’ll wait until the Mets make their next move and starting Spring Training,I’ll be back posting in here fir my first full season.

52. metsblow4show Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    There is no way Pettite has a 3 year offer on the table from the Phils. They were only interested in him for a year and to be honest with you, I think he was more of a bargaining chip to get Moyer signed. I like the Chan Ho Park signing but not as the 5th starter. I think he was brought in here as a long reliever and an insurance policy just in case the kids (Happ, Kendrick, Carasco) don’t step up and take the spot. I would love to see them still pursue Lowe. They still have to bring in a righthanded bat off the bench besides Mayberry. So, I don’t think Ruben is done yet. I hated to see Pat go, but I like what Amaro has done so far.

53. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    Thank Grrrump. That was a good joke about Chan Ho. I’ll give it to ya. Ya know, its strange. I was somewhat enthused when they got Ibanez. But now that the meetings are over and Moyer is signed, which in all likelihood means no Lowe, if Ibanez is all we have to show for the offseason I’ll be very dissapointed.

    The Dipsy

54. Tim Malcolm Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    BTW everyone:

    I just started a new job today, so that’s the Park and Moyer signings came in late (yeah, wait til my first day at a new place to start making news, Phils). Bear with me a little bit while I get acclimated in the new setting.

55. Greg V. Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    2 Years and $16 million is a steal for the man with the most wins for the franchise. I don’t care if he’s 46, as long as he throws that wicked change up and gets us 6 strong, I’m totally cool with that! Moyer is an extremely valuable pitcher, not only with his skills but with what he is able to teach others. I am thrilled to have him back on the team!

56. Greg V. Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    Also let’s be honest, take away Lowe or Sheets (who was hardly worth writing home about in the end), Moyer is one of the best available pitchers out there! Do we really need to be stuck with Paul Byrd at this point?

57. Manny Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    “The good thing is the Phils have nine options for five Opening Day rotation spots. The bad thing? Only one is a sure thing to perform well.”

    Tim: Exactly what I’ve been saying all along.

58. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    2y/16m is RAPE! Unbelievable. Amara clearly doesn’t know how to play chicken. If he did we would be talking in March about how he held out and got Moyer for 1y/7m with a club option for ‘10 and Burrell for 3y24m. Instead he panicked and overpaid for Ibanez and Moyer………and Park. Not listening to Gillick obviously. Now lets see, that 20m committed for next year. With that we coulda had

    Lowe 15.5
    and Right handed left fielder 3.5
    Carrasco can pitch in Park’s role. $260,000 or whatever.

    Am I wrong?

    The Dipsy

59. Manny Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    Last year, rarely did Moyer go 7 innings… usually he went 6. Next year he’ll go 6 tops. Two years from now, he’ll go 5.

    WHAT A GREAT INVESTIMENT!

60. Groty Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    Bottom Line.

    Moyer makes every pitcher in the barn a bit better.

    He’s worth that contract as a Pitching Coach.

61. Greg V. Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    You know, for just winning the World Series, some of you are not giving the man his due! We got him cheap the past two years! Pay the man!

62. Manny Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    I’m glad he’s still with us –don’t get me wrong– but this wasn’t the right move. Park’s contract is 2.5M (but can go up to 5), Moyer will be 8M approx… that’s 10.5M-13M… add 2M to that and you could’ve had Lowe. With the Myers’ situation coming up in the near future, you could find money to keep paying Lowe the next 2-3 years. By 2010 you could also expect Carrasco fixed in the rotation, so that’s one less spot to worry about.

    Not HORRIBLE… but very poor move, in my opinion.

63. Georgie Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    Tim, good luck on the new job, don’t worry about us, we’re all your merry little elves.

    Dips, have you dropped the Chairman? Bummer.

    And now I guess i’m a complainer, but I just think it sucks that they didn’t even offer Pat anything AT ALL, not 2 yrs/22M, nothing! I will not pass judgement on Ibanez until I see him play (although that video that was linked on an earlier thread would give Pat a good laugh), but I just think Pat deserved better than that, treating people like that usually cames back to bite you in the ass.

64. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:17 pm

    If Ruben Amaro was at a podium in my living room right now – I would throw my shoes at him!

    The Dipsy

65. Georgie Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    Dips-that was most excellently funny!!!!!!

66. Georgie Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    Would you then throw up in David Montgomery’s lap?

67. metsblow4show Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    LMAO @ Dipsy

68. The Dipsy Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    This was just a bad, bad offseason….so far.

69. psujoe Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    Wouldn’t this sound better?

    Sign Lowe.

    Trade Myers, Kendrick and Mayberry for Jermaine Dye.

    I really liked Chad Gaudin of the Cubs, but they resigned him Friday for $2 Million. He would’ve been a better signing than Park, IMO. For this exercise we’ll just go with Park and Myers as the two other Pitchers ew signed.

    Wouldn’t Dye/Lowe Be superior to Ibanez/Myers(gones next year)/Kendrick eben at +4 million?

70. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    Amaro may reply they were size 10’s BTW,THANX on Chan Ho

71. psujoe Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    Sorry, Parks and MOyer as the other two signings.

    Hamels, Lowe, Blanton, Moyer, Happ/Park/Carasco.

    Rollins
    Victorino
    Utley
    Howard
    Dye

72. Grrrumpy Miner Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    Another thing,If Ruben Aramo were in your living room with a podium,I’d say you had a PRETTY BIG living room.

73. Jh Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    I like bringing Moyer back alot….

    So the 4 top spots will look something like this:
    Hamels
    Myers
    Blanton
    Moyer

    It should be pretty interesting to see what the final verdict will be on the 5th Starter.

    Candidates:
    Eaton
    Kendrick
    Carrasco
    Happ
    Park

    I think it wiill be Kendrick, just because the Phillies LOVE giving second chances to players who have performed well in the past.

74. Jason B Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    Funny stuff as always from all! It’s unfortunate but I have to think that this is the sum of our off season aqusitions. Lowe would be nice to see in pin stripes, but it’s not happening now. Well like Tim said,”9 options for 5 spots.” Not a bad problem to have I’d say.

