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59 Responses to “Phillies Trade Thread: July 29”

1. RhyZa Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 9:24 am

   Ok, I’ve been lurking as a Jays fan, and I can understand your frustration.

   In my view, I don’t know why the Jays are insisting on Happ. There is no high degree of certainty that he will sustain his current performance in the future so I don’t see why JP is insisting on getting him back in a deal. We have no reason to try to weaken Philly this year and I find it ridiculous if the reason is that he wants a player who is major-league ready simply to save face or appease fans from a PR perspective.

   I would be fine with a package of

   Drabek
   Brown
   Donald
   Taylor
   Marson (if excessive, switch with Knapp)

   Now, I’m sure a 5 for 1 will seem excessive, even without Happ so I’m sure we could throw in another player/prospect to balance it out. My questions is would you guys pull the trigger on this? And if not, which prospect(s) would you want to take out, assuming it is still too much?

   My thinking is when you are not acquiring an ‘A’ prospect, I’d rather get quantity over quality and bank on 1 or 2 of them panning out. For the record, I think Boston prospects are overrated and I really hope we don’t deal with them (besides the obvious reasons).

   I’ll be rooting for you guys if you get Doc, that’s for sure. I expect Doc to play for many more years, and at a high level. He’s a true pitcher who can conserve his arm with quick innings/games, even if it eventually means he can’t threaten to go CG every time out there (although I wouldn’t put it past him). Consumate pro, class act, and many of our fans would rather see him get an opportunity to contend than toil in mediocrity with us. I think this is one of the greatest testaments you can make for a player even if it makes us look like a bunch of Judas’.

2. Don M Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 9:32 am

   As a Jays fan.. you can’t seriously expect the Phillies to give up 3, TOP 25 PROSPECTS, …or 4, TOP 50 PROSPECTS … for Roy Halladay

   Halladay is great, but no team is going to give that asking price..

   If they act now, they can get TWO TOP PROSPECTS.. if the Jays wait until the offseason, they’ll be limited to ONE ..

3. RhyZa Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 9:40 am

   I should have phrased it ‘ideally’, I was thinking Downs or Scutaro could be part of the deal. But assuming they are not, which prospects would be excluded from that list. I think a 4 for 1 would be fair ? Now I’m not privy to how these prospects are currently doing, I’m just going off on Sickels 2009 update which grades most of them B- to C range. They could have improved considerably making my proposal seem ‘off’. What would your proposal be minus Happ?

4. Brett Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 9:48 am

   RhyZa,

   I think the general consensus is that we’re willing to give up Brown OR Taylor, with preference to Taylor, because he’s closer to the Bigs and therefore blocked. Drabek, it would seem, is a must-have in any deal, so he’d have to go, but I think a package of Drabek-Brown-Donald-Stutes or Flande-Marson isn’t out of the question.

   I just seriously doubt we’re going to gve up our two best positional prospects.

5. Ben Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 10:00 am

   Rhyza, as has been said, we aren’t going our three best prospects plus additional pieces for halladay. we concede you need taylor or brown, and we would rather give taylor since he’s closer and blocked. timing wise brown works out better (although people say brown will be better in the bigs).

   drabek is a must.

   after that i think you guys would want donald to back up at short soon and then a fourth prospect that really wouldn’t hamper any deal. if you insist on carrasco or marson or whoever outside of the mlb roster and a top 50 prospect.

6. Don M Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 10:14 am

   Drabek, Taylor, Brown, are all TOP 25 PROSPECTS according to Baseball America … and Jason Knapp is listed in the TOP 50 (but not given a definite #)

   My offer would be:
   Drabek, Brown, Carlos Carrasco, and Jason Donald (who both played in the All-Star Futures game last year.. Donald was also on the Olympic team.. and Carrasco was our #1 Pitching Prospect until Drabek stepped it up over him)

