As Expected, Werth Declines Arbitration – Phillies Nation

As Expected, Werth Declines Arbitration

Jayson Werth officially did what everyone unofficially thought he would do. Werth declined the Phillies arbitration offer just before midnight last night and will head into free agency looking to cash in.

The prized 31-year old rightfielder joins some names like Adam Dunn, Carl Crawford, Cliff Lee, Adrian Beltre, and others who have declined arbitration from their respective clubs in order to test the open market. Werth certainly will be one of the hotter names, as you know, with teams like Boston, Detroit, and the Phillies all linked to him.

Werth said last week that he will allow this process to breathe a little and likely won’t make a decision on a team in the short-term.

A few guys who declined arbitration yesterday that may entice the Phillies are relievers Scott Downs (Blue Jays), Randy Choate and Chad Qualls (Rays), and Pedro Feliciano (Mets).



  1. Bart Shart

    December 1, 2010 at 10:22 am

    It will be interesting to see what Werth is offered in his free agency and by whom……

  2. Me

    December 1, 2010 at 10:32 am

    why did he wait so last minute… he couldnt have actually been considering accepting

  3. Geoff

    December 1, 2010 at 10:44 am

    For the money that this guy wants, I hope he walks. The last two or three years of his desired 6 year deal will become a bad cotnract. Happens all the time.

  4. Chuck

    December 1, 2010 at 11:07 am

    So what if he waited til the last minute. It’s all just posturing. We’ll know soon enough what he is offered and what he accepts. Until he makes a decision I will continue to hold out hope that he and the Phillies can come to an agreement.


    December 1, 2010 at 11:37 am


  6. George

    December 1, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Six years is not unreasonable given some of the other contracts that have been handed out the past few years. It’s also probably just a starting point and he may settle for less. As for the money he wants, I don’t think any rumored dollar amounts are believable and even if they are, they too are merely starting points.

    We’ll know only when he signs somewhere, but I don’t expect that to be very soon.

  7. George

    December 1, 2010 at 11:48 am

    One other note: Amaro must still think there’s a chance Werth will re-sign. If he didn’t think so, I’d think he’d be pursuing corner outfielders more aggressively.

  8. MikeB.

    December 1, 2010 at 11:53 am

    I have to agree with Geoff on this one. I would not give Werth any more than a four year deal and especially not at the amount he is asking for.

  9. Geoff

    December 1, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    6 Years is absolutely unreasonable for a 31 year old power guy for any NL team. It ONLY makes sense for an AL team to sign him, and hes mostly only been linked with AL teams because when he cant move around anymore hes useless in the field. Guys like Werth crash hard when they do crash. We should forget about him and move on. I’m sick of NO Phillies news, this sucks. Ruben needs to get aggressive.

  10. Dave

    December 1, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I’ve seen more activity in a nursing home during Bingo hour. What are the Phillies doing?

  11. Chuck

    December 1, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something just for the sake of doing something. And maybe….just maybe….this is the calm before the storm. Maybe….just maybe… something BIG is gonna happen.

    Relax, dudes. All will be good.

  12. brooks

    December 1, 2010 at 1:43 pm


  13. Bruce

    December 1, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    “..Greed, for lack of a better word, is good”..says Gordon Gekko. Ahh..h yes, dollar signs are dancing in Werth’s head. Thoughts of his inflated self worth prevails over common sense and no doubt the usual line would be…”I need to support my family (and lifestyle)”. ◄ chuckles

  14. Chuck

    December 1, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Jayson Werth has earned the right to get whatever he can from what will be his one chance at a big contract. He would be silly and stupid not to and anyone on here that says that they, too, aren’t driven by the dollar….well, then they’re liars.

  15. The Dipsy

    December 1, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Do we have a source on this “six year” demand. Other than Jim Salsbury?

    The Dipsy

  16. Chuck

    December 1, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Salisbury, Maryland Steak seems like a nice enough fellow, but I do indeed question his legitimacy at times (and by legitimate I’m not referring to the marital status of his parents when he was conceived.)

  17. Bruce

    December 1, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    There are speculations that certain clubs may offer Werth a contract in the neighborhood of 4 years and $80 million. Phillies reported offer is 3 years and $55 million. That’s averages to $18 million+ per year compare to $7.5 million last season. By offering arbitration which Werth declined, the Phillies will receive two compensatory draft picks if he signs elsewhere.

    Goodbye Werth (he with the .139 BA for RISP/2 outs) ..welcome Dom Brown.