75. Leo Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    congrats you got my grandfather to throw a few innings

76. Nationals#1 Says:
    December 15th, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    The other thing that almost nobody has mentioned yet is that every single player on the phils in 2008 hit below their career batting averages. We take the World Champion rotation still intact, a slightly upgraded ‘pen which is the best in the league and then if the offense turns it up this year and stays consistent like they did for parts of last year, we should be cruising. And Chase will be back to 100%, MVP-Caliber Chase as well, thanks to getting surgery on the hip that held him back last year. Remember all of the games last year when the bats just didn’t show up? If we can turn even 5 or 6 of those losses into wins we’ll be golden. If we can turn 8 of those into wins, we’ll be a 100 win team.

    I like having Moyer back and I don’t think we’re done as far as the rotation goes this offseason. There’s still plenty of time and plenty of workable FA’s out there. If not, this rotation has already brought us a championship, and we haven’t even seen too much of Happ or any of Carrasco, so skies the limit for 2009. Stop getting worked up over what the management does and let the professionals work.

77. edavies7 Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 12:10 am

    not quite sure where you get your numbers, but Werth and Victorino and Dobbs all had career years. Lidge was perfect (which isnt gonna happen again) And we dont know what Myers (pre allstar break or post) or Moyer (2007 or 2008) we are getting. Plus the Mets are getting better, and its only cause they choked. I dont think we are the favorites unless we add a right handed power bat and top of the rotation guy

    That is why I would deal for Atkins and sign Lowe

78. Bonezy Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 12:25 am

    I still think they should go after Lowe. Somehow. 10 guys for 5 spots is even better than 9.

79. Art D. Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 12:26 am

    We know that the competition for the 5th spot will be resolved during spring training though I believe the Phils want Carrasco to go the AAA LV to begin the season.

    So I see Happ as the likeliest winner of #5. He had a good debut as a starter in ‘08: he seems to be more than the sum of his parts. He is a strikeout generator who will give up the long ball on occasion, but with Dubee (my favorite pitching coach) working with him, he should (IMO) become a somewhat unheralded/unexpected prize of the 5.

    IMO, I like his character. He is a bit older than most prospects who debut in the bigs but viewing his minore lg career, he had plenty of ups and downs including 1 or 2 episodes of arm priblems. He was sent back to AAA after some poor innings in the bigs previously, and worked hius way back up. I like that grit!

    Further, he did not shrink from several starting assignments in the pressured dash for the playoffs, coming out smelling like a rose. Score!

    THE WONDERFUL THING ABOUT THE ROSTER———————————————————————————————————————————————–> they did not give up any of our 3 main prospects!!

    Working the prospect garden; great plans, PG & RA!

80. Bruce Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 2:26 am

    From Yahoo Sports:

    Monday’s agreement is on a $13 million, two-year contract that keeps the durable 46-year-old Moyer with the champion Phillies.

    Possibly the oldest player to receive a guaranteed multiyear contract, Moyer would earn $20 million over the two years if he pitches 190 innings and makes 31 starts each season.

    He will receive base salaries of $6.5 million in each of the next two seasons, and he can make an additional $1.25 million in performance bonuses each year: $250,000 each for 150, 160, 170, 180 and 190 innings pitched.

    In addition, his 2010 base can escalate by up to $4.5 million: $250,000 each for 150 innings and 23 starts, and $500,000 each for 160, 170, 180 and 190 innings, and 25, 27, 29 and 31 starts.

    Moyer has a limited no-trade provision that allows him to block trades to six teams, no more than four in a league.

81. Mike N Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 2:43 am

    “I dont think we are the favorites unless we add a right handed power bat and top of the rotation guy”

    Seriously? We won the freakin’ world series, dude. And as some folks have pointed out, we still have the Carrasco/Happ/Marson/Donald/Mayberry (don’t know if he belongs on this list?) group waiting in the wings. Ibanez will be better than Burrell because he hits for a much better average, which this lineup could really use. And Werth kills lefties, so putting him between Howard and Ibanez should do the trick as far as making us less vulnerable to LOOGYs.

82. From Section 113 Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 2:52 am

    Exactly Bruce!

    Why all the HATE for Moyer?

    I think most people are just ticked off at the Ibanez signning that they are not going to be happy all off-season.

    Moyer will not be a drag on our rotation financially or a long term black hole. He allows us flexibility.

    Trust me, I wanted Lowe here as much as the next guy, heck I wanted him here when he first left the Red Sox, but he isn’t soming here so let’s move on.

    I mean once we signed Ibanez you had to be smokign if you really thought the Phills would not only pony up $66 Million for Lowe but lose another draft pick. No way, no how.

    I like our depth and I still think we’ll have a top 5 bullpen, but honestly it ALL comes down to Myers. We need him to be more consistent and basically be our Moyer in ‘09. If Myers can do that than a MOyer drop off will be ok.

    Also, I feel people are missing out on the intangibles MOyer brings to our team. He really is another pitching coach. I think Park won’t be an issue this yr. I actually would take him over Durbin. Now Durbin in my mind just SCREAMS regression.

    Gut feeling- Lowe goes to Red SOx, Yanks are spending too much for them not to do something.

    Pettitte’s mysterious offer could have been from Baltimore or Washignton. Both teams have horrible rotations and have some money to burn, and why not over pay a former Yankee?

83. J-Man Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 2:57 am

    ESPN said it was 2 years $13 million…I still wish they would go get Lowe,but it’s unlikely now they got Chan Ho Park whos rumored to be the 5th starter (horrible decision)…I would like to see this rotation on opening day
    1.Hamels
    2.Lowe
    3.Myers
    4.Blanton
    5.Moyer

    But it’s unlikely our cheap Phillies will make it happen.

84. john Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 3:00 am

    I didnt want to give moyer 2 years at all. i wanted lowe or sheets. i hope this offseason is not over because this seems like we went backwards we still need a right bat and another starter in in my opinion def could go after another bench guy

85. From Section 113 Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 3:10 am

    Whether you like the decision or not, it is FAR from cheap. If you factor in all the incentives for everyone, it will be around $130 Million. That’s alot of money.

    ANd to be fair, there is a better chance of the Moyer deal working out better for us than whomever signs Ben Sheets. He cannot stay healthy and a healthy Ben SHeets is SO important in the playoffs.