   Blue Jays would get TWO of the THREE guys they asked for (we keep JA Happ)… both of those guys are TOP 25 … they also get Carrasco, who might be ready to pitch in the big leagues next year.. and Jason Donald, who would provide a SS, or a utility player option for the Blue Jays next year

   that’s my final offer.. not sure if the Phillies pitched it or not

7. Mazinman Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 10:15 am

   I think Jayson Stark nailed it on the head with his analysis. This deal should still get done, even with all the problems right now, because both GMs desperately need it. Ricciardi handcuffed his team with bad contracts. His one hope is to win, and save his job, is to build up the farm with enough talent to be able to win when the handcuffs come off. As for the Phillies, its Roy Halladay. By picking him up we go from being a great team to being able to start using the “D” word. Amaro will have some explaining to do if he does not make this trade.

   RhyZa, I would not do that trade because no other team has come close to that. Its the market that dictates price and its been a buyer’s market so far when it comes to Halladay. No team has been willing to make the sort of crazy offer that starts a bidding war. I can’t blame your GM for trying hard to raise the price as much he can, as annoying as that may be for a Phillies fan like myself, however the time is soon approaching when both sides will have to compromise.

   The Jays will have to admit they can’t get as much as they would like. The Phillies will have to admit that they can’t get Halladay as cheap as they would like. Once both react that point then they should be able to make a deal to satisfy both teams.

8. Manny Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 10:18 am

   I’ve been hearing that we could get Lee without Drabek… but by sending them Knapp, Kyle Kendrick, and probably 2 more guys…. If Ruben gets this deal (which, by the way, I think will be good for the Indians too)he’s a genius. Lee, AL CY Young Winner last year? Hell yea!

9. Manny Says:
   July 29th, 2009 at 10:21 am

   Or maybe Ruben can get the Jays to accept a Drabek and Brown (2 for 1) deal??? After all, they’ve been talking sh*t about Happ saying he’s a middle-bottom of rotation kind of pitcher, so why do they really want him?

   RhyZa: Taylor is an A prospect, just like Drabek and Brown… and as Don said, right now the most you’ll get is 2 A prospects…wait till the offseason and you’ll get 1…

10. Don M Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    those two more guys would have to be … Michael Taylor and Carrasco/or/Marson

    Lee isn’t coming cheap.. Knapp isn’t close to the Major Leagues.. and Kendrick is a worse pitcher than Oliver Perez

11. Havoc Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    Is anyone else freaked out that it’s 10:30am and there haven’t been any updates on MLBTraderumors… I’m getting a little twitchy…

12. NJ Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    I can’t believe the Jays flat out turned down the offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco and Donald. The Phils have been said to have tunnel vision on Halladay, the Jays have tunnel vision on Drabek.

13. RhyZa Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    For the record, I think those are fair proposals. I’m not sure if we’re high on Carrasco for some reason he seems to have dropped off whereas not too long ago he was considered your #1.

    And I really think JP will take an offer similar to the one you put out there, but he wants to see if he can get any better offers. Of course, the flip side is there is a risk involved in case the Phillies lose patience and go after Lee instead. But something tells me that there is an implied agreement in place already, and it is just a case of when it gets announced, and if either team finds a more desirable offer. I also don’t think Lee is traded for peanuts. They wanted Bucholz for V Martinez, so it’s likely Lee will cost at least the same and likely more. I still think the Jays/Phillies are good partners, and there is no reason for a deal not to be made here.

14. Rich Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:28 am

    I agree with you Manny, but I think we’ll end up doing a deal for Halladay. Not only that, I think we’ll end up getting him for close to our counter-offer. A little more, but not wildly more.

15. Kenny Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:29 am

    Just put Drabek in the deal. The Phillies are great but with Halladay the skys the limit. Come on Jr. You were a bad baseball player now make up for it.

16. NJ Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    On a random, I expect and hope Pedro Feliz’s option to be picked up though I wonder if the Phils have ticked the tyres on Josh Fields… Obviously he hasn’t produced at the major league level with any consistency but I just wonder…

17. Bob Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Drabek-Brown-Carrassco-Donald for Halladay

    Lets get this done, this is a fair deal for both sides.

