Offense Fails Phils, Hamels Yet Again in Minnesota – Phillies Nation
2013 Game Recaps

Offense Fails Phils, Hamels Yet Again in Minnesota

Hamels was solid, but not good enough on Tuesday behind an anemic offensive effort. (Photo: AP)

Hamels was solid, but not good enough on Tuesday behind an anemic offensive effort. (Photo: AP)

It took the Phillies offense eight innings to get two hits in one frame on Tuesday night.  Ryan Howard’s two-out eighth inning single tied the score at two.  It took their bullpen only five batters to give it right back, as a Justin Morneau single off Antonio Bastardo a half inning later sealed their fate against the Twins.  The 3-2 loss was the fourth straight for the Phils.

At this point, you have to feel Cole Hamels’ pain.  The lefty was nowhere near sharp, but he refused to come unglued and kept his team in the game.  The Phillies have now scored 31 runs for Hamels in his 14 starts.  Yuck.


– All night, the Phillies were swinging early and often at the low-to-mid 80s fastball of P.J. Walters.  I don’t remember the last time I saw a mediocre pitcher have such an easy time with a major league lineup… or at least not one based north of Miami.  The Phillies had seven hits, but they only hit four balls hard by my count, two of which came off the bat of Michael Young.

– As an unexceptional Twins lineup grinded out quality at-bat after quality at-bat against the All-Star caliber Hamels, the Phils hacked at anything soft-tossing and unproven Walters threw towards the plate.  Here are the pitches-per-inning for the two starters through six innings: Hamels: 18, 22, 18, 23, 11, 16 for 108 pitches.  Walters: 13, 12, 8, 14, 17, 14 for 78 pitches.  Wow.

– The Phillies were able to scratch out a second run in the top of the eighth, stringing together three singles, the last coming from Howard.  With runners on, the Twins were unable to play the shift and the not-so-Big Piece ripped a hanging breaking ball through the infield to tie the game at two.  A single from Michael Young in the third accounted for the team’s first run.


A half inning later, Bastardo had Morneau buried in a 1-2 count with two outs and runners on the corners.  Morneau fouled off three pitches before lining a single up the middle to break the 2-2 tie.  As Chris Wheeler pointed out, it was surprising Bastardo threw Morneau a fastball, much less one right down the middle, with the count so heavily in his favor.


– For all that was made of Hamels coming to grips with what he can’t control from a mental standpoint, the $144MM lefty sure looked like the emotional mess we saw for most of the 2013 campaign on Tuesday night.  Hamels was visibly frustrated on the mound, as the Twins hitters ran deep counts, fouling off pitch after pitch.  He labored through six innings, allowing seven hits and two earned runs.  He exited after the sixth with the Phillies trailing 2-1.

– Despite only allowing two runs, Hamels threw 81 pitches in the first four innings and finished with 108.  After sparring with the home plate umpire in the fourth, an irascible Hamels allowed four straight hits – three doubles and a single, all hit hard – that gave the Twins a 2-1 lead in the bottom of the fourth.  Cole was bailed out when a nifty play by Freddy Galvis resulted in an inning-ending double play.  The first two doubles, by Josh Willingham and Morneau, definitely would have left the yard at Citizens Bank Park.

– Hamels recovered nicely to pitch impressive frames in the fifth and sixth.  While his line looked pretty good at the end of the night, Cole would probably be the first to tell you he’d much prefer a smoother path to a quality start.   The Twins fouled off an incredible 28 pitches against him.


– The Phillies failed to homer for the first time in 15 games on Tuesday night at spacious Target Field.  They went 7-7 over that 14 game stretch.

– The offense may have failed Hamels, but his defense did not.  In addition to Galvis’ run-saving play in the fourth, Michael Young made a great diving stop to his right in the sixth which helped lead to a scoreless frame for Hamels.

– Molasses-slow and a liability in the outfield, it’s pretty obvious that Delmon Young’s contributions can only come through his bat.  With that considered, Young has to be the worst overall player in recent memory being written into a Phillies lineup on an everyday basis.  Young was 0 for 4 on Tuesday, seeing a measly 11 pitches in his four plate appearances.  Eleven pitches in four at-bats.  The man truly is a quick and automatic out.  The lesser Young is now hitting .224/.281/.422 on the season.