    I don’t see Park being the 5th starter

86. Geoff Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 3:14 am

    they kept the rotation they won the world series with, i mean, you cant fault them for that…lowe is a big waste of money unless he drops his price..

    boston will sign tex

    no idea about lowe because the phillies mets yankees red sox and otehrs all backed out because of boras’ price.

    why waste all that money? they won the world series, they dont need to go all out and make the big flashy moves…

    ibanez is exactly what they needed: contact hitting rbi machine..perfect…who cares if hes leftp-handed, he hit lefties well last year.. park is a long man or middle reliever, nothing more…just another body in there to replace rudy seanez. i really think they should sign another reliever to boslter that bullpen..force condrey out and improve an already great bullpen…

    also..JA Happ is the 5th starter, or carrasco. park will start in spring training but he wont win the job. if he does, it means hes pitching well, which is a good thing. this is a stable rotation if they all stay healthy.

    peopel are way too negative. they won the WS with this team, this philosophy. they filled the gaps they needed to. theyll be fine..i hope they bolster the bullpen and the rotation some more, but dont go blowing mad money or prospects on some flashy big name guy. just another few solid arms would do nicely. theyre fine as they are though to start the season. you can always promote carrasco or trade for help if you need it../.

87. Runshouse Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 3:36 am

    I’m a Mets fan but the trash talk in both directions is pretty lame. The Phils are the world champions and the last thing that they should be overly defensive about is a divisional rival who didn’t even make the playoffs.

    The Mets need to concentrate on winning ball games, I know they beat the Phils by a large margin in the season series but it doesn’t mean a thing without a playoff birth.

    Neither team controls the others destiny.

    Now on to my 2 questions for the masses.

    1.Assume the Phils got Pettite for 3 years 36 million, do you feel it is a good move to compete in the division?

    2.Assume the Mets got Pettite for 3 years 36 million, do you feel it is a good move to compete in the division?

    Please only answer if you are answering both.

88. Chris L Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 4:15 am

    Geoff – nice job.

    However, part of me sees Park coming in to challenge Durbin more than Condrey. For all the grief he got, he played his role pretty damn well – long relief and not letting games get any farther away or extra innings. Durbin seemed to tail off as the NL got use to him.

89. Pete Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 6:17 am

    Runshouse –
    I don’t think the Phils getting Pettite for that contract is a good move. Ties up too much cash and will hinder them in getting what they need – a RH bat with some pop off the bench. It also might make them reluctant to pull the trigger on a midseason deal if need be.

    It makes some more sense for the Mets, depending on what the other FA pitchers think about coming to play with you. I think it only helps short-term, because by the third year Pettite is gonna be an albatross for that kind of cash.

90. Brooks Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Nationals, I like your response. There are way too many negative people out there.
    The pen is the reason for that lovely WS trophy being in our house and if the offense can put it together this year, we will be a better club.
    I am not excited about relying on a 47 year old pitcher being our #3 or 4, I am not excited about signing Park. I would hope the Phils would look for a legit flamethrower (if he is out there) which means keep looking past Lowe –
    I tried to expand on my tickets for this coming year, nothing available on Sundays (lower levels) and I could not get seats next to me where I have my other plans (also low) so, I wound up buying a 3rd partial season plan in sec 324 that look pretty good. 1 Sunday plan, 3 partial season plans – I’m ready!
    Anyone excited about Chase’s return? I don’t want to get my hopes up about the way he looked and sounded. Still shooting for late May at best but wouldn’t it be nice to have him earlier?

91. The Dipsy Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    Well, now that I know the true details about Moyer’s deal, its not nearly so bad. If he starts to break down and the state of his arm starts to catch up with the state of his virility we can always plug him in the long man mop up roll (see Adam Eaton; Chan Ho Park). And – make no mistake about it – Chan Ho Park will NOT be the fifth starter. He will be the long man in blow outs and fill the Rudy Seanez role. I still hold out hope for Lowe as I will until he signs elsewhere. Regarding the 3-4-5, L-L-L, did you know that Ryan Howard had more hr’s last year off lefties that any right handed hitter? Kudos to my boy Bill Conlin, who contacts me regularly, for that stat. Keep on scratchin’.

    The Dipsy
    Chairman of the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation

92. Mark Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    By the way, according to Sportsrise on Comcast Sportsnet, Moyers contract is 13.5 million for two years and could be worth 20 million total.

93. J Rollins hater Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    i was so happy to hear you guys resigned Moyer. You actually think you are gonna get anything close to what you got out of him last year? Age is gonna catch up to him real quick and he’s gonna fall off hard and be a liability to you guys. And this even better increases our chances of getting Lowe. I really hope Omar signs him for 3 years/37 mil, with an option for a 4th. This guy is a horse. Never gets injured. You know what you’re gonna get out of him. CONSISTENCY. And I dont want Ollie. As good as he can be, i’m just sick of him walking 4 or 5 batters a game. Only if he came at 10 mil/yr or less would i sign him. And i dont want Sheets either. We have such a terrible track record with injury prone players. Its just not worth taking the risk. Sign one more lh bullpen arm and maybe Garland to compete with Neise for the 5th spot and I’ll see you in the parade down 5th Av in the end of Oct.

    hey i’m just an optimistic Mets fan. Nothing wrong with that right? Our blogs are loaded with hateful Phillies comments, so i figured I could jump the fence and come over here to blog.

94. From Section 113 Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Basically Moyer contract is the same in principle as his last one with us just a larger base salary. If he pitches like he has for us he’ll make some nice cash, if he doesn’t we won’t kill us financially.

    Plus we still have the prospects to pull off a deadline deal like last yr. And who knows, maybe that key right handed bat is already on the team, just waiting to get his chance and find his position. I think Donald is going to play a big part for us this yr.

95. Bloagie Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 10:52 am

    J Rollins Hater,
    As long as Omar the Great is your GM, you will not win a world series. This guy can’t put a team together. The Mets have no leadership, no direction, to many ego’s, and too many guys with NO HEART…That’s what this team is made of, guys with NO HEART. You can spend all the money in the world, but the Mets seem older than the Phils and you have to of the most overrated players ever in Beltran and Reyes. Go get some SP pitching, some corner outfielders, and see ya in 2010

96. From Section 113 Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 10:55 am

    Bloagie – I hate Beltran, but he’s a top 3 CF in all of MLB.