  18. Chuck

    December 1, 2010 at 4:07 pm

  19. The Dipsy

    December 1, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Chuck – I didn’t see that in the link. Anyway. I would be glad to give him 7 years. 7y55m. He can have as many years as he wants just as long as he understands that his per year goes down. How about 100y55m?

    The Dipsy

  20. Chuck

    December 1, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Dipsy, this guy Silverman form the Boston Herald suggests that Carl Crawford is looking for an 8 year deal and Jayson a 6 year deal.

    This what I think. I think Jayson and Boras probably realize that 4 years guaranteed is about the max they can get. The Phillies offered 3 with an option, right? So just increase it to 4/70 with an option and buyout for the 5th year. Jayson would be nuts not to take that….and the Phillies wouldn’t be breaking the bank in the process.

  21. Geoff

    December 1, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    I don’t think hes even worth that. I would not resign him, unless somehow we were in the AL with a DH slot.

    Heck, I would even deal Matthew Rizzotti, Domonic Brown, Vance Worley, and two other lesser prospects for Justin Upton if he can pass a physical.

  22. George

    December 1, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Yes, trade ALL the decent prospects for an outfielder who’s only advantage over Werth is that he’s younger, but also has the disadvantage of having a bum labrum.

    Werth is not the usual “power hitter” who declines at an early age, because he happens to have some athleticism to go along with the power. AL teams are the ones making the most noise because they happen to be the ones who need him the most, not because they’re thinking “Well, at least he’ll still be able to DH when he’s 35.”

  23. George

    December 1, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    “…this guy Silverman form the Boston Herald suggests that Carl Crawford is looking for an 8 year deal and Jayson a 6 year deal.”

    Is that even a real rumor, or just a bunch of hooey designed to gain readers?

  24. Chuck

    December 1, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    George, I didn’t make up the article that Silverman wrote. It was in the Boston Herald. What are his sources?? I have no idea. But does it really surprise you that Werth is starting with an asking price of 6 years? I was saying that a year ago.

    Now…I don’t think he’ll get that. But I DO think that four guaranteed with an option/buyout year is something that could happen.

  25. George

    December 1, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    My point was that a “suggestion” by a writer is not even a real rumor, it’s simply conjecture; the same thing you or I might do based on what we might only feel or extrapolate or guess and not on any actual facts. He may not even have any sources. In no way was I indication that YOU had made up the story.

    And no, it wouldn’t surprise me if Werth is asking for six years. I just think those claims should be based on real information from real sources, and not on some writer’s “suggestion.”

  26. The Dipsy

    December 1, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    I mean, I know Jayson’s a talent. I know he’s very important to the Phils lineup. I know the free agent pickings are sparse as far as OFs but, dammit, Jayson Werth is NOT worth 17m a year. Not even close. Its insane if you stop and think about it for a moment. Bay, Holliday, Drew, etc. None of those dopes are worth even close to what they are all being paid YET people hold them up as the standard bearers for what the market is. WRONG! In my view, If you are getting paid 15m you better be a special player and Jayson is not that. Think about taking two 5m players (and you can get two pretty good players at 5m apiece) and platooning them and you would probably get better production (if they’re the right two players) than Werth and at 2/3 the price, which is further discounted because you are paying for two roster spots and not one. These obscene numbers about what Werth, Crawford, blah, could command have been tossed around for so long that its become generally accepted that its what their actually what they’re worth. That the amount these guts should sign for has almost become a self fulfilling prophecy, which is the atmosphere that a good agent seeks to create. Why don’t we all drink some hot coffee and come to our senses? I’m not a child and I know overpaying is necessary, but getting fleeced is not. 4y60m. Take it or leave it. And I would love to see someone put it up Boras’ kiester (like we did with J.D. Drew). What a career destruction that was. The guy actually took a year off to play in a league with girls…literally. No offense, Kate. You ladies are soft and cuddly but you can’t hit fastballs very well.

    The Dipsy

  27. Ted Bell

    December 1, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    I agree, it’s better to let another team give out the bad contract this time. The most I’d go would be three years and an option. Some team out there will surely overpay him in years and dollars – but it shouldn’t be the Phillies. Despite what some people think, history shows that a player’s skills rapidly decline after 35. In the past 20 years we’ve seen some anomalies due to PEDs – but hopefully that era is over. Jayson is a good player, but his splits this year suggest he could be a product of CBP. The guy had 34 RBIs away from home and he’s still about to cash in big time.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  28. Phan in the outfield

    December 1, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Obscene? You’re kidding, right. Okay, everyone calm down. If we’re going to talk ‘obscene’ then let’s begin with the Howard deal please. I think we’re getting ahead of ourselves claiming any Werth deal discussed in the newspapers would be obscene. There’s no foundation in fact for the alleged numbers; speculation at best.