  1. George

    June 11, 2013 at 11:46 pm

    It mayb have been surprisng that Bastardo threw that fastball, but I’d bear in mind that the Phil’s catchers right now are their 3rd and 4th options. I wonder if Ruiz or Kratz would have called for something else.

    The problem with this game really wasn’t the pitching, anyway. Scoring a meager two runs was the real problem.

    I’m beginning to side with those who say fire sale. I don’t think it would help much, though, because the Phils have almost zero to offer other teams, unless they decide to part with Lee, Hamels, and Papelbon. I’m also beginning to side with those who want Manuel gone. It’s not that I think he’s the horrible manager some people believe him to be, but I just think perhaps a shakeup of the entire team is in order. I think it would do Charlie some good mental health-wise, too. He must be just as frustrated with his offense as Hamels is, and has the added problem of managing a worthless bullpen. If things aren’t changed soon, Hamels and Manuel will probably have to be institutionalized.

    • "Big Ed" Delahanty

      June 12, 2013 at 6:12 am

      I have those same thoughts and you said them better than I could of, as my disgust with the team would have most likely caused me to stray from stating those thoughts you presented, and, instead my post would have rambled on in anger. I really think, unless something drastically changes, that we need to be sellers and soon.

      • Ryne Duren

        June 12, 2013 at 12:01 pm

        Ditto with you and George Big Ed.

    • Brooks

      June 12, 2013 at 7:45 am

      How about stopping interleague play?
      Its overrated.
      Drop Howard to hitting 5th or 6th, regardless of his RBI last night (he now has 5 RBI for the month which is keeping him on a pace for what 80 this year?
      Regardless, taking Howard out of the lineup in the past or doing something like dropping him in the lineup has historically shown to make a difference in his ‘attitude’ which, if nothing physical has come forth as a problem, what else can it be – usually spikes his production even if just until Brown kicks it in again.
      Cholly, at least show us, the fans, your fans you are making an effort and do something that might seem radical to you but hopeful to us.. sit Demon Young, move Howard in the batting rotation – for some reason M Young seems to be working out better hitting leadoff but he is not a leadoff batter –
      Do something Cholly – getting rid of Dustbin was great, thanks – keep it up, do something Cholly.

      • schmenkman

        June 12, 2013 at 8:21 am

        @brooks, you might need a little more than “what else can it be” to be credible in disparaging someone’s attitude.

        “Dropping him in the lineup has historically shown…” — The only time he’s ever been dropped was for 4 games in late June 2008, when he was hitting .214/.309/.454. Then he got hot in the second half, like he has almost every year of his career.

        Not saying that he shouldn’t be dropped, but there is no historical evidence to speak of that it will help either him or the team.

        I understand the desire to shake things up though, and sitting or jettisoning Delmon. M Young is fine hitting leadoff — he has certainly gotten on base well, has shown no power, and it minimizes the chance he’ll hit into a DP.

  2. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 12, 2013 at 3:18 am

    When you have GM and manager who think its acceptable to trot out a 3and a 4 hitter each with an OPS hovering around .700 what do you really expect?

    Charlie is living in 2007 and Ruben is just clueless.

    Why would a fire sale with a clueless GM be a good thing?

    Also the fact that Dom Brown lead the NL in Home runs in May is great. He and Galvis are the only 2 players on the roster Id keep.

    But how shocking is it that he drew 0 walks in May? you lead the majors in homers and don’t draw a single walk?

    There is a deep infection with this team that’s been here a long time.
    Its not the players fault either.
    Playing the game right is not appreciated or encouraged.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 12, 2013 at 12:11 pm

      Yea Andrew it’s crazy that he didn’t walk once in a whole month! I mean even by default you get a walk. Also as hot as he was and how cold the reat of the lineup is he should have gotten at least an intentional walk! Truely amazing.
      As far as the deep infection Andrew I think it’s the Guru. In spring the players seemed to be heeding the words of our tow new hitting instructors. But once the season started they reverted right back to the same crappy at bats.
      And as far as a fire sale with rube in charge? I think about that and tremble in fear of how bad he’d get fleeced. As a fan and a long time fan I can’t imagine how far back rube would put us with lame trades. He’s good at throwing money at big players, but trading for a good player? haven’t seen much on the positive side of that. They need changes and it has to start at the top! Rube and then work your way down. Monty has to grow as set of man balls and forget about what some did in the past for the org. He has to look at what theyre doing now and just look back the last 2-3 years. that should be his parameter.