97. J Rollins hater Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 11:00 am

    way to go bloagie. way to represent your fan base. You are a perfect example of why Phillies fans are hated so much. You just gotta come out talkin trash. Beltran, most overrated player ever? Wow, you are obviously saying that out of your hate for the mets and this rivalry we have developed. You find me a better overall cf in the game today. He is a true 5 tool player. You guys have the best 2B in the game and we have the best CF in the game

98. NJ Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    It’s funny how the only thing the haters (and Mets fans) can find to say about Moyer is he’s old. Something tells me Moyer realised that himself considering he’s meant to be one of the fittest players on the team. Boomer Wells was old, Clemens was old, sure Moyers old but he’s not exactly going to have a serious loss in velocity that would effect the way the pitches now is it?

    Moyer’s a baseball miracle, the consumate professional and the Phils are only better for his return. He may not lead the team in wins this year, his ERA might go uncomfortably north of 4, he might even loose velocity off his fastball… But you can be damn skippy this staff will be better for having him around.

99. Maverick Says:
    December 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    I’m concerned. The Phils did nothing this offseason to improve the team.

    They did nothing to improve pitching over last year. unless you consider Chan Ho Park an improvement.

    And they downgraded left field to save some cash.

    Am I the only one who see’s this? Phils are moving in the wrong direction don’t be fulled by Moyer resigning with the club.

100. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

     I’m grateful for what Jamie has done for the Phillies the last few years, but I just don’t see how we improved this offseason. I’m not the only one. Here’s an excerpt from Rob Neyer’s blog, and he is most certainly not a Phillies hater.

     “But it’s not the contract per se that concerns me. What concerns me is that the Phillies, having won a World Series, seem to have very little interest in improving. Granted, they’re not likely to win another World Series no matter what they do. But don’t you have to at least try?
     Let’s review the Phillies’ big moves. First, they spent $30 million to get worse in left field. Now they’ve committed $13 million and who knows how many innings to a 46-year-old pitcher.”

101. psujoe Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

     Maverick has a point. In sports, if you stay the same you got worse. No way the Mets get Lowe for 3/37. At that point the Phils would be nuts not to offer 3/39, LOL.

102. Mark Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

     Why is everyone being so pessimistic? Is it so you can have a chance to be THAT GUY at the end of the season who says “I told you so”.

     Instead of “not being sure” about the Pillies offseason moves, why don’t you do some actual research and look at some worthwhile statistics. Then, come and post your ideas.

     We didn’t get worse at left. Ibanez is better than Burrell, and more consistent on a regular basis, in every offensive category except walks and HR’s. The man has had 3 straight seasons of 100+ RBI’s. Yeah, ok, he’s not fast. Who cares? That’s what happends when you get a bit older, you lose a step or two. We didn’t have a quick left fielder last season and we won it all, and we won’t again this season but we have more offensive production.

     As far as Moyer, say what you want about what “could” happen to him. But know this, you can’t just pick a 16 game winner out of a damn tree. I believe that was something along the lines of what Ruben said yesterday.

     Nevertheless, start showing some faith in the Phillies and Amaro Jr. They deserve it.

103. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

     Lowe will land back with the Red Sox now on a moderate but still reasonable pricey deal.

104. Manny Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

     Hopefully, NJ. I don’t want to see him giving the Mets one of the key things they need so badly: consistency.

105. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

     Mark, I’ve posted stats on Ibanez in previous posts. I don’t feel like arguing. If you think the Phillies deserve blind trust because they won the World Series, then fine.
     Does anyone think that a 46 year old pitcher and a 37 year old outfielder may decline? Moyer outpitched his peripherals last year. I was not averse to getting him back on a friendly contract, but paying him $16 million for his age 47 and 48 seasons is a bit much.
     Ibanez is five year older than Burrell, equally terrible in the field, much much worse against LHP (don’t look at ’08’s BA, look at career numbers), needs to be replaced defensively, is not as slow as Pat but is still very slow, and cost the Phillies 2 draft picks.
     The Muts meanwhile have swapped out Heilman, Smith and Schoenweiss for K-Rod and Putz.
     Can you honestly tell me the Phillies have improved more than the Muts this offseason?

106. Bloagie Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

     Lets also not forget about a full season with Blanton and Happ/Carasco/Park, which is a better combo than Kendrick and Eaton. Isn’t that worth a few more wins over the course of a season?

     And, we did not get worse with Ibanez, but rather, moved up a notch all around. Good pickup .

     Phils will take Division once again. As long as “Omar the Great” is the MUTS GM, that NO HEART team is going nowhere. They still are VERY thin at SP and have no corner outfielders, along with 2 of the most overrated players in the game with Beltran and Reyes, and an aging Delgado

107. Bloagie Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

     Griffin,
     Moyer’s contract is 2/13, not 16. 16 can be reached through incentives (i.e., innings pitched, performance, etc…) So, believe me, if Moyer reaches 16 mil, this signing will be well worth it at the end of two years

108. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

     So if everyone is so certain that Ibanez and Moyer will have terrible years and these contracts will be bad because they are so old… how is Lowe for 4 years such a great idea?

     I understand the point about these guys being “old” ….but if you are using that theory about Ibanez and Moyer, you need to take that into account for Derek Lowe too, because I think he’s 36 to start this season, and because he throws that much harder, his arm probably has as much wear as Jamie Moyer’s..

109. Mark Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

     Griffin, I understand you “feel” that way about Moyer but, the simple fact remains, he won 16 games last season. You cannot avoid that simple fact.

     Say what you will (…and obviously you’ve already taken the liberty) about his age but, you simply don’t know how he’ll do this season … or anyone for that matter.

     Your Moyer argument is as childish as me saying Ryan Howard has a legit shot to 162 dingers this upcoming season.

     But, I guess your just one of those never satisfied Philadelphia fans, and that is depressing.

     Let’s get pumped for this season, people.

110. Manny Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

     Griffin, we agree on the Moyer deal. He’s a great pitcher, but I don’t understand why we give him 2 years and be so afraid to go with Lowe (who is durable plus 10 years younger!) for 3 or 4.