    Jays get our top pitching prospect, our top (or 2nd, how you choose to view it) OF prospect, our 2nd or 3rd pitching prospect and our top infield prospect.

    Phils get Roy Freaking Halladay for 2 pennant runs and maybe more.

    The teams are going to have to meet in the middle somewhere, you would think??

18. Geoff Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Modells already has thosuands of Halladay jerseys ordered, the names already printed, all they need to know is the number.

19. Rich Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Don M,

    You’re a better pitcher than Oliver Perez, come on now. I know you’ll show me a stat now that proves he’s better than Kendrick, fine, but he’s the least valuable pitcher maybe in the league this year, when looking at his contract vs. performance.

20. Geoff Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:41 am

    I was so happy when the Mets gave all that money to Oliver Perez, I remember him when he was in Pittsburgh when I lived there in college. TOTAL basket case. Great stuff, can be great, but NEVER will be because he doesnt have the mental makeup.

21. NJ Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    I think the Phils would discuss Drabek or Brown but not both and definitely not both with either Taylor/Carrasco depending on which of the first is traded.

    So many mixed messages, for one if the Jays don’t like Happ to headline a deal that much then why did they insist on him only turn down an offer that included 2 of their 4 wanted guys. Whole thing just baffles me.

22. Geoff Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:46 am

    Well I think what happened was that the rest of the MLB teams called their bluff and now the Jays are scrambling. Boston’s offer – if they even made it – is far inferior to ours. The only reason it got attention is because those guys are overhyped Red Sox prospects.

    The Phillies can go after Lee, Washburn, or Duke – but the Jays cant really find anyone else to match up wtih so theyre in trouble now.

23. Steve-o Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:46 am

    I’ve actually said from the beginning that we should be comfortable giving up Drabek, but not Happ. Happ is helping us NOW, Drabek is not.

    Give them Drabek, Taylor, Donald, and Knapp/Marson. Let’s go get another ring.

24. Richie Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    Interesting note…Carrasco scratched from the start tonight and Donald and Marson are out of the lineup..I just read it and don’t know how true it is.

25. Bob Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    I think we can deal Brown because I think we will need Taylor in 2-3 years. Heck, maybe Brown will be ready in 2-3 years. If we hold Taylor or Brown, I am happy.

    Happ is not going to be the make or break of this deal, IMO. We should be able to keep him and rock and roll with this rotation.

    This is going to get done. I find it interesting that Halladay and Happ are scheduled to pitch today though.

26. Manny Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    At this point, so close to the deadline with the Phillies going hard after Lee, the Jays would be FOOLISH not to accept a deal of:

    Drabek-Brown-Carrasco-Donald, for Halladay

    …And I think that the Phillies would also be foolish to offer that much.

    The Jays are in a bad position now: they could make an offer of Halladay for Drabek-Brown-Donald (replacing Happ with Donald from the initial offer) and STILL get rejected by the Phillies.

    And please, stop viewing CLIFF LEE as a “consolation prize” if we don’t get Halladay!! He just won the AL CY Young!!!!!! And IF we can get him without shipping Drabek, then I’m in favor for this potential trade.

27. Steve-o Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Breaking news: According to Phuture Phillies, Jason Donald, Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco, AND Michael Taylor have all been stratched from Today’s starting lineup in Lehigh Valley. Brace yourselves folks

28. Manny Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    Sounds like Cliff Lee to me, Steve-o! If this is true and we keep Happ, Drabek, and Brown… WOW

29. Ed R. Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    Happ-Donald-Marson-Brown-Carrasco for Halladay….certainly is a lot but I can not see JP not getting Brown and Happ if he is going to not take Drabek.

    Of course – Carrasco-Marson-Brown-Knapp for Lee is a possibility as well.

    I also read that Carrasco, Marson and Donald were all pulled from tonight’s game.

30. Bob Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Whoa boy, can anyone provide a link with the info on who was strached from the lineup?