      • George

        June 12, 2013 at 2:08 pm

        I guess you don’t consider Lee and Halladay to be good players that Amaro traded for. Hunter Pence was also gotten in a trade, although he was too costly. Mayberry is maybe only an adequate 4th outfielder, but he didn’t cost anything of even 4th outfielder quality, and some of the people he’s traded for (Joseph, for example) haven’t had a chance to [prove what they might be worth.

        I’ll agree that Amaro has made some bad trades, but he’s also made some good ones, just like every other GM in the business.

  3. Fritz

    June 12, 2013 at 7:14 am

    I couldn’t watch but think the entire team is now infected with the anti-baseball virus.
    We need to get a new GM, and give away every last player that’s infected and start with a healthy young team. Bring in a doctor of baseball to do this and fire every last coach they are infected too.We as fans need to stay away from the ballpark for awhile until the infection is contained.

  4. Lefty

    June 12, 2013 at 7:28 am

    I asked this question in Spring training when it was clear that Antonio Bastardo was not even competing for a job, his position was a given. He was consistently mentioned with Paps and Adams as sure things.

    Why? What has he done so well that he’s not even competing for a job? Three months later I’d still like an answer. 19 hits AND 14 walks in just 22 innings pitched, think about that. The guy pitches to one batter, or maybe an inning at most at a time, with a WHIP of 1.48. That’s 33 base runners in 22 innings.

    Antonio Bastardo had on great 3/4 season in 2011, and was handed a job this year on reputation alone. IMO That just doesn’t work for marginal players.

    And I don’t even know where to begin on Mike Adams except to say, in general, don’t pay for free agent relievers. Use your system guys and let them prove themselves, they will fail more than they succeed, but at least you don’t waste money on them. And sometimes after years of failure, you develop a good one. How is NL saves leader, Jason Grilli doing this year? He should still be here pitching for the Phils.

    I hear people all the time with very little patience for young relievers, IMO- you have to coach them and work with them, give them time. You don’t buy them from other teams, and you never ever guarantee them jobs. Antonio may have a sensational year at some point again in his career, maybe the rest of this year- who knows with relievers? But not as long as he is comfortable that he will never lose his job.

    • George

      June 12, 2013 at 9:52 am

      Bastardo had had some success. The other lefthanders, Savery, Valdez, who even remembers who else, had never had any at the ML level. That’s why Bastardo was pretty much guaranteed a job. Had he been a righty, there may have been more competition.

      As far as young relievers go, I think it’s probably good to have a veteran or two around for some guidance. I think the Phils picked the wrong veterans, though. Adams was too much of a health risk to be given a two-year contract, and Durbin plain didn’t have it anymore.

      I’m not saying you’re wrong about it, though. I’m just pointing out some reasons why the front office may have made the choice of Bastardo, and why they might have picked up a veteran or two.

      I sometimes think the fault lies in the scouting department. Too many of the signees (Qualls, Durbin, D.Young, Wigginton, Nix) have been busts, and most of the prospects have been less than stellar. I really wonder if any of these particular young relievers will ever be any good; some seemed okay last year, like Horst and Aumont, but this year, Horst’s ERA is in the stratosphere, and Aumont is in the minors. I won’t even get into some of the other AAA arms. The Phils seem to place too much emphasis on velocity and not enough on command. Same sort of thing with position players: tools are only good if the player knows how to use them.

      • Lefty

        June 12, 2013 at 11:37 am

        Sometimes you think the fault lies with the scouting? I have no doubt it does. It would also help if the organization didn’t resist looking at the newer numbers which are available, instead of publicly eschewing them.

        I am quite certain that when Amaro made the statement about how the players stack up on “the backs of their baseball cards”, he misspoke as many being questioned by the media do, and they don’t really look at that kind of thing when evaluating players. But it was not a statement that gives me confidence in the scouting department either.

