Replacing Dubee Could Help the Phils – Phillies Nation

Replacing Dubee Could Help the Phils

Rich+Dubee+Philadelphia+Phillies+Photo+Day+WQYnievRTD9lThursday night, former Phillies pitcher Scott Mathieson and current Phillies writer Mandy Housenick had a very interesting exchange on Twitter. Mathieson suggested that bullpen coach Rod Nichols take over Rich Dubee’s job as pitching coach, and Housenick added that Ryan Madson and Brett Myers had similar opinions on Nichols. Earlier this season, MLB Network’s Mitch Williams also suggested that Dubee get replaced. Roy Halladay, among others, defended Dubee.

But maybe Mathieson and Williams are on to something. Dubee has been in the Phillies organization for 12 years, and nine with the major league team. It could be time to replace him, as Williams said, if only to get a new voice in the ears of the Phils’ pitchers. The starters are doing exceptionally well, and the emergence of Kyle Kendrick as a solid part of the rotation is outstanding, considering where he came from.

But the bullpen is another story. It ranks last in the NL in ERA (4.58) and walk rate. Many young arms have struggled lately–Phillippe Aumont, Michael Stutes (possibly due to injury), and Justin De Fratus come to mind. Maybe Dubee just isn’t reaching the young guys like he wants to. And if (Rod) Nichols is beloved as much as Mathieson suggested, replacing Dubee with him seems like a no-brainer. The younger arms–the ones that need coaching the most–would have a new coach and a chance at a fresh start. The benefits would be great.

What would the cons be? In my eyes–nothing. Charlie Manuel‘s contract is up at the end of the year, and I think that, barring something unexpected, he won’t be re-signed by the club. Manuel and Dubee are good friends, and it would be hard to imagine Manuel leaving without Dubee. I think it would be the right move to let go of most, if not all of Manuel’s coaching staff at the end of the year.

I’m not saying that the Phillies should do a mid-season coaching move like they did with Milt Thompson. There is no need for a “shock” move to light a fire under the players with a playoff berth unlikely. But a change could be what benefits the Phillies most in the coming years, and the end of this season is the perfect time to do it.



  1. Hawks Coach

    July 12, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    scott mathieson isnt even a has been. hes a never was

    • Vic

      July 14, 2013 at 11:18 pm

      Fire amaro , he over paid players, not give oportunity to young talent, this team is mediocre for his old players we got 4 wins for hamels ,2 halladay and 6 last year for lee this is for 120 millions salary in 2 years between this howar and utley made 50 millions and we got 260,15, 70 rbi and average between both , gm should trade papelbone and lee as long as they have value and live utley and halladay go

      • Vic

        July 14, 2013 at 11:25 pm

        To ruben amaro : Who made phillies win now brown ,ruff, kendrick, petibone,revere not howard utley , rollins or hamels. We nead to give young talented oportunity and think in futue put ashley to replace utley on second and next year live franco at third. Trade lee to baltimore for bauer a young talented pitcher and condition the orioles to take howard so you can clean salary cap ruff is doing beter plus fielding for min salary not 25 millions

  2. George

    July 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    I’d file this whole thing under “tempest in a teapot.” Mitch was griped because Dubee objected to his butting in, something which aforesaid Mitch was rightfully called out for. He’s not the coach.

    Mathieson has done what since he left a team which very graciously let him pursue a different opportunity?

    I think I’d be more inclined to listen to those who haven’t complained than to put faith anything said by a person who was never coached by Dubee, and another who had arm issues the entire time he was under Dubee and has done very little since. The positive opinions are just as numerous and are from more credible sources.

    Maybe Madson and Myers like Nichols (heck, maybe even Halladay and Kendrick do). But I don’t see any opinion from those two concerning Dubee. Maybe Madson and Myers thought he’s pretty decent, too.

    As far as replacing Dubee, I don’t think blame for the pen can be placed solely on him. The guys he has are inexperienced and still learning. The minor league coaches also have a bit to do with their development, and it’s quite possible those relievers are just lousy.

    And sticking Nichols in is NOT a no-brainer. If Manuel leaves, his coaches will likely be replaced by a new manager, and Nichols, in case no one noticed, is one of those coaches.

    • Jonathan

      July 12, 2013 at 11:03 pm

      All fair points. Althought the “no brainier” comment was conditional on what Mathieson said, which as you pointed out, could be a jaded opinion.

  3. bacardipr

    July 12, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    I think its time for a change as well. Can we get Moyer as the pitching coach?

    • M3rk1n

      July 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm

      matheison’s put up some really good numbers in japan the last 2 years, wonder if he could help the Philz? He’s only 29…

  4. Double Trouble Del

    July 12, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    Perhaps Sandberg could assume the pitching coaches duties on an interim basis.

  5. betasigmadeltashag

    July 13, 2013 at 12:55 am

    First off this team is not out of playoff contention. 2nd there have been some pitchers that pitched well while in Philly and have not done much since leaving JA Happ and Vance woolly to name a few, not to mention what he has done with KK and Cole is having an off but he has brought those 2 up through the system.
    But I do agree that when Charlie goes Dubie goes. But I do think Samual and at least one of the hitting coaches probably Joyner stay especially if they hand the reigns over to Sandburg after they win the World Series this year
    Remember the Cardnails had the worst bull pen in baseball before the playoffs in 2011

  6. EricL

    July 13, 2013 at 10:22 am

    I don’t understand, if the bullpen is bad, wouldn’t you assume the bullpen coach is responsible for those guys? So, you’d replace Dubee with the guy from the part of the team that is doing poorly?

    I think Dubee is a smug tool who adheres to “old school” baseball too much (remember how he said Ryan Madson didn’t have a “closer’s mentality” until Ryan Madson went out and became a dominant closer since Brad Lidge turned into a roiling tire fire?), and it’s been reported that he handles most of the in-game pitching changes (or at least Manuel defers to him most of the time), which I think could use a lot improvement, but I won’t say that Dubee hasn’t been successful in squeezing performance from whence there is little in the way of actual talent.

    Happ, Worley, Cloyd, Pettibone, are all guys who were projected to be AAAA fill-in type players who came to the majors and had success far beyond what anyone thought them capable of. That’s got to count for something. Halladay also credits Dubee with refining his changeup to the point where it became a dominant pitch and in 2011, at the age of 34, Halladay struck out the highest percentage of batters (23.6% K-rate) in his career.

    I’m not a fan of Rich Dubee, and it’s admittedly hard to gauge who is responsible for what from afar, but I think in the absence of other evidence it’s hard to argue against the track record of success this team’s starters have shown.

    • Jonathan Nisula

      July 13, 2013 at 1:22 pm

      As I said above, I wasn’t really suggesting any particular successor to Dubee. I was just showing what Mathieson said

  7. Larry

    July 14, 2013 at 7:20 am

    Well fired Manuel and Dubee. Change 3rd baseman for better Defence.Have Ryan to be Manager and play Ruff at First Baseman all the time he better defence on the field.Also get better Catcher who can hit with men on base.I think that why the club are mix up.Need better line up.Charlie mix up those line up.Thank You Larry.

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