    Chuck’s right; who cares what Werth asks for. He’s earned it at this point in his career. Any of us in his place would do the same. It’s not as if he’s stealing from a poor blind match-girl in the street. They’re ball-club owners. Most of their incomes dwarf that of several countries.

    George is right. Even if thse numbers are close to what’s really being discussed, they’re just a point from which each side starts to argue. Posturing. Let them go at it. No offense Dipsy, but you guys don’t seem to understand the bargaining process very well.

    If Werth is such an UNspecial player, it makes me wonder how he managed to set Phillies & NL records & why the Phillies get so much in return if he signs w/another team.

    Great, well they should be able to replace him easily then. But so far they haven’t been able to come up with anyone. In any case, it won’t be Domonic Brown w/his .222 avg & iffy judgement & throwing from last season, or his .053 avg in winter ball. And it won’t be Ben Francisco who cost us 2 runs on a misplayed ball in LF in the 4th game of the NLCS either.

  29. The Dipsy

    December 1, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Phan. I am crystal clear on the bargaining process, believe me. Jayson Werth has put in two good years. Has never hit .300 nor knocked in 100 runs. I like Werth, but as The Smiths’ say “you just haven’t earned it yet, baby”. In America, an employee is entitled to as much as he can get out of an employer, whether he is intrinsically worth it or not. Milk him dry, I say. What Phillies and NL records has he set by the way? I honestly don’t know. God bless Jayson Werth and good luck to him and may he get so much money that he could never possibly hope to spend it all. All it takes is one team to go insane and you’ve got yourself a deal as we have seen over and over and over again. I just don’t wan’t that team to be the Phils.

    Ryan Howard averages 50 hrs and 140 RBI a year (approx). Is he overpaid? Sure. But as I have said before, the only thing worse than paying Howard would have been to let him go. The PR backlash would have been devastating. It was a no win situation. Jayson Werth is NOT Ryan Howard. He’s just not worth anything even CLOSE to the money he wants. I know what posturing is and I know two parties meet in middle but Jayson isn’t even worth what the middle would be.

    The Dipsy

  30. Chuck

    December 1, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    4/70 with a fifth year as a club option/buyout. MORE than fair. Jayson gets a nice payday and the Phils, while “overpaying”, won’t have the bank broken over it.

  31. Lefty

    December 1, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    IMO – Worth (not Jayson) can only be measured in one way. There is no grey area here, you’re worth whatever you can get someone to pay you. You can opine that Jayson is not worth 15,17,18 m whatever- but if someone pays it, he is.

    I’m with Chuck on this one, it’s JW’s last chance, he should get whatever he can if these idiots continue to pay it. It won’t cost me a cent one way or the other. (I only go to games when a business or other person pays)

    If you let a guy go for more than you think he’s worth, and he does well, you made a bad decision. If you let a guy go and he tanks, you made a good decision. The risk is inherent. It’s the same as when you keep a guy, pay him well, and he doesn’t perform- you blew it. If he does well, you’re a genius.

    I think RAJ will let Jayson walk without much fight, and I think that risk assesment was made a long time ago. Personally I like the guy and would be happy if he remains a part of our team, but I don’t see it happening.

  32. betasigmashag

    December 1, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    I must be slightly insane today, because I 100% agree with Dipsy on this one. I do not think some ones worth is whatever somebody will pay him, it is that teams perception of what he is worth, but does not make it right.
    Jayson is not a a 20 million dollar baseball player period, if he gets it good for him. And 6 years, really, he is going to be worth 18 million when he is 37, not likely. I think the 3 years 55 million, is too much, but a good offer. If he can not set his family up for life with that contract he needs some help. And he will only be 34, so this is not his last contract, even at 35 if he keeps the same numbers he has for the last 2 years he could get another 3 years at 10-14 million per.
    And I can say I am not driven by money if I was I would still be in sales living in the city making 3x what I make now, but I choose to live in Vermont make less money and be happy with what I am doing. Out of college I made more money but my job sucked living in a crowded suburb of Philly, taking 3 hours to go 20 miles to get to where I needed to go to make the money sucked. So now I live in Vermont, can get 20 miles in 25 minutes and love what I do and make less money. I know I am different, but if I could play the game like Jayson and was offered 55 million for 3 years and live in a city that loves me and I like on a team that has a chance to win every year. I take it. Now if he does not like living in Philly, or has a problem with the team than fine go good luck. I like Jayson and hope he will find a way to stay in Philly, but to pay him any more then what they offered would handcuff this team. And all you saying the FO and RAJ are doing nothing, have a little faith, they brought in Lee, Halliday, Oswalt, Poly, and some other role players that did a real good job last year, oh, yea they picked up Jose also. Have they made some mistakes, Baez, holding on to Dobbs maybe, trusting JC too much maybe, but when they need to make a deal they have had some pretty good deals, and pick ups, so lets wait until the dominos start to fall before we crush them for not doing anything