        And to correct something I wrote poorly above, I didn’t mean that it had to be all young relievers, I agree that Veterans are good to have around. I just meant they shouldn’t be paying high dollar for them.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 12, 2013 at 12:13 pm

      He’s what I call trade bait lefty. And I do remember you asking that question.I can’t remember the rest of my world though! lol

      • Lefty

        June 12, 2013 at 1:16 pm

        If they trade him, he’ll become great again! Sure seems to be the way things work lately. Good to hear from you Ryne, keep laughing, it’s the worlds best medicine.

  5. hogey's role

    June 12, 2013 at 9:54 am

    “I don’t remember the last time I saw a mediocre pitcher have such an easy time with a major league lineup”…. really how about every game we’ve played this year against a ” mediocre” pitcher… these Phillies suck… they have no heart they don’t hustle… there a joke… blaming amaro isn’t the answer he might make questionable moves but at least he tries to put a team together that can win… the team doesn’t execute… Charlie Manuel needs to go… Howard and Rollins need to be dropped between 6th to 8th… get rid of delmon… call up a minor leaguer and let him play over delmon… send Galvis to the minors… play Hernandez at second, quit messing with revere let him play where he wants in center… find a different pitching coach… start changing coaches and get rid of delmon let it be known that everyone on the roster is available take the comfort level away from everyone and see what they do if they perform good if not bring in the bulldozers and level everything start back at zero…

    • schmenkman

      June 12, 2013 at 10:17 am

      I don’t think “comfort” is the issue. They’re far from comfortable. In fact they’re pressing.

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 11:16 am

        They’re not pressing they just suck

      • Lefty

        June 12, 2013 at 11:45 am

        hogey’s role, that made me laugh. I agree with Schmenkman on this, but it still was funny.

        “They’re not pressing they just suck” ! good stuff.

        Hey we have to laugh, otherwise this season could have the opposite effect.

    • Alex Lee

      June 12, 2013 at 11:23 am

      what i meant was that Walters is particularly mediocre. i agree with what you’re saying, but at least the other guys threw 90. last night was pathetic

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 11:52 am

        Every night has been pathetic, they put together a real good five game stretch, downtown Brown was ridiculously hot, but there just not performing they need a shake up but nothing will happen… Charlie plans to ride out the storm… good idea..

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 11:58 am

        There have been several pitchers this season that I thought we would steamroll that this lineup has made look like cy young.. it’s ridiculous things have to change

      • schmenkman

        June 12, 2013 at 12:06 pm

        There’s no denying the offense has stunk, but it’s also my impression that some of the “mediocre” pitchers they’ve faced are having pretty good seasons. In a similar vein, Cloyd has 4 quality starts — I wonder what fans of the D-backs and Brewers think about that?

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 12:12 pm

        Well the d back fans probably thought that the sun shines on a dog’s ass every now and then… and the brewers smoked us this year, so one loss probably didn’t phase them after they took the last three in a row

    • Ryne Duren

      June 12, 2013 at 12:21 pm

      I do hogey. It was the last time they faced a nobody pitcher! If you noticed when we played the red sox they scrapped their two best pitchers and sent nobodies against us. And what was the result? As far as the rest of you comment I don’t have the answers. I’m tired of speculating on exactly who should go or be moved around cause it doesn’t matter where they hit in the lineup, cause you get the same result “no hits” I’m in agreement with a lot of what you say.

      • therookie300

        June 12, 2013 at 2:07 pm

        I think what the Red Sox did with their starting pitching shows how nobody in this league is worried about this offense at all.

    • George

      June 12, 2013 at 1:57 pm

      You seem to be contradicting yourself, Hokey. First you blame Manuel for the team’s performance, and say Amaro at least is trying to put a team on the field that can win. But then you start mentionaing moves that are Amaro’s responsibility, not Charlie’s. Manuel isn’t the one in charge of dumping D.Young or optioning Galvis or letting teams know that everyone is available. All those things are Amaro’s job, and he clearly isn’t doing any of them.

      • George

        June 12, 2013 at 2:01 pm

        I hit “k” instead of “g.” Not good.