     But it looks like Ibanez is a slight upgrade offensively … His BA has been gradually going up since 2005 (.280, .289, .291, .293). He has been solid not only in 2008, but in previous years with the M’s. This guy is good. My only concern is the 3rd year in his contract.

     We had room to improve, despite winning the WS, and we have done little to nothing about it.

111. Mark Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

     … not to mention, winning 16 games .. or 20 games is a milestone for a single season for any pitcher of any age.

     What else does Moyer have to do to have you pissed off fans instill your faith in him?

     I agree 100% with Don.

112. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

     I don’t know the first thing about Rob Neyer… but pretty much EVERYONE in baseball, would consider Raul Ibanez a better all-around player than Pat Burrell…

     so him saying that move makes us “worse is left field” in just dumb

     and Jamie Moyer has been underpaid for the past two years, and has earned every single penny of his new contract based on what he’s done since he’s been on the Phillies. HE was arguably the best pitcher on this team last year.. people we’re saying that up until the playoffs, so lets not all pretend like keeping Moyer isn’t a very good thing. Is he going to win the Cy Young in the NL this year? No. But he’ll sure help the Phillies win ballgames… and to get someone as good as Moyer for $7 M or so a year is a steal.. I dont care how old he is

113. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

     I agree Manny. We have done little to improve.

     Moyer is 46, Lowe is 36. Lowe is an extreme groundball pitcher and the Phillies have the best infield defense in baseball (yes, despite having Howard at 1B). Moyer is not a groundball pitcher. I’m not trying to put Moyer down, but did the Philies really have to give him 2 years? Was there someone else willing to give him 2 years 14 million that we didn’t know about?

     I’m trying to find anyone outside of a Phillies blog that like the Ibanez signing. Joe Sheehan, Keith Law and Rob Neyer all hated the move and said that Burrell was the better player.

     The Phillies had a chance to improve and they didn’t. The best thing you can say is that they stayed the same and that’s just not good enough.

114. Bloagie Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

     I don’t know how people can we we’ve done little to improve from last year. Please don’t forget, we have Blanton for an entire year. This guy was a potential stud who got lazy on a bad A’s team. I think Blanton could have a great season, better than Moyer’s last year

115. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

     Bloagie, I agree with your point on Blanton, but my point about not improving was in regards to this offseason. Fat Joe is an upgrade over Kendrick, no question.

116. Georgie Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

     So please explain to me how it is negative to want your team to improve? Yes, they won the ws, we’re all thrilled, but does that mean we’re all supposed to do cartwheels because they chose to remain stagnant? And yes, swapping Ibanez and Burrell is basically a wash, it’s great to have Moyer back, but where is the urgency to remain competetive while everyone else is making moves? You can’t rest on your laurels, the Phillies have done that for decades.

117. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

     I could care less about his 16 wins…. Hamels won 14, and Kendrick won like 10 or 11….. which shows you just how little a “win” means in baseball for the pitchers.

     The most impressive thing to me is Moyer’s streak last year of 14 straight starts allowing 3 runs or less… From JUNE 6th until AUGUST 21st, he didn’t allow more than 3 runs in a game..

     25 of his 33 starts, he allowed 3 runs or less…

     24 of his 34 starts, Derek Lowe allowed 3 runs or less…

     Obviously Derek Lowe is the better pitcher, but its not by as big a margin as we all think, and he’s definitely not a $16 M pitcher, if people are complaining that Jamie Moyer is making $13-16M over two years..

118. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

     Georgie, I agree completely.

     Don M., those are impressive stats, but I think counting on Moyer to repeat last year’s performance is very risky. His expected ERA was close to 4.50, meaning he was pretty fortunate last season.

119. Manny Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

     Georgie gets it.

120. Manny Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

     Don… so to argue in favor of Moyer you pull out the crazy 2008 statistics? But for other players you encourage us to look at their career stats? At least be consistent.

121. RichieAllen Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

     If according to Mitch Williams,Burrell was never offered the 2/22 mil deal.I guess Amaro never intended to bring Burrell back at all.
     Here I’ve been thinking Burrell was foolish for not dealing,But the Phils must have felt he was really declining .
     Wow .just goes to show that we as fans dont have the inside scoop at all.

122. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

     I understand.. but why will Lowe definitely have a great season, and improve, but Moyer will definitely fail

     Common sense would say there was NO POSSIBLE WAY that Moyer could have had a better season last year than he did in 2007, right??

123. RichieAllen Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

     Also earlier in the blog I voiced my opinion on CHAN Ho PARK (negative as far as I’m concerned).But I was informed he had a good year last year.
     But if you have a longer attention span,and look further this guy has been absolutely pummelled in the prior 6-7 years.
     I dont care whether he started or was in the pen for those years..He Sucked and thats it.
     Look I’ll root for him, he is now a Phillie.But I just meant that this is the kind of deal that the Phils always go for and I expected better this year.

124. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

     Because you guys are all saying that THE reason Moyer isn’t good is because of his age, and he can’t repeat those numbers.. Somebody said how he had 16 wins, to which I said wins don’t matter for pitchers..

     I would like to believe that regular season Jamie Moyer, not posteason Jamie Moyer is the real pitcher..

     I got one for all the Burrell Lovers in a minute too.

125. Georgie Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

     Richie, the way they dealt with Pat will always bother me. To not even give him an offer is a mystery, I guess it’s like you said, Amaro had no intentions of resigning him. Paul Hagen’s article about this was very revealing, Pat really wanted to stay here, but the FO wasn’t interested.

126. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

     Don M, the reason why Moyer most likley will not match his ‘08 numbers last year is because he was extremely fortunate to have given up as few runs as he did given the amount of hits/walks and lack of strikeouts. I’m not thinking that he will all of a sudden fall off a cliff because of age, but with a pitcher like him, the margin of error is slim.
     Also, I’m not a Burrell lover, but I do prefer him to a 37 year old Ibanez.

127. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 2:05 pm

     Because I know everyone would kill me if I didn’t include Pat’s great 2005 season (.281, 32 HR, 117 RBI, 78 Runs)

     Here are the averages of Pat Burrell and Raul Ibanez since 2005.