31. Ed R. Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:05 am

    http://phuturephillies.com/

32. Geoff Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    interesting….is Halladay scratched too?

33. Barney Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    Its going to be Lee. The Jays had no interest in Carasco. I think this trade works out well. ex

34. Ed R. Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    No Halladay is not a scratch and neither is Happ.

35. Don M Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Cliff Lee can’t carry Roy Halladay’s jock.. I’d rather have him than Washburn.. but Halladay is a freakin stud.. Lee was in the minors two years ago and sucked to begin this year..

    …
    Carlos Carrasco is still listed as the probabl starting pitcher on the IronPigs website. But the game started at 11:05 and “Woods” is pitching. Michael Taylor is in the starting lineup, batting #5 and playing Left Field…but Marson and Donald are not playing.

    …
    Kyle Kendrick’s ERA this year is 13.50 with a WHIP of 2.50
    Oliver Perez’s ERA is 7.42, with a WHIP of 2.02

    Just busting balls Rich.. but Kendrick really is terrible and would be a throw-in in any trade.. since he would only start for really, really bad teams, and still be their #5 or a long reliever
    ….

36. Manny Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Agree, Barney… Plus, I read that the Indians scouted the Phillies system pretty heavily last year (when Carrasco was our top prospect), so I think they like him much more than the Jays do.

    This is exciting!

37. Steve-o Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    Michael Taylor is in the lineup. This has gotta be Lee.

    Is the deal Carrasco, Donald, Marson, for Lee? You’d think we’d have to give up someone else, no? I mean if that’s the deal then wow….

38. Don M Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:18 am

    The Indians would laugh at us if that was the offer.. and 10 other teams have moves that could easily top that..

    We’re getting Roy Halladay.. I can feel it.. right in my pants

39. bla bla bla Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4363553
    ^link from espn saying trade is imminent for lee supposedly
    if we’re gettin lee then maybe kendrick 2?? I heard somewhere that they kinda liked him… cant remember where

40. NJ Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    Roy Halladay’s a great pitcher who’s pricetag is prohibitive, Cliff Lee is a very good pitcher looking as if he’s capable of sustaining a near if not elite level and if the Phils deal for him as the reigning Cy Young winner without giving up a top prospect then that’s a win. To me it says a lot about Shapiro’s understanding of the market compared to Riccardi, not saying the deals for Halladay and Lee should be the same but a night and day difference really does speak volumes.

41. Georgie Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    It’s like Christmas morning and you’re not quite sure what’s in that present with the big red bow under the tree-will it be that awesome red Tonka truck or just a pair of slippers? Oh, if we could only peek!

42. Steve-o Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:24 am

    I don’t think it’s Halladay. And Don, what if we add Knapp to that package? Maybe they don’t laugh at that so much.

43. Manny Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    …or maybe they’re trying to scare the Blue Jays bwahhahaha!

    Georgie, I hope you’re not comparing Cliff Lee to “just a pair of slippers”!!!

44. Georgie Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    haha, no , Manny, Cliff lee would be like a new car for my HO train set, anything less would be just the slippers.

45. Philly Geoff Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    Lee, a RH bat, and a reliever while hanging on to Happ, Drabek, Brown and Taylor.

    That would be perfect.

46. Padilla Flutilla Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    It’s Halladay… Phils are publicizing their pursuit of Lee almost too deliberately. They are gonna put together a package of much lesser value for Cliff Lee that could get it done, publicize it, and hope JP gets on the phone with the goal of working something out.

47. Don M Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Lee isn’t as good as Halladay… so while it would be nice to make a deal and hold onto prospects.. I would still MUCH rather have Roy Halladay..

    JP RICCARDI will be fired ASAP if he doesn’t deal Halladay.. especially while turning down solid offers

48. Bob Says:
    July 29th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Don,

    I would also rather have Halladay, but Lee bolsters the rotation. So Im not going to sit here pissed off if that happens. Hamels and Lee are a damn good 1-2 and can win us another World Series.

    And I agree Riccardi will be fired if this happens and he doesn’t move Halladay. But if Halladay doesn’t move and we get Lee that is another HUGE win in this scenario

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