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 2:25 pm

        You’re right George I forget the general manager and manager don’t ever convene over the moves of players… Ruben just calls them up sends them around brings guys in send others out and says here Charlie deal with it… that’s right I forgot… besides I didn’t say that was Charlies responsibilities, I said Charlie needed to go, and delmon needs to go and they should option Galvis back to the minors…. these are my suggestions of where I would start if I was in charge, I didn’t say Charlie needs to do this….

      • George

        June 12, 2013 at 6:05 pm

        Any intelligent person doesn’t resort to sarcasm when someone points something out to him.

        And despite what you might think, It’s still Amaro who is making the final decisions. Manuel might very well be telling him to forget certain players, telling him to farm someone out, or dump someone, but who can say if Ruben listens to Charlie opr an entire army of high paid scouts?

        I think too that you are misinterpreting the meaning of your own comment. You said, and I quote “blaming amaro isn’t the answer.” If he’s not to blame, about the only other person you could blame would be Manuel, who you proceed to rip as though he is the one who’s made all the bad roster choices.

        The team doesn’t execute because they’re a bunch of lousy players. Manuel certainly can’t make people hit, pitch, or catch the ball. He certainly can’t make good decisions when his choices are all playing like eighty year olds. Motivation might work if he had a team to motivate, but he has garbage men who are probably all playing over their heads now.

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 8:19 pm

        yup you’re right George I’m not intelligent enough to interpret what I said, yeah that’s true,I have no idea what that means, however anyone else who commented under me got my point except you and no matter how many times I try to explain it to you I just don’t think it will sink in… besides George I thought you were done with me the other day what happened.. you thought you could show me up, but you couldn’t, oh ok…

    • Andrew from Waldorf

      June 12, 2013 at 2:24 pm

      I agree with almost eveyrthing you have to say.

      Except it is Rubens fault.

      How can a dumbass on a blog like me beg for 4 years to move some of the fossils and the DA (dumbass) GM just hoards all the fossils then just brings more in.

      They (he) also handled Dominic Brown in an absolutely horrible way. They got lucky though.

      He gets lucky a lot. He inherited a top farm system. A World series roster and the best salary situation in a sport with no cap.

      It didn’t take a lot to at least tread a little water. As George stated earlier in this thread. He did get Halladay and Lee. Both of whom basically fell in his lap.

      If he was even a poor GM the Phillies would be contending this year.
      He is a horrible one so they will lose 85 games.

      He is 100% responsible for the mess.
      Feel bad for Charlie. Hes still managing like its 2006 and the GM keeps signing (re-signing) and giving him players who were actually good in 2006.

      Making him look bad.

      Both need to go before there is a shot at winning anything meaningful in the playoffs.

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm

        You’re right to an extent.. I still question why we traded Lee away in 2010 after we got halladay, he said to reload the farm system but then he traded more players to get oswalt… I wonder if they would have done better that year with Lee… oswalt was good for us down the stretch I know that but I still wonder…

      • schmenkman

        June 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm

        I think he was told by ownership he could have one but not both. Oswalt wasn’t “good” down the stretch, he was lights out, and in any case they made the postseason. The only one of Oswalt’s starts that they lost in the playoffs was 3-2 (Oswalt gave up 2 runs, 1 earned, in 6 innings), so there’s a chance but maybe a slim one that Lee would have won that game.

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm

        Lol value point and good memory man

      • hk

        June 12, 2013 at 6:59 pm


        You might be right that management told him he can only have Halladay if he trades Lee. However, even if that’s the case, you can’t credit him with a great trade for Halladay without blaming him for a horrible trade with Lee going to Seattle. In fact, I think of it as one, eight player, three team trade that was basically a wash for the Phillies.

      • c. schreiber

        June 12, 2013 at 8:02 pm

        “Playoffs, playoffs” What are you smoking Andrew??

  6. Dave

    June 12, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Yes, the bottom line is that relievers generally just suck. They aren’t good enough to be starters, and they don’t have the stuff or the mental toughness to be a closer. If they were a good pitcher, they wouldn’t be relieving. It is extremely frustrating when these guys can’t even pitch one frickin’ innning or in many cases in today’s game…one batter. Most of these guys should be pumping gas or working at Wawa.