     .262 avg, 31 HR, 99 RBI, 77 Runs scored for Burrell.
     .288 avg, 24 HR, 107 RBI, 90 Runs scored for Ibanez.

     Now over the past 3 seasons, since 2006.

     .254 avg, 31 HR, 93 RBI, 77 Runs scored for Burrell.
     .291 avg, 26 HR, 113 RBI, 89 Runs scored for Ibanez.

     And Ibanez has a .985 career Fielding Percentage in LF, compared to Burrell’s .976

     Ibanez has 30 OF assists, and 13 errors in the past 3 seasons (when he started playing full-time in LF)
     Burrell has 28 OF assists, and 15 errors in the past 3 seasons.

     Ibanez seems like an alright player to me…

128. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

     I agree that Moyer will probably not have the same year he did in 2008… but to get a pitcher as good as he is, for two years at that price is a good deal.

     Im really, really, praying that they get Lowe too, because it would give us a great chance at another postseason run.. but the cost to get him is probably going to be a whole lot more than he is really worth.. and a bad move like that can really trap your team in 2-3 years.

129. Manny Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

     With Moyer, it will get to a point where it will all depend on the home umpire….

130. Mark Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

     If you are looking for someone outside of Philadelphia media who liked the Ibanez pick up, you won’t find anyone.

     It’s exactly like if you were trying to find one baseball analyst who thought the Phillies would beat the Dodgers or the Rays. They were no where to be found until we were up 3-1.

     No one really likes Philadelphia because of the how passionate the real fans are.

     Even that website thebiglead hates Philly. Of course, they don’t blatantly show it. But, if you read into some of their blogs about Philadelphia, it always has some sort of negative connotation to it.

131. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

     Mark, Rob Neyer picked the Phillies to beat the Dodgers and he hates the Ibanez move. There’s no bias there, just analysis.

132. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

     Also, is in unreasonable to expect a 37, 38 and 39 year old Ibanez to not be as good as the 34, 35 and 36 year old Ibanez?

133. Manny Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

     Griffin: Ibanez has been improving, year after year.. plus, the numbers are there to back up the argument that he is at least as good as Burrell. And there of course, are the other factors: he played in a very bad team and still got 100+ rbis, he will probably get more HRs at CBP, he is in great shape (works out every day after a game), he’s a professional overall. Of course, his age will eventually take a toll on the guy… but probably not in his first 2 years of the contract.

134. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

     Manny, I hear ya, I just don’t know why they went out and gave the left-handed Ibanez 3 years for his age 37. 38 and 39 year old seasons, when Burrell or Dunn are going to be younger and cheaper. It just doesn’t make sense to me. By locking themselves into a 3 year deal for Ibanez and re-signing Moyer for 2 years, they’re basically finished for the offseason and it’s incredibly unimpressive.

135. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

     It’s unimpressive sure but why should the front office be impressive? What did it do for the Yankees, Mets, Tigers and all those other teams who made the appealing moves? When the Red Sox won in ‘04 wasn’t it with guys like Mulleur, Bellhorn and Nixon? Didn’ we win a championship with guys like Moyer and Blanton?

     We bid on Lowe there’s no denying that but the FO did it under the radar unlike the Mets, Yankees or Cubs who made their conquests very visible. With the chances of signing Lowe looking remote Amaro made a move for his guy, who would you have prefered- Garland, Oliver Perez, Looper? As for Ibanez don’t you think there’s a reason he’s signed and Burrell and guys like Bradley are looking like their going to have to get very lucky to land a pro-player deal? Do you really think Park was a bad move because we didn’t go after Affeldt or Cruz or do you really think a guy like Springer would have been a better move, from where I’m standing Park looks like he’ll fill a role with a lot more upside vs the cost than anyone other available reliver.

     From where I’m standing we’ve kept a WS winning rotation in tact with promising competition for the 5th spot, we’ve added an everyday outfielder who will be a clubhouse leader, a seemingly intellegent young RH corner outfielder with power and a reliver capable of soaking up around 100 decent innings to compliment Chad Durbin.

     The Phillies needs are sewn up and it’s not even January, maybe Amaro has raced ahead of the market and could miss out on some potential bargains, but to be honest I don’t see who those guys will be that would imrove the roster. I see guys on this roster like Myers, Howard and Rollins who need to have a more consistent year and guys who could come up and contribute from within. If anything I’d like to see Amaro follow what Epstein does and sign a handfull of minor league deals to improve the quality of the AAA for the prospects who’ll be joining it this year.

     Is a good off-season really defined by how much you spend?

136. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

     NJ, the Phillies could have been more creative through trades and used their money more intelligently to improve the team. How exactly? That’s for the front office to figure out. But throwing a 3 year deal at a DH and not taking advantage of the flooded corner outfield market to lower the price (unlike how Gillick waited until Pedro Feliz’s price came down last offseason) and paying 13-16 million and guaranteeing 2 years for Moyer is uncreative. It’s just saying “we won, so why improve? Let’s keep everything together!”.

     It’s hard to argue that the Muts are the most improved team this offseason and the Phillies aren’t better at all.

137. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

     woops, I meant “it’s hard to argue tha the Muts are NOT the most improved team this offseason and the Phillies aren’t better at all.”

138. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

     We don’t look better because it’s glass half empty. I agree the Phillies could have been more creative through trades but I have a sneaky feeling there weren’t any trades to make worth the cost, I like DeRosa but was very unimpressed with how that deal could have turned out. Pitching wise the upper-tier of the market is dry, guys like Cain, Grienke and only available to teams able to part with a Fielder or a Delmon Young and as for veterans there wasn’t really anyone healthy available at a reasonable cost.

     On the half empty side your looking at a bad start from Myers, an guy who will be incapable of sustaining his level of performance due to age in Moyer, an overrated bookend in Blanton. A downgrade with an old ‘DH’ in Ibanez, a guy who’s been figured out in Durbin who’ll expose the bullpen and a handful more headaches to come because of inactivity.