  33. Lefty

    December 1, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    BTW- I didn’t mean to sound like the fans who pay are dumb, I love our fans. I meant the owners who pay outrageous salaries are idiots. I shouldn’t have put the two in the same paragraph. I only don’t pay because I don’t have to. I would if I had to.

  34. The Dipsy

    December 1, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    And I think the greatest point, the most important point of all, is that we as fans should only care about what a player makes in the context of how it affect the team in terms of making other moves going forward. When you overpay a guy, it takes money away from a pot the team has to work from. Its a finite number. If the Philadelphia Phillies were a bottomless pit of money and no amount of overpaying would ever keep them from making whatever move they wanted to, I would say “pay them all whatever they want, I could care less”. Honestly, is it a personal affront to me that Jayson Werth wants X amount for X years? No. It is only because that player would be taking an inordinately large % of the Phillies resource pool that I would be angry because it is taking money that the Phils may/will need for other areas. Thats why I was pissed that Jamie and Raul and Eaton and Jenkins, etc were on this team. They were not giving the team value for the money they were being paid. Sometimes I blame the FO, sometimes the player. Save for the Yankees, baseball teams have capped resources and they must get the most talent for the buck. Thats the name of the game. And that is why, when a player asks for what I think is too much in terms of how it will affect the Phillies going forward, how it will keep them from getting that extra hitter, that arm at the all star break, etc. I.E. resources we need to win the World Series, it makes me see red (no pun intended). And that is why we can take a pass on Jayson Werth.

    The Dipsy

  35. jonnyboy

    December 1, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    werth’s not coming back. time to bring in manny for 6 mil a yr plus incentives.

  36. psujoe

    December 1, 2010 at 10:49 pm


    Labrum aside(since I’m no medical expert), the biggest difference between Upton and Werth isn’t age, it’s money. Upton is under team control for 5 years, only $50 million(2011/$4.25, 2012/$6.75, 2013/$9.75, 2014/$14.25, 2015/$14.50. If he’s healthy I make the edal Geoff proposed in a heartbeat. Career OPS over .910 against lefties. Career sounds funny for a 23 year old.

  37. George

    December 1, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Team control or not, the talent isn’t all that much different, and Upton costs you several years of talented players who’d be paid even less than Upton. How much will Brown or Rizzotto or those others make in their first five years? Less than Upton, I’m sure, and Brown might turn out to be the better outfielder. Upton is ONE player, prospects might be FIVE players.

    Sure, it’d be nice to have Upton, but I wouldn’t pay all those prospects for him, especially since they might be replacing some aging players in the not-too-distant future.

    And I’m sorry, psujoe, you can’t just put that labrum aside.

    Werth came cheap for a few years but now will probably move on. And as I see it, Upton would only be cheap for three years, not five. $14.25 million isn’t exactly chump change, and the $14.5 mil is getting into Dipsy’s “special player” range. What’s so special about Upton?

  38. Dave

    December 2, 2010 at 10:31 am

    The owners who pay outrageous salaries are idiots, yet if they don’t sign someone of magnitude in the offseason, they hear if from the city and the fans that they didn’t sign anyone, and they aren’t going to buy any tickets this year, and this team is a disgrace, etc, etc. etc. So it really is a double edged sword, isn’t it? The reality is that ALL these guys are overpaid. The market is so ridiculous that a middle relief pitcher now commands 2-3x more than Mike Schmidt used to earn in a season. A guy has a bad year and STILL qualifies for a raise. Where else on earth is that possible??

  39. betasigmashag

    December 2, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    George the one point you are missing, is yes 14 million in 2011 would be in that special player range, but in five years will it be. And when Upton is 28 he may be a special player, yes he would have to go through a physical, before this is discussed, but if he is healthy I would easily take Upton for five years over hoping Dom Brown can be special, Upton has proven to be able to hit at the major league level and he is what 1 2 years older then Brown. If
    Brown becomes a special as we all hope he will onlly be cheap in dollars for four years.

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