  7. Ken Bland

    June 12, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Unfortunately, form held true for the Twins last night. They are an incredible 18-0 in games in which they have outhit the opposition. That makes them a distasteful 10-33 in games in which they’ve been outhit, or broke even. That a;; belongs in Ripley’s Believe It or Not. How do you go 70 games deep into a season and not get 1 stinking win when the opposition outhits you.
    And it was LAST year when they decided they needed pitching.

    Now tonight, the good news is that streak could well continue. Tyler Cloyd faces the Twins. Also tonight, there’s a good chance that streak could well continue. Mike Pelfrey is pitching.
    Unfortunately, destiny continues to rule with its ugly hand as Ryan Howard remains physically, if not mentally on appointment to drag Ruben’s recent quote of “I expect him to get hot any time now” into oblivion. The decreasing Piece slammed 2 hits last night, prolonging the agony, and to Pelfrey, Howard is a first ballot unanimous Hall guy. One of the next 2 games is an absolute must for the Phils. They could get absolutely thrashed V The Rox. But they could have gotten thrashed squared when they went out to SF and won 3 of 4. Lee and Hamels are not throwing in that series, which the way the year’s gone isn’t necessarily bad thing. Unless 2-12 excites you.

  8. Ken Bland

    June 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Not that media coverage of the Phils new TV contract was scheduled to be publicly aired, but not even so much with the W-L record, but more the essential boredom of the past 2 Phillie seasons, you have to wonder how the contract negotiations are going that at one time was a practical certainty to provide the team with a financial windfall of sorts. I’ve not seen anything on the club’s local ratings this season TV wise, WPHT had a very medicore April, but that didn’t sort out to Phillie air time. Safe to say it didn’t help, but radio and TV are birds of a separate feather. We’re at a point where whoever’s handling the negotiation for the Phils, it’s logically possible to have a hard time imaging ANY TV executive keeping a straight face as they gaze across at a Phillie front office personality. Maybe they hang with the same clique, which could be a saving grace. It’s still a viable product, and worth good rights fees, but you can’t help but wonder how much less the product will go for under the year plus trend of very average baseball with a very hazy picture of near term competitiveness on the horizon.

  9. Dave

    June 12, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    The gameday beer for the rest of the season should be Piels. Same quality as our Phillies team. Come the trade deadline they need to unload the Rollins, Utley, Howard, Ruiz combo. It’s seriously time to move on. They got us a championship. Now let’s eat some salary, get whatever you can back in prospects and start fresh. They are not healthy and not productive. Once they do that, maybe they will be exciting to watch again. As it is now, I can only watch a couple innings before I change the channel or fall asleep.

    • George

      June 12, 2013 at 2:14 pm

      The Phils have some young players, too. Have D.Young, Revere, or any one else except maybe Brown been more exciting than those veterans?

      • Dave

        June 12, 2013 at 4:12 pm

        But those guys can’t stay healthy. I love Utley, but are you going to keep trotting him out there for 50 – 75 games a year? Howard is hurt again and trying to play through it. As a result he has been dreadful at the plate. Rollins had a couple good years, but his approach hasn’t changed which shows me he’s learned nothing about hitting since he’s been in the major leagues. Ruiz is like Utley. He’s productive when he’s healthy, but when is he healthy? Revere is young and I’m willing to give him some more rope to show me he can hit line drives. Delmon Young stinks. Galvis has shown flashes of potential. I haven’t seen Hernandez enough. Not sure what you do at catcher. It’s a thin position and no one wants to play it.

      • schmenkman

        June 12, 2013 at 4:32 pm

        Utley generates more production or value playing half the year than any other current option does playing the full year.

        If you don’t like Rollins, fine, but again, there aren’t many shortstops that are better overall, let alone shortstops that are available.

        I don’t get the point about catcher being a thin position, but otherwise agree on the rest.