     On the glass half-full side your looking at your GM being aggressive early in the off-season- With an ace, a guy who was considered to have been the 2nd best addition to a rotation in the second half in Myers, Blanton who’s one of the best middle of the rotation guys in the game, Moyer old yes but healthy who doesn’t need high velocity to be effective. A 100+ RBI, clubhouse leader in Ibanez (and the FO will have done their homework on his ability to man left in CBP). We’ve added a mutliple innings reliver to compliment Durbin and let Romero be the match-up late innings guy and Madson’s emerged as a bonifide set-up guy. We’re also looking at Howard and Rollins coming off down years and Donald who is coverted on the trade market who can spot 2nd if Utley misses time.

     On the cup half-full side things look pretty good. I don’t think it’s arrogance that has stopped making serious upgrades from outside rather a confidence in the emergence and expected re-emergences from within.

139. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

     The only serious improvement I’m seeing with the Mets is the addition of Putz and a hell of a lot of good PR. I honestly don’t think K-Rod is a much better reliver than Wagner if he was healthy but the addition of Putz should make the other guys in the bullpen better by less-exposed roles.

     That said their reported to be near the ceiling of their budget and their rotation consists of 3 major league startes, Castillo has been all but admited to be a gaping hole and the positional depth is gone with Tatis being the replacement for Alou.

     The Mets bullpen is incramentally better, but it cost and Minaya’s being given a charitable grade for a GM who’s team still has gaping holes.

140. Manny Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

     NJ: For offense, I use the glass half-full view… But for pitching, you simply can’t afford to be too optimistic. You HAVE to see it half-empty. As of today, we are one Hamels-injury away from being No.2 or 3 in the division. We can’t afford it… and we didn’t mitigate any risks for our starting rotation. Our rotation, still drops off notably after Hamels. (I’m sorry but Park is no insurance…his inconsistent stats speak for themselves)…That’s what concerns me the most.

141. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

     NJ, I look at a bullpen that had career years left and right. I look at Werth and Hamels being able to stay healthy for the first times in their career, I look at Blanton being mediocre, but pitching well in the playoffs, I look at Myers and dont know what to think, I look at Utley out for a month, I look at us getting 5 years older and more left-handed while not improving our defense in leftfield.

     Sure, Ruiz and Rollins are safe bets to have better years and there will be no Eaton or Kendrick in the rotation in ‘09.

     But that’s it. There was no improvement in moves through transactions this offseason and it’s frustrating to see a core that will only be together for 3 more years (before Howard leaves and possibly Hamels after that) and to see the Phillies just sit on their hands and hope that last year’s team will be good enough to hold off the improved Muts and Braves.

142. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

     I think the Muts will make a run at Burrell. They need a right bat to split time with David Murphy in LF and Burrell’s price will come way down. He’ll be a bargain and make the Ibanez signing look silly.
     I also think the Muts will either sign Lowe or re-sign Oliver Perez. I hope it’s Perez.

143. Manny Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

     I hope Pat the Bat goes to the Rays… but you never know, he prefers playing in LF than being DH…

144. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

     They can’t afford Burrell and Perez, Minaya’s said they probably can’t afford a guy of Lowe’s cost and that still leaves them with virtually no bench depth and no insurance whatsoever if Neise doesn’t work out. Their also relying on Delgado, Castillo and Beltran being healthy because there’s no depth past guys like Tatis also having virtually nothing servicable in the minors past complete long-shots.

     I feel much better as a Phils fan and not so scared of the Mets when you break down far more deficiencies than the Phillies.

145. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

     I didn’t read the past few comments, but saw the one about Burrell and Dunn being cheaper than Ibanez..

     Burrell and Dunn both hit for way more power, but not for “average” which is the one that makes our offense so inconsistent.. you add a few more guys that can hit around .300 instead of .250, and your team is better as a whole..

     Now if one of those guys that hits closer to .300 also knocks in more RBIs, and scores more Runs… than the guy who hits only .250.. i’d say that’s a pretty smart move to improve the team

146. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

     Don M, Burrell has a better OBP and SLG in his career. OBP is a better stat than BA because it factors in walks. So yes, Ibanez does get more singles, but Burrell gets on base more often and hits for better power.

     NJ, I agree with you that the Muts still have deficiencies, and I hope they don’t get Lowe and selfishly don’t want them to get Burrell. The Muts will be favorites to win the division, but they’ve been favorites the last two years as well.

147. Tyler Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

     Why is everyone so against sheets… we could get him cheap and when he’s healthy he could be a potential ace… i say 3/36 should work… maybe even less… everyone’s concerned about his health issues but then they proceed to say that we have so many young pitchers waiting in the wings to take over… go with sheets as a solid #2 and know you have security in your young guns

148. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

     Tyler, I’d rather give Lowe 2/34 than Sheets 3/36. Sheets is always hurt and couldn’t even pitch down the stretch or in the playoffs last year. I’d be shocked if anyone gives him 3 years.

149. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

     Pat Burrell has been getting paid MILLIONS of dollars to drive in runs… not to “get on base”…

     Ibanez drives in more Runs, and scores more runs… and you win baseball games by scoring more runs than your opponent, not by getting on base more than your opponent

     I would also rather give Lowe 2/34 than Sheets 3/36… for that exact same reason. Signing Derek Lowe would make JA Happ instantly available to teams to pickup in a trade.. a package of Happ and Jason Donald would be able to get you a serious return.. but outside of more starting pitching.. what does this team even need? A 3b of the future… but that may or may not be Donald..

     I don’t think they sign Lowe, but I dont know who gets him.. I think Tex is going to the RedSox, and I think the Yankees sign Manny Ramirez just for fun

150. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm

     You guys know my stance.. and you also know that I pull random stats out my a$$ to support whatever arguement I’m making.

     Put for people to complain that Ibanez is too old at 36, but his production has acutally gone UP the past few years, while Burrell’s has gone down..

     and the things Burrell leads in are OBP% and SLUGGING… that is a real stretch.

     I understand that everyone likes Burrell, and I wanted them to keep him around for like 2 more years.. because I like him.. but he’s also driven me nuts as a Phillies fan because he’s so inconsistent. I wish him all the best, but I’d like to see him walk all the way to Oakland, where they value OBP% above all else

151. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

     “Ibanez drives in more Runs, and scores more runs… and you win baseball games by scoring more runs than your opponent, not by getting on base more than your opponent”

     Don’t you have to get on base in order to score runs?