      • hogey's role

        June 12, 2013 at 4:45 pm

        Yeah we have some decent catchers in the system right now.. Tommy Joseph most notable should be ready by next year hopefully… Utley does bring a ton of value when he’s healthy I wish he could just stay healthy, he’s hands down my favorite… I just don’t see a way out of the Howard contract… Rollins is still a very good defender, his bat isn’t great right now, Ruiz is a big part of the team but in catchers terms he’s getting old now…

      • George

        June 12, 2013 at 5:49 pm


        Utley may be better than others even in half a season, but in those games he doesn’t play, the position is usually played by someone much worse, maybe replacement value or a tiny bit better or worse. I think that has to be figured into the equation. Even if Utley is worth 3 wins when he’s on the field, and that translates to 6 over a full season, it’s not really going to be 6 if his substitutes aren’t worth that other 3.

      • schmenkman

        June 12, 2013 at 6:22 pm

        I meant the 3 wins is more than any other current option will give you over a full season.

      • Lefty

        June 12, 2013 at 6:45 pm

        George makes a good point. Is there a simple way to get the WAR by position for the year so far? Specifically for second base? I mean besides getting down and dirty and trying to figure out Galvis WAR – but only when playing second base, same with Fransden and Hernandez?

        With Utley out, it sure seems like they lose whatever production he supplies when he’s healthy. This oblique thing is a real shame, he was running really well, and playing very well.

      • schmenkman

        June 12, 2013 at 7:33 pm

        Exactly – you have to look at the total. So if Utley gives you 3 in half a season, and his fillins give you even 1 while he’s out, that’s 4 total, and that’s very tough to beat.

      • Lefty

        June 12, 2013 at 7:42 pm

        Yes but are we sure they are not contributing negative numbers? Freddy is a 0 so far according to fangraphs, but isn’t it possible he could be below that when playing second base? I’m just wondering if cumulatively, they bring Utley’s numbers down.

  10. Dave

    June 12, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    And what’s going on with Hamels? All of a sudden he’s a 6 inning pitcher. Is it just me or did he appear to be a better pitcher when he only had a fastball and a changeup? He’s added pitches to his arsenal, but yet his pitch count is skyrocketing due to all the foul balls. The approach to Hamels is…foul off the close pitches until you get one you can drive. He doesn’t have a put away pitch anymore. I’m so frustrated with this team right now.

    • rellis

      June 12, 2013 at 5:04 pm

      To be fair, some teams have been patient with Hamels and he has been unable to put them away but a lot of the games where he has gone “only 6” as you put it, is because he is lifted for a pinch hitter as soon as someone gets on base. I recall a game a few starts ago where he was lifted after 6 and had 10 Ks going but the team scored 0 offense and was actually trying to get him a win. They failed, of course.

      I am guessing that most of this fan base feels it was a mistake to re-sign Cole Hamels based on his bizarre season. It seemed like a good idea at the time and I would say that there are still teams out there that would like to have a Cole Hamels on the roster.

  11. Ken Bland

    June 12, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Well, there might be no joy in Mudville, but Phoenixville and surrounding points might be fired up before an all-time Phillie lineup takes to the Target Field tonight.

    The rudderless Braves are now 2 series sweeps away from drooping to the .500 mark. .500 and the Phillies go together like Ballantine and baseball since the Phils have been chasing it longer than Lasorda’s wife likes to shop. Chasing might not mean much, though. I’ve been chasing Jennifer Anniston for 25 years. Results are good only in my sleep.

    Course there’s a small obstacle in the way. The San Diego Padres are now ahead of the Phils in the wildcard race. There’s a dose of reality in every story.

  12. Ken Bland

    June 12, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    I sear, Gene Mauch is still alive. Gene Mauch is still managing the Phillies. Pre game tonight, patience and poise samples from the Phils skipper, sadly, sarcastically summed on a valid point by a reasonably questioning reporter..

    Asked if Manuel could hit somebody else fourth, Manuel said, “What the (heck) are you getting at? Who’s going to hit there? Let me ask you a question. Let me turn that around some. Write what you want to write.”

    Well, how about Domonic Brown?

    “I could put anybody in there, OK?” Manuel said. “I’ll do the managing. Whoever hits there, hits there.”

    • Lefty

      June 12, 2013 at 7:22 pm

      Testiness usually comes right before management endorses the manager, and then, well you know what happens right after that.

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