     Over a 162 game season, both Burrell and Ibanez average 81 runs scored. Ibanez averages 93 RBI, Burrell averages 103 RBI.

152. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:15 pm

     Don the haters can make an optmist a sceptic but the optimists can’t make the haters believers because they only want to see one side of the arguement and fantasize about deals that can’t be completed.

153. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

     NJ, why am I considered a “hater”? I don’t like the Ibanez and Moyer signings and suddenly I’m a negative whiner and a hater?

     What do you want me to say, that all the stats I’m finding are misprints, that all the articles and opinions I’m reading are wrong? You have your opinion, I have mine. I’m not labeling you as a “hater” just because we have differing opinions.

     Also, I like debating with Don M, he sounds like a good guy and has interesting points.

154. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

     How many 6 innings appearances by Burrell would add up to 162 full games?

     NJ… I wish you would have told me that in September while I was arguing that the Phillies weren’t “DONE”… and asked everyone “What if we sweep the Brewers”…

155. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

     LOL Don M, unfortunately Ibanez will have to be replaced defensively as well!

156. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

     Griffin I do apologise and meant that more generally. Kudos on having a real debate, I was just venting on all the arbitrary hating there is on here especially when there’s constant anger about moves that can’t be made otherwise they would have.

157. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

     I’m a hell of a guy… funny, good looking..

     I don’t really like arguing with people on here.. I just think its weird that like when I talk baseball with my dad, coworkers, and my friends.. they are all usually on the same page as me..

     and most of the people on here sound like they work for 610WIP and get paid for each negative comment they make.

     Griffin, did you see the stuff I put up about their averages since 2005, and then again since 2006? Its interesting

158. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

     NJ, I hear ya. When people say things like “our owners are cheap, this team has no chance” I roll my eyes as well.

     The frustrating thing for me is that I was unsure of how to improve the team this offseason, but in my opinion giving a 3 year deal to Ibanez and 2 years to Moyer does not improve the team.

     Also, I live in NY and seeing the Muts get J.J. Putz for a bag of balls is frustrating.

     Oh well, I’m counting down the days until Opening Day/Night!

159. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

     Don M, I’ll check those stats out. I’m hoping that Ibanez does well, I just hate giving him that 3rd year…and losing those picks. I’m a huge draft junkie and the Phillies system is improving, but losing those picks will hurt in the long run, there’s no arguing with that.
     On a positive note, Dominic Brown is quickly becoming a real solid prospect. He’s passed Marson as the #2 in our system behind Carassco.

160. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:30 pm

     Yo but seriously… how funny my comment about how many 6 inning appearances add up to 162 … Sometimes, I think im hilarious and witty.

     From Today’s Daily News article by Paul Hagen:
     Charlie Manuel said that Ibanez is a “good, solid leftfielder” who runs well and that he wouldn’t expect to remove him in the late innings for a defensive replacement or pinch-runner as he generally did with Burrell. “He can play the full nine innings,” the manager said.

161. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

     wow, that surprises me that Chollie would say that. Then again, he hasn’t seen him in person in awhile. Seriously, Ibanez is a statue out there. I hope for the Phillies’s sake that Manuel replaces him defensively, if not on the basepaths. I felt he sometimes took out Burrell too early though.

162. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:33 pm

     Am with you there Griffin on the comments. I agree we haven’t improved with personnel but I think the personnel improves the guys already on the roster.

     As for Putz, though it was a good trade the Mets did give up almost all of their depth and Seattle made off pretty well in that deal if gives like Heilman and Fransisco play to their ability.

163. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:34 pm

     The FO and coaches will have done their homework on Ibanez before signing him, this isn’t an off-the-cuff get Burrell out move.

164. Don M Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

     I agree that he took Burrell out too early, but with a chance to add a run, you couldn’t afford to have Burrell out there because he’s below average and can’t manage a 1st-to-3rd or scoring from 2nd…. as you would expect a major league player to.

     Didn’t the Mets give up their top OF prospect in the Putz deal? …and they’ll lose Putz to FA next year too I think.. I guess when your bullpen is THAT bad, you really need to go all out. Pitching has gone from a weakness, to a strength of theirs with just 2 moves. That said, I think Madson is better, and Lidge is better then blownSave-Rod

165. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

     True, I’m sure they researched it a lot beforehand…but that’s what I told myself before the Eaton signing….
     Seriously, the Eaton deal was hated by everyone since Eaton was never good. What a freaking disaster that was.

166. Griffin Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

     No, the Muts kept their top prospects. OF Fernando Martinez and SS Wilmer Flores are their top 2.

167. NJ Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

     The Mets farm well is virtually dry past those prospects, looks like they have a couple of decent ones then nothing between those and the ‘non-prospects’.

168. mets09 Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

     Don your numbers are very weak. Im sure I could go and find stats to show areas where burrell is better then ibanez.

     The fact remains, Ibanez hit right in the middle of the order in seatle. He will not be hitting in the middle of the order in philly. Meaning he will have ess rbi chances=less rbi’s/also he will be hitting behind your big hitters, meaning less people to drive him in. Those numbers will be similar to burrells minus the average

169. Chase Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 9:20 pm

     Mets09, Charlie Manuel said he will put Ibanez at the 5th of the 6th spot

170. Chase Says:
     December 16th, 2008 at 9:20 pm

     Mets09, Charlie Manuel said he will put Ibanez at the 5th of the 6th spot.

171. Youth Baseball Parks Blog » Blog Archive » Two More Years Says:
     December 17th, 2008 at 3:45 am

     [...] ageless Jamie Moyer signs a two-year deal with the Phillies. He’ll be 47 when the deal is [...]

172. Don M Says:
     December 17th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

     I like how a Mets fan calls my arguement “weak” because the stats that I used were Batting Average, HR, RBI, and Runs Scored… meanwhile most of the arguement for Pat Burrell is because he has a higher OBP% and SLUGGING%

     Last year.. Ibanez was on base 253 times, Burrell 237.. So a higher on base percentage is great, but the fact that the manager who we all now consider one of, if not “THE BEST PHILLIES MANAGER OF ALL TIME”…. the fact that he felt the need to pull Burrell because his mistakes outweighed his positives, says a lot to me

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